Chinertown
Other Resources => Component Deals & Selection => Topic started by: capttowers on January 25, 2023, 10:30:32 AM
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I had intentions of playing it safe with a new set of Shimano XT M8120 disc brakes for a build, but thought about rolling the dice on the IIIPro E4 brakes seen on AliExpress ($96). The colors and cheap price pulled me in!
Has anyone had any experience with these brakes? Do you trust them to keep you safe on steep descents? Sorry for the ugly link:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256804577690212.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.5.39c96ad7DlcKpK&algo_pvid=20cbce48-2c05-4bee-981b-6262bbf1efcb&algo_exp_id=20cbce48-2c05-4bee-981b-6262bbf1efcb-2&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000030384938778%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21144.12%2198.0%21%21%21%21%21%40211bea7b16746634917912248d06ed%2112000030384938778%21sea&curPageLogUid=ecEqeLD4xL3M
(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/S4a28df051a244d2e80d71eab5e27996aJ/Bicycle-Hydraulic-Disc-Brake-4-Piston-MTB-Brake-Caliper-IIIPRO-E4-Mountain-Bike-Brake-Oil-Pressure.jpg_Q90.jpg_.webp)
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So i have the ZRACE version of the 2 piston ones, Same design with different logo, and i like them so far. i have not pushed them super hard but they have been great for XC riding in the midwest.
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IPRO does brakes for both road and MTB. Other companies just slap their name on them. At this point, I think the Chinese brake calipers are pretty solid for the price. I still think the Juin Tech calipers are bit more refined at a higher price point, so it's really up to you how much you want to spend. I have Onirii/IPRO, Juin Tech and Shimano hydraulic calipers on my various bikes and they all do a good job.
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You don't get the fancy colors, but for not much more you can get shimano brakes.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832790296944.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.49f769f0ABPHf6&algo_pvid=abdca36f-d1ee-468a-bce8-30335479ac9d&aem_p4p_detail=202301251034414576228032052400028028278&algo_exp_id=abdca36f-d1ee-468a-bce8-30335479ac9d-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2266950494801%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21139.8%21116.03%21%21%21%21%21%40211bc2a016746716817998296d06d7%2166950494801%21sea&curPageLogUid=JmS9M34Tm6f8&ad_pvid=202301251034414576228032052400028028278_1&ad_pvid=202301251034414576228032052400028028278_1
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You don't get the fancy colors, but for not much more you can get shimano brakes.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832790296944.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.49f769f0ABPHf6&algo_pvid=abdca36f-d1ee-468a-bce8-30335479ac9d&aem_p4p_detail=202301251034414576228032052400028028278&algo_exp_id=abdca36f-d1ee-468a-bce8-30335479ac9d-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2266950494801%22%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21USD%21139.8%21116.03%21%21%21%21%21%40211bc2a016746716817998296d06d7%2166950494801%21sea&curPageLogUid=JmS9M34Tm6f8&ad_pvid=202301251034414576228032052400028028278_1&ad_pvid=202301251034414576228032052400028028278_1
You're right. I have the Deore 6120 (4-piston version) on a bike currently and they perform very well for a lower cost shimano brake system.
The HOPE knock offs pulled me in with their cool colorways :)
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The big difference versus XT (if nothing else) is going to be lever ergonomics and feel. Those are big, high angle two-finger levers. Everything about Deore/SLX/XT/XTR is designed around single finger braking and they have good ergonomics with a nice wide lever surface at a shallow angle.
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I purchased a set of these during the 11-11 sale and put them on my latest hardtail build. To date, I have only ridden the bike on flat asphalt. They worked great during my test rides, but I haven't hit the mountains yet due to winter snow. (Therefore they haven't been put to any real braking challenges.)
I want to purchase a second set, but the prices are significantly higher than what I paid for mine. ($80 with free shipping.) Now, most Aliexpress stores are selling them for $98 to $116. I hope the price drops back down before spring.
From my perspective, they were easy to install and set up on the bike. They have a good firm feel to them with good modulation. As I've found out over the years, the rotors and pads make a significant difference on all of the disc brake systems I have on my bikes.
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I have been considering purchasing the ZTTO hydraulic 4 piston brake set. Much less expensive. (To date, I haven't had any problems with other ZTTO parts I've purchased.
Any thought on these brakes? Only $58.00 for a set. ??? (They weigh more than the IIIPros.)
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803409965298.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.seoads.1.25f22882gTNJPJ&ad_pvid=202301260925388326283687139040031521868_1&s=p&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US
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I actually had the ZTTO brakes on my bike (rigid HT with gravel 40mm tires) and although they performed really well, I swapped them for the IIIPRO 4 pistons. The lever was too far to reach and kind off awkward build. Goes very outward so I never could reach it completely. Almost crashed in a tree doing some twisty singletracks because I had to loosen my grip on the bars to brake and slid right off with 1 hand. Now if you have bigger hands or longer fingers, the brakes could work for you because they had a nice bite and great brake performance. As I said, I now ride with the IIIPRO's, these are really great (and lever travel can be adjusted). Did now some 400km or so with them. Terrain is something between gravel and XC. Used them in the mud, dry, cold,... always equal power. Somewhere on this page I reported my findings so far. Nutshell: great stopping power, nice design, lightweight, rear caliper is touching frame so rubbed a bit in beginning (frame specific I guess), Bolts are not great quality but easily swapped. Overall really happy. Once I have more "test data", I will likely purchase a second set for my XC hardtail.
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I have been considering purchasing the ZTTO hydraulic 4 piston brake set. Much less expensive. (To date, I haven't had any problems with other ZTTO parts I've purchased.
