Wrong wheel set delivered

[MTB2223]

I ordered a wheel set at a Chinese vendor (which one is not important for now):
- Carbon UD matte 30mm hookless wheel set
- with red Novatec hubs
- with red nipples
- with black spokes

It was delivered in no time (8 working days). Very quick. But I was an vacation.

But the vendor made a mistake and sent my the wheel set with black hubs and black nipples.

After research of months, I decided to build a black chiner bike with red accents.
Now the last part is in and I wanted to start building, I'm very disappointing with these wheel set. It doesn't fit my imagination of how my bike would look the looks of the bike. It looks a small issue, different colors, but for me it's big.

In this case, what should the vendor do to correct his mistake? What is reasonable?

[MTNRCKT]

Well considering this is the vendor review section, I think which vendor it is, is actually a very important piece of information.

The vendor should absolutely send you the wheels you ordered and pay to have the wrong ones shipped back. That is what any reputable real company would do, and the standards should be no different.

[Izzy]

Well considering this is the vendor review section, I think which vendor it is, is actually a very important piece of information.

The vendor should absolutely send you the wheels you ordered and pay to have the wrong ones shipped back. That is what any reputable real company would do, and the standards should be no different.

Agreed on both accounts.

As long as they do the right thing, it won't hurt the vendors reputation, but actually help it. All companies make mistakes, it's how they handle those mistakes when they arise is what is important.

[MTB2223]

Well considering this is the vendor review section, I think which vendor it is, is actually a very important piece of information.

Do you have different answers when it's vendor A or vender B ? I guess ... I hope not.
For now it's not important.

The vendor is trying to cooperate, but the options he gives, are options that cost him nothing.

The first option he gave me:
A] Send me new red hubs and new red nipples for 135 USD. I guess the 135 USD is shipping (90 USD) and paypal costs (4%) and the price for the hubs (40 USD?).
So, this option cost me 135 USD and the costs to rebuild the wheelset. I ask a LBS and they told me it took for them 2 hours to rebuild, for a price of 150 EUR (204 USD).
The vendor told me it costs him 15 USD in China to build a wheelset.

For me, this is an expensive option. And for the vender it costs nothing. In my eyes it means I've to solve his mistake.

The second option he gave was:
B] Buy a new wheelset from him, with 45 USD discount. And trying to sell the current one.
So, I need to pay again to solve his mistake and hoping I can sell the current wheelset for a good price.

Again, he is laying the problem at my side. It cost him nothing (only a discount).

So, I gave him two other options:
C] I send back the wheelset, he pays my costs like shipping costs and customer service costs. And send me, free of charge, a new wheelset.
His answer about this it costs him 120 USD customer service in China. So it will cost him 120 USD (his customer service), 90 USD (my shipping), 72 USD (my customer service), 90 USD (his shipping_. Total 372 USD.
I don't care, it his problem, he didn't reread our email with the order because he was to busy, thats what he said: "Sorry Johan, Was busy at that time, maybe I did not review our email record again when you place your order Maybe you can sell the black hubs to others who want them, OK ? Anyway I will offer better price for your future order"

D] give me a reasonable refund to buy new hubs and to rebuild my wheelset.
His answer was he could give at maximum 90 USD refund. But because he give me 35 USD discount on the wheelset he want to refund 55 USD.
Yeah right!!

Bottom line: there is a huge difference between option C (which one is the correct one) and option D (it looks like it is his max) and the other options.

Option A is not discussable. Option B maybe.

Don't know what to do. He's a good vendor. Good pre-sales, good products, trying to have a good after-sales (but for me not yet). But I think we wont come together.

[MTNRCKT]

Do you have different answers when it's vendor A or vender B ? I guess ... I hope not.

For now it's not important, not yet.

Well no, I'd have the same answers regardless of who the vendor is. I was only pointing out that knowing who the vendor is and seeing how they respond to problems is valuable insight for other Chinertown members/lurkers.

That said, I respect that your're trying to give the vendor a chance to make it right before saying who it is. That's the right way to go about things imo. Like I said, was just pointing out that is the type of information people are wanting to hear about.

