Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: jonathanf2 on May 05, 2025, 01:01:24 AM
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Sensah (also known as Sentyeh or Shuntai) is getting ready to showcase their new electronic groupset. Not much info yet, but it should be on display at the Shanghai Bike Show this week. It's said to be a 14 speed groupset, but no word yet on other specs. I did find a CG renderings of the shifter and rear derailleur. ;)
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Thanks for sharing! Interesting to see the Chinese brands try to push the tech now in front of the established brands.
Just curious: where are you finding these infos?
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Looks nice :)
At 14 speeds a lot of people will be using this as 1-by...
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Damn I'll have to start thinking about my next project :-)
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The 14 sp thing has to be a marketing tagline, just like 3-14 sp from wheeltop. They just give you the ability to set that, but obviously, it will be primarily meant for what's currently out there. A 14 sp casette and chain with current standards would be absolutely awful, especially without direct mount udh.
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(https://i.ibb.co/DPPwWdq5/Image-20250505201429.png) (https://ibb.co/DPPwWdq5) (https://i.ibb.co/XGrSbB1/Image-20250505201500.png) (https://ibb.co/XGrSbB1) (https://i.ibb.co/fzbLys7d/Image-20250505201507.png) (https://ibb.co/fzbLys7d) (https://i.ibb.co/dw4RPnzg/Image-20250505201515.png) (https://ibb.co/dw4RPnzg) (https://i.ibb.co/B5vVwtTL/Image-20250505201520.png) (https://ibb.co/B5vVwtTL) (https://i.ibb.co/v691tvzY/Image-20250505201526.png) (https://ibb.co/v691tvzY) (https://i.ibb.co/ycd971jY/Image-20250505201535.png) (https://ibb.co/ycd971jY) (https://i.ibb.co/1JnNfq2p/Image-20250505201544.png) (https://ibb.co/1JnNfq2p) (https://i.ibb.co/twVmjdCV/Image-20250505202034.png) (https://ibb.co/twVmjdCV)
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46t max cog, and what looks like a clutch, this is definitely a 1x/gravel system. They have it set up 1x in Shanghai as well. Looks like they took once again took significant inspiration from sram in multiple places, which is w/e tbh. Still sceptical about the implementation of 14sp
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I have mostly only bad things to say about sensah mechanical 11s, but very curious about this.
Curious about your experience. I have three Sensah mechanical groupsets installed.
Two of them I do not ride a lot, a 1x on a monster cross project and a 2x11 on my indoor trainer.
Third one is a 2x12 on a Velobuild VB-R-099 that I have put miles on and I have to say it works quite well for mechanical disc.
I also like the shape of the hoods - so I am positive about Sensah.
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Few things are more irritating than a gravel ride with a FD that doesnt work properly.
Thats the reason why I really dont like 2-by on my gravel bikes.
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46t max cog, and what looks like a clutch, this is definitely a 1x/gravel system. They have it set up 1x in Shanghai as well. Looks like they took once again took significant inspiration from sram in multiple places, which is w/e tbh. Still sceptical about the implementation of 14sp
definitely looks like it would be aimed towards a budget red xplr
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The 14 sp thing has to be a marketing tagline, just like 3-14 sp from wheeltop. They just give you the ability to set that, but obviously, it will be primarily meant for what's currently out there. A 14 sp casette and chain with current standards would be absolutely awful, especially without direct mount udh.
Selectable cassette speed isn't a marketing tagline, it's basically a main feature over Shimano and SRAM. Being able to throw any speed cassette allows so much more freedom. I'm already running a mix of 11 and 12 speed groupsets with LTwoo electronic and can still use some of my older 10 speed cassettes if need be.
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Curious about your experience. I have three Sensah mechanical groupsets installed.
Two of them I do not ride a lot, a 1x on a monster cross project and a 2x11 on my indoor trainer.
Third one is a 2x12 on a Velobuild VB-R-099 that I have put miles on and I have to say it works quite well for mechanical disc.
I also like the shape of the hoods - so I am positive about Sensah.
I've built several bikes using Sensah shifters, though I opted to use the Team Pro shifters which are Shimano compatible. I actually like how the shifters work, mainly since you can shift smoothly into the big cogs while climbing. That's one advantage they have over Shimano shifting. I built a gravel bike for a family member using Team Pro shifters and LTwoo R9 front/rear derailleurs. That bike is still running smoothly with no issues. I hate LTwoo mechanical and Campy style shifting, there's no way to properly wrap your hand around the hoods especially for hard climbs or sprints.
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A few more photos of the shifter and derailleur in "exploded" view and another photo of the 14 speed cassette. Battery is confirmed removable, USB type-C charging and with a 1500km range (about 932mi). Launch date should be in the next 2 months. ;)
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A few more photos of the shifter and derailleur in "exploded" view and another photo of the 14 speed cassette. Battery is confirmed removable, USB type-C charging and with a 1500km range (about 932mi). Launch date should be in the next 2 months. ;)
Any word on possible cost?
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Selectable cassette speed isn't a marketing tagline, it's basically a main feature over Shimano and SRAM. Being able to throw any speed cassette allows so much more freedom. I'm already running a mix of 11 and 12 speed groupsets with LTwoo electronic and can still use some of my older 10 speed cassettes if need be.
don't play dumb, the 14 speed thing is a marketing tagline. I have simply no confidence it will be good in practive. The 3 speed thing is also a marketing tagline, nobody will be running that.
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Any word on possible cost?
I'll try and find out through my contact if they don't announce it. Ballpark estimate should be similar to Wheeltop and LTwoo groupsets.
