Elves Falath EVO 2023

[radfactor]

With such weight, I do not believe it uses a lot of T1000 carbon for the construction.
UCI certified just make it looks good on paper.

[Sebastian]

I'm really intrigued. The assumption with the UCI approval besides safety and testing, is that Elves really wants to make this their flagship frameset to compete with the likes of Winspace and Yoeleo. I'm hesitant to also mention SEKA because this new Elves Falath weighs about 400g heavier. Not a deal breaker for me since overall system weight is drastically more important. And it is an aero frame.

Still scratching my head though over the geometry (3XL), particularly the reach since it's a racing frame. My 2022 Allez Sprint (size 56) has a reach of 398mm and I'm running a 130mm stem. This setup is practically identical to my Winspace 1500 (size L) with 125mm (effectively 140mm) integrated bars.

Hoping Elves offers an integrated bar with a 130mm stem.

It says it's been tested under the ISO 4210 protocol. As far as I know, that's just the basic requirement that anyone who wants to sell cycling parts in the Western World needs to conform to anyway. Even the super cheap options like Velobuild and the likes. To me, that's just marketing.
Also, who cares about UCI certification? Isn't that only really relevant for elite racers? In all the races I have ever done no one ever weighed my bike or asked for the UCI label.

They do offer a 130mm cockpit. You can see the details on the Elves Australia website, where this frame is available on pre-order.

[RDY]

After watching the Cam Nicholls video, am I the only one who doesn't think this bike looks fast? It looks like it was designed to have the appearance of being aero from the side profile, but clearly fails in several areas. The frontal profile on the head tube and fork is super chunky compared to the Falath Pro. Everyone knows frontal area=drag. There's also a lot of weird tube profiles, the seat tube and gusset have a really square frontal profile, and the top-down cross-section of the head-tube right behind the steerer doesn't really taper, instead terminating in a chunky square flat back like on a Trek Madone. This area of the head-tube is probably the most important part to make as narrow as possible since it gets the cleanest air. But then the downtube narrows and never widens again to shield the water bottle. It's backwards of what you want, which is narrow up top and a wider, flatter back down low to shield the bottle. I just don't get it. I'm not an aerodynamics expert but this bike seems to just violate a bunch of aero principles I know of. I wouldn't be surprised if the outgoing model is faster with bottles on.

That and it's heavy. I initially saw online rumors that the frame would be ~900gr. Now 400 grams over that? Even heavier than the outgoing model? I can't see this being popular.

I think both are ID52 headtubes so I'd be surprised if there was much difference.  Also the frontal area of bike is a red herring.  It's the frontal area of the rider and whether air will attach to the bike or rider.  Any increase in head tube area will be minute, if there is any.  Air should in theory attach much better to this frame than the prior one.  Infill / compensation triangles are massive compared to the previous one.  Hence why it was also never going to either be super light or as light as the previous one.

What matters most and we still don't know is what the spacer situation is, and what the third party / stem cockpit situation is.

Also from my perspective, they had mentioned a 61 size, but still no geo forthcoming.

[flogtun]

Also from my perspective, they had mentioned a 61 size, but still no geo forthcoming.

Geometry geeks seem to have it listed for all sizes.

->  https://geometrygeeks.bike/bike/elves-falath-evo-2023/

It is a strange geo and sizing compared to other comparable bikes...

[flogtun]

Also from my perspective, they had mentioned a 61 size, but still no geo forthcoming.

Guess you meant the geo for just 61.
No that's not listed / mentioned anywhere
Even at the end of this page - where there's quite a lot of info
https://www.elvesbikes.co.uk/falath-evo-2023

[Velovelo]

What matters most and we still don't know is what the spacer situation is, and what the third party / stem cockpit situation is.
Also from my perspective, they had mentioned a 61 size, but still no geo forthcoming.

This makes or break the success of this frame.

For the pros and flexible riders, this geometry looks like the perfect stack to reach ratio. But there should always be room for the average rider to easily play around with stack, stem length, bar width etc.
The "aero profile" issues or weight is subjective especially for the average rider and can be compensated through other means (aero posture, aero bottles, lighter components etc).
It is always about the rider and if the rider can be made to fit nicely to this frame then it really looks like an affordable, stylish dedicated aero bike.

[dsveddy]

The "aero profile" issues or weight is subjective especially for the average rider and can be compensated through other means (aero posture, aero bottles, lighter components etc).
It is always about the rider and if the rider can be made to fit nicely to this frame then it really looks like an affordable, stylish dedicated aero bike.

I beg to disagree. The geometry is a dime a dozen in the highish-end Chinese DTC market, Yoeleo R12, Seka Exceed, and the outgoing Falath Pro are all extremely similar in that regard. So we're really down to discussing quality, price, and adherence to design goals (i.e. aero and weight).

