LTWOO ER9 & ERX - Electronic groepsets

[jonathanf2]

A couple notes regarding the differences between the EGR and ER9 groupsets. I notice the battery cable port on the EGR seems to place the cable deeper and more secure into the RD. It takes a bit more force to remove the plug. On the ER9 it doesn't go in as deep and is easier to pull out the plug. I'm wondering if that difference might account for the better water ingress protection on the EGR? Though I wouldn't submerge either groupset underwater, but I think I'd be more confident to wash my bike with the EGR groupset.

Also the EGR shift levers feel like a nylon/carbon fiber composite. I'm not sure it's full carbon fiber, but it's definitely not alloy, at least with the shift levers I've received. The shift buttons are also more tactile and there's a distinct clicking sound. Battery holder on the EGR only has 1 cable port. EGR brakes are definitely nicer and are a one piece design. Though it still uses those stupid adapters. I accidentally stripped the thread on my ER9 160mm adapter. Luckily 80 Design Store sent me a replacement, albeit me paying a small postage fee.

[Serge_K]

https://www.mantel.com/fr/groupes-route-double-compact

Interesting price point.
Assuming 100 eur for the crankset (it's branded, but it's only 105, and it's heavy, so i'd rather ride a chinese carbon one myself)
Assuming 80 eur for the cassette (it probably shifts great, but it's heavy, so i put 80 as it's the price of ultralight full steel cassettes i've been buying in china)
Assuming 25 eur for the chain (middle of the road chain)
Assuming 10 eur for the discs (i know they cost more, but the ones on the link aren't ice tech tralala, and so i'll compare them to regular no name OEM steel discs
That's 680 eur for the mini groupset (that price is pretty personal, if you have access to a liquid ebay market, you may be able to sell components at a higher price)

I paid 425 for my er9 groups, and they've all died, so let's add 150 each for a RD. Arguably once the RD died, you ought to buy another one to have a spare ready if you want to keep riding. So it's 575, or 725. Given i've been ghosted by Winow (i strongly suggest you dont give them your business) and that LTWOO support is atrocious, I'd assume that you pay for your spare RD. But some have had more luck than me, and tehnically, i got 2 or 3 replaced under warranty, before i got ghosted and gave up.
So, ER9 has a lower upfront cost, especially if you can get them cheaper as per Jonathanf2 (I think this is geo dependent, the US pays less than Europe for AliX things, i think because they dodge all taxes / VAT, while AliX does pay VAT to the EU), and shipping also probably costs less to the US than EU), and if you order via an aliX store that honours warranties, you may not need to spend extra on RD (although keep in mind that if your RD dies, the warranty process takes weeks from the time your bike stops working to you replacing the RD).

So... interesting price point. Most of my friends are completely hopeless with their bikes, so i can see how paying up more upfront to get shimano (i'm assuming it really does "just works") makes sense for a lot of people.
I've been happy with my er9, when it's working. But they literally all died by now, except 1. that's some atrocious fail rate. The good thing is that everything works reliably, except the RD, and the RD "only" costs 150 eur shipped to my door.

[nabilou]

Interesting price point.
...
So... interesting price point. Most of my friends are completely hopeless with their bikes, so i can see how paying up more upfront to get shimano (i'm assuming it really does "just works") makes sense for a lot of people.
I've been happy with my er9, when it's working. But they literally all died by now, except 1. that's some atrocious fail rate. The good thing is that everything works reliably, except the RD, and the RD "only" costs 150 eur shipped to my door.

do we know what is going wrong with the RD (not waterproof or mechanical failure)?
btw i intrested in your best chinese option (reliable ) for light carbon crankset and cassette

[Serge_K]

do we know what is going wrong with the RD (not waterproof or mechanical failure)?
btw i intrested in your best chinese option (reliable ) for light carbon crankset and cassette

no idea. i dont think ltwoo know themselves. it's clearly several reasons / flaws, not just one. the hope is that as time passes, they make it better. i want to believe that newer versions break less than earlier versions.
reliable carbon crankset... i have installed 5 or 6 racework ones, i broke one. if you undertorque and use loctite, they work. the alu rings are very soft. it's on my tractor. i'd buy it again. i think i paid 125 dollars for a full set before shipping. if you pay more than 150 shipped, you're paying too much.
cassette, the alix full steel one that costs c.80-90 eur, it's been discussed a lot on the forum.

General note: aliexpress is increasingly playing with prices, so using discounts is sometimes a good deal, but often, it simply brings the price back down to where it's supposed to be. So it's a skill, it's important to understand the coupons, the sale periods and so on. otherwise you can spend 200 for something that should cost 140. Which isnt the end of the world, but it quickly means you'd be better off buying locally.

[pavlo.k]

I feel stupid asking about it but can anyone explain how to use the front derailleur?
Both front shifter buttons do exactly the same thing: they loop through four derailleur positions (small -> trim -> large -> trim -> small -> trim, etc.). Even if I alternate between buttons, I still end up running through this loop.
But how do I move back from the trim position? Let's say I'm in a big ring and I shifted to a larger sprocket on the cassette and I wanted to trim the derailleur. I press any button on the shifter and it trims but then if I shift to a harder gear on the cassette and I want to move the front derailleur to the most outbound position. I can't do it since no matter which button I press it shifts to a small ring from the trim position

[jonathanf2]

I feel stupid asking about it but can anyone explain how to use the front derailleur?
Both front shifter buttons do exactly the same thing: they loop through four derailleur positions (small -> trim -> large -> trim -> small -> trim, etc.). Even if I alternate between buttons, I still end up running through this loop.
But how do I move back from the trim position? Let's say I'm in a big ring and I shifted to a larger sprocket on the cassette and I wanted to trim the derailleur. I press any button on the shifter and it trims but then if I shift to a harder gear on the cassette and I want to move the front derailleur to the most outbound position. I can't do it since no matter which button I press it shifts to a small ring from the trim position

Is your FD set for One Touch operation? If so turn it OFF so it won't loop through. Once set to OFF, you can apply trim when in the bigger or smaller cogs. For example if you're approaching your low gear, you can tap the left upshift button to apply trim. Same goes when in the high gears to apply the trim. Hope that helps!

