you are right if you are only talking about the T series and you are forgetting the new T1600 Ultra, but the issue is that you have the Agile, SLC, C Series, and now M Series and that's just road.  I believe the T1500 launched in Late 2019 early 2020, either way that's five T series bikes and the T1500 didn't get popular until 2021 durring the COVID boom and YouTube Influencer craze, Patty can chime in on this.  Thus Winspace have had launched five T series bikes in the span of six years.  That's insane

I would agree and disagree.  As someone who has road multiple T series and the SLC3 I would say they are very different.  If you are talking about the differences between a T1550 Gen 1 and Gen 2 sure, yeah the differences are like the Spiderman meme

Tavelo really shot themselves in the foot by allowing QuickPro USA to steal literally their market share as the premium Chinese alternative to Western brands. Specifically here in the USA that is.

Local amateur crit teams and athletes are jumping on the ER One bandwagon. The Tavelo Arden should have been ready for official release back when it was unveiled at Sea Otter in April.

Notice how when Specialized removed the media embargo for the SL9 release, the frame was immediately available for purchase on their website. And all their authorized dealers already had inventory on site. Chinese brands need to reconsider their strategy when releasing new products.

I agree but it's also so weird because UDC mentioned that Tavelo is huge in Belgium because the teams they sponsor.  Who am I to say how Tavelo spends their money, but IMO it just seems like the wrong marketing play.  I think Tavelo easily could have been the next Quick Pro and maybe still can with a lot of content creators like yourself gearing up for Arden builds ie Nero Show, Julius Domroes, maybe Peak Torque and with the right review and testing to back it up I do think a sub $2K bike with all the 2026 features can kill it.  The issue is, the Arden launch has me worried they can come close to keeping up with the demand.  Hate it or love it, at least Quick Pro USA has a distribution that seemingly can keep up with demand.   

Got in my pre-order with Underdog Cycling out of Toronto.  I was great dealing with the owner Edward since I had a bunch of questions on the Incolor SR and the Tavelo Arden.  As I mentioned to Edward, it's so nice not having to get on live chat at 9:00pm in NY and chat with Panda Podium or manufactures directly, when I can get most of my questions answered during normal US business hours. 

Ordered the Tavelo Arden in "cracked blue" size 45/Small with the Riser bar in a 90x340. 

Edward provided the insight that Tavelo for whatever reason is slower to produce the smaller sizes and he estimated my frame would take around 3wks to produce, but he would keep me up to date along the process and would provide an ETA asap. 

This Tavelo Arden is replacing my Gen 4 SuperSix EVO Hi-MOD.  The reason is the stack and reach are basically spot on, while keeping the frame in a sub 900g weight.  My SSE Hi-MOD is in the Rally Red and I have loved the bright red paint, exposed carbon on the top tube, and the nude black rear, but the Arden's crack blue paint job is just banging.

So why the Arden over arguably a great Western bike?  UDH, similar stack race option to the Gen 4 SSE, and really one of the few Western or Chinese bikes that provides clearance to run 35mm-40mm tires.  With a slew of bikes in 2025-2026 being released and NONE of them including plus tire clearance, it's safe to say we are stuck at 32mm-34mm clearance for the next 3+ years.  Also the inclusion of the Riser bar is a major plus, since I am a big believer in high stack for holding position.  The big question is can the Arden be run 2X on a 23mm-24mm internal wheel with 35mm GP5000 S TR.  I know I hedging a lot on the ability to run larger than the standard 28mm-32mm race tires, but I truly think 35mm+ for road is the future

I am really interested in the Tavelo Arden.  Currently trying to pre-order it with Underdogs Cycling in Toronto and have it shipped to the US.  The owner of UDC (Edward) the "cracked blue" paint job can be ordered but it's 3 week wait time, which is fine.  He quoted me $2050 shipped with the Riser bar upgrade ($50) for the non SL version.  That original Arrow is $1650 and Rise bar $230 from Panda Podium would be $1930 before shipping, granted the rise bar is sold out on PP and can't be pre-ordered 

I really want to use 35mm GP5000 S TR on these on a 23mm internal wheel, any chance this can be run 2X on Shimano Di2 FD?

