Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: StorTre on April 19, 2026, 02:45:37 PM
-
Seen at the Sea Otter Classic seems Tavelo is working on a lightweight aero road frame with 40mm tire clearance and UDH. Possibly named the Arden? Skyasports instagram story seems to suggest that is the name but isn’t specifically mentioned elsewhere yet.
Covered in this article: https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-gear/tavelo-sea-otter-unnamed-race-bike/
Expected to be under 2500 with handlebar
Higher stack compared to the Tavelo Arow
Medium frame claimed weight of 650g and 340g for the fork
BSA bottom bracket according to gcperformance video
Edit: Most recent information seems to point towards 34mm listed tire clearance. Added photo of geometry chart.
-
Had dinner with Mr Tavelo himself last night. He's a very calm and calculated gentlemen. I like that he's been very been careful about not simply releasing a bunch of new frames that will confuse consumers and subsequently cannibalize sales. The Tavelo Arow is my favorite road bike so far from the Chinese brands.
Here in Chicagoland there really isnt any gravel within a 2-3 hour drive that requires gravel tires larger than 40c. So the Tavelo Arden could really be a one-bike solution while competing with Canyon's latest "Endurance".
I know pricing will be tough to swallow. My main takeaway from Sea Otter is how important marketing and brand cache is for Western buyers.
-
The new Conti GP5000 S TR (NOT the ghetto-ized all seasons) seems to be out, shipping, and in stock here https://r2-bike.com/CONTINENTAL-Tire-Grand-Prix-5000-S-TR-Tubeless-28-700-x-35C-BlackChili-VectranBreaker.
Havent seen a rolling resistance test yet, but i suspect that it's as fast as the 32, that was as fast as the 28, give or take.
With a wide ass rim, the existence of this tyre just reset the gold standard for fast road bikes for most people, as far as i'm concerned. If you're 80kg, you've got no business being on 28C when you could be on wider tyres. I have 32 measuring 34mm at the back, i'm never going narrower again, and i'd love to test this 35 to see how it feels. The less is worry (punctures) and feel (vibration / comfort) potholes and bad asphalt, the better. Especially in the mountains, especially in spring / autumn when alpine / forest roads can be greasy, dirty, mossy, wet, gravely, and so on. I dont like that they don't have a tube version though, but i also dont think China is selling 35C TPU tubes, so maybe it's got to be tubeless.
And so, that frame looks very interesting.
-
Anything above 1500$ for a Chinese frame doesn't make much sense for me. Those frames have basically zero resale value and no local support. I wonder how increasing prices to absurd levels went for winspace. I'm talking about slc5 here, nice frameset, but not at this price point. Didn't see anyone riding it except YouTubers who got it for free.
-
Most people don't care about resale value because they don't sell their bikes or frames anymore; instead, they ride them until they end up cut into pieces in the trash or sit in the basement or garage for years. That said, I would never buy a frame from Winspace for the price of an SLC5. However, I would also never buy an S-Works or something similar from a Western company at those prices. And i would absolutely never buy a used frame, no matter how expensive it was once.
-
Most people don't care about resale value because they don't sell their bikes or frames anymore; instead, they ride them until they end up cut into pieces in the trash or sit in the basement or garage for years. That said, I would never buy a frame from Winspace for the price of an SLC5. However, I would also never buy an S-Works or something similar from a Western company at those prices. And i would absolutely never buy a used frame, no matter how expensive it was once.
I would like to see your scientific research behind that statement..
-
So I was very successfull reselling my one year old Tideace framesets ;)
-
Anything above 1500$ for a Chinese frame doesn't make much sense for me. Those frames have basically zero resale value and no local support. I wonder how increasing prices to absurd levels went for winspace. I'm talking about slc5 here, nice frameset, but not at this price point. Didn't see anyone riding it except YouTubers who got it for free.
No local support? There is if you are in Belgium or close to Belgium. Not sure about other countries.
But local support for Chinese brands is really increasing.
https://www.tavelobike.be/
-
I would like to see your scientific research behind that statement..
Well, at least there’s a very long thread on rennrad-news about why the secondhand market for road bikes isn’t working. Maybe it’s just a German problem. Maybe there’s nothing to it.
In the end, it comes down to how cheaply you’re willing to sell. You can sell anything for a few bucks, but in my opinion, it’s not worth it.
-
I once bought a high end custom spoked wheelset for 2100€. All ‘western’ parts in the wheel. Couldn’t sell it, until I dropped the price to 450€.
Learned my lesson back then.. resale value is never guaranteed. Not for western stuff either…
-
No local support? There is if you are in Belgium or close to Belgium. Not sure about other countries.
But local support for Chinese brands is really increasing.
https://www.tavelobike.be/
You know that Belgium is a small country almost at the end of Europe. I certainly wouldn't call it local support for anyone not living 250km away.
-
You know that Belgium is a small country almost at the end of Europe. I certainly wouldn't call it local support for anyone not living 250km away.
In Bruges:
Ray: "Chocolate. They’re famous for chocolate and child abuse, and they only invented the chocolate to get to the kids. And Tavelo local support."
-
You know that Belgium is a small country almost at the end of Europe. I certainly wouldn't call it local support for anyone not living 250km away.
You said ‘no local support’, which should say ‘depends on where you live, no local support’. Germany by the way also has a Tavelo dealer (www.tavelo-bikes.de), but perhaps Germany is a small country too? ;-).
That wasn’t even the point though, point is that some of these Chinese brands are expanding their local dealer / local support network.
Evolve sells through one of the biggest retailers in the Netherlands now (Mantel), Seka has a dedicated retailer here as well. Ciclistici from BE sells a lot of CN D2C brands.
I don’t have visibility on how this is going in other countries in Europe, but would make sense for many of these brands to slowly expand their network.
-
I agree with you, but I also kinda see kubackje’s point — for many people “local” still means within easy driving distance.
Having a dealer 300–500km away is better than nothing, but it’s not the same as walking into a shop.
That said, the direction is clear: more EU distributors, more physical presence, and probably better resale perception over time.
If brands like Tavelo keep pushing this, it could change the whole “Chinese frames = no support” narrative.
-
Pulling up to both my local crit races and national level events while seeing several riders with Tavelo Arows has been awesome to see this season. Folks who paid for them 8)
Tavelo is continuing the legacy that many feel Winspace once had back in 2020/21. Which makes sense IYKYK.
-
Pulling up to both my local crit races and national level events while seeing several riders with Tavelo Arows has been awesome to see this season. Folks who paid for them 8)
Tavelo is continuing the legacy that many feel Winspace once had back in 2020/21. Which makes sense IYKYK.
So how many frames do you have lined up to review over the new few months heh
-
You said ‘no local support’, which should say ‘depends on where you live, no local support’. Germany by the way also has a Tavelo dealer (www.tavelo-bikes.de), but perhaps Germany is a small country too? ;-).
That wasn’t even the point though, point is that some of these Chinese brands are expanding their local dealer / local support network.
Evolve sells through one of the biggest retailers in the Netherlands now (Mantel), Seka has a dedicated retailer here as well. Ciclistici from BE sells a lot of CN D2C brands.
I don’t have visibility on how this is going in other countries in Europe, but would make sense for many of these brands to slowly expand their network.
I think you don't understand what local support is for most of people or you just playing stupid. Which makes sense reading the part about germany. Of course you will try to distort reality, because you're basically a paid shiller. But as you can see some people have different definition of local support.
-
There are multiple ways to build a local support network. Where I am Quick Pro is offering nice “pro” deals to a number of clubs. These clubs members take their bikes to a small number of high end shops, including some mechanics they ride with. These shops now know how to build Quick Pro bikes, how to get spares etc. AFAIK, none of these shops are dealers though some of them are probably thinking about it.
I havent seen the same thing with Tavelo yet. I havent even seen one out on the road where I live, but I am sure I will since they are doing the same thing (offering steep “pro” deals to clubs). Its probably really effective way to grow and bypasses the challenge of setting up formal dealer arrangement and gets product out in the market first. The support will come if there are enough builds to be done as most of these chinese brands seem to be selling either framesets or build kits. They arent flatpack bikes like Canyons (this is respect to Canyon for sending bikes that require close to no assembly).
-
Any info regarding geometry?
There was something like a geo chart on the table next to the frame at sea otter I think ;D
-
just watched GCperformance vid and he claimed it was 34c tire clearance, which looks closer to in the images /video compared to the 40c mentioned in the velo article.
But i do hope it will be 40c, that will be a very exciting bike that i will look forward to.
-
The new Conti GP5000 S TR (NOT the ghetto-ized all seasons) seems to be out, shipping, and in stock here https://r2-bike.com/CONTINENTAL-Tire-Grand-Prix-5000-S-TR-Tubeless-28-700-x-35C-BlackChili-VectranBreaker.
