Tavelo Aero Frame

[dsveddy]

 
Speeder RC55D

TIL; touché.

[Nomuetze]

Come on guys…could we tune down a bit?
You may agree or disagree with someone, but still no need bullying other people…

Words are easy written which you would not use face2face….

Anyways….ping pong continues….

GCperformance reply online

[Sakizashi]

Watching the GCPerformance video, I feel terrible that he was called out to make this response. YouTubers bullying YouTubers is BS.

That said, I stand by my interpretation of the videos and Tavelo's response, which shows that management and process mistakes are being made at Tavelo.

However, in GC's video, one thing stood out to me: the idea that Shimano BBs fit fine, so he didn't bother measuring. Not only is this the reality for most people building bikes, but the cottage industry around "better engineered" bike parts is partly to blame for why PT couldn't fit his BB. Yes, the Tavelo frame is out of spec, but Shimano and SRAM use nylons to interface with the carbon as a wear surface and widen the tolerances to make a functional interference fit. Wheels Manufacturing also manages this by making the DS of their screw-together BBs slightly smaller. This is also a feature with BB bearings; Shimano and SRAM use plastic inserts with 24mm and 29mm spindles. In both cases, "better engineered" one-piece BBs and 24mm and 29mm custom bearings appeared to fix some issues. In situations where they aren't needed, they also create new problems. The trade-off for precision somewhere is also needing it on the corresponding surface. I am not defending Tavelo's being out of spec, but I am defending the non-engineers who say the bike works fine with their BB. It probably does for them because someone else engineered a part that deals with the potential BB being out of spec.

Also another vote for someone (aka, @patliean1) to buy and review the SC-R55D. With the standard round headset cap, UDH, and lower price, it sure would be interesting, though I suspect it will also likely need some attention on the seat post clamp.

[repoman]

I'm curious as to how many frames are actually bang on in BB tolerances. I'm trying to think about previous examinations and can't really think of many. 
Calipers are not the tool to be using to do this measurement either, you need a bore gauge/mic.   
I'm thinking the technology of molding these frames simply isn't capable of producing tolerances that high and further process is required like sticking the frame in a jig on a mill and using a boring bar type tool or reaming setup to get it spot on where you could actually indicate. 

Anyone work at a bike shop? Curious if it's common place to ream BB on something like a Specialized to dimension...hand reamers like Park Tool potentially isn't really going to be a reliable way of getting the BB bore to dimension at these accuracies, at least in alignment and parallelism (it would achieve OD precisely however). 

[Sakizashi]

I'm curious as to how many frames are actually bang on in BB tolerances. I'm trying to think about previous examinations and can't really think of many. 
Calipers are not the tool to be using to do this measurement either, you need a bore gauge/mic.   
I'm thinking the technology of molding these frames simply isn't capable of producing tolerances that high and further process is required like sticking the frame in a jig on a mill and using a boring bar type tool or reaming setup to get it spot on where you could actually indicate. 

Anyone work at a bike shop? Curious if it's common place to ream BB on something like a Specialized to dimension...hand reamers like Park Tool potentially isn't really going to be a reliable way of getting the BB bore to dimension at these accuracies, at least in alignment and parallelism (it would achieve OD precisely however).

I live in DC. We have a huge cycling scene here extending north into Maryland and south to Richmond. I think it has the most significant cycling scene east of the Rockies (in the US). There is exactly one shop I know that has the tools to both face and ream frames (not just do disc mounts). I think reaming a carbon BB would never happen there. Some Ti frames, probably because they could charge for it; steel and alloy, sure, but carbon would just kill those tools and they aren't cheap.

[patliean1]

Remember when Mapdec Cycle Works reamed the bottom bracket on an SL8, effectively voiding the warranty?

[dsveddy]

I live in DC. We have a huge cycling scene here extending north into Maryland and south to Richmond. I think it has the most significant cycling scene east of the Rockies. There is exactly one shop I know that has the tools to both face and ream frames (not just do disc mounts). I think reaming a carbon BB would never happen there. Some Ti frames, probably because they could charge for it; steel and alloy, sure, but carbon would just kill those tools and they aren't cheap.

I can corroborate, when I built up my light carbon and discovered the bad BB, I called every bike shop in the Boston area and was turned down. Any shop that had the tool said they’d use it on aluminum only.

[Nomuetze]

Actually I do like GCperformance vid….showing off and comparing different brands in his shop…
With some of the points mentioned by PT…

And concerning QC…look over at a neighbour forum discussing SL8 fork „out of center wheel issues“…
Has also some funny conclusions there…

And lastly…still I think we might overestimate western market importance when looking at the huge Chinese market itself.

[toxin]

Remember when Mapdec Cycle Works reamed the bottom bracket on an SL8, effectively voiding the warranty?

faced not reamed

and well, it's either that or a wonkily mounted BB

and if you're tying to warranty the frame for an unrelated issues, I suspect that kind of "voiding of warranty" wouldn't hold up in court, just like 'warranty void if removed' stickers

[kubackje]

Remember when Mapdec Cycle Works reamed the bottom bracket on an SL8, effectively voiding the warranty?

It's hard for me to be on the side of mapdick with this one as he is an absolute clown, but it seems specialized has this problem on many frames and according to this dude not only specialized.
And I think that Alex's Dowsett mechanic knows his stuff. Dude is literally sponsored by Specialized.

4:20
https://youtu.be/9xBj2k6AsNI?si=RpCcSvZRVvcFzC08

[James dean]

Personally I was hyped by the Arow frame because it seemed to bring all the things I wanted in a frame, which was sub 1000g weight with a design that looks really aero. What are the alternative bikes that have similar qualities? Seka Spear (more expensive, no US dealer) and Winspace Agile are pretty much it. One of the few Chiner frames that seemed to be on par with the latest gen allround bikes like the SL8, new Madone, SS6-2 etc. I don't think the hype was artificially high per-se, they are offering a frame design a lot of people want.

I’m a SEKA dealer. You can contact me

[panel]

Great colour........

[Bigbobby1482]

It's hard for me to be on the side of mapdick with this one as he is an absolute clown, but it seems specialized has this problem on many frames and according to this dude not only specialized.
And I think that Alex's Dowsett mechanic knows his stuff. Dude is literally sponsored by Specialized.

4:20
https://youtu.be/9xBj2k6AsNI?si=RpCcSvZRVvcFzC08

Wow he really hurt your feelings?
You should stop the personal attacks, they bring no value to this forum, even if you don't like him...
As an s-works owner with bottom bracket alignment issues, I can say it's a problem...

[patliean1]

Also another vote for someone (aka, @patliean1) to buy and review the SC-R55D. With the standard round headset cap, UDH, and lower price, it sure would be interesting, though I suspect it will also likely need some attention on the seat post clamp.

Does Speeder sell any of its frames to the general public? And if so, what price range are we looking at?

My original plan was to get the Arow and literally use ever single component off my Tavelo Attack for the build. At this point I could just do the same with the SC-R55D.

[PLA]

Wow he really hurt your feelings?
You should stop the personal attacks, they bring no value to this forum, even if you don't like him...
As an s-works owner with bottom bracket alignment issues, I can say it's a problem...

Aw are you that sensitive that you felt the need to give a voice to your sensitive tears?

He deserves to get called out, he voided a warranty out of being arrogant and uneducated. At the same time, the customer is just as stupid for taking his frame to get prepared by a mechanic who isn't working on behalf of specialized.

The funniest part is that the arrogant mechanic ends up building up the lightest frame with brick components and it ends up weighing up the same as the titanic. And the customer is happy with that? Well, they're both fools.