LTWOO ER9 & ERX - Electronic groepsets

[Sebastian]

Sram's own 11-44t XPLR cassette (HG freehub compatible) is officially compatible with flat top chain

I haven’t made myself clear. I meant HG road cassettes which are officially compatible with flattop chains. Those don’t exist to my knowledge. But I’ll happily be corrected.

[Sakizashi]

My take is that some of the criticism of Lwoo is unfair. Luke (trace Vello) admits that there was an issue with the trifox frame  where the FD hangar was moving. How sure is he that the FD did not sustain damage due to this? The other issue  is some persons are clearly purchasing  a beta version. At the time of their  purchase Ltwoo had not released hence it was not sold on their official page . Can  Ltwoo be blamed for persons who were part of its beta testing, turning around and selling the product they were to test?  There are simply too many variables, not being properly considered. I have 11 speed DI2 and I know there is an issue sometimes when you use the app, even after properly disconnecting, the gears won't shift. You cannot re-enter the app, because its now unable to see the device.. Took me awhile to figure out it still thinks its connected and I need to disconnect Bluetooth (Even Shimano released product has bugs)

I am pretty sure in terms of timeline GC performance bought his after Ltwoo had announced but before they started selling from their official store. There should be a reasonable expectation that the product would be up to snuff at that point and that Ltwoo would try and control the sale of test units. I know Sram and Shimano have also had test units resold; but the communication that those were test units and asking for them back are the difference between how the different companies handle the situation.

Sram and Shimano also get criticized when their groups are used with non official components or are attached to frames that violate their published frame fit specs, which is why documentation is really important. Shimano does a meh job of this, but Ltwoo's is nonexistent. Those things should also include install documentation on how to prevent / minimize damage from moving or adjusting the front mech.

Additionally, I do think there is something to the somewhat charged language and frustration around customers being used as beta testers by these Chinese brands. They absolutely need a culture shift around their engineering to better test and validate their products. Ltwoo is just the latest in a long line of these kinds of issues. Other recent examples include Craft Racing and Elite's Drive wheels. I think this is problem with how their engineers are trained, but it needs to change if you want to build something as complex as an electronic groupset and win in the market.

There is so much potential here to build groupsets that can have profiles to run nearly any modern cassette offering up an expanded choice of drivetrain components, particularly for the 1x ERG where you have simplified the problem down to rear shifting. I only wish that group had a battery that was easier to access as well as a kit to allow for the compatibility with the accessory powerline from an e-bike battery.

[patliean1]

I haven’t made myself clear. I meant HG road cassettes which are officially compatible with flattop chains. Those don’t exist to my knowledge. But I’ll happily be corrected.

I run Shimano 12 speed road cassettes with SRAM eTap flattop chains on both my Yishun and VeloBuild CX frame. With HG hub laced wheels. Not a single issue ever.

[Sebastian]

I run Shimano 12 speed road cassettes with SRAM eTap flattop chains on both my Yishun and VeloBuild CX frame. With HG hub laced wheels. Not a single issue ever.

Sure. All I’m saying is that in theory it should wear out faster. People who’ve tried both could answer if it actually does.

[PLA]

Sure. All I’m saying is that in theory it should wear out faster. People who’ve tried both could answer if it actually does.

Yeah I've heard a couple of times this happening exactly. Usually with guys who produce a bit of power, so probably the weaker guys aren't experiencing it.

[lantz]

Also does anyone know if you can swap the pulley cage for an OSPW on the ERX rear derailleur?

Anyone got insight on the spec for the pulley cage? Have a gruppo on the way and want to maybe swap an OSPW in as well.

[boxof13]

Alright! I think I can now give some thoughts on my eR9 experience. I have now ridden ~400 km over a few rides, one of which was a ~125km ride. I am now using my previous Shimano 11-speed cassette. I guess my take will be similar to what Trace Velo, China Cycling and GC Performance have said; when it works, it is amazing! Shift is smooth, especially when indexed properly. I don't have any issue shifting under load. Though I am only a 70kg rider with max power of ~950W.

So far, I have not had any issue with my unit, except the faulty cable, which LTWOO sent replacement part promptly. My interaction with LTWOO on Aliexpress has been non-optimal, because of the time zone difference and they seem to reply only at certain hours of the days. So, my suggestion if anyone is running into issues is to be precise, concise and easy to understand, as they seem to be using Aliexpress translator for the communication.

