Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: rsw42 on May 28, 2025, 11:45:10 AM
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Hi everyone,
In this other thread (https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,4173.0.html) an aero frameset with high stack, low reach was requested and Peter delivered. It seems like I've got the first one so here's the facts:
Size 56
Unpainted
Parts delivered: frame, fork, seapost, mounting hardware (2 different) for saddle, UDH hanger, front mech hanger, thru axles, grommets
Weights on the pictures include mech hanger (front and rear)
Thoughts: looks extremely well made. Seapost looks a little thin for my liking, would have preferred 27,2 - but aero...
Planned components:
Wheels: Ninevelo GV45
Updates:
Paint Cerakote with Gun Candy effect clears ("Kraken" for the Frame, "Mako" for fork and seatpost)
Tires: Vittoria Corsa in 34 since I'm not planning on going tubeless and the GP 5000 only comes in 35 as AS TR
Headset and stern: Ritchey Switch
Handlebars: Easton EA90AX - 42
Chainset JKT 150mm
Groupset and breaks: GRX 1x11
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Pictures of weights
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More pics... Questions?
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How much did you pay with shipping ? Thanks for the pics
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How much did you pay with shipping ? Thanks for the pics
USD 1009 without paint Inc shipping, customs and taxes.. Price was really well for me since exchange rate in euros where in my favor die to US tariff chaos
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will you be painting the frameset yourself?
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Damn he quoted me 1350...... I was ok but if others are getting 300+ off, im out.
....and my quote was without shipping..... what's up with that?
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Damn he quoted me 1350...... I was ok but if others are getting 300+ off, im out.
....and my quote was without shipping..... what's up with that?
Mine is without paint and without handlebar. I've got quoted 1350 with paint and handlebar as well
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will you be painting the frameset yourself?
It's either gonna be painted or coated with cerakote...
I've already had a friend who's a painter lined up with everything... Since I can't reach him for a week now (and I'm not in s hurry anymore due to injury)... A bit undecided...
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I have some nitpicks, as always, but for what it is, this is a pretty alright design. Although I will probably always be a T47 hater
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Why the hate for T47 may I ask sir ?
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T47-68 is pointless, it does nothing better than BSA, is heavier and less aero. T47-86 moves the bearings inboard, which is better from an aero and load path standpoint, but the former is kinda meaningless for the forces a human can produce. It comes with the downside of interfering with the mounting of some power meter spiders and the spline flanges have to be tiny which worsens tool engagement. Also since the splines on it run all the way through the flange, it's easier to scratch the frame with the tool during installation. T47-77 is just the advantages and disadvantages of each on their respective sides. All still heavier than BSA.
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It comes with the downside of interfering with the mounting of some power meter spiders and the spline flanges have to be tiny which worsens tool engagement. Also since the splines on it run all the way through the flange, it's easier to scratch the frame with the tool during installation. T47-77 is just the advantages and disadvantages of each on their respective sides. All still heavier than BSA.
I am also a T47 hater for these reasons as well. And no problems ever running BB86 either. Whether Shimano 24 or even DUB standard.
Folks shy away from press fit, but a proper bearing tool always gets the job done.
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T47 is not supposed to use 6806 bearings instead of 6805 for BSA which is usefull for SRAM Dub.
Bigger bearings = Long lasting.
Edit : 47 instead of 57, typo error.
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I think you may have had an accident while typing that sentence, but you can get a BSA BB with 6806 no problem
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There are several advantages to internal routing, additional design flexibility with asymmetric designs, etc, which makes T47 attractive. I think the benefits created by having a larger tube are mainly limited to the construction of metal frames and lugged carbon, which is where the T47 originated. It's just a threaded version of PF30.
IME, the bearing size stuff is marginal to the point of being nonsense if the bearing is well sealed. Most people in shops seem to believe that SRAM-branded dub BBs have great longevity, and those that use tiny bearings. Those opposed either claim that they are wearing through a lot of BBs, regardless of size (i.e., something is wrong with the bike or the installer), or are just discussing theory. Long-winded way of saying that the BB standard used wouldn't prevent me from buying a frame.
That said, if you made me king for a day, I would decree that all bikes use T47 or some variant thereof to get us down to 2 types of cups, 1 standard bearing size, and a bunch of reducers. I am not really opposed to BSA either, but realistically, the weight difference is marginal. It's around 20g in a carbon frame, including the BB, and about 50g on a Ti frame.
This XMcarbonspeed frame looks excellent IMO. Geo isn't my cup of tea; nevertheless, I'm looking forward to seeing it built up.
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Bigger bearings = Long lasting.
Yet on 2 bikes with less than 1000 kms on either I had to replace both T47 SRAM DUB BBs both for chewing up bearings. To be fair one was on a gravel bike (internal bearing) that not treated very nicely. The road bike (external bearing) developed a rough spot that did go away when washing out the NDS bearing - I still changed it out though. Moral of story - buy quality bearings if T47 is a MUST. FWIW
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Yet on 2 bikes with less than 1000 kms on either I had to replace both T47 SRAM DUB BBs both for chewing up bearings. To be fair one was on a gravel bike (internal bearing) that not treated very nicely. The road bike (external bearing) developed a rough spot that did go away when washing out the NDS bearing - I still changed it out though. Moral of story - buy quality bearings if T47 is a MUST. FWIW
As I mentioned in CS-R01 thread, avoid SRAM BBs entirely. Since they introduced DUB standard all bearings are exactly same tiny bearings regardless of BB shell. They wear out super quickly if you ride anything that is always dry and not dusty. Consider them only if you are not particularly strong or heavy rider, as they start to deform at power output of ~250W.
In general, I recommend NOT to use DUB/30MM axle in anything smaller than BB30 BB shell
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They wear out super quickly if you ride anything that is always dry and not dusty.
Consider them only if you are not particularly strong or heavy rider, as they start to deform at power output of ~250W.
In general, I recommend NOT to use DUB/30MM axle in anything smaller than BB30 BB shell
"They wear out super quickly if you ride anything that is always dry and not dusty." - I had the opposite experience, in the wet they wore out faster.
"In general, I recommend NOT to use DUB/30MM axle in anything smaller than BB30 BB shell" - I would even argue that DUB should be avoided altogether unless a person plans on using top quality bearings.
"Consider them only if you are not particularly strong or heavy rider, as they start to deform at power output of ~250W." - From personal experience I def agree with this. I had a SuperSix from 2014-2018 (BB30 using a Shimano DA crank) that went through MANY sets of bearings until I installed a Praxis BB and now the same experience with two T47. Even still, at 1100W sprint I can hear and feel a creak and 2 days ago a 60 mile zone 2 gravel ride it was dead silent the whole time.
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"They wear out super quickly if you ride anything that is always dry and not dusty." - I had the opposite experience, in the wet they wore out faster.
Oh well, I meant "unless you ride...". Should have checked what I wrote ::)
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So here are some pictures of the head tube... I'm really not good on taking these pictures - any advice how to take them will be welcome
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BB Area...
And a little update on the build... will be coated with cerakote and gun candy chameleon effect thingy... but will take some weeks...
Groupset: GRX 1x11
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BB Area...
And a little update on the build... will be coated with cerakote and gun candy chameleon effect thingy... but will take some weeks...
Groupset: GRX 1x11
I wish they still made the exterior in a 'weave' Everyone seems to be making their frames UD carbon. Probably saves weight I suppose.
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Can you please post a picture from the front, @rsw42 ? I would like to see the head tube silhouette / frontal area.
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Will do, might take some days...
Is there anything else you would like to see, when I'll unpack it again?
Hopefully it will get its costing next week... Would like to finish it within the next three weeks...
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Can you please post a picture from the front, @rsw42 ? I would like to see the head tube silhouette / frontal area.
Peter sent me this yesterday when I asked him.
I really like the look of it.
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I was hoping to see a nice hour-glass shape. That pretty much sealed the deal for me. Thank you!
I'm actually not looking for endurance geometry, but the the frame has a rather large wheelbase and therefore I should be able to size down and run a 130mm slammed stem and it should ride stable enough (not too front heavy).
Only worried about sitting too far backwards because of the slack STA, and maybe toe overlap (FC is rather short despite long WB).
Is the seatpost size proprietary?
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The left side all the way at the top looks a bit sketchy.
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The left side all the way at the top looks a bit sketchy.
I’m far from an expert but I think this is a completely unfinished frame, so it’s going to look a little rough compared to a ready to purchase frame.
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Hi guys
Can someone post the geometry details for this please... Had a quick look around but couldn't find it
Cheers!
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Was posted by Peter on the other thread...
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How is the build coming along?
Have you ridden this frameset yet?
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No, I'm not allowed to ride anything without a motor due to a turn muscle in my leg...
Also I couldn't do to much for the build so it's just going to be coated within the next days or week ..
Wheels are ready, groupset wide um discussing with myself if I'm going 1x11 GRX or 2x11 GRX Di2...
And I'm starting to rethink my choices for handlebar and stern again 🤣
Too much time obviously...
Sorry for the wait
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No, I'm not allowed to ride anything without a motor due to a turn muscle in my leg...
Also I couldn't do to much for the build so it's just going to be coated within the next days or week ..
Wheels are ready, groupset wide um discussing with myself if I'm going 1x11 GRX or 2x11 GRX Di2...
And I'm starting to rethink my choices for handlebar and stern again 🤣
Too much time obviously...
Sorry for the wait
No worries! I literally just stumbled on this entire forum two days ago so I'm trying to learn as much as I can as quickly as I can.
I have already bought the new SRAM Force group and 9Velo CD Wide wheelset so I'm researching what to pair them to frameset-wise. Lots floating around in my head.
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Hambini went to their booth, carbon was cutted, he liked the quality
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Today at Eurobike I took a close look at the frame and had a long, very interesting conversation with Peter.
The frame was finished in a satin clear coat and looked absolutely stunning. From what I could tell (as a hobby engineer with an eye for detail), the build quality and finish seem top-tier.
One part I found especially intriguing was our discussion about the T47 bottom bracket:
I mentioned that I’ve had some struggles with it in the past, and Peter explained their unique manufacturing process. The bottom bracket shell is embedded directly into the mold like it’s bonded in place, and the threads are then precisely CNC-machined afterward. To me, that sounds like a solid and well-thought-out approach.
Conclusion: I think this frame could be a great fit for an upcoming project.
P.S.: I’ve been working on a few concept designs for this frame, inspired by iconic motorsport liveries – and I’ll be sending them over to Peter.
If anyone’s into this kind of thing or working on something similar, feel free to reach out
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P.S.: I’ve been working on a few concept designs for this frame, inspired by iconic motorsport liveries – and I’ll be sending them over to Peter.
If anyone’s into this kind of thing or working on something similar, feel free to reach out
I dont know much about iconic liveries but love motorsports themes. I'm designing a gloss white and purple polka dot design in my head, thats what I want on my new bike. Any chance for a render from you? I have zero clue how this works lol
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P.S.: I’ve been working on a few concept designs for this frame, inspired by iconic motorsport liveries – and I’ll be sending them over to Peter.
If anyone’s into this kind of thing or working on something similar, feel free to reach out
really nice! Maybe some Gulf or Silk Cut or JPS or 555. Too many good ones out there :D Keep us updated
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If Peter made a race version of this frame I'd be all over it.
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If Peter made a race version of this frame I'd be all over it.
What would be needed for it to be a race version? Do you mean just a racier geometry?
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really nice! Maybe some Gulf or Silk Cut or JPS or 555. Too many good ones out there :D Keep us updated
I'm not a designer and put this together in a pretty hands-on, no-frills way — sorry for that! I just played around a bit and drew some inspiration from Gulf Racing, Marlboro McLaren, and Martini Racing designs. I've already shared a few ideas with Peter. Here's one example — if you end up using it, please be fair and either send Peter my regards from Patrick or just get in touch.
Would love to hear what you think!
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I like the look of this frame but, according to the geometry chart, the standover is really high/there are no small sizes. VeloBuild's new gravel frame has a similar issue. Anyone with a sub 80cm/31.5" inseam is going to struggle to fit this frame. That is probably over half of all people. It seems like the designers forget than when you make the headtube taller or need to accommodate big tires, you have to slope the top tube to keep the standover from getting unreasonably tall.
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I like the look of this frame but, according to the geometry chart, the standover is really high/there are no small sizes. VeloBuild's new gravel frame has a similar issue. Anyone with a sub 80cm/31.5" inseam is going to struggle to fit this frame. That is probably over half of all people. It seems like the designers forget than when you make the headtube taller or need to accommodate big tires, you have to slope the top tube to keep the standover from getting unreasonably tall.
