Author Topic: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb  (Read 28663 times)

brmeyer135

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2014, 12:26:56 PM »
Clarifying:  those with rear axle troubles have the iPlay version and not Shimano e-thru axle?...

turboenterprise

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2014, 05:40:39 PM »
I've had both because I broke my iplay version. Not their fault. 

Sjon7283

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #47 on: December 03, 2014, 01:30:14 PM »
Do you have a gxp or a bb30 xx1 crank? If Its a gxp, how was your installation? Did you use Any spacers? And witch bb set dit you install?

turboenterprise

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2014, 05:37:44 PM »
Ip057 - gxp - no spacers for xx1.  It was easy and I have never done it before.

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #49 on: December 06, 2014, 12:50:00 PM »
Do you have a gxp or a bb30 xx1 crank? If Its a gxp, how was your installation? Did you use Any spacers? And witch bb set dit you install?

BB30. No spacers. Wave washer only.

Wheels Manufacturing Enduro angular contact bearings with SRAM BB30 bottom bracket kit (needed for wave washer and dust covers).

Install was "easy".... Actually, if aiming for perfection, I find nothing "easy" about working on bikes, including installing BB30 bearings and crankset. I imagine if you are a professional bike mechanic, i.e. work on bikes for a living and have installed press fit BB30 bearings 100s of times, it becomes "easy". Like anything else, once you becomes practiced it becomes easier. Contrast that with what you read on the internet...

To press the bearings in I used BB30 dies that came with a Park Tool kit. I also bought a press off eBay, which consists of nothing more then a threaded rod and pair of nuts and "precision machined" dies. Unfortunately, I found the precision machined dies too well machined. They fit extremely tight in the ID of the BB30 bearings. Even heavily lubed, I press fit the dies to the bearings instead of the bearings to the BB30 shell. So I substituted in the "lower precision" Park Tool dies. Even so I found the shell very loose, and pulled out the ND side bearings when removing the crank. This suggests the ID of the Wheels Mfg. bearings are tight fitting and the IPlay shell is comparatively loose.

Pay attention to how you pre-load the bearings. If you immediately torque down the crank bolt to spec. I found you will impart an eccentricity to the crank, and it will visible spin "untrue". The correct procedure I found was to spin the crank in the bearings as you gradually apply torque so the bearings in the race can center themselves. I have found this to be less of an issue with GXP style BB.

The crank is working flawlessly, so far, after only 3 rides. No dreaded BB30 creak. Very stiff and smooth.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2015, 09:24:25 PM by frankR »

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #50 on: December 06, 2014, 01:06:58 PM »
Ashima rotors arrived in the mail today (same as Quaxar as far as I can tell). Purchased direct from Taiwan off of eBay.

Weigh in well over the advertised (66g) at 86g. That's a 30% difference! Without screws they are 74g (12% difference).

Delta weight compared to Shimano is 78g (including screws).

1.80mm thickness. Surface grinding looks good. Same thickness as Shimano "Ice Tech" rotors.

Purchased SwissStop Disc 28 e. The "e" representing "electric bike". These had the highest average rating on SwissStop website for power, modulation, and wear rate. Figured I would try them. Running the standard sintered SwissStop pads on my Formula Brakes on the SJ, which I have been pleased with. These "e" pads also appear to be a sintered compound, impregnated with something (green stuff?)



« Last Edit: December 06, 2014, 01:12:59 PM by frankR »

brmeyer135

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2014, 02:08:46 PM »
That is heavy and disappointing as a % that is way off...your bolts aren't titanium are they?
My Quaxar discs were 69g for 160mm and 7g for the 6 bolts(titanium)
Your not talking about Shimano ice tech rt98 then - 140mm ice tech is 91g w/o bolts
Nice tip about the crank and bb.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2014, 02:17:33 PM by brmeyer135 »

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #52 on: December 25, 2014, 01:50:00 PM »
Glad I rode the new machine as much as I could back in November because my area of Northern California has seen well over one foot of desperately needed rain over the past several weeks. On the downside this caused a month long hiatus in riding the new chiner. The SJ has substituted on a couple muddy rides over this time.

Upgrades:

- Extralite grips installed. Love'em so far!
- Ashima rotors + SwissStop Disc e Pads (more on this in next post)
- Chinese $20 carbon bottle cages. Garbage! Trash can.

Mixed results with the cable slap mod. By and large cable slap is gone. I only hear it on the biggest hits or drops. I am content with how things are for now.

From one extreme to another, the once parched Northern California hills are now sodden and glowing green with luscious grass providing hopes of the record breaking California drought subsiding.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 01:55:47 PM by frankR »

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #53 on: December 25, 2014, 02:17:36 PM »
Unfortunately my instincts were correct regarding the Shimano rotors being glazed. This past Tuesday afternoon was my first ride on the 256SL following the harsh Miwok decent back in late November. Towards the end of that descent my brakes started to fade. Immediately I suspected they were glazed. On my first descent Tuesday I had zero braking power and the rotors were howling frighteningly loud.

My attempt to restore the Shimano rotor surfaces with sandpaper followed by a systematic break-in process was a disappointing failure. Brakes were oscillating and howling with no power.

I can only suspect the Shimano compound does not hold-up well to high heat. Even when operating at peak performance I was not impressed with the breaking power of the Shimano pads.

So this meant the new Ashima rotors went on along with the new SwissStop Disc "e" pads...