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A somewhat fleeting look by Pandaman (China Cycling) from the Shanghai Bike Show (along with the usual assortment of the weird, wacky and wonderful):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb8y1Vp0md8 (groupset at 3:30)
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don't play dumb, the 14 speed thing is a marketing tagline. I have simply no confidence it will be good in practive. The 3 speed thing is also a marketing tagline, nobody will be running that.
Think outside the box. The applications for variable speed derailleurs go beyond just regular bikes. There are folding bikes, mini velos, commuters, cargo bikes, etc. that can benefit. A 3 speed cassette weighs less than 70g. A folding bike with no shift cables, 1x chainring and 3 speed cassette sounds pretty reasonable. If 14 speed cassettes are doable why not? No one is harping about SRAM going 13 speed, so what's the difference?
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Think outside the box. The applications for variable speed derailleurs go beyond just regular bikes. There are folding bikes, mini velos, commuters, cargo bikes, etc. that can benefit. A 3 speed cassette weighs less than 70g. A folding bike with no shift cables, 1x chainring and 3 speed cassette sounds pretty reasonable.
fine w/e
If 14 speed cassettes are doable why not? No one is harping about SRAM going 13 speed, so what's the difference?
because sram are using direct mount UDH to expand get enough room to fit an extra cog on the outer side of the cassette, WITHOUT AFFECTING THE DIMENSIONS OF THE REST OF THE CASSETTE. 12sp was done the same way, adding a cog to the inside of the cassette, but there is no more room to add another cog there, and even if you could, it would make chainlines even worse than they already are.
So in order to make 14sp cassette for this derailleur, you would have to fit 2 more cogs inside the same width as a 12sp cassette. In order to aciheve that you have to:
- Tighten the spacing between the cogs, which would make shifting performance much more sensitive to imperfections in setup and require thinner chain plates, which would negatively impact chain durability,
- Make the cogs narrower. The reduced volume of material negatively impacts durability and gives you less room to work with to shape shifting ramps and worsening shifting performance
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don't play dumb, the 14 speed thing is a marketing tagline. I have simply no confidence it will be good in practive. The 3 speed thing is also a marketing tagline, nobody will be running that.
Jonathan posted a picture of a 14 speed cassette above. I'm curious how this will work.
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fine w/e
because sram are using direct mount UDH to expand get enough room to fit an extra cog on the outer side of the cassette, WITHOUT AFFECTING THE DIMENSIONS OF THE REST OF THE CASSETTE. 12sp was done the same way, adding a cog to the inside of the cassette, but there is no more room to add another cog there, and even if you could, it would make chainlines even worse than they already are.
So in order to make 14sp cassette for this derailleur, you would have to fit 2 more cogs inside the same width as a 12sp cassette. In order to aciheve that you have to:
- Tighten the spacing between the cogs, which would make shifting performance much more sensitive to imperfections in setup and require thinner chain plates, which would negatively impact chain durability,
- Make the cogs narrower. The reduced volume of material negatively impacts durability and gives you less room to work with to shape shifting ramps and worsening shifting performance
To be fair, Campagnolo managed a 13 speed cassette which works just fine without needing UDH (even works with 12-speed flattop chains). Apparently there's already a wheeltop(?) 14-speed cassette sold on complete builds, which seems to work fine as well (however, I think using a proprietary freehub body and a narrower hub design).
Since owning one, I'm a huge fan of 1-by drivetrains on race bikes. Using a 13-speed cassette, I'm really not missing anything! Gear spacing is no issue (at least with my 13 speed setup), and lowest ans highest gears are spot on. If there's a new option for that, maybe even with 14 cogs, that would be great in my opinion!
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For gearing alone, 1 bike to do both road and gravel is going to do both poorly.
Preach! I feel like this is rarely considered in terms of 'one bike to do it all', it's that you have to compromise on gearing one way or the other. Obviously this is different for everyone's preferences with gearing, but like you, I have a strong preference for 1x on gravel, but feel like 2x is still the better choice for road (on 12 speed at least). I wouldn't particularly enjoy my 1x gravel gearing on the road bike (especially since I'm on the 10-50 12 speed cassette), and I definitely hated having 2x on a gravel bike.
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First ride impressions by Joe from China Cycling: https://youtu.be/M2u36guxPLg?si=IMA6_yOEokB5jPjt
Apart from his impression: Is it just me, or is the Chinese groupset market steering more and more in the direction of what are basically modified clones of the big groupset makers' products? Not judging, just observing. (I'm in no position to judge since I ride a Chinarello)
Ltwoo's hydraulic internals in the shifters are 1:1 copies of Campagnolo's braking system. This is also why the shaping of the hoods is at least remotely resemling Campy. I know, because I own both Campy Ekar and various Ltwoo hydro brifters, mechanical and electronic. Well, and their early mechanical stuff was a 1:1 Campy design clone as well.
Magene QED looks literally exactly like Shimano Di2. I mean you literally couldn't tell the brifters apart in a blind test I'm sure.
And now Sensah: They're not even trying to hide the fact that they're basically copying Sram's latest Red groupset. I mean the brifters and calipers are virtually identical. Sure, the cassette is different. But essentially they copied Sram Red and modified it.
It might just be a cultural thing? In China, copying is sort of honoring the genius of the original idea IIRC?
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Why didn't they just engineer the groupset around UDH?
I can't imagine Sram having a patent on the usage of their hanger in tandem with competing groupsets right? Right?
