Author Topic: IP-057 Hardtail 29er vs IP-036 Full Suspension 29er - Head to Head Review  (Read 12620 times)

Carbon_Dude

Since I have both bikes, I thought I'd start up a thread comparing the two bikes.  I will include component lists, costs, and weight.




First up, IP-057 Hardtail, weight as built 19.5 lbs (8.85kg):


Specs:


Riding Impressions:
The IP-057 is a great bike, with my setup I've created a very comfortable riding position with the WTB saddle and riser bars.  I built this hardtail because I wanted a 29er and I wanted something simple.  Last April when I put this bike together, the IP057 frame was still new and I needed to wait approx 30 days for delivery.  I'm glad I did.  The carbon does a really good job of damping small vibrations.  It just doesn't beat me up like an Aluminum frame bike does.  Even though you don't feel any flex with this frame, the carbon will give somewhat to help soak up small bumps.

My favorite part of riding this bike is the way it climbs, so efficiently that you just feel as though you are using 30% less energy to make it up a long climb, or you can get up the hill that much faster if I put in the same effort as I did on one of my old bikes.  The bike is also good downhill, maintaining good control over rough sections. 

So, to sum it up, the IP-057 is a comfortable, light, and efficient ride.


Next up, IP-036 Full Suspension, weight as built 24 lbs (10.9kg)


Specs:


Riding Impressions:
When I built my IP-057 last year I had no plans of building a carbon FS 29er but here I am with two bikes now.  One of the reasons I built this bike was that I liked the FS on the 26" Epic that I had, but the bike just felt too small after riding a 29er.  The Epic was a 2004 but I had put in many upgrades.  I made the decision to sell the Epic and my Trek 69er to help fund a new Carbon FS 29er.  Even after building the IP-057, I had not totally made up my mind to build another Chiner.  I did lots of demo rides from Intense, Giant, Scott, and Specialized.  All the big brands have their strong points but their main weak point was price.  I just couldn't make myself pay 2X for a bike with lesser components.  I was also lucky enough to test ride a locally branded IP-036 at a nearby MTB race.  The bike felt good, certainly good enough for half the price.

So in February I decided to start building a IP-036.  I knew I wanted to go again with XT brakes and an XX1 drivetrain.  However, I needed to choose wheels, fork, and a rear shock.  I found deals on a Fox CTD fork and Fox CTD rear shock, both with remote lockouts.  When I rode the Scott Spark 920 it had dual lockouts and I thought, hey might as well do that setup.

Today I took the IP-036 on it's third ride.  It takes at least a couple rides to get a good feel for a new bike and make any adjustments needed to get everything just right.  After this ride, I can say for sure that I am glad I now have a FS bike to go along with my hardtail.

The great thing about a FS 29er is that it makes every root, rock and bump feel much smaller.  The suspension does a really good job of soaking up the rough trail and giving the rider a much more comfortable ride.  Being FS, the bike is also very fast and controllable downhill.  I hit a higher speed this ride than I usually do on the same downhill on my IP-057 with less effort.  I can probably eek out another 2-3 mph top speed on the IP-036.  For this build, I went with a 90mm stem and flat bars, this gives the IP-036 a different feel, a 20mm shorter stem is making the bike feel smaller even though the wheelbase is longer.

If I were to go on an all day ride I would take the IP-036 for its comfort and the ability for it to soak up the trail, if I wanted to go on a short ride and just run a 1-2 hr long sprint, I'd chose the IP-057 for it's great climbing ability.
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 05:24:45 PM by Carbon_Dude »


2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Rigid_Bloke

This is highly relevant to my interests.

Currently on aluminum 26er hardtail! So, of course, anything will be a huge upgrade. Can't lie.. I REALLY want that 036, but I genuinely don't think I'll need it with the trails that I ride and the carbon and the 29 inch wheels.. Still unsure..  but I've def decided against a fat bike for now.

Either way, I'll certainly be following this thread. Just having the pics alone is enough to keep me interested. Between this and the 057 build thread.. got some potentially great threads growing here. A lot of people are asking questions about these bikes, these could be valuable resources.

Carbon_Dude

First post updated.
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Rigid_Bloke

...(which fork you like better is something I'll request you speak to)...

I'd also be interested to hear which fork you prefer and why.

Carbon_Dude

I prefer the Rockshox Reba Dual Air over the Fox CTD on the IP-057 and here's why:

1) After 600 mi, the fork does not seem to need to be rebuilt yet.  Although, I have purchased a rebuild kit from Pricepoint.
2) I don't care for the fact that the Fox fork usually has a think oil film on the stanchion, the Rockshox stays dry.  So I like the way Rockshox designs their seals.
3) They both do the job, can't really say one fork does a better job of soaking up the bumps over the other, they both function well.
4) The Rockshox cost is generally lower than the Fox.
5) The Fox has one advantage with having a partial lockout in their CTD system, which is why I chose to go with a remote lever so I could take advantage of this feature.  I never bother with adjusting anything on the Rockshock when out on the trail.
6) I think the Rockshox fork is a bit lighter.

If I had it to do again, and didn't care about the lockouts, t would have gone with RockShox for the fork and rear shock, but at the time I ordered my parts, I picked up the  Fox Fork w/remote for $400 off eBay so then I decided to also go with the Fox rear shock with remote so I could do the dual lockout.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2014, 06:59:05 AM by Carbon_Dude »
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Carbon_Dude

Just got back from a 12mi after work ride on the IP-057 hardtail.  The previous three rides have been on the IP-036 and all I can say is WOW, that suspension on the IP-036 really does a great job in smoothing out the trail.  It just seemed like I was feeling every rock and root, and they felt bigger than before.  On the flip side, the IP-057 is so fast and efficient, climbs great, feels solid.  I caught up with a couple other guys and and hung with them for a while.  We chatted about bike a bit, I'm always happy to spread the word and tell others about my Chiner.

