Patty's Long Rant and Guide To Affordable Frames

[patliean1]

Wiggle/Chain Reaction is (or was) awesome. I'd buy all my nutrition and handlebars from them. I was able to snag a spare set of Prime carbon aero handlebars from them for $100 right before they stopped shipping to the USA.

The good news is you can still find the alloy version of those bars rebranded as "Control Tech" on Amazon. A few bucks more expensive than the Prime branded version, but the ergonomics are the best in my collection of bars.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087M96R9V/?coliid=I1VS1T30JAMQVF&colid=39IDL28LA9NSD&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Alternatively I also have a pair of these FSA Vision TriMax Aero alloy bars. 380mm at the hoods and 400mm in the drops. They also provide a lot reach (90mm) which I love, and they are lighter than the Prime alloy bars. Mostly they offer full internal cable routing like the Prime bars.

Vision/FSA Website
https://shop.visiontechusa.com/en/handlebars/road-triathlon/trimax-aero

Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Full-Speed-Ahead-Bicycle-Handlebar/dp/B089WJHZCD/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3ENRN411W326W&keywords=Full+Speed+Ahead+FSA+Vision+TriMax+Aero+Bicycle+Handlebar+-&qid=1706453600&s=sporting-goods&sprefix=full+speed+ahead+fsa+vision+trimax+aero+bicycle+handlebar+-%2Csporting%2C181&sr=1-4

[BalticSea]

Wiggle/Chain Reaction is (or was) awesome. I'd buy all my nutrition and handlebars from them. I was able to snag a spare set of Prime carbon aero handlebars from them for $100 right before they stopped shipping to the USA.

The good news is you can still find the alloy version of those bars rebranded as "Control Tech" on Amazon. A few bucks more expensive than the Prime branded version, but the ergonomics are the best in my collection of bars.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B087M96R9V/?coliid=I1VS1T30JAMQVF&colid=39IDL28LA9NSD&psc=1&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it

Alternatively I also have a pair of these FSA Vision TriMax Aero alloy bars. 380mm at the hoods and 400mm in the drops. They also provide a lot reach (90mm) which I love, and they are lighter than the Prime alloy bars. Mostly they offer full internal cable routing like the Prime bars.

Vision/FSA Website
https://shop.visiontechusa.com/en/handlebars/road-triathlon/trimax-aero

Amazon
https://www.amazon.com/Full-Speed-Ahead-Bicycle-Handlebar/dp/B089WJHZCD/ref=sr_1_4?crid=3ENRN411W326W&keywords=Full+Speed+Ahead+FSA+Vision+TriMax+Aero+Bicycle+Handlebar+-&qid=1706453600&s=sporting-goods&sprefix=full+speed+ahead+fsa+vision+trimax+aero+bicycle+handlebar+-%2Csporting%2C181&sr=1-4

ControlTech is the actual OEM for Wiggle handlebars IIRC

[Wildh24]

Yep I got some of my shit from there

Great deals!  Wish we had some like that in the US. It does seem UK has many better deals on biking stuff. Even the secondary market is quite a bit less.

[TCal]

I’m going to be honest here: I very much miss the glory days of this forum during the pandemic years. It was a perfect storm. People were stuck at home with extra discretionary income and free-time, while major bike brands were dealing with fulfillment delays. The rise of Chinese alternatives during this time brought so much excitement to this forum. Forum members were passionate about helping each other, and the overall vibe felt like a positive community of budget-minded enthusiasts. You could easily spend hours each day reading pages upon pages of new posts. The forum was basically a party everyday. I’m lucky to have joined during COVID.

Preach!


For all the chatter around here about prices leveling up, or cooling market conditions, it is still the case that to buy “quality” however you choose to define it, it is upward from 3k/4k mucho dollars. For me, is about the love of riding, and riding the bike that I invest on building myself, versus the bike marketeering wants me to buy.  I choose the former. The bike I need/love versus the bike somebody else wants me to have.  The love for building things, plus the love of riding. And Life is good.

I am in the middle of two builds, both Velobuild. A 168 and CX-02 because we all know, cross will come again. Velobuild’s customer service has worked for me.  When certain pieces had been left out of the shipping, VB issued them asap much to my delight (and quiet frankly, my surprise).