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The issue is that these Chinese electronic groupsets costs as much as the brand name ones (Shimano in my case). At least Shimano is tried and tested whereas you end up being a guinea pig for the Chinese groupsets and they take a few iterations to make it work flawlessly.
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Why didn't they just engineer the groupset around UDH?
I can't imagine Sram having a patent on the usage of their hanger in tandem with competing groupsets right? Right?
They did, if I understand it correctly. Joe mentioned that they made the hanger slightly thinner on the inside of the frame to cram another cog in. Which is actually the Lockring of the cassette. That’s a pretty cool and obvious idea.
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And now Sensah: They're not even trying to hide the fact that they're basically copying Sram's latest Red groupset. I mean the brifters and calipers are virtually identical. Sure, the cassette is different. But essentially they copied Sram Red and modified it.
It might just be a cultural thing? In China, copying is sort of honoring the genius of the original idea IIRC?
They could be "copying", but I think it also sort of makes sense that everyones engineering converges at some point. A brake caliper experiences the same forces regardless of the fact who developed it, if you want to make it lightweight then youll end up taking weight out of the same places. You could even say sram and campagnolo copied shimanos ideas for brifters and modified them and didnt stick to running downtube shifters, so some amount of copying is arguably good for the consumer in my opinion
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They could be "copying", but I think it also sort of makes sense that everyones engineering converges at some point.
Sure. But I’m not only talking about technology. I’m talking about the looks. The calipers and brifters look exactly the same between Sram/Sensah. But whatever. More options is always a good thing.
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They went with 14 speed because they think it'll get them a big immediate chunk of the domestic OEM market. Brands can market it as the first 14 speed and a significant subsection of new and information poor cyclists in China (many millions of people) will be easily swayed.
The idea it'll work as well as 11 or 12 speed is likely fanciful.
They claim it will be 14 speed only, but I'm sure this is not the case and they'll unlock software to use standard HG / normal hanger 12 speed setups at least - or they'll release the same thing rebranded with minimal changes for 11-12s. They just want all the talk to be about 14 speed for now.
Anyway, for the reasons they did this it's working very well. They'd virtually been forgotten in the electronic game .. now they're being talked about much more at the show, and online both in China and elsewhere, than WheelTop, LTWoo or even Magene (who look to have the most mature offering).
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Says who? The er9 is a fraction of the cost of Shimano 105 di2, if you buy it intelligently. And the consensus on here is to buy di2 if there is no price difference.
I keep trying to buy Shimano then when I try to actually get the spec I want, the pricing is just insulting and I buy another er9.
Says me. A FULL 105 Di2 groupset can be purchased for about US$800 if you wait for the special events. Whenever I have compared the cost of a Chinese electronic groupset and then add the additional cost of a crankset, chain cassette etc then it works out slightly more. Plus I have the comfort knowing that everything just works well together.
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Link of such a deal? :)
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Link of such a deal? :)
Found this within 30 sec of searching on Aliexpress, comes out to US$752 delivered with discount coupon but depending on where you are in the world, you may need to add taxes.
I just found this on AliExpress:
US $759.89 | Shimano 105 Di2 R7170 2x12 Speed Groupset Road Disc Brake Groupset
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqL89xv
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Found this within 30 sec of searching on Aliexpress, comes out to US$752 delivered with discount coupon but depending on where you are in the world, you may need to add taxes.
I just found this on AliExpress:
US $759.89 | Shimano 105 Di2 R7170 2x12 Speed Groupset Road Disc Brake Groupset
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mqL89xv
Shows up as $1,700 for me. But not deliverable to my location either way. Remember though. We’re winning.
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What and where can we find these discount coupons y’all talk about. I see that groupset listed for slightly over $1700. I see some discounts but nothing like $1000?
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Americans? Lol
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Ah right, I suspect you guys are in the US and need to factor in the Trump tax.
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Just on a side note, from what I gather talking to cyclists from China, they also have these same kind of discussions regarding domestic versus other groupsets (mainly Shimano). For example 105 Di2 is much more affordable in China (around $500-600 USD), with ample customer support, spare parts and proven design. Shimano is the bar that these domestic groupsets need to surpass. SRAM is barely a blip over there outside of mountain biking. I think Magene might have the most interest due to their development of power meters and other devices. The hope being they can have something of an Apple-esque bike integration platform with minimal issues. The cycling demographic there is quite young. They want solid products regardless of manufacturer, as one cyclist told me, "We're customers as well!"
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Shows up as $1,700 for me. But not deliverable to my location either way. Remember though. We’re winning.
750€ here. Problem is likely the customs
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I usually compare the Chinese groupset prices with the used market. Because when I buy on Aliexpress, chances are that customer support is patchy at best. Or that the product is simply not yet reliable enough (to my taste anyway). Which is exactly what my experience was with LTWOO er9. Customer Support was OK, thanks to 80 Designer Store. But I wasn’t convinced by the performance and reliability of the product. Bought it for roughly 450 EUR incl shipping and taxes. I bought a used Sram Rival mini groupset consisting of the same parts for roughly the same. It might have been 500 because I needed to source aftermarket batteries from Aliexpress. I’m much happier with how that performs.
Shimano 105 Di2 mini-groupset (minus cranks, cassette and rotors) bought with discounts at established online shops in Germany would have been around 700EUR at the time. Also not a bad options, but obviously more expensive.
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750€ here. Problem is likely the customs
Costums from China to EU country is almost 100% + VAT (depends on EU country)...
EU tarifs on China bycicles and components are BRUTAL!
