Those with AM831 built, are you happy with it if not including flexing issue?

[Snacks]

I have been reluctant to really give my opinion on the matter, hoping I could convince Eddy to do the right thing but after being strung along for the past month , I think it's time to say something.

This was my 5th chinese frame last year. 1 from tantan, 2 velo build, 1 light carbon and the AM831. My experience with tan tan and heidli have been absolutely horrible. Tantan was mostly due to their delayed shipping and the fake tracking numbers provided .however, all 4 frames except the am831 have been without issue. Both velobuilds and light carbon after sale support has been pretty amazing. Especially when you read some horror stories on here or deal with companies like hiedeli/tidace. I've also purchased plenty of parts and gear from China and had mostly positive experiences. Sure there are those who ignore or refuse to help with poor quality or problematic items but i assumed that's what this forum is for, to help provide feedback so others don't go through the same hassle or monetary loss.

This site is the first or second link that shows up when you search for the am831. I would assume most people buying this frame for personal use or on a mass scale would do some research before spending their hard earned money on a product and in doing so will see our reviews ,recommendations or complaints. 

I don't think we should give eddy/heideli a pass because "you should expect this" . There are plenty of reputable companies selling frames and are providing better products,service and after sale support.  Eddy didn't just provide terrible customer service that we can brush off. He legitimately lied twice on  this forum for the sole purpose of selling more flawed frames. I have his comments proving this attached to this post. One was oct 29, and then the next was Dec 3. At this point, who knows when the new rear triangle with be finished. You cant trust the guy to give you an honest answer.  So no one should be buying this frame unless you got money to blow and are willing to test his honesty. Realistically, no one should buy from them again after seeing how this whole thing was handled. I could also go into how I was overcharged and how my frame was painted over a matte back finish rather than sanding that off and applying it over primer. Personally if I could get my money back I'd go with light carbon, Carol was really great and was super quick to get back to me with whatever I needed, or carbonda, which has a proven track record on this site. 

I think we should actually ask to remove him from this forum.  He's lied so we cant trust him and he doesn't provide anything of value. He just advertises their products which we can all view on their webpage without him. 

I bought mine from Winow Cycles, and their attitude is no better.

Window is tantan and they're pretty terrible as well.  I'd never buy anything from them again.

[deucelee]

Thanks for all the replies and considerations, guys.

I agree, Snacks, that the level of customer service and professionalism should be at a higher standard.  Thanks for giving insight that lightcarbon and carbonda are reputable vendors to purchase from. 

Good to hear from many of you that you've enjoyed the bike minus the concern of the flexing.

I called paypal and they're extending my return period another 10 days since usps was closed on the 31st.  I'm going to ponder it over the next day and see if I want to keep or return it.  The poor service definitely leaves a bad taste. Kinda a bummer cus it's painted a nice cobalt blue which I like.  I'll figure something out.

thanks again!

[Jotegr]

I called paypal and they're extending my return period another 10 days since usps was closed on the 31st.  I'm going to ponder it over the next day and see if I want to keep or return it.  The poor service definitely leaves a bad taste. Kinda a bummer cus it's painted a nice cobalt blue which I like.  I'll figure something out.

thanks again!

pretty much any vendor is going to be able to get you a nice cobalt blue if you ask.

[deucelee]

pretty much any vendor is going to be able to get you a nice cobalt blue if you ask.

yeah i know...just that I already have it.  I've painted cars before too so I could prob do it myself if I got a primered or plain version for cheaper.

[FlaMtnBkr]

If you paid PayPal with a credit card, most offer buyer protection just for these types of situations, and usually don't have strict deadlines. Might be worth looking into for those that used one.

[Thrill21]

The original question is are you happy aside from the flexing.. and it seems like a lot of complaining. Buyer beware. Your buying a knockoff enough said...

My impressions have been pretty impressed with finish. This is my 3rd 'knockoff'. What helped me was past buyers who ran into trouble first building, IE: The crown race spacer, odds and ends really - made a huge difference in receiving the bike, having all the parts ready and building it. I am 5'8, riding a medium frame. My buddy is 6' and he rides it very comfortably. Is it too long for me? Maybe a cm or so, but I find I can sit inside the bike when hitting slopes that are long and fast. I got mine in the papaya orange and got some blue details that make it look like a Mclaren F1 car.

