Long Teng / Mondince aero frame FM126

[gribs]

I think the confusion comes from their original listing. "Carbon One-Piece-Monocoque-Construction EPS". This frame is clearly not made in one piece but is almost certainly a monocoque like practically every other carbon fibre frame.

[Sakizashi]

For bikes, isn't monocoque when the 2 triangles aren't glued together, but the whole frames comes from 1 mold? In the video, isn't it clear that the triangles are glued together?

I'd bet that people on here have on average the same understanding as me on that point, so if that's wrong, please come off your high horse and enlighten us peasants instead of smugly pointing to old ass plane pictures on wikipedia.

Monocoque is a technical term regarding the structure's design, not its construction method. It's not bicycle specific. I've tried explaining this to you over and over, and you have insisted on pushing the wrong definition for a technical design attribute. Manufacturers will call something like what you are suggesting a "single mold design" or "single mold monocoque"

Stop misusing a term that confuses people in an effort to make it look like you know something you don't. It just creates confusion about terminology, where some manufacturers claim a monocoque frame (which I think happens a lot) when it is not made in a single piece and has joints like this one. Besides there is even a bicycle example in that Wikipedia article

Edit: for everyone's benefit here is the definition Wikipedia offers for Monocoque: Monocoque (/ˈmɒnəkɒk, -koʊk/ MON-ə-ko(h)k), also called structural skin, is a structural system in which loads are supported by an object's external skin, in a manner similar to an egg shell. The word monocoque is a French term for "single shell".[1]

[Serge_K]

Monocoque is a technical term regarding the structure's design, not its construction method. It's not bicycle specific. I've tried explaining this to you over and over, and you have insisted on pushing the wrong definition for a technical design attribute. Manufacturers will call something like what you are suggesting a "single mold design" or "single mold monocoque"

Stop misusing a term that confuses people in an effort to make it look like you know something you don't. It just creates confusion about terminology, where some manufacturers claim a monocoque frame (which I think happens a lot) when it is not made in a single piece and has joints like this one. Besides there is even a bicycle example in that Wikipedia article

Edit: for everyone's benefit here is the definition Wikipedia offers for Monocoque: Monocoque (/ˈmɒnəkɒk, -koʊk/ MON-ə-ko(h)k), also called structural skin, is a structural system in which loads are supported by an object's external skin, in a manner similar to an egg shell. The word monocoque is a French term for "single shell".[1]

I must have learning disabilities, because you write more, and it still makes no sense to me.
I expect a binary outcome, for bike stuff: what is, and what isn't, a monocoque bike frame, sire, Holder of Wisdom for us plebs?

[Requiem84]

I must have learning disabilities, because you write more, and it still makes no sense to me.
I expect a binary outcome, for bike stuff: what is, and what isn't, a monocoque bike frame, sire, Holder of Wisdom for us plebs?

I think it’s pretty clear.

All frames are monocoque. That term is used incorrectly by (some) people.

What you seem to mean is ‘one piece monocoque’.

Good addition imo, I didn’t know this to be honest and there is no shame in admitting that. I’m happy that I learned something new.

Much prefer that over ‘being right’.

Anyway, I really can’t wait for the first experiences of this frame. The looks are a banger. Now hoping quality will be great too.

[gribs]

I must have learning disabilities, because you write more, and it still makes no sense to me.
I expect a binary outcome, for bike stuff: what is, and what isn't, a monocoque bike frame, sire, Holder of Wisdom for us plebs?

A monocoque bike frame is what pretty much any modern carbon frame is. A non-monocoque frame would typically be the traditional lug and tube construction. Atherton bikes are a good example using carbon tubes and titanium lugs. Gamux are another mtb example but use a solid machined metal frame.

[sOKRATEs100]

Jack Ding replied to me that they will have 56/58 size soon-ish.

Did someone got a frame yet?

[Serge_K]

A monocoque bike frame is what pretty much any modern carbon frame is. A non-monocoque frame would typically be the traditional lug and tube construction. Atherton bikes are a good example using carbon tubes and titanium lugs. Gamux are another mtb example but use a solid machined metal frame.

Ah. Is that it? I'm french, so monocoque means 1 piece, pretty literally. One piece monocoque then becomes monocoque moncoque, or one piece one piece, which sounds redundant if not retarded.
mono-coque. one-shell. If you glue 2 pieces together i dont see how it's any more 1 shell than if you weld lugs and tubes together, but i guess here we are.