Havent seen a rolling resistance test yet, but i suspect that it's as fast as the 32, that was as fast as the 28, give or take.
With a wide ass rim, the existence of this tyre just reset the gold standard for fast road bikes for most people, as far as i'm concerned. If you're 80kg, you've got no business being on 28C when you could be on wider tyres. I have 32 measuring 34mm at the back, i'm never going narrower again, and i'd love to test this 35 to see how it feels. The less is worry (punctures) and feel (vibration / comfort) potholes and bad asphalt, the better. Especially in the mountains, especially in spring / autumn when alpine / forest roads can be greasy, dirty, mossy, wet, gravely, and so on. I dont like that they don't have a tube version though, but i also dont think China is selling 35C TPU tubes, so maybe it's got to be tubeless.
And so, that frame looks very interesting.
Try the 38c Schwalbe slicks-real width is right at 40mm on 26 IW rims. Dive bombing inside lines on asphalt is hilarious fun.
https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/cx-gravel-reviews/schwalbe-pro-one-tle-38 (https://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com/cx-gravel-reviews/schwalbe-pro-one-tle-38)
-
Had dinner with Mr Tavelo himself last night. He's a very calm and calculated gentlemen. I like that he's been very been careful about not simply releasing a bunch of new frames that will confuse consumers and subsequently cannibalize sales. The Tavelo Arow is my favorite road bike so far from the Chinese brands.
Here in Chicagoland there really isnt any gravel within a 2-3 hour drive that requires gravel tires larger than 40c. So the Tavelo Arden could really be a one-bike solution while competing with Canyon's latest "Endurance".
I know pricing will be tough to swallow. My main takeaway from Sea Otter is how important marketing and brand cache is for Western buyers.
*cough* Winspace *cough*
-
Most people don't care about resale value because they don't sell their bikes or frames anymore; instead, they ride them until they end up cut into pieces in the trash or sit in the basement or garage for years. That said, I would never buy a frame from Winspace for the price of an SLC5. However, I would also never buy an S-Works or something similar from a Western company at those prices. And i would absolutely never buy a used frame, no matter how expensive it was once.
This is just not true, there are whole business centered around basically nothing but reselling used bikes. I myself have bought 2 used bikes and sold 3. I just sold a gravel bike on Tuesday.
I def used to agree that Chinese bikes basically had no resale value, but again, a quick look at stuff like Winspace bikes/framesets on Buycycle says otherwise. Theyre def cheaper than Western equivalents but they're not completely worthless. I think the problem for Tavelo specifically is they havent built that widespread name recognition yet.
-
Some updated info from the TaveloSG instagram account.
Claim a 34mm tire clearance, reinforces the idea of Arden being the name of the model, has a geometry chart in the post. Hopefully some more simple colour options will be available as they’ve only shown very busy paint schemes.
-
I like that he's been very been careful about not simply releasing a bunch of new frames that will confuse consumers and subsequently cannibalize sales. The Tavelo Arow is my favorite road bike so far from the Chinese brands.
How does this not immediately cannibalise sales from the Arow? It's lighter, wider clearance, better geometry.
If your interpretation is that this is the Arow II / SL2 / Electric Boogaloo, why not release it under that name?
Or are we expecting an Arow II aero rocketship from him with this positioned as the Allroad/Do-it-all?
-
Most people don't care about resale value because they don't sell their bikes or frames anymore; instead, they ride them until they end up cut into pieces in the trash or sit in the basement or garage for years. That said, I would never buy a frame from Winspace for the price of an SLC5. However, I would also never buy an S-Works or something similar from a Western company at those prices. And i would absolutely never buy a used frame, no matter how expensive it was once.
I'd disagree, unless you are like Patty Lino who is just rolling though China frames for content on YouTube, I think resale does matter since these China brands move through product cycles extremely fast which is a pro and a con. Chinese D2C are able to easily re-tune or recreate a frame on the fly year to year, heck even every 6 months in the case of Winspace, but with the downside that there is a fear that you buy a Chinese frame and in 6 months it's already dated in terms of specs, and since these frames really rely on "value" and spec hunting, a lot of people who buys these bikes are not doing so to buy a "lifetime" bike or a bike they probably will use for the next 5+ years. In contrast if you buy a Specialized or whatever, you are paying a premium but you have the satisfaction they run on a three year product cycle, thus when the SL9 comes out this year, you can rest easy it's not going to be revised 6 months later.
I personally have fallen for this Chinese spec chasing trap and combined with the major increase of D2C Chinese bike frame costs now being $2K-$3K, I personally don't see the reason to go Chinese (frames) unless they are offering a spec and/or value that a Western brand simply isn't offering yet, ie this Tavelo Arden since there is now maybe one aero bike that support a true 35mm tire, ie the Canyon Endurace CFR which isn't even available yet in the US and two it's only a complete bike in Shimano DA at $10K+. So I can see this Tavelo Arden actually ticking a lot of boxes, however the big names in Trek, Specialized, Giant, and so on all have to see these trends coming right? Right? You would expect they have something in the pipeline. The fact that a good deal of Western race bikes have been released already in early 2026 and tire clearance hasn't really expanded at all, would indicate these Western brands are still at least a generation behind the ultra wide tire clearance trend
-
Some updated info from the TaveloSG instagram account.
Claim a 34mm tire clearance, reinforces the idea of Arden being the name of the model, has a geometry chart in the post. Hopefully some more simple colour options will be available as they’ve only shown very busy paint schemes.
Yeah at 34mm I don't think that's pushing the needle enough for me. A SuperSix EVO Gen 4/5 has 34mm clearance. Thus that means you can run a 32mm tire on a pretty progressively wide wheel. I think what I am looking for any many others are looking for in something akin to the new Canyon Endurace CFR that can 35mm tire on a progressively wide wheel or even a bike that has true 40mm clearance
-
https://youtu.be/ZaxFdpVOVt0
Tavelo Arden with 38mm tyres. @21:09.
(35C measuring 38mm)
-
It could be tempting to quote casing width-as-measured as the tire size but nominal 38mm tires would be taller than a nominal 35mm tire. In fact some 35mm tires are even taller than other same size tires like the new 35 STR which is 2mm taller over the rim than this Mich Pro5. Tire height could decide if setup is too close to the FD/seattube or the fork crown. Also remember most forks, seatstays and chainstays taper or get narrow so tire height should be considered.
-
Some updated info from the TaveloSG instagram account.
I am hopeful that this geo isnt accurate as it isnt looking like a higher stack to me... Have we seen any other mentions of geometry?
-
The new Conti GP5000 S TR (NOT the ghetto-ized all seasons) seems to be out, shipping, and in stock here https://r2-bike.com/CONTINENTAL-Tire-Grand-Prix-5000-S-TR-Tubeless-28-700-x-35C-BlackChili-VectranBreaker.
Havent seen a rolling resistance test yet, but i suspect that it's as fast as the 32, that was as fast as the 28, give or take.
With a wide ass rim, the existence of this tyre just reset the gold standard for fast road bikes for most people, as far as i'm concerned. If you're 80kg, you've got no business being on 28C when you could be on wider tyres. I have 32 measuring 34mm at the back, i'm never going narrower again, and i'd love to test this 35 to see how it feels. The less is worry (punctures) and feel (vibration / comfort) potholes and bad asphalt, the better. Especially in the mountains, especially in spring / autumn when alpine / forest roads can be greasy, dirty, mossy, wet, gravely, and so on. I dont like that they don't have a tube version though, but i also dont think China is selling 35C TPU tubes, so maybe it's got to be tubeless.
And so, that frame looks very interesting.
I wanted to respond to this as I’ve been riding 32-36C tires with Chinese TPU tubes for years. Think rider makes some very nice all-road tubes. They even make 45C tubes for vintage 26” MTB wheels.
The new wide GP5K STR’s are a nice addition to the field but hardly the only choice on the scene. In fact, Conti themselves released the GP Urban, a 35C only tire, some years back. I’ve been riding that tire as well for a couple of years. Exceptionally light (~330g) and fantastic compound. Fast. Michelin Pro5’s in 32 and 35. A little heavier at 390g (35C) but also super fast. I have those in 35C mounted on 30mm internal wheelset and they result in 38mm WAM. Challenge Strada Bianca 36C. Same. Fast rolling gravel tire which is also fast on tarmac. Panaracer GravelKing SS (slick) in 32 a 35C (my 32’s are 35mm WAM on 27mm internal). Pirelli of course have had their P-Zero Race in 32, 35 and 40 for a couple of years as well. The list for good all-road 32-40C tires is quite healthy nowadays.
-
Some updated info from the TaveloSG instagram account.
Claim a 34mm tire clearance, reinforces the idea of Arden being the name of the model, has a geometry chart in the post. Hopefully some more simple colour options will be available as they’ve only shown very busy paint schemes.
