Unreadable Topic: "VeloBuild Headset Play Issue"

[frankpaul1]

My guess is:

The slit in the back makes the C-Ring more flexible. The previous version was too stiff, which results to needing very high headset preload forces in order to deform the C-Ring and remove the headset play. The newer version is more flexible and then requires less force to deform.

If this is the explanation, wouldn't it suffice to saw a couple of slits in the original C-ring?

[NoGrip61]

I think I have the 2nd generation... If that's the only change (appears to be the case), then I may try to cut a slit/groove in mine to see if it helps since I'm building the bike this weekend.

[coffeebreak]

If this is the explanation, wouldn't it suffice to saw a couple of slits in the original C-ring?

Good point. Also, and I could be wrong but I thought the compression force would be from top to bottom and not sideways/diagonal to actually deform the C ring that way :S

[bvhaute]

[img]My problem seems to be that the height of the c-ring is too small. When I tighten the  top cap, the dust cap gets pressed down onto the head tube from my frame, and not onto the c-ring, which results in my handlebars getting stuck and unable to steer...
In order to fix this problem I ordered some microspacers to put onto the c-ring (see picture).
I had to cut the microspacers though, so they would fit the C-form from the C-ring.
This way I can tighten the top cap without the dust cover getting pressed down onto the top of the head tube.
I wonder if the problem lies with the C-ring (height too low), or the top bearing sitting too low into the head tube ...
Anyhow, I have a bad feeling about the (cut) microspacers and the c-ring, so I would rather have a new C-ring which requires no microspacers. Anyone now if the latest update for the C-ring changed anything on the dimension (height)? 

edit: another possible cause of the problem might be the dimensions of the bearings or maybe top and bottom bearing got switched? Anyone know if the top and bottom bearing have other dimensions and could be installed incorrectly (switched)?

[BerndSon]

Good point. Also, and I could be wrong but I thought the compression force would be from top to bottom and not sideways/diagonal to actually deform the C ring that way :S

tightening force indeed is in the steerer tube axis but in order to compress the c ring in diameter-wise direction there are the 45° chamfers in the bearing as well as the c ring.  This inclined plain results in the radial force that compresses the C-Ring. This compression effect is the main function of the c-ring, -indispensable when it comes to avoiding headset play. (Unless you increase the tightening force way higher than it should be with all of its other drawbacks or try the vice-hack i showed earlier in the 168Thread)

ride on,
bernd

[frankpaul1]

OK, so I fixed the situation pretty easily. I bought the Deda compression ring 45 degrees:



First I sawed the largest part of the top (circa 2mm I guess) with a hacksaw and then I ground the top down a smal bit at a time with a Dremel tool till it was at the correct height to compress correctly but also not leave a gap between the frame and the headset cover (there is still a very minimal gap say 0,5mm). I also used a Deda 70mm expander plug to get a bit more grip while tightening the top cap. No play anymore and a very cheap solution.

[curvenut]

OK, so I fixed the situation pretty easily. I bought the Deda compression ring 45 degrees:



First I sawed the largest part of the top (circa 2mm I guess) with a hacksaw and then I ground the top down a smal bit at a time with a Dremel tool till it was at the correct height to compress correctly but also not leave a gap between the frame and the headset cover (there is still a very minimal gap say 0,5mm). I also used a Deda 70mm expander plug to get a bit more grip while tightening the top cap. No play anymore and a very cheap solution.

would like to have pictures of the final work on the pieces.

I still have difiiculties to figure out the work you did on the piece

[frankpaul1]

Hi, I just assembled everything, so I'll try and explain better. The Deda compression ring is higher than the original provided C-ring. So you need to shave a couple of mm's of the top of the ring. So you grind down the ring to the required height. The smaller bottom part of the Deda ring fits in the bearing perfectly, but if you leave the wider upper part at the original height you will be left with circa 4mm of space between the frame and the headset cover.

I tried to do my best to illustrate in paint . You need to grind the ring down to the red lines. So remove the purple material in smalls steps at a time to check if it is still high enough to compress the headset.

[bvhaute]

OK, so I fixed the situation pretty easily. I bought the Deda compression ring 45 degrees:

I had considered this also as a possible fix to my problem, but it seems that this Deda compression ring is no longer available to purchase. Where did you get it?

[frankpaul1]

I bought it here: https://bicimondo.com/product/3524/deda-elementi-compression-ring-for-dcr-headset-45-x45-pa66-nylon-black

Seems like I bought the last one, but I read this should work too:

https://bicimondo.com/product/3523/deda-elementi-compression-ring-for-acr-headset-36-x45-pa66-nylon-black

[TidyDinosaur]

Couldn't you just rub it over some sanding paper to get the right height? A dremel seems so "crude"

[frankpaul1]

I thought the hacksaw was the "crude" part, but sure you could use sanding paper. But it is very hard nylon, so you'll be at it for a while. The Dremel bit I used was also just sandpaper on a roll, but it went a lot quicker than manually grinding sand paper over the ring:

[Sakizashi]

Hi all, I think I might be able to help with solution to maintain preload. I have been working with the different internal headset routing systems for a while and have been running on my personal bikes a hybrid system using the Deda compression ring and a custom dust cover to mate to the FSA split spacer and ACR / SMR system. Some photos if what I have been working on are below.  I have also been working a generic fitment as well as one specific to the -17 Kalloy uno. All of those designs were designed to reduce stack and are electronic group only as cable housings can't make the tight bends required, but that doesn't have to be the case if more / different spacers are used.

I could adjust the skirt length and thickness of the dust cover to provide a better fit to bikes that do not use a countersunk dust cover, though the system would not have a seal other than what is on the bearing. I would also be willing to make an FSA ACR to Velobuild one piece handlebar adapter plate assuming that most of the frames use the same spacer stack and interface. I would need help getting some measurements of one of the spacers that fits into the bottom of the handlebar or send one to me (and be willing to try out a dust cover and adapter to make sure they fit)

I was previously on the Velobuild forums (2009-2011ish?) and you can find me on a few bike discords as well. This is also a hobby for me and I would price everything at cost + taxes. I will probably eventually open an etsy store or something and these would be about 30USD + shipping with everything MJF printed using Pa12GB + you would need to buy either the Deda headset or the compression ring.

[mesosbrodleto]

Hi everyone - We wanted to share a quick update and let you know we have been listening to your feedback and have designed a new c ring. The new design has a small cut out that allows for a better grip on the steerer to take place once the headset is compressed.

For those that are having issues, please get in touch at info@velobuild.com so we can sort you out with a newly designed c ring. For those that are still using the original or second design without issue, please know you can continue using them without concern!

I have the first version, with the tiny pins on the top. It is almost impossible to mantain the headset tightened, after one or two rides it gets losened.

It is also very noisy, everytime I stand up on pedals, I hear "cracking" noise coming from the stem/headset. It could be due to the 4cm of spacers I am still using, or to the internal cables. I have shimano di2 11v and cable/mechanic brakes.

[bvhaute]

I thought the hacksaw was the "crude" part, but sure you could use sanding paper. But it is very hard nylon, so you'll be at it for a while. The Dremel bit I used was also just sandpaper on a roll, but it went a lot quicker than manually grinding sand paper over the ring:

I managed to find a website that still had the 45x45° DEDA compression ring. When I compare it to the original Velobuild compression ring it looks very similar, but it is +/- 0,5cm higher. I will go for the sanding route with a bosch orbital sanding machine.
Did you manage to get a smooth, flat and parallel surface with the hacksaw and the dremel, because this seems nearly impossible to me?