Author Topic: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame  (Read 4910 times)

stinkynathan

Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« on: February 14, 2020, 12:24:36 PM »
Hi folks. Long time reader. First time caller.

I'm looking for an FS XC bike for Wisconsin/Minnesota. The terrain here is twisty/hilly/flowy and not so gnarly. I already have an HT bike with 120mm fork, so I'm thinking I'll build an 100mm FS bike and swap forks between bikes if/when needed.  I enjoy racing, but I'm competitive. I do the local short track races and will be starting to do longer (50-100m) endurance races this year.

Currently looking for ideas on frames. So far I've been eying the following:
  • LightCarbon LCFS911 - $619 shipped. Not a big fan of the cable routing under the BB.
  • DIYCarbon DCB F110 - $775 plus shipping. Better cable routing. I've ridden a bike built around this frame(Framed Bootlegger) and really liked it. Not so keen on the frame price though. Is this frame available anywhere else?
  • Carbonda FM936 - Waiting on the price of this one. This one sounds great and everyone seems to love it, but that is a long, trailish/enduro-ish "XC bike". Little worried about maneuverability in switchbacks with this one.
  • TanTan FM036? - Haven't had a chance to look far into this one.

Any other ideas?
« Last Edit: February 14, 2020, 12:55:24 PM by stinkynathan »



emu26

Re: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2020, 05:38:38 PM »
Fork length listed for that DIYCarbon model doesn't seem right.  506mm for a 100mm 29er fork seems too short, and that is the smallest recommended fork option.

ChinerCaroliner

Re: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2020, 05:47:27 PM »
I have a 100mm bxt frame I’m going to be selling soon. Actually wanting to sale about 75% of the bike as I am building a longer travel bike and I am going to use what I can on the new bike and let go of the rest all together if possible. But I will part it out. I will def give you a deal on pricing. Probably 75-80% of what I paid to get it moving.

https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,2873.0.html
If you’re interested

sclyde2

Re: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2020, 12:06:26 AM »
you probably need to narrow down the geometry that you are after, mainly head angle and seat angle.  there's a fair range of geo across the options you have there.  also is your main priority xc/endurance racing speed, above all else?  from the description of your terrain (i dont know the area though), it sounds like 100mm travel would be enough.  you also need to work out your preferences and must-haves.  e.g. is bb92 ok?  need boost spacing? dropper post compatibility required?

i'm not sure if 67/77 angles on a short(ish) travel bike like that Carbonda FM936 would work that great for xc racing.  who knows though, it might be way of the future.  in the meantime, i find myself putting a setback seatpost on my 69/74 angle FS XC race bike, as the seat tube seems a bit steep compared to what i am used to (having said that, my recently acquired trailbike has a steeper seat-tube, but it is longer travel, and at sag everything gets a bit slacker).  maybe this upcoming race season, i'll look into moving the saddle forward a bit (maybe even save a bit of weight and use my zero offset seatpost).

you should also have a look at the scott spark rc copies.  e.g. hongfu fm258, pro-mance (not sure of the model, if it is the 9007 or 7007?), and some other resellers i cant recall the name of.  i have one of these (the earlier non-boost fm058 from hongfu) and i find it close to perfect for the racing i do on it - since i have been racing on it (since mid-2018), my results have improved significantly (some of that had to do with diet and fitness though).  i am not sure if a 120mm fork is what the frame is aimed at (it is designed for 100mm fork), but i don't think the geo would be screwed up by an extra 20mm at the front - in fact, it would put it in the same ballpark as the frame you mentioned that you quite liked - probably around 68.5/73.5.

if i could do it again, i wouldve got the boost version of my frame, and would run a 34t chainring.  i had some chainring clearance issues with a non-boost chainline, exacerbated by running an oval chainring - had issues even fitting a 32t.  the anti squat on this frame is such that it pedals unbelievably well, and i run it with compression full open, no need for rear lockout, even stomping up hills - my climbing speed last year was such that i have been relegated to the top grade this year.  check out the climbing speed on kerschbaumer at last year's world cups when he was riding one of these frames (his is branded torpado, but it is the same frame as the 258).  having said all this, i think the frame is designed around a 34t chainring - i am finding the anti squat is a bit too much with a 32t, such that the suspension is too firm under power and not as active as i am used to (i have had a lot of horst link bikes over the years).  i am really splitting hairs here though - i have no intentions to change anything on my bike.

stinkynathan

Re: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2020, 01:29:08 PM »
you probably need to narrow down the geometry that you are after, mainly head angle and seat angle.  there's a fair range of geo across the options you have there.  also is your main priority xc/endurance racing speed, above all else?  from the description of your terrain (i dont know the area though), it sounds like 100mm travel would be enough.  you also need to work out your preferences and must-haves.  e.g. is bb92 ok?  need boost spacing? dropper post compatibility required?

