Winspace C5 BB concerns/carbon quality

[Blueberry]

well, no response from Winspace and now the tracking says it is undeliverable and being disposed of according to local guidelines.... I have paid them $1580 USD for a $1380 frame and have nothing to show for it... The whole thing feels pretty scammy.

I sent them an email with the attached screenshot and just send "please send a replacement frameset as soon as possible." But I'm not too hopeful.

[Serge_K]

well, no response from Winspace and now the tracking says it is undeliverable and being disposed of according to local guidelines.... I have paid them $1580 USD for a $1380 frame and have nothing to show for it... The whole thing feels pretty scammy.

I sent them an email with the attached screenshot and just send "please send a replacement frameset as soon as possible." But I'm not too hopeful.

dude that's F'ed up. Start spamming their instagram posts. Hurt them publicly. Say you're being ghosted and you feel you're being scammed. Make them reply. This is unacceptable.

[Blueberry]

I'm not on Instagram or Facebook :/ if they don't agree to send a replacement asap I'll try to find some way to spam them though. At the very least, I can write a 1 star review...

[BeR]

the longer this drags out, the more annoyed I get. The returned frame has been sitting in a warehouse in Shenzhen for 11 days because they messed up the commercial invoice. They classified it as a "sample" rather than a "return," which is a thing they do to avoid import duties. They also declared the value as 150 USD, which is another standard way to avoid import duties. I'm not sure which part (or maybe it was both) the customs clearance people didn't like. I tried to send an updated invoice a few days ago but it's still sitting there so I'm not sure they were happy enough with my update. I also asked Winspace to deal with it earlier last week, because it was their mess up to begin with. So far they have done nothing.

Winspace won't send a replacement until they receive the original frame back... and it's starting to feel like they're actively trying to not get the returned frame 

Have you tried to post your bad experience on social media (youtube, ...) and comments all the videos or posts which promote this brand ?

[00Garza]

Have you tried to post your bad experience on social media (youtube, ...) and comments all the videos or posts which promote this brand ?

This is a good strategy. Hit up their popular influencers and try to get some traction in the comments. Tag winspace as much as possible.

[Blueberry]

This is a good strategy. Hit up their popular influencers and try to get some traction in the comments. Tag winspace as much as possible.

I do think this is a good idea, I'll definitely go down that road if I need.
Once I sent the screenshot of UPS saying the frame was undeliverable to Winspace that seemed to motivate them to finally sort out the customs issue. The tracking has updated again, now it's back to just saying that its "pending a resolution" rather than "undeliverable." I think they'll send the stupid replacement at some point but this whole situation is still really frustrating. I would hope the extra mark up on their frames could go to better customer support but I guess it does not.

After bugging the support agent on their website's chat, they emailed me back and said they're working on the customs situation (this time I think they might be telling the truth, based on the updated tracking) and they think the returned frame will arrive to them this week.

[noseparade]

How did you pay them? if it was through VISA or Paypal you can ask for a charge back (paypal calls them disputes). I had to open one with ICAN when they sent me a frame with a messed up headtube. Money was sent back to me within the week

[Blueberry]

How did you pay them? if it was through VISA or Paypal you can ask for a charge back (paypal calls them disputes). I had to open one with ICAN when they sent me a frame with a messed up headtube. Money was sent back to me within the week

I paid with a credit card, I am waiting to receive the replacement before taking any action though.

After 3 weeks, the frame made it back to Winspace, they still claim it is within their standards, which tells me their standards are crap and people shouldn't give them their money. They confirmed they received the frame and told me I could proceed with the exchange, or if I wanted a refund, they would give me a refund but only for the 1380 USD I initially paid, not the additional 200 USD I paid for "shipping" the returned frame. To me, this seemed ridiculous. It says right in the the memo line for the additional payment that it was for the exchange service, not "shipping." Seems like the very definition of a bait and switch. Pretty darn scammy, holy cow. The only reason I am accepting a new/exchanged frame is because it's the frame my friend wanted. If it was for me, I would have just sent it back, done a chargeback and been done with Winspace forever.

[JohnnyRabbit]

I would convince your friend to get refunded and chargeback as you are going to be the one dealing with them if something else happen but I might be wrong.

I didn't expect to see that coming from Winspace. Looks like they are now taking their customers for granted since they build a reasonably good reputation.