Why does standover matter at all?
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Why does standover matter at all?
maybe less seat post -> less compliance?
but as someone with very short legs, it might also become a problem to get the saddle low enough
hower on the geo chart image the frame looks reasonably sloped
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Why does standover matter at all?
I mean, ideally I'd want to avoid the possibility of racking myself on the top tube. Sure you can slant the bike but imo you shouldn't have to. The reason endurance and gravel bikes have sloped top tubes is specifically to address standover.
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Tiniest little update: cerakote applied... To be continued in August
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Tiniest little update: cerakote applied... To be continued in August
Can you do weigh in once again when it's painted?
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Any news please ?
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I hope to get my Frameset this evening - so updates could come from then on...
Unfortunately due tu injury, timing with the paint-guy everything took ages... now someone tried to break into our cellar and I have no Idea wheter they managed to get to the parts and my tools (or how I could enter the cellar since they've damaged the door and the lock)...
So far it's been pretty doomed... I'll keep you posted as soon as things start to move...
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I hope to get my Frameset this evening - so updates could come from then on...
Unfortunately due tu injury, timing with the paint-guy everything took ages... now someone tried to break into our cellar and I have no Idea wheter they managed to get to the parts and my tools (or how I could enter the cellar since they've damaged the door and the lock)...
So far it's been pretty doomed... I'll keep you posted as soon as things start to move...
Sorry to hear too. Good luck !
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I am really interested in this frame but will have to wait for user reviews. I Hope Peter can have frames painted-i have a studio ghibli inspired paint job in mind with either No Face or the Lapitian Robot on the head tube some sprites here and there and Haku the dragon/boy running down the top tube.
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I specifically asked to get the frame unpainted because I had already a painter lined up around here and I was in a particular hurry…
long story short: he didn‘t paint the frame, my painter also didn‘t so it ended up ceracoted…
If anyone‘s interested: I wouldn‘t recommend…
Here you‘ll finde pictures of the coated parts (weight) - without any hardware (but some masking tape on the frame I found a bit later ;D
And a very first glance on how it probably will look like assembled… (just put it together that far to check for where I have to cut the steerer…)
Since everybody around me is on holidays right now I probably won‘t be able to go any further before the end of next week… Handlebars are at afriend, some other small parts wait to be delivered… And I‘ll be damned if I find out where I‘ve put that damned bottom bracket…
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And a sidenote - Seatpost is extremely tight in the frame… if i‘d have tried it before handing it over to the painter I wouldn‘t have coated it… even though that shouldn‘t be thick enough to be a problem…
So this is the only minus so far… and that i‘ve found out how weak cerakote really is :D
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Ceracoat is a hard ceramic based paint. I believe it’s baked on. Very popular in the US for firearm parts manufacturers and auto parts. Usually, it comes in matte finishes and is supposed to be hard wearing. Popular alternative for coating aluminum pieces instead of anodizing.
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Usually, it comes in matte finishes and is supposed to be hard wearing. Popular alternative for coating aluminum pieces instead of anodizing.
The hard wearing part is an absolute lie...
It's really loved for firearms because it's extremely heat resistant, but it's quite prone to scratches...
Ceramic coatings usually come in 5 to 50 microns, Cerakote is usually below 25 microns without compromising quality...
That's so thin that firearms people usually don't even care to mask screw threads since it's so thin it just doesn't matter...
As for the seatpost: I had a talk to another owner of the bike who had the exact same problem with the seatpost even without painting or coating it ... Even worse than with mine - his seatpost seams to be completely stuck now...
I hope I will not have to change sale height too soon because it's very close to stuck on mine as well...
I just believe that this is one of the weaknesses of this particular frameset...
I know why I love my round seatposts...
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Hello rsw42,
I also ordered a Gt frame from Peter. He also offer XMCS paints jobs now.
I was wondering which BB you ordered, I have trouble finding one that will fit the 85.5mm.
Thanks!
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I've got a Token BB from someone around here, who had gotten the wrong BB with his Winspace.
this one should work with 85.8 and I believe there also was one from Enduro i was looking into...
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Is there a 0mm offset seatpost option?
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Does anybody know if there are plans to release this frame in a larger size?
Unfortunately, the 58 is a bit too small for me.
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Does anybody know if there are plans to release this frame in a larger size?
Unfortunately, the 58 is a bit too small for me.
probably they will not produce larger than 58
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So I finally managed to put together the bike and have a first test ride...
Impressions:
Geometry is way different than any other road bike I've been riding so far - quite upright, feels extremely comfy, but I can still fold into a aero position nicely... Fits me like a glove I'd say...
I know I run quite a pile of spacers at the moment - unfortunately need them due to injury but from my ride yesterday I'm confident that I will be taking out about 10 mm by the end of the year...
The bike feels quite snappy but the upright position gives an impression on beeing high up - will take some time to feel as comfortable going around corners at speed... I guess I'll have to learn cornoring in the drops ;)
Surprisingly positive: No toe overlap whatsoever - actually quite some room (even though my shoe size 48 is quite big for my body size at 183cm)...
Only downside: I'm having a bit of a hard time to get the saddle into the right position - not sure if it's also slipping a bit due to the clamp mechanism... will try again and maybe go for a big pile of carbon gripper... (But actually I believe I didn't torque to spec - the build was going over several weeks)
Long story short: Very lovely ride...
Here's the Parts list of the final bike (and afterwards the thoughts of why I've gone down this route):
Frameset: XM Carbon Speed - size 56
Groupset & Brakes: Shimano GRX Di2 1x11 (Brake calipers might be swapped for 4-pot-brakes later)
Handlebar: Pro Vibe Aero - 420 mm
Stem and Headset: Ritchey Comp Switch (also tried the WCS Switch - could get a neater routing with the Comp Switch)
Chainring: Alugear 40 T Golf Dimple Aero Chainring (might be switched to a bigger ring for the future or switched back and forth according to the planned ride)
Chain: YBN 11s SL
Cassette: ZTTO SLR Gen2 11-46
Still unknown: How on earth will I mount my garmin on this stem/bars combination...? and how can I mount the front light - it keeps on slipping backward on this bars...
So there was a quick discussion and several people suggested that this should be 2x as it is a road bike... I still decided to go 1x as i believe this also fits for Aero reasoning (and that thing looks quite aero). My main thought behind it is, that both my daughters are running the same groupset and if anyone of them might encounter a problem and we need quick remedy for their next races my bike could act as a donor... As for cadence: I'm not really sensitive to finding the "perfect" cadence since I just have too much other issues on bikes at the moment, noticed that I switched two gears more often than just one gear at a time yesterday...
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There you go, hope this pictures help...
For reference: these are 42 cm pro vibe aero bars with quite a thick bar tape...
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That really does look tidy. Nice build. Ride what you want. If 1x works for you and the riding you do then there is no need to change. I only ride 1x 12 here in UK and on trips to Majorca and the Alps etc. it works for me.
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It looks very good — nice build! Have fun with it and enjoy the ride!
The two silver screws on the seat post clamp look unusual and stick out. Is that how they're supposed to be, or is there a problem?
As an idea, I installed the following adapter (https://ritcheylogic.com/bike/stems/universal-stem-mount?srsltid=AfmBOopJc-SLrEJYm2WnAWEZbPpyP2IRxHJ_Sk-M6JUSkqpYRRY72B53 (https://ritcheylogic.com/bike/stems/universal-stem-mount?srsltid=AfmBOopJc-SLrEJYm2WnAWEZbPpyP2IRxHJ_Sk-M6JUSkqpYRRY72B53)) on my Ritchey stem and then installed the head unit and light using a GoPro adapter.
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The two silver screws on the seat post clamp look unusual and stick out. Is that how they're supposed to be, or is there a problem?
The default grub screws are too long. You can simply buy these in size M6x8 to fix it: http://aliexpress.com/item/1005008041466638.html
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Peter just told me all new framestet will have now the proper screw!
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The default grub screws are too long. You can simply buy these in size M6x8 to fix it: http://aliexpress.com/item/1005008041466638.html
Im actually planning to keep it the way it is but 3D-print (or CNC?) a Mount for my lezyne rear light around it... kinda use it as the anchorpoint for that...
But yeah - it felt a bit weird at first...
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This is how it looks with the 3D-printed mount for the Ostro V2. It's not perfect, but it does the job.
I'm still holding back on writing a review, since so far I've only run into problems with my frameset.
Mine is the EuroBike showpiece version, and I'm not sure if these issues exist on the regular production units.
So far, I've had problems with the bottle cage threads, resin damage on the fork, and now a stuck seatpost that makes the bike unusable.
I did buy the frame at a big discount directly at EuroBike and also received some money back from Peter because of the resin damage, but everything is on hold until I can get the seatpost unstuck.
Weights:
Frame (raw matt carbon, no hardware): 997g
Thru Axle Front: 25g
Thru Axle Rear: 35g
FD Mount w/ Bolts: 15g
Fork (uncut): 383g
Seatpost (cut from 400 to 350, w/ 7x9 clamp): 184g
UDH Hanger: 25g
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So far, I've had problems with the bottle cage threads, resin damage on the fork, and now a stuck seatpost that makes the bike unusable.
I did buy the frame at a big discount directly at EuroBike and also received some money back from Peter because of the resin damage, but everything is on hold until I can get the seatpost unstuck.
Makes me really sad that you're experiencing so much problems - Mine seems to be really fine except for also having a stuck seatpost... in my case I was able to stuck it at the exact right height for me... but yeah, the issue is still there... Would be interesting to hear from Peter on that part...
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My seatpost is also roughly at the right height from the initial setup, but I like to make small adjustments and experiment with different saddles.
Saddle rail heights alone can vary by like 5mm, and changing the fore/aft position also affects saddle height. Crank length, shoes, and cleat position - pretty much everything has an effect.
If I can't adjust the saddle height, there's no point in spending more time building this bike. Without that flexibility, it's simply a write-of.
So far I've only tried WD-40 and a hair dryer to get it unstuck. I'll try the boiling water method next. But even if I manage to fix it, how do I prevent it from seizing again? I didn't even use carbon grip paste in the first place.
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Makes me really sad that you're experiencing so much problems - Mine seems to be really fine except for also having a stuck seatpost... in my case I was able to stuck it at the exact right height for me... but yeah, the issue is still there... Would be interesting to hear from Peter on that part...
First generation frames do have a little issues, but we improve those on all new production framesets, like the set screws for the seat post, all standard handlebar with spacers, headset bearings etc.
We made the seat post a bit tight is just some brands make their seat post pretty loose in the seat tube, and that caused many cracks at the connecting point between seat post and seat tube on those brands' frames.
We now make it a little bit looser than your two seat post, but still can't be too loose, otherwise that might cause problem or potential risk.
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Thank you for the reply, Peter. would it be possible to get one of the new seatposts? I'm sure I can get the post unstuck again (even if I'll ruin parts of the paint while doing so, I'd be willing to do that...)
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First generation frames do have a little issues [...]
I understand the challenge of designing and implementing a proper seatpost clamp system, but a stuck seatpost is far from a "little issue".
It makes the bike completely unusable for me.
By the way, I found some "Gran Turismo" decals on aliexpress: http://aliexpress.com/item/1005008157368148.html
Definitely worth a try for 2$.
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Peter already answered... I'll arrange the shipping and forward the second post so only one parcel has to go from xianmen to the EU ;)
for everybody else: will give an update on the new seatpost as soon as it arrives... until then I'll continue riding the GT and will give some updates when I've added some mileage...
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For those who assembled the GT, did you clamp it on the seatpost ? Was it safe to do ? If not how did you manage ?
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For those who assembled the GT, did you clamp it on the seatpost ? Was it safe to do ? If not how did you manage ?
Yes, clamped the seatpost, no problem whatsoever...
Treated it like any other bike (which means "not really careful" in my case)
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Ordered the GT in size 56 from Peter a few weeks back. I got one of the paint jobs mentioned earlier in the thread. It's now ready to ship and Peter sent me over these pictures in case anyone is wondering what the paint would look like. I'll give a report/review when I receive the frame and build it up.
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Ordered mine in a special paint job but the decals are mandatory and under clear coats.
Not a fan of the Revenger logos but itis part of the name of the frame set according to Peter.
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If you want a frameset with a paintjob, logos are mandatory, that's what he told me when I expressed that I would like the frameset painted without qny logos.
but he can still sell you a raw frame with nothing on it.
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If Peter ever offers a more aggressive geo version of this frame I will be all over it.
