Continuation: IIIPRO E4 4-Piston Hydraulic MTB Brakes - Are they to be trusted?

[Fat Larry]

I wouldn't trust that barb as far as I can throw it, but if you could replace it with BH90 and olives, then I would use them.

There is an older version of the perpendicular levers on Ali that has a banjo connection which goes into a short hose before connecting to a standard olive and barb. I was considering them but there's no feed back out there on them specifically and also the reservoir on the lever is really really small which put me off.

[Tijoe]

Wrote this in the other thread but.. I spent ages looking at them a few days ago and spotted a review on one of the Ali listings saying that the new barb leaks..

Shame, the levers look great.

I'm curious about the Frog Wake brakes now, similar looking callipers, with three different lever shapes I've seen. Still I'm not going to be the test subject as i'm sorted for brakes.

I have not researched the newer generation bar units that you have posted.   I feel stuck between a rock and failing brakes.   I want to try to keep my existing E4s going for several reasons.   1. I only paid around $80 each for my E4s.  The latest versions are almost 2X the price.  Priced at $150 to $200, my expectations are a lot higher regarding the latest IIIPro brakes. I haven't seen any reviews stating that they are better than the E4s.    2.  In general, I am protesting the USA tariffs, and ordering and/or purchasing only essential items.  At the current Aliexpress prices, I would purchase Magura MT5s or MT7s and be done with it.

[Fat Larry]

I have not researched the newer generation bar units that you have posted.   I feel stuck between a rock and failing brakes.   I want to try to keep my existing E4s going for several reasons.   1. I only paid around $80 each for my E4s.  The latest versions are almost 2X the price.  Priced at $150 to $200, my expectations are a lot higher regarding the latest IIIPro brakes. I haven't seen any reviews stating that they are better than the E4s.    2.  In general, I am protesting the USA tariffs, and ordering and/or purchasing only essential items.  At the current Aliexpress prices, I would purchase Magura MT5s or MT7s and be done with it.

Yeah they are really not doing themselves any favours, if they can't compete on price and have questionable reliability then they're only going to sell them to naive people that don't do their home work.

But tbh I wouldn't buy them at any price if they're going to fail after a short amount of time. So many products on ali end up in that basket, things that either are so poorly designed and built they're unusable or they work briefly before breaking. It's part of the game i guess avoiding buying outright junk while finding a few gems. 

[Tijoe]

I scrutinized the specifications and pictures listed in an Aliexpress listing for the "Frog Wake"  Brakes.   A few thing stand out.

- The calipers use 18mm pistons.  (Same as SRAM Maven.  Perhaps good from a spare piston and seal replacement.)
- This is 11% greater piston area than the E4 calipers.   This implies to me that the hydraulic design in the levers have to be different than the E-4s.)
-  The levers on the Frog Wake are interchangeable left to right, and right to left.
-  The fluid reservoir in the lever assembly appear to have 3 bleed ports.  Top, bottom, and a perpendicular one.  (This could be good to help bleeding, it also indicates to me that the lever assemblies could be easier to bleed than the E4s.
- The levers use a forged body, and the reservoir is located close to the bar mounting clamp, verses the E-4 lever body, they are on top of the piston actuator and the E4 body appears to be CNC machined..

Perhaps they are an improved design, and merit a higher price...

[Fat Larry]

I scrutinized the specifications and pictures listed in an Aliexpress listing for the "Frog Wake"  Brakes.   A few thing stand out.

- The calipers use 18mm pistons.  (Same as SRAM Maven.  Perhaps good from a spare piston and seal replacement.)
- This is 11% greater piston area than the E4 calipers.   This implies to me that the hydraulic design in the levers have to be different than the E-4s.)
-  The levers on the Frog Wake are interchangeable left to right, and right to left.
-  The fluid reservoir in the lever assembly appear to have 3 bleed ports.  Top, bottom, and a perpendicular one.  (This could be good to help bleeding, it also indicates to me that the lever assemblies could be easier to bleed than the E4s.
- The levers use a forged body, and the reservoir is located close to the bar mounting clamp, verses the E-4 lever body, they are on top of the piston actuator and the E4 body appears to be CNC machined..

Perhaps they are an improved design, and merit a higher price...

Sounds promising. I've heard the Mavens suffer from wandering bite point though.