I only dealt with Carbonda so far and they argued with me on a defect inside near the headtube of my CFR1056 and kept telling me it's normal.

Influencers and such get the pretty frames no doubt.

This was my first and last buy from a chinese factory.

[Serge_K]

This was my first and last buy from a chinese factory.

So you're left with buying frames from Time, then? I love what they're doing, but it's quite a budget.

[JohnnyRabbit]

So you're left with buying frames from Time, then? I love what they're doing, but it's quite a budget.

I meant that I'm mostly done with carbon in general for frames. A Time would be very nice and a safer investment on the long term in my opinion. I will just stick with aluminum and steel from now on! 

[Blueberry]

One week ago today, I told Winspace that if they did not ship the replacement frame by March 28th, I would file a dispute with my credit card company but would cancel the dispute if/when I receive the replacement frame in acceptable condition. I wanted to do this because, as I told them, "My bank allows 60 days from the charge date to file a dispute, and this window is closing soon."

They did not respond directly to this email but emailed me back 4 days later to confirm that they received my frame back and that "upon the inspection, the BB area you complaint, is within our standard." On April 1 they emailed me to tell me the replacement had shipped. Then they started emailing me at 6am (my time, 9pm their time) on April 3 to tell me that they could not proceed with the shipment unless I cancel the dispute. I did not cancel the dispute as they have sent me no proof they shipped the frame and I have not received anything. 

Maybe this is a bad habit but almost every time Winspace emails me, I copy/paste it into ChatGPT and ask if they're acting sus. ChatGPT pretty much always says, yes. In this case it also said, in bold letters, "Do not cancel the dispute until you confirm the shipment is real." along with a few other helpful things including, "That sounds like a classic pressure tactic to get you to drop the dispute. If you cancel it, you may lose any leverage you have to get your money back if they continue to delay or don’t ship at all."

It also all seems ridiculous, considering I gave them advanced notice this was going to happen, and they never directly responded.

[dolph]

Terrible service, I really regret buying from them. I hope that my frame arrives in OK condition, I was expecting a decent product and good service in case it wasn't. Sadly, it seems that winspace has gone cheap.

[Blueberry]

Terrible service, I really regret buying from them. I hope that my frame arrives in OK condition, I was expecting a decent product and good service in case it wasn't. Sadly, it seems that winspace has gone cheap.

Hopefully there's no issues for you but keep us posted!

[Serge_K]

One week ago today, I told Winspace that if they did not ship the replacement frame by March 28th, I would file a dispute with my credit card company but would cancel the dispute if/when I receive the replacement frame in acceptable condition. I wanted to do this because, as I told them, "My bank allows 60 days from the charge date to file a dispute, and this window is closing soon."

They did not respond directly to this email but emailed me back 4 days later to confirm that they received my frame back and that "upon the inspection, the BB area you complaint, is within our standard." On April 1 they emailed me to tell me the replacement had shipped. Then they started emailing me at 6am (my time, 9pm their time) on April 3 to tell me that they could not proceed with the shipment unless I cancel the dispute. I did not cancel the dispute as they have sent me no proof they shipped the frame and I have not received anything. 

Maybe this is a bad habit but almost every time Winspace emails me, I copy/paste it into ChatGPT and ask if they're acting sus. ChatGPT pretty much always says, yes. In this case it also said, in bold letters, "Do not cancel the dispute until you confirm the shipment is real." along with a few other helpful things including, "That sounds like a classic pressure tactic to get you to drop the dispute. If you cancel it, you may lose any leverage you have to get your money back if they continue to delay or don’t ship at all."

It also all seems ridiculous, considering I gave them advanced notice this was going to happen, and they never directly responded.

Man, fuck them. to anyone reading this, this is a cautionary tale about branding / marketing vs substance.
No, spending more doesnt (automatically) mean you get better stuff, or better service.

I hope they're going bankrupt, which would explain the desperation, because if they actively want to dig their own grave behaving like this, they're doing beautiful.

Maybe tell them that if you happen to be refunded by the card company AND receive the frame that's up to spec, then you'll send them the money again, because it'd be dishonest not to.

Maybe the worst part of all this is that garbage is officially and formally within Winspace specs. Not unlike Tavelo making BB holes that dont fit a BB.