I actually like the frame decals a lot. Reminds me of X-LAB. I guess I'm becoming one of those fake wannabe pro, coffee shop riders who like logos all over my frames and wheels LoL
Paint job quality looks very good as well.
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I am sure it will grow on me too! The paint job and finish is wonderful. Will post more once it arrives.
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I actually like the frame decals a lot. Reminds me of X-LAB. I guess I'm becoming one of those fake wannabe pro, coffee shop riders who like logos all over my frames and wheels LoL
I'm trying to find the time to create logos close to the brand I like but with the nicknames of my kids and family (Sophuu in the style of Shimano and so on) to replicate the decal style of my CAAD5 Saeco... Love the style...
As for the geometry I'm so glad it's the way it is, that's like almost the max my body can tolerate right now... But I can get really low and aero on that thing, so in total I'll be faster on this than on my team machine... It's horses for courses and I guess you're just way too fit for this lovely steed
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If you want a frameset with a paintjob, logos are mandatory, that's what he told me when I expressed that I would like the frameset painted without qny logos.
but he can still sell you a raw frame with nothing on it.
They're clearly not all mandatory as yours doesn't have one on the fork. Was there a choice in decal colour as matt black would make them much less jarring though I don't mind the XMCS logo. The paint work on both looks great.
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True but I had to ask, for the XMCS and the frame and Revenger /Gran Turismo on the chain stay, he told me they were mandatory but maybe others can work something out!
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I am really liking that green and I was very keen on the frame but sadly not if logos are mandatory. Perhaps if the logos were rainbow effect so they were less prominent.
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Don’t know, the fork and chainstay just look disproportionate. Maybe if they weren’t bold and a little smaller.
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If Peter forced me to get these ugly ass decals, I'd buy another frame.
The only scenario where I'd get that branding is if I didn't pay for the frame in the first place.
Then again I'm wired weird, I'm getting jerseys with a #FREEHARVEY logo across the chest and other stupidities sprinkled throughout.
what do you mean mandatory? You're saying Peter won't sell you a frame WITHOUT logos? That would be a first. I spent thousands on both wheels and frames w him, never had any logo. I dont buy stuff w logos.
Since we are esteblishing our own brand stuff, if some day, people recognize our company/ brand, will you think it is still #FREEHEAVY ？ Why did you get those TRACTOR decals if you don't recognize FACTOR? Yes, you spent thousands dollars on our products, but I offered you discounts on most of your orders, right ? And you know about our GR01 gravel frameset very well, now I am doing my own design frameset, instead of jobs like GR01 frameset, sometimes with full of pains, without any gain.
Haha, just kidding, you guys can go with the frameset unpainted with no decals for sure. But I hope more guys choose them with our logos because of recognizing us, just like those guys order wheels with our logos. I know we are doing the right things, just need more time to make people to accept/ recognize us.
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Since we are esteblishing our own brand stuff, if some day, people recognize our company/ brand, will you think it is still #FREEHEAVY ？ Why did you get those TRACTOR decals if you don't recognize FACTOR? Yes, you spent thousands dollars on our products, but I offered you discounts on most of your orders, right ? And you know about our GR01 gravel frameset very well, now I am doing my own design frameset, instead of jobs like GR01 frameset, sometimes with full of pains, without any gain.
Haha, just kidding, you guys can go with the frameset unpainted with no decals for sure. But I hope more guys choose them with our logos because of recognizing us, just like those guys order wheels with our logos. I know we are doing the right things, just need more time to make people to accept/ recognize us.
You are doing a right thing Peter. Just change the fonts on the logo. It looks to generic. Most Chinese brands have this problem in our eyes, the logos are just to generic. Just look at winspace, velobuild, seraph, lightcarbon - literally each of those companies have horrible generic font logo on a downtube. I firmly believe that a good brand designer could spice thing or two with XMCS and revenger logos to make them look cool.
You have a great brand you just need better branding.
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Don't mind mandatory branding/logos, males sense of your trying to build a company, not a big fan of the decal font though, as others said it's a little too generic, can people pick the decals in different colours Peter?
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You are doing a right thing Peter. Just change the fonts on the logo. It looks to generic. Most Chinese brands have this problem in our eyes, the logos are just to generic. Just look at winspace, velobuild, seraph, lightcarbon - literally each of those companies have horrible generic font logo on a downtube. I firmly believe that a good brand designer could spice thing or two with XMCS and revenger logos to make them look cool.
You have a great brand you just need better branding.
Don't mind mandatory branding/logos, males sense of your trying to build a company, not a big fan of the decal font though, as others said it's a little too generic, can people pick the decals in different colours Peter?
Thank you guys, yes, it's kind of headache, different people wants different colors paint even different colors deccals, we don't want to offer too many options just because we don't want to make it too complicated / confused for paint studio. We will consider to add black color decals as well. And actually the logos font was offered by an EU customer :) It seems not all westerns like same stuff.
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Thank you guys, yes, it's kind of headache, different people wants different colors paint even different colors deccals, we don't want to offer too many options just because we don't want to make it too complicated / confused for paint studio. We will consider to add black color decals as well. And actually the logos font was offered by an EU customer :) It seems not all westerns like same stuff.
Don't talk to a western customer but to a western designer. People who are not designers usually make horrible choices when they have a chance to design anything, there are multiple examples of absolutely horrific custom paint jobs on this forum alone 😁😁😁
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Don't talk to a western customer but to a western designer. People who are not designers usually make horrible choices when they have a chance to design anything, there are multiple examples of absolutely horrific custom paint jobs on this forum alone 😁😁😁
Obviously we don't have any professional western designer then :)
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Branding/decals are important for potential customers who are apprehensive of Far East products.
I am in constant communication with basically every single race organization here in Chicago. From the amateurs, masters, to the elites who race in Europe. You see won't any of these see folks racing their bikes with Chinese consumables unless they have already seen these products being used within the peloton beforehand. Or from influencers like myself who actually race too. Somebody has to be the first in order to validate the performance. Or at least confirm said products aren't a death trap.
Sure Winspace, Tavelo, QuickPro, and No.6 Wheels are subjectively expensive to forum members here. But they are proven products at the competitive level. No one ever asks me about my unbranded frames or wheels. Why would they? But they sure as heck ask me about my bike when there is a humongous holographic "POLYGON" decal along the downtube.
That being said...there should be great care into developing the decals. No generic fonts and no "Ch-english" naming conventions either. To me the decal and font design is more important the intangible branding itself. But I'm no professional designer.
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I also think that building a brand name is desirable and understandable.
Evolve might be a good example where they have a good idea but the slogan is just off putting to so many western costumers.
You won’t get it right for every customer. Scott’s newest branding wasn’t well by all either.
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I appreciate the need to build a brand. I genuinely think a rainbow/ mirror finish option compliments many frame colours and with the right typography has the potential to advertise the brand successfully.
I appreciate the attached example below would look better of it said Tractor :)
I love everything about this frame colour- beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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I appreciate the need to build a brand. I genuinely think a rainbow/ mirror finish option compliments many frame colours and with the right typography has the potential to advertise the brand successfully.
I appreciate the attached example below would look better of it said Tractor :)
I love everything about this frame colour- beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
I truly believe if Peter could get a font that is somewhat different and just do it in Black, White and Chrome or mirror finish would work on just about any color bike. They could choose one of those 3-4 options. JMO. Just need a font or modified font to get this rolling.
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That being said...there should be great care into developing the decals. No generic fonts and no "Ch-english" naming conventions either. To me the decal and font design is more important the intangible branding itself. But I'm no professional designer.
See, this is the problem I see with the current design. "XMCS" is awesome -- "REVENGER" is not. It is worth consulting with a native English speaker, ideally someone with a background in brand consulting or ad copy or at least some sort of comms/editorial capacity to establish or verify at least that the language use is sensible and projects the intended vibe/ethos. REVENGER really puts me off what I find to be an attractive bike, whereas XMCS, especially with the growing praise and commendation for Xiamen Carbon Speed, is cool.
Revenger isn't a word; "Venge" works in part because it is using just a sort of internal morpheme or syllable of "Avenger" or "Revenge." What's more, "Revenger" comes off as a rip of "Venge," not an homage, whereas the frame itself is original and interesting in its own right.
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This is exactly how I feel
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I truly believe if Peter could get a font that is somewhat different and just do it in Black, White and Chrome or mirror finish would work on just about any color bike. They could choose one of those 3-4 options. JMO. Just need a font or modified font to get this rolling.
I agree. Chrome/Holographic/Mirror downtube decal would be my first choice. It goes with everything.
See, this is the problem I see with the current design. "XMCS" is awesome -- "REVENGER" is not.
"Venge" works in part because it is using just a sort of internal morpheme or syllable of "Avenger" or "Revenge."
I also agree with this. A bit of brand consulting will go a long way. I'm excited for Peter's roadmap going into 2026. With just the right branding and scaling to deal with Western folks in a wider scope, XMCS will easily fill the void that was once occupied by Winspace and Yoeleo 3-4 years ago. And I'd argue Peter will provide a better experience.
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I agree. Chrome/Holographic/Mirror downtube decal would be my first choice. It goes with everything.
I also agree with this. A bit of brand consulting will go a long way. I'm excited for Peter's roadmap going into 2026. With just the right branding and scaling to deal with Western folks in a wider scope, XMCS will easily fill the void that was once occupied by Winspace and Yoeleo 3-4 years ago. And I'd argue Peter will provide a better experience.
Agree with all you said. I think most here want Peter and XMCS to succeed and do well!!
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I really like the small wheel logos but wouldn't want the large ones but I appreciate some people do. It's shame "Gran Tourismo" has already been used for a bike as from a western perspective it describes exactly this bikes intended use and is a much better name than Revenger. The main downtube logos to my view would look better with less spacing between the letters.
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Obviously we don't have any professional western designer then :)
Obviously you don't. I gave you few good advices but if you wanna play stupid that's your choice.good luck with the brand.
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It doesn’t need much tweaking to make the logo look good.
Still not sure on the revenger bit, but the main logo looks good when bolder and closer together.
(https://i.ibb.co/35Gqzdkd/IMG-0823.jpg)
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Here are more photos of the frame !
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Also the size and GT indicator is just way too prominent
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It doesn’t need much tweaking to make the logo look good.
Still not sure on the revenger bit, but the main logo looks good when bolder and closer together.
(https://i.ibb.co/35Gqzdkd/IMG-0823.jpg)
These decals look amazing in comparison imo, especially the XMCS part, maybe have the secondary (revenger and gt) in a smaller font
One thing id keep in mind is that many people here love the customization potential of purchasing a Chinese frame/wheels, getting it exactly as they want it, I know for me it's a huge draw even if the cost is increased because of it, my advice is to try to cater to that as much as feasible.
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I currently ride a non-branded velobuild. I could ride this frame with the XMCS logo though, but I would opt out the other decals on the chain stays and top tube.
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I currently ride a non-branded velobuild. I could ride this frame with the XMCS logo though, but I would opt out the other decals on the chain stays and top tube.
I fully agree, I specifically chose this frame because I think the simple looks are superior to designs of many other chinese manufacturers like Winspace, Lightcarbon, Elves, etc.. I'm okay with branding done right (e.g. seka) as long as it is somewhat minimal and not plastered all over (e.g. elves). However, the "Revenger" decal is enough to put me of this frame. I understand the desire for brand recognition but I think there has to be a solution inbetween the new design and the old approach. While I don't love the current XMCS font, I think the XMSC decal does look kind of cool, especially with the holographic design some people suggested here.. I hope you reconsider parts of this design and name, because the frame geometry is awesome.
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I fully agree, I specifically chose this frame because I think the simple looks are superior to designs of many other chinese manufacturers like Winspace, Lightcarbon, Elves, etc.. I'm okay with branding done right (e.g. seka) as long as it is somewhat minimal and not plastered all over (e.g. elves). However, the "Revenger" decal is enough to put me of this frame. I understand the desire for brand recognition but I think there has to be a solution inbetween the new design and the old approach. While I don't love the current XMCS font, I think the XMSC decal does look kind of cool, especially with the holographic design some people suggested here.. I hope you reconsider parts of this design and name, because the frame geometry is awesome.
I'm liking this mirror finish decal more and more.
Comparing the geometry to my VBR068 with my limited knowledge the XMCS seems to be the better option, also in 56. Im 185 with 88cm inseam.
I could use a bit shorter reach. I'm on a 90mm stem and also my toseek handlebar has 10mm more reach than normal I think. I have like 45mm of spacers.
