Tavelo Arden

[Chineseweaklegrider]

Patty I believe this 100% has to do with price point.  When your local team is racing a $2850 Winspace let me know.  To be fair I'll give Winspace their flowers for the M6, since it's an affordable aero bike that fixes the issues with the T1600 and SLC5 while providing modern features like UDH and is able to run Winspace's new bars. 

The big problem for me with Winspace and why I ditched them was you can almost count on them coming out with something better in 6 months and them not really building the brand here in the US more.  Hate them or love them especially with the Nero Shows critique of Quick Pro, but they actually did the right thing nailing down L39ion Los Angeles.  As MKHD Marques Brownlee said it best, selling to enthusiasts is the worse, because they are not loyal to the brand but are mostly spec driven and will jump ship to anything better and while the enthusiast market while lucrative since these demos spend a lot of money, it's one of the smallest demographics out there.  ie your average cyclist has no clue about Winspace or Winspace being ridden in your local teams or hell even in the Vuelta.  Yes crit racing is niche, but in terms of reach Justin Williams in particular for L39ion are recognizable, not only because he has 116K Instagram followers, but because he helped launch the Specialized Allez Sprint, and because he a cyclist of color.  ie I say this with all do respect to you Patty because I love your work, but instead of Winspace giving you, Charles Ouimet, or Petr Minarik Winspace bikes, put that time and money into getting the brand properly launched in America with a guy like Justin.  Again, I love you Patty and you are the reason I am even on this sub or care about a lot about Chinese brands, but in terms of brand building and making Winspace "cool" again, yeah some of it is dumb luck like in getting this to go semi viral, but some of it is just being more strategic and like another poster alluded to, not being "dumb" and hanging a shipping container from a M6 frame.  Who cares?

Winspace is the same company that birthed Tavelo, which has a total of four bikes if you count the Arden and Winspace has 10 current bike frames.  This is the same company that let Joe from Panda Podium walk after he basically helped launch that brand and then essentially helped propel Quick Pro.  So yeah when that poster said Winspace is "stupid" I kind of agree

And you guys also know the ship container hanging BS? LOL, so its same I believe real riders have the same common sense.

[Sakizashi]

And you guys also know the ship container hanging BS? LOL, so its same I believe real riders have the same common sense.

It's also uncreative. Copying something Volvo did. I think Ford did a version of it too.

[Chineseweaklegrider]

It's also uncreative. Copying something Volvo did. I think Ford did a version of it too.

Ofc it is, Huacai(owner of WINSPACE) himself does not even want to act same as VOLVO CEO or Chuck Norris.

[jrasero]

Got in my pre-order with Underdog Cycling out of Toronto.  I was great dealing with the owner Edward since I had a bunch of questions on the Incolor SR and the Tavelo Arden.  As I mentioned to Edward, it's so nice not having to get on live chat at 9:00pm in NY and chat with Panda Podium or manufactures directly, when I can get most of my questions answered during normal US business hours. 

Ordered the Tavelo Arden in "cracked blue" size 45/Small with the Riser bar in a 90x340. 

Edward provided the insight that Tavelo for whatever reason is slower to produce the smaller sizes and he estimated my frame would take around 3wks to produce, but he would keep me up to date along the process and would provide an ETA asap. 

This Tavelo Arden is replacing my Gen 4 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD.  The reason is the stack and reach are basically spot on, while keeping the frame in a sub 900g weight.  My SSE Hi-MOD is in the Rally Red and I have loved the bright red paint, exposed carbon on the top tube, and the nude black rear, but the Arden's crack blue paint job is just banging.

So why the Arden over arguably a great Western bike?  UDH, similar stack race option to the Gen 4 SSE, and really one of the few Western or Chinese bikes that provides clearance to run 35mm-40mm tires.  With a slew of bikes in 2025-2026 being released and NONE of them including plus tire clearance, it's safe to say we are stuck at 32mm-34mm clearance for the next 3+ years.  Also the inclusion of the Riser bar is a major plus, since I am a big believer in high stack for holding position.  The big question is can the Arden be run 2X on a 23mm-24mm internal wheel with 35mm GP5000 S TR.  I know I hedging a lot on the ability to run larger than the standard 28mm-32mm race tires, but I truly think 35mm+ for road is the future

[patliean1]

Again, I love you Patty and you are the reason I am even on this sub or care about a lot about Chinese brands, but in terms of brand building and making Winspace "cool" again, yeah some of it is dumb luck like in getting this to go semi viral, but some of it is just being more strategic and like another poster alluded to, not being "dumb" and hanging a shipping container from a M6 frame.  Who cares?

