Long Teng / Mondince aero frame FM126

[cyruscycles]

Yeah I think some people in the ostro Vam thread payed around 750$, or a bit more, shipped (not 100% sure). Still expensive but the inside of the frame is probably cleaner than a few OEM. (Cf oralmaster's pics)

Also, to go along with Serge's analogy, I still don't get why a bike would cost the same price as a motorbike. Those companies supports the same costs you mentioned (if not more considering a 200kg+ motorbike require a lot more materials, engineering, safety concerns, even electronics and so on). There is a price gouging, just look at the difference of price from the 105di2 at launch and now, it's drastically lower and they still prolly make margin on it (both Shimano and reseller)

True,  the peace of mind is priced, or let's put it the other way around, you get cheaper frame gambling with your life, that's why I'm more inclined buying from a reputable OEM than a company producing fakes. (Even though there are some accidents with big brands too, but that's another topic)

This why it's sad that this project didn't come (yet?) to life. Not having the budget to support the campaign or buy a frame now, but when I do I would have considered this frame

In my opinion it's not so much price gouging as it is luxary products larping as fitness tools. Bicycles are commodities with very little tangible differentiation between competitors. Like the watch industry after the quartz revolution, the big bike brands pivoted into selling high end luxary branding and craftsmanship. For the people that buy a $6000 frameset, the price is a feature. The purpose of an Sworks is to flex on other 40 year olds on the group ride. The racing competitors that the bikes market themselves as for get gifted their bikes, so they're not really the target customer at the end of the day

[Sakizashi]

The economics of a true luxury good are wild. LVMH might as well be on a different planet than Specialized.

IDK, I know we are upset that this project didnt become real (me included, though I was a watcher not a potential buyer) but lets not throw every company under the bus and they arent equal to all levels of the market.

SRAM is doing a pretty good job using common parts and driving tech down into the lower ranges and scaling it. I think most people after riding them, back to back would rather have a Rival AXS E1 bike vs. a Red D1. Which is nuts to think about there being a half generation only of difference between them. It’s very much offense as defense vs. Wheeltop (and maybe Ltwoo), but I think its working and has made market traction really difficult for those other groupset brands.

Making good, complete, products is hard and a company like Specialized puts out a good, complete customer ready product. Yes there is a cost associated with that including a large # of engineers, product teams, HR and marketing. That’s just different than what Chinese brands (e.g,. Evolve) are putting out right now: mostly frame sets and wheels. Thats also different than what the factory direct offerings are. Of course not every western brand is Specialized or Trek and not every Chinese brand is putting out a good product like Evolve apparently is. Some are disappearing because thats what happens to companies that don't serve their customers with a good product at a good price.

For example, I think that LTK did a really good job on the 266 D SL. It’s a fantastic deal for the buyer who is comfortable building their bikes, well versed in reading spec sheets, etc. But they still seem to have dropped the ball on providing a good headset and spacer solution for the customers also buying handlebars. They are only competitive with the Chinese brands for people with access to knowledge to make the frame work for them in terms of parts and compatibility. In turn those Chinese brands are also only competitive with Specialized for people who know how to spec groupsets and wheels AND install them to make a complete bike.

I’d like to think that at its best, this forum helps people cross those gaps and help people turn their factory direct frames into complete bikes that work well.

[Requiem84]

I hope $750 is the shipped cost because that is still more expensive than most open mold frames. As for why it’s less than Factor. They probably only pay $200-$300 to their factory for the knockoff because they are probably made with cheaper materials. The weights of the frame support this. The major associated cost is probably only the physical mold and painting.

Meanwhile Factor is putting like $400 of MATERIALS into the frames. I did a calculation a while back based on numbers from an interview with Factor’s founder and figured that their frames if truely sold D2C like Seka would be closer to $3500-4000 for the bare frameset which is still pretty expensive, but the factory then run really is one of the highest end in China AFAIK.

Yes. I think it qualifies. It’s probably a generation old compared to the latest and greatest like the Scott Addict RC Ultimate or the new Cervelo R5, but it’s a heck of a bike. Build it up with an FSA No 55 headset and Deda Superbox stem in the 140–160mm length paired with a bikedoc bar. Wear a good skinsuit, aero road helmet, etc.; and if you can hold that position, I would bet an average height person on a size 54 could get to sub 0.26 CDA. Compare that against a Fauxtro with a more traditional setup costing you more, being heavier, and leaving you with a 0.32 or smth CDA.

