Velobuild VB-R-218

[JonMS]

Your image is not very helpful as it's a star nut inside an aluminium steerer. Carbon steerers use expansion plugs.
I don't really know how big the gap should be. Dogma manual says to cut the steerer 5 mm below the top of the stem, which I did and it looks like in the image.

VB top cap is shit. Not only is it made of fragile aluminium that breaks easily, it's also very thick - double the size of a carbon cap I got with additional spacers I bought. No wonder you had to sand it down if you didn't want to cut the steerer so low that the top grub screw would push into air instead of into the steerer.

lol it was meant to simply show a gap between the top of the stem (handlebars in the 218 case) and the steerer tube.

Yep I would sand down the crap top cap or run the carbon one. Did you try assembling per my steps?

[Sebastian]

You probably have spare split spacers lying around, right? Use one the to stack your stem a tad higher and tighten everything down and see if the play is gone. If yes, then your fork steerer still is a tad too long. If not, then something else is going on.

[Ar26]

I leave 4mm of distance between the top of the expander and the top cap for the compression of the headset. Watch this video YT to adjust your headset :  "BBInfinite TECH TIP: Adjust a Headset Like a Boss"

[blackpyros]

lol it was meant to simply show a gap between the top of the stem (handlebars in the 218 case) and the steerer tube.
Yep I would sand down the crap top cap or run the carbon one. Did you try assembling per my steps?

I will try the advice of increasing the gap by one 5mm spacer and see how it goes. Also I can't really follow your steps exactly as I would need to disconnect the front hydraulic hose to remove the fork from the headtube but I guess it's fine installing and fully tightening the plug after fork and spacers are already installed.

But I will definitely try to tighten the top cap before clamping the stem although I guess it doesn't really matter. I will also try to apply some carbon paste on the plug to make sure that thing doesn't move up inside of the steerer when tightening the top cap.

EDIT: OK I tried to add the spacer and it indeed helped. No more headset play. Allright, time to shorten the steerer. Wanted to shorten it anyway to remove all the spacers. I was too much conservative with them. I noticed with 3,5 cm spacers my handlebar is almost 5 cm higher than my current bike. Without them it will also look much better. Thanks everyone for help, especially those that told me my steerer might be too long.

[Sebastian]

But I will definitely try to tighten the top cap before clamping the stem although I guess it doesn't really matter.

Just to clarify: Of course it makes a difference. Tightening down the top cap does nothing if you’ve already clamped your stem to the steerer. The top cap/expander assembly is there to press the stem down whilst pulling the fork up and therefore put preload on the upper and lower headset bearing. If the stem can’t move cuz it’s clamped to the steerer, you won’t get any preload on the headset. And sure, if you then go on and tighten down the top cap more and more, it might even break. Though in almost twenty years of biking I have never managed to kill a top cap like that. You might have had particularly bad quality ones.

[blackpyros]

Just to clarify: Of course it makes a difference. Tightening down the top cap does nothing if you’ve already clamped your stem to the steerer. The top cap/expander assembly is there to press the stem down whilst pulling the fork up and therefore put preload on the upper and lower headset bearing. If the stem can’t move cuz it’s clamped to the steerer, you won’t get any preload on the headset. And sure, if you then go on and tighten down the top cap more and more, it might even break. Though in almost twenty years of biking I have never managed to kill a top cap like that. You might have had particularly bad quality ones.

As I said I was not into headset shenanigans but thanks to kind people like you explaining things I think I finally understand it and it makes sense now.

Both caps were kind of shit, the VB one broke before even applying 6 Nm, the carbon one withstood that force but developed cracks probably because the countersunk head screw didn't fit the cap really well.

I now ordered caps together with screws declared to fit 100 % so I should be good now.
Thanks again everybody for help.

[JonMS]

As I said I was not into headset shenanigans but thanks to kind people like you explaining things I think I finally understand it and it makes sense now.

Both caps were kind of shit, the VB one broke before even applying 6 Nm, the carbon one withstood that force but developed cracks probably because the countersunk head screw didn't fit the cap really well.

I now ordered caps together with screws declared to fit 100 % so I should be good now.
Thanks again everybody for help.

Right on. Share some pics when its complete.

[Sebastian]

Since this thread is back from the dead, I thought I might as well give an update. More than 8000k done. No issues. Still the first headset with no signs of wear which is a pleasant surprise.  I wasn’t too confident in those bearings. This is the bike with the race wheels on: 60mm deep/1300g with 28mm tubulars. These feel soo nice when accelerating and the cornering feel is insane. I’m still in love with the handling of this frame and the super quick steering response.

[Serge_K]

Super nice rig. Looks nicer than some of the girls I've had in my bed.

