Seraph Bikes Superlight 836g X68 - Alternative to SL8 Fakes?

[glepore]

That's a stellar weight. I'm at 7.1, but in white, which likely makes up for your fork weight plus...
I went to swap out my expander, and it has a cheap 30g generic plug rather than the deep sl8 clone, which was good news as it came out. I have your 14g one on the way.
Your wheels are 100g lighter than mine, so there's that. But still, its a very lg difference and I'm on a 49.
I doubt on the road it matters a ton, but still, I'm a weenie at heart and its disturbing.
Seatpost parts are here, I'll race you to that 25g savings...

[Bonus79]

Might be a little bit OT and I don't want to sound confrontational, but could you explain to me the allure of putting these decals on your frame? I truly struggle to understand if it is to look cool or to pretend to have the real deal or something else entirely. I personally am more than ok with buying a frame that takes inspiration from others as long as it is generic looking enough (not Dogma or SL8 or Madone for example, but a Factor or an SL7 or other less conspicuous frames might look the same as dozens others) and personalize it with my own decals, but when the frame is one of a kind I would either get the real one or else I would feel like I'm just trying to impress, especially with such high priced originals.
Again, not to judge but I am truly curious to understand the thought process behind it!

On the topic itself, I feel like I dodged a giant bullet after considering both the X65 and X67 and pulling the plug after some dubious responses from Tantan about production, waiting time, measures and such.

Another question I've always asked myself is: why do 99% of those who buy a Chinese/Far East frame prefer not to apply the manufacturer/brand stickers?
Or why does this not happen with Western brands even when they do not directly produce the frame, but buy it from an OEM manufacturer?

[Sander2177]

That's a stellar weight. I'm at 7.1, but in white, which likely makes up for your fork weight plus...
I went to swap out my expander, and it has a cheap 30g generic plug rather than the deep sl8 clone, which was good news as it came out. I have your 14g one on the way.
Your wheels are 100g lighter than mine, so there's that. But still, its a very lg difference and I'm on a 49.
I doubt on the road it matters a ton, but still, I'm a weenie at heart and its disturbing.
Seatpost parts are here, I'll race you to that 25g savings...

Thanks
Wheels are superlight for there depth at 1231grams for 60/65 depth
And the tyres at 180grams each with TPU tubes at 19grams.

I have an excel sheet if you want me to email over a copy just DM me.

 
The extra seat post bits have now arrived in the UK so hopefully will get this done by Friday!
Also ordered a new spare seatpost thought it would e a good idea after modifying the other one!

[neobiker]

Thanks
Wheels are superlight for there depth at 1231grams for 60/65 depth
And the tyres at 180grams each with TPU tubes at 19grams.

I have an excel sheet if you want me to email over a copy just DM me.

 
The extra seat post bits have now arrived in the UK so hopefully will get this done by Friday!
Also ordered a new spare seatpost thought it would e a good idea after modifying the other one!

Maybe just export it to Google Sheet and share it here!

[Tpower59]

What size would you get for 186 cm 88 cm inserm ? 56 or 58 ?

[Bonus79]

Not that i like tantan, but a few thoughts / questions on SPCycle:
they only seem to exist online as an aliexpress seller (Shenzhen dishai industrial co., ltd), which is registered in "Room 206" in a building in Shenzen. Not, let's say, a factory in Xiamen (600km away). Then, SPCycle website takes you to another store front clearly tailored to the west, with the same reference to Shenzhen dishai industrial, which is good, as it implies, that unlike LTWOO, the spcycle store on aliexpress is the same as the online store on www.sp-cycle.com. But neither proves it's an actual factory. Arguably, everything points to the fact it's probably not a factory. None of their content looks like an OEM / factory. They only mention factory space in one sentence somewhere. Maybe it's the retail arm of a manufacturer they're hiding?
Either way, i'd argue SPcycle is less likely than tantan to make their own stuff. To me, they're like velobuild?

I purchased a Spcycle R088 frame, I asked them directly if the R088 frame is produced by them, or if they commissioned it from another manufacturer.
They replied that the mold of the R088 is theirs, that it is made in their factory and that they have not authorized dealers to sell their frame.
Then I told them that TanTan advertises and sells a frame (TT-X70) that seems identical to theirs... they replied that TanTan took only one sample from their factory and that they would not provide any more samples in the future.
I replied them that TanTan took a sample to copy the frame exactly and sell it as TT-X70...I was taken aback by their response: "Yes, this is very likely", as if it were the most normal thing in the world.
They confirmed what I have read on this forum: in the East they have a completely different mentality compared to the Western one and copying the frames of other manufacturers is not (evidently) seen as something unseemly or forbidden/sanctioned and that (except for "premium" brands that try to establish themselves with their own name) wanting to differentiate themselves from other manufacturers is not a priority for them.
Well, I honestly have not understood whether Spcycle is really the manufacturer of the R088 and TT-X70 frames, but I would say that it changes little in practice: it would be like buying a Bottecchia (Italian brand) 8Avio Ultimate, a frame produced and sold by Workswell (WCB-R-316).