Here's my current specs;

Groupset - XT 12 speed, 4 piston brakes
Handlebars; Raceface 6C w/ blue labels
Stem; Raceface turbine stubby 35mm
MEC Grips
Raceface turbine cranks with 32T
Look trail pedals
Maxxis minions
Raceface 30mm rims with 370's

I have spoken to Eddy regarding the rear triangle and I am sitting on the fence. I don't live in a Mountain area, I ride Bromont a lot and local trails when I don't. The bike has been very good so far and you really can't beat the price with shipping to Canada.

Cheers!

[TOLM]

Spent some time researching this frame and decided to go with arc8 frame instead.. Till that hardware issue gets sorted

Pretty good deal via bike discount .. A bit more rear travel that I want but I can live with it. Similar geometry.

And me too having a feeling that Eddie is not reliable as he confirmed to me that rear triangle issue was sorted weeks ago.


https://www.bike-discount.de/en/arc8-extra-mountain-bike-carbon-frame-set-1

[cybrsrce]

Spent some time researching this frame and decided to go with arc8 frame instead.. Till that hardware issue gets sorted

Pretty good deal via bike discount .. A bit more rear travel that I want but I can live with it. Similar geometry.

And me too having a feeling that Eddie is not reliable as he confirmed to me that rear triangle issue was sorted weeks ago.


https://www.bike-discount.de/en/arc8-extra-mountain-bike-carbon-frame-set-1

That is a nice frame, just a little bit more expensive than what most of us paid with shipping, shock, and if you opted for the updated triangle.
They also have the Extra ST with 135mm rear travel, just looks like a different link.

So I don't know if the triangle dates and information is just language barrier or a simple misunderstanding of how industry process works. 

Did they figure it out months ago?
Yes. 

Did they fix the bolt and connection issue with the original triangle?
Unknown.  Workaround is a washer and some thread locker if it was getting loose.  No amount of changes to the bolt attachment is going to make the seat stays flex less which is a bigger problem.

Was there a plan to fix the mold for new frames?
Yes.

Will frames that they have already produced ship with the new triangle?
No.

Will the frame people ordered when they told us about the new triangle get the new triangle mid-transit?
No.  That is what I see in the original thread, "I ordered a week before they told us about the update and I didn't get it! :sad face:"  He said production starts January 17th.  I ordered one within a few hours of Eddy posting and I don't expect to see it until June or July.

Will newly produced frames have the new triangle?
If ordered after January 17th, probably. Especially if it is the same for all frame sizes.

If you order a new frame right now should you specifically ask for the updated triangle?
Absolutely.  If they have stock of smalls with the original design and you order one, what do you think you will get?  The new group buy B frames will have the new triangle according to Haideli, they won't ship for a while.

This is how any other industry works where you get new stock when the old stock is gone.  It feels like I'm mansplaining the situation but people are making a really big deal out of needing to properly torque their bolts for the ride around the neighborhood.  ~€30 (JJJ's mod) is going to make it a great frame for casual to light weight advanced riders - except for poor Snacks, he has frame rub and wear that I don't think anyone else has reported and should get a replacement frame at a minimum.

[emu26]

and most of what you have just posted still points to Haideli (Eddie) knowingly selling and shipping a product not fit for purpose.  It is reprehensible to think they would ship frames with the original rear triangles after they were aware it was a big enough issue for them to have to design a new rear triangle. Assuming of course that is what has happened and that Eddie's comment to their being  anew rear triangle and just more of the same.

[cybrsrce]

and most of what you have just posted still points to Haideli (Eddie) knowingly selling and shipping a product not fit for purpose.  It is reprehensible to think they would ship frames with the original rear triangles after they were aware it was a big enough issue for them to have to design a new rear triangle. Assuming of course that is what has happened and that Eddie's comment to their being  anew rear triangle and just more of the same.

I'll just leave this here - http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3009.msg33195.html#msg33195

[emu26]

Not sure what Airwolf has to do with this frame and the very poor customer support being provided by those flogging this faulty frame.