Any thought on these brakes? Only $58.00 for a set. ??? (They weigh more than the IIIPros.)
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803409965298.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.seoads.1.25f22882gTNJPJ&ad_pvid=202301260925388326283687139040031521868_1&s=p&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US
The ZTTO brakes (like probably most of these knock off brakes) are probably fine for moderate use and general trail riding. They start to fail when put to the test of heavy enduro/downhill use. Check out this video testing the ZTTO brakes at Snowshoe Mountain in West Virginia, USA
https://youtu.be/lQBWURJd6zo (https://youtu.be/lQBWURJd6zo)
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How much of that failure is down to the bleed/cheap pads/oil and how much is down to design and materials? Could they be rescued and made reliable by bleeding them with proper oil and swapping in some decent pads?
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How much of that failure is down to the bleed/cheap pads/oil and how much is down to design and materials? Could they be rescued and made reliable by bleeding them with proper oil and swapping in some decent pads?
Yeah, but that is it with these cheap Chinese brakes/groupsets... They work kinda OK, and then you spend hours and days and more money to try to get them to work a little better...
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I have always understood that if the hydraulic lines are bled and the calipers are set up/adjusted correctly, lever fade is usually due to the mineral oil becoming too hot and boiling/making bubbles. When the levers stay firm, but the brakes fade, this is due to the pads/compound and/or the rotors.
I have had lever fade happen on occasion on my Scumano XT hydraulic brakes. Usually when this happens the rotors are flaming hot, and the calipers are too hot to touch. This used to happen more often until I replaced the rotors with heat dissipating floating rotors.
Lever fade has happened to me usually when I have been on very steep long fast descents where I have to keep the brake/s applied for a long period of time to keep my speed down. When I am on technical trails where I have to brake hard, then release the brakes, then hard again and again, I have never had lever fade.
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IIIPro update. I've been using my IIIPros a lot this summer. About a week ago, I started hearing a grinding sound on the rear brake and the caliper wasn't gripping the rotor/stopping very well. I was in a rush, so I took of the caliper and saw that the anodizing was worn off in areas on edges of the caliper. When I actuated the lever, I could see that one pair of pistons weren't moving. The other pair of pistons and the brake pad were pushing the rotor onto the caliper and making the rotor rub on the caliper. I swapped out the caliper with another rear IIIPro caliper, bled it and the bike was back on the trails.
Today I took a look the the caliper and hooked it up to the lever mated to the bike I swapped the caliper from. When the lever was pulled, all 4 pistons move evenly like they should. I am wondering if some sort of air bubble formed so that the one side stopped working.
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Received my set yesterday and installed the front. Inboard pistons don't seem to move as easily as the outboard pistons, and the lever body rotates slightly around the clamp bolt while pulling the brake lever.
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These are probably the lightest 4 piston brakes on the market right now? I'm considering it for my incoming ultralight build.
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I'm using these calipers with Shimano XT levers, and I'm happy so far(3 months of use). 4pot infront, 2pot rear. I use original BS05 shimano pads for rear brake and COOMA pink (ceramic) infront.
Resing BS05 pads bites earlier and have less modulation than pink cearamic. Overall, i think this calipers are good for XC. The levers are ergonomically and aesthetically bad, i dont like them at all.
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These are probably the lightest 4 piston brakes on the market right now? I'm considering it for my incoming ultralight build.
got mine down to 340g with 2 piston calipers. you can see if the trickstuff levers are compatible but they are pricey.
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Hi guys. I just got these for my Ariel Rider x class and love them.
But the stock pads don't handle moisture very well, so I'm looking to replace them with something better.
Are there any brandname options available for these? And what's the best outlet to purchase from?
Tyia
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Hi guys. I just got these for my Ariel Rider x class and love them.
But the stock pads don't handle moisture very well, so I'm looking to replace them with something better.
Are there any brandname options available for these? And what's the best outlet to purchase from?
Tyia
Get these: https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005003821161271.html
The variant that fits your brakes is BP045. These are excellent in every way and are not phased by water. I use them on all my bikes.
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Anyone who owns these brakes know if the newer IIIPRO IV4R 4 Piston Disc Hydraulic Brake, are any better or differernt?
Also i'm looking for better real estate on my left handlebar. Could I put my twinloc on the handlebar clamp or my dropper lever? Either that or going with a sram twistloc 3P remote. But that costs the same as these brakes. My Magura MT8 SL just seem so weak.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806171110649.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller.2.2dcbBsR6BsR6uw&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40000.326746.0&scm_id=1007.40000.326746.0&scm-url=1007.40000.326746.0&pvid=64dfc9f3-c989-4372-a35a-7154f7583f0b&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40000.326746.0,pvid:64dfc9f3-c989-4372-a35a-7154f7583f0b,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238110%23350&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%2172.90%2156.13%21%21%2172.90%2156.13%21%40210330dd17278410195177751e5945%2112000036879659540%21rec%21US%21191630953%21X&utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller%7Cquery_from%3A
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Are They to be trusted? To date, I have 3 sets in operation on different bikes. Overall I have been pleased with their performance. This being stated...
I recently finished riding a 600 mile bikepacking route that really put my loaded bike through the grinder. You name it, I encountered severe riding conditions almost every day of the ride. The brakes worked well until the last 2 days, I was having to pull the lever farther to get the same braking power. I figured it was due to pad wear.
Yesterday I replaced the rear pads. After replacing the pads, the lever pulled all the way to the bars without locking the calipers on the rotor while it is on the bike stand.