You can’t recalculate ‘actual’ costs like you did.

We’d need to have full visibility on the R&D costs, capital expenses, depreciation, transfer price mark-up etc etc.

And then there is marketing, warehousing, insurance, shipping, warranty etc etc.

It’s impossible to know.

[Sakizashi]

You can’t recalculate ‘actual’ costs like you did.

We’d need to have full visibility on the R&D costs, capital expenses, depreciation, transfer price mark-up etc etc.

And then there is marketing, warehousing, insurance, shipping, warranty etc etc.

It’s impossible to know.

I mean it’s ranged because you need assumptions. I’ve done CDD / pre-ipo diligence for my day job as well as written investment cases. I don't think it’s a crazy number. Granted those assumptions are general manufactured goods / industrial goods and not for the bike industry. Obviously its a back of the envelope type calculation so you can take it or leave it.

The basic thesis I am proposing is that complexity not fat cat margins is driving prices. The fake and replicas aren’t a good comp given how much they seem to skip and the overall lower quality. I have not really thought about it much, but it wouldn’t surprise me if on a % basis fakes / replicas make more net AND gross margin than the originals. Not to mention the factory direct open molds which are likely lower gross, but higher net margin than the branded products. It would explain why TanTan and Airwolf shifted towards fakes and away from the few original designs in their portfolio.

The corollary is that if you can manage the complexity yourself, you can get a much better deal. E.g., why the Mondinice 126 and the LTK266DSL felt / feel like such good deals for this audience.

[kungie]

I'm surprised to see Mondince has the model listed on their website. I'm inquiring, but I wonder if this was up during the campaign and they haven't taken it down, or if they put this up after ending the campaign: https://mondincecycle.com/product/2026-one-piece-monocoque-eps-t1100-carbon-fiber-aero-road-bike-frame-fm126#aa

[bichler.bua]

Just had contact with Jack, seems they will start the mold for the FM126 in size 54.
I was looking (actually backed up Indiegogo and got the money refunded) for the 61, which will be last.
Anyway, good to see progress on the first mold

[Freddy__HH]

Some news

OK. Great. We will do the mold next week for FM126 frame size 54cm.

I will keep you informed. :

[tumtm]

Will the 49 cm size be sold?

[Dark17]

Sad, I already took my money elsewhere. But I will be interested to see where this goes. If this goes interesting enough, I might get and build one.

[Rolle2k]

i actually email them yesterday about the frame, but unfortunately some things seems to have changed.. like weight and price since the indiegogo campaign.

This is the answer i got.

Thanks for your liking of our new ultra light aero road bike frame FM126.
The frame weight will be the same as the website. The weight for size 54cm will be 900g for size 54cm, UD Matt finished and hardware.
And the cost is USD850 for frame, fork, seatpost, super light aero integrated handlebar, axles and headset; The shipping cost to Sweden is USD150 by DPD.
One color painting is USD60, and USD80 for two colors. And we did not do metallic painting. If you book now, we can give you USD100 discount.


If i remember correctly, the frame was erlier sub-800g weight, and price was around USD750 incl. paint/gold hardware (or around 650 the cheper variant unpainted/black hardware) i think that price was without handlebars though.  So around $120 more expensive, and 100g heavier if i remember correctly.

[Vasegaard]

They are also going to stick with 32C.

[Abobich]

If i remember correctly, the frame was erlier sub-800g weight, and price was around USD750 incl. paint/gold hardware (or around 650 the cheper variant unpainted/black hardware) i think that price was without handlebars though.  So around $120 more expensive, and 100g heavier if i remember correctly.

Sub 800g was claimed for raw carbon in size 49 without metal parts

[Rolle2k]

They are also going to stick with 32C.

Have you got this answer from them, and they have said that 32mm clearance is final?

I got some more answers.. frame WITHOUT handlebars is US$765.
Also as Abobich says.. 900gm is for 54 frame with hardware.. if going for 54 Raw carbon, then weight is 840g with hardware according to their last email to me.

So price is $765+$60-80(paint)+$150(shipping)-$100 discount for preorder. So $875-895 depending on if i choose 1 or 2 color paint.
Really thinking about possibly getting this frame.

[Vasegaard]

yeah.
just spoke with Jack.
It is going to be 32C, furthermore they are going to do it in two molds and glue the frame together with carbon bonding

[Requiem84]

Wrong thread.

Looking forward to the 56 going into production. Will snag one up.