LTWOO ER9 & ERX - Electronic groepsets

[TidyDinosaur]

With everyone going 12 speed and electronic, I've noticed an uptick of 11 speed Ultegra/105/GRX hydraulic shifters being sold. I already put a few bids on some shifters. After hearing all the mixed reports about LTwoo, and the fact I don't feel like buying new cranks/chains/cassettes, staying 11 speed mechanical doesn't sound like such a bad idea!

Yes, there is some nice stuff for sale on second hand sites... And most of it is taken really good care off.

The last Ultegra 11sp set I bought cost me 230 for shifters / FD / RD and cassette. Add 95€ for 2 new callipers, 45 for cables and chain and you have a nice set for 370. Add a nice Ali crank for 70€ and you have a total of 440€ (or get a second hand Ultegra crank for 120€).

If you build a bike like this you can have a 7,3kg bike for less than 2.000€

[neobiker]

Yes, there is some nice stuff for sale on second hand sites... And most of it is taken really good care off.

The last Ultegra 11sp set I bought cost me 230 for shifters / FD / RD and cassette. Add 95€ for 2 new callipers, 45 for cables and chain and you have a nice set for 370. Add a nice Ali crank for 70€ and you have a total of 440€ (or get a second hand Ultegra crank for 120€).

If you build a bike like this you can have a 7,3kg bike for less than 2.000€

You get a new Shimano 105 11 speed for 522€ on Wiggle. It is a bit less of a hassle.

[Sebastian]

You can run a Shimano 12s (HG body) with SRAM AXS (I use that combo on the trainer). The issue is that you loss the 10t smallest cog (XDR is mandatory). Not a problem in the trainer, but could be an issue on road, with 46T or 48T big chainring.

There is no HG 12sp cassette that is officially compatible with Sram road flattop chains, as far as I', aware. It's gonna work and it's gonna shift fine, I guess. But in theory the rollers and the ramping of the teeth don't fit together 100% resulting in accelerated wear. Most people seem to consider it a non issue, however.

[BalticSea]

There is no HG 12sp cassette that is officially compatible with Sram road flattop chains, as far as I', aware. It's gonna work and it's gonna shift fine, I guess. But in theory the rollers and the ramping of the teeth don't fit together 100% resulting in accelerated wear. Most people seem to consider it a non issue, however.

Sram's own 11-44t XPLR cassette (HG freehub compatible) is officially compatible with flat top chain

[chughes]

My take is that some of the criticism of Lwoo is unfair. Luke (trace Vello) admits that there was an issue with the trifox frame  where the FD hangar was moving. How sure is he that the FD did not sustain damage due to this? The other issue  is some persons are clearly purchasing  a beta version. At the time of their  purchase Ltwoo had not released hence it was not sold on their official page . Can  Ltwoo be blamed for persons who were part of its beta testing, turning around and selling the product they were to test?  There are simply too many variables, not being properly considered. I have 11 speed DI2 and I know there is an issue sometimes when you use the app, even after properly disconnecting, the gears won't shift. You cannot re-enter the app, because its now unable to see the device.. Took me awhile to figure out it still thinks its connected and I need to disconnect Bluetooth (Even Shimano released product has bugs)

[Sebastian]

Sram's own 11-44t XPLR cassette (HG freehub compatible) is officially compatible with flat top chain

I haven’t made myself clear. I meant HG road cassettes which are officially compatible with flattop chains. Those don’t exist to my knowledge. But I’ll happily be corrected.

[Sakizashi]

My take is that some of the criticism of Lwoo is unfair. Luke (trace Vello) admits that there was an issue with the trifox frame  where the FD hangar was moving. How sure is he that the FD did not sustain damage due to this? The other issue  is some persons are clearly purchasing  a beta version. At the time of their  purchase Ltwoo had not released hence it was not sold on their official page . Can  Ltwoo be blamed for persons who were part of its beta testing, turning around and selling the product they were to test?  There are simply too many variables, not being properly considered. I have 11 speed DI2 and I know there is an issue sometimes when you use the app, even after properly disconnecting, the gears won't shift. You cannot re-enter the app, because its now unable to see the device.. Took me awhile to figure out it still thinks its connected and I need to disconnect Bluetooth (Even Shimano released product has bugs)

I am pretty sure in terms of timeline GC performance bought his after Ltwoo had announced but before they started selling from their official store. There should be a reasonable expectation that the product would be up to snuff at that point and that Ltwoo would try and control the sale of test units. I know Sram and Shimano have also had test units resold; but the communication that those were test units and asking for them back are the difference between how the different companies handle the situation.

Sram and Shimano also get criticized when their groups are used with non official components or are attached to frames that violate their published frame fit specs, which is why documentation is really important. Shimano does a meh job of this, but Ltwoo's is nonexistent. Those things should also include install documentation on how to prevent / minimize damage from moving or adjusting the front mech.

