Tavelo Aero Frame

[Takiyaki]

the raison d'etre of this forum is to find the good factories and weed out the bad ones. and tavelo, at this moment, doesnt appear to be a good factory.

The signal i hear is: dont buy Tavelo, especially at this price point.

I dont think anyone has suggested otherwise.

[Nomuetze]

Well…might surprise but still…nobody is forced to go the Tavelo way…

Out of curiosity:
Who in this fred owns a Tavelo…? Because there is so much wisdom shared?
Myself (Attack)
Patrick (Attack)

Anybody else?

[patliean1]

I do recall the moderators recently having to get involved and delete racially charged comments on this forum against the Chinese.

What I've learned over the years having purchased and built frames from both Chinese and Western brands is that neither option makes a customer more virtuous than the other. An unpopular opinion around here I've learned. Both options have their benefits. And both have seen their blunders. Yet folks will defend Specialized to the death. Same with VeloBuild. You can do 1500w on your TanTan frame and drop Rapha/Sworks dudes? Cool man. You look down on customers looking for an effective alternative to the major brands? Okay I guess.

I want Tavelo, like all brands, to succeed because it ultimately means more options for the consumer. At the moment no one is really recommending Tavelo's Arow frame which seem to be pretty obvious.

[Macedingle]

I think the expectations of the Tavelo became artificially high when Joe from Panda Podium hyped it up in a way where it made it see it was some Ex Winspace renegade employees, who where about to make a superior product. But at this time it looks the the attitude has soured and Winspace remains a top choice!

[PLA]

Yeah never really understood that. Rogue winspace employees just go and buy frame from adapt and throw the tavelo brand on it.

[Sakizashi]

A lot is getting lost in the noise, which is pretty important to consider as a customer.

1. Tavelo used what they had said was not their standard production method to cure the area around the BB shell on early orders. This should never happen. You should not be sending prototypes out to customers with the intent of making a running change early in production. This isn't like shipping software where later customers can update to the equivalent product; there is no way for most customers to fix these bikes. This speaks to the company and their decision-making, highlighting that they are shipping product before fully sorting production.
2. Blaming suppliers. This is a common one, and small brands usually do lack supplier leverage. I brought up my experience with my Guerciotti, which was generally a good bike outside of the BB issue. That small company shared the mold with Kestral and a few others and after a while the bike popped up in Flybike's catalog. While Carbonda never sold the exact same frame, one of the big differences you paid for vs. the Carbonda 696 was the use of Deda as the supplier for small parts vs. Neco or whoever. That matters, and it's also the job of the brand to select suppliers that can be depended on for quality and long-term support. Tavelo seems to have overlooked that, which is a pretty basic step.
3. The bike is highly integrated, but the design doesn't appear to have been qualified as an integrated system. This is highlighted by the issues with installing the D-shaped steerer plug, the immaturity of the seat post expander design, etc. Given that consumers can't go out and buy expanders since not all D shapes are the same, and the plastic covers and spacers are different, etc., this is a problem that's hard to resolve.

I don't think any of this is a result of poor workmanship at the factory. If anything, the Arow frame looks pretty clean regarding carbon construction in these videos and the visual design is sharp; management's decision-making and the immaturity of the design process, including the non-carbon components, are the problems here.

[PLA]

I want Tavelo, like all brands, to succeed because it ultimately means more options for the consumer. At the moment no one is really recommending Tavelo's Arow frame which seem to be pretty obvious.

Dunno man, not saying I want them to fail, but I think tavelo failing could also be a good thing. It could show that you can't just go and make a brand, make poor decisions and there be no consequences. These fresh chinese brands need to respect and value their customers, and have tha shiznit together before they start pumping out crap and sending it.

Every company makes mistakes, but in the case of tavelo, these are the basics that every company should have sorted without even blinking an eye. And there is even less excuse for them since they were previously part of winspace.

[patliean1]

Dunno man, not saying I want them to fail, but I think tavelo failing could also be a good thing. It could show that you can't just go and make a brand, make poor decisions and there be no consequences. These fresh chinese brands need to respect and value their customers, and have tha shiznit together before they start pumping out crap and sending it.