[mattgolt]

Are we doing update posts? 3000k update from me! Still working like a charm. I have put some "skateboard" grip tape on the seatpost wedge, as it wanted to reduce the torque on these bolts after what I've seen in this thread. Seatpost now holds with 2nm on the bolts.

And I can confirm you can actually ride TT on this, if you are brave enough and have a 3d printer, lol. A bit sketchy, but I wanted to try out the TT position for a bit before I pull the trigger on a new frame

[JonMS]

Since this thread is back from the dead, I thought I might as well give an update. More than 8000k done. No issues. Still the first headset with no signs of wear which is a pleasant surprise.  I wasn’t too confident in those bearings. This is the bike with the race wheels on: 60mm deep/1300g with 28mm tubulars. These feel soo nice when accelerating and the cornering feel is insane. I’m still in love with the handling of this frame and the super quick steering response.

These bikes can RAIL corners. The set of 30c I have on my blue bike inflated to 32mm. I can lean the bike waaaaay too far into turns. Its amazing.

[JonMS]

Are we doing update posts? 3000k update from me! Still working like a charm. I have put some "skateboard" grip tape on the seatpost wedge, as it wanted to reduce the torque on these bolts after what I've seen in this thread. Seatpost now holds with 2nm on the bolts.

And I can confirm you can actually ride TT on this, if you are brave enough and have a 3d printer, lol. A bit sketchy, but I wanted to try out the TT position for a bit before I pull the trigger on a new frame

I've been contemplating getting these to try on 218 bars.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806076922208.html

[BeR]

I've been contemplating getting these to try on 218 bars.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806076922208.html

Unfortunately, you can't install spacers.

[Serge_K]

Are we doing update posts? 3000k update from me! Still working like a charm. I have put some "skateboard" grip tape on the seatpost wedge, as it wanted to reduce the torque on these bolts after what I've seen in this thread. Seatpost now holds with 2nm on the bolts.

And I can confirm you can actually ride TT on this, if you are brave enough and have a 3d printer, lol. A bit sketchy, but I wanted to try out the TT position for a bit before I pull the trigger on a new frame

Yes we do want update posts, it feels to me that chinese frames are now safe to ride, so day 1 posts are helpful about QC (facing, round holes, clean layups...), but now the question is about the long term performance / behaviour of these frames, and how they compare to "normal" bikes.

Also, please post more about your TT rig, i'm very curious! i just sold a giant propel i had turned into a TT rig (but slightly too large), with a bunch of 3d printed bits (i have a printer too), so i'm very interested in all things TT, and your rig looks very intriguing!

[mattgolt]

Hellooo fellow triathletes!

I wouldn't have thought that my sketchy TT setup actually does draw attention, but this is a forum of people riding sketchy frames from (partly) unknown sources, so theres that.

Let me share my journey for you guys, I can also share the 3d print files as .stl or solidworks-file if anyone wants them. Short disclaimer regarding 3d printing: Please, for the love of god, only use 3d printed parts on bikes if you absolutely know what you are doing. 3d printed parts are not rigid enough  to be used in any tensile stress - especially because the layer lines can break apart easily. If you pay close attention to the 3d printed parts that I use, you'll see that all of them are used in compression only.

- After lots of resarch I did not find any dogma fitting aero connectors, so I purchased the giant propel aero connectors (GTIN: 4713250834511). Hoping they would somehow fit. They did not fit, and clamping them down like this would have definitely damaged the handlebars (see first picture).
- I have then 3d printed banana-shaped adapters from a soft-ish rubber material (TPU, for those who are familiar with 3d printing materials), to adapt the giant-shape to the handlebar of the VB218. This has worked out okay-ish (see 2nd + 3rd picture) but the armpads were too wide apart and too far forward.
- In the first ride on my hometrainer, I have noticed, that these rubber bananas create side-to side flexibility.
- I have then had a local shop cnc mill an aluminium plate (see 4th picture) to solve two things: a) side to side flexibility and b) give me more options of placement, especially fore/aft, and distance between the armpads. This has worked execptionally well, as it gives enough variability in position, but also is super stable without clamping down too hard on the handlebars.

What I also did to improve the TT fit on this bike:
- get an ISM PN1.0 saddle (move wayy forward)
- get a 0° setback seatpost

Still on my list to do:
- get a between the arms bottle
- print a rear box, similar to what the guys at 4-frames do. First protoype is done already (see 5th picture)
- ride more
- get a TT frame (project for next winter  )

I've been contemplating getting these to try on 218 bars.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806076922208.html

Hi JonMS, these might actually fit - but I suppose you'll also need some kind of rubber adapters.