These are supposed to be the color options from Tavelo Arden... Is anyone else disappointed or is it just me 🤦♂️
-
I think this is the Adapt dp-b02 with some small tweaks in the geometry lol.
-
These are supposed to be the color options from Tavelo Arden... Is anyone else disappointed or is it just me 🤦♂️
Nice colors but I would like to see there show bike in this blue. Tavelo are open to create new colorways. I'm sure they will go out with some more together with Panda Podium launch.
-
These are supposed to be the color options from Tavelo Arden... Is anyone else disappointed or is it just me 🤦♂️
They develop paint jobs that result in "i wish they just made a black one"... If i liked the frame, i would have to not buy because of the paintjobs. Reminds me of Giant propel from a few years ago. The paintjobs went from looking super nice to absolute dog $hit for several years.
-
Not a fan of the first two, but the third one is beautiful imo.
-
These are supposed to be the color options from Tavelo Arden... Is anyone else disappointed or is it just me 🤦♂️
Why don't they just release the cracked ice green blue colour they previewed the frame with?
That was lovely.
-
As far as we know, those two colors are official for Arden relase.
-
Is the geometry table already published somewhere?
-
Sure, here.
-
It's an Sl8 with slightly more standover.
-
As long as there’s some more simple colour options I don’t mind there being louder ones for those that prefer it. Glad to see it looks like there will be a simple black frame from those photos. :)
-
The more that gets released about this frame, the worse it looks. What an odd direction for Tavelo to go in. We were all led to believe this is shaping up to be something new and progressive when it's just the Arow 2 from the looks of things.
-
From a dealer, it is said :
It supports tires up to 38mm with a 1x drivetrain or 34mm with a 2x drivetrain.
-
From a dealer, it is said :
It supports tires up to 38mm with a 1x drivetrain or 34mm with a 2x drivetrain.
I cant understand how this works. Most FD have no issue with 40-42mm tires, unless the issue is the FD cable for a mechanical setup. EDIT: meant FD!
-
I cant understand how this works. Most FD have no issue with 40-42mm tires, unless the issue is the RD cable for a mechanical setup
I don't know but this is the information I got.
-
TAVELO founders are those original WINSPACE design team, now WINSPACE in China is kind of social death. Winspace boss is a very stupid person for performing silly, real riders already stop buying WINSPACE bikes anymore.
-
TAVELO founders are those original WINSPACE design team, now WINSPACE in China is kind of social death. Winspace boss is a very stupid person for performing silly, real riders already stop buying WINSPACE bikes anymore.
Here in Chicago our premier elite race team just received their Winspace M6s and T1550 earlier this month. Both the mens and women teams. A few of them will be at Nationals this weekend on said bikes. Sure there was a discount, but they still had to pay for them. I also get plenty of private messages from individuals customers who've recently purchased Winspace bikes.
Who or what is a real rider?
-
Here in Chicago our premier elite race team just received their Winspace M6s and T1550 earlier this month. Both the mens and women teams. A few of them will be at Nationals this weekend on said bikes. Sure there was a discount, but they still had to pay for them. I also get plenty of private messages from individuals customers who've recently purchased Winspace bikes.
Who or what is a real rider?
I am not saying any riders overseas, not here to have any beef with anybody, if you like WINSPACE its fine, go ahead, no problem with me, I am just telling the story in China.
-
TAVELO founders are those original WINSPACE design team, now WINSPACE in China is kind of social death. Winspace boss is a very stupid person for performing silly, real riders already stop buying WINSPACE bikes anymore.
Similar to the thread on Spect Strada, i think users here would benefit from details around your claim that the winspace boss is "very stupid". What makes you say that? You may well be right, but without explanation, it doesnt carry much weight.
Also, i didnt know that the original design team from winspace became the tavelo founders. That's actually very interesting, and would explain a lot, because clearly, winspace has been losing steam in the last couple of years on western social media and on this forum, whereas Tavelo is gaining a lot of popularity on youtube and on this forum.
Do you know the names of the people in that winspace team that founded winspace?
-
Similar to the thread on Spect Strada, i think users here would benefit from details around your claim that the winspace boss is "very stupid". What makes you say that? You may well be right, but without explanation, it doesnt carry much weight.
Also, i didnt know that the original design team from winspace became the tavelo founders. That's actually very interesting, and would explain a lot, because clearly, winspace has been losing steam in the last couple of years on western social media and on this forum, whereas Tavelo is gaining a lot of popularity on youtube and on this forum.
Do you know the names of the people in that winspace team that founded winspace?
Again and again, their boss name is Huacai 花菜, the issue is China's domestic problem, I know you guy may think Taiwan is not part of China, but this topic in China is not the same, personally we regard Taiwan is a part of China for sure, so I dont want to bring any politics here, Chinese denying WINSPACE brand is all about he was saying Taiwan is a country and he loves Japan more than China which is his own country. I dont want to hear any hate speech here against China, but this is what happend, you want me to explain, here I did for you.
So I hope you could respect us for what we stand for, you could keep your opinion, So I could keep mine, please do not debate with me for any politcs here.
In 2024 I paid deposit 500USD for WINSPACE C5 but they didnt send the bike in time, so I canceled the order. And in 2025 the boss 花菜 said stupid words in Wechat group, after that WINSPACE brand reputation was as same as the rat on street.
This link you could see some dealers will cancel WINSPACE bikes after the speech.
https://www.xiaohongshu.com/explore/6847a186000000002301cb2d?app_platform=ios&app_version=9.33.3&share_from_user_hidden=true&xsec_source=app_share&type=normal&xsec_token=CBJ08Iq10Lev_wvOKg6FCuVjraOBxQK9hrcJVd8BXDiZ0=&author_share=1&xhsshare=CopyLink&shareRedId=N0w2N0Y2OkE2NzUyOTgwNjY0OTdGPTZM&apptime=1781795076&share_id=3c6cf036508e4af1a1884a4e8bea988f
https://tieba.baidu.com/p/9755256328
This link you could find the TAVELO and WINSPACE business battle.
踏为乐 is TAVELO
AGAIN, PLEASE DO NOT ARGUR WITH ME ON ANY POLITIC TOPIC, THANK YOU FOR UNDERSTANDING.
Use AI to give you more details:
Here is an English explanation of the situation, tailored for a foreign cyclist or observer:
Winspace is a 100% mainland Chinese brand, not Taiwanese. The controversy surrounding its CEO, nicknamed "Hua Cai," stems from a major PR crisis regarding a sensitive political slip-up.
Here is the full breakdown of the incident:
1. Who is "Hua Cai"?
"Hua Cai" (花菜, meaning "Cauliflower") is a mocking nickname given by the Chinese cycling community to Stephen Cai (Cai Zhengchang), the founder and CEO of Winspace.
In Chinese internet slang, his surname "Cai" (蔡) sounds exactly like the word for "vegetable" or "rookie" (菜). Because netizens felt he handled the situation poorly, they started calling him "Hua Cai" to mock him for being foolish or unprofessional.
2. The Trigger: A WeChat Group Slip-up
In May 2024, a screenshot from a private WeChat group for bicycle dealers was leaked online. During a casual discussion about cycling races and riders, Stephen Cai used the phrase "Taiwanese national team" (台湾国家队).
For mainland Chinese citizens, referring to Taiwan as a "nation" or having a "national team" crosses a strict political red line regarding the One-China principle.
3. The Backlash and Boycott
The screenshot quickly went viral across Chinese cycling forums, Bilibili, and social media. Mainland cyclists were furious. They felt that the CEO of a successful Chinese brand—one that heavily markets itself as a proud "domestic brand" (国货) and profits from mainland consumers—was politically compromised.
This led to a massive wave of order cancellations, public boycotts, and heavy criticism. People accused him of "smashing the bowl after eating the food" (biting the hand that feeds him).
4. The Apology Video
Facing immense public pressure and a severe blow to the brand's reputation, Stephen Cai released an emergency public apology video late at night.
In the video, he looked solemn, bowed deeply to the camera, and admitted to his "poor choice of words and lack of political sensitivity."
He explicitly clarified his stance by stating firmly, "Taiwan is not a country," and begged the cycling community for forgiveness and a chance to make amends.
Summary
In short, the "Hua Cai" drama was a massive PR disaster caused by the CEO's careless wording in a group chat, which touched a very sensitive political nerve in China. While he quickly apologized and reaffirmed his pro-China stance to save the brand, the mocking nickname "Cauliflower" has permanently stuck to him in the domestic cycling community.
This image is a screenshot of a WeChat Moments post published around June 2025 by a physical bicycle dealership in mainland China named "Single Bike - Xiao Pan" (单车行-肖攀), referencing the file 银贝斯大清仓｜具体原因，如图所示_1_单车行-肖攀_来自小红书网页版.jpg.