And from my various discussions with chinese sellers, when the topic of monocoque comes up, it's to say that they use one mould, not 2, that the tooling costs more, that it's more premium, lalala. It is possible that they mean / imply one piece monocoque, because they speak chinese to begin with so idk how they translate the nuance, but saying a carbon frame is monocoque to mean it's made gluing 2 triangles is like saying a carbon frame is made with carbon fiber. Or that walnuts are vegan, the sun is hot, and water wet.

[Sakizashi]

Ah. Is that it? I'm french, so monocoque means 1 piece, pretty literally. One piece monocoque then becomes monocoque moncoque, or one piece one piece, which sounds redundant if not retarded.
mono-coque. one-shell. If you glue 2 pieces together i dont see how it's any more 1 shell than if you weld lugs and tubes together, but i guess here we are.

And from my various discussions with chinese sellers, when the topic of monocoque comes up, it's to say that they use one mould, not 2, that the tooling costs more, that it's more premium, lalala. It is possible that they mean / imply one piece monocoque, because they speak chinese to begin with so idk how they translate the nuance, but saying a carbon frame is monocoque to mean it's made gluing 2 triangles is like saying a carbon frame is made with carbon fiber. Or that walnuts are vegan, the sun is hot, and water wet.

I think some Chinese sellers are trying to communicate with you what the product is and work around the misunderstood terms. They are just trying to do a good job helping you understand why a product costs more. If you use the word "monocoque," they probably will just use it to get through the conversation. The language barrier is real, and there are three languages to work with here: English, Chinese, and Western engineering speak.

There are also still a few modern non-monocoque carbon road frames out there. The Enve Custom Road and the Colnago C68 are additional examples.

I normally wouldn't bother to engage with this misuse of terms, except that it's now being used to evaluate whether a frame is worth buying, rather than just describing something esoteric. Once we move that language into common discussion, ensuring that it actually means something is important. Because "monocoque" refers to how loads are supported, there is likely to be a difference in ride feel between how a monocoque and a non-monocoque frame that are otherwise visually identical. On the other side, the consequence of having a frame molded in one piece vs. 2 bonded together is likely just a tradeoff of less weight vs. lower cost as the loads are supported the same way, its just glued together slightly differently.

In other words, the real issue with this frame moving to a separate rear triangle mold is a few grams, which is probably not much to worry about for an aero frame like this.

As to the person who confusingly coined the term. IDK, he was some French guy. Just don't google "is water wet" and blame me for the result.

[BeR]

Maybe we could use monocoque monobloc.

https://haidelibikes.com/fr/blog/what-is-a-monocoque-one-piece-bicycle-frame-and-why-are-cyclists-switching-to-it/

PS : I agree with Serge because I am french too 😅.

[Sakizashi]

Maybe we could use monocoque monobloc.

https://haidelibikes.com/fr/blog/what-is-a-monocoque-one-piece-bicycle-frame-and-why-are-cyclists-switching-to-it/

PS : I agree with Serge because I am french too 😅.

A couple of companies — mostly Italian — have been using the term "true monocoque" as a marketing term to imply their use of modular molds to make custom frames in one piece. I prefer to point out that it's likely not a difference that matters to the end consumer whether a layup has many pieces or if pieces are joined, as the end product uses the same load bearing principles

[Requiem84]

Any updates on this frame?

[Serge_K]

From Jack:

Check attached pictures for this FM126 with our logo.
And we have ultra light version from 860-960g UD Matt with hardware; And super light version 960-1060g UD Matt with hardware; All screws are Titanium.

[Sakizashi]

From Jack:

Check attached pictures for this FM126 with our logo.
And we have ultra light version from 860-960g UD Matt with hardware; And super light version 960-1060g UD Matt with hardware; All screws are Titanium.

That looks really good to my eye. I have some questions about how aero it is, particularly that DT, but I do like the visual design as it looks balanced and very modern.

[Vasegaard]

IN REGARDS TO GEOMETRY.
They changed the HT angle 73 for size 56, 58 and 61 respectively to increase trail!

[casper.f]

IN REGARDS TO GEOMETRY.
They changed the HT angle 73 for size 56, 58 and 61 respectively to increase trail!

Where did you find this? on mondincecycle.com still the original.
I tought he was lying when saying "we'll look into it", props to them