Buyer BEWARE: Hongfu bikes

[ottoreni]

I ordered my WorksWell frame through Ebay to avoid this....my frame shipped within 2 days of the purchase.  This was about 2.5 years ago, so I do not know how things may have changed.

[samroy92]

The latest update is ridiculous:

• Hongfu decides to paint the frame anyway and prepare it for shipment.
• Alibaba.com declines refund application due to insufficient evidence. (I had attached the entire email thread with Hongfu, screenshots, etc.)
• I ask Hongfu for a refund again, over email.

7/25/18 8:11pm Hongfu: Hi Sam，how  are you recently? Is there, only if you cancel the dispute and click to agree to negotiate, I will refund the money I paid before
8/2/18 2:37am Hongfu: Hello, we have received the Alibaba dispute notification, Alibaba let us continue to ship your goods. We are not forcing you to buy this frame. It’s just that we have done the frame. If you really don’t want it, we need to charge a certain fee. Then we will return the rest of the money to you. If you need this frame, we will continue to ship. please confirm
8/2/18 7:00pm Hongfu: hi sam, have you recevied my letter,what is your thought？
8/3/18 5:06pm Me: Robert, Respectfully I would like a full refund.
8/3/18 6:57pm ---Hongfu ships order---
8/3/18 8:12pm Hongfu: I am sorry that  Best Regards,Robert
(not joking, that is literally the email I received)
8/6/18 10:33am Me: Robert,

I see this morning that the items have been shipped. This is absolutely what I did not want. I asked for a refund respectfully before the frame was customized or processed, then I asked for a refund many more times before August, now you have shipped the items anyway. This is against all of my wishes and requests.

I am formally letting you know that I will be refusing this shipment - and it will be returned to sender.

I called up my CC company as well and told them the latest. They advised me to refuse the shipment, and that they had still not received a reply from the merchant bank. I've basically done all I can at this point to not get this frame lol.

[tripleDot]

I'm gonna need another tub of popcorn, it seems the drama isn't quite over yet. 

[thesmokingman]

Man, these Hongfu fools are incredible. Talk about a fraudulent charge in progress lol.

[samroy92]

Ok guys... This got pretty damn funny (and ridiculous)

Aug 7 12:33am: (Hongfu) i have no way Best Regards, Robert
(Basically, in english: I don't even)
Aug 13 12:25pm: Tracking number text updates indicated package arrived in San Fransisco Intl.
---Package scheduled for delivery Aug 14th---
Aug 13 8:00am: I call up USPS and mark the package for RTS (Return to sender) preemptively and told all my roommates to refuse package on delivery.
Aug 14 11:00am: Package shows up at house for signature and my roommate refuses the package

Thinking im in the clear at this point something VERY strange happens

Aug 14 12:00am: Package gets scheduled for redelivery in my name
Aug 15 8:00am: My USPS mail guy calls me up and asks if I did the redelivery... "No way, that was NOT me"

Either USPS systems had a big of a glitch, or someone is really trying to deliver that package. Semi-Final thoughts: If you buy from Hongfu bikes, be aware that they are scammers in my estimation. I highly recommend Peter at xmcarbonspeed, and have had great experiences with Farsports (or Wheelsfar).

[mixlax]

I can understand you frustration.
Maybe a lesson for others would be to just wait on their frame to avoid ending up in the mess you are in?

[Jerryno]

Maybe a lesson for others would be to just wait on their frame to avoid ending up in the mess you are in?

Am I reading what am I reading? Somebody pinch me, help..

[chansen]

This is my fear with buying overseas, that their "# in stock" is a lie and I'll wait pretty much the maximum allowed time. I know AliExpress will refund you if the item does not make it there in 60 days. I'm guessing Alibaba does not have the same protections, because a later cutoff date was indicated upthread.

I think it's just accurate to say that if a company has a written policy to guarantee ship by a certain date, you can't count on anything better than that date. Unless you get a promise in writing.

I agree that the company was informed before production. I hope the refund gets processed. But what the company knows is they have an order and they figure they can enforce it by the Alibaba rules, so they will try. Not the best way to conduct business, but this is why the best defense is to discuss online so others can make informed decisions.

[thesmokingman]

^^Alibabba is sketchy, all those protections they plaster over their site are BS. I posted earlier in the thread that I went thru a similar ordeal. The seller knowingly sent me a broken frame, and not only that it wasn't even the effin frame I ordered! They still sent it, hoping to stick me with the fees and cost. I lol'd at them as Chase laid the hammer down on them.

Maybe a lesson for others would be to just wait on their frame to avoid ending up in the mess you are in?

Am I reading what am I reading? Somebody pinch me, help..

He probably works for Hongfu. That or he felt compelled just to join and post that?   

[adbl]

He probably works for Hongfu. That or he felt compelled just to join and post that?   

Hey, i'm not trying to be a dick, but in all fairness when dealing with these Chiner companies you do need to know how these transactions work. Now, i'm not sticking up for anyone or any company specifically. It's difficult to know exactly where these open mold frames are physically made. I'm sure Peter from Carbon Speed doesn't manufacture all the frames he sells. Hongfu, Dengfu, Workswell, Ican or whomever never makes all the frames they sell. These companies do deals with each other and give permission to sell each others frames. Hell, some of the places don't produce products at all, they are just re-sellers.

