My 256SL build

[cmh]

i guess this is the best way to show my problem, no words needed...

oh man, that doesn't look good.
Are you sure there isn't a problem in the dropouts ?
Otherwise, it's a production failure. I hope you can solve this problem without any costs.

It's now to XMIPlay to show how good their service is ...

Agreed, that's no good at all. Doubt it could be a problem in the dropouts or something like that - if the wheel wasn't set well enough that the disk was shifted that much the tire would very likely be rubbing in the frame.

According to their own site:



That's found on this page

I'd be very interested to hear how it goes for you, since I'm pretty close to making a purchase.

[Arraider]

by now i tried everything, taught of everything, really exasperating, the bike is ready and can't ride it.

I even got a spare set of dropouts, and the wheel is in place, tried 2 rotors, 2 calipers, i tried everything.

to solved i taught of :

-sanding of filling the surface of the mounts but the screw is tilted also so i do not think it will work.

-using some avid cone washers, but that would raise the caliper too much and the pads would only touch a fraction of the rotor and i do not know if it will work either, on top the washers tilted rub the rotor, i would have to be incredibly creative.

-using an adapter and using 180mm rotor (thats the rotor you see on the last picture, mine is a xt 160) but with that angle the higher the screw the worse it gets, tighter angle.

-the best solution was presented by a friend, that with special qbolt glue of some sort you fill the screw hole and create a new one (it's very hard for me to explain this in English). But it's also hard, time consuming, very precise and i have to pay someone to do it, and of course the results are not guaranteed


I talked with Bert at Xmiplay about the return and to get a new one. Waiting for a reply, we have a huge time zone difference. To be fair i guess i would not have to pay for either shipping to or from China. I already paid shipping i did not have to pay as i had to make a new order because they sent the wrong dropouts and made me pay for both shipping costs and the dropout Besides the money i spent already on helicopter tape (already installed) and for mechanic as i needed help with some things, but that is not a problem. Shipping is.

I will tell you guys whats happen.

[Carbon_Dude]

I'd be talking to the vendor about exchanging the frame, that is clear manufacturing defect.  Otherwise you will need to create a shim (basically as you have already done) to get it to work.

XMIplay is usually very good to work with.  They should pay for shipping of the new frame to you as well as return shipping if they want the defective frame back.  Good luck, let us know if the exchange goes smoothly.

[Arraider]

in this case if they assume the problem they have to get the frame back because my customs make me sent the frame back in order to get a new one if it is the case. Otherwise is just a new import and i have to pay VAT again. 

And if i sent it to China it costs more then double the freight charges that they pay to sent from China to my country, and mind you they sent EMS and i'm talking normal shipping 

[Bertzhong]

the supports for the brake caliper are crooked, the inside part is lower than the outside and the caliper gets angle... i did not deserve this...

i put a nylon washer i had just on the inside part of the supports (not on the srew, just on the outside and between the screw and the support), to "uncrooke", or to compensate the "crookness" and it bloody works, but i cannot see a solution for this OMG!

this is the result without any compensation


in the photo attached you can see the caliper crooked and like this there is no way i can ride the bike, the rotor scraches constantly the inside of the caliper, on the top on the outside and on the bottom on the inside.

the supports on the frame for the caliper are tilted for the inside, crooked, they are higher on the ouside then on the inside, when you fasten the screw it all goes weel until you get to the end and it forces the caliper and the face of the support to touch, the caliper starts to tilt to the inside and from there all goes wrong.

Hi, dear Mr Arraider, I am so sorry to heard that bad news, both we want everything is ok, unfortunately, we come upon  this time.....actually, I should tell everybody here, our frames, every one been tested and passed the brake test.  we screwed brake on the frames!!! Surley I do not want  to pass the buck to anybody or anything, but do you mind confirm something?
1. did you use the right tools?
2. did you screw the bolts violently when it is not smoomthly, especially the firt time? because the thread will be broken when you do like that, and never been paired.
I think everyone here know this truth that the IP-256SL is a good frame,  man.  what we can do is how to slove this problem since it happened, isn't it?
So sorry for my words, surley we will try our best to serve for you guys, actually, we are doing now. thanks .
Bert

[Oolak]

No need to apologize for the English Bertz. I'm just glad you're willing to come out in the open and try to address this issue in public forum. Usually, sellers want to handle these matters privately but there is nothing to hide. All of us here know that in manufacturing these things are going to happen with ANYTHING you buy.. What's important is that the seller remain open, honest, and communicate so we can all see that if this happens to us - We'll be taken care of. Hopefully, this can be resolved in a way that's fair for everyone.

Again, thanks for being willing to talk about this openly, and participating in the forum. Makes me feel much more comfortable ordering from you guys.

[Arraider]

Bert i also appreciate the reply.