I removed the bleed screws, and set up my brake bleed kit, and went through my typical process that usually gets any bubbles out of the levers and calipers. No improvement. next I performed both a forward and reverse flush of the mineral oil. No difference. (I do this with the caliper removed from the frame, pads removed and the thick plastic spacer mounted between the 4 pistons.)
I am wondering why I can't get the brake to work again. leakage across the brake lever piston? Bubbles I can't get out of the caliper?
Anyone else have this type of experience with these brakes?
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This morning I swapped out my lever assembly and the caliper with a new IIIPro lever assembly and caliper. Purged fluid through the brake system, like I usually do. New brakes purged quickly and has good lever response like it used to.
One item of note. The new caliper I installed has a second purge port on the top of the caliper that my other IIIPro calipers does not exist. I am wondering if they found out they have an air bubble removal problem in the calipers and added the second port. (See attached images)
I am confident that I have a problem with the caliper. I plugged the hose inlet and the lever built pressure when I pulled on it. Then I installed the new lever and the problem persisted. Swapped the caliper, bled the brake and all became good with great lever action.
What would cause the caliper to stop working after only a pad swap? Despite trying all sorts of techniques to get bubbles out of the caliper, I was not able to get this brake to work. I will have to take the caliper apart to determine it's problem.
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Problem determined: Per my previous post, I explained that I replaced my pads and no matter what I tried I could not get the rear brake to work, so I replaced the caliper and lever with a new one.
Today, I set up the old lever and caliper on the bench. Upon careful observation of the caliper pistons, I see tiny bubbles of mineral oil coming out between the pistons and the caliper housing. Looks like the seals have gone bad on 3 of the 4 pistons.
Then I tested another caliper I removed in the past because it appeared to not be working. Same problem! Little bubbles between the piston and caliper bores.
This is disconcerting because this means I have had caliper failures on 2 out of 8 calipers. My first set was purchased and installed in early 2023. When I look up the mileage since installing the IIIPro brake on several of my bikes, the distance ridden is perhaps 3K miles.
Has anyone researched and ordered some sort of a rebuild kit? (In preparation, I ordered a piston cap removal tool.)
I will write IIIPro soon ans ask about rebuild parts. Bummer....
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I had similar issues. Bled mine multiple times after different ride intervals and they'd always start losing power to the point they were not functional. I don't know what options there are for a build kit but I replaced the brakes and maybe one day will look at servicing them again. I thought I had an issue because lots of riders sang their praises on these brakes but mine were always really weak. I'll stick with Shimano for now.
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I am researching how to get new seals. No reply from IIIPro on what it takes to rebuild them.
I was able to remove 3 of the 4 pistons, without the cap removal tool. (Ordered one off Aliexpress.)
As far as I can tell, these caliper are roughly cloned from Hope V4s.
They have 16mm pistons. (15.9mm measured.)
They appear to require a 20mm OD x 16MM ID X 2mm wide square O-ring. No clue on durometer (hardness), or if they start out with some special shape feature, or if they are a regular square 2mm x 2mm square o-rings.
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The Hope seals arrived this past Saturday. This morning I installed 4 new HNBR red seals into the failed caliper and installed the pistons. On the bench, bled new mineral oil through the lever and caliper.
After all of the bubbles were gone, I checked for firm lever action. Fail! The lever is still soft. I took a look at the pistons and small bubbles of mineral oil are still coming out between the pistons around the seals.
Something simple like new seals didn't do the trick. The new seals have the same dimensions as the old ones within the limits of my micrometer. The pistons look brand new. No indication of any wear on the surfaces.
Since they are still leaking, I am debating how much time to spend on finding what the problem is. Time versus money tradeoff.
Wondering if it is a housing o-ring groove tolerance machining issue, or if the pistons are undersized. Who knows without spending a lot of time measuring and investigating all of the possible causes.
Edit: Since 2 of my calipers failed early in their life, and new seals didn't resolve the problem, this indicates to me that it is a housing o-ring groove or piston diameter problem, or a combination of both. (Part machining tolerance stack up?)
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Are you beyond your return period? I would have just sent them back for a refund. I bought an AliEx crankset awhile back, only to find out months later (when I was about to install it), the chainring screw holes aren't threaded! Now I can't return the crank which is completely useless.
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Are you beyond your return period? I would have just sent them back for a refund. I bought an AliEx crankset awhile back, only to find out months later (when I was about to install it), the chainring screw holes aren't threaded! Now I can't return the crank which is completely useless.
Way past the return period...
2 of my 4 sets are over 1 year old. The third set is about 9 months old. I've had my 4th set for about 3 months, and had to put them in service because of the most recent caliper failure.
I have no way of knowing which brake calipers are on which bike because I often reconfigure my bike's components and swap front forks, or handlebars between bikes. Therefore, all the front calipers are all mixed up between bikes, and to a lesser degree, the rear calipers.
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Are you beyond your return period? I would have just sent them back for a refund. I bought an AliEx crankset awhile back, only to find out months later (when I was about to install it), the chainring screw holes aren't threaded! Now I can't return the crank which is completely useless.
Yikes. What crank was that?
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New versions of these have appeared. New caliper and a new lever
Like the look of these https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005007089652266.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.9.6cb316c3awcGpA&algo_pvid=bfe926a9-ed9a-4351-b39c-8ac52f973c7a&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A
https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005007466867235.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.45.6cb316c3awcGpA&algo_pvid=bfe926a9-ed9a-4351-b39c-8ac52f973c7a&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A
Also spotted these Tankes that look interesting.
https://vi.aliexpress.com/item/1005006994294134.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.25.6cb316c3awcGpA&algo_pvid=bfe926a9-ed9a-4351-b39c-8ac52f973c7a&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A
Anyone tried the newer versions yet?