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Anyone else feeling very disillusioned with chinese electronic groupsets? I had such high hopes they could make the perfect consumer friendly ecosystem with complete mix and match parts, replaceable batteries etc and adjustable gears. And instead there's always a major dealbreaker to me, either it's not a true mix and match and have incompatibilities, have weird standard bits, have subpar clearance, and the dumbest one yet being locked to 12 or 14 speeds. While not really being that competitively priced in the west compared to 105... I really hope the magene QED being locked to 12 speed is not true
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Anyone else feeling very disillusioned with chinese electronic groupsets? I had such high hopes they could make the perfect consumer friendly ecosystem with complete mix and match parts, replaceable batteries etc and adjustable gears. And instead there's always a major dealbreaker to me, either it's not a true mix and match and have incompatibilities, have weird standard bits, have subpar clearance, and the dumbest one yet being locked to 12 or 14 speeds. While not really being that competitively priced in the west compared to 105... I really hope the magene QED being locked to 12 speed is not true
So you expected Chinese electronic groupsets to be perfect, operating with no experience and tiny budgets (relative to Shimano & SRAM or even Campag)? Shimano and SRAM have been at it 20 years (15 in the case of SRAM), and stuff is far from perfect, and features are largely determined by what OEMs, and industry & internal politics / agendas dictate. Expecting the Chinese businesses to be free of those concerns is naive in the extreme.
Shimano and SRAM might sell at a 20:1 OEM to retail ratio, for their high end groupsets (much higher for lower end). Magene will probably be looking at an OEM to retail ratio of more than 50:1. They also have a great chance of taking a BIG chunk out of Shimano (and SRAM) in China, so will do everything they can to facilitate that .. including 'simplyifying' compatibility. Maybe they'll include 11s compatibility, but 10s won't happen and 13s would likely only be enabled later if and when SRAM and Shimano 13s hits a high market share.
Also the biggest issue with Chinese stuff has been software. Shimano's is garbage, and shows its 20 year old roots. SRAM's is adequate, to put it kindly.
And then there's the sea of ridiculously unworthy, broad patents - like SRAM's battery ones.
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So you expected Chinese electronic groupsets to be perfect, operating with no experience and tiny budgets (relative to Shimano & SRAM or even Campag)? Shimano and SRAM have been at it 20 years (15 in the case of SRAM), and stuff is far from perfect, and features are largely determined by what OEMs, and industry & internal politics / agendas dictate. Expecting the Chinese businesses to be free of those concerns is naive in the extreme.
Perfect? No, I never said that. Initial quirks to be ironed out were to be expected. I wanted them to be consumer friendly, which isn't a very high bar considering how scummy sram and shimano are. Individual gear adjustment, replaceable AA batteries (or whatever the seatpost uses), USB C charging, standard hose fittings etc... Not quite asking for open source software but this is where I think they should have absolutely excelled at. Running the drivetrain of your choice is a banger selling point for me
How can I take sensah seriously if they actually go ahead with that terrible software locked 14 speed?
I still have hopes for LTWOO and magene :-\
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Took a closer look at the cassette and this curbed my excitement a bit. Due to bad gear distribution it doesn't offer any meaningful advantage over the SRAM XPLR 13 speed cassette despite the extra gear.
From the screenshot cog sizes appear to be 10-11-12-13-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-36-40-46. Compared to the XPLR cassette that's only unhelpful finer increments in the lower gears.
So there's uselessly tight jumps in the lower gears - 32-36 (13%), 36-40 (11%) and annoyingly big jumps in the lower/mid part of the cassette - 13-15 (15%), 24-28 (17%).
For me this cassette doesn't seem very useful for road 1x.
The following would be better gear distributions (if possible spoke clearance-wise):
10-11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28-33-39-46 (SRAM 12 speed 10-33 cassette + 39-46)
10-11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-33-39-46
11-12-13-14-15-16-18-20-22-25-28-33-39-46 (there are UDH frames which only have clearance for up to a 46T 1x chainring, in this case some people would want a 10T cog)
10-11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-27-31-36-42 (for road 1x I wouldn't need more than about 400% range)
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In this context, I find the ekar 9-42 cassette very well suited for 1-by 13 speed road drivetrains!
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In this context, I find the ekar 9-42 cassette very well suited for 1-by 13 speed road drivetrains!
This, I think they have actually figured it out when it comes to 1x road drivetrains. When they launch WRL Ekar later that year that will probably gain some traction.
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In this context, I find the ekar 9-42 cassette very well suited for 1-by 13 speed road drivetrains!
My only problem with this is the 9 tooth, I'd rather go 10-46 for the same range
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in my experience, The 9T cog is not really an issue. I don't feel (!) any disadvantage in terms of efficiency. Although I'm using Powermeters on all bikes, it's hard to actually measure any differences in real world conditions...
Running 10-46 with a larger front chain ring would increase the gaps between gears (due to the larger front ring), which would be noticable...
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According to Trace Velo's visit at the Sentyeh Eurobike booth the cassette is a 10-45 (printed on the back) but the 13-15 jump is still there.
Groupset will be available in China from August, international release will be sometime end of 2025.
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I did hear they will only focus on 14speed, so no compatibility with 12sp or 13sp cassettes which is a bit a shame. :(
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LTwoo and Sensah don't really care about aftermarket customers like chinertown. This is a groupset for OEMs, so getting rid of adjustability with standard parts means it's less work for builders, less potential for something to go wrong because of software and firmwar and harder for the end user to fuck something up.
Sucks for us, but that's how it is.
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Also, question of chain durability. The internet says that starting with 11s chains, chains should be changed after 0.5% wear, not 0.75%. A 14s chain is going to be narrow AF, so it will probably last even less?