No where have I said that Haideli is the only chinese direct to consumer seller that doesn't offer good customer support.  I do think they are now probably the best documented for misleading statements to prospective buyers courtesy of Eddie's insistence on spruking this frame.

[cybrsrce]

Not sure what Airwolf has to do with this frame and the very poor customer support being provided by those flogging this faulty frame.

No where have I said that Haideli is the only chinese direct to consumer seller that doesn't offer good customer support.  I do think they are now probably the best documented for misleading statements to prospective buyers courtesy of Eddie's insistence on spruking this frame.

You're overreacting about a bolt problem on a frame that you don't even have.  The triangle is too flexy for heavier riders, most don't even notice it.  Calm down.

[emu26]

You're overreacting about a bolt problem on a frame that you don't even have.  The triangle is too flexy for heavier riders, most don't even notice it.  Calm down.

I think this comment just goes to show how little you have comprehended what I have "gone on about". 

My last comment on this issue so I'll try and make it as clear as possible without being rude.  What I am "going on about" has zero to do with the issues with the actual bike and 100% to do with the way Haideli, through their mouthpiece, Eddie, have responded to numerous genuine customer complaints.

Enjoy your ride.

[cybrsrce]

I think this comment just goes to show how little you have comprehended what I have "gone on about". 

My last comment on this issue so I'll try and make it as clear as possible without being rude.  What I am "going on about" has zero to do with the issues with the actual bike and 100% to do with the way Haideli, through their mouthpiece, Eddie, have responded to numerous genuine customer complaints.

Enjoy your ride.

I understand, I just disagree and think you're overreacting.  I don't know of any open mold resellers that ask how high when a handful of customers asks them to jump.  If you do let us know, they'll get a lot more business.

Enjoy your non-Haideli ride ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Snacks]

I understand, I just disagree and think you're overreacting.  I don't know of any open mold resellers that ask how high when a handful of customers asks them to jump.  If you do let us know, they'll get a lot more business.

Enjoy your non-Haideli ride ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I may actually have been the one over reacting a bit and that's probably due to my unique issue (the frame rub) that Eddy refuses to acknowledge or help with. But going back over the thread , I still stand by what I said.

I don't think any business in the world would ask how high. Maybe a trampoline park? But I can tell you light carbons' and velobuilds after sale support is night and day better than what I have received with heideli. I got any documentation, torque specs,  new bearings or pretty much whatever I needed straight away from Carol at light carbon. I've had an even better experience with Chris from velobuild. If there was ever a problem , I'd show proof with a couple pictures and a replacement or fix was sent ASAP. Not once did I have to argue with them, wait days upon days for a reply or get ignored like with heideli. This is amongst other issues I've had, the two biggest (other than the flex) were the paint quality being terrible and it's been like pulling teeth trying to get any help for this frame rub. I'm not sure how many pictures and emails I've sent but they refuse to do anything about it. Well to be honest, it's not a refusal per say, Eddy just doesn't reply to any email where I bring it up.

In response to your other post -
It's been said a more than a few times now that the design is flawed and it's clearly problematic if a lot of us are going with JJJ's bolts to fix it. Since you agree that they did know about the issue months ago, why is it ok for them to sell off the stock of a frame with a known flaw like this? You say that's how industry works. But if any other company did this wouldn't there be a fix provided at no cost or a recall as is true with auto manufacturers? I can't imagine any consumer in any industry being ok with flawed products being sold and sent out when the issue is known and acknowledged by the company producing it. That would be like samsung still selling the exploding note phones just to finish off current stock before selling ones that don't explode.

Also, I completely understand how heideli can't magically change the rear triangle while the frame is in transit. However, it seems Eddy did confirm the flex was fixed to a couple people but in actuality they got the same frame we did with the same flawed design and flex. Attached are a couple pictures of those comments. If you check the group buy A thread around the times of these comments i think you will find a couple more people saying the same thing.

Maybe I'm a bit naive when it comes to Chinese open mould frames but I don't think this was due to a language barrier or misunderstanding. Which is truely unfortunate, as i was hoping having him here would be a boon for the community.