Author Topic: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb  (Read 28534 times)

brmeyer135

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2015, 03:56:37 PM »
I swear JohnnyNT - I was just about to post that link also(not here but in components)
That is freaking impressive...but over $2000.00

Arraider

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #61 on: February 03, 2015, 02:57:05 AM »
insane weight, hope to get there some day... loved the bike.

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #62 on: May 17, 2015, 03:44:38 PM »
Update:
750 hard trail miles on the bike. About 200,000 ft climbed.

1. Completed several races on the IP-256SL and very pleased with the performance of the bike
2. Have yet to completely eliminate cable slap
3. A little diappointed with the power of the XTR 9000 brakes. I think poor bleed is part of the issue.
4. Bottle cage inserts loose. Trying a repair with super glue (not optimistic)
5. Rear drop out creaking. Just tried removing from frame and greasing. Hopefully that cures this.
6. Overall durability and quality of the frame is generally good
7. Will likely replace with Niner Air 9 RDO frame later this year.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2015, 03:49:53 PM by frankR »

MTNRCKT

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #63 on: May 17, 2015, 04:41:45 PM »
Thanks for the update. Great build thread!

7. Will likely replace with Niner Air 9 RDO frame later this year.

If you're going to spend the money, that's the one to get. Sweet, sweet frames.

JohnnyNT

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2015, 04:18:40 AM »
You always have OPEN, end of the line: http://www.opencycle.com/hardtail/specs-prices

MTB2223

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2015, 06:02:26 AM »
You always have OPEN, end of the line: http://www.opencycle.com/hardtail/specs-prices
And then you've a circle.

Please take a look at this page: http://www.bikemag.com/gear/first-look-open-cycles-o-1-0/

It looks like the 256 is a clone of a OPEN-frame :)

carbonazza

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #66 on: May 18, 2015, 07:18:42 AM »
7. Will likely replace with Niner Air 9 RDO frame later this year.

Just curious. Why wouldn't you stick with the 256?

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #67 on: May 19, 2015, 10:28:55 AM »
7. Will likely replace with Niner Air 9 RDO frame later this year.

Just curious. Why wouldn't you stick with the 256?

Good question.

My original intent was to ride the IP256SL until the new Niner Air 9 RDO frame became available.

Motivation to go from the 256 to the Niner is I suspect it's a better frame through a better optimized carbon fiber layup: stiffer and compliant where it needs to be. Though I can't say for certain without riding the two frame back to back.

Also, I am generally pleased with the 256SL, but there are some issues:

1. Creaking rear dropout / through axle
2. Loose bottle cage inserts
3. Cable slap
4. User unfriendly internally routed rear brake line

If I can address the above issues I may ride the frame longer, at least until the end of the season.


Vipassana

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2015, 03:30:13 PM »
My thoughts:

1. Creaking rear dropout / through axle
My frame suffered from this as well.  I thought it was the BB30 for the longest time.  Removing the dropouts and greasing them with a waterproof, silicon based grease helped a ton.  Then I grease routinely between the dropouts and the wheel/axle/caps/nut.  Doing both of these made the bike entirely silent.

2. Loose bottle cage inserts
The loose bottle cage mounts is an easy one. The mounts are simply rivnuts.  Get your hands on a rivnut install tool or make one (if you're clever) and tighten them down a but.  Don't over do it.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rivet_nut

3. Cable slap
I've posted a $0.50 fix for this on here.  You can find it in my build thread.  I did this after the first couple of rides and haven't heard a single noise from my cables since.  Super easy and effective.

4. User unfriendly internally routed rear brake line
I'll agree with you here.  That line was a pain to get routed.  But now that it's in, I haven't had an ounce of trouble with it.  And I have no reason to need to remove it at all.  I would think of that as a one-time frustration, not an on-going issue.



The Air 9 RDO is a sweet bike.  I demo rode one and liked it.  But it was really expensive for what it was.  It actually is what caused me to look into Chinese carbon manufacturers.  For $1000 less than the bike I demo rode, I built a lighter, better spec'd bike that has performed flawlessly.

I cannot identify a difference between the two, but I'm sure there are subtle differences and I'm probably just not "good enough".  I think most people can't tell the difference between most carbon frames in a true blind test.  In general, I think a lot of it is hype and marketing surrounding bicycles which keep us in a perpetual upgrade cycle.  I tend to roll my eyes at the discussions on MTBR where guys debate endlessly over 1 degree here or 10mm there.  Just harden up and ride more.  I would think spending 2-4 hours more a week on the bike, actually training, brings far more advantage than any subtle frame/geometry edge. 
« Last Edit: May 19, 2015, 03:43:49 PM by Vipassana »

cmh

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #69 on: May 21, 2015, 08:54:59 PM »
2. Loose bottle cage inserts
The loose bottle cage mounts is an easy one. The mounts are simply rivnuts.  Get your hands on a rivnut install tool or make one (if you're clever) and tighten them down a but.  Don't over do it.

Excellent point - I had the same happen on my Rumblefish, but I just used a dab of a thin superglue and that worked like a champ. Still, I like your approach, and it might be more effective in the long run.

RS VR6

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #70 on: May 22, 2015, 12:25:51 AM »


I cannot identify a difference between the two, but I'm sure there are subtle differences and I'm probably just not "good enough".  I think most people can't tell the difference between most carbon frames in a true blind test.  In general, I think a lot of it is hype and marketing surrounding bicycles which keep us in a perpetual upgrade cycle.  I tend to roll my eyes at the discussions on MTBR where guys debate endlessly over 1 degree here or 10mm there.  Just harden up and ride more.  I would think spending 2-4 hours more a week on the bike, actually training, brings far more advantage than any subtle frame/geometry edge.