[glepore]

I purchased a Spcycle R088 frame, I asked them directly if the R088 frame is produced by them, or if they commissioned it from another manufacturer.
They replied that the mold of the R088 is theirs, that it is made in their factory and that they have not authorized dealers to sell their frame.
Then I told them that TanTan advertises and sells a frame (TT-X70) that seems identical to theirs... they replied that TanTan took only one sample from their factory and that they would not provide any more samples in the future.
I replied them that TanTan took a sample to copy the frame exactly and sell it as TT-X70...I was taken aback by their response: "Yes, this is very likely", as if it were the most normal thing in the world.
They confirmed what I have read on this forum: in the East they have a completely different mentality compared to the Western one and copying the frames of other manufacturers is not (evidently) seen as something unseemly or forbidden/sanctioned and that (except for "premium" brands that try to establish themselves with their own name) wanting to differentiate themselves from other manufacturers is not a priority for them.
Well, I honestly have not understood whether Spcycle is really the manufacturer of the R088 and TT-X70 frames, but I would say that it changes little in practice: it would be like buying a Bottecchia (Italian brand) 8Avio Ultimate, a frame produced and sold by Workswell (WCB-R-316).

There's no reason for them to be transparent with you about the origins of a frameset. Just as tantan isn't transparent about the x68, or the x70. I wouldn't rely upon what they tell you unless you're approaching them to build a couple thousand framesets a year for your bike brand, and even then you better have boots on the ground.

[glepore]

Thanks
Wheels are superlight for there depth at 1231grams for 60/65 depth
And the tyres at 180grams each with TPU tubes at 19grams.

I have an excel sheet if you want me to email over a copy just DM me.

 
The extra seat post bits have now arrived in the UK so hopefully will get this done by Friday!
Also ordered a new spare seatpost thought it would e a good idea after modifying the other one!

I'll dm you...but I can account for most of the weight. At least 300g in the wheels and tires (my50/65 are t800 and 1330, corsa control 30's at 305 or so each and 36g tpu), probs 100g in the crank (sram carbon w/ quarq, carbon ti 48 t/a 33 ) wheeltop vs Ultegra, etc. I have the parts to lighten the seatpost, but cutting mine down won't save much as I can only take about 20mm off. Most bolts have gone ti, but rotors are Campy rather than galfer. Plus the white paint is probably 100-150g heavier than a rtp clear.
I have seatpost parts here and will play with that today after Giro stage is done.

[Sander2177]

I'll dm you...but I can account for most of the weight. At least 300g in the wheels and tires (my50/65 are t800 and 1330, corsa control 30's at 305 or so each and 36g tpu), probs 100g in the crank (sram carbon w/ quarq, carbon ti 48 t/a 33 ) wheeltop vs Ultegra, etc. I have the parts to lighten the seatpost, but cutting mine down won't save much as I can only take about 20mm off. Most bolts have gone ti, but rotors are Campy rather than galfer. Plus the white paint is probably 100-150g heavier than a rtp clear.
I have seatpost parts here and will play with that today after Giro stage is done.

That's fair enough 

I've attached the spreadsheet anyway in case it's useful for anyone — hopefully it opens fine.
I’ve also added a few more estimated weights, and once I get the last few bits I'm waiting on (like the XMS chainrings), I’ll update it again.
I could potentially save another ~100g by switching to an 11–34T ZTTO cassette.
I’ve ordered a 50/60 wheelset from XMC which should come in around 1200g — maybe a bit under — though these are intended for the SL8.
I'm also looking into a shallower set of 45/50mm wheels from Zen Carbon, built with carbon/titanium spokes and the new H-Works 20/20 spoke-hole hub that’s due for release soon. That hub is claimed at 227g, which would bring the wheelset to around 1011g.
Alternatively, I can get the same rims built with the H-Works SR270 hub, bringing the total to 1060g ±20g — for $635 USD including taxes and delivery, which is a great price. This setup has a 90kg rider weight limit.
I’ve asked H-Works if they offer the new hub in a 24/24 spoke-hole option, which would increase the rider weight limit. But I’m not sure if the added stiffness and durability would be worth the cost and (possibly negligible) weight difference, especially since the SR270 already weighs about the same.

[Serge_K]

There's no reason for them to be transparent with you about the origins of a frameset.

That's a dystopian view of the world. For clarity, i disagree.