Hope you get it resolved. Personally, I wouldn't take option A or B.

Just to be clear, the mistake was 100% the fault of the vendor, correct? They're not disputing that?

[Patrick C.]

If you spelled out the options you wanted, it should be his responsibility to send you the wheelset you ordered at no additional cost to you.  You are already out the time and frustration to solve the problem.  Sure it will cost him, but it is his screw up. 

I agree it is helpful for the group to know which vendor it is so we know what to expect.  With that said, I would probably also wait until the problem was resolved before naming the vendor, so they don't think you are slamming them in a public forum and refuse to do anything. 

[MTB2223]

Well no, I'd have the same answers regardless of who the vendor is. I was only pointing out that knowing who the vendor is and seeing how they respond to problems is valuable insight for other Chinertown members/lurkers.

I understand. But there is maybe more, more than we know and why they (chinese vendors) act like this.

That said, I respect that your're trying to give the vendor a chance to make it right before saying who it is. That's the right way to go about things imo. Like I said, was just pointing out that is the type of information people are wanting to hear about.

I don't have the intention to bring this vendor in discredit. And if we come to a solution we both agree, maybe I won't mention his name here. Maybe the vendor thinks I'll put presure on him with this topic, but that's not why I started this topic. I only started this topic to know what to do and what I should expect.

Hope you get it resolved. Personally, I wouldn't take option A or B.

So do I. Option C is the best for me, but the worst for the vendor.

Just to be clear, the mistake was 100% the fault of the vendor, correct? They're not disputing that?

Yes, 100%. That's the benefit doing business by email, all in the email. And he admitted he was wrong.

If you spelled out the options you wanted, it should be his responsibility to send you the wheelset you ordered at no additional cost to you.  You are already out the time and frustration to solve the problem.  Sure it will cost him, but it is his screw up. 

He didn't screw up by purpose, faults are human.

I agree it is helpful for the group to know which vendor it is so we know what to expect.  With that said, I would probably also wait until the problem was resolved before naming the vendor, so they don't think you are slamming them in a public forum and refuse to do anything.

Maybe I won't mention his name here. That's not the purpose of this topic. I know I placed this topic in the "Vendor Discussion & Reviews", it's a discussion about what to do what to expect of a (random?) vendor in this case.

[Vipassana]

I think the this is going to highlight the biggest difference/downfall to ordering direct from China.  These parts are CHEAP, at least relative to the name brand companies.  The Chinese companies selling these parts are operating at very thin profit margins.  Profit margins are eroded by things like warranty and customer returns.  When you are barely making a profit to start, you are much less willing to do things which might decrease the meager profit you make.  On top of that, shipping from China is very expensive and as a result, returning a product is a high loss venture.

I completely understand your situation and your frustration.  I am sorry it happened to you.  But I completely understand why the vendor does not want to ship out another set of wheels for free.  I also understand why they do not want to pay for return shipping.  I think the only reasonable solution is a refund of an agreed amount of money to offset the value of red versus black color to you.

At the end of the day, nothing is defective.  The item is the one you ordered minus a cosmetic discrepancy.  It's a bummer for sure.  I think we all need to take a step back and realize that this is the reality of ordering China direct.  Your 50-75% savings over the name brand companies comes are a more hidden cost, and this is it.  I'm certain if this were an ENVE or Easton set of wheels, a new set would be on it's way to you within days.  But you'd also pay $2000 for the set.  Here you are paying $500. 

If we all start demanding the (overly generous at times) customer service that we have come to expect from the big companies, prices will increase.  They have to.

I always like when I tell people about my Chinese carbon frame and they say something like "Well, I'm a Specialized man for life. I broke my frame once in a crash and they sent me a new one for free!" Well, no, they didn't send it for free.  You just paid up front for a replacement.  Almost like an insurance policy.  And SpecialEd can afford to do that because of the profit margins.  The direct from China sellers probably cannot.


And on a more environmentally conscious level, do you feel right about sending wheels back and having another set sent to you, with all the fuel and energy consumed, for something like nipple color.   

[Vipassana]

I also think you are right to keep the vendor unnamed until a resolution is reached or the vendor becomes unresponsive.  Let them attempt to make it right before unleashing the scorn of the internet on them.   