It documents the real-world financial fallout and the severe breakdown in relations between Winspace and its offline dealers following the CEO's political PR crisis.
Here is the detailed English translation and breakdown of the post:
1. The Trigger (The Political Controversy)
The post starts by stating: "On May 22nd, Winspace's inappropriate remarks prompted us to reflect on the brand..." This explicitly confirms that the shop decided to boycott Winspace due to the incident where CEO Stephen Cai made the controversial "Taiwanese national team" remark in a dealer group chat.
2. Behind-the-Scenes Conflict Between the Shop and Winspace
The Initial Deal: After the controversy broke out, the shop decided to clear out its Winspace inventory. To suppress negative word-of-mouth, Winspace privately contacted the shop and promised to buy back all remaining stock, on the condition that the shop delete their social media posts calling for a boycott. Winspace promised to resolve everything by the end of May.
Winspace Backing Out: By June 5th, Winspace failed to follow through smoothly. Instead, they claimed that most of the frames failed "QC (Quality Control) inspections due to defects" and refused to take them back. The shop owner, Xiao Pan, furiously exposed this tactic, noting that they had shipped 13 brand-new, factory-sealed bikes back to Winspace. Winspace claimed that the number of frames passing QC was less than the number of boxes that hadn't even been opened yet. The shop called this "a blatant excuse to back out of the deal."
3. The Shop's Final Decision (The Fire Sale)
Feeling deceived and manipulated by the brand, the shop owner decided to cut ties completely and publicize the dispute, announcing an aggressive clearance policy:
Massive Price Cuts: The shop put all Winspace frames on a fire sale, slashing prices by 3,000 to 6,000 RMB (approx. $400 - $800 USD) per frame.
Taking Over the Warranty: Anticipating that Winspace would retaliate by refusing to honor product warranties for these cut-rate sales, the owner wrote: "If the brand acts shamelessly and refuses to provide after-sales service, our bike shop will take full financial and legal responsibility for the warranty."
Summary
This screenshot perfectly illustrates how the CEO's political slip-up didn't just hurt the brand's image among consumers—it actively damaged the livelihoods of its domestic dealer network. It led to a bitter, public fallout where a dealer chose to lose significant money, dump inventory at a massive discount, and absorb all future warranty risks just to sever ties with Winspace permanently.
-
This matter doesn't seems to have any indication that the winspace frame are bad or that the winspace boss is stupid.
-
This matter doesn't seems to have any indication that the winspace frame are bad or that the winspace boss is stupid.
You see, you could keep your opinion, I could have mine. The thoughts are different, if you like it, keep buying, no problem.
-
please do not debate with me for any politcs here.
Thanks for the clarification.
On Taiwan vs China, i believe in realpolitik. I think the west cares largely because of the dependence on the semi conductors industry. In terms of balance of power, it would be bad for the west if Taiwan were absorbed by China, because that would give China enormous leverage.
Beyond that, in truth, i think few people in the west care much. And i would bet that most of us are very ignorant of the topic.
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Issac Asimov (born 1920, died 1992)
-
Political roots of the dispute aside and working through some translation issues:
What i got from this is Winspace claimed that returns from a dealer that wanted out of their arrangement failed inspection and were damaged despite being in factory sealed boxes. The allegation is that Winspace was not honest with their dealers, correct? This is bad. If they are willing to do this to a dealer with a larger platform in the domestic market, what are the chances they will do right by a consumer halfway across the world with no leverage or platform?
Trust is what makes business work. To me, and people may call this foolish — trust that a supplier will do right by their orders matters more than price, more even than experience. In my still young foray into the bike industry, there have been more challenges than I expected, but a few issues on a product don't change the perspective. Doing the right things when things go wrong and not hiding the shit is how businesses build loyalty to each other. Yes, it's a very old-school, largely Western way of thinking about deal criteria, but it also speaks to a long-term intention to build something together. Culture and values matter — and there seem to be plenty of Chinese companies and people who agree with this view.
This also has nothing to do with Tavelo, right? So we should feel OK buying an Arden?
-
Political roots of the dispute aside and working through some translation issues:
What i got from this is Winspace claimed that returns from a dealer that wanted out of their arrangement failed inspection and were damaged despite being in factory sealed boxes. The allegation is that Winspace was not honest with their dealers, correct? This is bad. If they are willing to do this to a dealer with a larger platform in the domestic market, what are the chances they will do right by a consumer halfway across the world with no leverage or platform?
Trust is what makes business work. To me, and people may call this foolish — trust that a supplier will do right by their orders matters more than price, more even than experience. In my still young foray into the bike industry, there have been more challenges than I expected, but a few issues on a product don't change the perspective. Doing the right things when things go wrong and not hiding the shit is how businesses build loyalty to each other. Yes, it's a very old-school, largely Western way of thinking about deal criteria, but it also speaks to a long-term intention to build something together. Culture and values matter — and there seem to be plenty of Chinese companies and people who agree with this view.
This also has nothing to do with Tavelo, right? So we should feel OK buying an Arden?
The dealers want to stop selling WINSPACE after WINSPACE CEO Huacai’s principal statement of politic. So WINSPACE agrees but they want the dealers to delete the posts on social media, they don’t want the dealers to quit for this sensitive reason. The dealers don’t agree so WINSPACE rejected the return. That’s the story.
For TAVELO brand, I can not give any feedback, sorry for this, I don’t have friends riding Tavelo, myself never saw TAVELO in my city, Hangzhou.
-
Thanks for the clarification.
On Taiwan vs China, i believe in realpolitik. I think the west cares largely because of the dependence on the semi conductors industry. In terms of balance of power, it would be bad for the west if Taiwan were absorbed by China, because that would give China enormous leverage.
Beyond that, in truth, i think few people in the west care much. And i would bet that most of us are very ignorant of the topic.
“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.” ― Issac Asimov (born 1920, died 1992)
You’re welcome, I believe all friends here are bike loving people, so we should focus more on the bikes.
I read many same opinions of your on Facebook of some Taiwanese bicycle industry OG, his name is David Dai, now the mainland China industries and rest of the world are totally different. So that’s why you guys come to this forum right? Put politics aside let’s enjoy cycling and study new Chinese bicycle products too!
-
I am really interested in the Tavelo Arden. Currently trying to pre-order it with Underdogs Cycling in Toronto and have it shipped to the US. The owner of UDC (Edward) the "cracked blue" paint job can be ordered but it's 3 week wait time, which is fine. He quoted me $2050 shipped with the Riser bar upgrade ($50) for the non SL version. That original Arrow is $1650 and Rise bar $230 from Panda Podium would be $1930 before shipping, granted the rise bar is sold out on PP and can't be pre-ordered
I really want to use 35mm GP5000 S TR on these on a 23mm internal wheel, any chance this can be run 2X on Shimano Di2 FD?
As per the Winspace being a crappy brand I will say, they are just their own worse enemy IMO. I bought the T1500 Disc during the COVID boom and it was a very good bike with some glaring negatives even for the price. I then built a T1550 and a SLC3. After the SLC3 I refused to buy from Winspace anymore, not because the quality or the performance, but because every 6 months a new model would come out and essentially supersede the model you just bought. At least with Specialzed or Cannondale you don't have the FOMO once you buy since they traditionally run on three year cycles. You can complain about the raised prices and I think $2800+ for their frames no matter how good they think they are is just wrong because that's getting dangerously close to Western brands that actually have men's world tour teams, LBS support, and actual wind tunnel data ie a Specialized Tarmac SL8 frame is $3500 or now $3K on sale and has been the benchmark bike for years now. Why would I get an SLC5 over the SL8? Just like the T1550 shortly being superseded by the T1550 2nd gen we now have the T1600 Ultra now at $2550 from the T1600 $2400. I also have the qualm that Winspace borders of cheesy IMO, ie the T1600 Team Red Bull knockoff in the "Vuelta Red" just screams cringe. The other issue is that yeah Winspace got many people hooked on their Hyper Wheels, but have not come close to keeping up with people like Elite Wheels, CraftWorks, Farsports, and many other when it comes to specs and even price. My last issue with Winspace is that I live in the burbs of NYC and ride 9W often and for people not aware of 9W it's just a stretch of highway that a lot of people from NY/NJ use to cycle, however it's kind of a litmus test to see what people are riding and what's hot. Occasionally I will see Winspace bikes but a lot of them are he T1550 2nd gen probably because besides the M6 that was one of the last "affordable" frames they built. Either way I see so many Quick Pros now, which brings up the point that even though Quick Pro has one of the worse names it kind of has become the "it" brand for Chinese bikes now. If you ask the Nero boys, they feel the brand is overplayed in Australia.
Now this brings me to Tavelo. Patty in his video said it best, the owner of Tavelo isn't putting out a ton of different bikes. The Arrow still is out there after a couple year at the same $1650. They just got into gravel and the Arden is on the verge of being released. That would mean they have four models while Winspace has 10 active framesets.
