Velobuild VB-R-218

[Queen of Skulls]

So I finished my build last week and I’ve been putting the frame thru its paces.  I’ve had few reservations at the start but it’s turning out to be an impressive machine.  I’ve had zero issues with the BB fitment and the only thing that needed real attention was making the rear brake housing exit bigger, 3D printing a more robust front deraillure cable exit and sanding/dremeling down the BB paint overspray and protruding rivet.

Major parts include: Sensah 12spd, look keo pedals, elite wheels and aliEx EEbrake replicas.   Without the added crap and accessories it came in exactly 7kg (including bottle cages).


One advice I can give to anyone looking to build the frame is keep small files and a dremel handy!

Files I get. but a dremel? I mean I like slow and exact.

Also For storage I just picked up a 40 buck mechanics stand from amazon. I was skeptical but its a solid stand. I mean Its no park shop stand. but it was $40. So I am very happy.

[Sebastian]

So I finished my build last week and I’ve been putting the frame thru its paces.  I’ve had few reservations at the start but it’s turning out to be an impressive machine.  I’ve had zero issues with the BB fitment and the only thing that needed real attention was making the rear brake housing exit bigger, 3D printing a more robust front deraillure cable exit and sanding/dremeling down the BB paint overspray and protruding rivet.

Nice!
I agree. I did have the exact same problem with the rear brake exit hole on the top tube. Used a drill and a file.
About the rivet in the BB. My 25mm crank spindle on my Campag crank just about fits without rubbing. So I reckon anyone with a BB30 spindle will have to somehow file it down.

How do you like these fake EEbrakes? I am kind of tempted to try them as they'd save a big chunk of weight over my Record brakes. Then again, not sure I'm willing to take a leap of faith when it comes to braking.

Could you share a picture of the 3D printed cable exit port? I also found the one that is included less than ideal. Would you be able to share the file with me so I can have it printed?

Also like the paintjob!

[southpaw_cycling]

Files I get. but a dremel? I mean I like slow and exact.

Also For storage I just picked up a 40 buck mechanics stand from amazon. I was skeptical but its a solid stand. I mean Its no park shop stand. but it was $40. So I am very happy.

I used the dremel to grind away the protruding rivet in the BB area and clean up the overspray in the threads with a wire brush attachment.  I started the rivet with a file but it took forever and I saw no risk going at it with a power tool. Besides, you can be quite precise with a rotary tool if you can manage it, and i didnt want to spend filing away rest of my life.

And agree on the stand, working on a bike is nigh impossible without having to suspend the bike in the air at certain points in the build.

Nice!
I agree. I did have the exact same problem with the rear brake exit hole on the top tube. Used a drill and a file.
About the rivet in the BB. My 25mm crank spindle on my Campag crank just about fits without rubbing. So I reckon anyone with a BB30 spindle will have to somehow file it down.

How do you like these fake EEbrakes? I am kind of tempted to try them as they'd save a big chunk of weight over my Record brakes. Then again, not sure I'm willing to take a leap of faith when it comes to braking.

Could you share a picture of the 3D printed cable exit port? I also found the one that is included less than ideal. Would you be able to share the file with me so I can have it printed?

Also like the paintjob!

The EEbrakes I have mixed feelings about - it was a huge pain in the ass to get the rear brake dialed in.  The angle which the housing exits the frame isn’t ideal and I ended up having to splice in the more flexible part of the housing meant for inserting into the hood that came with the jagwire compressionless kit to allow the system to move and function correctly.  The lever arm of the brakes have a large travel distance (2:1 of the pad travel from what I roughly measured) and It can create a severe kink in the line that causes friction / compliance issues.   I have no idea what the long term implication of this set up is but hey it works.

In terms of performance however, paired with Swisstop pads, it’s very authoritative and I like it a lot so far now that it’s set up correctly.  I however do live in a city with no notable hills or descents and I haven’t done much in the way of torture testing and thats what Im planning to do next and maybe design and 3D print a brake track cooling duct for fun.

