Winspace C5 BB concerns/carbon quality

[Blueberry]

I received this Winspace C5 last week and noticed there is some jenkiness in the bottom bracket area and I am not sure how concerned to be. Does this look like it's worth contacting Winspace about?

[jonathanf2]

If that was a $400 USD frame, I'd be fine with it. For a $1280 USD frame, I'd contact Winspace. 

[Blueberry]

I did end up messaging Winspace yesterday. They replied saying, "According to our engineer, it is normal, does not affect safety performance."

If that's their thought on it, I'm not going to be able to convince them to replace it or anything I feel extra weird about it because I'm building it for a friend, not for myself... on the upside, she's small and has never done more than 700w so at least she's not a ripping 1700w sprints or anything. The situation does leave me feeling a little concerned but I don't feel like I have much choice other than to take Winspace at their word. 

I am planning to use one of the thread-together Wheels Manufacturing BBs so hopefully that reinforces the area more than using a cheap, two-piece shimano bb.

[jonathanf2]

Both my recent frames from AliExpress looked cleaner in the BB area and only one frame was EPS molded. I'd be disappointed if I was spending Winspace money, just to get quality less than AliEx! 

[Blueberry]

I sent Winspace a slightly more strongly worded email saying (paraphrased) "I know its not normal, there's a chunk of carbon that has been ripped out, its under warranty, the BB area is so thin I can flex it by pressing on it with my thumb." Hopefully that gets them to do something. After thinking about it a little more, I really want to try and get them to replace it because it really does seem like disappointing quality that could be an issue. Especially given that it's EPS molded, it should be a lot smoother down there.

[ausmtb8989]

That's horrible for such a "premium" frame.  I would 100% get that replaced

[Blueberry]

Winspace is really dragging their feet. They're still claiming it's totally normal and sent me the attached photo saying " it's the one-piece molding left over and will not affect the frame function."

I told them their photo looks totally different from mine and if they don't replace it I'm going to file a claim with my credit card company. This whole process has been really disappointing. I definitely expected much better quality from them

[Nkearb]

This area of the bottom bracket was open on previous winspace frames and many frames with semi internal cable routing since that was where a cable guide piece went. I am sort of thinking this frame could be an evolution of one of those older frames and that area just sorta got closed up with this minimal amount of material. All I am saying is its possible this is not structurally compromising the frame.


I dont think a credit card company will consider this grounds for a chargeback. But hopefully itll pressure winspace to provide some sort of backup

[Blueberry]

My back-and-forth with Winspace was weird. They kept saying what I was seeing was normal and sent me multiple pictures of frames in their factory to try and show that they all look like that. The only issue was that the photos they sent consistently did not look like mine which only made me more uneasy. I told them a number of times that the issue with my frame was not the same and they kept ignoring it. Even when I told them it seemed like they were willfully ignoring my issue and asked them, very directly, to confirm or deny that they understood the difference between my frame and theirs, they still dodged it.

They did agree to replace it (for an additional fee ) so it is on it's way back to China now and I should hopefully get a replacement in the next 1-2 weeks.

[BeR]

My back-and-forth with Winspace was weird. They kept saying what I was seeing was normal and sent me multiple pictures of frames in their factory to try and show that they all look like that. The only issue was that the photos they sent consistently did not look like mine which only made me more uneasy. I told them a number of times that the issue with my frame was not the same and they kept ignoring it. Even when I told them it seemed like they were willfully ignoring my issue and asked them, very directly, to confirm or deny that they understood the difference between my frame and theirs, they still dodged it.

They did agree to replace it (for an additional fee ) so it is on it's way back to China now and I should hopefully get a replacement in the next 1-2 weeks.

How much cost does the additional fee ?

[Blueberry]

How much cost does the additional fee ?

$200. Which is understandable, in a way, because they have now shipped one frame to me, sent me a return label for shipping the frame back, and are supposed to ship me a second frame. That being said, it's under warranty and it seems like they should just cover all of it. It's not my fault they sent a frame with a big chip inside the bb. The frame is for a friend though and she wanted to do the exchange.

[BeR]

$200. Which is understandable, in a way, because they have now shipped one frame to me, sent me a return label for shipping the frame back, and are supposed to ship me a second frame. That being said, it's under warranty and it seems like they should just cover all of it. It's not my fault they sent a frame with a big chip inside the bb. The frame is for a friend though and she wanted to do the exchange.

I hope that your first frame won't be sell by them after sending back.

[Serge_K]

The BB area, with the headset area, are probably the areas in the bike that experience the most torque / force. On your photos, it's pretty evident there's delamination, someone F'ed up. You're not supposed to have half of your wall thickness (or more) not glued into the matrix of the frame itself.
Them dragging their feet is extremely disappointing.
Given their margin levels where they basically sell frames for 1500 that others sell for 500, i really dont think you should pay anything.
Makes me think of the forum user who bought a fake SL8 and while sprinting he ripped the frame apart at the BB area. Basically, this happens. And the headset areas sees enormous force when you brake and hit stuff. Numerous examples come to mind there (specialized headset recalls, videos of pros snapping forks on TT bikes...)
As frames get lighter, it's increasingly important that the inside looks pristine, because there's very little material. The SWORKS frames, LAB71 frames, are notorious for breaking like matches because yes they're light AF, because the walls are thin AF. So you can't have big ass loose carbon shards inside, that just means your frame has zero structural integrity there. Or even if it does, you're paying full price for it, why accept a shoddy product?

[Blueberry]

the longer this drags out, the more annoyed I get. The returned frame has been sitting in a warehouse in Shenzhen for 11 days because they messed up the commercial invoice. They classified it as a "sample" rather than a "return," which is a thing they do to avoid import duties. They also declared the value as 150 USD, which is another standard way to avoid import duties. I'm not sure which part (or maybe it was both) the customs clearance people didn't like. I tried to send an updated invoice a few days ago but it's still sitting there so I'm not sure they were happy enough with my update. I also asked Winspace to deal with it earlier last week, because it was their mess up to begin with. So far they have done nothing.

Winspace won't send a replacement until they receive the original frame back... and it's starting to feel like they're actively trying to not get the returned frame 

[Serge_K]

That's bad. Sorry to hear.
Again, given the premium price point, the fact they're still cheating with customs and all that, really makes you question where they add value / how they differ from their $500 frame peers. If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
It's not nice to ride a bike with a sour taste. Feeling cheated by the company that sold you the frame isn't how you want to start your relationship with a bike.
Good luck :/