A proper marketing rollout requires putting the product in the hands of individuals across all the key demographics. Obviously if a brand has the budget to do so. While this could be laterally, it tends to work best vertically. No different than in the auto or photography industries, respectively. Influencers, journalists, enthusiasts, etc.

NorCal Cycling - The professional crit race, analytics, and performance guy. Large YouTube following.
GC Performance - The proven high volume sales guy with a decade of industry experience. Also large following.
Hambini/Peak Torque - The expert engineers with a focus on safety and QC.
Legion/Pro Team - Street cred and social media.

Then there is myself. Near the bottom of totem pole as the average enthusiast with no actual professional experience in anything. I am a very low financial risk low reward option for brands. Yet my ROI is arguably and proportionally just as successful as any big time influencer. I know where I stand within the cycling influencer universe. But this marketing hierarchy strategy actually makes my job much easier when brands trickle down their new releases to me after having sent them to more seasoned Youtubers and professional athletes first.

The QuickPro ER One is good example of this. Now that the frame his been certified by actual high level athletes, it's far easier for me to convince QuickPro to average enthusiasts as an average dude myself.

But here is the thing: Local race teams on sponsored Chinese bikes are terrible at actually selling bikes. So kudos to QuickPro for signing on the famous Legion of LA. I highly doubt their partnership is profitable to QuickPro on the front end. 6-figure contract, large order of framesets. How many bikes/frame would QuickPro have to sell to offset those marketing expenses? But I'm sure it has indirectly generated more sales on the backend. At least on my end it has.

[Chineseweaklegrider]

A proper marketing rollout requires putting the product in the hands of individuals across all the key demographics. Obviously if a brand has the budget to do so. While this could be laterally, it tends to work best vertically. No different than in the auto or photography industries, respectively. Influencers, journalists, enthusiasts, etc.

NorCal Cycling - The professional crit race, analytics, and performance guy. Large YouTube following.
GC Performance - The proven high volume sales guy with a decade of industry experience. Also large following.
Hambini/Peak Torque - The expert engineers with a focus on safety and QC.
Legion/Pro Team - Street cred and social media.

Then there is myself. Near the bottom of totem pole as the average enthusiast with no actual professional experience in anything. I am a very low financial risk low reward option for brands. Yet my ROI is arguably and proportionally just as successful as any big time influencer. I know where I stand within the cycling influencer universe. But this marketing hierarchy strategy actually makes my job much easier when brands trickle down their new releases to me after having sent them to more seasoned Youtubers and professional athletes first.

The QuickPro ER One is good example of this. Now that the frame his been certified by actual high level athletes, it's far easier for me to convince QuickPro to average enthusiasts as an average dude myself.

But here is the thing: Local race teams on sponsored Chinese bikes are terrible at actually selling bikes. So kudos to QuickPro for signing on the famous Legion of LA. I highly doubt their partnership is profitable to QuickPro on the front end. 6-figure contract, large order of framesets. How many bikes/frame would QuickPro have to sell to offset those marketing expenses? But I'm sure it has indirectly generated more sales on the backend. At least on my end it has.

I think thats the differenc between NA riders and Chinese riders, in China we do not buy bikes based on the influencers reviews too much, we only buy bikes from the forums comments or videos that no-follower riders reviews. I'd rather trust a video review with 30 followers than a 10k followers review video. Because all the so called influencers got paid to make content like that.
I do not need to put many brands national wide, but just 2 brands in my city, X-SOON and Kontax.
These two brands are from my city - Hangzhou, many so called cycling influencers rode XSOON before to brag how good it is, but now XSOON company is closed. You can not see XSOON bikes in daily riding, you could only see it on internet, so once XSOON closed down, those influencers now are riding Kontax bikes, same video content, same words, same no one ride this bike in daily.
When you go to Tieba (Chinese forum) to ask how is the Kontax frame, you will get the negative comments for sure.
Except those pro team bikes, this is how we choose frames, because we are very easy to get the first hand info from Chinese internet.
Not here to argue, just share my point of view.

[Dareios]

I think thats the differenc between NA riders and Chinese riders, in China we do not buy bikes based on the influencers reviews too much, we only buy bikes from the forums comments or videos that no-follower riders reviews. I'd rather trust a video review with 30 followers than a 10k followers review video. Because all the so called influencers got paid to make content like that.
I do not need to put many brands national wide, but just 2 brands in my city, X-SOON and Kontax.
These two brands are from my city - Hangzhou, many so called cycling influencers rode XSOON before to brag how good it is, but now XSOON company is closed. You can not see XSOON bikes in daily riding, you could only see it on internet, so once XSOON closed down, those influencers now are riding Kontax bikes, same video content, same words, same no one ride this bike in daily.
When you go to Tieba (Chinese forum) to ask how is the Kontax frame, you will get the negative comments for sure.
Except those pro team bikes, this is how we choose frames, because we are very easy to get the first hand info from Chinese internet.
Not here to argue, just share my point of view.