Also funny story the guy from UDC was pretty competitive with Joe from Panda Podium. Not going to get into it but let's just say he probably isn't a massive fan of the guy. Secondly, he was defiantly pushing me towards the Incolor SR which has 38mm tire clearance. It's about $500 more and a more race geo, but as he put it, in his eyes Incolor is the Pinarello of China bikes quality wise and Tavelo might be Cannondale or Specialized quality. I am interested in the Incolor SR and Tavelo Arden mainly because I think big name Western brands have now hit a wall with road bikes, in that I think we are still at bare min two years away from being two years away from Western brands coming out with race bikes that officially can support a 35mm if not 40mm tire. I know a lot of old heads scoff at the idea of needing anything more than a 28mm tire let alone a 30mm-32mm tire, but I have said for ages give me more rubber! Just more comfort and faster overall and simply more versatile. Sure you can reverse engineer a progressive gravel bike like the Cervelo Aspero5 and put on some slicks, but that's a $8800 bike and that frame while awesome isn't what we call light at 1000g+. ie the Cervelo Aspero5 while an great do it all bike, is more akin to a last gen Aero bike, while this new Tavelo Arden could be like an all-road Gen 4 SuperSix EVO in the sub 900g range.
-
Here in Chicago our premier elite race team just received their Winspace M6s and T1550 earlier this month. Both the mens and women teams. A few of them will be at Nationals this weekend on said bikes. Sure there was a discount, but they still had to pay for them. I also get plenty of private messages from individuals customers who've recently purchased Winspace bikes.
Who or what is a real rider?
Patty I believe this 100% has to do with price point. When your local team is racing a $2850 Winspace let me know. To be fair I'll give Winspace their flowers for the M6, since it's an affordable aero bike that fixes the issues with the T1600 and SLC5 while providing modern features like UDH and is able to run Winspace's new bars.
The big problem for me with Winspace and why I ditched them was you can almost count on them coming out with something better in 6 months and them not really building the brand here in the US more. Hate them or love them especially with the Nero Shows critique of Quick Pro, but they actually did the right thing nailing down L39ion Los Angeles. As MKHD Marques Brownlee said it best, selling to enthusiasts is the worse, because they are not loyal to the brand but are mostly spec driven and will jump ship to anything better and while the enthusiast market while lucrative since these demos spend a lot of money, it's one of the smallest demographics out there. ie your average cyclist has no clue about Winspace or Winspace being ridden in your local teams or hell even in the Vuelta. Yes crit racing is niche, but in terms of reach Justin Williams in particular for L39ion are recognizable, not only because he has 116K Instagram followers, but because he helped launch the Specialized Allez Sprint, and because he a cyclist of color. ie I say this with all do respect to you Patty because I love your work, but instead of Winspace giving you, Charles Ouimet, or Petr Minarik Winspace bikes, put that time and money into getting the brand properly launched in America with a guy like Justin. Again, I love you Patty and you are the reason I am even on this sub or care about a lot about Chinese brands, but in terms of brand building and making Winspace "cool" again, yeah some of it is dumb luck like in getting this to go semi viral, but some of it is just being more strategic and like another poster alluded to, not being "dumb" and hanging a shipping container from a M6 frame. Who cares?
Winspace is the same company that birthed Tavelo, which has a total of four bikes if you count the Arden and Winspace has 10 current bike frames. This is the same company that let Joe from Panda Podium walk after he basically helped launch that brand and then essentially helped propel Quick Pro. So yeah when that poster said Winspace is "stupid" I kind of agree
-
I am really interested in the Tavelo Arden. Currently trying to pre-order it with Underdogs Cycling in Toronto and have it shipped to the US. The owner of UDC (Edward) the "cracked blue" paint job can be ordered but it's 3 week wait time, which is fine. He quoted me $2050 shipped with the Riser bar upgrade ($50) for the non SL version. That original Arrow is $1650 and Rise bar $230 from Panda Podium would be $1930 before shipping, granted the rise bar is sold out on PP and can't be pre-ordered
I really want to use 35mm GP5000 S TR on these on a 23mm internal wheel, any chance this can be run 2X on Shimano Di2 FD?
As per the Winspace being a crappy brand I will say, they are just their own worse enemy IMO. I bought the T1500 Disc during the COVID boom and it was a very good bike with some glaring negatives even for the price. I then built a T1550 and a SLC3. After the SLC3 I refused to buy from Winspace anymore, not because the quality or the performance, but because every 6 months a new model would come out and essentially supersede the model you just bought. At least with Specialzed or Cannondale you don't have the FOMO once you buy since they traditionally run on three year cycles. You can complain about the raised prices and I think $2800+ for their frames no matter how good they think they are is just wrong because that's getting dangerously close to Western brands that actually have men's world tour teams, LBS support, and actual wind tunnel data ie a Specialized Tarmac SL8 frame is $3500 or now $3K on sale and has been the benchmark bike for years now. Why would I get an SLC5 over the SL8? Just like the T1550 shortly being superseded by the T1550 2nd gen we now have the T1600 Ultra now at $2550 from the T1600 $2400. I also have the qualm that Winspace borders of cheesy IMO, ie the T1600 Team Red Bull knockoff in the "Vuelta Red" just screams cringe. The other issue is that yeah Winspace got many people hooked on their Hyper Wheels, but have not come close to keeping up with people like Elite Wheels, CraftWorks, Farsports, and many other when it comes to specs and even price. My last issue with Winspace is that I live in the burbs of NYC and ride 9W often and for people not aware of 9W it's just a stretch of highway that a lot of people from NY/NJ use to cycle, however it's kind of a litmus test to see what people are riding and what's hot. Occasionally I will see Winspace bikes but a lot of them are he T1550 2nd gen probably because besides the M6 that was one of the last "affordable" frames they built. Either way I see so many Quick Pros now, which brings up the point that even though Quick Pro has one of the worse names it kind of has become the "it" brand for Chinese bikes now. If you ask the Nero boys, they feel the brand is overplayed in Australia.
Now this brings me to Tavelo. Patty in his video said it best, the owner of Tavelo isn't putting out a ton of different bikes. The Arrow still is out there after a couple year at the same $1650. They just got into gravel and the Arden is on the verge of being released. That would mean they have four models while Winspace has 10 active framesets.
Also funny story the guy from UDC was pretty competitive with Joe from Panda Podium. Not going to get into it but let's just say he probably isn't a massive fan of the guy. Secondly, he was defiantly pushing me towards the Incolor SR which has 38mm tire clearance. It's about $500 more and a more race geo, but as he put it, in his eyes Incolor is the Pinarello of China bikes quality wise and Tavelo might be Cannondale or Specialized quality. I am interested in the Incolor SR and Tavelo Arden mainly because I think big name Western brands have now hit a wall with road bikes, in that I think we are still at bare min two years away from being two years away from Western brands coming out with race bikes that officially can support a 35mm if not 40mm tire. I know a lot of old heads scoff at the idea of needing anything more than a 28mm tire let alone a 30mm-32mm tire, but I have said for ages give me more rubber! Just more comfort and faster overall and simply more versatile. Sure you can reverse engineer a progressive gravel bike like the Cervelo Aspero5 and put on some slicks, but that's a $8800 bike and that frame while awesome isn't what we call light at 1000g+. ie the Cervelo Aspero5 while an great do it all bike, is more akin to a last gen Aero bike, while this new Tavelo Arden could be like an all-road Gen 4 SuperSix EVO in the sub 900g range.
Haha quite reasonable about the INCOLOR as Chinese Pinarello (the price only), but TAVELO currently is not Chinese Specialized or Cannodale for sure, I give the credit to Paruds, XDS, QUICK PRO as Chinese SW, TREK, Cannodale.
-
Patty I believe this 100% has to do with price point. When your local team is racing a $2850 Winspace let me know. To be fair I'll give Winspace their flowers for the M6, since it's an affordable aero bike that fixes the issues with the T1600 and SLC5 while providing modern features like UDH and is able to run Winspace's new bars.
The big problem for me with Winspace and why I ditched them was you can almost count on them coming out with something better in 6 months and them not really building the brand here in the US more. Hate them or love them especially with the Nero Shows critique of Quick Pro, but they actually did the right thing nailing down L39ion Los Angeles. As MKHD Marques Brownlee said it best, selling to enthusiasts is the worse, because they are not loyal to the brand but are mostly spec driven and will jump ship to anything better and while the enthusiast market while lucrative since these demos spend a lot of money, it's one of the smallest demographics out there. ie your average cyclist has no clue about Winspace or Winspace being ridden in your local teams or hell even in the Vuelta. Yes crit racing is niche, but in terms of reach Justin Williams in particular for L39ion are recognizable, not only because he has 116K Instagram followers, but because he helped launch the Specialized Allez Sprint, and because he a cyclist of color. ie I say this with all do respect to you Patty because I love your work, but instead of Winspace giving you, Charles Ouimet, or Petr Minarik Winspace bikes, put that time and money into getting the brand properly launched in America with a guy like Justin. Again, I love you Patty and you are the reason I am even on this sub or care about a lot about Chinese brands, but in terms of brand building and making Winspace "cool" again, yeah some of it is dumb luck like in getting this to go semi viral, but some of it is just being more strategic and like another poster alluded to, not being "dumb" and hanging a shipping container from a M6 frame. Who cares?
