Buyer BEWARE: Hongfu bikes

[samroy92]

Edit:

TLDR: Do not buy from Hongfu bikes, ever.

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I'll give the brief version here. I've ordered a few frames from Workswell, Peter @xmcarbonspeed, all with great experiences. I decided to order the popular FM258(FM058/FM158) from Robert @Hongfu bikes. Per his preference I paid through alibaba.com. I ordered the frame around May 25th and expected longer processing due to my custom paint order.

• About 2 weeks later I inquired on the status, and Robert told me the frame was still producing (odd because I assumed they were in stock, according to their aliexpress store)
• I waited 30 more days and inquired again, he told me the frame would be done soon (still no paint?!)
• At this point I ordered a frame from xmcarbonspeed (thanks Peter! super fast shipping)
• Since the frame still wasn't painted I politely asked for a refund (see email paste below)
• Robert denied my refund and said the frame will be shipped anyway (??)
• I asked at least 3 times to issue a refund and started the process on alibaba - also started a dispute with my CC company
• Robert then emailed me and told me if I wanted a refund I would have to absorb mfg and processing costs ()
• Escalated dispute to alibaba and have to upload evidence

Email conversation:

May 25th ordered
June 14th: (me) Hi Robert, how is the frame coming along -- Does it look like it will be shipped soon? : )
June 14th: (Hongfu) don't worry ,the frame is producing ,I wii tell you  when it is finished 
July 17th: (me) Hi Robert, any update on this frame?
July 17th: (Hongfu) Hi Sam, thanks for your inquiry Now everything is going well, probably shipped at the end of the month.
July 17th: (me) Too late to cancel my order ?
July 17th: (Hongfu) the frame is ud raw then ud matt matte finial is paint ，so need sometime.and Will be completed soon
July 17th: (me) Robert, I was under the impression my order was in stock in raw/matte and just needed to be processed + painted. I have considered other options since I have to wait until August. Can we process a refund cancellation?
---started refund process with alibaba---
July 18th: (Hongfu) hi Sam, I am Sorry aboout that and the frame finish is ud matt just need to paint, we try our best  to finish paint in a week ,at end of the month you will get your frame. Can you withdraw Request a refund?please
July 18th: (me) I am sorry Robert but I have decided on other frames because the processing took too long - this is a good cancellation since it’s not painted yet. I am sorry again but we must refund if possible, let me know the best way.
July 18th: (Hongfu) It only takes a few days to complete, it is  painting,I will send it next Tuesday.
July 19th: (Hongfu) Can you cancel your application for a refund and your frame will be senton next Tuesday? If you want a refund, you will need to pay some of the costs in our production process, and there will be losses for both of us.

My opinion:
This is a pretty unprofessional thing to do. I spent $880 on this order expecting it to be shipped within 60 days. When it was not, I asked for a refund - since the frame wasn't painted yet I didn't feel bad about it. Since when do customers absorb manufacturing costs?? This tactic is very petty for a 1 unit order and just wanted everyone here to be aware of a potential headache. I've heard good things about Hongfu, and i've had great experiences with other manufacturers, but this experience has left a very bad taste in my mouth. I think some of you will think i'm being too impatient here but what's wrong with refunding an order before it's shipped, and also before my customization (paint)?

[Littlenublet]

Bumping this visibility... I’ll be sure to keep this in mind as I shop for my next frame. Thanks for the info!

[sclyde2]

Isn't it now common knowledge that hongfu is hopeless with timelines, and pretty much lies about the stock they have?  i even got them to confirm they actually had stock of what i was about to order ("..will ship straight away..."), then i immediately ordered (i.e. paid) after confirmation of stock.... then heard nothing for a week.  when they finally returned my 3rd email, they made something up, like someone else bought the stock they were referring to (like in the very short time between when they said they stock and when i paid - yeah right).  then i waited about a month and a half, which i mentioned in my FM058 build thread.  what i didnt mention in that build thread is how irate i ended up getting, to the point of demanding a refund.  i made sure i paid with paypal, and was gonna put in a dispute if they didn't immediately comply.  that refund demand was the only thing that finally got them moving.  i had a shipping notification (tracking # etc) that day.  what a horrible lot to deal with.