Additionally, I do think there is something to the somewhat charged language and frustration around customers being used as beta testers by these Chinese brands. They absolutely need a culture shift around their engineering to better test and validate their products. Ltwoo is just the latest in a long line of these kinds of issues. Other recent examples include Craft Racing and Elite's Drive wheels. I think this is problem with how their engineers are trained, but it needs to change if you want to build something as complex as an electronic groupset and win in the market.

There is so much potential here to build groupsets that can have profiles to run nearly any modern cassette offering up an expanded choice of drivetrain components, particularly for the 1x ERG where you have simplified the problem down to rear shifting. I only wish that group had a battery that was easier to access as well as a kit to allow for the compatibility with the accessory powerline from an e-bike battery.

[patliean1]

I haven’t made myself clear. I meant HG road cassettes which are officially compatible with flattop chains. Those don’t exist to my knowledge. But I’ll happily be corrected.

I run Shimano 12 speed road cassettes with SRAM eTap flattop chains on both my Yishun and VeloBuild CX frame. With HG hub laced wheels. Not a single issue ever.

[Sebastian]

I run Shimano 12 speed road cassettes with SRAM eTap flattop chains on both my Yishun and VeloBuild CX frame. With HG hub laced wheels. Not a single issue ever.

Sure. All I’m saying is that in theory it should wear out faster. People who’ve tried both could answer if it actually does.

[PLA]

Sure. All I’m saying is that in theory it should wear out faster. People who’ve tried both could answer if it actually does.

Yeah I've heard a couple of times this happening exactly. Usually with guys who produce a bit of power, so probably the weaker guys aren't experiencing it.

[lantz]

Also does anyone know if you can swap the pulley cage for an OSPW on the ERX rear derailleur?

Anyone got insight on the spec for the pulley cage? Have a gruppo on the way and want to maybe swap an OSPW in as well.

[boxof13]

Alright! I think I can now give some thoughts on my eR9 experience. I have now ridden ~400 km over a few rides, one of which was a ~125km ride. I am now using my previous Shimano 11-speed cassette. I guess my take will be similar to what Trace Velo, China Cycling and GC Performance have said; when it works, it is amazing! Shift is smooth, especially when indexed properly. I don't have any issue shifting under load. Though I am only a 70kg rider with max power of ~950W.

So far, I have not had any issue with my unit, except the faulty cable, which LTWOO sent replacement part promptly. My interaction with LTWOO on Aliexpress has been non-optimal, because of the time zone difference and they seem to reply only at certain hours of the days. So, my suggestion if anyone is running into issues is to be precise, concise and easy to understand, as they seem to be using Aliexpress translator for the communication.

A couple of things that I noticed: while the manual trim works, there is no way to switch back to the non-trimmed position, unless you go to the next chainring and back. This should be easily fixed with a firmware update. Another thing I noticed was that battery life is not that great. From a full charge, I could only get ~400km. I am not sure if this is from the battery or just because it is the first battery cycle. I will have check for the next battery cycle.

Installation of the groupset cannot be any easier than installing Shimano Di2 as they are identical, even down to the mineral oil for the brake. The only difference is the way it is bled. LTWOO has another air outlet which should make it easier to bleed. As long as you follow the instructions that LTWOO has on YouTube, you’re good. The brake also feels amazing, I don’t notice any significant difference to modulation or stopping power to a similarly well-setup Shimano brakes.

Overall, I am happy with the groupset and I certainly hope this won’t change anytime soon.

[Sebastian]

The "Official LTWOO Store" on Aliexpress is not actually operated by LTWOO. This at least is what Joe from China Cycling said in the comments under his latest video on the whole LTWOO erx/er9 saga. So that might explain your experience with them somewhat. Just saying.

I'm not sure, but maybe it would actually be quicker and easier to file a warranty claim on the official LTWOO website? There is a section for that but that requires you to upload an invoice and enter a serial number. Not all units seem to actually have a serial number - the early ones in particular don't.

[jonathanf2]

It seems all the dead FD/RD issues with the ER9/ERX stems from the rain. LTwoo probably cut corners on weather sealing. Not sure I'd trust the new EGR especially since gravel will definitely see harsher terrain. Also that name doesn't roll off the tongue. E-GR. They should of called it the GR-E. I would just skip that groupset because it's annoying to pronounce! Haha

[boxof13]

The "Official LTWOO Store" on Aliexpress is not actually operated by LTWOO. This at least is what Joe from China Cycling said in the comments under his latest video on the whole LTWOO erx/er9 saga. So that might explain your experience with them somewhat. Just saying.

I'm not sure, but maybe it would actually be quicker and easier to file a warranty claim on the official LTWOO website? There is a section for that but that requires you to upload an invoice and enter a serial number. Not all units seem to actually have a serial number - the early ones in particular don't.

Now it makes sense that the store said they have to "ask the factory" to send the replacement cable. I just hope I won't have to try the warranty claim anytime soon.