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I bought these brakes in 2023, but now I have oil leaks on the brake levers, right at the base of the lever reach adjustment screw.
Does anyone know how to perform service on this, or has anyone had a similar problem?
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I bought a similar pair made by clarks. They’re CRS 4. They have have been great. I bought the Ipro 4 piston brakes on AliExpress and the front immediately started leaking from one of the pistons. I ruined a couple sets of pads before realizing it. I needed the bike operational so I bought the Bucklis brand at great cost on Amazon. Those have been great.
Bottom line is that I think there is some risk to buying things from AliExpress. The seller ghosted me when I complained about the leak
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Are they all made in the same factory? They're sold under Clarks, Bucklos, IIIPro, ZTTO and probably more at around the same price. Why the differences in seal longevity?
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I suppose all the brakes are milled in the same factory considering the number of sales.
I'm very happy with my 4 piston IIIPRO flatmount installed in the gravel bike and paired with Grx600 shifters
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i bought the zrace flavoured version for my two mtbs
after being disappointed with the difference in feel and lever travel between all four brakes i looked to bleed & degas them
carefully removing the bleed screws from the levers i found that not one of the o-rings was intact (split or in one case only 3/4 of an o-ring)
am working on the basis it is down to poor machining of the threads as it did the same to the o-rings on my bleed kit
time to stock up with loads of spare o-rings
still think they should have proper caliper bleed nipples not just bleed screws and it is a shame that bleed nipples from hope tech or shimano simply don't fit, different sizes & threads!
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I am back from my month long travels. Lets go back in time 5 weeks ago...
After my failures to get any of my 3, IIIPro calipers to work on the back of the bike, (Several of the same calipers could be bled on the bench and were working), I took a super careful look at the ferrules on the rear, internally routed, brake line. I could see scrape marks on the ferrules from all the swapping of calipers and lever assemblies. Just for grins, I cut off the existing ferrules , removing the bare minimum of housing, and installed new ferrules and nuts.
OMG, I was able to actually bleed the rear brake and started getting decent caliper pressure. I took the bike out for a spin. Yuck! no stopping power. Brought the bike back in, sanded off the rotor braking surfaces, took the bike outside again - better, but not excellent stopping power.
I was running out of time to get this bike working before my trip.
For shits and giggles, I installed the caliper that I had rebuilt and installed new seals. See previous posts I bled the rear brake assemblies again, moving all the parts in multiple positions, tapping the lines, to try to get every last bubble out. Then...
WOW! the brake lever feel and caliper movement was fantastic!!! Took the bike out for a spin and the rear brake stopping power felt fantastic!
I decided to take a risk and use the bike on my planned 500+ mile bike camping/packing ride. Guess what! Brakes worked perfectly for the complete ride. Riding through, rain, mud, dust, across creeks, bogs, wet tall grass.... No problems.
Maybe they can be trusted....
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I think they sell the 4 piston ceramic upgrade (with new o-rings) for the 4-piston IIIPRO brake calipers. I wonder if they'd perform better? They certainly help the 2 piston version, which I've confirmed on some knarly mountain down hills.
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I think they sell the 4 piston ceramic upgrade (with new o-rings) for the 4-piston IIIPRO brake calipers. I wonder if they'd perform better? They certainly help the 2 piston version, which I've confirmed on some knarly mountain down hills.
I have written/contacted Bucklos 2 times regarding rebuild kits for these calipers. They have never responded to my requests. [Support@Bucklos.com]
When I had my caliper pistons removed, they didn't appear to have any wear on them. (Looked brand new.) The seals were leaking.
I am sure you are aware that that advantage of ceramic pistons is for heat isolation to help reduce heat transfer from the pads to the brake fluid.
When you wrote "they", who is they? Bucklos or an Aliexpress store, or other.
When I was researching seals, The ones I purchased have the same dimensions as the originals. When I originally installed my replacement seals, they leaked right off the bat, so I figured I had a different problem, perhaps the caliper bore or piston machining. (It appears that after the rebuilt caliper sat for several weeks, with mineral oil inside, the seals must have swollen a bit and became sealed.)
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I'm still running a set on my Krampus. They're not bad by any means, and aesthetically they look excellent in silver/gray.
That being said, I wouldn't choose to run them over good old Shimano M6120's which only cost slightly more.
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I have written/contacted Bucklos 2 times regarding rebuild kits for these calipers. They have never responded to my requests. [Support@Bucklos.com]
When I had my caliper pistons removed, they didn't appear to have any wear on them. (Looked brand new.) The seals were leaking.
I am sure you are aware that that advantage of ceramic pistons is for heat isolation to help reduce heat transfer from the pads to the brake fluid.
When you wrote "they", who is they? Bucklos or an Aliexpress store, or other.
When I was researching seals, The ones I purchased have the same dimensions as the originals. When I originally installed my replacement seals, they leaked right off the bat, so I figured I had a different problem, perhaps the caliper bore or piston machining. (It appears that after the rebuilt caliper sat for several weeks, with mineral oil inside, the seals must have swollen a bit and became sealed.)
I suppose Jonathan is reffering to heppe as he talked about them in another thread
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005007010044999.html?pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000039049935843%22%7D&sourceType=1&spm=a2g0o.wish-manage-home.0.0&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu
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I searched the official Heppe store, and do not find a ceramic piston set with 4, 16mm pistons and seals.
I participated in a Heppe store online chat, and the agent could not find this product. They told me to write directly. I wrote directly and will have to wait until they answer.
- I ran an online search, for many variations of 16mm ceramic pistons. (No results for 16mm Ceramic pistons.)