[Sebastian]

I think that they've made the seat tube considerably longer on this than it would be on a frame with a conventional cockpit setup. I think they did this to be able to integrate the front end the way they did without having to give the frame a rather drastic sloping top tube (like on the Look 795 Aerolight). That's why the sizes are a bit misleading, IMO. As is so often the case. The XL59 size to me looks rather like a conventional 56 if you look at the stack and reach figures.
I think taller people will have a hard time to make this frame fit. You'd need a pretty long stem and - if the stack is too low - some kind of spacer solution. Elves does offer a bar with 130mm stem length. But to be honest, at 190cm/6ft2 I'd probably have a hard time fitting on this even on the biggest size with the longest cockpit. The only frame I ever had that was this short on the TT was a cyclocross frame. And I sold it because it felt too cramped.

[RDY]

Guess you meant the geo for just 61.
No that's not listed / mentioned anywhere
Even at the end of this page - where there's quite a lot of info
https://www.elvesbikes.co.uk/falath-evo-2023

They made several social media posts including a size 61, but geo hasn't been released.

[RDY]

They made several social media posts including a size 61, but geo hasn't been released.

Had it confirmed that there will be a 61, but no geo yet.  They're going to need to boost the stack a shitload.  Their suggested sizing chart currently suggests that people up to 198cm can ride the 59.  Maybe if their arms are longer than their legs?

[Sebastian]

No one has posted this yet: Cam Nicholls' build video for the Elves Falath.
Seems like the quality and finishing of frame and fork are very good. No issues during the build process.
Frame weight is a little underwhelming at 1300g for a size 54.
Final build weight with fairly lightweight parts (without pedals) is 7.9kg which puts it more or less where to be expected for a modern chunky aero bike.

They're also saying that the frameset will be delivered with 30mm worth of spacers. Too bad they themselves didn't have any so we still don't know what that solution is gonna look like.

[patliean1]

We have to come to terms with the fact not every bike on the market is designed fit everyone. While this should be obvious, there's always going to be a subset of potential customers who feel alienated when a newly released frame/bike doesn't fit their geometry. This is especially true with aero frames for some reason...

I have been really interested in the SEKA Exceed for the past year. Going back and forth on whether I could make the frame geometry "work" for my needs. Unfortunately even their 130mm integrated cockpit/stem is not enough reach for the frame size I need. And that's okay. No use spending my hard-earned money on a frame that wasn't designed for me in the first place. This new Falath EVO is dangerously close to also being too short for my geometry. We shall see how it plays out.

Plenty of reasons why someone would prefer an aero frame versus an endurance or lightweight frame. Even if not for actual racing or the perceived aerodynamic benefits, they simply look cool. And look fast. We are free to spend our money however we please and the market ultimately will dictate how successful these niche frames will be.

[Sebastian]

We have to come to terms with the fact not every bike on the market is designed fit everyone.

True. Integrated one piece cockpits - as good as they may look - don’t really help with that either.
Still, I think that particulary with B2C sellers from China and new brands like Elves which AFAIK have have their biggest turnover in Asia, there’s very few frame offerings for normal sized Europeans and Americans. Sizes usually fit people with maximum average height, sometimes barely.
But maybe that’ll change as sales in the Western world increase.

You could of course always go down the route of using stem and bars and adjust the fit. Slap on a massively long stem and feel like a world tour pro. 
I think Jonas Rutsch of team EF rides a ridiculous 150mm stem on his Super Six EVO. He’s pretty tall. His bike probably steers about as quickly as a bus.

[Sebastian]

https://www.velonews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/04/Rutsch-Cannondale-SuperSix-EVO-with-170mm-stem-02.jpg?crop=600:337&width=600

I correct myself. Rutsch rode a 170mm stem at Paris-Roubaix 2021. 
Didn’t seem to bother him. He came in 11th. He probably had very compliant handlebars with that kind of stem length.

[patliean1]

You could of course always go down the route of using stem and bars and adjust the fit. Slap on a massively long stem and feel like a world tour pro. 
I think Jonas Rutsch of team EF rides a ridiculous 150mm stem on his Super Six EVO. He’s pretty tall. His bike probably steers about as quickly as a bus.

Haha I run 130mm -17 stems on all my aero bikes. Can't imagine what a 140/150 would feel like, but then again pro riders probably prioritize stability over maneuverability like crit racers.

Great point about Chinese brands catering their frame dimensions to their Asian markets. One thing I wish ALL Chinese brands could do is at least offer a headset/spacer combo that allows for routing the cables through the headset top cap rather than only fully internal.