I wish to build a disc brake bike before I invest in new wheels, but for 1500USD the frame better be real good ;) I dont plan to use wider tires than 28 or 30mm.
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I fully agree, I specifically chose this frame because I think the simple looks are superior to designs of many other chinese manufacturers like Winspace, Lightcarbon, Elves, etc.. I'm okay with branding done right (e.g. seka) as long as it is somewhat minimal and not plastered all over (e.g. elves). However, the "Revenger" decal is enough to put me of this frame. I understand the desire for brand recognition but I think there has to be a solution inbetween the new design and the old approach. While I don't love the current XMCS font, I think the XMSC decal does look kind of cool, especially with the holographic design some people suggested here.. I hope you reconsider parts of this design and name, because the frame geometry is awesome.
You can customize paint and decals as you wish. It's OEM. It is mat black as default.
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Here's another issue I ran into with the frameset: some brake rotors can rub against the mounting points if they're not completely flat.
It took me quite a while to figure this out, since the brakes won't rub in the bike stand, but they do once you're actually riding.
The rubbing also doesn't happen all the time and it's more noticeable when putting power down, so I kept going back and forth between suspecting the brakes or the crankset as the cause.
If you're running flat disc rotors (e.g. Galfers), you should be fine.
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You can customize paint and decals as you wish. It's OEM. It is mat black as default.
Earlier in this thread it was mentioned, that decals are mandatory for finished frames
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Here's another issue I ran into with the frameset: some brake rotors can rub against the mounting points if they're not completely flat.
It took me quite a while to figure this out, since the brakes won't rub in the bike stand, but they do once you're actually riding.
The rubbing also doesn't happen all the time and it's more noticeable when putting power down, so I kept going back and forth between suspecting the brakes or the crankset as the cause.
If you're running flat disc rotors (e.g. Galfers), you should be fine.
Do you know (by experience?) if Shimano 105 rotors would face this issue ?
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What discs are you running?
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I've only used rotors from Chaser and Galfer.
If your disc rotor has a "spider" design that isn't perfectly flush with the brake area, it can cause rubbing.
It might also depend on other factors, like how much the rear chainstays can flex under load (weight, etc.).
The bolts on 6-bolt rotors could also be problematic, but honestly, I'm not even sure, if they would face in that direction (only ever used centerlock).
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Do you know (by experience?) if Shimano 105 rotors would face this issue ?
I mounted some Shimano Rotors - no issues whatsoever... even though they are also floating rotors...
It's definitely not 105 rotors!
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What discs are you running?
Stock disc Shimano 105 SLX SM-RT70 CENTER LOCK
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Do you know (by experience?) if Shimano 105 rotors would face this issue ?
If you mount the rotor correctly flat, then no issue.
On current Gran Turismo frameset, we will remove all decals except the XMCS or CARBON SPEED on downtube for now. After we get our US trademark approved, we will figure out more western design.
We are designing 2026 road racing frameset as well, which would be released in April 2026 I think.
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I think carbon speed has potential from marketing point of view.
Personally for bike “naming” I like the F1 style approach, like PX (for the designer) GT (model) 25 (year), could be PX-25/GT
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If you mount the rotor correctly flat, then no issue.
On current Gran Turismo frameset, we will remove all decals except the XMCS or CARBON SPEED on downtube for now. After we get our US trademark approved, we will figure out more western design.
We are designing 2026 road racing frameset as well, which would be released in April 2026 I think.
Hi Peter, While you are waiting can you provide mirror or some of the other decal finishes assuggested? See my post above for a pictorial example. Hopefully that wouldnt be too difficult or time consuming.
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If you mount the rotor correctly flat, then no issue.
On current Gran Turismo frameset, we will remove all decals except the XMCS or CARBON SPEED on downtube for now. After we get our US trademark approved, we will figure out more western design.
We are designing 2026 road racing frameset as well, which would be released in April 2026 I think.
That's good to hear!
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If you mount the rotor correctly flat, then no issue.
On current Gran Turismo frameset, we will remove all decals except the XMCS or CARBON SPEED on downtube for now. After we get our US trademark approved, we will figure out more western design.
We are designing 2026 road racing frameset as well, which would be released in April 2026 I think.
I honestly dont dislike the XMCS branding on the downtube if it looked like the one bsharp77 posted.
Else I would prefer a matte black no decal bike and do the paint at a later time.
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I honestly dont dislike the XMCS branding on the downtube if it looked like the one bsharp77 posted.
Else I would prefer a matte black no decal bike and do the paint at a later time.
Just to note I mocked this up to see what it would look like and maybe help some potential buyers visualise what had been asked for a couple of times through the thread.
I personally think the adjusted main logo looks great and should be easy for Peter and his team to replicate should anyone wish to have it.
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Hambini Reaming Inbound Potentially or had Peter sent him a factory special frame 😉 😆
https://youtube.com/shorts/zt2oReDaya4?si=yQCQfKWRMZWN5HcS
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Just to note I mocked this up to see what it would look like and maybe help some potential buyers visualise what had been asked for a couple of times through the thread.
I personally think the adjusted main logo looks great and should be easy for Peter and his team to replicate should anyone wish to have it.
Where is your mock up? I must have missed it?
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Hambini Reaming Inbound Potentially or had Peter sent him a factory special frame 😉 😆
https://youtube.com/shorts/zt2oReDaya4?si=yQCQfKWRMZWN5HcS
Hambini says that it is the futur Winspace. I hope not 😂😂😂.
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(https://i.ibb.co/35Gqzdkd/IMG-0823.jpg)
This is a photo of Dewa6975’s frame that I downloaded and adapted the logo on to make it look thicker and in a mirror silver finish to try and help some users visualise what could be done quite easily to make the frame look a lot better (to my eye anyway).
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(https://i.ibb.co/35Gqzdkd/IMG-0823.jpg)
This is a photo of Dewa6975’s frame that I downloaded and adapted the logo on to make it look thicker and in a mirror silver finish to try and help some users visualise what could be done quite easily to make the frame look a lot better (to my eye anyway).
Thanks. So good is didn’t know it wasn’t really like that.
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I’m waiting for the racing farne there developing.
Also those decals and mock ups above look much better might be a good shout to maybe lean the XMCS more to the right
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Hambini Reaming Inbound Potentially or had Peter sent him a factory special frame 😉 😆
https://youtube.com/shorts/zt2oReDaya4?si=yQCQfKWRMZWN5HcS
Any company who sends him or any other youtuber special items must be stupid, why? For more after sales warranty issues? So, no need to do that, always randomly to pick up any items before shipping, like the wheels I sent to Patrick last year, if I sent him special pair wheels at that time, maybe now we got many after sales problems to take care, we are not that intentional and not that silly.
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Hambini says that it is the futur Winspace. I hope not 😂😂😂.
Of course not, we care more about the quality and service, not professional on marketing, and my business rules are totally different from them.
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Any company who sends him or any other youtuber special items must be stupid, why? For more after sales warranty issues? So, no need to do that, always randomly to pick up any items before shipping, like the wheels I sent to Patrick last year, if I sent him special pair wheels at that time, maybe now we got many after sales problems to take care, we aren't not that intentional and not that silly.
Not meaning to cause offence peter it’s a joke
British sense of humor!
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I've finally managed to put in some decent mileage over the past few weeks, so I'm able to write a short review of the bike.
This is the third bike I've built this year, so I'll mainly be comparing it with my other builds and focusing on geometry details.
I had my eye on this frameset even before EuroBike, but initially crossed it off my list after running some calculations based on the geometry.
However, after seeing it in person and with Peter offering me a generous discount, I couldn't resist and took the frame home.
Fun fact: I even got caught in the act in this YouTube video (https://youtu.be/4aRrWVxKaZ8?t=268) by forum member zealot128 at the XMCS booth.
Meeting everyone was a fun experience, and I definitely recommend visiting EuroBike.
With every new bike, I try to learn a bit more about bike geometry in my quest for the perfect frame.
This year, I've been mainly riding the Factor Ostro V2 in size 58, which has the same wheelbase length but a very different composition - making comparisons particularly interesting.
The standout feature of the GT is its massive 422mm chainstay length. For context, the Ostro's chainstays are 14mm shorter. This gives the GT incredible stability when descending or riding over 60 km/h.
On paper, you might expect this to compromise agility, but in reality, it's still very flickable and corners exceptionally well.
I would even argue that it feels more playful than the Ostro. However, part of that might be due to running the GT slammed with a stack about 2cm lower than the Ostro.
Climbing and going out of the saddle feel great as well. On some setups, I sometimes get out of sync when going out of the saddle, but that never happened with the GT.
It feels intuitive and responds exactly as expected. As for stiffness and comfort, I honestly can't tell much difference compared to the Ostro. Nothing stands out in either direction.
On the downside, the long chainstay doesn't really improve rear tire clearance, which is limited to around 35mm if you want 4mm of clearance on each side.
The tire makes contact with the chainstay before the seatpost, so there's always going to be a noticeable gap.
Another downside is the relatively short front end, causing toe overlap with 30C+ tires for me. It's not a huge issue, but it's something to keep in mind.
The biggest personal issue for me is the slack seat tube angle (73°) combined with the setback seatpost. Even with the shortest saddle, I can't move my position as far forward as I'd like.
This was initially why I crossed the bike off my list. I tried convincing myself it wouldn't be a big deal, but I remain very aware of it on every ride.
This is the main reason I probably won't be happy riding this bike long-term and am already considering replacing it with the Intropy Speedster.
So for anyone in Germany interested, this one may be up for sale at a heavily discounted price once I move the parts to the new build - so HMU.
My build includes a mix of high-end and premium Chinese components:
- SRAM E1 Red/Force XPLR 1x13
- XMCS 40/50 Wheelset with 30C GP5K STR (32C in future)
- Black Inc Aero 120/380 Cockpit (custom 3D-printed bearing cover)
- Leese 165mm crank with ArcRayo PM and 52T PassQuest chainring
- Kinan Kore Ti Pedals
- Arundle Mandible bottle cages (clones)
- SLT-style headset bearings from kugellager-shop
- Custom Garmin Varia 3D-printed frame mount
- Rainbow Ti-bolts throughout
As mentioned in previous posts, I found some "Gran Tourismo" stickers on AliExpress and also added a random Black Inc decal on the headtube that I had lying around from a wheelset to make the bike look less empty.
Bonus Fact: the exact same build of the Ostro would have been 93g lighter on the GT.
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Hi there Pete!
I cannot find a link to have a look at the GT frame with specs etc
Could you provide one please? So many pages in this thread already!
Love my 65mm Wide T1100 wheelset by the way!!
If you mount the rotor correctly flat, then no issue.
On current Gran Turismo frameset, we will remove all decals except the XMCS or CARBON SPEED on downtube for now. After we get our US trademark approved, we will figure out more western design.
We are designing 2026 road racing frameset as well, which would be released in April 2026 I think.
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Hi there Pete!
I cannot find a link to have a look at the GT frame with specs etc
Could you provide one please? So many pages in this thread already!
Love my 65mm Wide T1100 wheelset by the way!!
Thanks a lot. You can see the geometry details here:
https://www.instagram.com/share/p/_mBQ4qyWQ
The weight is for the size unpaited though, since we upgrade the layups.
I've finally managed to put in some decent mileage over the past few weeks, so I'm able to write a short review of the bike.
This is the third bike I've built this year, so I'll mainly be comparing it with my other builds and focusing on geometry details.
I had my eye on this frameset even before EuroBike, but initially crossed it off my list after running some calculations based on the geometry.
However, after seeing it in person and with Peter offering me a generous discount, I couldn't resist and took the frame home.
Fun fact: I even got caught in the act in this YouTube video (https://youtu.be/4aRrWVxKaZ8?t=268) by forum member zealot128 at the XMCS booth.
Meeting everyone was a fun experience, and I definitely recommend visiting EuroBike.
With every new bike, I try to learn a bit more about bike geometry in my quest for the perfect frame.
This year, I've been mainly riding the Factor Ostro V2 in size 58, which has the same wheelbase length but a very different composition - making comparisons particularly interesting.
The standout feature of the GT is its massive 422mm chainstay length. For context, the Ostro's chainstays are 14mm shorter. This gives the GT incredible stability when descending or riding over 60 km/h.
On paper, you might expect this to compromise agility, but in reality, it's still very flickable and corners exceptionally well.
I would even argue that it feels more playful than the Ostro. However, part of that might be due to running the GT slammed with a stack about 2cm lower than the Ostro.
Climbing and going out of the saddle feel great as well. On some setups, I sometimes get out of sync when going out of the saddle, but that never happened with the GT.
