Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: patliean1 on December 05, 2024, 09:35:39 AM
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Not much info as of right now. And TanTan's website is currently down.
They seems to be on a roll with their latest clones. Thankfully this "interpolation" of the SuperSix EVO doesn't have bus like aerodynamics.
Instagram
https://www.instagram.com/p/DDMKHifu9q_/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== (https://www.instagram.com/p/DDMKHifu9q_/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==)
YouTube: TT-X69 New
https://youtu.be/W0N2F6Cz9xQ?si=QAXM0y3aPlRExVaJ (https://youtu.be/W0N2F6Cz9xQ?si=QAXM0y3aPlRExVaJ)
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It looks like another seller is trending towards fakes. I find this to be rather tragic, but it's not surprising as it seems to be what people want as the market splits into actual high-end frames from China and low-end fakes.
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My prediction towards future market trends is
-Flagship spec Western bikes will remain constant and recession proof. If you have $9,000 to $14,000 to waste, you really aren't looking at more value focused alternatives.
-"Middle ground" bikes in relation to their more expensive SLR/S-Works/Lab71 counterparts will continue to lose market share in favor of premium Chinese brands. Tavelo, Winspace, SEKA, and Yoeleo will slowly replace SL/Expert level bikes in the next 5 years. Multiple American pro crit teams already race on Winspace/Tavelo frames. And Winspace is currently the title sponsor for their world tour-level women's program.
-Legitimate OEM factories pumping out more clone/homage frames. Like @Sakizashi said, these companies are simply following customer trends and demands. I don't really endorse fakes but I'd rather buy one from a factory than a dodgy AliExpress dealer. And honestly I'd take this SS Evo clone from TanTan over their SL8. Visually this frame has a far better chance of actually being stiff and robust than that SL8 clone.
If the square downtube on the LC017 bothers you, although the aerodynamic myths have kind of been busted, this X69 might be a better alternative. The paint quality wont be as good but will be cheap and probably ride the same ;D
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I don't mind taking ideas, but just straight copying is :(
Mildly surprised they went all the way and did a delta steerer.
Not sure which myths you think were busted
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The Light carbon frame is still 250g lighter if that matters to you xD.
As for the price, I found TanTan and Light carbon to be in the same ballpark, maybe I get too expensive offers from TanTan xD
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the bottom bracket shell and the horizontal stays are not very beautiful
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the bottom bracket shell and the horizontal stays are not very beautiful
Unfortunately true. Hard to spiff these parts uo. Looks ugly
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Do they even have Cannondale logo? What the...?
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Mildly surprised they went all the way and did a delta steerer.
Yes, I was surprised to see this, too. I'd hope that they would at least simplify some of the unnecessarily proprietary aspects of frames like these. Like they did with the TT-X38 when they chose not to copy Scott's 1inch fork steerer and go with a regular design instead. But I guess when they do a clone, they just go all the way.
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-"Middle ground" bikes in relation to their more expensive SLR/S-Works/Lab71 counterparts will continue to lose market share in favor of premium Chinese brands. Tavelo, Winspace, SEKA, and Yoeleo will slowly replace SL/Expert level bikes in the next 5 years. Multiple American pro crit teams already race on Winspace/Tavelo frames. And Winspace is currently the title sponsor for their world tour-level women's program.
+1 on that. I mean it's been happening already. Canyon had 3 tiers of Aeroads 2 iterations ago, IIRC. You had the CF version in two specs: a low spec mechanical version and a higher spec version with electronic shifting + the highest spec CF SLX frames with top spec components.
That's now been rebranded and moved up the spec/price ladder one step. There's now only the CF SLX and CFR frames which are (allegedly) even higher in spec than what used to be the top spec frame material. The lowest spec Aeroad used to have a separate bar and stem. In the age of fully integrated cables, the bike is now only available with a one piece cockpit and electronic shifting. What used to be the 2nd tier bike at roughly 4-5000 USD/EUR is now the entry level for this model. For that money, you could obviously build a Tavelo/Winspace etc with at least similar or superior spec components and customize fit in the process.
It seems the lower end market now more or less belongs solely to Chines D2C sellers. Either you buy an open mold or a straight up clone. But the established brands don't really offer anything at this price point. Except for aluminium frames maybe.
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Interesting, but with being more than 1kg weight unfortunatly out for me.. and the delta steerer just kills it..
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Of all the road frames I've ever built and reviewed only two have came under 1000g for a size 56:
Tarmac SL8 Pro - 827g
Winspace SLC3 - 829g
I'd call myself a moderate weight weenie. But writing off a $600 frame because it doesn't weigh sub-1000g is concerning. Especially for an aero/all-around frameset. Irrespective of that delta steer tube.
