Thömus / Thoemus Lightrider - is this a catalog frame?

[Boybiskit]

I am intrigued by this bike after seeing it in XC World Cups: https://thoemus.ch/bikes/lightrider-wc-2020/

It looks like it could so easily be a catalog frame. Does anyone know? Who makes it?

[FullCarbonAlchemist]

Very similar to the Carbonda FM936 (also used by NS Bikes and several other brands), but the shape of the flex stays and a couple of front frame details are different.

[Silverado123]

The carbon and materials are way different than what these $800 frames use. Plus extra care and qc go into the $4000 frames the pros use. But it's pretty cool we can ride bikes that are fairly similar to what the big dogs use

[zilcho]

The carbon and materials are way different than what these $800 frames use. Plus extra care and qc go into the $4000 frames the pros use. But it's pretty cool we can ride bikes that are fairly similar to what the big dogs use

Can you back up these claims with any real evidence? This is the same nonsense people have been saying for years but has never been validated. There are plenty of big name brands with sponsored riders that have worse QC while claiming some special layup or engineering going into their frames.

Carbonda even released a statement contradicting brands like Thesis that say they work with the factories to make their version of the open mold special.
http://www.carbonda.com/news/139.html

[Boybiskit]

Very similar to the Carbonda FM936 (also used by NS Bikes and several other brands), but the shape of the flex stays and a couple of front frame details are different.

The FM936 looks like a great frame, which is why I was kind of interested in the Thoemus and finding out if it is available elsewhere. To me, the new-breed of xc bikes is the most exciting part of mtb development at the moment. I have half an eye on one of these bikes eventually replacing my Airwolf.

I know that all manufacturers put something special together for their pro riders (Trinx being a great example), but I just don't buy the idea that small western brands like Quest, Evolve and NS Bikes have someone sat at the end of the production line checking every frame. They trust their suppliers - thanks for the Carbonda link!

[StiffWeenies]

Can you back up these claims with any real evidence? This is the same nonsense people have been saying for years but has never been validated. There are plenty of big name brands with sponsored riders that have worse QC while claiming some special layup or engineering going into their frames.

Carbonda even released a statement contradicting brands like Thesis that say they work with the factories to make their version of the open mold special.
http://www.carbonda.com/news/139.html

Not MTB, but the CFR 1056 is known to be privately offered in a lighter layup from standard

[zilcho]

Not MTB, but the CFR 1056 is known to be privately offered in a lighter layup from standard

I'm not convinced. Did your research lead to anything from Carbonda or someone else? The article says 880g is for a size 46 frame (roughly a 53cm), and Carbonda lists the 49 (54.6cm) as 1050g +/- 50g. Assuming its on the low side, 880g for the smaller size is well within expected range, not a super light version.

[RDY]

Not MTB, but the CFR 1056 is known to be privately offered in a lighter layup from standard

Yeah, but that's just a standard lighter layup, the likes of which they publicly offer for their XC Full Suspension frames.  It's not some super special sauce, as @Silverado is implying, or that the client brand worked on and specified themselves; most of them don't even employ or contract engineers or industrial designers.  It's very much a standard option for FlyBike (and some others) to offer an option of slightly more HM cf (and some minor modifications to the mold if they meet MOQs for it).

I'm not convinced. Did your research lead to anything from Carbonda or someone else? The article says 880g is for a size 46 frame (roughly a 53cm), and Carbonda lists the 49 (54.6cm) as 1050g +/- 50g. Assuming its on the low side, 880g for the smaller size is well within expected range, not a super light version.

Per above.

[Silverado123]

Can you back up these claims with any real evidence? This is the same nonsense people have been saying for years but has never been validated. There are plenty of big name brands with sponsored riders that have worse QC while claiming some special layup or engineering going into their frames.

Carbonda even released a statement contradicting brands like Thesis that say they work with the factories to make their version of the open mold special.
http://www.carbonda.com/news/139.html

Do you really think that pro, world cup riders ride $800 frames? Trek, Scott, Yeti, Santa Cruz, Giant and countless others have different levels of carbon for different price points. My Lexon Riot is not the same as the Trinx Eva is riding. Perhaps same the factory, the mold and maybe even the same people making the frame but the materials, quality, fit and finish are way different.

[ftajiri]

Thomus lightrider is the same Berria mako ...

[Silverado123]

Sure looks like it!

[RDY]

Do you really think that pro, world cup riders ride $800 frames? Trek, Scott, Yeti, Santa Cruz, Giant and countless others have different levels of carbon for different price points. My Lexon Riot is not the same as the Trinx Eva is riding. Perhaps same the factory, the mold and maybe even the same people making the frame but the materials, quality, fit and finish are way different.

You've bought into the marketing.  Virtually everything uses a mix of Toray T700, T800 and sometimes T1000 - or equivalent - and very similar molding techniques and resin type.   Even the very cheap Chinese stuff.  And yeah, some of the big factory teams will bin frames after either visually inspecting or x-raying them to go to pro riders.  But 9 times out of 10 they're exactly the same stock stuff even if they are binned.  One big difference for a lot of these catalogue / open mold MTB frames that are raced at pro level is that the stock bearings and bolts will be swapped out.  But then a lot of people on this forum do that too.

[Silverado123]

If that is the case, which l don't believe, that is one huge conspiracy against the cycling community. $800 frames are the same as top end $4000+ frames. My Riot, while ok quality has many low rent aspects about it. Rear brake tabs not deep enough, voids in the carbon, carbon fraying in the headtube, messy paint here and there.
If i had a highend frame l would be pissed if what you say is indeed true. Im not saying these aren't good bikes. As a matter of fact they almost always get high praise when reviewed because the reviewer is so surprised they ride as good as they do.

[Silverado123]

I do see a lot of open mold frames sold by random companies that few have heard of. They seem to be a lot of road and gravel frames and l can see that those are the samething. I struggle with the idea that Mathias Flückiger rides a run of the mill, copycat open mold frame that costs $1000 or less.

[RDY]

If that is the case, which l don't believe, that is one huge conspiracy against the cycling community. $800 frames are the same as top end $4000+ frames. My Riot, while ok quality has many low rent aspects about it. Rear brake tabs not deep enough, voids in the carbon, carbon fraying in the headtube, messy paint here and there.
If i had a highend frame l would be pissed if what you say is indeed true. Im not saying these aren't good bikes. As a matter of fact they almost always get high praise when reviewed because the reviewer is so surprised they ride as good as they do.

Sometimes the workmanship or finishing is a bit better with expensive frames.  Lots are still rife with voids, wrinkles etc, and need brake mounts facing or have problem BBs.

Many of the Lexon frames are sold by other brands for 3-5x the price.  They'll be identical, possibly with a little bit more time spent on finishing.  And Lexon are just a brand, they make nothing.

And yes, essentially the business model is 'scam'.  Your S-works road or gravel frame costs less than $300 ...