Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: Requiem84 on February 05, 2026, 03:52:18 AM
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For transparancy: I am an official partner of XMCS for the Netherlands. We are in daily contact with Peter on new products and developments. In that sense we have q bit more insights - which we can share here (after checking with Peter whether it is confidential or not 😉).
There are two new XMCS road frames coming. No final names yet, although we have designed branding and naming. Still tbc how this will play out.
1 frame is more aero focused, whilst retaining a relatively light weight (930g, size M, unpainted). The other frame is a bit more allround, although the geometry is quite similar. Bit more exposed seat post for compliance, slightly lighter weight (haven’t heard the exact weight yet).
I’ll keep posting updates here when I can. Size M aero frame testing is pretty much completed. Due to CNY finalizing for shipping will take a bit longer. I’m hearing availability starting end of April / May.
Attached some photo’s that we can share already.
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Will the price be the same if we order from XMCS directly or your store ?
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We apply exactly the same prices as XMCS: xmcs price + shipping + 5% paypal fee * exchange rate USD to EUR. We can also sell from stock in NL, but we’re still working on the pricing for that given the extra shipping leg etc.
We will build up the new aero model once it’s available so people can test ride it, incl of course XMCS wheels, XMCS handlebar (little surprise coming here too maybe 😉), XMCS chaingring and cranks etc.
Our website: www.xmcs.nl
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/xmcsnl?igsh=eTdhaWlwZThldTM4&utm_source=qr
On the official XMCS website you will see my name as official partner. So you can even google me to see if I exist ;-).
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The frames look great, do you know the tire clearance?
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Nice to see the first actual photos. Looks great! I hope to place an order later in the year when XS or S becomes available. Can I check if you will be posting from NL or the good are delivered from China to the customer? I ask because I am in the UK, so posting from the NL more likely to result in high customs charges vs receiving direct from China. So for UK customers it may make sense to order direct from XMCS…
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The frames look great, do you know the tire clearance?
Tbc: 32mm, maybe a bit more. Peter, feel free to jump in here too with more tech details.
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Nice to see the first actual photos. Looks great! I hope to place an order later in the year when small becomes available. Can I check if you will be posting from NL or the good are delivered from China to the customer? I ask because I am in the UK, so posting from the NL more likely to result in high customs charges vs receiving direct from China. So for UK customers it may make sense to order direct from XMCS…
We can do both, but for UK you may just as well order with XMCS/Peter directly. Only benefit if you order with me is that regardless of the way of shipping, we are your contact point if there is an issue, or if you need to ship back something for warranty/repairs. Given the high quality standard of XMCS this shouldn't happen much anyway.
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Any details on the seatpost for the aero frame - will there be setback options or just one option? If so, what is the setback? :)
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Any details on the seatpost for the aero frame - will there be setback options or just one option? If so, what is the setback? :)
Haven’t seen/heard about a setback option yet.
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Haven’t seen/heard about a setback option yet.
Aero frame will have 0 and 15mm offset seatposts (info from Peter)
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Cant wait to have more info and pics of the all round frame!
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Tbc: 32mm, maybe a bit more. Peter, feel free to jump in here too with more tech details.
35mm clearance for both frames confirmed.
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Cant wait to have more info and pics of the all round frame!
Your question is my demand, see attached.
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We apply exactly the same prices as XMCS: xmcs price + shipping + 5% paypal fee * exchange rate USD to EUR. We can also sell from stock in NL, but we’re still working on the pricing for that given the extra shipping leg etc.
We will build up the new aero model once it’s available so people can test ride it, incl of course XMCS wheels, XMCS handlebar (little surprise coming here too maybe 😉), XMCS chaingring and cranks etc.
Our website: www.xmcs.nl
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/xmcsnl?igsh=eTdhaWlwZThldTM4&utm_source=qr
On the official XMCS website you will see my name as official partner. So you can even google me to see if I exist ;-).
What do you mean with surprise ? :P Lighter or in a design way? :o It is different from what other brands make?
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Wow, the aero frame is looking really good - well done Peter!
AND, you've went for the 2 bolt saddle clamp design which I think can't be beaten for its simplicity and ease of micro adjustment, so thank you for that - plus zero setback option which is also essential these days.
Really looking forward to getting the full specs on this and final cost in a 54cm frame.
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Would love to see:
1. 40mm clearance on the all road
2. storage compartment and bento mounts on the all road too-seems strange not to have them-no one really likes a saddle bag or overloaded pockets.
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Your question is my demand, see attached.
I probabily found my next frame ;D
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Would love to see:
1. 40mm clearance on the all road
2. storage compartment and bento mounts on the all road too-seems strange not to have them-no one really likes a saddle bag or overloaded pockets.