I actually prefer my cheap frames to be around 1000-1100g anyway. It's a built-in insurance policy from the brands just in case I sprint or crash, the frame doesn't catastrophically explode underneath me.
Light, stiff, cheap. Pick two...but you can't have all three.
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Of all the road frames I've ever built and reviewed only two have came under 1000g for a size 56:
Tarmac SL8 Pro - 827g
Winspace SLC3 - 829g
I'd call myself a moderate weight weenie. But writing off a $600 frame because it doesn't weigh sub-1000g is concerning. Especially for an aero/all-around frameset. Irrespective of that delta steer tube.
I actually prefer my cheap frames to be around 1000-1100g anyway. It's a built-in insurance policy from the brands just in case I sprint or crash, the frame doesn't catastrophically explode underneath me.
Light, stiff, cheap. Pick two...but you can't have all three.
I'm totally on board with you and I'm sure it's a good frameset, it's just that I want a new frame that's lighter and maybe more aero than my Tarmac SL6 copy from Delihea. And I just think this frame isn't the one for that purpose. I think for m purpose either the LCR 17 or the Tantan X68 or the new announced X67 are the ones to go
The deal breaker for me in the end is the delta steered
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-Legitimate OEM factories pumping out more clone/homage frames. Like @Sakizashi said, these companies are simply following customer trends and demands. I don't really endorse fakes but I'd rather buy one from a factory than a dodgy AliExpress dealer. And honestly I'd take this SS Evo clone from TanTan over their SL8. Visually this frame has a far better chance of actually being stiff and robust than that SL8 clone.
Given my stance in previous threads, I obviously harbor deep disdain for homages and copies. However, there is one aspect that really bothers me that has little do with protection or counterfeiting; it's the assumption that buying these from a "better" source or one that's made more cleanly will result in a product that's closer to the original in terms of performance and reliability.
One of the big problems with copying a high-performance frame is that the originals fly close to the sun with their designs because they need to try and get that performance edge. I know most people aren't using their bikes in race conditions, but they don't have access to WT or pro team quality mechanics as frequently as racers, either. Remember that the Factor Ostro VAM had a few broken steerers, the Dogma F a lot of cracked chain stays and seat tubes, the SL7 had an infamous recall. On the Cannondales, the pro teams are gluing in expander plugs to resolve headset compression issues and not using the top-spec frames.
Do you really want 1:1 look-alike copies of these designs made with different materials and layups?
If you check the threads on the copies it seems like many of the copies suffer from the same issues at a higher rate + get the regular issues with low cost frames in terms of poor headsets and inability to hold preloads which is yet another issue.
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Of all the road frames I've ever built and reviewed only two have came under 1000g for a size 56:
Tarmac SL8 Pro - 827g
Winspace SLC3 - 829g
I'd call myself a moderate weight weenie. But writing off a $600 frame because it doesn't weigh sub-1000g is concerning. Especially for an aero/all-around frameset. Irrespective of that delta steer tube.
I actually prefer my cheap frames to be around 1000-1100g anyway. It's a built-in insurance policy from the brands just in case I sprint or crash, the frame doesn't catastrophically explode underneath me.
Light, stiff, cheap. Pick two...but you can't have all three.
Time for a "go fund me" on the TT-X68 for review.
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I still have my TanTan x38 frameset (Scott Foil RC clone) sitting in a box that I disassembled over a year ago.
Size 56 weighed a whopping 1148g and was stiff enough. The problem was dynamically the back end was pretty sloppy and easily disrupted over rough pavement. But I was kind of speedily rushing through bike builds two summer ago. Perhaps I'll rebuild and give it another shot next season.
Having used the same wheels on x38 as my Giant Propel, the Propel is quite stiff too. But in a way that's just more agreeable dynamically. This is my fear with the TanTan x68 (SL8). Past trends will almost always predict future trends. In the case, marginal disappointment.
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Well if you look at the Instagram and the post for this frame looking at this photo they have posted do they manufacture for Cannondale. https://www.instagram.com/p/DDOvo63v2at/
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Well if you look at the Instagram and the post for this frame looking at this photo they have posted do they manufacture for Cannondale. https://www.instagram.com/p/DDOvo63v2at/
Or they could be having a Cannondale for cloning....
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I posted the same picture. I think it's hardware from the original Cannondale frame.
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Well the bike is 1ond 1 and they have even used the same material in the steerer tube looks like dyneema reinforcement. Why go to all the at trouble for a counterfeit frame.