All of that sounds rather off-putting.
Joe from China Cycling said in his Shanghai Bike Show video they'd be using a "normal" (like Shimano / SRAM non-trransmission MTB?) 12 speed chain which they achieved by using a special thinner "classic" UDH derailleur hanger (you'll need a UDH frame).
So while this will provide extra cog space compared to SRAM 13 speed how do they ensure the derailleur hanger isn't extra easy to bend (given there is no additional "outer derailleur hanger plate thing" like on the 13 sp SRAM XPLR RDs)?
By the way, found a photo of the cassette on display at Eurobike. Looks quite a bit different from the one shown earlier this thread.
Cogs appear to be 10-11-12-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-28-33-39-45
Given the low stated part weights this groupset maybe isn't set to become the next bargain.
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Found something interesting on the otherwise outdated official https://www.sensahsmart.com/jszl (https://www.sensahsmart.com/jszl) website: You can download a "Sentyeh 2025" PDF catalogue.
Right on the first page you are presented with the new "SENTYEH EVE" which appears to be a 1x13 mechanical groupset with hydraulic brakes. Brifters and callipers look pretty chunky, derailleur has a massive lower pulley wheel and looks to be compatible with non-UDH dropouts.
Nothing on chain or rotors.
Cassette depicted is a 11-45 with once again a pretty nonsensical cog arrangement (11-12, followed by 2-tooth jumps all the way up to 28, 33-39-45). A good deal heavier than the stated weight for the ECS 14sp cassette.
Anyway, it's nowhere to be found (yet). Maybe China-only?
Edit: Found a "poor man's edition" on Aliexpress (Sensah Official Store): https://aliexpress.com/item/1005009120344056.html (https://aliexpress.com/item/1005009120344056.html).
Shifters and derailleur rebranded to "G13", old callipers, third party 48T crankset, YBN chain, even heavier 11-45 cassette, no rotors.
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This is what I saw at Eurobike, they told me to follow their official Aliexpress shop to know when it would be available... waiting patiently for two months now...
They had one in their booth, the cassette/derailleurs looked good and light, the shifters a bit bulky but nice, and they apparently can be set to any cassette speeds: 10, 11, 12, ....
It is definitely a groupset I will try when out.
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I want to be interested, but after the latest Magene drama and all the Ltwoo and wheeltop issues...
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Sensah was there before, if I remember well, and is a kind of better company. Isn't it?
Their mechanical groupset were quite good.
And their IIPRO MTB brakes are ok too. We'll see...
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I want to be interested, but after the latest Magene drama and all the Ltwoo and wheeltop issues...
I'm out of the loop, what's the Ltwoo issues?
I have two of their ER9 groupsets (Gen I and III). And only aware of the water ingress & Battery holder contact issues.
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I'm out of the loop, what's the Ltwoo issues?
I have two of their ER9 groupsets (Gen I and III). And only aware of the water ingress & Battery holder contact issues.
Just a generally high failure rate that's beyond what any sane customer would consider acceptable.
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Do you mean that Chinese software is better, or worse? Issue implies bad, right?
Because I'm actually super happy with the ltwoo software. The fact i can, with 1 click, choose the # of gears is wonderful (11s seems to be easier to calibrate and live with than 12s), and the app works super well. Gear protect to avoid cross chaining is awesome, and the suuuuuper fine adjustment of individual gears works wonders. Which, for anyone wondering about ER9/X, you must make peace with the fact you'll spend time adjusting gears, because it's completely agnostic to everything (# gears, chainrings, cassettes), so it takes time to get it to shift just right. But it can shift just right.
I have a friend on DA di2, he found out 2 weeks there was an app for it :D His drivetrain often goes clunk clunk, he's not the best add for DA :D He's a complete Luddite, we like him.
Wheeltop's requires cell or internet when connected, and to leave it running for use without means that the gps is running on the phone. Its also limited. But the third party app is good.
But I agree that the individual fine tuning of gears is the absolute best part of these groups.
As to reliability, yeah, its below the big players for now. Wheeltop is great but feels somewhat beta, it occasionally will lose its calibration and have to have the settings reloaded, can't do that with the factory app but the third party app allows it.
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What third party app is this you are talking about? First time i hear it :o
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What third party app is this you are talking about? First time i hear it :o
dreds.jeckyl.net
Its a web app, so you need either an android phone (with Chrome loaded) or an iphone and an app called WebBLE, or run it on a computer with Bluetooth on.
Things it does that the factory app doesn't: 1) allows you to save fine tuning configurations 2) allows you to enable race mode while leaving sleep mode on 3) allows fd fine tuning 4) allows you to kill the fd protect feature that blocks the small three cogs in little ring 5) allows you to see adjustments without having to shift to another gear and back 6) so long as you find the groupset with a web connection -or cell- you can leave it loaded and adjust things on the road without connectivity
Theres a bunch of information on this on the Facebook Wheeltop users group.
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From what I understood from several Eurobike reports they want to step up their game and properly enter the retail and OEM market. With international warranty and all that jazz. No more Aliexpress-only affair.
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Is there any news on this? The year is almost over and I still can't find any further information about the group 😬
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Is there any news on this? The year is almost over and I still can't find any further information about the group 😬
It's in the final stages of preparation. Some OE brands in China have already received final samples for testing. Expect to see it on some new bikes or independent reviews soon.
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Interesting that even the "EVE" 1x13 speed mechanical groupset listed on their website is nowhere to be found and not advertised in any way.