Fully agree!
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Would love to see:
1. 40mm clearance on the all road
2. storage compartment and bento mounts on the all road too-seems strange not to have them-no one really likes a saddle bag or overloaded pockets.
It's an all round or all road? I think is different...
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What do you mean with surprise ? :P Lighter or in a design way? :o It is different from what other brands make?
I will share once this is a bit further. :).
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Wow, the aero frame is looking really good - well done Peter!
AND, you've went for the 2 bolt saddle clamp design which I think can't be beaten for its simplicity and ease of micro adjustment, so thank you for that - plus zero setback option which is also essential these days.
Really looking forward to getting the full specs on this and final cost in a 54cm frame.
Price is expected to be 1650 USD for the aero set and 1450 USD for the allrounder.
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Would love to see:
1. 40mm clearance on the all road
2. storage compartment and bento mounts on the all road too-seems strange not to have them-no one really likes a saddle bag or overloaded pockets.
I think there is room for these type of frames. But instead of thinking in separate frames, I think brands will have to start thinking in line-ups for each segment.
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For transparancy: I am an official partner of XMCS for the Netherlands. We are in daily contact with Peter on new products and developments. In that sense we have q bit more insights - which we can share here (after checking with Peter whether it is confidential or not 😉).
Congrats! I don't know if this is an incremental step for you or a big one, but it feels like a big win for the Chinese sellers on here that they can grow and forge relationships here.
I will share once this is a bit further. :).
As my own handlebar project faces delays and complications, not going to lie, this scares me a bit. More than that, I am more excited to see what direction Peter and co are taking this in.
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Congrats! I don't know if this is an incremental step for you or a big one, but it feels like a big win for the Chinese sellers on here that they can grow and forge relationships here.
I am very thankful for both CT and WW, as I learned a huge amount here and get introduced to a number of great brands and people. With XMCS standing out for me, for reasons mentioned above, but also because Peter feels truly involved in how people like his products. That’s why I proposed to him to become an official partner. I feel the quality of his products (and several other Chinese brands) are higher than a lot of more expensive Western brands, but people feel a bit scared to give their money to someone far away they don’t know. Putting someone local on the ground seemed like a good idea to me. And it’s been a lot of fun so far, with a few new things in the pipeline on which we could give input.
As my own handlebar project faces delays and complications, not going to lie, this scares me a bit. More than that, I am more excited to see what direction Peter and co are taking this in.
Don’t expect too radical things for the handlebar. I think you’re more on the experimental part of the spectrum.
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Love the quality of XMCS! Should have mine together this weekend.
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The frames look great overall. The only thing that looks somewhat off is the fork on the aero frame. The XMCS aero frame seems to be doing something like the Quick Pro ER:ONE or the BMC Teammachine R. The angle on the sharp, ridge-like part of the fork on the two mentioned frames are parallel to the ground, whereas on the XMCS aero frame, the sharp, ridge-like area seems to be angled upward. Unless my eyes are playing tricks, I guess this is intentional or perhaps an overlooked aspect? Not an aero engineer. Just my observation.
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You are correct. I suspect another error this fork makes is that the upper part of the fork blade didn't account for the shift in angle, so the profile that the wind sees is that of an upward angled wing, not a horizontal one. It's impossible to tell from the limited photos, but the angle of the transition doen't give me confidence. This is something I warned of in the XMCS suggestions thread.
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The aero frame turned out great! I'm seriously considering it in XL!
Is the frame compatible with mechanical shifting?
I know we're in 2026 but I love my mechanical Ultegra.
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Price is expected to be 1650 USD for the aero set and 1450 USD for the allrounder.
What does the 1650 include? Pricing seems to be creeping up but then again it's across the board really, I remember my cs-r01 and 50mm wheels costing circa 1500 euro delivered a year ago.
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1. Integrated first spacer into frameset
2. Not too long seat tube to have some suspension in seat post
3. Riser handlebar (+20mm).
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You are correct. I suspect another error this fork makes is that the upper part of the fork blade didn't account for the shift in angle, so the profile that the wind sees is that of an upward angled wing, not a horizontal one. It's impossible to tell from the limited photos, but the angle of the transition doen't give me confidence. This is something I warned of in the XMCS suggestions thread.
This is what you mean? It's about 8 degrees tilt. No idea what the effect on the airflow on the inside of the fork would be, especially if you take the rotating wheel into account which might redirect the flow. I would be surprised if XMCS did some CFD on it, let alone if other brands did such a study specifically with a rotating wheel. The effect could be negative, neglectable or positve. Who knows...