If anyone want to see a video of a typical trail in my area, here is one uploaded a few years ago from Chicopee Woods which has about 24 mi of trails.  The trails are only 15 min from my house :) :) :).

http://gainesvillesorba.org/pictures/chicopee/ChicopeeRevised.mov

The video is a bit long, there is some good action around about the 8:00 mark.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 08:47:56 PM by Carbon_Dude »
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Rigid_Bloke

Lucky to have that in your back yard!

Great comparison thread. Gotta be honest, I never could understand why someone would need multiple bikes before but now I could totally understand how having a full suss and a hardtail would be about right. They really are different beasts.. there is something about the efficient power transfer of a hardtail that I just love, and always have. Rode a new Rip9 last week and it was a blast! But I still wouldn't give up my hardtail for it.

These chiners make it possible to own two very high end bikes for a reasonable "investment' as you have obviously realized and taken advantage of. Nice job.

Couple of questions:

How much travel is in the rear end of the full suss?

The obligatory question - If you could only have one?
I'm certain your answer will be the full squish, but perhaps not. 

Sitar_Ned

Damn it. This thread is going to cost me a lot of money.

Watched that vid.. Felt like I was basically out on the trails here in Arkansas. Perhaps yours are a bit more technical than the ones I ride though.

Looking at your pics again... It's kinda surprising that the 057 still climbs better bc it looks to be set up with a far less racy rider position, as far as seat and bar heights.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 09:24:47 AM by Sitar_Ned »

Carbon_Dude

For me, I suspect the IP-057  feels like climbs better because the frame size fits me well, I have a set of riser bars which may allow my to be a bit less bent over when standing up, and the bike is about 4 lbs lighter than my IP-036.
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Carbon_Dude

Lucky to have that in your back yard!

Great comparison thread. Gotta be honest, I never could understand why someone would need multiple bikes before but now I could totally understand how having a full suss and a hardtail would be about right. They really are different beasts.. there is something about the efficient power transfer of a hardtail that I just love, and always have. Rode a new Rip9 last week and it was a blast! But I still wouldn't give up my hardtail for it.

These chiners make it possible to own two very high end bikes for a reasonable "investment' as you have obviously realized and taken advantage of. Nice job.

Couple of questions:

How much travel is in the rear end of the full suss?

The obligatory question - If you could only have one?
I'm certain your answer will be the full squish, but perhaps not.

The IP-036 is supposed to have 110mm of travel, although I have not measured it.

If I only had one, I would need to chose between the lower cost, lower maintenance, lighter hardtail or the more expensive, higher maintenance, smoother riding FS.  Hmmm, that is a tough choice. 

It would depend on what trails you ride, both bikes work well on the trails I ride.  Also, I have not ridden the IP-036 enough to offer up a completely fair judgement.  However, I suspect I'd  go with the FS because it is potentially a better all around bike, and with the lock outs, it's almost as efficient as the hard tail when pedaling.  I just haven't had enough seat time on the new bike to say positively though.
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Carbon_Dude

Swapped wheels today.

I like the looks of the white DT Swiss wheels on the FS 29er.  Makes it look more like a name brand bike to me.


Here is the IP-057 with the carbon wheels.  Make is look more badass :).


I also swapped the XX1 cassette on the rear wheels to keep the drivetrains together, always a good idea not to mix new and old components.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 02:47:03 PM by Carbon_Dude »
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

manmythlegend

Nice swap , they both look great but the swap improves both visually. Keep a quarter nearby at all times so you can flip it to decide which to ride.



     

Carbon_Dude

Nice swap , they both look great but the swap improves both visually. Keep a quarter nearby at all times so you can flip it to decide which to ride.

Thanks.  I guess it depends on my mood as to which bike I take out, assuming I'm not need to fix or maintain one of them.  I look at it as having a spare so I'm never down for lack of a bike to ride.
2019 Stumpjumper Expert 29/27.5+
2017 Santa Cruz Stigmata
2017 Trek Stache 9.8 (29+)
2016 Specialized Stumpjumper FSR Carbon Comp 6Fattie (27.5+) (Sold)
2016 Trek Stache 9 (29+) w/upgrades (Sold)
2014 -036 Full Suspension Chiner (Sold)
2013 -057 Hardtail Carbon Chiner (Sold)
Atlanta, GA

Polo7

Hello CD,

I think I will be building an 036 in some months' time. I understand this bike feels pretty much like a Scott Spark 900. I'm the guy who wants to swap components off my Scott Genius to this Chinese carbon frame. I want to thank you for your comprehensive reply to my question in this forum before.

I want to copy your build with some minor mods. Assuming I can use my FOX 32 Float Evolution CTDAir fork (2014 Scott Genius 930)

What do you recommend for back shock? 100 - 120?
My fork is 130mm. Can this fork be made to have 100 - 120mm of travel?
Would a 130 fork feel weird with a 100 back shock?

I want to basically achieve a Scott Spark 900 build here. I want the remote lock on my handlebar, the whole setup...

Spark 900 has Front 100mm, Rear 100 - 70 - Climb of travel. I want between 100 - 120.

What do you recommend? I'm not sure how much fork travel your 036 has at the moment.

RS VR6

19.5 is a pretty good weight. You're almost 2lbs lighter than me. Lol...I'm trying to figure out where the extra weight on my bike is hiding.