Here is the cable exit STL - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5552775 - print at 100% infill… you might need to drill the exit hole or take a hot needle and melt a bigger hole to get your cable thru.  Lemme know how it works out!  I made this cause the original that came with the frame shattered pretty much immediately soon as i started manipulating it.

And thanks about the paintjob - i requested it to be painted like the Lotus Type 33 

[Sebastian]

The EEbrakes I have mixed feelings about

Yes, that’s what I’ve heard about these. Also, i can see from the pics how the cable angle might cause problems, especially on the rear.
Just like you, I’m living in a predominantly flat area. So weight saving is not much of a benefit. Also, Campy brakes and levers work exceptionally well together. Super powerful. Setting them up is a breeze. Cut the cable to length, set them up and off you go.

And I just love the look of skeletons.

Thanks so much for the STL file. I’ll give it a try. Mine is still intact. But also I wasn’t happy with the super sharp metal piece that is used to screw the cable port into. It’s biting into the inside of the seat tube. So I bodged it with multiple washers to distribute the pressure against a larger surface area. But I’m still not happy with that solution.

[Queen of Skulls]

And I just love the look of skeletons.

Me too.... me too...

I used the dremel to grind away the protruding rivet in the BB area and clean up the overspray in the threads with a wire brush attachment.  I started the rivet with a file but it took forever and I saw no risk going at it with a power tool. Besides, you can be quite precise with a rotary tool if you can manage it, and i didnt want to spend filing away rest of my life.

And agree on the stand, working on a bike is nigh impossible without having to suspend the bike in the air at certain points in the build.



Here is the cable exit STL - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5552775 - print at 100% infill… you might need to drill the exit hole or take a hot needle and melt a bigger hole to get your cable thru.  Lemme know how it works out!  I made this cause the original that came with the frame shattered pretty much immediately soon as i started manipulating it.

And thanks about the paintjob - i requested it to be painted like the Lotus Type 33 

Ok the rivet for the bb makes sense. ALso cant you order the thru hole from aliex? But I would use PETG  or abs even for a temp job.  As PLA will bio degrate. and more easily melt in the sun.

[southpaw_cycling]

Yes, that’s what I’ve heard about these. Also, i can see from the pics how the cable angle might cause problems, especially on the rear.
Just like you, I’m living in a predominantly flat area. So weight saving is not much of a benefit. Also, Campy brakes and levers work exceptionally well together. Super powerful. Setting them up is a breeze. Cut the cable to length, set them up and off you go.

And I just love the look of skeletons.

Thanks so much for the STL file. I’ll give it a try. Mine is still intact. But also I wasn’t happy with the super sharp metal piece that is used to screw the cable port into. It’s biting into the inside of the seat tube. So I bodged it with multiple washers to distribute the pressure against a larger surface area. But I’m still not happy with that solution.

To be clear - only the setup woes gave me mixed feelings.  Its pretty solid now and I'll report back after I've put some significant miles.  The build quality is very good for how much I've paid... However I'd be upset if I paid what Cane Creek is asking for full retail.  Seems like they've significantly cut costs saved weight with each generation ever since they bought the rights to the design.  

That being said, I'll probably swap to the unit you are using as soon as these things start malfunctioning... not taking chances with the brakes!

Also, to make the STL work, you still need the sharp metal piece...  maybe ill design something to redistribute that pressure you are speaking of as a second piece to this....

Me too.... me too...


Ok the rivet for the bb makes sense. ALso cant you order the thru hole from aliex? But I would use PETG  or abs even for a temp job.  As PLA will bio degrate. and more easily melt in the sun.

It was a choice between easily designing and printing something overnight for free and getting to ride the very next morning and ordering on AliEx and paying for shipping and waiting like a month.

Also PLA gets a bad rep for the properties you've mentioned but in order to degrade and take UV damage to failure it would take a quite a long time and neglect.  Im not worried about the temperature either as it's also mostly out of direct sunlight/UV, in a mostly occluded area of the bike, and if the weather got anywhere close to the melting point of PLA... lets just say we'd have a bigger environmental disaster to worry about. Besides, if I was really worried about the integrity of the part in question I can swap it out as part of every maintenance cycle like a brake pad as it only takes 5 minutes.  Also the most important consideration when choosing materials for me is I was too lazy to swap the filaments 
I've also purposely overbuilt the parts and printing it at 100% infill should be able to withstand repeated abuse.  I'll also report back on how the part holds up over time as its purely assumptions at this point without actual real world use.