It feels intuitive and responds exactly as expected. As for stiffness and comfort, I honestly can't tell much difference compared to the Ostro. Nothing stands out in either direction.
On the downside, the long chainstay doesn't really improve rear tire clearance, which is limited to around 35mm if you want 4mm of clearance on each side.
The tire makes contact with the chainstay before the seatpost, so there's always going to be a noticeable gap.
Another downside is the wheelbase composition: the front end is relatively short, causing toe overlap with 30C+ tires for me. It's not a huge issue, but it's something to keep in mind.
The biggest personal issue for me is the slack seat tube angle (73°) combined with the setback seatpost. Even with the shortest saddle, I can't move my position as far forward as I'd like.
This was initially why I crossed the bike off my list. I tried convincing myself it wouldn't be a big deal, but I remain very aware of it on every ride.
This is the main reason I probably won't be happy riding this bike long-term and am already considering replacing it with the Intropy Speedster.
So for anyone in Germany interested, this one may be up for sale at a heavily discounted price once I move the parts to the new build - so HMU.
My build includes a mix of high-end and premium Chinese components:
- SRAM E1 Red/Force XPLR 1x13
- XMCS 40/50 Wheelset with 30C GP5K STR (32C in future)
- Black Inc Aero 120/380 Cockpit (custom 3D-printed bearing cover)
- Leese 165mm crank with ArcRayo PM and 52T PassQuest chainring
- Kinan Kore Ti Pedals
- Arundle Mandible bottle cages (clones)
- SLT-style headset bearings from kugellager-shop
- Custom Garmin Varia 3D-printed frame mount
- Rainbow Ti-bolts throughout
As mentioned in previous posts, I found some "Gran Tourismo" stickers on AliExpress and also added a random Black Inc decal on the headtube that I had lying around from a wheelset to make the bike look less empty.
Bonus Fact: the exact same build of the Ostro would have been 93g lighter on the GT.
Thanks for your review, as I said, your frame is the first Gen, and sorry about the downside feeling, we has improved some details, and we are going to revise current seat post to 15mm offset two points clamps design. And we will add an 0 offset seat post with two clamps design as well.
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The biggest personal issue for me is the slack seat tube angle (73°) combined with the setback seatpost. Even with the shortest saddle, I can't move my position as far forward as I'd like.
Interesting -- What is the saddle setback in the setup in the pictures? 100mm ish? It looks pretty close to the bottom bracket but still far from the UCI limit, and you did have to fully slam it forward on the rails to get there...
And we will add an 0 offset seat post with two clamps design as well.
Would the 0mm offset seatpost mentioned by Peter fix the issue? Seems like that would be enough to get you fully over the BB
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Interesting -- What is the saddle setback in the setup in the pictures? 100mm ish? It looks pretty close to the bottom bracket but still far from the UCI limit, and you did have to fully slam it forward on the rails to get there...
Would the 0mm offset seatpost mentioned by Peter fix the issue? Seems like that would be enough to get you fully over the BB
I never measured the actual setback. I've been running the same saddle on the Ostro with a custom seatpost that allows -3mm setback almost all the way forward. So even with a zero-setback seatpost, I'm always going to be about 1cm short on the GT.
Please note that the picture of both bikes is from yesterday, after I sold my Ostro and the saddle had already been set up for the new owner. I also want to point out that my riding position is rather extreme, so this issue is very personal. The 73° STA isn't even considered slack by today's standards. The new standard for aero bikes in size 56/58 seems to be around 73.5°, but even the current Dogma F still uses 73°.
Despite the issues I had with the frameset, it was always a pleasure dealing with Peter. I also want to mention that I paid via PayPal F&F and received a partial refund a month later, with no obligation to do so.
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The frame looks better in those pictures than any others i have seen. Love the front of the bike.
Do you run your cleats forward/mid/rear? Having progressed to small frames in recent years i now run cleats rear for fit and to mitigate toe overlap.
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@voidptr
Thank you very much for this detailed review!
As I’ve been saving money for a new frameset I’ve been 95% sure the Grand Turismo is the one, but a small part of me is intrigued by the fake Ostro.
Knowing this and the quality of work Peter does this has solidified my decision on this frame.
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The complete bike looks excellent @voidptr . Makes me really look forward to the "race" version next year.
A two bolt saddle clamp design is much preferred in my opinion. It's much easier to make saddle pitch adjustments on the road without having to completely loosen a single bolt.
I'm 6 feet tall / 183cm. The majority of my road bikes have a seat tube angle of 73.5°. My saddle setback hovers around 9mm. Down from a whopping 10mm :o, 170mm length cranks, and a saddle height of around 78cm center to center. Selle Italia SLR Boost S3 on all my bikes.
My Tavelo Arow has a slacker 73° seat tube angle which forces me to run the saddle forward on the rails with only a 1cm of fore to play with. To be fair the seatpost as a 15mm setback. It works just fine for my bike fit. Would like to see 73.5° on the future GT frameset.
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The frame looks better in those pictures than any others i have seen. Love the front of the bike.
Do you run your cleats forward/mid/rear? Having progressed to small frames in recent years i now run cleats rear for fit and to mitigate toe overlap.
bikeinsights.com calculates the "tire to pedal spindle" measurement, which can be really helpful for figuring out whether you'll experience toe overlap.
My cleats are moved all the way to the back. Again, very much a personal preference, but over the past few years of watching countless bike fitting videos, I've noticed that a lower saddle height + forward saddle + cleats to the back + 165mm cranks seems to work extremely well for most riders. It almost feels like a universal bike-fit cure for a lot of issues.
I'm also about to place an order for 3D-printed shoes from Hezo, where I'll ask them to place the cleat holes as far back as possible to really figure out my true limit.
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I find your comments quite surprising guys; as I've understood from the original thread, Peter developed that frame specifically to answer the ask for an "aero looking" frame but with relaxed/endurance geometry.
We can't ask for greater ST angle then, it would contradict the purpose of a "gran tourismo" frame IMO.
Anyway, thanks for the pictures. I find the frame to be sublime.
I'm definitely attracted, and i may get one for myself. Still kind of scared about the super long chainstay tho. Price being pretty steep, I don't want to take the risk of a having a boring bike to ride. Waiting for more reviews, or maybe a first idea of XMCS 2026 race bike. And also for Peter to clarify what's up with the paint job, it is confusing. No logo and customization at the end might be one of the greater feature of chinese bikes imo...
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I'm a retired graphic designer Peter, and have gone all in on buying, building and riding bicycles in my retirement. That said. I'll work for beer, and since you can't send me beer. I'll work for a frame.
Coming up with the right logotype is essential for a brand. Invest early, get it right, because you're going to end up putting that brand on EVERYTHING; from business cards, to frames, cars and building signage, in advertisements and so on.
Some of my typographic logos are attached. It's NOT about just choosing a font. It's about customising a standard font to make it your own (which then prevents other people simply finding your font and using it and looking like your brand).
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Got my frame in the mail this week, built it up and took it out for the first ride. I built it up with SRAM red XPLR and XMCS bars.
The build process was the smoothest I've had for a Chinese frame so far. Others I've built up are: Speeder SC-55RD, Onirii One, Velobuild AreoGrav, and a Yoeleo rim brake frame a while back. In general the parts included were just slightly higher quality than most. The headset bearings come in their CEMA box, the expander plug seems nicer than others I've gotten and the thru axles are on the lighter end compared to others (I think they weigh the same as the Onirii and 10g less than Speeder, not that 10g matters but to me indicates they are paying attention to details).
The only issue with the frame I had was super minor. The drive side of the bottom bracket was very difficult to get the threads engaged. It would have been really easy to cross thread if I just forced it. Once the first few threads engaged it went in smooth. The other side went in butter smooth, so not sure what the problem was. Fork has the brake cable come out on the left hand side, which is good for routing the non-UK way but might be annoying if you want your front brake on the right (I assume there isn't an alternate fork). Brake mounts seemed faced and aligning the capipers was slightly harder than the Speeder but easier than everything else, including my old Canyon Aeroad.
Handle bars so far seem great. Super stiff. Geometry seems good and they now have those little bumps on the tops for grip and a nice XMCS logo in front.
I've only ridden it for 30 miles so far so can't give a complete opinion on the ride feel, but will say general impressions. Compared to the Speeder and Aeroad it is way less harsh and much smoother. It also feels a bit smoother than the Velobuild AeroGrav. Compared to the Onirii it's similarly comfortable but feels much stiffer. The Onirii is a bit of a noodle and this bike is not. In terms of handling, for me it's the best I've had. It's not twitchy or super racy but it I would and will race a crit on it and I won't be wanting for more. For me it handles like the like the Canyon but less twitch and more stable. The speeder for me just doesn't handle well because I have to add a ton of spacers + positive angle stem so it's feels unstable. In terms of stiffness/repesponsiveness I haven't really done any sprinting to test but it feels rock solid. On the flat/downhill it feels a bit more sluggish than the Aeroad and Speeder, probably the longer chainstays. Uphill it feels really good out of the saddle. Just seems to go when you put the power down. That's probably due to it being lighter but just as stiff in the rear compared to my old Canyon.
To summarize: to me it feels like the Aeroad but more comfortable, lighter, more stable, and a tad less twitchy. Once I put some more miles I can give more in depth opinions. This is just based on one ride so subject to change, but I really like the bike so far
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Just a couple of logo concepts. Let me know what you guys think!
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That second one is pretty nice!
What is the story the logo is saying, I don’t get it
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I am also working on first version, already working on a second one based on some friends feedback.
would be happy to read yours too!
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Hi everyone, it’s time for my „Longer“ time review. I haven’t put too much mileage into the bike. Currently I’m riding it back to back with my cyclocross-bike, so this is my most recent comparison.
Please keep in mind that my frameset was the very first leaving XMCS and I knew that it might have some issues. With all issues I had Peter was really helpful and I do believe that my feedback went into the further development of the frame.
Quality and problems: As said before I encountered some problems with the seatpost. According to Peter this is a problem of the first gen frameset and is sorted out – I’ll get a new seatpost so there might be an update on that issue… If I’m trying to put it positive: with my particular frameset there isn’t even a hint of seatpost slippage, no matter how much weight I put on top of that (and I've had severe Issues with other bikes in the past - especially my Cannondale Slice that almost that I had to fix with some soda cans). Other than that I was really impressed with the quality I’ve seen. Compared to the other carbon frames in my family (BMC, Ridley, Felt, Scott, Focus) the XMCS GT frameset qualitywise was up there with everyone else. I’d even go so far that it exceeded the Scott and the Ridleys, equals with the Felt. The Focus is a XC-Bike so I’m not too sure about how to compare them – but yeah, my daughter’s Focus Raven will stay my personal benchmark for quality.
It's hard for me to put a finger on what actually was superior on the Raven, because at every point where I’d compare the frames (bearing seats, threads etc) they came up almost equally nice. The two distinct differences are: the seatpost (27.2 round and not stuck on the focus) and that the Focus has internal cabling completely guided (with small carbon tubes) and provides cable exits on the down tube)
Build process: The process was as straight forward as it gets. Every further problems (aside from the seatpost) was due to the components I've chosen, not due to the frame (I hate that Pro aero handlebars…). Screw threads were all completely fine (please keep in mind that my framset wasn’t painted, so I wouldn’t have encountered problems with paint overspray damaging threads – what I believe might have been the problem with bfish’s bottom bracket threads)
Internal cable routing was as straight forward as it gets if it's not guided as it is on the Focus Raven, bearing seats where fine and everything came together quite smooth and easily. The clamp for the Di2-Battery is incredible and probably one of the little things that shows how much thought went into this bike… love it!
Geometry and ride feel: now there was some discussion about the geometry, so I have to state one thing right in the beginning. I am the actual target audience. I came aware of this frame due to the “low reach high stack aero” thread when I actually googled for exactly that. Due to some medical conditions I gained a lot of weight and lost a lot of mobility (hips etc). I’m not the youngest anymore and I need a bike that gives me the opportunity to get into an aero position, even though my body isn’t to bendy.
And in that respect the frameset delivers. I can get into a “low” aero position and keep it for longer periods, than on the BMC or my CX bike. I’m able to ride a longer stem (110mm) compared to any other bike I own, even though I still have quite some spacers left to raise the front. The “long” stem helps to get handling very sharp and controlled to the other bikes, and I just don’t notice that the rear triangle might be longer as discussed by voidptr.