i have had issues with other sellers (like an order from lightbikes a few years back), but not this bad.  i had great service from peter when he was a xmiplay, and more recently had no issues getting some rims from xmcarbonspeed.

i think you'll find a lot of the chinese resellers don't have the stock they claim they have, aren't involved in the manufacturing and have little control over it.  it sure takes an adjustment, getting used to these clowns setting extremely false expectations and straight out lying, and then hopelessly under-delivering on their promises.  if a local business did this, their business would die, quickly.  it is like they don't care about return business, or think these kind of words don't get out on forums like these - and these forums are the kind of places where a lot of westerners find out about these kind of products and vendors.

shouldn't this thread be in the vendor discussion forum?

[samroy92]

shouldn't this thread be in the vendor discussion forum?

Yeah... We can probably move it over there - need mod help. But yeah it is disconcerting how snappy they got at the thought of a refund, alibaba is taking a partial refund approach too. My only recourse for a full refund at this point is my credit card company!

Latest:

7/19 (Alibaba.com -> me):

Thank you for contacting Alibaba. This is Shirley Zhu and I am glad to be at your service.

This email is sent to you regarding your Trade Assurance order. We are sorry to learn the problem, rest assured that we will try our best to help you with it.

After checking, we find the agreed shipment date is 2018-08-15. Thus we cannot ask the seller refund you forcibly. If you decide to cancel the order,is it possible for us to negotiate a partial refund with the seller and then close the order?

Have you ever discussed this issue with the seller, what is their proposal?

Please kindly respond with your reasonable proposal in the dispute detail page within 2 days.

I am looking forward to hearing from you soon.

7/19 (Me -> Alibaba.com):

I don't see how I would not get a full refund, there is nothing special or custom about the product I ordered. As evidenced in the email chain I have already attached. I will not settle for anything but a full refund. I am asking for a full refund -before- the item was customized, and -before- the item was shipped. There is no costs as a consumer that I should bear. Please kindly let me know if this is the right area to respond - I was not able to reply to the secure notification email.

7/20 (Hongfu -> me) [randomely they reply'd to my thread with some marketing ?? wth?]

hi friend,
how are you recently?
have you finished your bike building?
if you have any question,we can have a talk
we have  promotions about disc frame       fm079-f  original price:$510    now:$460
fm169     original price:$799    now:$500
fm109       original price:$1260    now:$800
 
are you stil hesitate?( the price only Deadline end of July)


Lol this is so jacked up!

[thesmokingman]

I have a bad experience at Shenzen First too on alibabba. Ordered a 26er small for my kid and they sent a 27.5 medium. Not only that the frame was jacked up. I noticed right away when they sent pics at my request to see said frame before it shipped. I didn't believe them and for good reason. I noticed immediately that the frame was jacked up, broken rocker and a dent on the headtube. The jackasses sent the broken frame anyways. They then ignored my emails playing stupid. I called up Chase and they took care of it. Then Shenzen had the audacity to ask for the broken frame back. I laughed at them as I threw it in the trash.

[samroy92]

Latest email correspondence:

7/20 (Hongfu): Can you revoke the evidence against us? So we will return the money to you.
7/20 (Me): Robert, no problem I will revoke the evidence - but can you credit the money back first? Upon receipt I will cancel the refund request - does that sounds good?
7/20 (Hongfu): You cancel it first, then return it to you.

What should I do?? Help.

[thesmokingman]

Latest email correspondence:

7/20 (Hongfu): Can you revoke the evidence against us? So we will return the money to you.
7/20 (Me): Robert, no problem I will revoke the evidence - but can you credit the money back first? Upon receipt I will cancel the refund request - does that sounds good?
7/20 (Hongfu): You cancel it first, then return it to you.

What should I do?? Help.

Did you pay with a credit card? If yes, call them up and let them know what happened.

[samroy92]

Latest email correspondence:

7/20 (Hongfu): Can you revoke the evidence against us? So we will return the money to you.
7/20 (Me): Robert, no problem I will revoke the evidence - but can you credit the money back first? Upon receipt I will cancel the refund request - does that sounds good?
7/20 (Hongfu): You cancel it first, then return it to you.

What should I do?? Help.

Did you pay with a credit card? If yes, call them up and let them know what happened.