All fair questions to ask. XC is king here, but ultimately what I don't want to do is build a 100mm XC race rocket and hate riding it because it's too aggressive. Dropper and boost spacing are requirements. I'm less picky about BB (maybe I should be)? Though, my road bike has BB86 and I hate that it ticks with every pedal stroke.

i'm not sure if 67/77 angles on a short(ish) travel bike like that Carbonda FM936 would work that great for xc racing.  who knows though, it might be way of the future. 
The NS Bikes Synonym is based around this frame. RC is 100mm and TR is 120mm. Sounds fun from the reviews I've read/watched, but as you said this is some pretty out there geo.
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/ns-bikes-synonym-tr1-review.html
https://singletrackworld.com/2019/10/ns-synonym-first-ride-impressions/
https://bikerumor.com/2019/08/30/2020-ns-synonym-carbon-mountain-bike-switches-up-rc-cross-country-to-tr-trail/

you should also have a look at the scott spark rc copies.  e.g. hongfu fm258, pro-mance (not sure of the model, if it is the 9007 or 7007?), and some other resellers i cant recall the name of.  i have one of these (the earlier non-boost fm058 from hongfu) and i find it close to perfect for the racing i do on it - since i have been racing on it (since mid-2018), my results have improved significantly (some of that had to do with diet and fitness though).  i am not sure if a 120mm fork is what the frame is aimed at (it is designed for 100mm fork), but i don't think the geo would be screwed up by an extra 20mm at the front - in fact, it would put it in the same ballpark as the frame you mentioned that you quite liked - probably around 68.5/73.5.

if i could do it again, i wouldve got the boost version of my frame, and would run a 34t chainring.  i had some chainring clearance issues with a non-boost chainline, exacerbated by running an oval chainring - had issues even fitting a 32t.  the anti squat on this frame is such that it pedals unbelievably well, and i run it with compression full open, no need for rear lockout, even stomping up hills - my climbing speed last year was such that i have been relegated to the top grade this year.  check out the climbing speed on kerschbaumer at last year's world cups when he was riding one of these frames (his is branded torpado, but it is the same frame as the 258).  having said all this, i think the frame is designed around a 34t chainring - i am finding the anti squat is a bit too much with a 32t, such that the suspension is too firm under power and not as active as i am used to (i have had a lot of horst link bikes over the years).  i am really splitting hairs here though - i have no intentions to change anything on my bike.

Definitely considering this frame as well. Seems that Scott uses the same frame for both the 100mm and 120mm versions. Could be a good fit for around here.

spec47

Re: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2020, 06:59:22 PM »
Pro-Mance M7007-II sounds like the perfect fit. Rode mine last year (120mm fork/dropper) on very technical terrain and it was awesome. Just finished building my Carbonda FM936 and it does not sound suitable for your terrain.

A properly installed, quality (not Race Face) PF BB shouldn't be making any noise.

stinkynathan

Re: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2020, 10:51:25 PM »
Pro-Mance M7007-II sounds like the perfect fit. Rode mine last year (120mm fork/dropper) on very technical terrain and it was awesome. Just finished building my Carbonda FM936 and it does not sound suitable for your terrain.

A properly installed, quality (not Race Face) PF BB shouldn't be making any noise.

The more I read the more I agree with the 7000. I've been in contact with Steven and he's estimating a 70 day lead time assuming they're able to go back to work. Sounds like his area has been hit hard. :(

spec47

Re: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2020, 11:02:53 PM »
Not sure what size you are looking for, but selling mine if you don't want to wait. https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2715595/

Cerps

Re: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2020, 12:14:33 PM »
Not sure what size you are looking for, but selling mine if you don't want to wait. https://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/2715595/

Spec47 - I'm so far down and up and down the rabbit hole on frame sizing (particularly reach) I'm driving myself crazy.  Hopefully you can help.

What size stem and bars did you run on this bike?  You said you're 5'10" with longish arms, wouldn't recommend it to anyone taller;  and are going to a slightly larger frame.  I'm about 5'8.5" with longish arms.  I'm going to use a 120mm fork so that would theoretically take the 430mm reach on this and shorten it to 420mm if I've done geometry calculations right.  When I compare that to some of the newer reach numbers from the Blurs, Orbea Oiz, and Top Fuels it seems way short (I fall into a M/L Top Fuel that has a 461mm reach compared to this 420-430mm).  I'm in Minnesota like the OP so more XC/racy/fast than downhill and hucking big drops.  Going to a "large" frame just seems too big with the seat tube length probably being too long for adding much of a dropper post. 

If I wasn't an engineer, I'd probably have just stuck with looking at height and done the recommended size medium (I ordered M in the same geo from a different manufacturer.)  But I'm into multiple online bike geo tools right now and way over thinking it.

Pro-Mance M7007-II sounds like the perfect fit. Rode mine last year (120mm fork/dropper) on very technical terrain and it was awesome. Just finished building my Carbonda FM936 and it does not sound suitable for your terrain.

A properly installed, quality (not Race Face) PF BB shouldn't be making any noise.

The more I read the more I agree with the 7000. I've been in contact with Steven and he's estimating a 70 day lead time assuming they're able to go back to work. Sounds like his area has been hit hard. :(

Stinkynathan - what did you end up ordering?  I ordered a lcfs91x and waiting for it do be molded/clear coated/shipped.

ChinaCruz

Re: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2020, 03:28:00 PM »
FM06 with Mcleod. It claims 110mm of travel but I've never measured.

spec47

Re: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2020, 04:08:07 PM »
I ran 770mm bars and 50mm stem (originally tried 60mm). Moved down to 40mm stem with the same bars for my FM936. Dropper travel was definitely an issue and I had to run a 150mm OneUp shimmed down to 120-125mm.

Jan505

Re: Best options for 100-120mm XC frame
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2020, 12:55:46 AM »
Pro mance m7007ii is a great option also