Velobuild VB-R-218

[madmax]

Well, the local bike shop has now clobbered my front derailleur and stripped out the helicoil and held the bike for more than 12 days now

I don’t know what size coil I need now and if I have to buy yet another fd, because the shop will not pay for one.

I didn’t know campy used a helicoil in the fd for a braze on and at this point I just want to get my bike back
didn’t expect an actual bike shop mechanic to mess up an installation.

Anyone using a campy group can tell me what part I need and it’s probably metric

[Sebastian]

Well, the local bike shop has now clobbered my front derailleur and stripped out the helicoil and held the bike for more than 12 days now

I don’t know what size coil I need now and if I have to buy yet another fd, because the shop will not pay for one.

I didn’t know campy used a helicoil in the fd for a braze on and at this point I just want to get my bike back
didn’t expect an actual bike shop mechanic to mess up an installation.

Anyone using a campy group can tell me what part I need and it’s probably metric

I wasn't familiar with the term Helicoil.
You mean the little thread insert that the clamping bolt for the FD cable screws into, right?
I attached a photo of a Record 12sp FD.

I got various generations of Campagnolo stuff in use. I never noticed it, but they all have it. It's a steel insert to make the thread interface more durable, I guess.
I tried to remove it from an old Chorus 11sp FD that I have lying around. But it seems to be pressed in.

Also, there seems to be no spare part no. for this bit (see the attached pic).
So I think it's safe to say that this insert is not intended to be removed/replaced. The guy has probably permanently ruined your brand new FD.

If you mean the threaded hole that is used to attach the FD to the frame's FD mount - there's no helicoil in there. Those threads are cut directly into the aluminium of the FD. If he stripped those, then the FD is trashed as well, I guess.

The limit screws are also threaded directly into the FD. They use little springs which help keeping them in position once they're set up correctly. Those are sold as a complete set - two screws plus the springs.

Hope this helps. Your build is turning into a proper odyssee. Hope you're going to finish the bike soon.

[madmax]

This one (see pix)

Apparently, all campy FD's have them & somehow this guy with 40 years of experience as he repeatedly kept telling me managed to mess this up & then wanted to sell me a Chorus FD for $103
After a few YouTube's etc, it is possible to press in a new coil in there & I really hope I will get my bike back today, regardless of whether they have fixed it or not

I might wind up having to either fix this or buy a new one & I'm thinking of filing a legal dispute, because at the very least they should have simply apologized & offered to replace it instead of blaming it on "the chinese frame" etc etc

I called another shop that is a pro campy center & the tech there said,  "you have to be really incompetent to manage to destroy that coil"  and "please just bring the bike in so we can make it right"

.....and I haven't even ridden the bike yet.

[kongo]

can you re-tap the threads, find a coil my be be a problem

[carbonazza]

Lefty forks had(still have?) an helicoil where you thread the wheel.
To protect the alloy part, the helicoil will die first if you cross thread.
Once I stripped one, and it was a little nightmare to replace.

On Weight Weenies you can look for graeme_f_k he's  generally responsive about Campagnolo questions.

[Liter]

He’s not talking about thru axle alignment but rather about the brake mounts for the disc callipers. That’s a common issue on many frames.

Common on brand frames? I had this issue with a Velobuild 177, even the second fork Chris sent had the issue, my mechanic was good enough to resolve the issue making a new insert with helicoil.

[madmax]

Update

Front derailleur was saved by a more competent mechanic and retapped
Now, it needs a M7 x 1.0 helicoil which is on order and will arrive next Tuesday

Extra spacers and top cap and garmin mount finally showed up

Black Swiss Stop brake pads went back as they were the wrong ones and yellow campy compatible
ones should show up tomorrow

Merry Christmas everyone

[Spidermonkey]

Yep,    it seems the main issues are

1. Disc brake frame have through axles alignment issues & need facing

2. Paint in the BB threads

3. Bolt in BB height is too high


My frame above is the rim brake version & in my order/email with Chris

1.  I asked for matte black/unfinished frame & to make sure there was no paint
    I did clean out the BB/BSA threads with isopropyl & there was barely any paint in there (yes they do listen in their emails)

2. Front direct mount brake gave me issues & I cleaned that out & I had to coat the threads with ASC-1 anti-seize when mounting the campy brakes
    I have no idea what the heck they put in those holes, but that was a hard install

3. Started to file down the internal bolt & then Sebastian mentioned the Campy spindle is 25mm & will have enough clearence & sure enough that was the case & I did not bother sanding that down


My bike is in the local shop waiting to get the steerer cut & the shifting/indexing setup & then I'll ride & test it out

I did have to go to the Pinarello shop & get spacers so now I have the base spacers from Velo stacked up & then 3 spacers with impeccable finish from Pinarello & it looks a bit comical, but it all fits together...

I just got this same frame yesterday! I got the BB installed after cleaning out the threads. This took less than 1 hour.
I went to install the Ultegra 8010 direct mount rim brakes that I chose and they won't go in. Are the Campagnolo and Shimano bolt patterns the same? Or will the Shimano brakes not work with this frame?

[Sebastian]

I just got this same frame yesterday! I got the BB installed after cleaning out the threads. This took less than 1 hour.
I went to install the Ultegra 8010 direct mount rim brakes that I chose and they won't go in. Are the Campagnolo and Shimano bolt patterns the same? Or will the Shimano brakes not work with this frame?