- Hope brand 16mm OEM pistons show up along with 16mm o-rings.
FYI, I did a similar search last October, when I purchased my replacement 16mm o-rings, and no new hits have turned up.
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I guess they don't make ceramic pistons for the IIIPRO 4 piston calipers. They only have 21.9mm, 17mm and 15mm sized ceramic pistons. It looks like RISK is selling a titanium/polymer hybrid piston as well, but only in 22mm.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807502837779.html (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807502837779.html)
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I’m on nearly 8000km using these brakes. I’ve done a 14 day backpacking trip and use them on my gravel bike, so far they’re brilliant! I recently put them on my road bike, hooked them up into my grx hydraulic drop bar shifters. Happy days!
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New IIIPro brakes R2X4 - https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809230222580.html
It looks like the levers have several changes, including an olive free fitting. I can't tell if there were any caliper end changes.
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New IIIPro brakes R2X4 - https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809230222580.html
It looks like the levers have several changes, including an olive free fitting. I can't tell if there were any caliper end changes.
They look more like the Peerage levers
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New IIIPro brakes R2X4 - https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809230222580.html
It looks like the levers have several changes, including an olive free fitting. I can't tell if there were any caliper end changes.
Those levers are really attractive.
Anyone tried these? They look like a closer to a hope copy. Slightly different looking callipers.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009643699813.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.673238daYpXV3g&mp=1
Frog Wake, great name.
There's quite a few different versions now https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005008833501130.html?
Looking for brakes at the moment but the reports of leaking seals is pretty off putting.
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Have fellow forum members been reading the thread about the Magene brake failure? In the recent Magene injured person thread, it "appears" that the design isn't capable of stopping a bike when the pads are worn down to metal.
Has anyone with IIIPro brakes installed, worn their pads down below 1/4 thickness, or to the metal on their IIIPro calipers?
After reading the Magene failure thread, I started reflecting on the 3 caliper failures I have had on my IIIPros, and wonder if the IIIPros levers/calipers could have a similar deficiency. In hindsight, the 3 calipers lost braking force when the pads still had about 1/4 pad thickness left, as well as they started to leak around the seals.
Since then, I have installed my 2 remaining failed calipers (One has had new Hope 16mm seals installed and is back in service.) on a bench front-brake set up I put together. After these calipers had new pads installed, and the pistons retracted back into the calibers, and they sat for a few weeks, The 2 calipers are working again with the original seals and no leaks.
Just fishing to see if anyone else has had similar experiences, and what they have done to investigate.
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Appreciate hearing about your long term experience them. Good to know the callipers can be restored if they start leaking.
I'm still on the fence about picking some up but if they can be fairly easily fixed if they start leaking its not that much of an issue, especially if they perform at a high level while costing what they do.
Seems like every manufacturers brakes have some issue, shimanos get swollen sticky piston seals with the m8000 levers, srams use dot and the codes are renowned as being weak, maguras plastic levers have a reputation for breaking etc.
The new ONIRII IIIPRO R2X4 and R3X4 both have the Fibeax oliveless system that requires a special barb and could either be a good thing or another point of failure.
Which Magene thread are you referring to?
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Not to long a read, but some interesting information spread out in this thread.
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6358.0.html
I am wondering if the Peerage, or new Frog Wake, being discussed, might have a larger fluid reservoirs and a stroke travel/capacity versus the E4s that are originally discussed in this thread.
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6358.0.html
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809457385061.html
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I'm still looking around.. ugh Ali is such a time sink.
Anyway I saw a review on a listing for the new models r2x4 and r3x4 with the oliveless fibrex connection. Apparently it leaks.. quelle surprise.
Not to long a read, but some interesting information spread out in this thread.
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6358.0.html
I am wondering if the Peerage, or new Frog Wake, being discussed, might have a larger fluid reservoirs and a stroke travel/capacity versus the E4s that are originally discussed in this thread.
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6358.0.html
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256809457385061.html
The do look interesting. The callipers are look different to the standard IIIPro/zrace e4s and the levers look like they have more machining work put into them.
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Have fellow forum members been reading the thread about the Magene brake failure? In the recent Magene injured person thread, it "appears" that the design isn't capable of stopping a bike when the pads are worn down to metal.
Has anyone with IIIPro brakes installed, worn their pads down below 1/4 thickness, or to the metal on their IIIPro calipers?
After reading the Magene failure thread, I started reflecting on the 3 caliper failures I have had on my IIIPros, and wonder if the IIIPros levers/calipers could have a similar deficiency. In hindsight, the 3 calipers lost braking force when the pads still had about 1/4 pad thickness left, as well as they started to leak around the seals.
Since then, I have installed my 2 remaining failed calipers (One has had new Hope 16mm seals installed and is back in service.) on a bench front-brake set up I put together. After these calipers had new pads installed, and the pistons retracted back into the calibers, and they sat for a few weeks, The 2 calipers are working again with the original seals and no leaks.
Just fishing to see if anyone else has had similar experiences, and what they have done to investigate.
hi, just wondering, what is the thickness of the rotors you're using? because on the 4 piston hope clones, the spacing between the two inner sides of the caliper is unusually wide at 11.6mm instead of the standard 11mm for most brands. these ones are from frogwake, but the caliper shell is the same as IIIPro/Zrace, the only differences are the pistons and caps. all of these shells use the same functional dimensions with only minor differences, like bleed ports, and banjos. As such, it's reasonable to assume that they would need a ~0.6mm thicker rotor than a standard caliper, which we can assume uses a 1.8mm rotor with 11mm of spacing. from what i've seen and experienced, these always have a very long dead stroke out of the box (which you can eliminate by pumping the brakes without a rotor to bring the pistons in), which could be because of that extra space. as such, i'd run these with 2.3mm rotors only, with a thinner rotor the pistons are very far out, and have little support. i think that's why they leak
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FredDias2018. Nice to see others looking into the versatility of these Chinese 4-piston calipers.