I've attached the spreadsheet anyway in case it's useful for anyone — hopefully it opens fine.
I could potentially save another ~100g by switching to an 11–34T ZTTO cassette.
I can get the same rims built with the H-Works SR270 hub, bringing the total to 1060g ±20g — for $635 USD including taxes and delivery, which is a great price. This setup has a 90kg rider weight limit.

Thx for the xls. Me likey xls.
ZTTO cassette: we (several of us) run the ZTTO full steel CNC machined ones, most recently they weigh 182g or so, I can recommend them, although we run ltwoo and not shimano. But the DA price is just silly, especially for a consumable. We stopped buying the half steel half alu ones, because the alu cogs end up slipping after 5000km or so, and it's sketchy AF (if you race you'll crash). Likewise, we run cheap chains because they wear out.
Where can you get such wheels at such price? 90kg rider weight limit, i wouldn't want to risk it, but i'm curious.

[kubackje]

That's a dystopian view of the world. For clarity, i disagree.

Thx for the xls. Me likey xls.
ZTTO cassette: we (several of us) run the ZTTO full steel CNC machined ones, most recently they weigh 182g or so, I can recommend them, although we run ltwoo and not shimano. But the DA price is just silly, especially for a consumable. We stopped buying the half steel half alu ones, because the alu cogs end up slipping after 5000km or so, and it's sketchy AF (if you race you'll crash). Likewise, we run cheap chains because they wear out.
Where can you get such wheels at such price? 90kg rider weight limit, i wouldn't want to risk it, but i'm curious.

Then get an expensive Chain, wax it and enjoy slow wear rate of the chain and other components. At the end it will be cheaper.

[Sander2177]

That's a dystopian view of the world. For clarity, i disagree.

Thx for the xls. Me likey xls.
ZTTO cassette: we (several of us) run the ZTTO full steel CNC machined ones, most recently they weigh 182g or so, I can recommend them, although we run ltwoo and not shimano. But the DA price is just silly, especially for a consumable. We stopped buying the half steel half alu ones, because the alu cogs end up slipping after 5000km or so, and it's sketchy AF (if you race you'll crash). Likewise, we run cheap chains because they wear out.
Where can you get such wheels at such price? 90kg rider weight limit, i wouldn't want to risk it, but i'm curious.

Glad you like it!

[Sander2177]

I’ll take a look at the full steel ZTTO—sounds like a solid recommendation.

The wheels I mentioned are from Zen Carbon: https://zencarbonbike.com/road-wheels/. They're based in Xiamen. The thing is, I can get dealer pricing from Winspace, and back when I was ordering their products, I used to deal with a lady named Zara. She left Winspace and moved to Zen. She added me on Instagram, and we’ve been in contact a few times—I made some inquiries but never ended up purchasing anything.

Zen seems legit—there’s a lot of content on Instagram showing customer bikes and builds.

https://www.instagram.com/zencarbonbike?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw==

I'm a bit of a weight weenie, so my thought was to get something around 1000g but not super shallow. I was racking my brain today trying to remember her name and the company, and finally did. I DMed her on Instagram yesterday to ask about T1000/T1100 rims that follow the newer trend of wider internal widths (24–26mm).

She offered me some hubs, but none of the OEMs seem to beat the weight of the H-Works SR270 hubs I mentioned earlier. I brought those up, and it seems they must use them too—she said she’d get me a price.

If you had a H-works SR261 hub 24/24 spoke this would increase the rider weight limit to 110kgs with about a 19g weight penalty

Here’s what she came back with and these rims are available in 35-60mm
Rims
*Inner 24mm，T1000;
Front 45mm -340g；Rear 50mm-360g
Spokes：Carbon,width 3.1mm,weight 2.1g/pcs
Hub:H-works Hub SR270 ,20/20H,276g
Wheelset weight:1060g+/-20g
Price:635USD/Set including shipping and custom tax

[glepore]

That's a dystopian view of the world. For clarity, i disagree.

I guess I worded that poorly. What I meant to say was that there's no reason for one to expect, given the general practices of the majority of the frame vendors discussed here, that a vendor will provide a consumer  with accurate information regarding the origin of a frame.

My own viewpoint is that the vendor's reputation matters, but the actual factory much less so. We trust the major brands to source their product appropriately and to stand behind product that fails in use within a reasonable or warranty period. We don't criticize Specialized because they have an unnamed factory in Asia produce their frames. Factor is slightly more transparent in that they acknowledge the rough actual cost and the region of production, but even they don't identify their factory that I'm aware of.

[patliean1]

Wait so TanTan lurks this thread, never chimes in or engages its customer base, but steals photos for Instagram?
I've emailed plenty of my official photos to TanTan for usage and promotion. It's just not great optics to grab photos without tagging. Especially incomplete builds  Sorry @Sander2177

https://www.instagram.com/p/DKMHB6huvkE/