Panda Podium is selling this insane frameset: https://www.pandapodium.cc/product/incolor-voyager/?srsltid=AfmBOoqp7AG9WKVY_z2A8vzz3He3fCC0SCkbLQ0vXAqiTWXP4vZXxECN



I think this frame competes with endurance bikes (LCR018-D, Elves Eglath, Carbonda CFR-505 SL) rather than gravel bikes because it has all-road geometry (shorter wheelbase). I have never seen a bike with 45mm tyre clearance and 415mm chainstays  My endurance bike has 415mm chainstays with 35mm max tyres. They really put some effort into designing this.

-1700USD is a reasonable price for a frameset that weighs 850g (size54, unpainted)
-27.2mm seatpost, UDH hanger, T47 bb
-handlebar has a 20mm rise so stack numbers are higher
-max 1by chainring: 50t (good luck going 2by road groupset for tyres larger than ~36mm)

I bought this frame in size 51 with the same paint color from https://underdogscycling.cc/ (amazing service and communication by the way), and received it last week. I might be one of the first people to get one!

The frame, painted and fitted with bolts but without any accessories (UDH mount, front derailleur mount, etc.), weighs 952 grams.

I haven't had the chance to build it yet, but I have to say, Incolor is on another level. From the way they packaged the frame to the included accessories, manuals, frame quality, and attention to every little detail, it's all excellent. It honestly makes me want to buy their road frame next, now that I've seen how good their quality is.

For reference, I've also bought the Lightcarbon LCR018-D, LT GV201, and Spcycle G058. Don't get me wrong, the LCR018 was great quality (though I haven't finished that build yet), but Incolor's attention to detail really sets it apart from the others.

Geometry is pretty much identical to my Factor LS gravel bike. (only it has 5mm longer chainstays and 42mm tire clearance)  It rides very very much like a road bike with 28mm road tires!

The frame has very nice specs.  Only their geometry is not in line with the bike's purpose. For both gravel and allroad they should have added 10 to 20mm stack.
Pricing is ok, but as you mentioned, there are some cheaper options for similar specs. That's a comment for all the PandaPodium frames.

No, this bike's stack and reach are where they should be for an all-road bike, at least for the sizes 51 and 54, which are going to be the majority of sales in the Chinese market. Look how short the reaches are, and consider that the stock headset cover for internal routing is ~10mm.

If you are complaining about a whole genre of something, saying they are all wrong, the chances are you want something specific and different.

Agree. If you need 10-20mm more stack, then use spacers. For the category bike this looks spot on.
(Im using my LS slammed with a -17 degree 120 stem. 5mm lower like the Voyager would be nice. )

Quote from: Sakizashi on November 05, 2025, 10:01:13 PM
No, this bike's stack and reach are where they should be for an all-road bike, at least for the sizes 51 and 54, which are going to be the majority of sales in the Chinese market. Look how short the reaches are, and consider that the stock headset cover for internal routing is ~10mm.

If you are complaining about a whole genre of something, saying they are all wrong, the chances are you want something specific and different.

True, when I look at it and it literally says its a gravel bike, I look for what a gravel bike should do.  I find it strange you place it in the all-road segment, because this bike isn't. That's their Incolor Intropy Speedster SR plus with 38C tire clearance.

Quote from: jfcb on November 06, 2025, 01:03:42 AM
True, when I look at it and it literally says its a gravel bike, I look for what a gravel bike should do.  I find it strange you place it in the all-road segment, because this bike isn't. That's their Incolor Intropy Speedster SR plus with 38C tire clearance.

IDK, i was just going off of what the OP listed the bike as. All road and gravel as segments are really varied and aren't clearly defined.

Regardless, there are Chinese bikes with monster clearance, slack HTA, and massive stacks. There are also western bikes like the Crux, Kaius, and others that are more aggressive in terms of stack and reach than this one. This is on the racier side of the spectrum for whatever you call a bike designed for mixed surface racing. This also aligns with Incolor's performance-oriented brand positioning.

Making a categorical statement as your main critique is neither helpful nor topical. You can literally go find a different bike that works for you, since there are many.

Quote from: jfcb on November 06, 2025, 01:03:42 AM
True, when I look at it and it literally says its a gravel bike, I look for what a gravel bike should do.  I find it strange you place it in the all-road segment, because this bike isn't. That's their Incolor Intropy Speedster SR plus with 38C tire clearance.

I don't think you are the one who decides what a real gravel bike is. It's like saying xc MTB bike is not real mountain bike because it doesn't have a geometry of w downhill bike.

I think this gravel bike from incolor is great, because many roadies want a fast and lively gravel bike on which they can replicate their position from a road bike. What incolor achieved here is great imo, 45c with 415 chainstay is something many are looking for. Just from looking at the Geo I can tell you this will be a fun bike to ride.

Shame the graphics and colour schemes are so awful.
The specs are great but I just couldn't live with how they look. If they ever did a custom option with no decals, I'd probably buy one.

Silly question, because I'm too lazy to do research.

Any gravel frames out there that are similar to the ENVE Mog? The TanTan GR201 is similar but more aggressive geo.

Quote from: POTOOOOOOOO on November 06, 2025, 07:47:27 AM
If they ever did a custom option with no decals, I'd probably buy one.

My understanding is that Incolor is very flexible on making custom paint jobs, and that they are quite good at it also.

Quote from: jamez on November 06, 2025, 08:53:24 AM
My understanding is that Incolor is very flexible on making custom paint jobs, and that they are quite good at it also.

Really, that's interesting 🤔
Heading off to check that out

If you can fit on an XS or S sized frame,  Time ADHX 45 frameset is not all that much more at $2K.

https://www.timebicycles.com/en-us/products/adhx-45-frameset?variant=42462827020479

Just wish they had a bigger size. Like a 59 or 60. Would be perfect otherwise but the 57 is just too small.