Being somewhat of a late comer to the forums, I have found reading through the posts, old and new, to be highly instructive, timely and relevant.  Being a late buyer of a velobuild, I am seeying their product has evolved from the early days and the build issues that others have had, I have either averted them, or prepared for them. Some issues have disappeared completely, like the headset dust cap issue of it rubbing against the the top of the head tube. That particular issue has been engineered out in the frames that I have.

Keep up the engagement and the passion isn the forum.
Onward onward. 

[Axiomatik]

10. VeloBuild VB-168
9. Dengfu R12 (harshest on the list)
8. TanTan X38
7. VeloBuild VB-177
6. Yoeleo R12
5. 2022 Allez Sprint (most versatile)
4. Yishun R086-D
3. Tavelo Attack (lightest frameset)
2. Giant Propel Advanced Pro
1. Winspace T1500 (best value)

Notes:
-The Dengfu R12 is SUPER stiff. Stiffer than the 168, 177, X38, and R12. Perfect if responsiveness is important to you. However, even with 28c tires it’s tough to live with everyday. Although  I've done 160km rides on it LoL. Dengfu discontinued it I think.

-I’m planning to rebuild my X38 this season. Originally I had to donor the SRAM eTap groupset for my Yishun build. It’s a great looking frame, stands out among other Chinese builds. Makes for a good coffee ride bike, but it could not be my only road bike option. I just found the overall ride dynamics to be neutral and somewhat clumsy, even after initially thinking it was a super stiff ride. YMMV.

-Had I bought my Tavelo Attack before my Giant Propel…I probably would not have bought the Propel. The Tavelo offers 9/10 the dynamics of the Propel for half the price. However, the extra 10% is still noticeable. Having the support of a local bike shop/Giant dealer and essentially a “no questions asked” warranty policy has come in handy for me.

-The biggest disappointment has been both the VB-168 and the Yoeleo R12. The 168 (my particular frame) is a noodle. But the geometry works so well for me. Yoeleo advertises the R12 has a race bike. It is not. Big brand quality paint, 32-34c tire clearance, and great fit and finish. Packaging is some of the best in the biz, better than Giant and Specialized. But it truly is an endurance bike. For the price of the R12 you could almost buy a Yishun/LC frame and a set of wheels from Leon/Yuanan which is a far more compelling offering.

Hey Pat, can you talk a bit on why Elves didn't make the cut at all? I was pretty interested in the Falath, but ultimately decided the geometry didn't work for me. That being said I like how they're setup with a distributor in the US, feels more Winspace esque than some of the other b2b brands.

[Takiyaki]

Hey Pat, can you talk a bit on why Elves didn't make the cut at all? I was pretty interested in the Falath, but ultimately decided the geometry didn't work for me. That being said I like how they're setup with a distributor in the US, feels more Winspace esque than some of the other b2b brands.

I meant to ask this too. If I do another build it will probably be a VB-R-066 or a Falath. Elves def seems to have a more serious distribution setup. I know they are big in Australia and Malaysia too I think.

[Macedingle]

When I approached my build, it was less about saving alot of money and more about beating the market. Canyon just did a price drop, but most mainstream brands were 3k in Canyons case but 3,250 to 3,500 for a 105 mechanical build. This is with the aluminum wheels that always come stock on entry level road bikes. I think macro conditions are changing, which will make chinese builds less of a “deal.” But in my case the fact is that for $3k I got a T1550, HYPERS and 105. Compare that to the Emonda sl5 which is $3350, with clunker wheels. Spending the same money as an entry road bike build you can have the weight and aero benefits of carbon wheels. Also I know people on this forum who are REALLY down the rabbit whole that can piece together builds for sub 2k at similar spec. I would guess the main benefit this forum has spread is education on how to get cheaper carbon wheels. Many argue wheels are the most important upgrade

[BalticSea]

To add something to discussion about value perspective: Winspace Agile frameset would cost roughly 2000€ to get shipped to me. Meanwhile, Giant TCR Advanced 2 costs 2800€ with full mechanical 105 groupset. Building Agile to the same spec would cost way more, considering 105 groupset alone is 550€. I guess Agile does provide better value if you are building top spec bike vs upgrading the TCR

[Sebastian]

Also I know people on this forum who are REALLY down the rabbit whole that can piece together builds for sub 2k at similar spec. I would guess the main benefit this forum has spread is education on how to get cheaper carbon wheels. Many argue wheels are the most important upgrade

ATM, you can only really save serious money if you go full low budget with direct2consumer-parts from China. I built my TT-X38 with LTWOO er9, Magene powermeter and full carbon wheels + a number of 2nd hand parts (like my Sram cranks, saddle and Vittoria tires) for less than 2.5k EUR. But to do that, you're required to invest A LOT of time researching parts, be prepared to deal with problems when building the bike up and you need to take the risk that customer service and warranty might be troublesome or even more or less non existent.