[SirBikealot]

Is your FD set for One Touch operation? If so turn it OFF so it won't loop through. Once set to OFF, you can apply trim when in the bigger or smaller cogs. For example if you're approaching your low gear, you can tap the left upshift button to apply trim. Same goes when in the high gears to apply the trim. Hope that helps!

jep, that doesn't help either.
The problem is, even when on touch is off, that you can trim on the big and small chainring but you CAN't "un"trim. You have to go to the other chainring and then back to get out of the trim position.
that said, i don't have any solution to offer.

[jonathanf2]

do we know what is going wrong with the RD (not waterproof or mechanical failure)?
btw i intrested in your best chinese option (reliable ) for light carbon crankset and cassette

As I mentioned in my ER9 versus EGR comparison post, LTwoo designed the battery battery cable to seat deeper and more snug into the EGR battery port. I think that might account for why there are less moisture issues with the EGR versus the ER9/X. It takes more force to disconnect the cable. Though it's not known if LTwoo has already tweaked newer ER9/X RDs. I've mentioned on this thread that my 2 ER9 groupsets are running on different firmwares on both the RD and FD. They must apply on-the-fly adjustments in the factory production line.

I'm a big fan of the Riro carbon cranksets in terms of price. I have no issue with the alloy axle, but I'm sub 70kg and I don't put out massive amounts of watts  In terms of road cassettes, the Goldix/ZTTO UL all-steel cassette has been very good. My current 12 speed 11-34t Goldix cassette has been solid. Though I had to try several chains. Shimano chains work alright, but are a bit noisy on the Goldix cassette. I'm now using a KMC X12 chain and shifting has been very good and much more quiet. Also you can't go wrong with a Shimano chain/cassette combo. My other ER9 road bike is running Shimano 11 speed chain/cassette and it shifts excellent.

So, ER9 has a lower upfront cost, especially if you can get them cheaper as per Jonathanf2 (I think this is geo dependent, the US pays less than Europe for AliX things, i think because they dodge all taxes / VAT, while AliX does pay VAT to the EU), and shipping also probably costs less to the US than EU), and if you order via an aliX store that honours warranties, you may not need to spend extra on RD (although keep in mind that if your RD dies, the warranty process takes weeks from the time your bike stops working to you replacing the RD).

So... interesting price point. Most of my friends are completely hopeless with their bikes, so i can see how paying up more upfront to get shimano (i'm assuming it really does "just works") makes sense for a lot of people.
I've been happy with my er9, when it's working. But they literally all died by now, except 1. that's some atrocious fail rate. The good thing is that everything works reliably, except the RD, and the RD "only" costs 150 eur shipped to my door.

US residents only pay local state sales tax. If you live in a sales tax-free state, the savings is even bigger. Though starting next year, US residents might have increased pricing. Even though I've been able to keep my ER9 groupsets working and I even revived a dead RD, I wouldn't recommend the system for the average cyclist. It takes a certain DIYer mentality to get the most out of this groupset. LTwoo needs to invest more in reliability and customer service. All they have to do is take a Wheeltop approach and either sell direct with full warranty support or specify authorized dealer support similar to how 80 Design Store has been stepping up.

[jonathanf2]

jep, that doesn't help either.
The problem is, even when on touch is off, that you can trim on the big and small chainring but you CAN't "un"trim. You have to go to the other chainring and then back to get out of the trim position.
that said, i don't have any solution to offer.

The LTwoo app requires FD adjustment to be either in the low or high gear settings. I believe from there, manual trim can be applied when riding. Using the app FD adjustment, I haven't had issues with FD rubbing.

[pavlo.k]

jep, that doesn't help either.
The problem is, even when on touch is off, that you can trim on the big and small chainring but you CAN't "un"trim. You have to go to the other chainring and then back to get out of the trim position.
that said, i don't have any solution to offer.

It does help. I had it in one touch mode or whaever it's called. Once in the normal mode you can trim both ways using upshift button on big ring or downshift on the small ring.
The confusing part is that you can't actually trim back and forth when using the same gear in the back. When you are on a larger sprockets on the cassette you click upshift and it moves the front derailleur closer to the frame. Once you've done that you can't  "untrim" unless you shift to a harder gear in the back

[jonathanf2]

It does help. I had it in one touch mode or whaever it's called. Once in the normal mode you can trim both ways using upshift button on big ring or downshift on the small ring.
The confusing part is that you can't actually trim back and forth when using the same gear in the back. When you are on a larger sprockets on the cassette you click upshift and it moves the front derailleur closer to the frame. Once you've done that you can't  "untrim" unless you shift to a harder gear in the back

Apparently the older LTwoo app software had auto-trim enabled, but they removed it most likely due to Shimano patents.

[ngthanhphuc]

Ltwoo electronic groupset for TT seem available

[SillyMochi]

Usual "here is the link post":

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http://www.youtube.com/v/GlF2LhmwSlo