Interesting insight, in Europd the influencer thing only seems to affect a small part of, mostly young, cyclists.
You mentionig Kontax make me courious, cause I once started a thread about the Kontax Surposs Pro. Looks interesting to me, but nobody in the West seems to have any info about that one, let alone experience with it. How is that frame viewed in China?

[TommyGun]

I think thats the differenc between NA riders and Chinese riders, in China we do not buy bikes based on the influencers reviews too much, we only buy bikes from the forums comments or videos that no-follower riders reviews. I'd rather trust a video review with 30 followers than a 10k followers review video. Because all the so called influencers got paid to make content like that.
I do not need to put many brands national wide, but just 2 brands in my city, X-SOON and Kontax.
These two brands are from my city - Hangzhou, many so called cycling influencers rode XSOON before to brag how good it is, but now XSOON company is closed. You can not see XSOON bikes in daily riding, you could only see it on internet, so once XSOON closed down, those influencers now are riding Kontax bikes, same video content, same words, same no one ride this bike in daily.
When you go to Tieba (Chinese forum) to ask how is the Kontax frame, you will get the negative comments for sure.
Except those pro team bikes, this is how we choose frames, because we are very easy to get the first hand info from Chinese internet.
Not here to argue, just share my point of view.

Very good point. And my opinion is exactly the same. If I am deciding on buying component/frame/wheels/bike, I will always look at reviews from other non-influencer riders from forums and (small) YouTube channels.

And do not get me wrong. I love Pattys reviews (and many others), and I watch them all. But when buying something, I always look if there is a discount code, or even if the reviewed product was given for free, as I then know, it is a paid review, and I must take that review with a pinch of salt.

The only real decider from these influencer is, when there is a video with side to side comparison of multiple same catagory products (even if they are all advertised).

[Chineseweaklegrider]

Interesting insight, in Europd the influencer thing only seems to affect a small part of, mostly young, cyclists.
You mentionig Kontax make me courious, cause I once started a thread about the Kontax Surposs Pro. Looks interesting to me, but nobody in the West seems to have any info about that one, let alone experience with it. How is that frame viewed in China?

Thank you for your asking my friend, Kontax brand, tbh I am a little curious too, because there is a cycling influencer in my city with more than 50k follower in both Bilibili and Rednote
He said Kontax is a big factory not like XSOON, I remember 2 years ago Kontax opened a shop near my office here in Liangzhu, Hangzhou. At that time we were surprised about this brand, never heard but sold too expensive, in 2026 after XSOON faded, it seems Kontax is beginning to promote more and more.
https://space.bilibili.com/3546585111726563
This influencer first sold WINSPACE, later he began to sell XSOON, after these two brands market future compromised, he now started to promote Kontax.
My friend bought herself and her daught a Kontax folding bike and child bike from this local Kontax shop, she does not know too much about bikes, just like the design/looking.
Other than that, I dont see many reviews of Kontax too. No discussions.

This is pretty much information I got of Kontax, I can not really give you any review or judge, but not very well known here yet.
Kontax Chinese name is 超探, so if you could use Tieba or Rednot or bilibili, you may check it for more Chinese reviews.

[Chineseweaklegrider]

Very good point. And my opinion is exactly the same. If I am deciding on buying component/frame/wheels/bike, I will always look at reviews from other non-influencer riders from forums and (small) YouTube channels.

And do not get me wrong. I love Pattys reviews (and many others), and I watch them all. But when buying something, I always look if there is a discount code, or even if the reviewed product was given for free, as I then know, it is a paid review, and I must take that review with a pinch of salt.

The only real decider from these influencer is, when there is a video with side to side comparison of multiple same catagory products (even if they are all advertised).

Thank you for your sharing. I want to add on some points more, like I replied to other post here on this forum, I signed up for this forum is just because I bought a THINKRIDER PP5 powermeter, and I checked many advertised video contents in China, also many non-influencer reviews, but the thing is they almost have the same results, in the end there is not many real professional reviews like Shanes, so I googled it and found it here. I think the reason I posted so many here is just want to close the info gap bewteen Chinese cyclists and overseas cyclists, even my English is poor need to use AI to explain details to you.
We need more professional reviews, and you need more first hand information.

