Author Topic: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame  (Read 68737 times)

ghiabici

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #285 on: November 21, 2023, 06:48:13 AM »
It's a bit of a multi-level problem. Firstly, the design of the bearing retainer clip absolutely matters on the IS52/40 headsets. If you don't have a clip with a deep seat, a rough hit will cause the seat to rise out the groove and come loose. Remember, you've only got at best 270 degrees of engagement with the seat on a narrow 2-5mm 45 degree chamfer.

If the clip is a poor design, you can even split them as many road ones are thin aluminium, with  cut outs to allow them to compress/spring into the bearing seat - these will act as stress raisers and be a point through which it cracks.

Finally (and this is generally not an issue), the headset cap may be composite or resin which could fracture in a crash, especially if you have a large force through the steerer tube. This is why most MTB headsets are metal, but again it is not always the case (depends on the intended use).

Internal routing is fine, you just need a suitable headset. Which is unfortunately pretty hard for this bike. But First C552 is one possible option. I'm still waiting on Token to launch their M-Box in IS52/40 though as it's a much better design in my opinion.


This is not good thinking. There is nothing about the internal headset routing that would cause the front end to be weaker. The fork is held in place with the exact same amount of material, the differences are in the c-clip for internal cable pass through and the top cap, neither of which is structural. The internal routing is offered as an option on the 909, 1001, and 1002 frames with no issues reported about front end failures.

edit: removed 1003 from list
« Last Edit: November 21, 2023, 06:51:05 AM by ghiabici »

impmonkey

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #286 on: November 21, 2023, 07:47:02 AM »
What vinyl did you use and where did you source is.    I am gathering parts for my FRAMED Frame.   
What 205 X 60 shock are you going to use?   
What fork?  150 or 160 travel?     I don't mind the top logo on the frame. It looks OK to me.   

I plan on using a Wheeltop EDS derailleur.  I might have already posted that it doesn't fit!!  The UHD is too short relative to the mass and width of rear triangle, and the amount of material around the EDS mounting boss.   I have already cut the frame to make the derailleur fit, and will back fill the opening with a carbon fiber sheet/epoxy resin.

The derailleur issue is wild. I only have a shimano group atm and as noted its tight but fits.
I had a friend with a vinyl cutter locally make it for me.

I actually got the logo/vector from the guy that designed it. Found it on his portfolio website.
Seeing as they are defunct I imagine he wont mind me sharing.

Tijoe

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #287 on: November 21, 2023, 09:09:10 AM »
Thanks.  I was 1/2 thinking about covering up the FRAMED logo with a continuous piece of vinyl, one piece on each side,  rather than individual letter cutouts.  Or use a "Vinyl wrap" type of material.

casual_build

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #288 on: November 21, 2023, 10:39:06 AM »
...
Mounted the DPX2, fresh take off of a Spec. Enduro.
...

Nice I also used an DPX2 Enduro take off. Kinda wish I had the Float X instead.

...   
What 205 X 60 shock are you going to use?   
What fork?  150 or 160 travel?
...
For front end, the frame is not actually spec'd for 150, it is for 160-sh. IIRC, A 160mm lyric is shorter than the recommend fork length and a 160mm Zeb is a little over the specified fork length. I would do a 160-170mm Zeb.
For rear end,  air shocks will work best according the insanityOfGravity linkage check post. If I could pick, I would get the Float X with a standard tune and add a bigger spacer in it.


Tijoe

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #290 on: November 21, 2023, 12:53:53 PM »
For front end, the frame is not actually spec'd for 150, it is for 160-sh. IIRC, A 160mm lyric is shorter than the recommend fork length and a 160mm Zeb is a little over the specified fork length. I would do a 160-170mm Zeb.
Can you clarify what generation RS forks you are referring to?   Older Lyriks that had a travel range of 150 to 170 or the latest 2023/2024 Lyrik that has a travel range of 140 to 160mm.
Note too that the previous generation has a 42mm offset versus the latest generation is 44mm   (Yes, I know there is a 51mm version offset too.)

The Zeb is a heavier duty fork having 36mm tubes versus Lyrik's 35mm.  Plus a weight increase of over 200 grams for the Zeb.   Reviews and posted comments are all over the place regarding which fork performs better.   Most comment that it depends on the rider's weight and the types of terrain you ride on.   

casual_build

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #291 on: November 21, 2023, 09:20:48 PM »
Can you clarify what generation RS forks you are referring to?   Older Lyriks that had a travel range of 150 to 170 or the latest 2023/2024 Lyrik that has a travel range of 140 to 160mm.
Note too that the previous generation has a 42mm offset versus the latest generation is 44mm   (Yes, I know there is a 51mm version offset too.)