For a IIIPro E4 caliper, I have all of the critical dimensions measured and hand sketched out in a rough drawing. Base on the first caliper measurements I took, my number crunching supported that the IIIPro caliper is designed to run a 1.8mm wide rotor. Except, other calipers I measured do have a wider "B" width.
Then things became more complicated. I have on hand, 4 sets of IIIPro E4 brakes (8calipers) a new set of Hope Tech Duo E4 lever and calipers, a new set of Frog Wake brakes, and the new Wheeltop 4-piston calipers.
I took your picture of your caliper and added "A" and "B" to your measurements.
Then I measured these 2 dimensions on some of the calipers I have off of bikes right now.
Brand A B
hope Tech Duo 3.6mm 11.75mm
IIIPro E4 (1) 4.0mm 11.2mm
IIIPro E4 (2) 4.0mm 11.36mm
IIIPro E4 (3) 4.0mm 11.38mm
IIIPro E4 (4) 4.0mm 11.5mm
Frog Wake 4.25mm 11.6mm
Wheeltop 4mm 11.5mm
I need to make a better drawing of the housing bores and dimensions I measured so everyone can see how the measurements relate to rotor thickness and pad clearances.
I will be using a 2.3mm wide rotor with the Hope Tech E4 calipers, but based on my current "gut feel", I think that these Chinese versions of the E-4 based calipers could run 2.0mm wide rotors, but 2.3mm wide rotors might lead to the pads rubbing, and make the calipers very sensitive to any non-parallelism between the pads and rotor.
As soon as some Dot5.1 compatible 16mm Square o-rings arrive, I will attempt to get a IIIPro caliper to work and fit one on a 2.3 rotor and use the Hope Tech lever
to actuate a IIIPro E4 caliper filled with DOT 5.1 fluid.
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FredDias2018. Nice to see others looking into the versatility of these Chinese 4-piston calipers.
For a IIIPro E4 caliper, I have all of the critical dimensions measured and hand sketched out in a rough drawing. Base on the first caliper measurements I took, my number crunching supported that the IIIPro caliper is designed to run a 1.8mm wide rotor. Except, other calipers I measured do have a wider "B" width.
Then things became more complicated. I have on hand, 4 sets of IIIPro E4 brakes (8calipers) a new set of Hope Tech Duo E4 lever and calipers, a new set of Frog Wake brakes, and the new Wheeltop 4-piston calipers.
I took your picture of your caliper and added "A" and "B" to your measurements.
Then I measured these 2 dimensions on some of the calipers I have off of bikes right now.
Brand A B
hope Tech Duo 3.6mm 11.75mm
IIIPro E4 (1) 4.0mm 11.2mm
IIIPro E4 (2) 4.0mm 11.36mm
IIIPro E4 (3) 4.0mm 11.38mm
IIIPro E4 (4) 4.0mm 11.5mm
Frog Wake 4.25mm 11.6mm
Wheeltop 4mm 11.5mm
I need to make a better drawing of the housing bores and dimensions I measured so everyone can see how the measurements relate to rotor thickness and pad clearances.
I will be using a 2.3mm wide rotor with the Hope Tech E4 calipers, but based on my current "gut feel", I think that these Chinese versions of the E-4 based calipers could run 2.0mm wide rotors, but 2.3mm wide rotors might lead to the pads rubbing, and make the calipers very sensitive to any non-parallelism between the pads and rotor.
As soon as some Dot5.1 compatible 16mm Square o-rings arrive, I will attempt to get a IIIPro caliper to work and fit one on a 2.3 rotor and use the Hope Tech lever
to actuate a IIIPro E4 caliper filled with DOT 5.1 fluid.
interesting. also, will you get a brand new hope tech lever? because if it comes dry from the factory you can just run them on mineral oil with zero problems, in fact, i've found that it even seems to make it last longer because of the seals and stuff
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interesting. also, will you get a brand new hope tech lever? because if it comes dry from the factory you can just run them on mineral oil with zero problems, in fact, i've found that it even seems to make it last longer because of the seals and stuff
I purchased a Hope Tech Duo brake set. This is a RH unit with 2 levers built into it. It arrived with both the front and rear calipers and hoses already attached and filled with brake fluid..
I want the Duo levers to be able to eventually run 2 calipers in back, one of the stock Hope E4 calipers, and then test 2nd calipers using the other lever. (This is part of the reason, I am interested in what width rotors I can run and/or use in order to fit both a Hope E4 caliper and other Chinese brands of 4-piston calipers.)
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I will be using a 2.3mm wide rotor with the Hope Tech E4 calipers, but based on my current "gut feel", I think that these Chinese versions of the E-4 based calipers could run 2.0mm wide rotors, but 2.3mm wide rotors might lead to the pads rubbing, and make the calipers very sensitive to any non-parallelism between the pads and rotor.
I've tried ZTTO 2.3mm Rotors on both the R2X4 and the Speedone Solider (E4). It works without rubbing and since those rotos dont bend easily it will stay like that. But keep in mind that setup will be more difficult and you should definetly reset your pistons before that. Magura Brakes have serious problems with rubbing on those disc rotors and for shimano i had to let out a little bit of oil. Hope Tech 4 V4 had no problems at all.
My R2X4 is still not leaking btw. not sure if im just lucky.