The somewhat downgraded "G13" groupset (without any specification of chain width/sprocket spacing/cable pull ratio or crank axle width and diameter) has been bought by 19 people on AliExpress.
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IS THERE ANY NEWS WHEN IT WILL BE RELEASED?
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IS THERE ANY NEWS WHEN IT WILL BE RELEASED?
Soon more news I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmgvXZ7GWXQ&t=1296s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmgvXZ7GWXQ&t=1296s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmgvXZ7GWXQ&t=1296s)
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According to today's Trace Velo video from Shanghai Bike Show they expect to start selling to Chinese customers in one month's time and to global ones starting from September.
Trace Velo will get one for testing.
There's some other people's YT shorts from the showing two different cassettes: a full-black on which looks low-quality (similar to the AliX 13sp one which goes for about 40 €/$) and a second one where only the two biggest cogs have a black coating.
At least on the latter cassette there is no 13-15 tooth jump it appears so this is good news if true.
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It looks that for Chinese electronic groupset it’s urgent to wait!
Magene, sensah and ltwoo all seems to have upcoming releases
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It looks like the release of this groupset is imminent. It recently made a debut on the Twitter x7 bike and I found a rebadged version on Google called "whaleroad r7" - https://www.mywhaleroad.com/
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It looks like the release of this groupset is imminent. It recently made a debut on the Twitter x7 bike and I found a rebadged version on Google called "whaleroad r7" - https://www.mywhaleroad.com/
IMHO this is the funniest name a chinese brand has come up with so far ;D
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11-46 range feels a little small for 14 speed. Seems an odd choice not to go with a cassette that allows going down to a 10 tooth cog.
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Don’t know if anyone mentioned this but the weights are on that site aswell. 248 g per shifter, 398g for the derailleur
, 478g for the carbon crankset including chainring. Not top of the line but very comparable to Wheeltop & Ltwoo weights.
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It's available on taobao now. Works out to be A$635 including taxes and shipping to me in Aus which represents really good value if it performs the way it's been marketed.
Let the reviews come !!!!
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It's available on taobao now. Works out to be A$635 including taxes and shipping to me in Aus which represents really good value if it performs the way it's been marketed.
Let the reviews come !!!!
Could you share the taobao link? Thanks
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Could you share the taobao link? Thanks
Here it is https://intl.taobao.com/sk/_b.xcbsaq
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the app hints that a FD might be coming... i really hope so
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For those seeking exotic groupsets, bear in mind that patents can be (are) geography dependent. This came up on a recent Nero Show with Joe from Panda Podium, or something like that, can't remember.
So, when there are questions around 1. why is this groupset not available outside China 2. is it true it might not work / risks getting bricked outside of China, it might simply be a legal protection.
Point being, don't assume it's a conspiracy theory so the white man pays more, and that you'd be scoring a great deal going exotic.
Having installed lots of twoo electronic groups, starting with the first gen, my only recommendation is: dont. do not be an early adopter, not now that you can get mini groups from shimano di2 on aliexpress at very decent prices. Out of all the bikes i've built, virtually all the issues that arise are groupset related, and almost all of these are electronic ltwoo related. When the stuff works, it works. But much more often than you'd like, it doesnt. And that's extremely annoying. All the more now that (i'm in Europe) tariffs, shipping, and general shenanigans on Aliexpress have increased prices 40% in a few months. It used to be that you could replace a shifter or derailleur or battery housing for cheap. Not anymore. Do look at replacement parts, 1 shifter can now cost half of what i paid for the entire ltwoo group. And you're hostage of that, if the rear derailleur or a shifter needs replacing, you either replace it, or scrap the entire group, there's no in between when it's electronic.
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On the Taobao listing there's three versions of the rear derailleur, a 28-36t version (for folding bikes), a 46-50t version for road/gravel and a 52t version for gravel.
As Serge_K says, nothing to be gained here by being an early adopter, but I think it's one to watch. Hopefully the buttons have improved since their first outing at Shanghai 2025, that seemed to be the main ergonomics issue.
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Please let there be guinea pigs. :) If the price incl shipping is cheap enough for people in certain regions why not take the risk and enlighten us here on your findings.
Pros:
Sensah didn't rush this out. Taking more than 1.5 years to bring it to market suggests they did actual, rigorous testing. With their aim of supplying it to the domestic Chinese OEM market, the product might already have good maturity
Cons:
Competitors like Wheeltop and L-Twoo have given Chinese electronic groupsets a bad reputation. Both brands rushed releases and forced early adopters to deal with major bugs. Sensah might follow that same Chinese mentality of product development: release now, patch later.
So up to the early users to find out.
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Some initial impressions posted in Baidu Tieba:
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/10876983912?fr=frs
Lots of pics there too.
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Some initial impressions posted in Baidu Tieba:
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/10876983912?fr=frs
Lots of pics there too.
Just saw this post yesterday( Monday so I have time to surf), want to try it because the shifter is like E1, with high rotation brake.
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Well, this is very interesting...
But, isn't Sentyeh the exclusive branding of Sensah to the Chinese domestic market (or is the other way around, not sure)? That could mean that this new groupset may not be sold officially to and have support in other coutries outside of China. Otherwise, I can easily imagine SRAM nailing them with pattent infringment lawsuits over this groupset...
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Whats the price?
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Now ships with Seraph bikes:
https://www.seraphbikes.com/new-superlight-road-bike-tt-x7-carbon-wheelset-shimano-105-mechanical-or-di2-groupset-4649515356cm-complete-bike-p7143503.html
Price is insane:
1390 USD for Senthey group, carbon frame, carbon wheels
For reference:
105 R7120: 1590 USD
105 Di2 R7170: 2210 USD
Is this just smart decoy pricing, or can these groupsets be picked up for close to nothing?