 As per the Winspace being a crappy brand I will say, they are just their own worse enemy IMO.  I bought the T1500 Disc during the COVID boom and it was a very good bike with some glaring negatives even for the price.  I then built a T1550 and a SLC3.  After the SLC3 I refused to buy from Winspace anymore, not because the quality or the performance, but because every 6 months a new model would come out and essentially supersede the model you just bought.  At least with Specialzed or Cannondale you don't have the FOMO once you buy since they traditionally run on three year cycles.  You can complain about the raised prices and I think $2800+ for their frames no matter how good they think they are is just wrong because that's getting dangerously close to Western brands that actually have men's world tour teams, LBS support, and actual wind tunnel data ie a Specialized Tarmac SL8 frame is $3500 or now $3K on sale and has been the benchmark bike for years now.  Why would I get an SLC5 over the SL8?  Just like the T1550 shortly being superseded by the T1550 2nd gen we now have the T1600 Ultra now at $2550 from the T1600 $2400.  I also have the qualm that Winspace borders of cheesy IMO, ie the T1600 Team Red Bull knockoff in the "Vuelta Red" just screams cringe.  The other issue is that yeah Winspace got many people hooked on their Hyper Wheels, but have not come close to keeping up with people like Elite Wheels, CraftWorks, Farsports, and many other when it comes to specs and even price.  My last issue with Winspace is that I live in the burbs of NYC and ride 9W often and for people not aware of 9W it's just a stretch of highway that a lot of people from NY/NJ use to cycle, however it's kind of a litmus test to see what people are riding and what's hot.  Occasionally I will see Winspace bikes but a lot of them are he T1550 2nd gen probably because besides the M6 that was one of the last "affordable" frames they built.  Either way I see so many Quick Pros now, which brings up the point that even though Quick Pro has one of the worse names it kind of has become the "it" brand for Chinese bikes now.  If you ask the Nero boys, they feel the brand is overplayed in Australia.

Now this brings me to Tavelo.  Patty in his video said it best, the owner of Tavelo isn't putting out a ton of different bikes.  The Arrow still is out there after a couple year at the same $1650.  They just got into gravel and the Arden is on the verge of being released.  That would mean they have four models while Winspace has 10 active framesets.       

Also funny story the guy from UDC was pretty competitive with Joe from Panda Podium.  Not going to get into it but let's just say he probably isn't a massive fan of the guy.  Secondly, he was defiantly pushing me towards the Incolor SR which has 38mm tire clearance.  It's about $500 more and a more race geo, but as he put it, in his eyes Incolor is the Pinarello of China bikes quality wise and Tavelo might be Cannondale or Specialized quality.  I am interested in the Incolor SR and Tavelo Arden mainly because I think big name Western brands have now hit a wall with road bikes, in that I think we are still at bare min two years away from being two years away from Western brands coming out with race bikes that officially can support a 35mm if not 40mm tire.  I know a lot of old heads scoff at the idea of needing anything more than a 28mm tire let alone a 30mm-32mm tire, but I have said for ages give me more rubber!  Just more comfort and faster overall and simply more versatile.  Sure you can reverse engineer a progressive gravel bike like the Cervelo Aspero5 and put on some slicks, but that's a $8800 bike and that frame while awesome isn't what we call light at 1000g+.  ie the Cervelo Aspero5 while an great do it all bike, is more akin to a last gen Aero bike, while this new Tavelo Arden could be like an all-road Gen 4 SuperSix EVO in the sub 900g range. 

Most people don't care about resale value because they don't sell their bikes or frames anymore; instead, they ride them until they end up cut into pieces in the trash or sit in the basement or garage for years. That said, I would never buy a frame from Winspace for the price of an SLC5. However, I would also never buy an S-Works or something similar from a Western company at those prices. And i would absolutely never buy a used frame, no matter how expensive it was once.

I'd disagree, unless you are like Patty Lino who is just rolling though China frames for content on YouTube, I think resale does matter since these China brands move through product cycles extremely fast which is a pro and a con.  Chinese D2C are able to easily  re-tune or recreate a frame on the fly year to year, heck even every 6 months in the case of Winspace, but with the downside that there is a fear that you buy a Chinese frame and in 6 months it's already dated in terms of specs, and since these frames really rely on "value" and spec hunting, a lot of people who buys these bikes are not doing so to buy a "lifetime" bike or a bike they probably will use for the next 5+ years.  In contrast if you buy a Specialized or whatever, you are paying a premium but you have the satisfaction they run on a three year product cycle, thus when the SL9 comes out this year, you can rest easy it's not going to be revised 6 months later. 