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I've tried ZTTO 2.3mm Rotors on both the R2X4 and the Speedone Solider (E4). It works without rubbing and since those rotos dont bend easily it will stay like that. But keep in mind that setup will be more difficult and you should definetly reset your pistons before that. Magura Brakes have serious problems with rubbing on those disc rotors and for shimano i had to let out a little bit of oil. Hope Tech 4 V4 had no problems at all.
My R2X4 is still not leaking btw. not sure if im just lucky.
if things start to leak around the barb i usually just use vaseline to seal it. works on shimano, so it would probably work on these olive-less brakes too 8)
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I've tried ZTTO 2.3mm Rotors on both the R2X4 and the Speedone Solider (E4). It works without rubbing and since those rotos dont bend easily it will stay like that. But keep in mind that setup will be more difficult and you should definetly reset your pistons before that. Magura Brakes have serious problems with rubbing on those disc rotors and for shimano i had to let out a little bit of oil. Hope Tech 4 V4 had no problems at all.
My R2X4 is still not leaking btw. not sure if im just lucky.
I have one of those rotors on a shigura mt5 brake as a front on my trail bike. No rubbing though I haven't been riding much but i remember thinking it was lacking for power the last time I used that bike. Could be anything though.
Also managed to warp the one I had on the rear :)
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I have my new Hope Tech Duo E4 lever set and calipers installed, bled and aligned on the hardtail I use for many of my bikepacking trips. Installation took longer than expected, bleeding the Hope brakes was straight forward, and the calipers felt firm in shorter time than any of my rear IIIPro calipers.
Alignment of the upper caliper so it wouldn't rub the rotor took forever!, and required some filing of the 2-caliper Mtb bracket surfaces. Seemed like a slight twist on the upper bracket arm prevented the pads from being parallel to the rotor. Pics show the set up. With all of the recent rain, and atmospheric river passing though our region, I wont road test the brake on the road for a while.
On a side note: the Dot5.1 compatible 16mm square o-rings arrived. I installed them in a IIIPro E4 caliper, and am working on putting the caliper back together.
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What makes you want so much rear brake power?
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What makes you want so much rear brake power?
It's not that I want so much power, it is that I want to have one reliable rear brake at all times. I have had way too many problems with my IIIPro rear brake system. I have had 3 complete rear brake failures out of 8 bikepacking trips since I started using the IIIPro brakes. I plan to install one IIIPro rear caliper (and other brands) to test and compare with the Hope Tech E4 caliper, assuming I can get other brand Chinese calipers to operate on 2.3mm wide rotors, and rebuild them/replace their seals, to EPDM compound, so they are compatible with Dot 5.1 brake fluid, rather than mineral oil.
I suspect that my caliper tests will prove that the IIIPro hydraulic piston/levers assembly is the root cause of these brake failures.
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I'm not sure I see the point if you're having to change the seals. If you can't change the seals in the IIIpro levers to work with DOT fluid does it mater if you can make the callipers work with different seals? In the UK Shimano callipers have by far the worst reputation for micro leaking. Is that a function of using mineral oil?
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I'm not sure I see the point if you're having to change the seals. If you can't change the seals in the IIIpro levers to work with DOT fluid does it mater if you can make the callipers work with different seals? In the UK Shimano callipers have by far the worst reputation for micro leaking. Is that a function of using mineral oil?
I consider the Hope Tech E4 caliper to be the baseline popular design for numerous variations of Chinese 4-piston, 16mm diameter calipers. Replacement Hope E4 calipers cost between $100 and $150 per Caliper. The Chinese versions cost up to $50 per caliper. If I can test calipers such as IIIPro E4, Frog Wake, ONIRII IV4R. Wheeltop E4, or the Peerage calipers these could be great replacements for the Hope calipers. (About $30 in replacement seals if one decides to run with a Hope Tech 3 or 4 brake lever assembly)
Of course I am not going to try to find EDPM seals to install in any of the Chinese brand hydraulic lever sets I have purchased and try to run Dot5.1.
I will be running testing out the recent Frog Wake and Wheeltop brakes on different bikes spring of 2026. Top date, I believe that the IIIPro levers are the problem with my rear brake problems.
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I'm not sure I see the point if you're having to change the seals. If you can't change the seals in the IIIpro levers to work with DOT fluid does it mater if you can make the callipers work with different seals? In the UK Shimano callipers have by far the worst reputation for micro leaking. Is that a function of using mineral oil?
At least spare parts are easy to find. I have some leaking TRP slate callipers and TRP told me to buy new brakes rather then sell me replacement seals or even give me the dimensions of the seal so i could source my own replacements.
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I have a bit of on update on my brake testing project. A month+ ago I purchased a set of Hope Tech Duo (RH Dual lever assembly and 2 E-4 calipers.) For testing, I mounted a modified Aliexpress dual rear caliper holder along with a 203mm rotor and both Hope Tech E4 calipers. I have been able to get in 2 shorter test rides. Hope Tech uses DOT5.1 fluid, the assembly and calipers bled so much easier and faster than the IIIPro rear calipers.
When I started the project, I ordered EDPM 16mm square O-rings and EDPM round o-rings to be able to rebuild several of the IIIPro calipers to be compatible with the DOT5.1 fluid.
Today I rebuilt one of my IIIPro calipers with the EDPM seals.
Back in early December 2025, I ordered several NFOX brake line unions, so I will be able to swap to different calipers faster and easier.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256810011225058.html
Unfortunately, the original order has had no delivery progress since Dec. 19th, 2025 and appears to be lost after leaving US customs. (Refund request to be made soon.) Therefore during the latest January sales, I order some new ones.