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Groupset is 2599 CNY / 385 USD on Taobao
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Groupset is 2599 CNY / 385 USD on Taobao
This makes it so much weirder: This is without 14s casette, 14s chain, chainset, aero chainring....
How does TanTan/Seraph/Twitter sell this at a profit?
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Because at Taobao they sell the groupset at the retail price and bike manufactures get them at OEM price which is less than half of the retailprice.
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The group set should be good. However, as far as I know there´s no APP for it in USA or Europe
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Looks like the waleroad app will be the 'go-to' app:
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mywhaleroad.sentyeh.global&hl=en (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.mywhaleroad.sentyeh.global&hl=en)
The fact that they call the app SENTYEH ECS makes me assume it should work on the Sentyeh groupset rather than only the rebranded whaleroad groupset. If not the case, I wonder what a consumer of the TWITTER bike has to do to modify their shifting.
Below a short AI summary of the findings in China so far:
Pros
- Excellent hood ergonomics, often rated better than Wheeltop and more comfortable than expected.
- Wireless shifting is reported to be fast and reliable.
- Brake lever design and maintenance access appear well thought out.
- Includes programmable auxiliary buttons, firmware updates and app-based customization.
- Settings are stored in the groupset itself, so it remains functional even without frequent app use.
Cons
- Button click feel is relatively firm compared to SRAM AXS.
- Long-term reliability is still largely unknown.
- Replacement parts availability outside China remains a concern.
- The 14-speed ecosystem (chains, cassettes, wear rates, future compatibility) is still unproven.
- Many road riders are waiting for a mature 2x version before switching.
App / Software
- A global Android app exists with firmware updates, battery monitoring, button customization and derailleur adjustment.
- International support appears planned, although long-term software support remains to be proven.
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I whatsapp'd Seraph with regard to currently requiring a Chinese number to use the Sensah app for the 1x14 groupset they offer, they've replied saying suppliers still need to wait another month and a half before more countries are added to the list of those eligible to register accounts.
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Nice. But only for android so far. I have iOS
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Weight of each parts.
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Is this customisable in the individual gear spacing in the way that LTWOO works? I’m contemplating the idea of converting my 1x13 Ekar gravel bike to this and keep the 13sp cassette, chain and cranks.
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On Xiahongshu, someone mentioned that it was cassette speed selectable. Can someone confirm? It might be easier to use a common spec 12 speed cassette.
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The app needs to be available internationally before you can seriously consider this groupset. There is the "whaleroad" app available but no one has been able to confirm this works, although Sensah themselves were using the app at the Shanghai Bike show.
As per the screenshots from the whaleroad Play store, the cassette speed is adjustable. The long cage rear derailleur specs on the whaleroad website also confirm it's 3-14 speed.
@Sebastian in answer to your question, I just noticed the whaleroad app has a global offset function.
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Now things get a little bit interesting. 10-45 will be a nice range for the 14 speed (judging by that screenshot there), seems like it will be the same as the 13-speed 11-45 but with a 10t overhanging the edge on an HG cassette in much the same way SRAM implemented the 10t on their lower end MTB transmission HG cassette. This is something I can get excited about.
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Will these cassette work on HG freehub? If yes it will be a nice alternative to microspline and xdr.
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So only 1x is planned for this? Or I missed something obvious.
Excited for this, I am part of a ltwoo owner fb groups and every day you get people reporting issues with those. People say we're overpaying for the big brands and or this group is biased because of course people would report stuff not working and not stuff working but I still feel like it's not the case, it's not refined enough yet.
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It seems they've rebranded the entire brand for the global market. The product is now called the Whaleroad R7.
https://www.mywhaleroad.com/r7/
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It seems that their 13s and 14s cassette are compatible with Shimano HG freehub (11 or 12s).
Someone can confirm it ?
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It seems that their 13s and 14s cassette are compatible with Shimano HG freehub (11 or 12s).
Someone can confirm it ?
it says so on their whaleroad website
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Cassette 11-46 and no cog 14 is such a stupid choice . You don't even get 1:1 with sufficient chainring, but you get big Jump from 15 to 13. This gruppset makes no Sense.
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Cassette 11-46 and no cog 14 is such a stupid choice . You don't even get 1:1 with sufficient chainring, but you get big Jump from 15 to 13. This gruppset makes no Sense.
I can see the appeal, "only" 2t gaps untill the 25t, which means around 25-35kph is the sweetspot for this cassette with a ~52t, and a 52-46 is still enough bailout for me.
I must admit that I am not a high level racer or have long non-technical descents where i care about cadence gaps 50kph+
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Mineral oil is a big plus. And the levers look good. I do love the E1 gen lever ergonomics. I do agree the 11-46t cassette is an odd choice. They could have taken SRAM’s 10-46t and added a 14 or 16 and it would have been way nicer. Is it compatible with SRAM’s or Campy’s cassettes?
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While I support more options, I don't see much advantage with this over LTwoo eGR or Wheeltop GeX. For road it's all about 2x especially living around steep hills and fast flats. I'd have to run a 9/10-46t chainring to make this groupset useful for me.
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Nice find about the website. Looks AI generated but whatever, it's something. I believe there's a mistake in the 14 speed cassette page. It says 11-46 but I think it's going to be 10-45 with the overhanging 10t like on the screenshots from the app and as suggested by someone before. Looks very promising especially because levers look good and feature 3 buttons each (I always wish levers had more buttons to control the head unit so I hope these will connect to them). Screenshots from the app suggest it has all the cool features to control indexing, seems done well. I presume there will be troubles with the removable battery that charges by usb C, wasn't wheeltop struck by SRAM with a similar design?