I personally have fallen for this Chinese spec chasing trap and combined with the major increase of D2C Chinese bike frame costs now being $2K-$3K, I personally don't see the reason to go Chinese (frames) unless they are offering a spec and/or value that a Western brand simply isn't offering yet, ie this Tavelo Arden since there is now maybe one aero bike that support a true 35mm tire, ie the Canyon Endurace CFR which isn't even available yet in the US and two it's only a complete bike in Shimano DA at $10K+.  So I can see this Tavelo Arden actually ticking a lot of boxes, however the big names in Trek, Specialized, Giant, and so on all have to see these trends coming right?  Right?  You would expect they have something in the pipeline.  The fact that a good deal of Western race bikes have been released already in early 2026 and tire clearance hasn't really expanded at all, would indicate these Western brands are still at least a generation behind the ultra wide tire clearance trend

I honestly don't know how you would rate the aero performance on a frame that clearly does not fit you. Your saddle is way low and you have huge amounts of spacers in. You must sit very upright. 80% of aero is counting on your body position and yours is clearly not in any way aero on that bike.

If your Scott foil fits you better, no wonder you don't feel as fast on the SLC 3.

I don't claim the SLC 3 has big aero features, but I did ride mine next to people in a race on aero bikes and 20kg weight advantage and did not feel like I missed that much, when riding in a good low position.

Nothing against your personal experience, but I honestly would argue that yours can't be taken as a good example, when talking about aero performance.

I would disagree the bike doesn't fit.  I purposely am running the full stack for a more "amateur" setup for longer rides.  As per the lack of seat post, ever see a non modern CAAD?  The SLC just isn't a really compact frame, maybe semi compact at best and combine that with my shorter legs, thus I don't have massive seat post showing.  It's true that will effect how I perceive the aero abilities of the bike, but I could also argue the lack of weight and larger tubing profiles make it easily apparent this isn't as fast as a all arounder or true aero bike.   

I got my SLC3 during the Christmas sale last year for $1475 with bars shipped.  Weighs 16lbs with pedals, cages, mounts, and sensors.
Winspace SLC3 Superlight Black Small 48cm
Winspace Zero SL Bars 85 x 380
EXS Airtape 30g
K-EDGE Pro Chain Catcher
SRAM AXS Red E1 Shifters w/ Force D2 Calipers
Galfer Wave CL 160mm Rotors
GP5000 S TR 28mm Setup Tubeless
Elite Wheel Drive D50 Wheels 1300g
SRAM AXS Force D1 48/35t Chainring w/ Red E1 160mm Cranks and Power Meter
BBInfinite BB86 DUB Ceramic One-Piece Bottom Bracket
SRAM AXS Force D2 Front Derailleur
SRAM AXS Force D2 Rear Derailleur w/ BBInfinite Oversized Ceramic Jockey Wheels
Red E1 Chain (Waxed)
Red E1 10-33t Cassette
Roval Alpinist 300mm Seatpost, will supply stock post as well
Specialized SWORKS Power Mirror Saddle 143mm w/ Garmin Varia Mount
Winspace Carbon Computer Mount
Wolf Tooth Seat Collar

A lot of the parts I already had, so the total build was $2300.  In hindsight while I really love this bike, but there is this Tarmac SL 8 envy I constantly get.  For $1500-$2000+ more I could have built a similar Tarmac SL 8 Pro but probably with the regular two piece stem and aero bars.  I can say from riding a friends SL 8, the SLC3 is not a SL 8 in a do it all aero bike, but is more akin to a Canyon Ultimate or Giant TCR in a more lightweight race bike.  It's snappy, quick, stiff enough to be responsive but not stiff enough to be detrimental to compliance.  It climbs well and descends well, but it's not an Aethos in terms of weight and definitely not in terms of compliance since that bike's rear is like a noodle, but it also doesn't give you that surging aero feel due to the lack of aero profiles and weight, but that is to be expected.  Maybe Patrick Lino can comment since he has both the Tarmac SL 8 Pro and the SLC3, but there are some days I am riding and I think, wow the SLC3 is everything I need, and there are other days I ride up to the cafe and see a sea of Tarmacs and wonder, should I just have paid an extra $1500-$2000 to just get the bike that is faster, holds its value better, and the bike more people will admire?  I know these questions probably don't resonate with people on this sub since most of the bikes on here are way bellow the $3500 cost of the SL 8 Pro frameset let alone the sub $2K of the SLC3, but just things I rack in my brain with lately.