Winspace is the same company that birthed Tavelo, which has a total of four bikes if you count the Arden and Winspace has 10 current bike frames. This is the same company that let Joe from Panda Podium walk after he basically helped launch that brand and then essentially helped propel Quick Pro. So yeah when that poster said Winspace is "stupid" I kind of agree
And you guys also know the ship container hanging BS? LOL, so its same I believe real riders have the same common sense.
-
And you guys also know the ship container hanging BS? LOL, so its same I believe real riders have the same common sense.
It's also uncreative. Copying something Volvo did. I think Ford did a version of it too.
-
It's also uncreative. Copying something Volvo did. I think Ford did a version of it too.
Ofc it is, Huacai(owner of WINSPACE) himself does not even want to act same as VOLVO CEO or Chuck Norris.
-
Got in my pre-order with Underdog Cycling out of Toronto. I was great dealing with the owner Edward since I had a bunch of questions on the Incolor SR and the Tavelo Arden. As I mentioned to Edward, it's so nice not having to get on live chat at 9:00pm in NY and chat with Panda Podium or manufactures directly, when I can get most of my questions answered during normal US business hours.
Ordered the Tavelo Arden in "cracked blue" size 45/Small with the Riser bar in a 90x340.
Edward provided the insight that Tavelo for whatever reason is slower to produce the smaller sizes and he estimated my frame would take around 3wks to produce, but he would keep me up to date along the process and would provide an ETA asap.
This Tavelo Arden is replacing my Gen 4 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD. The reason is the stack and reach are basically spot on, while keeping the frame in a sub 900g weight. My SSE Hi-MOD is in the Rally Red and I have loved the bright red paint, exposed carbon on the top tube, and the nude black rear, but the Arden's crack blue paint job is just banging.
So why the Arden over arguably a great Western bike? UDH, similar stack race option to the Gen 4 SSE, and really one of the few Western or Chinese bikes that provides clearance to run 35mm-40mm tires. With a slew of bikes in 2025-2026 being released and NONE of them including plus tire clearance, it's safe to say we are stuck at 32mm-34mm clearance for the next 3+ years. Also the inclusion of the Riser bar is a major plus, since I am a big believer in high stack for holding position. The big question is can the Arden be run 2X on a 23mm-24mm internal wheel with 35mm GP5000 S TR. I know I hedging a lot on the ability to run larger than the standard 28mm-32mm race tires, but I truly think 35mm+ for road is the future
-
Again, I love you Patty and you are the reason I am even on this sub or care about a lot about Chinese brands, but in terms of brand building and making Winspace "cool" again, yeah some of it is dumb luck like in getting this to go semi viral, but some of it is just being more strategic and like another poster alluded to, not being "dumb" and hanging a shipping container from a M6 frame. Who cares?
A proper marketing rollout requires putting the product in the hands of individuals across all the key demographics. Obviously if a brand has the budget to do so. While this could be laterally, it tends to work best vertically. No different than in the auto or photography industries, respectively. Influencers, journalists, enthusiasts, etc.
NorCal Cycling - The professional crit race, analytics, and performance guy. Large YouTube following.
GC Performance - The proven high volume sales guy with a decade of industry experience. Also large following.
Hambini/Peak Torque - The expert engineers with a focus on safety and QC.
Legion/Pro Team - Street cred and social media.
Then there is myself. Near the bottom of totem pole as the average enthusiast with no actual professional experience in anything. I am a very low financial risk low reward option for brands. Yet my ROI is arguably and proportionally just as successful as any big time influencer. I know where I stand within the cycling influencer universe. But this marketing hierarchy strategy actually makes my job much easier when brands trickle down their new releases to me after having sent them to more seasoned Youtubers and professional athletes first.
The QuickPro ER One is good example of this. Now that the frame his been certified by actual high level athletes, it's far easier for me to convince QuickPro to average enthusiasts as an average dude myself.
But here is the thing: Local race teams on sponsored Chinese bikes are terrible at actually selling bikes. So kudos to QuickPro for signing on the famous Legion of LA. I highly doubt their partnership is profitable to QuickPro on the front end. 6-figure contract, large order of framesets. How many bikes/frame would QuickPro have to sell to offset those marketing expenses? But I'm sure it has indirectly generated more sales on the backend. At least on my end it has.
-
A proper marketing rollout requires putting the product in the hands of individuals across all the key demographics. Obviously if a brand has the budget to do so. While this could be laterally, it tends to work best vertically. No different than in the auto or photography industries, respectively. Influencers, journalists, enthusiasts, etc.
NorCal Cycling - The professional crit race, analytics, and performance guy. Large YouTube following.
GC Performance - The proven high volume sales guy with a decade of industry experience. Also large following.
Hambini/Peak Torque - The expert engineers with a focus on safety and QC.
Legion/Pro Team - Street cred and social media.
Then there is myself. Near the bottom of totem pole as the average enthusiast with no actual professional experience in anything. I am a very low financial risk low reward option for brands. Yet my ROI is arguably and proportionally just as successful as any big time influencer. I know where I stand within the cycling influencer universe. But this marketing hierarchy strategy actually makes my job much easier when brands trickle down their new releases to me after having sent them to more seasoned Youtubers and professional athletes first.
The QuickPro ER One is good example of this. Now that the frame his been certified by actual high level athletes, it's far easier for me to convince QuickPro to average enthusiasts as an average dude myself.
But here is the thing: Local race teams on sponsored Chinese bikes are terrible at actually selling bikes. So kudos to QuickPro for signing on the famous Legion of LA. I highly doubt their partnership is profitable to QuickPro on the front end. 6-figure contract, large order of framesets. How many bikes/frame would QuickPro have to sell to offset those marketing expenses? But I'm sure it has indirectly generated more sales on the backend. At least on my end it has.
I think thats the differenc between NA riders and Chinese riders, in China we do not buy bikes based on the influencers reviews too much, we only buy bikes from the forums comments or videos that no-follower riders reviews. I'd rather trust a video review with 30 followers than a 10k followers review video. Because all the so called influencers got paid to make content like that.
I do not need to put many brands national wide, but just 2 brands in my city, X-SOON and Kontax.
These two brands are from my city - Hangzhou, many so called cycling influencers rode XSOON before to brag how good it is, but now XSOON company is closed. You can not see XSOON bikes in daily riding, you could only see it on internet, so once XSOON closed down, those influencers now are riding Kontax bikes, same video content, same words, same no one ride this bike in daily.
When you go to Tieba (Chinese forum) to ask how is the Kontax frame, you will get the negative comments for sure.
Except those pro team bikes, this is how we choose frames, because we are very easy to get the first hand info from Chinese internet.
Not here to argue, just share my point of view.
-
I think thats the differenc between NA riders and Chinese riders, in China we do not buy bikes based on the influencers reviews too much, we only buy bikes from the forums comments or videos that no-follower riders reviews. I'd rather trust a video review with 30 followers than a 10k followers review video. Because all the so called influencers got paid to make content like that.
I do not need to put many brands national wide, but just 2 brands in my city, X-SOON and Kontax.
These two brands are from my city - Hangzhou, many so called cycling influencers rode XSOON before to brag how good it is, but now XSOON company is closed. You can not see XSOON bikes in daily riding, you could only see it on internet, so once XSOON closed down, those influencers now are riding Kontax bikes, same video content, same words, same no one ride this bike in daily.
When you go to Tieba (Chinese forum) to ask how is the Kontax frame, you will get the negative comments for sure.
Except those pro team bikes, this is how we choose frames, because we are very easy to get the first hand info from Chinese internet.
Not here to argue, just share my point of view.
Interesting insight, in Europd the influencer thing only seems to affect a small part of, mostly young, cyclists.
You mentionig Kontax make me courious, cause I once started a thread about the Kontax Surposs Pro. Looks interesting to me, but nobody in the West seems to have any info about that one, let alone experience with it. How is that frame viewed in China?
-
I think thats the differenc between NA riders and Chinese riders, in China we do not buy bikes based on the influencers reviews too much, we only buy bikes from the forums comments or videos that no-follower riders reviews. I'd rather trust a video review with 30 followers than a 10k followers review video. Because all the so called influencers got paid to make content like that.