The Zeb is a heavier duty fork having 36mm tubes versus Lyrik's 35mm.  Plus a weight increase of over 200 grams for the Zeb.   Reviews and posted comments are all over the place regarding which fork performs better.   Most comment that it depends on the rider's weight and the types of terrain you ride on.   

I just double checked, the difference between this generation and the last generation is not much and the 64.5 degree head angle is with a 572 fork.

- The new 160mm Lyrik is about 571
- My 170mm Lyrik is 581
- The new 160mm Zeb 576


I would recommend overforking, especially if the bike is on the bigger side for you. If you can get a 170mm Lyrik, I love mine and I only wish for a Zeb when doing a lot of downhill.

 My 170mm Lyrik is 581 long puts my large frame at 64.1 degree head angle and it climbs well. Definitely could be more slack before I lose pedal efficiency.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2023, 11:45:37 PM by casual_build »

Tijoe

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #292 on: November 21, 2023, 09:59:34 PM »
2023 on Lyric 160 mm travel is listed as 571mm,  One mm less than the 572 listed on the frame geometries.

2023 Zeb 160mm is listed as 576mm (confirming your post), 170 Zeb is 596mm.

I try to consider what the delta of a longer or shorter fork does to the seat tube angle besides the change in HT angle.  I think that a 170 fork would put my seat farther back and I wouldn't have as much weight forward as I would like for the types of climbing I do.   

Large frame isn't too large for me.  Medium is definitely too small. 


casual_build

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #293 on: November 22, 2023, 12:00:10 AM »
2023 on Lyric 160 mm travel is listed as 571mm,  One mm less than the 572 listed on the frame geometries.

2023 Zeb 160mm is listed as 576mm (confirming your post), 170 Zeb is 596mm.

I try to consider what the delta of a longer or shorter fork does to the seat tube angle besides the change in HT angle.  I think that a 170 fork would put my seat farther back and I wouldn't have as much weight forward as I would like for the types of climbing I do.   

Large frame isn't too large for me.  Medium is definitely too small. 

My bad it's ~571, editted my last post.
In your situation I agree the 170 Zeb might affect steep climbing.
The 160mm lyrik is a great fork, I wish 170 was still an option.
If you are lightweight and do a lot climbing, maybe go with lyrik.

impmonkey

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #294 on: November 25, 2023, 06:28:12 PM »
I am light weight (145 lbs) and went with the 160 lyric. Here next Friday.

Tijoe

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #295 on: December 19, 2023, 09:14:22 PM »
My framed FS frame version of the Flybike is almost together.  Today's weight is 29.62 lbs   I still have to figure out the settings for handlebars and finish setting up the front end.   Attaching a picture that is a few days old.

I have encountered a problem.   It appears to me that the SRAM UDH sits farther back by about 1/2"(10-15mm) than a regular derailleur hanger.   I am trying us use a Wheel Top EDS on this bike to match 3 other bikes I have the EDS installed on.    I believe that because of the hanger position, I can't get the derailleur to shift into the highers cog. (10 tooth) 
If I trim the derailleur so it shifts into the 10 cog, then I can't shift into the 51 cog.  I believe it is the UHDs fault because of its position behind and below the axle.  (See attached images one that shows the FRAMED hanger and on on my carbon hardtail.)

For grins, I swapped out the derailleur from a very smooth shifting EDS onto this frame and I encountered the same problem, so I am positive it is the UHD's position that is causing the problem.  (Anyone else have this type of problem?)

impmonkey

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #296 on: December 20, 2023, 07:59:00 PM »
I should have my derailleur (old gx axs) ready to mount shortly after Christmas. Waiting on wheels. Interested to see if it's the same.

endo.alley

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #297 on: December 28, 2023, 01:07:55 PM »
My bad it's ~571, editted my last post.
In your situation I agree the 170 Zeb might affect steep climbing.
The 160mm lyrik is a great fork, I wish 170 was still an option.
If you are lightweight and do a lot climbing, maybe go with lyrik.
I have a Lyric Ultimate 170mm. The bike climbs and handles great. Seat angle difference between 60mm and 170mm can be made up by sliding seat 1/4" forward. But probably not necessary.

Tijoe

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #298 on: December 28, 2023, 01:59:45 PM »
This is how my FRAMED Piedmont/Flybike build ended up.   (If need to be ridden now and tuned.) - But it is winter....

 

FullCarbonAlchemist

Re: FM1002 / FM1166 - 150mm frame
« Reply #299 on: December 29, 2023, 08:52:15 PM »
This is how my FRAMED Piedmont/Flybike build ended up.   (If need to be ridden now and tuned.) - But it is winter....

Looking good!