At a quick glance I've spotted three lever designs for them.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009848849196.html?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005006089156727.html?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005009813182853.html?

Some funky paint jobs too.

They're pricy for Ali brakes, an MT420 set on Ali is nearly half the price for me.

[adri]

also newer generation??

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005009662432547.html?spm=a2g0o.detail.pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller.8.3b3a1mOM1mOM4g&gps-id=pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller&scm=1007.40050.354490.0&scm_id=1007.40050.354490.0&scm-url=1007.40050.354490.0&pvid=60765e9b-8726-4fb9-965f-e3730601d010&_t=gps-id:pcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller,scm-url:1007.40050.354490.0,pvid:60765e9b-8726-4fb9-965f-e3730601d010,tpp_buckets:668%232846%238109%231935&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%228%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%2C%22sceneId%22%3A%2230050%22%7D&pdp_npi=6%40dis%21CHF%21225.81%21108.39%21%21%211972.14%21946.64%21%40211b804117576219973506149e5e83%2112000049827072630%21rec%21CH%212792483145%21XZ%211%210%21n_tag%3A-29919%3Bd%3A1d5a640a%3Bm03_new_user%3A-29895&utparam-url=scene%3ApcDetailBottomMoreOtherSeller%7Cquery_from%3A%7Cx_object_id%3A1005009662432547%7C_p_origin_prod%3A

[Fat Larry]

I have not researched the newer generation bar units that you have posted.   I feel stuck between a rock and failing brakes.   I want to try to keep my existing E4s going for several reasons.   1. I only paid around $80 each for my E4s.  The latest versions are almost 2X the price.  Priced at $150 to $200, my expectations are a lot higher regarding the latest IIIPro brakes. I haven't seen any reviews stating that they are better than the E4s.    2.  In general, I am protesting the USA tariffs, and ordering and/or purchasing only essential items.  At the current Aliexpress prices, I would purchase Magura MT5s or MT7s and be done with it.

Came across this today.

He mentions the same issue you have had. One brake pulling to the bar out of the box. He also seems to think they're not really powerful enough to be used by a skilled rider on a proper enduro bike.

[Skepsist]

I currently have these at home
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005009416537332.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.1b601db8tRsNbu&algo_pvid=195d9343-38e2-4720-a3b8-e3dc5cab091b&algo_exp_id=195d9343-38e2-4720-a3b8-e3dc5cab091b-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22order%22%3A%2276%22%2C%22eval%22%3A%221%22%7D&pdp_npi=6%40dis%21EUR%21245.19%21111.69%21%21%211998.29%21910.27%21%40211b81a317576671611315906e1df9%2112000049099304885%21sea%21DE%210%21ABX%211%210%21n_tag%3A-29910%3Bd%3A469ac7ab%3Bm03_new_user%3A-29895%3BpisId%3A5000000174220118&curPageLogUid=WHUc5RyJ78mr&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A%7Cx_object_id%3A1005009416537332%7C_p_origin_prod%3A#nav-specification
New design, new lever and a reusable hose connection thing. Feels allright but the rest of the bike is not finished yet so no long term experience.

I have some Speedone versions of the E4 on one of my Trial bikes and they work allright for over a year now. Not as strong as a 4-Piston Shimano XT but not that far of. Adjustment screws on the lever are very difficult to turn tough.
I tried the ZTTO "TEAM" brake but its really bad. Not strong enough for trials riding. On a Mountainbike it starts to loose pressure very fast to a point wheres its better to brake with your feet or jump of the bike. Dont recommend them at all very bad.
They also started to leak after about 3 rides. Bleeding is also very difficult even tough they have a reservoir like a hope brake. Tried to fill them with a water/glycol mixture for fun wich worked a little better but still a very bad brake.

[Fat Larry]

I currently have these at home

https://de.aliexpress.com/item/1005009416537332.html?

New design, new lever and a reusable hose connection thing. Feels allright but the rest of the bike is not finished yet so no long term experience.

I have some Speedone versions of the E4 on one of my Trial bikes and they work allright for over a year now. Not as strong as a 4-Piston Shimano XT but not that far of. Adjustment screws on the lever are very difficult to turn tough.
I tried the ZTTO "TEAM" brake but its really bad. Not strong enough for trials riding. On a Mountainbike it starts to loose pressure very fast to a point wheres its better to brake with your feet or jump of the bike. Dont recommend them at all very bad.
They also started to leak after about 3 rides. Bleeding is also very difficult even tough they have a reservoir like a hope brake. Tried to fill them with a water/glycol mixture for fun wich worked a little better but still a very bad brake.