Likely these frames are the same as Tan Tan are an OEM and well this is not a frame from some random seller on AliExpress
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Well the bike is 1ond 1 and they have even used the same material in the steerer tube looks like dyneema reinforcement. Why go to all the at trouble for a counterfeit frame.
Likely these frames are the same as Tan Tan are an OEM and well this is not a frame from some random seller on AliExpress
I don't think Tan Tan is the OEM for Cannondale or any PON group company. This is just a counterfeit frame with counterfeit accessories.
Topkey would be the Taiwanese-owned company you are looking for.
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Well the bike is 1ond 1 and they have even used the same material in the steerer tube looks like dyneema reinforcement. Why go to all the at trouble for a counterfeit frame.
Likely these frames are the same as Tan Tan are an OEM and well this is not a frame from some random seller on AliExpress
LOL nope. If they would be OEM for this frame they will never sell it public. Even Chinese are not doing that these days.
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Well the bike is 1ond 1 and they have even used the same material in the steerer tube looks like dyneema reinforcement. Why go to all the at trouble for a counterfeit frame.
Likely these frames are the same as Tan Tan are an OEM and well this is not a frame from some random seller on AliExpress
Really hate it when resellers called clone or fake frames "OEM", which really have a totally different meanings....
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LOL nope. If they would be OEM for this frame they will never sell it public. Even Chinese are not doing that these days.
Yup. TanTan wouldn’t jeopardize a large contract and relationship with Cannondale just to sell a few $600 frames with small margins.
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The Light carbon frame is still 250g lighter if that matters to you xD.
As for the price, I found TanTan and Light carbon to be in the same ballpark, maybe I get too expensive offers from TanTan xD
Is it ? I thought TanTan was lighter at 840gm
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They're obviously aiming at the branded counterfeit market with this, as they retained the insane (if you're not a brand looking for proprietary lock-in) D-shaped steerer and even the kevlar reinforcement braid. Also, so much for these producers all saying that kevlar reinforced headtubes are too expensive for the prices consumers are generally willing to pay ::)
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They're obviously aiming at the branded counterfeit market with this, as they retained the insane (if you're not a brand looking for proprietary lock-in) D-shaped steerer and even the kevlar reinforcement braid. Also, so much for these producers all saying that kevlar reinforced headtubes are too expensive for the prices consumers are generally willing to pay ::)
I didn't realize it, but surfing on some FB bike groups, there seems to be a huge interest in counterfeit framesets. I don't get the appeal, are these cyclists so insecure not to have branded bikes while on the coffee group ride? On top of that, it makes me suspicious of any used branded frameset on the usual marketplaces. ::)
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Is it ? I thought TanTan was lighter at 840gm
LC at 870g, TanTan at 1096g. The TT-X68 is 836g.
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LC at 870g, TanTan at 1096g. The TT-X68 is 836g.
Isn't TanTan = TT-X68 ? Do I have to specifically mention the weight or is it assumed ?
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Isn't TanTan = TT-X68 ? Do I have to specifically mention the weight or is it assumed ?
TT-X68 is the SL8 replica
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Isn't TanTan = TT-X68 ? Do I have to specifically mention the weight or is it assumed ?
The frame we are speaking of is the TT-X69.
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The frame we are speaking of is the TT-X69.
OK, Thanks. I thought I read TT-X69 was 840gm, guess I was mistaken.
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Hi
How can I get a quotation from TanTan Sports?
https://taiwaneisen.cc/product/cannondale-supersix-lab71-2/ (https://taiwaneisen.cc/product/cannondale-supersix-lab71-2/)
This website sells the same Frameset?
Regards.
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Hi
How can I get a quotation from TanTan Sports?
Here's the link to TanTan: http://tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=1171
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Hi
How can I get a quotation from TanTan Sports?
https://taiwaneisen.cc/product/cannondale-supersix-lab71-2/ (https://taiwaneisen.cc/product/cannondale-supersix-lab71-2/)
This website sells the same Frameset?
Regards.
Taiwaneisen has NOTHING to do with TanTan.
For Tantan, either go to Seraph or mail TanTan
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Taiwaneisen has NOTHING to do with TanTan.
For Tantan, either go to Seraph or mail TanTan
I think the chance that they're both doing the same steerer as the original product, including the kevlar braid, but from two different factories, is close to zero.
They're almost certainly using the same factory for the fork at the very least. Frame may indeed be different factories. I think this is the same 'Taiwanese' (probably nothing to do with Taiwan at this point) clone seller with loads of shopfronts on AliExpress. The quality of their frames is usually significantly higher than TanTan.
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The quality of their frames is usually significantly higher than TanTan.