I do not need to put many brands national wide, but just 2 brands in my city, X-SOON and Kontax.
These two brands are from my city - Hangzhou, many so called cycling influencers rode XSOON before to brag how good it is, but now XSOON company is closed. You can not see XSOON bikes in daily riding, you could only see it on internet, so once XSOON closed down, those influencers now are riding Kontax bikes, same video content, same words, same no one ride this bike in daily.
When you go to Tieba (Chinese forum) to ask how is the Kontax frame, you will get the negative comments for sure.
Except those pro team bikes, this is how we choose frames, because we are very easy to get the first hand info from Chinese internet.
Not here to argue, just share my point of view.
Very good point. And my opinion is exactly the same. If I am deciding on buying component/frame/wheels/bike, I will always look at reviews from other non-influencer riders from forums and (small) YouTube channels.
And do not get me wrong. I love Pattys reviews (and many others), and I watch them all. But when buying something, I always look if there is a discount code, or even if the reviewed product was given for free, as I then know, it is a paid review, and I must take that review with a pinch of salt.
The only real decider from these influencer is, when there is a video with side to side comparison of multiple same catagory products (even if they are all advertised).
-
Interesting insight, in Europd the influencer thing only seems to affect a small part of, mostly young, cyclists.
You mentionig Kontax make me courious, cause I once started a thread about the Kontax Surposs Pro. Looks interesting to me, but nobody in the West seems to have any info about that one, let alone experience with it. How is that frame viewed in China?
Thank you for your asking my friend, Kontax brand, tbh I am a little curious too, because there is a cycling influencer in my city with more than 50k follower in both Bilibili and Rednote
He said Kontax is a big factory not like XSOON, I remember 2 years ago Kontax opened a shop near my office here in Liangzhu, Hangzhou. At that time we were surprised about this brand, never heard but sold too expensive, in 2026 after XSOON faded, it seems Kontax is beginning to promote more and more.
https://space.bilibili.com/3546585111726563
This influencer first sold WINSPACE, later he began to sell XSOON, after these two brands market future compromised, he now started to promote Kontax.
My friend bought herself and her daught a Kontax folding bike and child bike from this local Kontax shop, she does not know too much about bikes, just like the design/looking.
Other than that, I dont see many reviews of Kontax too. No discussions.
This is pretty much information I got of Kontax, I can not really give you any review or judge, but not very well known here yet.
Kontax Chinese name is 超探, so if you could use Tieba or Rednot or bilibili, you may check it for more Chinese reviews.
-
Very good point. And my opinion is exactly the same. If I am deciding on buying component/frame/wheels/bike, I will always look at reviews from other non-influencer riders from forums and (small) YouTube channels.
And do not get me wrong. I love Pattys reviews (and many others), and I watch them all. But when buying something, I always look if there is a discount code, or even if the reviewed product was given for free, as I then know, it is a paid review, and I must take that review with a pinch of salt.
The only real decider from these influencer is, when there is a video with side to side comparison of multiple same catagory products (even if they are all advertised).
Thank you for your sharing. I want to add on some points more, like I replied to other post here on this forum, I signed up for this forum is just because I bought a THINKRIDER PP5 powermeter, and I checked many advertised video contents in China, also many non-influencer reviews, but the thing is they almost have the same results, in the end there is not many real professional reviews like Shanes, so I googled it and found it here. I think the reason I posted so many here is just want to close the info gap bewteen Chinese cyclists and overseas cyclists, even my English is poor need to use AI to explain details to you.
We need more professional reviews, and you need more first hand information.
-
We need more professional reviews, and you need more first hand information.
I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I do really wish we had more YouTubers etc. going to China to test ride and showcase local brands' bikes, not just the same old repetitive factory tours. It's crazy that SUNPEED, one of the bigger budget brands in China, is only now getting showcased on a notable YouTube channel. Instead, all we get is China Cycling showcasing the most overpriced stuff you can find in China and China Rides doing a review after a 30 min ride around the block, while all the YouTubers visiting the country make videos of similar looking factories.
(Would be fun to see some content on different routes on YouTube, too, since from my experience, China feels like the best place in the world to ride. Qiandaohu beats Lake Como any day of the week!)
-
I hope this isn't too off-topic, but I do really wish we had more YouTubers etc. going to China to test ride and showcase local brands' bikes, not just the same old repetitive factory tours. It's crazy that SUNPEED, one of the bigger budget brands in China, is only now getting showcased on a notable YouTube channel. Instead, all we get is China Cycling showcasing the most overpriced stuff you can find in China and China Rides doing a review after a 30 min ride around the block, while all the YouTubers visiting the country make videos of similar looking factories.
(Would be fun to see some content on different routes on YouTube, too, since from my experience, China feels like the best place in the world to ride. Qiandaohu beats Lake Como any day of the week!)
Can't agree more, luckily I live in Hangzhou, very close to Qiandao hu(thousands lakes), I also have been to Como lake in Milano for EICMA, but I didnt have a chance to cycle there, for me the difference is the route, Qiandaohu is more like a flat route, 134km with 500-700m climb, Como lake seems a moutain route, the place beside Como lake is the finish line of Il Lombardia. But the scenery are both very beautiful.
Hope you guys could come to visit Hangzhou someday we can ride together.
-
Can we see somewhere some real photos and geometry data of this frame?
-
Photos: https://tavelo.cc/products/tavelo-arden-race-frameset?VariantsId=11802
Geometry and specs: Apparently they don't think they are very important
Makes me wonder if the Chinese prices are low enough.
Crappy sites and information. Many times need to talk directly with people. Questionable service and huge delays to get the product (or the replacement). Obviously no physical shops to go and check/test the items you will buy and later complain if needed :P
Anyway....going back to make excuses that I need the XMCS VRT and a new set of chinese wheelset
-
Tavelo is an odd company. They genuinely have a product that maybe only a few Western brands offer spec wise in the Arden, ie 35mm+ tire clearance with an aero do it all bike and there was genuine excitement over the product since Sea Otter, yet they totally have missed the boat in marketing and launching the Arden. I tried contacting Tavelo direct multiple times trying to place a pre-order with zero response. I fell across Underdog Cycling in Toronto that took my pre-order. Skya Sports that Patty Lino has mentioned and worked with had zero info or ability to order in North America. Besides this forum, it was only Underdog Cycling that had a geo chart and more importantly pricing. Tavelo fumbled a bit with Peak Torque but kind of rebounded, so you think they want to nail the launch of the Arden, because I have been told the Arden will replace the Arrow. I remember contacting UDC in early July and UDC telling me Tavelo was just getting back from Euro Bike at the end of June and that's why they had not launched the Arden, yeah then weeks went by with no launch. UDC kept telling me they officially couldn't launch the Arden on their site until Tavelo did. It's just so weird because it wasn't until the third week of July Tavelo started taking pre-orders for the Arden and even then there is no geo chart, no picking sizes, and the riser bar is missing a few widths and sizes that are offered if you order it separately. The Arden isn't even listed under their road bike page and you think they want it plastered on their front of their webpage, but just no mention of it unless you search Arden on their site. Just weird. Also the colorways are just weird. The SLURM Arctic Volt, Black Pop, Blue-Pink for the Race model all kind of suck. The black SL version is well just black and probably done for weight savings. The one color everyone loved in the cracked blue marble paint seen at Sea Otter is being offered sort of but no mention about it with Tavelo directly or places like SSPADE (NA Seller), Creative Cycles Workshop (Australia), Ti Parts (Singapore), CCACHE (Australia), Under Dog Cycling (Toronto),
The crazy thing about Tavelo is I am fully behind them. I like how they are former Winspace guys (I like Winspace products) but they aren't cranking out models non stop like Winspace so you don't get FOMO and it allows the bike to mature. I love the price since their frames truly start under $2K. I like their ability to read the market and deliver cool tech like riser bars, larger clearance, and add features like threaded bottom brackets and put out some pretty great wheels starting at $1K.
-
Tavelo really shot themselves in the foot by allowing QuickPro USA to steal literally their market share as the premium Chinese alternative to Western brands. Specifically here in the USA that is.
Local amateur crit teams and athletes are jumping on the ER One bandwagon. The Tavelo Arden should have been ready for official release back when it was unveiled at Sea Otter in April.
Notice how when Specialized removed the media embargo for the SL9 release, the frame was immediately available for purchase on their website. And all their authorized dealers already had inventory on site. Chinese brands need to reconsider their strategy when releasing new products.
-
As per the Winspace being a crappy brand I will say, they are just their own worse enemy IMO. I bought the T1500 Disc during the COVID boom and it was a very good bike with some glaring negatives even for the price. I then built a T1550 and a SLC3. After the SLC3 I refused to buy from Winspace anymore, not because the quality or the performance, but because every 6 months a new model would come out and essentially supersede the model you just bought. At least with Specialzed or Cannondale you don't have the FOMO once you buy since they traditionally run on three year cycles.