Dang man, I can't even argue that logical of a point. Respect.
This all could be a cautionary tale for future brands.

Might need to steal this for an upcoming video...

[Sakizashi]

Dunno man, not saying I want them to fail, but I think tavelo failing could also be a good thing. It could show that you can't just go and make a brand, make poor decisions and there be no consequences. These fresh chinese brands need to respect and value their customers, and have tha shiznit together before they start pumping out crap and sending it.

Every company makes mistakes, but in the case of tavelo, these are the basics that every company should have sorted without even blinking an eye. And there is even less excuse for them since they were previously part of winspace.

I hope Tavelo finds its place in the market and succeeds, but this stuff is more challenging than it sounds. Look at the LTwoo and Wheeltop groups. There were tons of people on forums saying it was going to be checkmate as soon as the Chinese electronic groups came out. Turns out its a lot harder than it sounds.

The same thing applies to framesets that are this proprietary. It's possible that a chamfer or fillet wasn't specified because the production method wasn't fully decided, and then no one went back to update the design once it was. Tavelo and the factory behind them seem new. Winspace came from Gotobike or one of the older open mold factories. They had a lot of experience and mature processes to build on. If a designer or part of the engineering team (or worse, the marketing team) left to found Tavelo, they likely took very little of that with them. As a new business owner trying to make things work, having been one of many leaders in my prior places of employment, I can relate to the effect of needing more knowledge and complete processes.

Winspace products also aren't as mature as this forum (and Joe from PP) makes them out to be. Their hubs for example are a mess and have many documented cases of short bearing life compared to the likes of DT Swiss. The Agile frameset geometries are another example.

[Serge_K]

I think the expectations of the Tavelo became artificially high when Joe from Panda Podium hyped it up in a way where it made it see it was some Ex Winspace renegade employees, who where about to make a superior product. But at this time it looks the the attitude has soured and Winspace remains a top choice!

If that's the source of the hype, Joe being ex winspace himself, they may just be his friends and so he assumed / claimed their stuff would be great.
I'll routinely defend my girlfriend's cooking because I get to sleep with her. We have biases and hidden agendas.

[Takiyaki]

Everyone making money from this, be it as a "got it for free" reviewer or an engagement paid critic, has a pretty obvious conflict of interest. I doubt Peak Torque's Arow review would have the most views of them all if he was positive about it

I agree that in the end people should sort through the noise, but I also think there is noise on both ends of the spectrum, and the noise being pleasant to someone doesn't mean they're objective or w/o agendas.

[RDY]

If Tavelo fails, it'll just be the brand.  They're the in-house brand of a medium sized OEM/ODM. They'd relaunch the next day under a new name.

[kubackje]

This is how u make a proper response

https://youtu.be/t3BTMTm5Wpc?si=sklUeFguaniEWKbS

Those drama queens from Australia should learn. Hope those Karen's go to hell, hate people with this attitude.

[dsveddy]

I think the expectations of the Tavelo became artificially high when Joe from Panda Podium hyped it up in a way where it made it see it was some Ex Winspace renegade employees, who where about to make a superior product. But at this time it looks the the attitude has soured and Winspace remains a top choice!

Personally I was hyped by the Arow frame because it seemed to bring all the things I wanted in a frame, which was sub 1000g weight with a design that looks really aero. What are the alternative bikes that have similar qualities? Seka Spear (more expensive, no US dealer) and Winspace Agile are pretty much it. One of the few Chiner frames that seemed to be on par with the latest gen allround bikes like the SL8, new Madone, SS6-2 etc. I don't think the hype was artificially high per-se, they are offering a frame design a lot of people want.

[repoman]

Personally I was hyped by the Arow frame because it seemed to bring all the things I wanted in a frame, which was sub 1000g weight with a design that looks really aero. What are the alternative bikes that have similar qualities? Seka Spear (more expensive, no US dealer) and Winspace Agile are pretty much it. One of the few Chiner frames that seemed to be on par with the latest gen allround bikes like the SL8, new Madone, SS6-2 etc. I don't think the hype was artificially high per-se, they are offering a frame design a lot of people want.

 
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