Interesting. Good to know yo...
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They're almost certainly using the same factory for the fork at the very least. Frame may indeed be different factories. I think this is the same 'Taiwanese' (probably nothing to do with Taiwan at this point) clone seller with loads of shopfronts on AliExpress. The quality of their frames is usually significantly higher than TanTan.
Thanks…
Then safer to buy "Taiwanese" product?
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I think the chance that they're both doing the same steerer as the original product, including the kevlar braid, but from two different factories, is close to zero.
They're almost certainly using the same factory for the fork at the very least. Frame may indeed be different factories. I think this is the same 'Taiwanese' (probably nothing to do with Taiwan at this point) clone seller with loads of shopfronts on AliExpress. The quality of their frames is usually significantly higher than TanTan.
Interested what store/stores you're mentioning? If it's faux pas could you PM me it? The higher quality than TanTan has me intrigued.
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It's mostly their stuff in the Fauxstro thread. There you can pay for low, mid or high tier frame (% of high mod carbon used increases and weight decreases). Most of their frames are like that. If that's not the case for the SSE clone then they're probably buying them in from somewhere other than their usual source, meaning there's no guarantee the frames will look anything like the Fauxstros or their other stuff or have the same quality.
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Any updates has anyone received there frame yet so some reviews photos would be great anyone know who else is selling these D me.
Thanks
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It's mostly their stuff in the Fauxstro thread. There you can pay for low, mid or high tier frame (% of high mod carbon used increases and weight decreases). Most of their frames are like that. If that's not the case for the SSE clone then they're probably buying them in from somewhere other than their usual source, meaning there's no guarantee the frames will look anything like the Fauxstros or their other stuff or have the same quality.
I wonder how that statement can be validated, it sure seems that Tantan and Seraph are making very high quality and light framesets.
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I wonder how that statement can be validated, it sure seems that Tantan and Seraph are making very high quality and light framesets.
There have been loads of reports posted here of appalling quality and terrible or completely absent customer service. TT have always been a lottery. On average they're better than VB for example. But their quality is highly inconsistent, and nothing from them has ever looked like the stuff produced by the 'Taiwanese' seller's factory. If you receive a lemon, you shouldn't necessarily expect a replacement.
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There have been loads of reports posted here of appalling quality and terrible or completely absent customer service. TT have always been a lottery. On average they're better than VB for example. But their quality is highly inconsistent, and nothing from them has ever looked like the stuff produced by the 'Taiwanese' seller's factory. If you receive a lemon, you shouldn't necessarily expect a replacement.
Ok that good info, as someone relatively new this form I keep hearing about these so called Taiwanese sellers, has anyone a link I can go to or a product page? I'm assuming these are Ali Express traders/seller as opposed to OEM/ODM manufacturers
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Ok that good info, as someone relatively new this form I keep hearing about these so called Taiwanese sellers, has anyone a link I can go to or a product page? I'm assuming these are Ali Express traders/seller as opposed to OEM/ODM manufacturers
Here is their official site: https://taiwaneisen.cc
They have direct copies of most of the current western frames
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Btw it's "Taiwan Eisen" not "Taiwanese(en)"
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Here is their official site: https://taiwaneisen.cc
They have direct copies of most of the current western frames
Ok thanks and they are on Aliexpress.
Obviously this has been done a million times but what's people opinions of them? I'm assuming its a mixed bag!
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I think the chance that they're both doing the same steerer as the original product, including the kevlar braid, but from two different factories, is close to zero.
They're almost certainly using the same factory for the fork at the very least. Frame may indeed be different factories. I think this is the same 'Taiwanese' (probably nothing to do with Taiwan at this point) clone seller with loads of shopfronts on AliExpress. The quality of their frames is usually significantly higher than TanTan.
Just curious if you have actually compared the two side by side ?
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Just curious if you have actually compared the two side by side ?
Not side by side, but I saw one of the supposedly Taiwanese frames from this seller, a Cipollini copy, a couple of years ago. It was significantly cleaner inside than Factor and Cervelo stuff the dealer who was servicing it had. Most of the stuff in the Fauxstro thread looks decent. I've seen TanTan stuff in the flesh a bunch of times. It's varied from OK to WTF.
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Btw it's "Taiwan Eisen" not "Taiwanese(en)"
So they're actually "(Western Mainland) Taiwan Eisen"? ;)
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Hi guys, I might be missing something with the geometry of this frame.
I'd expect it to be quite racey, but in size 56 I see 575 stack and 389 reach, that seem to be more to the upright/endurance side.
Is it so?
Or am I not considering some other key parameter?