[Queen of Skulls]

To be clear - only the setup woes gave me mixed feelings.  Its pretty solid now and I'll report back after I've put some significant miles.  The build quality is very good for how much I've paid... However I'd be upset if I paid what Cane Creek is asking for full retail.  Seems like they've significantly cut costs saved weight with each generation ever since they bought the rights to the design.  

That being said, I'll probably swap to the unit you are using as soon as these things start malfunctioning... not taking chances with the brakes!

Also, to make the STL work, you still need the sharp metal piece...  maybe ill design something to redistribute that pressure you are speaking of as a second piece to this....


It was a choice between easily designing and printing something overnight for free and getting to ride the very next morning and ordering on AliEx and paying for shipping and waiting like a month.

Also PLA gets a bad rep for the properties you've mentioned but in order to degrade and take UV damage to failure it would take a quite a long time and neglect.  Im not worried about the temperature either as it's also mostly out of direct sunlight/UV, in a mostly occluded area of the bike, and if the weather got anywhere close to the melting point of PLA... lets just say we'd have a bigger environmental disaster to worry about. Besides, if I was really worried about the integrity of the part in question I can swap it out as part of every maintenance cycle like a brake pad as it only takes 5 minutes.  Also the most important consideration when choosing materials for me is I was too lazy to swap the filaments 
I've also purposely overbuilt the parts and printing it at 100% infill should be able to withstand repeated abuse.  I'll also report back on how the part holds up over time as its purely assumptions at this point without actual real world use.

If you leave your bike in the car, its going to melt the pla. Trust me I tries a number of prints in the car. I now do abs or petg for higher temp. and yes uv damage. but it will brake down on its own too.

[southpaw_cycling]

If you leave your bike in the car, its going to melt the pla. Trust me I tries a number of prints in the car. I now do abs or petg for higher temp. and yes uv damage. but it will brake down on its own too.

Again, not a big deal to me as I plan to replace/check on it regularly and I rarely leave my things in state of neglect like leaving my bike in a car-oven.  Working with any material is all about making concessions and understanding what you can and cant do with it.  PLA is good enough - but if it fails numerous times even with different configuration (like beefing it up and adding more mass) to its shape before i get to do major maintenance on my bike, I will be changing the material. But as of right now I have only one printer and its not set up for printing anything else other then PLA, so thats the way its going to be for now.  The worst that can happen if it breaks is that the front derailleur loses tension and I get stuck with a 1X bike till I get home, so its not a catastrophic life or death failure.
Besides, I've made accessories for my car with PLA as well and they held up well for couple of years including a toll-pass holder which pretty much sits right on the windshield in direct sunlight.  Its definitely not the same material it started its life as (its more brittle and hard now) but still serves its purpose well.

To the issue of temperature,  last time i checked, leaving anything from electronics/bike/your favorite hoodie in your toasty hot car tends to shorten their lifespan considerably. Carbon fiber resin, lubricants, adhesives, bartape, rubbers, gaskets all tend to do poorly outside of their temp range.  Just ask my old xbox 360.... it knows. 

I understand where you are coming from though and thanks for the concern!

[Queen of Skulls]

Besides, I've made accessories for my car with PLA as well and they held up well for couple of years including a toll-pass holder which pretty much sits right on the windshield in direct sunlight.  Its definitely not the same material it started its life as (its more brittle and hard now) but still serves its purpose well.

To the issue of temperature,  last time i checked, leaving anything from electronics/bike/your favorite hoodie in your toasty hot car tends to shorten their lifespan considerably. Carbon fiber resin, lubricants, adhesives, bartape, rubbers, gaskets all tend to do poorly outside of their temp range.  Just ask my old xbox 360.... it knows. 