(https://i.ibb.co/60nTMrV7/Screenshot-2026-02-06-121050.jpg)
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The aero frame turned out great! I'm seriously considering it in XL!
Is the frame compatible with mechanical shifting?
I know we're in 2026 but I love my mechanical Ultegra.
Yes - compatible with mechanical - same as the current GT frame.
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What does the 1650 include? Pricing seems to be creeping up but then again it's across the board really, I remember my cs-r01 and 50mm wheels costing circa 1500 euro delivered a year ago.
Frame + hardware.
Good thing is Dollar is quite low…
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Price is expected to be 1650 USD for the aero set and 1450 USD for the allrounder.
This prices me out then. With paint, shipping and PayPal fees, that will put it at US$2,000.
Given aero frames are all the rage now, I suspect we will see many other "lightweight" aero frames come out this year.
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This prices me out then. With paint, shipping and PayPal fees, that will put it at US$2,000.
Given aero frames are all the rage now, I suspect we will see many other "lightweight" aero frames come out this year.
I’m expecting (standard) paint to be included in the price. USD price with shipping I’m expecting closer to 1800usd. All tbc of course.
There will be other options like you say, and depending on your use case they may be a better fit. The selling point for XMCS is a high standard of engineering quality, quality control and after sales service, as everything is designed, manufactured and tested in house (we regularly post some videos of the testing this frame was going through on our Instagram).
But I’m not under the illusion that the XMCS aero frame is always the best option for everyone :-).
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This is what you mean? It's about 8 degrees tilt. No idea what the effect on the airflow on the inside of the fork would be, especially if you take the rotating wheel into account which might redirect the flow. I would be surprised if XMCS did some CFD on it, let alone if other brands did such a study specifically with a rotating wheel. The effect could be negative, neglectable or positve. Who knows...
(https://i.ibb.co/60nTMrV7/Screenshot-2026-02-06-121050.jpg)
I’m obviously not the most objective person, but we will do some outdoor aero testing with the frame once we have build it up. With the Gibli aero sensor that is. We can compare with an Aeroad. Would love to borrow a QP ER:One to include in the test :)
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The problem with going close to the 2k usd mark is you are then competing with a different level of competition (winspace, Tavelo etc.) which will all have a higher level of resale value and high quality control. Not for one second saying that Xmcs isn't at the same quality level (I'm very very happy with my bike)
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The problem with going close to the 2k usd mark is you are then competing with a different level of competition (winspace, Tavelo etc.) which will all have a higher level of resale value and high quality control. Not for one second saying that Xmcs isn't at the same quality level (I'm very very happy with my bike)
I hear you - but my expectation is that the entire market will move up a bit. Look at for example the Quick Pro UR:ONE, which is RMB 18,600 (approx 2660 USD).
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If anything - it looks like we might be in for a year of some sense coming back into pricing - and finally manufacturers producing bikes with modern geometries.
First example of the year is coming from Rose with the Shave.
Endurance geo, but very aero (race geo also available with the FF model), full bike with 105 di2 and a power meter for €3600.
Starts to put a lot of pressure on frame sets like Peter's at the price point proposed.
I really like the look of the new frames Peter has designed, but we have no performance data CFD or anything to go by, whereas the Rose are producing figures that at least mean "something".
Im banking on Light Carbon to bring out a nice aero frame at a killer price point, similar to what they did with the LCR018-D.
If its coming in under $1000, then its easier to take a punt on it, whereas once you creep into the $1500 and above range, there are just too many tried and tested options.
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If anything - it looks like we might be in for a year of some sense coming back into pricing - and finally manufacturers producing bikes with modern geometries.
First example of the year is coming from Rose with the Shave.
Endurance geo, but very aero (race geo also available with the FF model), full bike with 105 di2 and a power meter for €3600.
Starts to put a lot of pressure on frame sets like Peter's at the price point proposed.
I really like the look of the new frames Peter has designed, but we have no performance data CFD or anything to go by, whereas the Rose are producing figures that at least mean "something".
Im banking on Light Carbon to bring out a nice aero frame at a killer price point, similar to what they did with the LCR018-D.
If its coming in under $1000, then its easier to take a punt on it, whereas once you creep into the $1500 and above range, there are just too many tried and tested options.
Aren’t the new XMCS frames going to be made as one piece mold which is the the cost is more? I thought I remembered reading that here somewhere.
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This is what you mean? It's about 8 degrees tilt. No idea what the effect on the airflow on the inside of the fork would be, especially if you take the rotating wheel into account which might redirect the flow. I would be surprised if XMCS did some CFD on it, let alone if other brands did such a study specifically with a rotating wheel. The effect could be negative, neglectable or positve. Who knows...