As per Winspace, I personally think their bikes are worth the price.  I think the quality is good, my personal experience with their customer service has been good, and there pricing even compared to the upper tier of Chinese bikes like Setka, Tavelo, and new brands like Evolve are good.  I think again in the context of this sub yeah, a $2000 SLC or $2400+ T1600 now seems crazy when people on here are talking about $500 frames, but like another poster stated, I personally wanted the safety that Winspace traditionally has very good tolerances and quality and two has some kind of name.  Now, again anyone who has had a China frame let a lone a Winspace knows how much you have to educate other riders about the brand since they have no clue and how if you ever sell the bike you will be taking a bath, but there is a growing circle of people that know and understand Winspace products.  I agree with Patrick that most people were introduced to Winspace via their wheels, but Winspace has drastically fallen behind in the carbon wheel race spectrum.  There are countless wheel companies that make lighter, more aero, wider, and even cheaper wheels.  ie this is why I switched to Elite Wheels after owning some 23 Hypers D45, which I did love.   

I currently use this as my secondary bike, or climbing bike since my main bike is a MY22 Scott Foil RC.  In the spectrum of things, it's nice having a dedicated aero bike and a dedicated lightweight/climbing race bike, since I can choose my bike based on the route elevation.  I really wish Winspace did aero testing.  Even if it was decently close to other major brands, I think this would be a huge plus for Winspace as a brand.  Again, for me the SLC3 really comps similar to a Canyon ultimate SL in price and a Canyon Ultimate SLX in performance, or a Giant TCR Pro, which kind of brings up the problem with this bike.  Yes, I got the bike exactly how I wanted it, with some pretty nice splurging on certain components, but again a Giant and Canyon in a mid tier config will be very close to what an upper mid tier Winspace will cost     

I think I am with Patrick, (BTW a big fan and subscriber) on how with the increase of prices for most major direct to consumer Chinese brands, big Western brands seem to make more sense for more people.  However I think there is this middle ground with companies like Winspace who have really started to build a brand, who yes have raised their prices but always have a discount code or pretty aggressive sales or package deals where a frame really will not be $1700-$2000 dollars.  I recently got a 1st gen T1550 Disc w/ Zero SL bars with UPS shipping for $1602.  I commonly hear how people got their T1550 frames during Black Friday for $1300.  I bought my original T1500 frame and bars for $1500, so to pay $102 more this time around for a slightly better product in the T1550 isn't terrible one bit.  I sold my T1500 with bars in 2022 after a season of use to someone for basically $600, thus 60% is steep, granted I recently sold my Aethos fact 10R frameset that I bought new for $3000 and got back $1250 thus basically hitting that same 60% deprecation after one year mark.  Where I think Winspace has a better chance is that they do have some US warehousing, there customer service is pretty good, and the more key this is that they have US dealers.  In my state of NY thye have 6 dealers and I know one is ACME Bikes in Katonah which is known to be a high end shop that sells everything from Moots, Time, ENVE, Parlee, Colnago, Look and I guess now Winspace.  I think the pivotal thing Winspace did was sell a crap load of wheels during the pandemic, not to mention their wheels at the time were not only a terrific value but performed insanely well.  I can't go to any semi big group ride and not see at least a couple riders with Winspace wheels here in NY.  In 2022 no one new about the T1500, but now in 2024 after I picked up my newly built T1550 I had 6 people come up to me and ask me about the bike and telling me how much they liked it and how they saw the same exact bike on Grant's GCPerformances chanel or so on.  I simply don't hear or see people talking about Seka or other high-end Chinese D2C bikes that cost $2k+ for a frame.  I am not saying they don't have a place and can't take off here in America I just think again on any big group ride or shall I say big "money" group ride sponsored by either a company or a LBS, her in NY you mostly see waves of SWORK Tarmac SL 8.  So I doubt you would see a Seka at one of those but at a recent PAS Normal Studio ride I did see one Devel and two Elves bikes.  I was very tempted to bring my T1550 but decided to go with my MY22 Scott Foil RC because I am still playing with my fit.  I think while Colnago is an amazing brand it's a heritage brand and what Tadej did for that brand riding that V4RS even though it's not the "best" bike is insane.  My buddy has a V3RS and countless people came up to him saying how much they liked his bikes and these are riders on SWORKS, Pinarellos, Factors and ect.  Point being, I think if any of these Chinese D2C brands want to really hit the US market they need to get elite athletes on them or really hit the local sponsored group ride scene where influencers are riding them