I know, believe me, that this is a good frame, i read and read and read before buying, but mistakes happen, i can assure you of 2 things, i did not screw wrongly nor do i think honestly that the problem is other than the one i told here. Both screws are at that obvious angle. Even if the angle was opposite i could understand, but the way the angle is it's almost impossible to think it was badly screwed. But i also think that you have every right to be skeptical, i would be in your place.

Now like i told you this is not even your companies 1st mistake, i clearly asked in bold and underlined for a 142 frame, you sent me 135 dropouts, we talked you asked me to support freight charges or buy something else, i bought a lot more stuff, and even so you made me pay for the new dropout and for freight cost and i even had to pay VAT at customs, all things i could avoid. But i did it even if i did not think it was especially fair. You said i was a nice guy remember?

I bought a lot of stuff from Chinese vender's, i can sent to you my ebay account and very good feedback, i do not do this because i want to. I quadrupled checked or more, and not only me, but even so, I'm ready to take any more pictures, do videos, test whatever. When you get the defective frame you can see what i and others saw.

Now i have everything mounted, i will post a picture. I spent money on helicopter tape, you can see for yourself when you receive it, i used the hydraulic brake hose but i do not think it can resist a new 1cm cut, and i will probably have to buy a new one. I spent some money on a mechanic for some assembly and especially to look at this brake problem. I do not have the BB tool.

As you also now ( we talked so much about this and i appreciate all your help) my local customs are something that words can not describe and going back there is like pulling teeth. The last time i made five    70kms round trips with toll and diesel costs on me.

I will have to disassembly the bike and do everything all over. There is no reason for me to not be absolutely sure that there was no other way to solve this, that the problem is unequivocal. Trust me on this. And as you can see i tried everything here, on mtbr, on a local mtb forum, on friends on facebook, and the conclusion was that the problem was just to big for other alternative that do not pose too much problems, reliability, cost and even it could go wrong.

I also am not doing this to get 2 frames as i already explained either i sent this one to you or it's a new import and i have to pay VAT and custom charges again.

This is not my first chinese frame nor the first, 2nd or 3rd time i mount a bike. The last one was a AXMAN 26 frame.

Now all this to say what. Problems happen, mistakes are made, i understand that, i just want now is a fair solution, as fair as possible for both of us. As i mentioned i already payed for a 1st mistake in full, you Bert, assumed 3 usd, i payed for a new dropout in full and freight charges in full, except those 3 usd discount. You can not ask me to support the freight charges to china, i asked at the local post office, it's an insane amount of 82 euros, but like i sad there is also the Machiavelli plot twist that the my country's post office company is Chinese owned. So not even that you can input on me.

This about all i have to say.... this has been a experience where everything went wrong, everything, with customs, with you, with bike24.de (the online store) that messed up also. I'm just so tired that no words can describe. After all this ordeal, mounting everything and you could only notice this particular problem right at the end, and dying so close to the beach and having this insanely nice bike just there and not being able to ride it breaks my heart 

I just hope sincerely that we can get to an agreement and fast, for my part i sent you the frame but i do not think it's fair to make me pay freight charges to or from China this time. Then you can see by yourself and i will not run and be here to discuss if you think it was my fault or a production problem.

Like i proposed the best way to solve this is on a chat, some internet chat. I'm willing. I even woke up at 5 am because of time differences to solve this. We exchange some emails but still no conclusion and all very confusing.

[MTB2223]

Sorry to hear this (again).

I had the same problem. They sent me the wrong wheel set, it was not what I ordered.
They offered me to buy a new set and sell the wrong wheel set on my own. No way I agreed that.

It was not a option for them to let me sent the wheel set back, because of the customs in China, costs 120 USD. And they won't pay me my shipping costs and my second payment to the Dutch customs.

So, after some communication on the email about their fault, costs for them, cost for me, no time to wait again (because my bike trip in Germany),  etc etc, we came to a solution that was fine for both of us. I ordered a new wheel set with enough discount to my satisfaction. So, now I have laying a spare wheel set.

I've learned that the warranty / service in China isn't that great as we have over here.
The profit is low, the cost (shipping, custom, paypal) are high.
So, if you want really good service, the same as at the LBS, don't buy in China, but at your LBS and pay a lot more.

They don't realize that they can have much more business if the give good service in case of warranty or manufacturing faults.

[Arraider]

yes he talked to me about some custom charges of 150 USD, and i did not expected top warranty, but for the love of god i spent an insane amount of money and have not even rode once 

there is always compromises to be made, but i do not have any more money to spent, that's something that it will not happen, or a much, much smaller amount, 82 euros is completely out of the question. I can not do what's impossible for me. And having to buy a new helicopter tape, pay the mechanic for some help, more travel to customs, buy a new brake hose,... those are all costs that i have to endure even without paying nothing else.

i did not twist anyone's arm to sell me nothing, if i must understand their side i ask the same from them. I live in a poor country, with stupid customs also. And for China standards what i already paid could feed a small village. Like i said the 1st time they made a mistake it was all on me, and the amount in euros was pretty huge (shipping + dropout again + custom charges), i compromised like crazy already and i see no compromise on the other side.