[Dell]

We need more professional reviews, and you need more first hand information.

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I do really wish we had more YouTubers etc. going to China to test ride and showcase local brands' bikes, not just the same old repetitive factory tours. It's crazy that SUNPEED, one of the bigger budget brands in China, is only now getting showcased on a notable YouTube channel. Instead, all we get is China Cycling showcasing the most overpriced stuff you can find in China and China Rides doing a review after a 30 min ride around the block, while all the YouTubers visiting the country make videos of similar looking factories.
(Would be fun to see some content on different routes on YouTube, too, since from my experience, China feels like the best place in the world to ride. Qiandaohu beats Lake Como any day of the week!)

[Chineseweaklegrider]

I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I do really wish we had more YouTubers etc. going to China to test ride and showcase local brands' bikes, not just the same old repetitive factory tours. It's crazy that SUNPEED, one of the bigger budget brands in China, is only now getting showcased on a notable YouTube channel. Instead, all we get is China Cycling showcasing the most overpriced stuff you can find in China and China Rides doing a review after a 30 min ride around the block, while all the YouTubers visiting the country make videos of similar looking factories.
(Would be fun to see some content on different routes on YouTube, too, since from my experience, China feels like the best place in the world to ride. Qiandaohu beats Lake Como any day of the week!)

Can't agree more, luckily I live in Hangzhou, very close to Qiandao hu(thousands lakes), I also have been to Como lake in Milano for EICMA, but I didnt have a chance to cycle there, for me the difference is the route, Qiandaohu is more like a flat route, 134km with 500-700m climb, Como lake seems a moutain route, the place beside Como lake is the finish line of Il Lombardia. But the scenery are both very beautiful.
Hope you guys could come to visit Hangzhou someday we can ride together.

[qwertyas]

Can we see somewhere some real photos and geometry data of this frame?

[k0M_hUnter]

Photos: https://tavelo.cc/products/tavelo-arden-race-frameset?VariantsId=11802
Geometry and specs: Apparently they don't think they are very important

Makes me wonder if the Chinese prices are low enough.
Crappy sites and information. Many times need to talk directly with people. Questionable service and huge delays to get the product (or the replacement). Obviously no physical shops to go and check/test the items you will buy and later complain if needed

Anyway....going back to make excuses that I need the XMCS VRT and a new set of chinese wheelset

[jrasero]

Tavelo is an odd company.  They genuinely have a product that maybe only a few Western brands offer spec wise in the Arden, ie 35mm+ tire clearance with an aero do it all bike and there was genuine excitement over the product since Sea Otter, yet they totally have missed the boat in marketing and launching the Arden.  I tried contacting Tavelo direct multiple times trying to place a pre-order with zero response.  I fell across Underdog Cycling in Toronto that took my pre-order.  Skya Sports that Patty Lino has mentioned and worked with had zero info or ability to order in North America.  Besides this forum, it was only Underdog Cycling that had a geo chart and more importantly pricing.  Tavelo fumbled a bit with Peak Torque but kind of rebounded, so you think they want to nail the launch of the Arden, because I have been told the Arden will replace the Arrow.  I remember contacting UDC in early July and UDC telling me Tavelo was just getting back from Euro Bike at the end of June and that's why they had not launched the Arden, yeah then weeks went by with no launch.  UDC kept telling me they officially couldn't launch the Arden on their site until Tavelo did.  It's just so weird because it wasn't until the third week of July Tavelo started taking pre-orders for the Arden and even then there is no geo chart, no picking sizes, and the riser bar is missing a few widths and sizes that are offered if you order it separately.  The Arden isn't even listed under their road bike page and you think they want it plastered on their front of their webpage, but just no mention of it unless you search Arden on their site.  Just weird.  Also the colorways are just weird.  The SLURM Arctic Volt, Black Pop, Blue-Pink for the Race model all kind of suck.  The black SL version is well just black and probably done for weight savings.  The one color everyone loved in the cracked blue marble paint seen at Sea Otter is being offered sort of but no mention about it with Tavelo directly or places like SSPADE (NA Seller), Creative Cycles Workshop (Australia), Ti Parts (Singapore), CCACHE (Australia), Under Dog Cycling (Toronto), 

The crazy thing about Tavelo is I am fully behind them.  I like how they are former Winspace guys (I like Winspace products) but they aren't cranking out models non stop like Winspace so you don't get FOMO and it allows the bike to mature.  I love the price since their frames truly start under $2K.  I like their ability to read the market and deliver cool tech like riser bars, larger clearance, and add features like threaded bottom brackets and put out some pretty great wheels starting at $1K.