I stated in earlier reviews that the bike feels weirdly high to me – and it still does (especially compared to my CX-bike) – but I figured out that this is because I had to switch to 150mm cranks earlier this year. I also switched the cranks on my BMC but since I stopped riding this before injury and therefore there were some months between this and the GT frameset, so I went directly back to the weird sensation I had on the BMC in the beginning. Switching to and from the CX bike with 170mm cranks the GT framset feels extremely high up and this gives me some trust issues with going into corners quickly. I guess that will change the moment I’ll switch the CX to 150mm cranks as well.
As for sizes there might be one gripe: I’d love to have an even smaller size, thinking about very small people.
The look: I've attached to pictures of me riding the bike. The frame looks aero. It looks great. I love it. The screws of the seatpost clamp are changed by now (but I still want to 3d print a carrier for my rear light, this is why I rode the screws like in the pictures for quite a while). Under me it looks ridiculously tiny. Well every bike does since I’m 183 cm and well over 100kg. I still like it. I don’t have too look at it with a Gorilla (me) sitting on top of it too often 😊.
Things I don’t like: As much as I love the bike there’s some things I really don’t like and I hope Peter and XMCS will think about for future bikes (or future iterations of the GT frameset). Most of the gripes don’t actually come from my bike, but from having two kids racing bikes (while growing rapidly).
Seatpost: I’d prefer 27.2 mm round seatposts. My bigger one is on her 2nd seatpost on her current bike, because I had to cut the first one so It’ll go futher into the frame before hitting the bottle cage bosses. One year later the (new) seatpost is 10cm out of the frame and next year I guess we’ll have 5 more cm showing. So for switching around stuff I prefer to be able to just get some more ElitaOne seatposts and be able to exchange quickly between the bikes if necessary. Further: the problem with the stuck seatpost, the seat clamp (one bolt) and that there’s only a setback version all has been discussed and is (going to be) changed by XMCS.
Internal cables only: Yes I know this is an aero bike and of course the cables are supposed to be internal for aero reasons. Yet I absolutely hate going through the headset, stem and the handlebars. While it’s a pain in the back for me (since I’ll have to change the stem and suddenly have to completely change the brake hoses) it’s a absolute no go for the bikes of my kids. I’d love to get them the race frame if it lives up to the standard of my GT frame, but with internal cable routing I just wont go down that route. I’d love to have the option to get the cables and hoses out of the NDS-down tube. My big one grew in her stem length for 4cm and reduced stem height (spacers and turned around stem) by about 3cm during the last 12 months – some because of growing, some because of fitness and skills. So for kids racing internal routing is not an option for my team. I’d love to have the option when ordering or just have a port on the NDS that could be closed up nicely – please Peter consider that for the race frame!
And yes, I do realize that this is less of a problem with wireless groupsets coming up, but to me the rear hose is the deal braker. I don’t want to find a way to stick 10cm excessive hose in the frame since I might need it in the future (could be noisy) and I don’t want to throw the complete hose everytime I have to change something on the setup because I have to cut some centimeters away every time I want to disconnect and reconnect the hose.
Used standards: That’s not so much things I don’t like but things discussed here or around me. Bottom Bracket: T47i is stiffer and more aero than T47ext so to me that’s the obvious choice of those two. But some people have asked for some pressfit standard (especially for the upcoming race frame). Pressfit might be lighter, but with internal routing I’m happy for a threaded version. So I’m on board with that one.
The other thing is the UDH. I like the idea of unification, for some reason I just never grew fond with UDH. To me it feels heavy, clunky and I’ve just had nicer things on other bikes. But I wouldn’t know anything I’d rather have, so I guess it’s okay the way it is…
Disc diameter restrictions: I know there’s not many people sharing that, but being as big as I am (and switching parts between several bikes including MTBs) I’d love to have the opportunity to fit even bigger rotors – 180mm up front. I actually feel that this would fit the target audience (people not being fit enough to ride a long and low race bike) quite well.
So with all of that said, here's my ultimate conclusion:
Would I buy again? YES!
What would I do differently: Cockpit, paintjob (no more cerakote for me). That’s it.
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Unqualified post : looks like you’re riding your kids bike. May be due to the angle.
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Unqualified post : looks like you’re riding your kids bike. May be due to the angle.
Under me it looks ridiculously tiny. Well every bike does since I’m 183 cm and well over 100kg. I still like it. I don’t have too look at it with a Gorilla (me) sitting on top of it too often 😊.
I'm afraid it would take a campervan underneath my wide back if I wouldn't want it to look like a kids bike... You should se me on top of my 90ies Cannondale CAAD5 Saeco... looks like I'm riding some toothpicks
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I'm afraid it would take a campervan underneath my wide back if I wouldn't want it to look like a kids bike... You should se me on top of my 90ies Cannondale CAAD5 Saeco... looks like I'm riding some toothpicks
Tell me how it compairs to your CAAD5? I currently ride a CAAD10.
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Got my frame in the mail this week, built it up and took it out for the first ride. I built it up with SRAM red XPLR and XMCS bars.
The build process was the smoothest I've had for a Chinese frame so far. Others I've built up are: Speeder SC-55RD, Onirii One, Velobuild AreoGrav, and a Yoeleo rim brake frame a while back. In general the parts included were just slightly higher quality than most. The headset bearings come in their CEMA box, the expander plug seems nicer than others I've gotten and the thru axles are on the lighter end compared to others (I think they weigh the same as the Onirii and 10g less than Speeder, not that 10g matters but to me indicates they are paying attention to details).
The only issue with the frame I had was super minor. The drive side of the bottom bracket was very difficult to get the threads engaged. It would have been really easy to cross thread if I just forced it. Once the first few threads engaged it went in smooth. The other side went in butter smooth, so not sure what the problem was. Fork has the brake cable come out on the left hand side, which is good for routing the non-UK way but might be annoying if you want your front brake on the right (I assume there isn't an alternate fork). Brake mounts seemed faced and aligning the capipers was slightly harder than the Speeder but easier than everything else, including my old Canyon Aeroad.
Handle bars so far seem great. Super stiff. Geometry seems good and they now have those little bumps on the tops for grip and a nice XMCS logo in front.
I've only ridden it for 30 miles so far so can't give a complete opinion on the ride feel, but will say general impressions. Compared to the Speeder and Aeroad it is way less harsh and much smoother. It also feels a bit smoother than the Velobuild AeroGrav. Compared to the Onirii it's similarly comfortable but feels much stiffer. The Onirii is a bit of a noodle and this bike is not. In terms of handling, for me it's the best I've had. It's not twitchy or super racy but it I would and will race a crit on it and I won't be wanting for more. For me it handles like the like the Canyon but less twitch and more stable. The speeder for me just doesn't handle well because I have to add a ton of spacers + positive angle stem so it's feels unstable. In terms of stiffness/repesponsiveness I haven't really done any sprinting to test but it feels rock solid. On the flat/downhill it feels a bit more sluggish than the Aeroad and Speeder, probably the longer chainstays. Uphill it feels really good out of the saddle. Just seems to go when you put the power down. That's probably due to it being lighter but just as stiff in the rear compared to my old Canyon.
To summarize: to me it feels like the Aeroad but more comfortable, lighter, more stable, and a tad less twitchy. Once I put some more miles I can give more in depth opinions. This is just based on one ride so subject to change, but I really like the bike so far
What kind of speeder frame do you have?
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Tell me how it compairs to your CAAD5? I currently ride a CAAD10.
That's a tough one, especially since I believe the CAAD5 isn't really easy to compare to a CAAD10 as well... As far as I remember the CAAD5 was probably the stiffest and harshest road bike Cannondale ever made. So brutal, that even the Pros couldn't cope with it. This is why they replaced the CAAD5 in the middle of the Season with the CAAD6.
That said: I love my CAAD5. It's an extremely light bike (built it up with Dura Ace 7700, and Easton EA90 Aero wheels it's astonishing how light it is). There's no carbon fibre touching that bike... It's playful and fun to ride... but that mean's fun as in "Skateboarding" or being in a jump arena... Really fun, really crazy... but after an hour of riding it you suddenly realize you're not 16 anymore. Some of my best timed laps were made on that CAAD5 and (even at comparable fitness level) I couldn't compete with any of the carbon bikes I've owned later (Cannondale Slice as a Road build, BMC Teammachine SLR02) - as long as the laps ware under an hour. The moment I'm looking at the two-hour laps the CAAD5 is like 15 minutes slower than the others.
So with that in mind: the main difference is comfort vs harshness. The GT feels plenty stiff and every pedal stroke seems to propel you forward really well. I'd say in that regards it's probably the closest to how the CAAD5 felt to me (meaning: BMC, Cannondale Slice, CAAD9, my CX bikes, Focus Cayo, my steel steed, Klein Quantum Race, Principia felt more sluggish than the GT and the CAAD5). Riding on flats, seated, without moving the bike around too much I'd say the GT feels similar in accelleration to the CAAD5. In all out sprints, I believe the CAAD5 feels quicker to me... this might be due to nostalgia or due to the fact that the GT (with 34 Vittoria Corsas) eats up small bumps and road chatter... So I'm not sure which of the two would be more effective in an all out sprint...
Comparing the CAAD5 to the GT seems like: Go-Cart without suspension compared to a magic carpet flying 10 cm above the ground...
The racing cart feels fast - my family car goes faster on the motorway... the magic carpet probably is another level...
Hope that helps
Cheers
Robert
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What kind of speeder frame do you have?
Speeder SC-55RD, it's very different and the reason I went with this frame was realizing the speeder was just way too aggressive for me
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That's a tough one, especially since I believe the CAAD5 isn't really easy to compare to a CAAD10 as well... As far as I remember the CAAD5 was probably the stiffest and harshest road bike Cannondale ever made. So brutal, that even the Pros couldn't cope with it. This is why they replaced the CAAD5 in the middle of the Season with the CAAD6.
That said: I love my CAAD5. It's an extremely light bike (built it up with Dura Ace 7700, and Easton EA90 Aero wheels it's astonishing how light it is). There's no carbon fibre touching that bike... It's playful and fun to ride... but that mean's fun as in "Skateboarding" or being in a jump arena... Really fun, really crazy... but after an hour of riding it you suddenly realize you're not 16 anymore. Some of my best timed laps were made on that CAAD5 and (even at comparable fitness level) I couldn't compete with any of the carbon bikes I've owned later (Cannondale Slice as a Road build, BMC Teammachine SLR02) - as long as the laps ware under an hour. The moment I'm looking at the two-hour laps the CAAD5 is like 15 minutes slower than the others.
So with that in mind: the main difference is comfort vs harshness. The GT feels plenty stiff and every pedal stroke seems to propel you forward really well. I'd say in that regards it's probably the closest to how the CAAD5 felt to me (meaning: BMC, Cannondale Slice, CAAD9, my CX bikes, Focus Cayo, my steel steed, Klein Quantum Race, Principia felt more sluggish than the GT and the CAAD5). Riding on flats, seated, without moving the bike around too much I'd say the GT feels similar in accelleration to the CAAD5. In all out sprints, I believe the CAAD5 feels quicker to me... this might be due to nostalgia or due to the fact that the GT (with 34 Vittoria Corsas) eats up small bumps and road chatter... So I'm not sure which of the two would be more effective in an all out sprint...
Comparing the CAAD5 to the GT seems like: Go-Cart without suspension compared to a magic carpet flying 10 cm above the ground...
The racing cart feels fast - my family car goes faster on the motorway... the magic carpet probably is another level...
Hope that helps
Cheers
Robert
Thanks so much. I appreciate your assessment of the bike. I actually have the XMCS R01 frame to be built up. It is less of endurance than the GT but not full race mode for sure. Your biggest comment to me was your last one and I like the sound of that. Thanks again.
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Just a couple of logo concepts. Let me know what you guys think!
Definitely the second one.
Maybe try to strech it even more down the downtube with or without more spacing between the letters.
- Revenger name has to go. We need a better name for the frame :)
Logo for head tube is classy as well. 10/10 would ride this with those decals Peter.
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Just a couple of logo concepts. Let me know what you guys think!
What if you stretched it a bit and made two parallel lines instead of the on angled line. Just a thought.
For the front head tube it should be the S that he already uses IMO in silver. Maybe slightly large than the ones they put on some wheelsets. JMO
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Agreed on removing Revenger. It is not good.
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Posting these pics mostly just for the decals I had made. The frame is actually the XMCS R01 model and came in recently. Build up will be slow but I will post when it is finally done.
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Hi, so what's up with the various decal options and the name of the bike ?
I'm very tempted by this one...
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Hi, so what's up with the various decal options and the name of the bike ?
I'm very tempted by this one...
