Difficult to say by comparing the 3D rendering with real pictures, but is Speeder Cycling the OEM of the Tavelo Arow frame?

People have suspected that Speeder is the OEM for Winspace and Tavelo are ex-Winspace employees....

Perhaps ltwoo should focus on getting erx/er9 right before releasing other products. Maybe this is just the difference between our German and the Chinese mindset. It seems like Chinese products are in a perpetual alpha phase of product development with so many amateur issues cropping up. So far I'm seeing a lot of er9/erx issues that should be weeded out very much prior to any sort of release is even contemplated. Don't they have any pride?

That would increase their cost thus price to consumers. China factories aren't magic where they can build the same quality and reliability at half the cost. They are consciously making this decision to fill in a gap in the market for value buyers.

Sounds like Ltwoo is getting there. If panda podium starts selling the set, then I think that's a pretty good endorsement. That being said, the price seems bit too high still for me.

Doesn't look good to me. Foil looks way "aero" 

Finished up my 177 build a couple of weeks ago and have been making a few final aesthetic touches.

Overall, really happy with how it turned out and how it rides. Zero issues putting the build together. Moved most of the parts over from my 168 except for the Magene Exar Ultra wheels which are new, carbon saddle from AliX and tubeless version of the Goodyear Eagle F1s I was running prior (which were constantly getting flats btw).

VeloBuild VB-R-177 frame
Magene EXAR Ultra 50/58 wheelset
Magene P325CS Dual PM
Hammerhead Karoo 2 computer
Magene L508 radar light
ZTTO BB86 threaded ceramic BB
MIXED Ultra Light 7D MAX Carbon Saddle 140MM
Goodyear Eagle F1 tubeless tires
11sp Di2 frankenmix
L-TWOO ospw

Really happy I made the switch, the 177 is not only a bit lighter but the main highlight coming over from the 168 I would say is how much stiffer it feels. I also like that although I think it's modelled after a Scott Addict, it looks a bit more unique given how common the SL7 which the 168 is designed after is. I think it's Velobuilds best road frame.

Currently using the original HB011 bars from my 168 which I'm considering swapping as it's the only piece with noticeable flex now that I have a stiffer frame and wheels. Only issue I had was that the moulding where the rear hanger outer piece goes seems to have some excess material, which changes the angle of the thread a bit and make the TA screw in a bit tougher than it should be. Aside from that, everything was smooth.

https://imgur.com/mtYh8Sh
https://imgur.com/mdJxEXI
https://imgur.com/tvRp4Ns
https://imgur.com/NpP7zyz
https://imgur.com/KhaujkN
https://imgur.com/pW3z35v

How are the Magene EXARs treating you?

Looking forward to your review.

This Seraph branded X38 looks sick
https://www.instagram.com/reel/CsvXP9NMupb/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

https://www.seraphbikes.com/chameleon-paint-full-hidden-cable-disc-road-bike-frame-tt-x38-t47-thread-available-474952545658cm-size-p4773685.html

Wonder if we can order that paint without the ugly logos haha

So I ended up ordering an x38 frameset last night.

Size 56, raw unpainted, 400/120 integrated handlebars. Total was about $700 with UPS shipping and PayPal fees. They quoted me 15-20 days for production time. Lisa from Tan Tan responded promptly to all of my emails and questions. Here are my reasons for the x38:

1. Frame design - I think the x38 looks just unique enough to standout in a world of brands trying to follow the Specialized SL7 design philosophy. This is coming from an Allez Sprint and VB-168 owner. I understand why the Tarmac SL7 is so popular, but it's nice to see an actual aero frame be released (albeit a Scott Foil clone/inspiration).

2. Geometry - The size 56 is both taller in stack and shorter in reach than my typical setup. However, it's clear this frame was inspired by a TT bike. The trend these days is for riders to optimize their bike position more forward over the bottom bracket and on the hoods rather than the drops. Basically a TT position on the hoods. So the geometry makes a lot of sense. My attempt is to replicate this position 

3. T47 - Threaded bottom brackets on cheap frames have a high chance to be a nightmare. This is part of the reason I ordered the frame unpainted. It will make for good (or bad) video content.

Overall I'm not expecting this frame to be mind-blowing. At best it would be similar to my Dengfu R12 (also a SL7 clone) which is by far the stiffest frame I've tested for a budget Chinese frame. At worst it's a noodle like my VB-168 but I doubt it based on the design especially around the bottom bracket and thickness of the seatpost and fork.

I'll report back in a month...

Awesome, I am very interested in the frame too. Can't wait for the vid!

I have yet to find a problem for this solution. Did you buy it for the looks? Serious question (because that, I would totally get).

Going off on a tangent, I feel like "3D printing" is used way too much for marketing buzz these days, as if it was some super awesome bordering-on-magic rocket technology stuff and better at everything, just by default.

I think the advantage is to achieve similar level of comfort, a foam saddle would be heavier. Pliable honey comb like structures are not new. It's the main selling point of ON running shoes. 3D printing is what makes it possible to even produce such a saddle.