^^This...

At times I think the bike industry is running out of ideas. To move forward...they have to keep coming up with "new" things to sell you. With XC bikes its the 69 degree headtube. Guys are thinking that it's some huge change to the way your bike rides. They have to keep coming up with new "standards" to keep the money flowing in. I bet in a few years...the industry will go back to the 71 degree headtube and hype the quick handling.

Now with the 148 standard if you want to swap frames...your cranks and rear wheel (hub) is now not compatible. Bike industry has to keep moving so you keep buying. Last year was Enduro...this year is the fat bike or + bike.

The 650 wheel size is nothing new. Specialized was so against the 650 wheels size a few years back. I bet in their testing they didn't find any significant differences between the 26...but once they saw the cash flowing in to other companies...they changed their minds. Heck, their first 650 frame was actually a 29er Stumpjumper with a spacer under the headtube. I don't think any company benefited more from the 650 than Santa Cruz. They couldn't keep the Bronson in stock when that first came out.

Flexibility is where the benefits of the open mold frames come in (besides the price). You at least can control some of the features of the frame and not how the bike company wants you to have it.

End rant...haha...

Most people buy new stuff just because they can and want to...and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. :)

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #71 on: May 30, 2015, 03:51:02 PM »
Update to my update:

Vipassana,

Thanks for the tip on the rivnuts. I ordered a tool from amazon and m5 inserts. Will try crimping in new rivnuts. Right now I am running only one bottle cage. That's not going to work in a race.

A cure for the frame creaking has remained elusive... I have tried synthetic axle grease and silicone grease. None have worked. My next thing to try is some kind of elastomer. I did fix the creaking BB bearing. See photo below. One bearing was nearly frozen. Not surprising since I found enough dirt in there to host a reasonably sized flower bed.

I have tried several cable slap fixes. They all work for a time but eventually shift around and I end up with slap. A deadened slap, but still a slap.

Last weekend I installed new brake pads, SwissStop Sintered. The Disc E pads worked great until I burned through them. The rear pad was nearly completely gone. I have been riding with very little braking power the past few weeks. The Sintered pads have phenomenal power. I am now loving the XTRs again.

Unfortunately, during that first ride with new pads I had a little crash and that crash somehow pushed the front brake lever all the way forward, ejecting the snap ring out of its groove which holds the piston that applies pressure to the master cylinder. The brakes still worked, the lever just wouldn't return to it relaxed position flipping several inches forward when released. I thought the lever was toast since I couldn't find any repair instructions on the web. After digging into the mechanics of the mechanism the repair was completed rather quickly using a pair of snap ring pliers, after draining the system of fluid. A quick bleed and they were good as new.

I am still on course to buy the Niner AIR 9 RDO, but I am likely to wait for the right deal to come along. The frame retails for $2k. I would like to find a close out or new frame purchased second hand locally. There's a 2015 frame for sale on Craiglist for $1300, I would buy it but unfortunately, it's an XL.

Regarding the alleged conspiracy among bike manufactures to sucker us cyclists out of our hard money through continual revisions to "standards" and geometry, I say, you might have a point, but it's really a myopic allegation, IMO.

No one forces you to pay full retail every year to buy the latest and greatest gear. Great deals can be found buying closeouts on last years gear or prior generation components. If you are resourceful there are great deals to be found on state of the art gear. The reason why bikes have become so good over the past two decade, MtBs in particular, is through the hard efforts of the big name bike manufactures. Effort which requires tremendous capital which must be recuperated. Yes their business models demands they must continuously evolve and innovate. Specialized moto is "Innovate or Die". I think that credo applies to all bike companies. It's a highly competitive market. To stay in business you must push at the margins of technology. And yes sometimes that means changing standards. Consumers vote with their wallets. I refuse to take the cynical view by dismissing it as change for the sake of change.

The reason why relatively inexpensive Chinese frames exist is because of the hard work done by the name brand bike manufactures. I have yet to find any Chinese bike manufacture producing original innovative designs. They are blatant copies of existing bikes. Hence their low cost, since they have little R&D to recoup, and low overhead, and cheap labor, and can skimp on quality control.

Ultimately, I say ride what you want. Build what you want. But don't hate on the name brands because they are the source of the great equipment we get to enjoy, either directly or indirectly.


Photos of mentioned mechanical repairs and racing photos of the 256-SL in action included below.









« Last Edit: May 30, 2015, 03:53:50 PM by frankR »

frankR

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #72 on: June 12, 2015, 10:43:12 PM »
Once I figured out how the Rivnuts work I figured out how to use the tool. The instructions weren't that helpful.

What I discovered was iPlay never set the rivnuts in my frame. You could tell by how deeply recessed into the frame the threads were. These first few mm of the rivnut are designed to collapse as the rivnut is compressed against the plate it is inserted into. After I set the first one the bottle cage insert became rock solid.

There was only enough clearence to set three of the four rivnuts. The bottom one on the seat tube can't be accesses by the tool I bought. There is another way to set rivnut using a screw, nut, and star washer to prevent the rivnut from rotating in the hole. I will get it later.

Astro Pneumatic Tool 1427 Hand Rivet Nut Kit https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004KLVJAA/ref=cm_sw_r_awd_Kt6EvbQ0F0GCH

Edit: It appears what I thought was cable slap was really the loose Rivnuts. Bike is now relatively quiet.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 12:17:51 PM by frankR »

stylesx

Re: IP-256SL XC Racer Build 18.5lb
« Reply #73 on: September 03, 2015, 06:39:34 PM »
Great build !

First off how is the bike holding up? Frame wise,  and second do you by chance have or can share a final break down of cost?  How much did it cost you for this build? I'm sure the biggest discount would be the frame

Thank you