Well there's lots of chat here in the forum but not too much from Peter directly... I'd recommend you just contact him directly... It always was really easy discussing wishes directly with him, so you probably will get the best information directly and might be able to discuss your own ideas/wishes...
(and you can still get the frameset ready to paint if I know correctly)
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Ready to be sent! Today I got a photo from Peter! Very fast, no issues, great communication, as always. I will support my colleague to assembly the bike. Now we will wait patiently when it arrives to Poland. I will keep you posted.
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Well there's lots of chat here in the forum but not too much from Peter directly... I'd recommend you just contact him directly... It always was really easy discussing wishes directly with him, so you probably will get the best information directly and might be able to discuss your own ideas/wishes...
(and you can still get the frameset ready to paint if I know correctly)
Thanks, I asked because like several people here I'm not fond of the Revenger name, but it seems he'd like to stock to it...
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Thanks, I asked because like several people here I'm not fond of the Revenger name, but it seems he'd like to stock to it...
Well I've got mine raw, ready to paint... If you got a good painter I can highly recommend this...
Get the paintjob you love to make it YOUR bike
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I don’t have no painter, and a paint job would cost me waaaay too much.
And I kind of like the paint scheme he’s proposing.
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Hi, so what's up with the various decal options and the name of the bike ?
I'm very tempted by this one...
If you are talking about my blue and green frame, I got the decals made by Speedy Decal. Super service and very fast.
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If you are talking about my blue and green frame, I got the decals made by Speedy Decal. Super service and very fast.
Nope, was asking about the factory options. But custom decals are great !
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If you are talking about my blue and green frame, I got the decals made by Speedy Decal. Super service and very fast.
So, painted by carbonspeed but no decals? You applied your own?
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So, painted by carbonspeed but no decals? You applied your own?
Yes. Painted by XMCS before they started putting decals on so I asked Peter to send me decals but they need to be heated to install correctly. I didn’t have much luck with that so I ordered my own and love the way they turned out.
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Hi,
Why is there so much difference in price with the other XMCS carbon frames ?
A CS-R01 is only $600…
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They use(d) cheaper Carbon and less refined layups... The GT is the first one of a new generation, better carbon, better frames, higher price... Expect everything that comes from them to be in the GT range for the time coming... Also the rumoured race frame will be more likely in the GT price area (or above?) than in the area of the old models
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They use(d) cheaper Carbon and less refined layups... The GT is the first one of a new generation, better carbon, better frames, higher price... Expect everything that comes from them to be in the GT range for the time coming... Also the rumoured race frame will be more likely in the GT price area (or above?) than in the area of the old models
Where did you get all of that information?
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Had a brief conversation about different carbon layups and qualities with Peter since I've ordered a gravel frame after my GT...
I think his words were "but you know that it's not as good as the GT frame?" (Top sales argument 🤣)
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Had a brief conversation about different carbon layups and qualities with Peter since I've ordered a gravel frame after my GT...
I think his words were "but you know that it's not as good as the GT frame?" (Top sales argument 🤣)
Thanks
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The GT is the first one of a new generation, better carbon, better frames, higher price...
Would be really good to have more concrete/quantitative information on this.
Would be valuable when comparing to other options like the LCR018-D, https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6333.0.html
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They use(d) cheaper Carbon and less refined layups... The GT is the first one of a new generation, better carbon, better frames, higher price... Expect everything that comes from them to be in the GT range for the time coming... Also the rumoured race frame will be more likely in the GT price area (or above?) than in the area of the old models
I understand, but it’s 2.5x the price at the moment ($1500 w/bar vs $600).
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Would be really good to have more concrete/quantitative information on this.
Would be valuable when comparing to other options like the LCR018-D, https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6333.0.html
On the xmcs homepage they state which carbon fibres they use: t800 for GT, t700 for the others (except for the gravel, don't find it instantly)...
The other thing is (pure speculation on my part here!!): open mold vs designing your own thing... Is bet that the gravel comes from an open mold, while the GT is completely individually designed... If you share your mold with nanny others you can produce higher numbers and therefore cost per piece for design etc should go down... Probably there is also other economy of scales factors involved...
If I think about when I've heard about the race frame for the first time and how long it's been I bet this is an individual design... I know that the GT was an individual design and that there have been some tweaks to it since my very first GT (the Seatpost topic!)
I'm afraid that's the way many high quality brands are going... If you've got people there who are passionate about what they are doing and want to offer high quality, the continuous increase in quality will affect prices...
Hambini called xmcs "the next winspace" and many around here already said they were scared that this would mean an increase in prices...
As for the GT I can say: if the price/quality ratio stays the same I'm happy (since all of the prototype problems were sorted out and I should have a new Seatpost by tomorrow)...
But I guess there's just different demands and offerings...
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open mold vs designing your own thing... Is bet that the gravel comes from an open mold, while the GT is completely individually designed... If you share your mold with nanny others you can produce higher numbers and therefore cost per piece for design etc should go down... Probably there is also other economy of scales factors involved...
Isn’t the Lightcarbon LCR018 a completely new design ?
Still way cheaper than the GT, while using T700/T800/T1100 carbon fiber.
I’m not bashing XMCS, just want to know what justifies such a price.
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Sorry if I haven't been exact enough Jeff, I don't know enough about the Lightcarbon offerings to compare them to the XMCS Frames... I was only referring to the older XMCS-Framesets and compared pricing of them to the pricing of the GT...
Whatever I'd say about Lightcarbon Framesets and bikes would probably wrong - I only had contact with them once and the answers were so much not to my liking that I didn't bother any further with them... (was about weight limit issues and - while their answers were correct and friendly - didn't help me any step further, no alternatives offered or anything... just a "then don't buy here" kinda thing... same reason why I don't bother with cube bikes anymore)
Now back to the GT for just one second: The reason why I got the GT is it's geometry. When I bought it there was no alternative to give me the position i could ride (except for the Pinarello X, but that wasn't an option for price reasons)... I don't know anything about the LCR018 since I can't find it on their homepage and don't know about the geometry of the bike...
But if it's not close to the GT it's just not a relevant comparison... seriously: if you are proper fit and want to ride a long racy bike, the GT is not for you... if you can't go long racy for whatever reason - the GT is a valid option worth it's money - and I haven't seen a competitor (price wise) in that categorie so far...
Hope this clarifys my statement and helps you on...
(and please keep on taking my opinion with a grain of doubt)
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Before I'll do an edit I just do another post...
Just seen the LCR018 frameset with a little help of this forum...
If I compare them geometry wise: XMCS GT has a higher stack2reach-ratio - meaning it will put you in a more upright position - even though it's designed to be a Road bike and not an All-Road or even Gravely bike...
Seat Tube angle is quite different and LCR018 has got a longer wheelbase, so I believe that the handling of the two bikes would be quite different... Geometrywise I'd expect the LCR018 to feel a bit more planted, calmer if you want while I'd expect the GT to be more "snappy" (even though it doesn't feel snappy to me, compared to my BMC Teammachine)...
From a bike fit point of view I'd say the GT offers a more relaxed position for riders with short torsos or low flexibility... while the LCR offers more versatility due to wider tire clearance and the longer wheelbase for a more stable feeling... I wouldn't be too stable on the LCR though since I'd need quite a big spacer tower to ride it comfortable...
coming to the price discussion again... I've got no idea... but as far as I see the difference will most likely be in economy of scales... Lightcarbon has (afaik) a much higher volume in what they are producing etc... so I actually wouldn't believe the difference is only due to quality reasons... the LCR018 seems to be a good deal if it fits your needs...
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In my size, the GT and the LCR018 are very close to each other geometry wise, appart from the LC having a +1cm reach (which can be compensated with a slightly shorter stem). The LC bars add 8mm of stack.
Thanks for your input anyway!
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Hello everyone,
Finished building my gt frame and went for a test and everything worked well.
I then tried adjusting my seat post height and screw it back all the way. Carried my bike down the stair and put a bit of weight on the saddle and it now stuck in the frame. Can't move it, any idea how to fix it ?
For information my frame should not have the same issue as the frame from eurobike.
I also did not put carbon paste on my seat tube and cut 70mm off (hence why it looks short on the photos).
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Use a large rubber mallet and tap the saddle rails from below.
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Thanks it worked !
Here are the picture of my build then !!
Custom paint and everything xmcs and AliExpress except for group set and tyres.
Frame, wheels, handlebar, chain rings, cranks and spindle are from XMCS.
Xcadey power meter
Oniri pedals
Ryet saddle
Pirelli P Zero tyres
Weight 7.7 kg.
Will write a review soon !
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Thanks it worked !
Here are the picture of my build then !!
Custom paint and everything xmcs and AliExpress except for group set and tyres.
Frame, wheels, handlebar, chain rings and spindle are from XMCS.
Xcadey power meter
Oniri pedals
Ryet saddle
Pirelli P Zero tyres
Weight 7.7 kg.
Will write a review soon !
What cranks are you using? Sorry if I missed it.
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Updated my previous post but it is the 165mm carbon cranks from XMCS.
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Updated my previous post but it is the 165mm carbon cranks from XMCS.
Thanks
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Thanks it worked !
Here are the picture of my build then !!
Custom paint and everything xmcs and AliExpress except for group set and tyres.
Frame, wheels, handlebar, chain rings, cranks and spindle are from XMCS.
Xcadey power meter
Oniri pedals
Ryet saddle
Pirelli P Zero tyres
Weight 7.7 kg.
Will write a review soon !
Super nice bike/frame!
But did you repaint it? Or was the one in post #77 not your frame?
The one you showed before has other decals and looks more "racing green" (which I liked even more) while this one looks a teint lighter green.
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Lighting can really make a huge difference and that is my guess. I do agree it looks much different.
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Thanks it worked !
Here are the picture of my build then !!
Custom paint and everything xmcs and AliExpress except for group set and tyres.
Frame, wheels, handlebar, chain rings, cranks and spindle are from XMCS.
Xcadey power meter
Oniri pedals
Ryet saddle
Pirelli P Zero tyres
Weight 7.7 kg.
Will write a review soon !
Beauty! How was mounting those tires onto the wheels? Why did you not go with the RS version of those tires?
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I have some update from my colleague, I will assemble bike for her on Gran Turismo frameset. She is very happy, she has choosen the "Raw Black" paiting.
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Super nice bike/frame!
But did you repaint it? Or was the one in post #77 not your frame?
The one you showed before has other decals and looks more "racing green" (which I liked even more) while this one looks a teint lighter green.
Indeed I repainted it because I did not like the decals and I had to repaint the whole frame.
The new green is indeed a tad lighter but more deep with a less shiny finish.
Overall I liked the orignal one but the new one looks better in person !
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Beauty! How was mounting those tires onto the wheels? Why did you not go with the RS version of those tires?
Mounting the tyres were horrendous, I spent so much time and hurt my fingers in the process.
Went for the race tlr because I wanted better puncture protection.
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Indeed I repainted it because I did not like the decals and I had to repaint the whole frame.
The new green is indeed a tad lighter but more deep with a less shiny finish.
Overall I liked the orignal one but the new one looks better in person !
Did you paint the decals or order some? I orders from Speedy Decal and was blown away with their work and quality.
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Did you paint the decals or order some? I orders from Speedy Decal and was blown away with their work and quality.
[/quotI
It is painted, found a cool font on dafont.com
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What do I need for di2 battery installation in the seat post?
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What do I need for di2 battery installation in the seat post?
Nothing, it comes with a wedge that goes into the Seatpost and holds the battery, when you tighten the screw
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So, has anyone gotten annother frame and is willing to share the experiences and some pictures. Im interested in the different Paintjobs and decals options.
Is the seatpost issues solved?
Thx alot
WW
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I posted all the different options a few page back.
Lots of member posted their bike too, have a look !
On another note, I found that the rear trough axle is a bit too long on my frame, causing it to hit the end of the rear axle drivetrain side and preventing my axle to completely thread all the way.
That causes some play in the rear wheel, very annoying. I had to put a screw head to artificially shorten my axle to solve the issue.
Can someone please send me the length of their rear through axle ? Mine is between 174mm.
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I posted all the different options a few page back.
Lots of member posted their bike too, have a look !
On another note, I found that the rear trough axle is a bit too long on my frame, causing it to hit the end of the rear axle drivetrain side and preventing my axle to completely thread all the way.
That causes some play in the rear wheel, very annoying. I had to put a screw head to artificially shorten my axle to solve the issue.
Can someone please send me the length of their rear through axle ? Mine is between 172 and 173mm.
We produced the axles in same batch production, the length must be correct. No one else has this problem, not sure if you didn't screw the axle correctly or not.