Would be keen to hear any short or long term impressions once you've been using them.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005990805088.html?

These right?

[Skepsist]

Would be keen to hear any short or long term impressions once you've been using them.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005990805088.html?

These right?

I´ll update here once i got to use them. Got a few brakes to compare to:
Hope Tech 4 V4, Shimano XT 4-Piston, Magura MT5 and MT7, Hayes Dominion, Speedone E4, ZTTO Team.
The quick disconnect on the lever seems to be holding the pressure from playing around with the brake.. we`ll see how long it'll hold up in bikeparks

And yes, those are the ZTTO Team, brakes. I had 2 Sets of them and all 4 Brakes are somehow broken. 1 Cant turn the lever adjust but otherwise still working. the other 3 are all leaking on the lever or the caliper.

[frewster]

Looking forward to hearing how they work out. From all of the bad luck people are having with these I wouldn't trust them, personally. Hoping these are better!

[Fat Larry]

I´ll update here once i got to use them. Got a few brakes to compare to:
Hope Tech 4 V4, Shimano XT 4-Piston, Magura MT5 and MT7, Hayes Dominion, Speedone E4, ZTTO Team.
The quick disconnect on the lever seems to be holding the pressure from playing around with the brake.. we`ll see how long it'll hold up in bikeparks

And yes, those are the ZTTO Team, brakes. I had 2 Sets of them and all 4 Brakes are somehow broken. 1 Cant turn the lever adjust but otherwise still working. the other 3 are all leaking on the lever or the caliper.

Do the Speedone versions have ceramic pistons?? I saw a white piston in their promo shots.

[Tijoe]

Do the Speedone versions have ceramic pistons?? I saw a white piston in their promo shots.

Seems to me from my look through the attached listing, the silver shown as a piston area is just part of a 3D CAD model.  None of the actual pictures show the pistons.  The real photos of the calipers have the pads installed.
This "Speedone" version of these brakes appear to be a renamed E4 with the second bleed port added to the calipers.
(Perhaps the E4s are getting a bad reputation and someone is rebranding them to try to sell more of them.)

 https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808098017085.html

[Fat Larry]

Seems to me from my look through the attached listing, the silver shown as a piston area is just part of a 3D CAD model.  None of the actual pictures show the pistons.  The real photos of the calipers have the pads installed.
This "Speedone" version of these brakes appear to be a renamed E4 with the second bleed port added to the calipers.
(Perhaps the E4s are getting a bad reputation and someone is rebranding them to try to sell more of them.)

 https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808098017085.html

I think i've seen these sold under at least four brands if not more. All the usual suspects on Ali, Bucklos, ZTTO, Ryet etc.

[Tijoe]

I did a little research today and took apart one of my E4 levers and took a few images.

- I am impressed with how good of quality and how good the CNC machining of the housing looks.
- The internals match up well with generic cross sections of lever hydraulic cross sections one can find on the web.  (No weird or unique design features. - About what I expected to find.)

I believe that I might have discovered why the hydraulic assembly could be difficult to get all of the bubbles out.
In the second and third attached images, I focused on what appears to be almost a bladder, or some sort of flexible pressure equalization/control insert.  When I took my assembly apart, the indented area of the insert was facing downward.  I think that this indentation, when oriented horizontally, could trap air and not allow the air to escape.  These bubbles could relocate from where they are trapped into another area of the reservoir when the bike is oriented in a direction that the bubbles would move to another area in the reservoir. If the air bubble migrates to the small hole drilled between the reservoir and piston assembly, then air could directly be sucked into the piston area.  (Perhaps why, a good working brake would get a spongy lever if the bike is hung on a wall, or flipped upside down for a period of time.)  This could also help explain when I bleed the brake assembly off the bike versus on the bike, I was able to get a firm feel on the lever very quickly becasue I was rotating the assembly 360 degrees as I pumped the lever.   
-  This may be reaching a bit, but to me it is one possible explanation.

When I reinstalled the bladder thingy,  I rotated it so that the indentations are vertically oriented.  When I eventually try to put this lever assembly back in service, I'll find out this works, or not.