H-Works vs. Elitewheels Hubs | Seeking Long-Term Feedback & Heavy Rider Testers

[Jason_BladeX]

I've always thought water contamination could be one of the biggest causes of bearing failure. It's probably not just the water itself, once water carries fine sand, dirt or other contaminants past the seals and into the bearing, you can immediately feel the grittiness.

What I don't know yet is whether the ceramic bearing setup itself is more sensitive to this kind of contamination, or whether the bigger factors are the seals, grease, tolerances and steel races. That's something I think is worth investigating.

The fact that your front hub has been fine after switching to good steel bearings is also very interesting. For us, long term reliability matters more than simply having "ceramic bearings" on the spec sheet.

Thanks for sharing the actual mileage and riding conditions, this kind of real world information is exactly what I'm looking for.

I'd be very interested to hear how the steel bearings hold up after you've put some more mileage on them. If you happen to know the bearing model as well, that would also be useful, since the sealing design can vary quite a lot between different bearings.

Well.. my H Work hubs came with ceramic bearing.. that was just for advertisement at exhibitions (I got a color swatch which is usually shown at exhibitions)
My conclusion: i had to change the front bearings in less than a year. After replacement everything is fine at the front. And today I spinned the rear wheel in my fingers... feels like i have a pepper mill..
This is now roughly 1,5 years , every good and bad weather, cycling trough winter. I kept care of good protection from water and salt with high viscosity grease, so that's not the issue... but that's a very fast dead I need to admit.
Of course if water enters the inner it's a sudden death. (Alson know that  )
Mileage is something around 5000km. I can't tell it more precise , as I use 3 wheelsets  on that bike and didn't track it too precise.

So what to do:
I will exchange the rear also with decent steel bearings and then everything will be absolutely fine. That's how it is on the front since I changed.

[Pedaldancer]

I've always thought water contamination could be one of the biggest causes of bearing failure. It's probably not just the water itself, once water carries fine sand, dirt or other contaminants past the seals and into the bearing, you can immediately feel the grittiness.

What I don't know yet is whether the ceramic bearing setup itself is more sensitive to this kind of contamination, or whether the bigger factors are the seals, grease, tolerances and steel races. That's something I think is worth investigating.

The fact that your front hub has been fine after switching to good steel bearings is also very interesting. For us, long term reliability matters more than simply having "ceramic bearings" on the spec sheet.

Thanks for sharing the actual mileage and riding conditions, this kind of real world information is exactly what I'm looking for.

I'd be very interested to hear how the steel bearings hold up after you've put some more mileage on them. If you happen to know the bearing model as well, that would also be useful, since the sealing design can vary quite a lot between different bearings.

For sure any kind of dirt influences the system. It's basically grinding.
I wanted to open the failed ceramic bearings... I am very sure I didn't throw them away, but just one day after the maintenance I couldn't find them. 
For the rear I try to be better..I usually open failed units to investigate what led to the failure.
I use 2RS sealed bearings, but I can't even tell you the brand
I have a good online shop, where I just order them and they are not specified with regards to the underlying company in most cases.. i don't go for the cheapest but also not the most expensive.
For the replacement I need to check if I have the correct sizes on my stock... maybe... but as I am perfect in procrastinating it could take a bit..i hate to exchange bearings.. sometimes they are too much pressed in which makes them sticky.. and if not pressed in enough the free hub touches them and you create  a fixie unintentionally. 


 
Just for information, the shop where I buy all bearings (don't know how shipping is to other countries) .. they have also an amazing amount of headset bearings for super reasonable prices. If there's "ACR" in the abbreviation, I am very sure it is Acros. It has been like this several times now.
https://www.kugellager-shop.net/

[FrostedDyslexia]

https://www.kugellager-shop.net/

Might be worth to compare prices with these guys: https://motionparts.de/

They were the one shop where I found NTN bearings for my hubs (and some non-standard size I needed that's apparently hard to source - not ntn though, zen).
Also at very reasonable prices.

edit: Ah, to add to the topic. My Elitewheels Aero+ (different hub than Edge) ceramic bearings were also pretty shot after just one year and that wasn't a year with a lot of riding. Neither did I ride through full on rain. Damp roads - maybe a couple of times. System weight probably like 106-107kg.

[Jason_BladeX]

That's a really interesting point about the bearing fit.

Press fitting is actually a very delicate part of hub design and assembly. Even bearings with the same nominal size can have small dimensional differences between brands, so in theory, if you wanted the fit to be absolutely perfect, you'd need to machine the bearing seat in the hub shell specifically around the exact bearing you're using.

This is also one of the reasons I think bearing choice and hub tolerances shouldn't be looked at separately.

I've also seen quite a few ceramic bearings that felt rough or slightly gritty immediately after installation. My suspicion is that ceramic bearings may be more sensitive to installation damage. The ceramic balls are much harder than the steel races, so if the bearing is pressed incorrectly, or the installation load passes through the wrong part of the bearing, the steel races may be more easily damaged or distorted.

I don't know if that's the main reason yet, but it's definitely something I think is worth investigating.

If you do end up opening the rear bearing later, I'd be really interested to know what you find inside, especially whether there is corrosion, dirt contamination, race damage, or anything else that could explain the roughness.

For sure any kind of dirt influences the system. It's basically grinding.
I wanted to open the failed ceramic bearings... I am very sure I didn't throw them away, but just one day after the maintenance I couldn't find them. 
For the rear I try to be better..I usually open failed units to investigate what led to the failure.
I use 2RS sealed bearings, but I can't even tell you the brand
I have a good online shop, where I just order them and they are not specified with regards to the underlying company in most cases.. i don't go for the cheapest but also not the most expensive.
For the replacement I need to check if I have the correct sizes on my stock... maybe... but as I am perfect in procrastinating it could take a bit..i hate to exchange bearings.. sometimes they are too much pressed in which makes them sticky.. and if not pressed in enough the free hub touches them and you create  a fixie unintentionally. 


 
Just for information, the shop where I buy all bearings (don't know how shipping is to other countries) .. they have also an amazing amount of headset bearings for super reasonable prices. If there's "ACR" in the abbreviation, I am very sure it is Acros. It has been like this several times now.
https://www.kugellager-shop.net/

[Pedaldancer]

That's a really interesting point about the bearing fit.

Press fitting is actually a very delicate part of hub design and assembly.

You are a bit overthinking... that's my feeling. Pressing in to much or not much enough is just happening.  That's even described in older DTSWISS manual.  If pressed in to much, push it very slightly out again until it spins well.

It's luckily no rocket science 

[Pedaldancer]

Might be worth to compare prices with these guys: https://motionparts.de/

They were the one shop where I found NTN bearings for my hubs (and some non-standard size I needed that's apparently hard to source - not ntn though, zen).
Also at very reasonable prices.

edit: Ah, to add to the topic. My Elitewheels Aero+ (different hub than Edge) ceramic bearings were also pretty shot after just one year and that wasn't a year with a lot of riding. Neither did I ride through full on rain. Damp roads - maybe a couple of times. System weight probably like 106-107kg.

Always good to have options. Unless i can't find a bearing in my usual shop, i will just stick to them . They are very close to my place, just supporting also a local vendor a bit . 

For the esrly failure of the elite ceramic bearings... i heard of a story where the bearings where damaged at one position on the front wheel after the bike was on the power trainer for winter time. The conclusion was that the bare weight on the front wheel which wasn't spinning at all obviously damaged them 
I could imagine that the ceramic created dents from the static load in the cage side walls and then basically you're lost