Thanks for the info, I’ll take a closer look at it!

This is part of the myth that is often peddled by many people here. IME, this is not true. From what I have gathered, the general expertise is primarily in mold design, layup, and structural design. The latter is where there is overlap with many factories and top bike brands. This type of overlap, though, is necessary and something you see in every industry where a company leans on its supply base for innovation. The reason so many of these Chinese companies currently have struggles with bearings wearing out after a season of riding, endcaps that don't fit, seatposts that slip, headset bearings, and front ends that don't fit together correctly, etc., is that their product development processes are either not mature or don't exist. This gap is significant and is also why Chinese brands Seka, Evolve, and QuickPro have found room to operate, and why their prices are significantly higher than those of the OEMs they use or are a part of.

For some of these frames, gaps are closed by members of this forum, who provide fixes and redesign parts that should work out of the box. For example, how many collective hours went into troubleshooting the Velobuild headsets?

Of course, there are exceptions. I 100% would trust Peter from XM Carbonspeed to develop a product, but he isn't cheap. .

who is Peter ? Proxy? Seller? Thk u.

I'm sorry i offended you.
I never wrote “all frames are basically the same once the sticker’s off”
I never wrote “there’s no real difference” between frames.

You so clearly dont know what you're talking about, it's crazy that you have the hubris to attack users.

Consider dealing with your fragile ego, learning what nuance means, and good luck.

Thanks for your reply my ego is doing just fine don’t worry;)

I can understand that the tone of my initial message may have come across as a bit sharp — that wasn’t my intention at all. I wasn’t aiming at anyone personally, nor trying to create any tension.

My goal here is simply to learn as much as possible in order to carry out a project that really matters to me.
I’m not an expert — and that’s exactly why I’m here: to ask questions, understand the technical differences between OEM frames, and learn from people with more experience.

I’m currently looking for a high-quality OEM frame, with a demanding set of criteria, and I’m fully prepared to put a real budget into it — not to build a showroom bike, but something personal, based on informed and deliberate choices from start to finish.

That’s why I’m digging into topics like EPS molding, layup structure, and manufacturing tolerances.

If my message came off as too blunt or too direct, I apologize — it wasn’t meant that way. I’m not here to challenge anyone or create conflict.

I’m here to learn, share ideas, and move forward with my project, while respecting everyone’s input and experience.

Thanks again for your reply — I’m looking forward to more constructive and technical discussions ahead.

If you have 4000 euro to spend, get the legitimate one. The reason we explore OEM is because of ultimate C/P ratio. 4000 euro for a frame is far from that, try 500 USD.

Also, the biggest myth here is not the QA reject thing, it is the T1100 you are asking for, I am not even talking about whether it is really used for frames, ever thought there is only a single layer of T1100 even when they claimed they used T1100? Do you believe it makes a significant difference in terms of stiffness?

Thanks for the feedback, but let me clarify a few things because this project is being misunderstood:

1️⃣ “Why not just buy a legitimate frame?”
I’m not looking for a typical cost-per-performance OEM deal at $500. My goal is a high-spec raw carbon frame, close to what Specialized does with the S-Works SL8 (EPS molding, mixed T1100/T800 layup, <800g, raw UD finish).
A legitimate new S-Works frame costs over €5,500. If I can source a QA reject or surplus factory frame with verifiable layup quality for €4,000, that’s actually good value considering the tech involved.

2️⃣ “T1100 is a myth / just one layer”
I’m fully aware of this marketing trick. I’m not asking for full T1100, which is unrealistic. What I’m after is a frame with EPS molding and confirmed T1100 layers strategically placed (head tube, BB, stays), similar to FACT 12r layup. This is exactly how top brands achieve stiffness-to-weight – it’s not about slapping one decorative layer of T1100.

3️⃣ “Resale value matters”
Resale is completely irrelevant here. This is a prototype-level build, meant to be a unique, custom bike – not something to flip later. If resale was the goal, I’d just buy a used Canyon or Giant and be done.

In short, I’m not chasing cheap carbon nor blindly believing marketing claims. I’m specifically exploring real factory-sourced, EPS-molded frames with credible high-end layups. That’s a very different discussion from generic $500 clones

Thanks a lot to everyone for the detailed replies – this is incredibly helpful.

From what you’re saying, it sounds like the idea of getting a true OEM or QA reject frame (from a top-level factory, unused, unpainted) is basically impossible nowadays.

I’m curious though – was this ever really a thing in the past, or has it always been more of a myth used by sellers to make their replica frames sound more legitimate?

Thanks again for all your answers – this has helped me a lot

why evolve cima precisely?

Hi everyone,

I’m currently looking for a high-end road bike frame that matches as closely as possible the Specialized S-Works SL8 FACT 12r, ideally as an OEM, surplus, or QA reject (not a replica or low-cost clone).

My technical requirements:
   •   Carbon: Toray T1000 , at least in critical zones (BB, HT, chainstays, downtube) – with proof of layup or credible declaration.
   •   Molding: EPS / 3D latex inner molding only (no bladder molding), clean internal finish.
   •   Geometry: As close as possible to the SL8 race geometry.
   •   Weight: <800 g for size 52/54, bare frame.
   •   Finish: UD raw, clear thin matte varnish (no paint, no logos).
   •   BB standard: T47 (68 mm or similar).
   •   Origin: Verified factory surplus or OEM production (Taiwan or China) – not generic open mold unless it meets all above specs.
   •   Budget: Up to €2500 all included (frame + fork + customs + proxy fees).

Already evaluated:
   •   LightCarbon LCR017-D → good EPS molding, 760–830 g, but only T700+T800+T1000 (no T1100).
   •   LightCarbon LCR018-D → includes T1100 but is an endurance/all-road frame (~980 g), not suitable.
   •   Contacted several sellers (Dongguan etc.) → mainly replicas, not genuine OEM or surplus.

I’m looking for:
   •   Verified OEM suppliers with real SL8-like frames (T1000 layup, EPS molding).
   •   Factory contacts (WeChat, Xianyu, Taobao) for QA rejects or surplus units.
   •   Anyone who has successfully sourced such a frame and can share leads or trusted proxies.

Thanks a lot for any help or PM contacts – I’m ready to buy if the frame meets these requirements.