A couple of things that I noticed: while the manual trim works, there is no way to switch back to the non-trimmed position, unless you go to the next chainring and back. This should be easily fixed with a firmware update. Another thing I noticed was that battery life is not that great. From a full charge, I could only get ~400km. I am not sure if this is from the battery or just because it is the first battery cycle. I will have check for the next battery cycle.

Installation of the groupset cannot be any easier than installing Shimano Di2 as they are identical, even down to the mineral oil for the brake. The only difference is the way it is bled. LTWOO has another air outlet which should make it easier to bleed. As long as you follow the instructions that LTWOO has on YouTube, you’re good. The brake also feels amazing, I don’t notice any significant difference to modulation or stopping power to a similarly well-setup Shimano brakes.

Overall, I am happy with the groupset and I certainly hope this won’t change anytime soon.

[Sebastian]

The "Official LTWOO Store" on Aliexpress is not actually operated by LTWOO. This at least is what Joe from China Cycling said in the comments under his latest video on the whole LTWOO erx/er9 saga. So that might explain your experience with them somewhat. Just saying.

I'm not sure, but maybe it would actually be quicker and easier to file a warranty claim on the official LTWOO website? There is a section for that but that requires you to upload an invoice and enter a serial number. Not all units seem to actually have a serial number - the early ones in particular don't.

[jonathanf2]

It seems all the dead FD/RD issues with the ER9/ERX stems from the rain. LTwoo probably cut corners on weather sealing. Not sure I'd trust the new EGR especially since gravel will definitely see harsher terrain. Also that name doesn't roll off the tongue. E-GR. They should of called it the GR-E. I would just skip that groupset because it's annoying to pronounce! Haha

[boxof13]

The "Official LTWOO Store" on Aliexpress is not actually operated by LTWOO. This at least is what Joe from China Cycling said in the comments under his latest video on the whole LTWOO erx/er9 saga. So that might explain your experience with them somewhat. Just saying.

I'm not sure, but maybe it would actually be quicker and easier to file a warranty claim on the official LTWOO website? There is a section for that but that requires you to upload an invoice and enter a serial number. Not all units seem to actually have a serial number - the early ones in particular don't.

Now it makes sense that the store said they have to "ask the factory" to send the replacement cable. I just hope I won't have to try the warranty claim anytime soon.

[strayan_rice_farmer]

Another masochist eR9 beta tester chiming in:

As with the user above I also had sub-optimal interactions with their customers service, with typically 1 business day gaps in the reply time, so getting a replacement part which I had damaged took a total of 5 days to be dispatched.

Regarding the shifting performance, it's quite good. A few rides so far and no missed shifts or issues with the groupset not waking up.
Shifting under load up to 200w is crisp and the app integration is very good. Being able to adjust each cassette and chainring offset through the app is fantastic for setup, during my first ride I was able to whip the phone out and fine tune the trim whilst riding.
Regarding the trim function, I'm not sure if it is a result of the latest update but you can now trim in both directions (however) the trim direction is not controlled by the user. Essentially whenever you hear front chain rub, pressing shift again will trim the FD if the system determines it needs trimming, and there seems to be several steps. I.e if I shift from the 11th cog to 9th there is a trim step, then 9th to 3rd it will trim again, then the same the other direction.

Install wise it was easy, not having to run gear shift cables saves some grey hairs especially if you're fully integrated. The YouTuber Klein concept has a solid 90min install video which walks through all the steps.

[Maden]

Another masochist eR9 beta tester chiming in:

As with the user above I also had sub-optimal interactions with their customers service, with typically 1 business day gaps in the reply time, so getting a replacement part which I had damaged took a total of 5 days to be dispatched.

What was the part?

[Sebastian]

So they replaced a part that you damaged? Sounds like they did more than they had to, right?

[strayan_rice_farmer]

What was the part?

I had gotten some debris stuck into the left shifter hydraulic system, essentially i accidentally turned the plastic line plug the wrong direction then couldn't get it out without using an extractor screw. Pretty big oopsie for a lapse of concentration 

I paid for the replacement part since it was my bad, so it's nothing special in terms of customer service.

[boxof13]

I can confirm with the latest firmware update, the trim options are now more refined. The front derailleur will decide the best trim position. I also noticed that they have fixed the incorrect gear selection showing up on Wahoo. It was showing 12 speed when in fact I was on 11 speed cassette. I cannot confirm if this is also fixed on any other head unit. It is still showing that the battery is low even when fully charged. Hopefully they will fix this on the next update. Well, it looks like LTWOO is certainly working on making the groupset better and better. Kudos to them!