Yeah, got in touch with the CC company today about my dispute and explained the situation. They said they would credit me back immediately. They also said the merchant still reserves the right to counter. We'll see what happens.

[thesmokingman]

^^Nice. You are probably all set now. There's nothing the vendor can say to get your money now unless they can prove you have in your possession said frame.

[samroy92]

Latest correspondence:

7/25/18 (Hongfu): how  are you recently? Is there, only if you cancel the dispute and click to agree to negotiate, I will refund the money I paid before
7/27/18 (Alibaba.com): This email is sent to you regarding your Trade Assurance order 92269996205205. We contacted the seller and they agreed to refund you 710USD to cancel the order, because they had already prepared the goods as per your request in the contract. They will upload product picture in the dispute detail page.

Please kindly reflect the mutual agreement on the refund amount within 2 days.

However I haven't replied to anything because I am assuming my credit card is taking care of it. I might reply to Alibaba.com and just double down on my demand for a full refund. I paid $880 for the order, they are asking for $170 USD back for their processing and production costs. I am guessing thats probably the entire materials cost - these guys SUCK.

[RS VR6]

Glad to see that you'll be getting your money back. Maybe HF will take their customers more seriously from now on.

[thesmokingman]

Latest correspondence:

7/25/18 (Hongfu): how  are you recently? Is there, only if you cancel the dispute and click to agree to negotiate, I will refund the money I paid before
7/27/18 (Alibaba.com): This email is sent to you regarding your Trade Assurance order 92269996205205. We contacted the seller and they agreed to refund you 710USD to cancel the order, because they had already prepared the goods as per your request in the contract. They will upload product picture in the dispute detail page.

Please kindly reflect the mutual agreement on the refund amount within 2 days.

However I haven't replied to anything because I am assuming my credit card is taking care of it. I might reply to Alibaba.com and just double down on my demand for a full refund. I paid $880 for the order, they are asking for $170 USD back for their processing and production costs. I am guessing thats probably the entire materials cost - these guys SUCK.

Lmao, they want 170 just for their time. They are acting like ordering a frame is similar to commissioning artwork, ridiculous. This is partly why I am souring from Chiner frames.

[adbl]

Been following this thread for a little bit and have a few thoughts:

1) It does take a bit of time to understand what is going on with these Chiner frames.
2) Yes, even though most all have photos of their "factory" on their sites, most are just sellers and do not produce the frames. Understand that!
3) Most frames are not kept in stock, they are made to order. No one wants to stock inventory. If they were in stock it should only take 1-2 days before shipping (other than paint) If it takes a few weeks for them to "ship" your frame then it wasn't built to begin with.
4) It seems as though in this case they are trying to recover $170.00 for the build cost of the frame that was started even though the order was canceled. I'm not saying who is right or who is wrong in this situation but it's understandable as to why they want to keep $170.00
4) If someone is thinking about a Chiner frame please do not "need" it in a certain time frame. It's going to take a while for it to finally show up at your door. Just know that up front.
5) For any of the Chiner sellers reading this, please be open to honest and timely communication. It will help from receiving negative feedback from buyers. After all people WILL talk 

[lRaphl]

Just a few advices for everyone buying a frame from chinese sellers.

-Never pay the full price until they are ready to ship. Give an account of around 10% first.
-Ask for pictures before full payment.
-If you see something wrong on the picture, ask them to correct the problem and send you new pictures before full payment.


Remember, what they want is your money so they will be easier to deal with as long as they don't get all what you own them!

[samroy92]

Just a few advices for everyone buying a frame from chinese sellers.

-Never pay the full price until they are ready to ship. Give an account of around 10% first.
-Ask for pictures before full payment.
-If you see something wrong on the picture, ask them to correct the problem and send you new pictures before full payment.


Remember, what they want is your money so they will be easier to deal with as long as they don't get all what you own them!

Yeah this is good advice, makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't think they would produce the frame before payment but it's definitely something I will try in the future. I have to wait a couple months for the credit card company to finalize the dispute, its all up in the air for a couple billings cycles.

Hongfu ended up painting the frame anyway, using pictures to prove they produced my frame for evidence in their dispute. However when I asked for a refund the frame wasn't painted, and they sent me a picture of the raw frame as well. Super scummy!