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Nice find about the website. Looks AI generated but whatever, it's something. I believe there's a mistake in the 14 speed cassette page. It says 11-46 but I think it's going to be 10-45 with the overhanging 10t like on the screenshots from the app and as suggested by someone before.
Something is off. I found some pictures on FB and clearly it's 11-46 but that cassette has 13 cogs only so maybe you're right and there is 14th cog as a cap but maybe it's just a 13 speed version cassette.
On the other side there is a mark MAX 45T on RD.
EDIT. Yes, I probably saw 14th cog on a different pic so I can assume that the cog progression would be 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-24-28-32-36-40-46
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I count 14 sprockets on there with the smallest being 11. Definitely a lil weird. Unsure if the copy just hasn't been updated on the website.
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That's definitely a 11-46 14sp then. I wonder what's the cog spacing and what chain they'll use. Even now with the current 13 speed HG cassettes on aliexpress I don't have a clue on what spacing and chain spec they use. It looks like it has two overhanging cogs on the back so I I hope there's not going to be any interference with the spokes.
Anyways, 418% is too little range and they'd rather add a 10t cog rather than some really small jump in the middle.
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Honestly that range+number of gears is basically what I have with 11 speed right now. I'm running 52-36 with an 11-32 cassette. I could definitely see some wider ranges being more popular, but it's basically on par with 11 speed in terms of useable gears.
The weird thing to me is that they went with 11t and putting more cogs inboard of the freehub. It makes me think you would need to shift the chainring inwards to have a more consistent chainline.
Also on the website it says to use 14 speed you need to use a udh dropout. I would think that would only be true if they were doing the 10t overhang method.
It seems like they maybe changed plans and haven't updated the website to reflect that.
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Joe from China Cycling explained in a video from a trade show last year that you need UDH dropouts because they use a proprietary (narrower) UDH hanger. This way they gain additional cog space without the chainline issues which simply moving the cogs closer to the spokes would pose.
It's basically how the XPLR full mount derailleurs attach but without the outer plate. Which begs the question of how sturdy the hanger is going to be.
The range is a bit small indeed.
I'm currently running 1x13 XPLR on the road. 46X10-46 for instance is slightly bigger in range than 2x 50/34 X 11-34.
I was afraid of the 13-15 jump but I didn't notice it so far. But then again I've just moved to a very hilly region so I'm now constantly shifting across the cassette anyway.
For off-road use I'd be looking for something like 11-50 if they need to keep the 11 cog.
Cog spacing still isn't ideal. Without a 10t cog the 13-15 jump moves further into high speed territory so a 14t cog would be appreciated. 32-36 is a uselessly small relative jump in the low speed realm, 24-28 a big one in the middle. All in all you don't gain anything meaningful from the additional cog vs. the 13sp XPLR cassette.
Apart from lower price maybe.
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Joe from China Cycling explained in a video from a trade show last year that you need UDH dropouts because they use a proprietary (narrower) UDH hanger. This way they gain additional cog space without the chainline issues which simply moving the cogs closer to the spokes would pose.
It's basically how the XPLR full mount derailleurs attach but without the outer plate. Which begs the question of how sturdy the hanger is going to be.
The range is a bit small indeed.
I'm currently running 1x13 XPLR on the road. 46X10-46 for instance is slightly bigger in range than 2x 50/34 X 11-34.
I was afraid of the 13-15 jump but I didn't notice it so far. But then again I've just moved to a very hilly region so I'm now constantly shifting across the cassette anyway.
For off-road use I'd be looking for something like 11-50 if they need to keep the 11 cog.
Cog spacing still isn't ideal. Without a 10t cog the 13-15 jump moves further into high speed territory so a 14t cog would be appreciated. 32-36 is a uselessly small relative jump in the low speed realm, 24-28 a big one in the middle. All in all you don't gain anything meaningful from the additional cog vs. the 13sp XPLR cassette.
Apart from lower price maybe.
I've been on XPLR 13s for almost a year and despise the 10-46t cassette. The lack of a 14t and 16t irritates the heck out of me. I hate the 13t to 15t jump. Campagnolo's 10-48t looks way better. I'd buy this group just to run that cassette.
On the other hand, the 11-46t cassette makes no sense. Not sure who the target is.
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I've been on XPLR 13s for almost a year and despise the 10-46t cassette. The lack of a 14t and 16t irritates the heck out of me. I hate the 13t to 15t jump. Campagnolo's 10-48t looks way better. I'd buy this group just to run that cassette.
On the other hand, the 11-46t cassette makes no sense. Not sure who the target is.
There's also a Shimano 10-48 13 speed cassette coming - if it's cheaper like normal Shimano cassettes then I could be very interested in running it with this or the L-Twoo group.
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There's also a Shimano 10-48 13 speed cassette coming - if it's cheaper like normal Shimano cassettes then I could be very interested in running it with this or the L-Twoo group.
I'd be interested in that as well. But could be a while before that's released.
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I haven't used it but on paper the Campagnolo 10-48 cassette looks worse than the XPLR. The tradeoff for a 14t cog is a tiny 42-48 jump at the low speed end (should be 40-48) and multiple big jumps in the middle. The Ekar GT 10-44 wasn't too bad.
At least the Whaleroad cassette looks like it's light. And good to see it's going to be a complete group set.
Odd to see they start off with 6-bolt rotors.