Author Topic: Dengfu M06  (Read 18889 times)

adbl

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #30 on: October 25, 2017, 04:14:02 PM »
I use Linkage Design software. It's a program you can draw bike frames and then analyze the geometry. You can trace a frame, put in specs from a known frame or design one of your own. The link to the site is here:  http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/

carbonazza

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #31 on: October 25, 2017, 05:29:40 PM »
Thanks a lot! Very interesting.
What a chance, I understand Spanish  :)

adbl

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2017, 10:22:30 AM »
Google Translator works well for me  ;)

olao

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2017, 02:24:43 PM »
Some of the theory behind is explained on youtube in videos such as this, which I have found quite useful:
« Last Edit: October 26, 2017, 02:26:53 PM by olao »

carbonazza

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #34 on: October 27, 2017, 03:21:31 AM »
Thank you for these links full of material !
There is much more on bike theory than I thought.

Stef27

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #35 on: October 27, 2017, 07:58:46 AM »
Hello
I read that in case of tailgating of the damper, the rear axle can come to touch the frame.
What do you think ?
Is there something to modify ?

Stef27

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #36 on: October 27, 2017, 08:24:02 AM »

adbl

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #37 on: October 27, 2017, 09:46:02 AM »
I have read about that as well. I don't know if DengFu made a change but with my bike when the shock is completely bottomed out there is plenty of clearance for just about any size tire. I don't know why that owner had that issue.

olao

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #38 on: April 24, 2018, 04:04:27 PM »
Will try to resurrect this old thread, just in case anyone cares to continue the discussion on the linkage and suspension of the frame.

I just decided to measure the leverage ratio on my M06 - which is the awesomest bike I have owned btw - because I still have some trimming of the rear shock to do.

When I drew it in Linkage the leverage ratio is very progressive, but that has not really been my feeling riding it. The measurements tell me that it is a completely constant leverage ratio of about 2.75. I trust the measurements (23 measurements of shock compression and wheel travel, regression line completely linear, with an R2=0.999, line through the origin), but not my linkage drawing. In Linkage I was not able to draw the little swing arm between the seat stay /rear triangle and shock, and I guess that swing arm actually bends the seat stay during compression. And that might linearize the shock - wheel travel relation.

Any thoughts on this?

What shocks are you using? I am using a Manitou McLeod, which is probably a great shock, but I have a hard time finding a single rebound setting that makes me happy on every trail. I will probably change the shim stack eventually, but decided to measure the leverage ratio to help me think about if I would be helped by a larger can on it.

charlesrg

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #39 on: April 24, 2018, 10:13:39 PM »
Will try to resurrect this old thread, just in case anyone cares to continue the discussion on the linkage and suspension of the frame.

I just decided to measure the leverage ratio on my M06 - which is the awesomest bike I have owned btw - because I still have some trimming of the rear shock to do.

When I drew it in Linkage the leverage ratio is very progressive, but that has not really been my feeling riding it. The measurements tell me that it is a completely constant leverage ratio of about 2.75. I trust the measurements (23 measurements of shock compression and wheel travel, regression line completely linear, with an R2=0.999, line through the origin), but not my linkage drawing. In Linkage I was not able to draw the little swing arm between the seat stay /rear triangle and shock, and I guess that swing arm actually bends the seat stay during compression. And that might linearize the shock - wheel travel relation.

Any thoughts on this?

What shocks are you using? I am using a Manitou McLeod, which is probably a great shock, but I have a hard time finding a single rebound setting that makes me happy on every trail. I will probably change the shim stack eventually, but decided to measure the leverage ratio to help me think about if I would be helped by a larger can on it.

I also tried to draw it in Linkage but could not finish it to spec because of the seatstay flexing instead of pivot. I'm thinking about pointing a gopro to the suspension and see how it behaves.
I also have a sussmybike that I'm waiting for years from kickstarter, that should help suspension setup.
So far on the same page, love the bike, but when I look at the bobbing while pedaling it does not seem optimal.

adbl

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2018, 08:14:45 AM »
A couple of things about my bike. I have been riding it for about a year now. Best mtb bike i have ever owned! I am using an X-Fusion O2 RLR shock and in the beginning i wasn't sure the tune was correct for the bike. I sent the shock out to MAD Racing in Reno NV. They have been great to deal with, can't say enough good things about them!!! Gave Mike all my information, sent him drawings of the bike and i have to say, other than pressure, i haven't touched anything on the shock since. Feels great and i am using the whole amount of travel without ever bottoming out. I will say on the bigger drops and hits i can feel the seatstays flex. They're supposed to do that, it's part of the suspension package. I'm sure you are feeling it too. Might be why you feel the ratio is more linear than the drawings suggests.

I must have drawn the frame at least 10 times before i felt i had it right. Now, i'm using an oval chainring so it always feels like the suspension is bobbing but when i set the oring position at where i'm pedaling (on a flat road) the oring doesn't move at all. Maybe using a  GoPro will help to visualize what's going on back there. I think a lot is made of suspension bobbing and how detrimental it is to performance and efficiency. I used to be a big believer of that but now i concentrate more on how it puts the power to the rear wheel. On a mtb you are constantly flexing, moving, changing your seat position front and aft and i don't feel any of these conditions are effected by bobb. If you ride out west where you have long flat climbs straight pedaling might be effected but on single track where the riding surface is constantly changing i don't feel bobb comes into play at all. My M06 accelerates really well, puts the power to the rear tire extremely well and climbs technical climbs like a goat. Yes, other frames might show better specs but to me it's more about how the bike feels underneath you that counts  :)

olao

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2018, 04:20:02 PM »
I have sort of given up Linkage, since the numbers there do not necessarily reflect the true numbers on the bike. The problem, I suppose, is that Linkage does not have this kind of design as an option. Or i have not realized how to do it. At any rate, the numbers are less important the the bike's actual behavior anyway. But of course, the numbers and measurements can still guide you in the right direction when you want to adjust stuff. From measuring the leverage ratio (or leverage curve) I feel quite confident that I should not need a larger air can.

I tend to use most of the travel, without bottoming out hard. However, the rear is a little harsh on small bumps while still nearly too soft on larger bumps, and there I sometimes get a somewhat too strong rebound. Still need to play with pressure and rebound, and if that is not enough I will adjust the shim stack. 

Regarding bob, I do not experience much of that. However, I do use a remote with three steps, and in the most locked position the shock and fork are very firm, even if not completely locked. That's what I use on the flat for going fast or up on smooth hills. In the open position there would be a little bob if I push hard in a high gear on the flat, but on the typical trail you do not notice any of that. Rather it tracks the trail nicely. On technical climbs I typically use the middle position and sometimes also on smooth trail.

And, yeah, I agree, this bike accelerates nicely and feels really fast. I have not yet contested it against my old hard tail on my favorite gravel roads, but on some of the more technical trails it is certainly faster than both the hard tail and my previous full suspension.

charlesrg

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2018, 08:22:24 PM »
I use Linkage Design software. It's a program you can draw bike frames and then analyze the geometry. You can trace a frame, put in specs from a known frame or design one of your own. The link to the site is here:  http://linkagedesign.blogspot.com/
adbl, may I use some of your pictures on the frame wiki ?
http://www.bikebuilderinfo.com/bin/view/FrameList/
I'm trying to put together structured info from forums so it's easier for new builders to find.

adbl

Re: Dengfu M06
« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2018, 01:28:44 PM »
Sure, you can use whatever you need.