I understand where you are coming from though and thanks for the concern!

Well if you done it before. Maybe environment plays a factor. I live in socal. and lets just say car- oven is about right. I can probably bake cookies or on a hotter day  maybe a nice steak.

[dr Smoooth]

i have wall hangers and i keep my families bikes on that.

I built a custom bike shelf in my "home office / bike cave".

I can't wait for my frame and wheels to arrive......the last items needed before the build process.

[Queen of Skulls]

I built a custom bike shelf in my "home office / bike cave".

I can't wait for my frame and wheels to arrive......the last items needed before the build process.

Nana nana nana nana.... BIKEMAN!!!!

[southpaw_cycling]

Yes, that’s what I’ve heard about these. Also, i can see from the pics how the cable angle might cause problems, especially on the rear.
Just like you, I’m living in a predominantly flat area. So weight saving is not much of a benefit. Also, Campy brakes and levers work exceptionally well together. Super powerful. Setting them up is a breeze. Cut the cable to length, set them up and off you go.

And I just love the look of skeletons.

Thanks so much for the STL file. I’ll give it a try. Mine is still intact. But also I wasn’t happy with the super sharp metal piece that is used to screw the cable port into. It’s biting into the inside of the seat tube. So I bodged it with multiple washers to distribute the pressure against a larger surface area. But I’m still not happy with that solution.

Well yeah that didnt take long.  Here is the result from the replica eebrake torture test… A little bit of force off axis and pop goes the retaining c clip flying to my face. Not worth the risk and the time that goes into trying to get these to work!

… on goes the Ultegras…

[Sebastian]

Well yeah that didnt take long.  Here is the result from the replica eebrake torture test… A little bit of force off axis and pop goes the retaining c clip flying to my face. Not worth the risk and the time that goes into trying to get these to work!

… on goes the Ultegras…

Wow! That happened during a ride? You’re OK, I hope?

I just did a big ride today with some fast descents. It’s good to have faith in your brakes on those.

To reflect what GC Performance said in his review. I feel this frame is on the harsher end but I don’t really find it uncomfortable. It’s noticeably stiffer in the BB area than my previous Helium frame. If I did have to lament a lack of stiffness then it would be in headtube area. It doesn’t really bother me, but it’s a bit more flexy there.

But this bike put a big grin on my face today. Especially whilst descending. I can’t overstate how much I love how this thing handles corners. It feels just so nimble. But, the low BB takes some getting used to. I got 175mm cranks and I clipped my left pedal on the ground once because I started pedalling out of a corner to early. That’s the downside. But it’s worth it because it’s super fun!

[southpaw_cycling]

Wow! That happened during a ride? You’re OK, I hope?

Not dead yet,  it fell apart while I was checking on it at home... I was testing the bike out on a nearby bridge in town (highest point near me about 100m in elevation)  I had to bail after topping out at 30 mph after experiencing some sketchiness.  Lets just say the arm was hanging on by dear life by just a c clip clearly not intended for the job.  It's thin as you can get with somekind of low grade steel and this is where im guessing they've cut corners.  I've noticed this with the washers and bolts as well.  The lip that was supposed to retain the clip is also probably not recessed enough as it came apart so easily. 
Its a bummer,  for sure but Im just glad it didnt happen at speed.

But this bike put a big grin on my face today. Especially whilst descending. I can’t overstate how much I love how this thing handles corners. It feels just so nimble. But, the low BB takes some getting used to. I got 175mm cranks and I clipped my left pedal on the ground once because I started pedalling out of a corner to early. That’s the downside. But it’s worth it because it’s super fun!

Yeah the bike is very nimble and and fun.  Its a huge change from my other heavier bikes (gravel and commuter) and I'm pretty happy with the initial impressions.

[BiciVini]

Hi guys, what‘s the tire clearance for 218 ?
VBR 168 seems appropriate for allroad (at least 32, vs 177 that can‘t even take 30 plus properly)
I‘m super keen to also order it, but use for road and allroad/light gravel is eminent, living in the Swiss mountains