There’s no difference. Bolt pattern and threads are identical. Please provide a bit more info. What exactly is the problem. Do the bolts line up with the holes in the frame? Do the bolts not catch the threads? Have you tried to screw something else in to see if the threads actually work? Most brakes come with thread lock applied to the mounting bolts. That might make it harder to screw them in initially.

[Spidermonkey]

There’s no difference. Bolt pattern and threads are identical. Please provide a bit more info. What exactly is the problem. Do the bolts line up with the holes in the frame? Do the bolts not catch the threads? Have you tried to screw something else in to see if the threads actually work? Most brakes come with thread lock applied to the mounting bolts. That might make it harder to screw them in initially.

Only bolts I had were the ones in the brakes. They wouldn't thread together at all. Barely start, tons of running torque. Felt like it was cross threading. I spent the past few hours troubleshooting and I found the solution.
So they are both M6-1 threads. I found this out with calipers, thread standard sheets online, and some pitch gauges. The Shimano Ultegra bolts had included a thread locker. The female threads in the frame ended up having a tiny amount of resin in them. These two things combined made it almost impossible for them to thread together. I carefully (by hand for 80% of the time) ran an M6-1 thread tap through the frame threads to clean them up. Once I had done this, they actually went together.

Tomorrow I drill out the hole for the rear brake cable and file down the interference with the crank spindle. Wish me luck!

[madmax]

Only bolts I had were the ones in the brakes. They wouldn't thread together at all. Barely start, tons of running torque. Felt like it was cross threading. I spent the past few hours troubleshooting and I found the solution.
So they are both M6-1 threads. I found this out with calipers, thread standard sheets online, and some pitch gauges. The Shimano Ultegra bolts had included a thread locker. The female threads in the frame ended up having a tiny amount of resin in them. These two things combined made it almost impossible for them to thread together. I carefully (by hand for 80% of the time) ran an M6-1 thread tap through the frame threads to clean them up. Once I had done this, they actually went together.

Tomorrow I drill out the hole for the rear brake cable and file down the interference with the crank spindle. Wish me luck!

See my earlier post on the drilling with the carbide bit & finish with the sanding bit

My Chinese dremel was a pain to use & the company seems to be defunct so I used the bits on my Milwaukee rotary M12 cordless which was easier to use


For direct mount brakes I had a miserable time mounting the front one & removed the thread locker from the bolts (campy)  & cleaned out the inside of the mount point with isopropyl alcohol & a soft rag & used a touch of asc-1 (anti sieze) on the bolt thread to get it started & carefully tightened it

Yes, I know, you should not use grease ppl-1 or asc-1 on this, but I was afraid of damaging the fork etc & I can always use a medium strength blue loctite later if it loosens out

[Spidermonkey]

See my earlier post on the drilling with the carbide bit & finish with the sanding bit

My Chinese dremel was a pain to use & the company seems to be defunct so I used the bits on my Milwaukee rotary M12 cordless which was easier to use


For direct mount brakes I had a miserable time mounting the front one & removed the thread locker from the bolts (campy)  & cleaned out the inside of the mount point with isopropyl alcohol & a soft rag & used a touch of asc-1 (anti sieze) on the bolt thread to get it started & carefully tightened it

Yes, I know, you should not use grease ppl-1 or asc-1 on this, but I was afraid of damaging the fork etc & I can always use a medium strength blue loctite later if it loosens out

I saw your notes about that specific hole, and sebastian's responses. I used a hand drill and stepped it up like you guys talked about. Then cleaned up the edge of the hole with a dremel.
Did you have any issues threading the bolts into the handlebars where they clamp onto the fork tube? Those are giving me issues too. Thinking I'll have to clean out those tapped holes too.

[madmax]

I saw your notes about that specific hole, and sebastian's responses. I used a hand drill and stepped it up like you guys talked about. Then cleaned up the edge of the hole with a dremel.
Did you have any issues threading the bolts into the handlebars where they clamp onto the fork tube? Those are giving me issues too. Thinking I'll have to clean out those tapped holes too.

" threading the bolts into the handlebars "  ?

Paste a pix, because I don't understand what you are referring to

My bike it still in the shop, tech is out due to illness so I wont get it back until later next week, which is fine as I'd not have someone sick being forced to work on new years eve on something that can wait.

[Sebastian]

Did you have any issues threading the bolts into the handlebars where they clamp onto the fork tube? Those are giving me issues too. Thinking I'll have to clean out those tapped holes too.

You mean the threads in the one piece Handlebar for the grub screws, right? I had no issues with these. But there was one other forum member posting here who stripped the threads there after using Loctite. I think it’s safe to say that everything that is threaded on this frame should be met with a lot of caution. The material is not particularly durable and the threads are not particularly clean.

[kongo]

You mean the threads in the one piece Handlebar for the grub screws, right? I had no issues with these. But there was one other forum member posting here who stripped the threads there after using Loctite. I think it’s safe to say that everything that is threaded on this frame should be met with a lot of caution. The material is not particularly durable and the threads are not particularly clean.

i had the same issues on my first set of bars that came with the frame( it was un painted) the grub screw were not drilled correctly. order another one off Ali. The grub screws holes are in better condition. I did use different grub screws then what came with bars. the OEM once are alum i went with a stainless steal.