I mean, there's a GIANT concept store in my city. For not that much more money, I could probably walk in there, grab a bike and come back and have the shop deal with issues, should there be any. But for me, this is also about the journey. I like to come up with the idea of "my dream bike", source all the parts and think every little detail through and then build up something that I couldn't buy anywhere else and that potentially no one else has.

[Cnasta]

I don't think your rant qualifies as long.....

That being said, thanks for posting mate. Loving you reply's both here and on Insta

[TCal]

ATM, you can only really save serious money if you go full low budget with direct2consumer-parts from China. I built my TT-X38 with LTWOO er9, Magene powermeter and full carbon wheels + a number of 2nd hand parts (like my Sram cranks, saddle and Vittoria tires) for less than 2.5k EUR. But to do that, you're required to invest A LOT of time researching parts, be prepared to deal with problems when building the bike up and you need to take the risk that customer service and warranty might be troublesome or even more or less non existent.

I mean, there's a GIANT concept store in my city. For not that much more money, I could probably walk in there, grab a bike and come back and have the shop deal with issues, should there be any. But for me, this is also about the journey. I like to come up with the idea of "my dream bike", source all the parts and think every little detail through and then build up something that I couldn't buy anywhere else and that potentially no one else has.

Agree Completely.

[jstrawks]

The good news is you can still find the alloy version of those bars rebranded as "Control Tech" on Amazon. A few bucks more expensive than the Prime branded version, but the ergonomics are the best in my collection of bars.

Thanks for this tip. I wish they came narrower.

I sense that you have no love for Carbonda, or Flybike frames in general. Why is that?

[00Garza]

Oh man. I remember way back in the day when Velobuild was THE forum for chinese carbon. Before it was turned over to Chris and Zhongwei (actually not sure if Chris still works for Zhongwei) and became another seller. You could find all the vendors and buyer reviews there. Also that thread on Roadbikereview still had some traction. Its pretty dead now.

Then this forum took that spot and has been super helpful to my latest build. Its definitely expanded beyond frame selection to other rising Chinese gear (powermeters, computers, kit, etc) and I'm grateful for that.

[jonathanf2]

Is there anyone else on here who just rides for fitness? I actually don't follow bike brands, components, etc. as long as it's functional and hits a target price point. I just try to make sure my bike fit is good, mechanics are pristine and weight+aero positioning is optimized. I'd rather focus on nutrition, rest recovery, cardio and strength training. Plus I guess I'm more down the rabbit hole than most, since I can take advantage of questionable weight limited components and smaller/stiffer bike frames. I somewhat enjoy trying obscure and unknown bike frames/parts!

[patliean1]

Hey Pat, can you talk a bit on why Elves didn't make the cut at all? I was pretty interested in the Falath, but ultimately decided the geometry didn't work for me. That being said I like how they're setup with a distributor in the US, feels more Winspace esque than some of the other b2b brands.

I meant to ask this too. If I do another build it will probably be a VB-R-066 or a Falath. Elves def seems to have a more serious distribution setup. I know they are big in Australia and Malaysia too I think.

The answer is simple: My list only includes frames I've actually reviewed  - But if you really wanna know why I haven't made an effort to get the Falath Evo in my hands, just ask @PLA. I pretty much share the same views as him.

I'd also like to mention that my original intentions were never to start a YouTube channel nor become the "Chinese Bike Dude". Honestly I just didn't have money for a big-brand bike at the time. The idea of building a bike for the first time intrigued me, and I figured reviewing my Yoeleo R6 would be a cool little video.

The more mainstream brands don't want be to associated with anything "Chinese." Quite ironic if you ask me. So I needed to widen my scope beyond Chinese frames in order to attract new brands for reviews. Brands like Specialized and Giant aren't exactly giving low-level YouTubers like myself "free" frames, which meant I've spent more of own resources in 2023 than all the years past. Yishun R086D, Giant Propel, and TanTan x38 (plus all the associated groupsets for each) were all bought with my own money.