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Cant wait to join the club :)
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Hot diggity I want that shade of white if I ever get my hands on an XMCS frameset. Silver decals.
Congrats!
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1130g with a 3-stage paint :)
Found a picture in the thread showing 1018gr with normal paintjob so 100gr extra. With uhd hanger and bottle cage screws.
Whats the hole under the hanger used for?
Also, the hardware included a thin metallic washer. Where is that used?
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Sorry for the silly request, but I cant find a link to the frame and I cant find it on xmcarbonspeed.com. Cany anyome help?
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Here you go:
https://www.xmcarbonspeed.cc/products/xmcs-gran-turismo-frameset
Cheers from Friedrichshain
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1130g with a 3-stage paint :)
Found a picture in the thread showing 1018gr with normal paintjob so 100gr extra. With uhd hanger and bottle cage screws.
Whats the hole under the hanger used for?
Also, the hardware included a thin metallic washer. Where is that used?
Not sure about the hole under than hanger, but that thin washer I beleive is used to interface the fork/steer tube and the lower bearing in the headtube. But without a picture you could be referring to something different. Also I'm just going off memory from my build.
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I’ve never installed di2 before but I suppose it goes thru the same hole as a mechanical installation and I’ll have to plug the other mysterious hole.
As for the washer, I attached picture.
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1130g with a 3-stage paint :)
Found a picture in the thread showing 1018gr with normal paintjob so 100gr extra. With uhd hanger and bottle cage screws.
Whats the hole under the hanger used for?
Also, the hardware included a thin metallic washer. Where is that used?
Looking forward to your final build. The holes you mention, one is for Di2 , the other is for traditional mech
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It's not mine, it belong to my colleague, but she bought it as geometry is good for her :) Black raw black, ultegra DI2, proway 40- mm wheels and Avian Handlebar. I will ask for weight ,however she has very heavy Spec saddle - 168 mm. Overall, she is very satisfied and happy! 8)
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Hambini Gran Turismo video out now!
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Hambini Gran Turismo video out now!
Very good video indeed :)
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I am really interested in this frame but will have to wait for user reviews.
Hambini loves it...not sure whether that's a positive or a negative :D
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Hambini loves it...not sure whether that's a positive or a negative :D
sponsored video, or he gets a "Special" edition frame, so don't believe everything these youtubers say
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Don't worry, I don't believe much of what Hambini says.
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sponsored video, or he gets a "Special" edition frame, so don't believe everything these youtubers say
Yes, People who have the items in hand can tell the grapes are sweet or sour ;D You can check out more reviews on this frameset in this thread, and I have said about random frame or other items sent to those youtubers, since I am confindent on our products quality, either frameset or wheelset, even other components, we don't have to send special edition products for review, otherwise might have got a lot of warranty issues. But have you seen any bad quality warranty issues on our product? We take good care of our clients even just small issue, anyway, thanks for your concern.
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@PeterXu i don't know if it has been asked before, but will you offer a zero offset seatpost option for the gran turismo frame?
Thanks
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@PeterXu i don't know if it has been asked before, but will you offer a zero offset seatpost option for the gran turismo frame?
Thanks
Yes, now we have zero offset seat post for this frameset, so you can choose either the offset one or zero one.
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What stem or headset "standart" do the supplied spacers fit best? I dont want to use a onepiece stem/handlebar at first so what kind of stem should I be looking for best compatibility?
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sponsored video, or he gets a "Special" edition frame, so don't believe everything these youtubers say
I have another one of XM's frames and can attest to the durability. I am 100KG and have not been very gentle on it - some very rough roads and light gravel at times. Absolutely no trouble at all after ~5000 km (1 season) and rides like day 1.
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I have another one of XM's frames and can attest to the durability. I am 100KG and have not been very gentle on it - some very rough roads and light gravel at times. Absolutely no trouble at all after ~5000 km (1 season) and rides like day 1.
killer paintjob on this one, chef's kiss
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Got to agree with the other user, I've around 5k Kms on mine too and it's been brilliant.
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killer paintjob on this one, chef's kiss
Thanks - I literally have hundreds of hours into it.
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I have just built the bike. Yet to do the bike fit.
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Beautiful
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Just recently got a GT and need to buy a new chain for it. What size chain did you buy and fit(I know it will need to be cut) to your bike? Does a 114 or 126 link work better for the longer chain stay? Im using SRAM Force E1 48 big chainring and 36 big cassette cog
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What size tire are you running on this frame and how much space do you have?
I'm debating putting 35mm GP5000 AS TR on this bike with 26mm internal width wheels, just want to make sure I'll still have clearance with that wheel/tire combo...
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Chain: I believe I've used a 116 link chain and did cut a bit off. It doesn't just depend on the bike, but also on the size of Cassette and your Chainrings.
Tires: I'm running Vittoria Corsa 34 and I've got enough room left. I wouldn't be sacred to go for Continental 35ers... (I just took the Vittorias since there are no GP5000 in 35 aside from the All Seasons...)
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I have just built the bike. Yet to do the bike fit.
Hi! Your bike looks great, did you get the paintjob like this from Peter?
How many spacers are currently on this, could provide me with a measurement with a picture? That would be very helpful as I estimate I will probably need 6-7cm of Spacers as well :)
Thank you!
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XMCS also has a good looking riser on-piece handlebar. Peter sent me this yesterday, as I was ordering my frame.
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Those fake zipps look horrendous
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On these kinds of seatposts, do you still use carbon grip paste?
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On these kinds of seatposts, do you still use carbon grip paste?
Yes!
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Had my first ride today. Was tons of fun! I like that bike a lot. No bar tape, yet.
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I've had the frame for a while and i was able to test it in different scenarios (flat rides, punchy walls and long climbs, both long and short days in the saddle), i can say that the frame is very comfortable with a reasonable tubeless setup, absorbs road chatter without sacrificing responsivity. So far i had PBs on a lot of segments around me so it's definitely faster than my old MY21 rim TCR ;D
i only have two issues with it:
- the saddle keeps slipping back during the ride (steel rails). Peter suggests 6NM for the saddle clamp bolt but it's not sufficient. has anybody had this problem?
- when out of the saddle and moving the front wheel a lot side to side the front brake rubs a bit. This could be flex in the for blades or maybe a compatibility issue (I'm running wheeltop calipers with stock pads and a shimano rotor in the front)
Picture for color reference, pretty pleased with how it turned out!
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I have the same issue regarding disc rubbing but I'm 90kg so that probably (partially at least :) ) on me!
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I've had the frame for a while and i was able to test it in different scenarios (flat rides, punchy walls and long climbs, both long and short days in the saddle), i can say that the frame is very comfortable with a reasonable tubeless setup, absorbs road chatter without sacrificing responsivity. So far i had PBs on a lot of segments around me so it's definitely faster than my old MY21 rim TCR ;D
i only have two issues with it:
- the saddle keeps slipping back during the ride (steel rails). Peter suggests 6NM for the saddle clamp bolt but it's not sufficient. has anybody had this problem?
- when out of the saddle and moving the front wheel a lot side to side the front brake rubs a bit. This could be flex in the for blades or maybe a compatibility issue (I'm running wheeltop calipers with stock pads and a shimano rotor in the front)
Picture for color reference, pretty pleased with how it turned out!
the saddle slippage seems to be fixed after changing saddles, maybe the previous one had dented rails from over-torquing on another bike, 6NM is enough on my end.
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Just checking in for some long term reviews and seatpost info on the GT.
Im seriously considering it as my "best" bike - currently debating to go for it or the newly announced Lightcarbon LCR020.
The LCR020 is more aero, but id be using a riser bar anyway and the frame is over 200g heavier than the GT - I could have next to no spacers, a slightly longer stem and a really lightweight build with the GT which is very appealing - but its dear at $1200, and thats discounted from the original $1600 price tag.
I know there were issues with the original seatpost - and I seen it menitoned Peter had talked about a v2 with the dual bolt adjustment system, - did this ever happen? If so, that could be a deal clincher for me.
Also seen this build on the WW forum and the decals are outstanding, so trying to find out where they were done - this looks phenomenal.
(https://i.ibb.co/DD1wC7ZF/gt.jpg) (https://ibb.co/mCRhqH3K)
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There is a new seatpost and I've got one from Peter. Since the original statistics on my GT still sits perfectly I never bothered taking it out to switch over, but I haven't heard that anyone after the first few frames had the same issues as we had...
I strongly believe Peter listens to the input from here and XMCS improve their product on our feedback.
I think the GT is available long enough for the teething issues too be resolved.
I'm still riding my GT and riding it rather hard. The only issue I encountered apart from the statistics is that the wheeler I'm using (9velo gravel wheeler) is too flexy and gives me problems when sprinting... New wheelsizes to come soon...
Hell I like that frameset so much that I've even considered getting one for my daughter to race on it... But I believe I'd rather go for a race frame for her
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On the downside, the long chainstay doesn't really improve rear tire clearance, which is limited to around 35mm if you want 4mm of clearance on each side.
The tire makes contact with the chainstay before the seatpost, so there's always going to be a noticeable gap.
For me in the future when i forget again: this frame can't take a GP5000 in 35C.
Next question: quid of the VRT?
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For me in the future when i forget again: this frame can't take a GP5000 in 35C.
Next question: quid of the VRT?
I'm running a GP5000 35, no problems. Everywhere I look there's at least 3mm air, more like 5mm
Edit: I just checked, running Xmcs wheels with 26mm internal
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I'm running a GP5000 35, no problems. Everywhere I look there's at least 3mm air, more like 5mm
Edit: I just checked, running Xmcs wheels with 26mm internal
Lol that topic never stops being confusing... 1st of all, thank you.
Do you have calipers to measure the measured size of your tyre (inflated at riding psi)?
Are you eye balling these clearance measurements ("air"), or is it measured? The easiest method i found is using allen keys. A 4mm allen key either fits, or doesnt. if it fits, you try 5, it either fits, or doesnt. my LTK 268 has a 34.4mm tyre w 4mm either side, measured w calipers & 4mm allen key. I have no contact on the left side, and contact on the right side. 5mm key simply doesnt fit on either side.
Last: is it the new gp5000 35C, or is the all season version? (not sure it matters, but might as well be thorough).
Edit from me from the future as per below.
Assuming that GP5000 35C All Season and the new fast one measure the same, then 26mm IW rim --> c.38mm tyre + 4 + 4.
--> can't really clear the GP5000 on a rim where you dont have a lightbulb effect (reports of 40-41mm on rims that result in a 38-40mm external width).
Also with the caveat of ETRTO safety shenanigans of 35C on wide rims that are still up for debate.
To be fair, maybe 3mm clearande is enough, btw. Never tested that. all i know is that ISO standard is 4mm and that 3mm isnt.
Also to be fair, a lightbulb effect at the front is a no no for me, but at the end of the day, on the rear wheel, it's dirty air already, so maybe it's not the end of the world is the tyre to rim transition is sub optimal.
Conclusion: kind of works, i guess?
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Haven't got calipers with me, but I've gotten the allen keys out, just for you...
5+ mm everywhere except next to the chain stays, there it's 4mm...
Using the GP 5000 AS TR with TPU inner tubes... On XMCS 26 internal rims (not checked, I believed Peter on that one)
Greetings from the roadside of the TDF
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Hello everyone,
For information, I am selling a 0mm offset seatpost if anyone is interested please see my post here :
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,7535.0.html
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Are there more people riding this frame? i feel like if there's 200+ pages on the 18D, there should be more pages on this thread.
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I ride it and I love it. Havent got it creek-free, yet, but that is most likely a me problem. The geometry is absolutly perfect for me.
[
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Are there more people riding this frame? i feel like if there's 200+ pages on the 18D, there should be more pages on this thread.
Agreed...Doesn't seem that popular.
I ride it and I love it. Havent got it creek-free, yet, but that is most likely a me problem. The geometry is absolutly perfect for me.
[
What's creaking? I will not tolerate that sort of thing.
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Are there more people riding this frame? i feel like if there's 200+ pages on the 18D, there should be more pages on this thread.
It's hardly surprising when it's a lot more expensive. I bought one of Hambini's frames off him and have had it built up for a couple of weeks (Ultegra and XMCS 58mm wheels). It feels to ride smoother and slightly faster than my Light Carbon LCR017 but that could just be the new bike effect. The overall build quality and fit and finish does feel noticeably better.
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What's creaking? I will not tolerate that sort of thing.
My cockpit, if I really work it and the right side of my crank (I think). But like I said, I am not at all a reliable mechanic, so I assume that is root cause.