When these arrive, I will be able to test a IIIPro caliper on the Hope Tech levers. My thoughts are that this might make a decent system to save some money if I can test and figure out what variations of the Chinese E4 caliper could work with Hope Tech levers.
OTOH, If I want to spend bigger dollars, I could rebuild the Hope E4 calipers to be compatible with Mineral oil. I have spare seals to do this. Then I could try Hope Tech calipers with some of the Chinese lever/hydraulics that are available.
So many mix and match possibilities.
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Update. Since the weather has been unseasonably warm and all of the snow has melted, I have been able to get out and test ride the brakes.
After test riding the Hope Tech E4 calipers for about 40 miles, I decided to install the IIIPro caliper that I rebuilt to run DOT brake fluid.
During the installation, I noticed that the dual caliper bracket was bending despite my reinforcement, so I had to machine and install an angle section onto the bracket.
Note: The dual brake caliper bracket is very weak and I personally believe that it should be removed from being sold to the public as a safety issue. The names it is being sold under are TTPro and ATEWINA.
I installed the IIIPro caliper, centered it, and then bled the brake.
Note: The IIIPro calipers really are difficult to get all of the bubbles removed. It takes at least 3X the time to coax all of the air bubbles out versus the Hope E4 caliper.
It went on a test ride and at first the brake appeared to stop the same as the Hope E4 caliper. Then about 1/2way down a 1+ mile descent, the brake completely failed. (100% why I am glad I am running a dual ear caliper for testing.)
Back home, I removed the IIIPro caliper. It appears that one of the seals I installed was leaking. I removed the caliper and replaced the seal with a new one.
After going through the bleed process, I worked the brake with a test block installed at least 100 times. No leaks so far.
The bike is ready for the next test run.
Observations: I am incrementally becoming more methodical setting up the 2 rear calipers. After the last installation of the IIIPro, the caliper was really dragging on the rotor. I ended up using feeler gauges to measure the pad clearance on both sides of the rotor. The HOPE E4s require 2.3mm wide rotors, the IIIPro normally run 1.8 wide rotors. With the Hope E4 caliper pistons pushed back, I had 0.3mm of pad clearance. On the IIIPro calipers, the clearance was .15mm - With the pads being so close to the rotor it took a lot of time to gradually tighten down the mounting bolts in order to keep the pads parallel to the rotor. (PITA, such that it took 5 iterations of aligning, tapping, tightening, loosening to get the pads parallel.)
Out for the next test ride tomorrow.
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short update on the speedone soldier which is basically an E4 with ceramic piston. I had the bike stored for the winter and the brakes lost all the pressure without leaking? dont know how that works but they dont bite anymore and since bleeding them absolutely sucks i swapped them for some cheap shimano 4-pistons which where also stored in the same room for over a year and they still work.
The R2X4 still work very well tough the brake pads you get with them suck.
I would not recommend these brakes and im not gonna use them anymore since they seem to be unrealiable.
Ill keep using the R2X4 until they brake aswell which they will problably do at some point.
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Sounding more and more like cheap shimanos are a better bet. Deore 6100 or BR520s, both of which can be found pretty cheap on Ali.
Biggest problem I have with them is hate the ways shimano's levers look. Much prefer TRP evos or even Srams lever aesthetics to shimanos weird angle tube thing.
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i really like the way those brakes look but i just cannot recommend them to anyone.
Not the E4 and i suspect the R2X4 to somehow break once the bikepark season begins. I'll update you on how that goes.
At least in germany you can get deals on Shimano MT200 sets for 25-40€ and MT500 for 80
sure they look like shit but they work and getting replacement olives and pins will cost you almost nothing. even you lokal bikeshop will have those.
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Looks like my attempt to use one of my IIIPro E4 calipers mated to a Hope Tech hydraulic lever has come to a close. The rear caliper, rebuilt with Dot5.1 seals, worked for perhaps 30 miles of downhill stopping. Then several days ago, I went to ride the bike and the rear lever pulled all the way to the bars, and the calipers didn't move/grip the rotor. I said "screw it", I am done with piddling around with them! I installed the Hope Tech E4 caliper, bled the brake, and will run only these on the back of this bike.
- When I discovered the lever had no action, removed the caliper, inspection of the caliper revealed no leaks or fluid in any of the fittings or the seals. Basically, my final judgement is that the IIIPro E4 brakes SUCK!
As a side note, I still have the same IIIPro calipers on 2 other lesser ridden bikes. As they fail, (and I expect them to) I will migrate to a different brand of brakes.
My trust in IIIPro brakes has dropped well below the most recent polls regarding the effectiveness of POTUS.
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Has anyone had a bad experience with the XG4 flat mount calipers only? It seems all bad reviews are about the MTB levers or directmount brakes.. I could get them locally for a very good price, I'm tempted
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Has anyone had a bad experience with the XG4 flat mount calipers only? It seems all bad reviews are about the MTB levers or directmount brakes.. I could get them locally for a very good price, I'm tempted
Looking as the images of the XG4 flat mount calipers, it appears to me that the functional part of the caliper is exactly the same design as the E4s. Same outside caliper caps, same 16mm pistons and seals, same pads. I doubt if they will last/pertform any differently than the E4s.
Believe me, I would love to have someone write that they have had a great experience with this 4-piston design, and prove me wrong regarding their longevity.
For me, when they start out new, all of my E4 calipers had great stopping power. They do have more drag on the rotors versus my Hope Tech E4 calipers, and it seems to me that after you replace the first set of pads, they start to degrade. - Perhaps air being drawn across the seals into the caliper? Who knows. Since I have 4 out of 8 calipers that I can no longer to get working or bled well enough to get good lever feel, I gave up.