I am new here and probably like some of you, I obsessively research for hours day after day.  I have an entire groupset with wheels (disc)    I have been looking at a Bianchi XR4 replica because it looks good and has very good aerodynamics.  I have also been looking at a Trifox X18 and about every Velobuild.  There are so many choices.  I have an old Chinese open mould and will keep it.  What I do not like about it is high speed handling could be better.  I did get it to 15.5 pounds with pedals. 

So, I want opinions, especially from those who have had their bikes for a while.  The XR4 is from Yaoflying (they offer free returns) 

Thanks!

Velo build
Hongfu
Dengfu
Longteng
Trifox
Tantan (Seraph)

Hi, I think you have to look with Yoeleo R12 is pretty close to the frame you re looking for, looks like for your user name you live here in Seattle

R12 is made from miracle cycling, they charge like $700.

Hongfu and dengfu are two great companies.

I cant vouch for velobuild due to some warranties.

I've always liked the ICAN frames, and have only heard good things about them...but the price...

Apparently the cream of the crop frames coming out of China these days are the SEKA frames.  But you'd be paying about 50% of the top-tier branded frames (Look, Pinarello, S-Works, etc) as opposed to the hyper-competitive pricing offered by Deng-Fu, Velobuild, Tantan, Carbonda, etc.

Some extra intel on Velobuild. 

Of all the manufacturers involved, I believe they price closest to their minimum required margin than others. 
I have reached out to Chris re: B2B purchasing.   The price per frame was only $15 lower than list price.
Whereas, a higher-end manufacturer, such as ICAN, the price can be $100-200 cheaper than their advertised retail rate.

(If anyone is curious, I am kicking around the idea of building a small batch of 250-350W Gravel eBikes, using their new eBike GF-002 frame)

Quote from: 1Sigma on October 27, 2021, 10:02:34 AM
... 250-350W Gravel eBikes...

Are you counting bikes in watts ? 

Quote from: carbonazza on October 27, 2021, 10:39:09 AM
Are you counting bikes in watts ? 

You know, a "small batch" of 250-300 bikes....
That'd be quite the "n" in n+1

Quote from: carbonazza on October 27, 2021, 10:39:09 AM
Are you counting bikes in watts ? 

...and a "batch" of 250-350? That's a start-up. ;P

Seriously, I wonder if the difference in mark-up is because of R&D for ICAN

Quote from: FHS on October 27, 2021, 01:48:46 PM
...and a "batch" of 250-350? That's a start-up. ;P

Seriously, I wonder if the difference in mark-up is because of R&D for ICAN

Seriously though, if I were buying 250 frames, I am sure Chris would have a better price.
I was looking into 5 frames....equipped with 250 to 350W hub motors.

I reckon that if you plotted quality on the x-axis and price on the y, you'd see small increases in price for great gains in build quality, until price suddenly skyrockets as manufacturers try to squeak out marginal gains in construction, start investing in R&D, etc.