I read this and I laugh. FOMO is YOUR issue, not an issue with Winspace. You can't blame Winspace because you lack control and falling for marketing propaganda.
-
Even though you’ve put it rather harshly, I do agree with you to some extent. However, the sheer volume and number of models released by Winspace do give the impression that they’ve been put together without much thought or a clear concept.
-
Even though you’ve put it rather harshly, I do agree with you to some extent. However, the sheer volume and number of models released by Winspace do give the impression that they’ve been put together without much thought or a clear concept.
I don't get this "sheer volume and number of models". They have an aero line that's :T1500, T1550 and T1600/Ultra and M6. The all rounder is SL3, SLC5 and Agile. T1500 was first released in 2017, so four aero models in 9 years. SLC3 was in 2024, and SLC in 2025. Does that seem a lot?
Giant releases a new updated model TCR and Propel every single year.
I guess I am playing devils advocate here, as its not fair to always blame manufacturers. Its their job to sell bikes/frames in volume for profit.
-
Even though you’ve put it rather harshly, I do agree with you to some extent. However, the sheer volume and number of models released by Winspace do give the impression that they’ve been put together without much thought or a clear concept.
I think its just a more iterative approach. It does kind of nuke the value of their frames as you know something newer/better is just around the corner. But the hope is kind of that the price is cheap enough that it doesnt matter.
-
I remember peak torque not able to use an aluminium BB on his tavelo before it would have cracked the frame. Imagine sending a YouTuber a frame that's so wildly out of spec you could crack it installing a BB. Even Cannondale never managed to get that bad.
That buff dude on YouTube who just did the tyre testing got a tavelo and the bearings are so loose you can make music shaking the frame.
On paper, Arden good indeed.
The brand is brand new, and if the lore is true (winspace guys), there's an open question around manufacturing. Quality. Volume. Both.
-
I don't get this "sheer volume and number of models". They have an aero line that's :T1500, T1550 and T1600/Ultra and M6. The all rounder is SL3, SLC5 and Agile. T1500 was first released in 2017, so four aero models in 9 years. SLC3 was in 2024, and SLC in 2025. Does that seem a lot?
Giant releases a new updated model TCR and Propel every single year.
I guess I am playing devils advocate here, as its not fair to always blame manufacturers. Its their job to sell bikes/frames in volume for profit.
It is incorrect to say that Giant releases updates to the Propel and TCR frames every year: in both cases, the frame remains the same and—as is usually the case—has an average lifespan of three years; what changes are the colors and the build specifications or components. ;)
-
Tavelo really shot themselves in the foot by allowing QuickPro USA to steal literally their market share as the premium Chinese alternative to Western brands. Specifically here in the USA that is.
Local amateur crit teams and athletes are jumping on the ER One bandwagon. The Tavelo Arden should have been ready for official release back when it was unveiled at Sea Otter in April.
Notice how when Specialized removed the media embargo for the SL9 release, the frame was immediately available for purchase on their website. And all their authorized dealers already had inventory on site. Chinese brands need to reconsider their strategy when releasing new products.
I agree but it's also so weird because UDC mentioned that Tavelo is huge in Belgium because the teams they sponsor. Who am I to say how Tavelo spends their money, but IMO it just seems like the wrong marketing play. I think Tavelo easily could have been the next Quick Pro and maybe still can with a lot of content creators like yourself gearing up for Arden builds ie Nero Show, Julius Domroes, maybe Peak Torque and with the right review and testing to back it up I do think a sub $2K bike with all the 2026 features can kill it. The issue is, the Arden launch has me worried they can come close to keeping up with the demand. Hate it or love it, at least Quick Pro USA has a distribution that seemingly can keep up with demand.
-
I read this and I laugh. FOMO is YOUR issue, not an issue with Winspace. You can't blame Winspace because you lack control and falling for marketing propaganda.
It's not a lack of control it's just a completely different model. I have had three Winspace frames over five years and I managed to luckily sell them at cost basically, but IMO again when every other Western brand moves on a 3 year product cycle and even someone like Tavelo, Evolve, Seka are carefully releasing bikes on a 1+ year span, yeah it feels like Winspace it just Beta testing on it's consumers. Max from The Watt Life explained it via Winspace having a full design team, thus they are really just cranking out projects without a ton of thought. This doesn't take away from Winspace being good bikes, but IMO the reason I buy Chinese products isn't even price, granted that helps, but more so it's providing features Western brands simply do not provide yet. Thus if you are going to crank out projects constantly, just put more thought into how these bikes not only compare to benchmark bikes like the SL8/SL9 or S5, but how can you provide an inherent feature(s) that makes these bikes worth while, because in the end Winspace has become like OnePlus in that they are just a "value" brand or more so an enthusiast brand, where yes you have rabid cycling people who want the latest and greatest and will spend, but as Marques Brownlee noted these are the most fickle customers who will jump ship the most.
Sure Tavelo and the Arden could just be the next flavor of 2026, but what has me confident that the Arden has found a real niche is that very few Western brands have a bike like this, not saying they can't develop one, but with all the 2025/2026 bike releases basically done and Western brands running on a three year span, it would be slim if Cannondale revised the Gen 5 SSE to accept 35mm tires and offered a riser bar. It be slim that Specialized would do the same for the SL9 and even revise a Roval Rapide CLXIII that was just released June 2025 to meet even the dimensions a Reserve wheel does. Heck Roval's Rapide Cockpit while refreshed IMO is still a tad behind in progressive fits in that the narrowest bar while better is still just 36cm and the the move to a shorter drop is just missed with the current ones having a pretty massive 127mm drop
-
It is incorrect to say that Giant releases updates to the Propel and TCR frames every year: in both cases, the frame remains the same and—as is usually the case—has an average lifespan of three years; what changes are the colors and the build specifications or components. ;)
Ok, :) then its the roughly the same case with Winspace. No?
T1500 release date 2017
T1550 release date late 2022
T1550 gen 2 release date Mid 2024
T1600 release date 2025
I guess what I am trying to say, is NOONE on these forums, is even remotely good enough rider to notice any difference between these frame models. Its all marketing propaganda. You think someone lost a crit race because they were riding T1500 and not T1600 ?
My point is FOMO aka "upgradeitis" is the issue of consumer and should not the reason to gauge a manufacturer.
Personally I would not buy Winspace based on brand/price/value/resale perspective and recent reports of bad customer service.
-
you are right if you are only talking about the T series and you are forgetting the new T1600 Ultra, but the issue is that you have the Agile, SLC, C Series, and now M Series and that's just road. I believe the T1500 launched in Late 2019 early 2020, either way that's five T series bikes and the T1500 didn't get popular until 2021 durring the COVID boom and YouTube Influencer craze, Patty can chime in on this. Thus Winspace have had launched five T series bikes in the span of six years. That's insane
I would agree and disagree. As someone who has road multiple T series and the SLC3 I would say they are very different. If you are talking about the differences between a T1550 Gen 1 and Gen 2 sure, yeah the differences are like the Spiderman meme
-
BSA and UDH on the same frame definitely caught my eye. If the ride quality is good, this could end up being a pretty interesting option for the price.
-
Ok, :) then its the roughly the same case with Winspace. No?
T1500 release date 2017
T1550 release date late 2022
T1550 gen 2 release date Mid 2024
T1600 release date 2025
I guess what I am trying to say, is NOONE on these forums, is even remotely good enough rider to notice any difference between these frame models. Its all marketing propaganda. You think someone lost a crit race because they were riding T1500 and not T1600 ?
My point is FOMO aka "upgradeitis" is the issue of consumer and should not the reason to gauge a manufacturer.
Personally I would not buy Winspace based on brand/price/value/resale perspective and recent reports of bad customer service.
Hi,
to clarify, my previous point referred to what you wrote (incorrectly) about Giant models; if you’re asking whether the Winspace case is similar, my answer is no.
The latest Propel was unveiled in March 2026, and the previous model in August 2022... yet in that same timeframe, the Winspace T frame underwent three updates (including the T1600 Ultra).
I won't go into the details of the differences between the various versions or whether they are noticeably different, because, honestly, I’m not interested in that, and it wasn't the point of my comment. ;)
-
so much words...btw you don't have to buy the latest. be it Winspace, Apple or whatsoever.
saying that, honestly we are all a bit prone of FOMO, right?
and maybe we "western" consumers overestimate our impact. Still Chinese markets are way more important for those manufacturers, though I admit, for big brands global acknowledgment becomes more important.
And another fact that may be overlooked is the more vertical integration of Chinese companies.
its way more easy for them to implement smaller iterations over a product cycle. and then rename it (t1500, t1550, t1600..)
if you look at BEV car development, its very similar. Chinese brands push out new models/updated models like eggs on a chicken farm.