In this case here, the buyer was not happy waiting for as long as he did to receive his frame. So, he decided to purchase it from another seller who had it in stock. Through the buyers own words he mentioned he "assumed" the frame was in stock from Hongfu. The first mistake Hongfu made was to tell him to purchase it through Aliexpress. That to me right there throws up a red flag. I have only dealt with the selling companies directly. It's possible they were trying to get the sale straight away knowing they did not have the frame in stock. Bad business practices for sure! In the early discussions it appears Honfu told the buyer the frame was in production and then would need to be painted. If that is true then the buyer should expect to pay some recovery fee for a project that had been started, even though it's supposed to be an item that would usually be stocked (or maybe they had to order it from another company and the frame was in production). The buyer requested the order be canceled even though it had been started. Hongfu then decided to force the frame down the buyers throat, which in my opinion, has done nothing but cause bad blood and horrible reviews. Well deserved by them. Hopefully the credit card company can get this sorted and funds returned.

Moral of the story, either verify for sure the seller has the frame in their hands, or search around for someone trustworthy that does. If neither of these situations  can be verified, then be prepared to wait a long time to receive your frame. Do not be in a hurry!

Just my $.02 worth 

[samroy92]

He probably works for Hongfu. That or he felt compelled just to join and post that?   

Hey, i'm not trying to be a dick, but in all fairness when dealing with these Chiner companies you do need to know how these transactions work. Now, i'm not sticking up for anyone or any company specifically. It's difficult to know exactly where these open mold frames are physically made. I'm sure Peter from Carbon Speed doesn't manufacture all the frames he sells. Hongfu, Dengfu, Workswell, Ican or whomever never makes all the frames they sell. These companies do deals with each other and give permission to sell each others frames. Hell, some of the places don't produce products at all, they are just re-sellers.

In this case here, the buyer was not happy waiting for as long as he did to receive his frame. So, he decided to purchase it from another seller who had it in stock. Through the buyers own words he mentioned he "assumed" the frame was in stock from Hongfu. The first mistake Hongfu made was to tell him to purchase it through Alibaba. That to me right there throws up a red flag. I have only dealt with the selling companies directly. It's possible they were trying to get the sale straight away knowing they did not have the frame in stock. Bad business practices for sure! In the early discussions it appears Honfu told the buyer the frame was in production and then would need to be painted. If that is true then the buyer should expect to pay some recovery fee for a project that had been started, even though it's supposed to be an item that would usually be stocked (or maybe they had to order it from another company and the frame was in production). The buyer requested the order be canceled even though it had been started. Hongfu then decided to force the frame down the buyers throat, which in my opinion, has done nothing but cause bad blood and horrible reviews. Well deserved by them. Hopefully the credit card company can get this sorted and funds returned.

Moral of the story, either verify for sure the seller has the frame in their hands, or search around for someone trustworthy that does. If neither of these situations  can be verified, then be prepared to wait a long time to receive your frame. Do not be in a hurry!

Just my $.02 worth 

Yeah I don't disagree with anything you said there. I will say that i've ordered 4 chiner's including this one, and understand all the implications that go along with agreeing to purchase this type of product. We all know here that the business practices of these companies are... suspect... to say the least (with a couple exceptions). There's impatience on my side for sure, and I have that privileged attitude of the classic american consumer.

At any rate this whole thing is an opinion PSA to those who are considering purchasing from HongFu. Potential customers need to know that if you'd like to amicably back out of the deal they will go the extra mile to make your life a living hell. The only reason i'm not stressed about it is because the CC company already gave me my money back - the only thing I needed to do was refuse the frame at all costs. Others may not be so fortunate.

What irk'd me about HongFu is that they purposefully dragged their feet and gave me the run around, the MOMENT I said "refund" they turned around, finished the frame, painted it, and shipped it within 5 days (or so). After literally 60 days.

One more thing worth speculating: What if they hadn't performed any production or labour before I said "refund"? Is there any way of knowing?  They expected me to pay their arbitrary costs based on no evidence. I could go on and on but you get the idea.

[adbl]

One more thing worth speculating: What if they hadn't performed any production or labour before I said "refund"? Is there any way of knowing?  They expected me to pay their arbitrary costs based on no evidence. I could go on and on but you get the idea.

You are absolutely correct here! Hongfu did a horrible job of communicating with you (probably because they were trying to rip you off). And because of their actions their name is being dragged in the mud, which they deserve!!

[mixlax]

One more thing worth speculating: What if they hadn't performed any production or labour before I said "refund"? Is there any way of knowing?  They expected me to pay their arbitrary costs based on no evidence. I could go on and on but you get the idea.

You are absolutely correct here! Hongfu did a horrible job of communicating with you (probably because they were trying to rip you off). And because of their actions their name is being dragged in the mud, which they deserve!!

+1
And no I don't work ant HongFu.
I am just lurking here to see what frame to buy and from who. Thanks to this thread I will probably not buy from HongFu (One of my original candidates).
I am not arguing against that HongFu have acted as complete a_holes, just saying that when having ordered something (especially custom) have a bit of patience to avoid the mess TS has gotten himself in. You are buing cheap (compared to Scott, Canyon etc) frames from China, not from EU/US retailers.

[Jerryno]

Any update on this?

[mathesonmd]

I've ordered a few frames from Hongfu and have not had these problems. I have usually emailed back and forth with Daisy. I actually have one on order now. My first question is always "do you have X frame in Y size in stock or will I have to wait for it?". I require the largest frames they make, which they don't seem to stock as well. My experience is they have delivered what they said and when they said. I wouldn't trash the whole company on one interaction, but take it as a lesson to get as much info as possible before giving them any money.