After following the bed-in process described below, I am extremely impressed with the Ashima rotor and SwissStop pad combo. Great power and modulation. The XTR brakes are beginning to live up to the high expectations I had for them. If this result holds up, these Ashima rotors are among the best value I have ever come across in road or MtB components, considering they can be bought right now on eBay for $28/pr!

The bed-in process:

No doubt there are many different methods by which one can "bed-in" a fresh set of brake rotor. Below I describe one such process that has worked for me in the past.

I start by riding on flat ground dragging the front or rear brake lightly to build up heat on the disk and pads while not allowing the rotors to make any noise (the dreaded squeal). After a minute or so of this when I feel the rotors begin to bite I do a couple of hard'ish braking runs from ~20MPH coming to a near stop, but not to a complete stop. It is critical you do not allow the brakes to make any noise or oscillate! This will cause uneven bed-in and that pattern that causing noise/oscillation will bed into the rotors surface and you may ruin your rotors. If the brakes make noise, brake harder and harder until it stops. I repeat the above process for the front and rear brakes independently. If your legs are burning and your breathing hard you've done it right. You need some heat to transfer resin and friction compound to the rotor surface.

After about 5 of these braking runs I stop and remove the pads from the calipers for inspection. As the pad compound goes through a thermal cycling it will look blackened, see photo below. Curiously, I noticed on the SwissStop pads that only the center of the pads were black and the perimeter looked like new compound. This is a problem since it will not promote even "bed-in" of the rotor surface. To correct this I lapped the surface of each pads with 120 grit sandpaper on a smooth workbench surface. Only a few seconds of a circular grinding pattern are required to remove the blacken layer and expose fresh compound and flatten the pad surface.

The pads then go back into the calipers, being careful not to contaminate them during this whole process and I repeat the same bed-in process of dragging the brakes followed by hard'ish braking runs. If you're doing this on asphalt/concrete make sure you use old tires because rapid acceleration/deceleration will quickly chew through your tires. I then head out on to a ride with a steep hill to complete the bed-in process. Yesterday I had a 2500 foot climb averaging about 10 percent grade. On the descent, I don't allow the bike speed to exceed much over 25 MPH and I brake both the front and rear as evenly as possible without allowing the wheels to lock, which the rear is prone to easily locking, especially if you have a heavily worn treadles bald rear like I do!

That should complete the bed in process. However, I am going to avoid any high heat descents (like Miwok) for a few rides to let the brake bed set-in (playing it cautious).

Pads and rotors following bed-in yesterday:

« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 02:34:00 PM by frankR »

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #54 on: December 25, 2014, 02:47:41 PM »
That is heavy and disappointing as a % that is way off...your bolts aren't titanium are they?
My Quaxar discs were 69g for 160mm and 7g for the 6 bolts(titanium)
Your not talking about Shimano ice tech rt98 then - 140mm ice tech is 91g w/o bolts
Nice tip about the crank and bb.

No bolts are not Ti. I think Quaxar gets lower weights with a two piece design. The friction surface looks identical to the Ashima rotors. I suspect Quaxar modifies them to obtain the lower mass two-piece design.

My Shimano rotors are XT SM-RT86 Rotor - 6-Bolt. Glad to hear you liked the crank tip.

Two-piece Quaxar design. I've seen several styles of this design. These are available on eBay for $38 a piece. Saves 14g over the Ashima.

« Last Edit: December 25, 2014, 02:50:57 PM by frankR »

brmeyer135

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #55 on: December 26, 2014, 06:12:18 PM »
I thought the 2-piece design would help with heat and avoid warping....I can't tell so far, mostly cause nothing to compare to.
So far, they haven't been problematic like some 2-piece, the connection point kinda 'wollered' out and were essentially ruined.
The holes in the brake lanes of these, Ashima and others would have the benefit of cooling quicker to help with less metal for braking.
Otherwise, glad to hear they are working well for ya.
When does your race season or races start?

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #56 on: December 28, 2014, 10:30:22 AM »
Race season begins on the road bike with a hill climb on New Years Day next Thursday. First MtB race is Jan 18th. Most of my races this spring will be road races on the road bike.

Not sure how the two piece design would aid heat dissipation. However, it likely does aid in durability by mitigating bending / warping.

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #57 on: December 30, 2014, 12:26:27 PM »
AbsoluteBLACK monolithic chainring installed. Went on in less than 5min. As for the claimed weight savings...

This is proper exaggeration!

"These chainrings save more than 150g over the regular spider and chainring combo."

375% less weight savings than claimed.

Not surprised. 150g sounded far-fetched. They must make this claim based on a low-end SRAM 3x crank, with tungsten chainrings, and uranium bolts.

Update: After one ride these rings work great. Marginally stiffer. The XX1 crank was already very stiff so not much room for improvement. It does change the look of the bike quite a bit. Cleaner, more business oriented, form following function compared to the SRAM rings.

With only 40g saved compared to stock XX1, not sure it's worth the investment for most folks.

« Last Edit: December 30, 2014, 05:07:23 PM by frankR »

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #58 on: December 30, 2014, 12:32:25 PM »
25,000 feet climbed on the 256SL last week. Rock solid so far.

Anti-cableslap needs work... Other than that, no complaints.


JohnnyNT

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2015, 01:00:09 PM »
Some good wheels for you if you want to make it even lighter, quite expensive though  ;)
http://r2-bike.com/Wheelset-29-Extralite-HyperHubs-Sapim-CX-Super-77-Composites-29-Clincher