[MTB2223]

I think the this is going to highlight the biggest difference/downfall to ordering direct from China.  These parts are CHEAP, at least relative to the name brand companies.  The Chinese companies selling these parts are operating at very thin profit margins.  Profit margins are eroded by things like warranty and customer returns.  When you are barely making a profit to start, you are much less willing to do things which might decrease the meager profit you make.  On top of that, shipping from China is very expensive and as a result, returning a product is a high loss venture.

Yes, I'm aware of this. And the vendor told me what his profit was on wheels ( and no, I won't tell you ).

I completely understand your situation and your frustration.  I am sorry it happened to you.  But I completely understand why the vendor does not want to ship out another set of wheels for free.  I also understand why they do not want to pay for return shipping.  I think the only reasonable solution is a refund of an agreed amount of money to offset the value of red versus black color to you.

I'm also understanding this. It's not only to offset the value of red versus black, but also the parts with red accents on my bike I've to replace. But I offered him a solution which is good for us both, I think. "Send me a new wheelset half the price". In that case he have some loss, less than reshipping a new wheelset for free and receiving the current one, but more than he want to refund me. And for me, I have to pay again money (a lot more than what he will loss) to get what I ordered, but have an extra (spare) wheelset. I think we are gonna be both happy.

At the end of the day, nothing is defective.  The item is the one you ordered minus a cosmetic discrepancy.  It's a bummer for sure.  I think we all need to take a step back and realize that this is the reality of ordering China direct.  Your 50-75% savings over the name brand companies comes are a more hidden cost, and this is it.  I'm certain if this were an ENVE or Easton set of wheels, a new set would be on it's way to you within days.  But you'd also pay $2000 for the set.  Here you are paying $500. 

If we all start demanding the (overly generous at times) customer service that we have come to expect from the big companies, prices will increase.  They have to.

Agree, it's a cosmetic failure in this case. But I'm working more than a year to the moment to build te bike I want. And it goes wrong on the last part. I'm really not happy with it.

And on a more environmentally conscious level, do you feel right about sending wheels back and having another set sent to you, with all the fuel and energy consumed, for something like nipple color.   

Hihi, didn't thought about this, did you, when ordering your chinese parts?. If I did, I ordered my stuff here in the Netherlands.

[brmeyer135]

And on a more environmentally conscious level, do you feel right about sending wheels back and having another set sent to you, with all the fuel and energy consumed, for something like nipple color.

That is a meaningless statement..in that, nobody is making a special trip for these 2 parts.  The plane is flying, the truck is driving with multiple other packages already.

[Vipassana]

That is a meaningless statement..in that, nobody is making a special trip for these 2 parts.  The plane is flying, the truck is driving with multiple other packages already.

Ease off, dude.  It was more of a joke, hence the emoticon with it's tongue out.

That said, no one is making a special trip.  Except for the truck delivering it to his house.  And the truck picking up from the vendor.  And the fact that is package displaces volume on transport vehicles that would otherwise be occupied by another package so in the end additional capacity in the form of additional vehicles or trips is required.  More fuel is required due to additional mass, however infinitesimally small.

But again, it was a joke.  Meant to be funny.  I was amused at the thought of sending a set of wheels to the other side of the globe, only to find the color was off and sending them all the way back, only to send a second set right back.  It's actually pretty awesome that such a feat can take place for such a small price and amount of effort.

[MTB2223]

Okay, we found a solution we both are happy with. It's not the half-price construction, but good enough for both of us.

I asked the vendor if it's okay to mention his name, but no response on that. For me that's a no and I respect that. He knows the existence of this topic.

Next time, I'm doing business with him again. That's for sure.

[Oolak]

Glad you've come to a mutually beneficial agreement. I think vipassana made some good points in that if we're going to expect to keep getting these great prices without them rising too much... We've got to accept that things like this are going to happen, and the vendor isn't always going to want to swallow the loss entirely on their end and understandably so.

[Carbon_Dude]

After this somewhat long discussion, I'm looking forward to hearing what the final resolution ended up being.