Paypal charges they were all on me, i do not know if i has the only one, but with me i paid them, not Xmiplay. Shipping i payed everything also.

Sending me the frame i paid for it's not compromise, it's fair. If he does what's fair, we will lose freight charges both way and the chinese customs i guess. For him it should be easy to repair the frame and sell it again and recover all the money and some.

[MTB2223]

My opinion is: they have to take their lost. As Bert said, they tested every frame and mounted brakes . Lets believe this is true. In that case, this frame should never being sent to you. It slipped through their quality-tests. So, now matter what, they should send you a new frame. And if they want the old frame back, they have to pay you the return-shipping costs. The only cost you may have to pay is the customs in your country. So be it. That's 'fair', I think

So, I hope Bert is reading this and realize that if he solve this in the right and decent way, it's GOOD and 'cheap' publicity for him and his company.
After this, when there is a solution or not, everybody know if his company is reliable and worth it to spend a bit more money for their service and quality.

I hope for a good outcome, for you and also for Bert's company ( good publicity = more business for him ).

[Izzy]

They don't realize that they can have much more business if the give good service in case of warranty of manufacturing faults.

This. So much this.  Especially now that chinertown is up and running and enough people are reading these forums. The chinese sellers are going to have to realize that there is a little more accountability than there was before - they're not used to that, I don't think. If they're smart, the extra accountability will be a good thing for their business because they can turn it into trust.

That said, I think it's important to remember that we are getting these carbon frames for pretty damn cheap - I'm sure profit margins are low. For a smaller operation, like Iplay, taking a loss probably isn't something that's easy to do. Obviously, I'm just speculating here.. point is, there are always two sides to the coin.

Ultimately, it's up to Iplay how they want to strategize and position themselves for the long run, in this market.

[MTNRCKT]

Paypal charges they were all on me, i do not know if i has the only one, but with me i paid them, not Xmiplay. Shipping i payed everything also.

Not just you. That's standard policy on every order.

Sorry to hear about your situation.. hopefully it gets worked out.

[Arraider]

MTB2223

in my case i only have to pay customs in my country if i do not sent them the defective frame.

But of course if Bert says you keep the defective and i send you a new one, my custom charges i'm not gonna demand from Bert. I'm really honest here, i will try and sell the frame to anyone that wants it on the cheap to repair to pay for customs and if i make any extra i can send it back to Bert minous the cost of the dropout+shipping+taxes (only that not the extra stuff i bought, that's totally on me) from the 2nd shipment. I say this here and i will do it.

But also on the honest side i pray i do not have to go to my customs again, i rather pull my teeth with a screw driver 

I just want something fair. At least i think i'm not being unreasonable

[Arraider]

this is all very sad

1) Bert now understands a lot less english than in the beginning

2) Bert did not even propose a remotely fair agreement for the 2nd time. I'm gonna pay for all freigh cost for the 2nd time for the 2nd mistake he made even without riding once on the bike

3) For the 1st mistake i even bought a lot more stuff and 3USD discount. I guess this time i don't even deserve that.

4) if anything else goes wrong i pay 2 frames in just freight costs for Berts little mistakes. I guess i should get 2 frames

3) i guess paypal will sort this out. I guess warranty does not exist 


What gets to me is if i rode it for 2. 3 months and something went wrong i would understand a bit more, but  if i want to ride even once i'm already almost half the frame cost in extra costs just because shit went wrong in Xmiplay.

God dam offer me something, put something in the deal, this shit is ridiculous. I do not wanted to do this but i must go for the Paypal solution. If we keep doing this they don't learn to double check orders or do quality control, i guess it's educational service. And of course he's lying if they had tested the brakes they should have seen the obvious, it's impossible to make the wheel rotate.

Bought so many things from Chinese vendours and never encountered such a bad service. The worst. What a mess...   

I want my frame. And if Xmiplay wants the defective he must pay not me.

[MTB2223]

Just spoke to one of the two owners of Xmiplay, Peter, about this delicate issue.
Maybe there's some miscommunication.
According to Peter the quality of their products and the service is always high priority of Xmiplay.

As it look like, there is really a warranty-issue, but it should be confirmed.
If it's a confirmed warranty issue, Xmiplay will send a new frame WITHOUT any costs.

First Peter wanted to see the frame to see if it's a warranty-issue or just the fault of the customer.
Sending back the frame is expensive, due the cost for shipping, but also due the customs in China. Xmiplay have to pay more than 100 USD to get the frame back.
I suggested to let an independent LBS take a look to the frame because of the brake issue. Depending on the outcome, the case will be a warranty-issue or not.

So Arraider/John The rider, please take contact with a independent LBS and let him make a small report of his findings. After that, contact Peter/Bert. It's really important for them that you're satified. They only want happy customers!