(https://i.ibb.co/60nTMrV7/Screenshot-2026-02-06-121050.jpg)
I pretty much checked all of my aero bikes laying around here. All of them have that same positive degree tilt on the ridge of the fork.
Scott Foil, VB Aerotrace, Polygon Helios-A, and even the QuickPro ER One. The ridge line follows that of the front wheel/tire.
Not trying to justify for XMCS. And perhaps every brand has been getting it wrong for years. This is just the first time ever hearing about that ridge line needing to essentially be parallel to each respective thru-axle.
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If anything - it looks like we might be in for a year of some sense coming back into pricing - and finally manufacturers producing bikes with modern geometries.
First example of the year is coming from Rose with the Shave.
Endurance geo, but very aero (race geo also available with the FF model), full bike with 105 di2 and a power meter for €3600.
Starts to put a lot of pressure on frame sets like Peter's at the price point proposed.
I really like the look of the new frames Peter has designed, but we have no performance data CFD or anything to go by, whereas the Rose are producing figures that at least mean "something".
Im banking on Light Carbon to bring out a nice aero frame at a killer price point, similar to what they did with the LCR018-D.
If its coming in under $1000, then its easier to take a punt on it, whereas once you creep into the $1500 and above range, there are just too many tried and tested options.
I think the Shave FF is the better comparison right? That is still quite a pricepoint higher. I also feel the EU (D2C) brands are in a different ecosystem. Contrary to Xiamen, they suffered rather hard since 2022, and will need to re-invent their proposition a bit.
Whereas the D2C Chinese brands are getting more traction, and inevitably will raise their prices a bit. You may be right that there will be some convergence between CN and Western Brands, but as a package it will still be a different proposition. No separate frameset, no customization etc.
Interesting times anyway, markets will ebb and flow.
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I wish there was an option for more aggressive geometry. In the "M" I will need to run the same 130mm stem as my current bike (R5 clone). Another ~35mm of TT/reach would be ideal. Esp for the price.
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I think the Shave FF is the better comparison right? That is still quite a pricepoint higher. I also feel the EU (D2C) brands are in a different ecosystem. Contrary to Xiamen, they suffered rather hard since 2022, and will need to re-invent their proposition a bit.
Whereas the D2C Chinese brands are getting more traction, and inevitably will raise their prices a bit. You may be right that there will be some convergence between CN and Western Brands, but as a package it will still be a different proposition. No separate frameset, no customization etc.
Interesting times anyway, markets will ebb and flow.
The VB368 I have here definitely has a more horizontal ridge. The fork is not as wide-legged so it's not as pronounced as on e.g. the XMCS frame. If anything it is actually angled slightly opposite to XMCS frame.
Side note: The mobile version of this forum is taken directly out of 2009 and is super horrible 😅
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This is what you mean? It's about 8 degrees tilt. No idea what the effect on the airflow on the inside of the fork would be, especially if you take the rotating wheel into account which might redirect the flow. I would be surprised if XMCS did some CFD on it, let alone if other brands did such a study specifically with a rotating wheel. The effect could be negative, neglectable or positve. Who knows...
To me It's not just the ridge itself that's problematic, it's what it indicates about the shape of the blade above it. I won't rewrite what I already wrote (https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6481.msg95760.html#msg95760). You can see Factor got this very wrong on the Hanzo and fixed it on the Hanzo Track and One. And yes, I do think that until relatively recently, a lot of designers were doing this wrong, but it's less negative on narrow forks
And it's way more than 8 degrees. It's tilted about as much as the head tube, almost like the fork was designed to stand perfectly vertical
The front on shot that requiem posted is also very suspicious to me, because it's looking at the bike from above and it looks like it's pretty much the perfect angle to line up with the angle of the upper part of the blade, considering how thin it looks in that picture. I'm confident that if you looked at it when the bike and the camera were perfectly horizontal, it would present a significantly larger frontal area, also indicating that, again, if you sliced it with a vertical plane, the cross section would look like a wing pointing upwards like it's trying to generate extra lift.
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To me It's not just the ridge itself that's problematic, it's what it indicates about the shape of the blade above it. I won't rewrite what I already wrote (https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,6481.msg95760.html#msg95760). You can see Factor got this very wrong on the Hanzo and fixed it on the Hanzo Track and One. And yes, I do think that until relatively recently, a lot of designers were doing this wrong, but it's less negative on narrow forks
And it's way more than 8 degrees. It's tilted about as much as the head tube, almost like the fork was designed to stand perfectly vertical
The front on shot that requiem posted is also very suspicious to me, because it's looking at the bike from above and it looks like it's pretty much the perfect angle to line up with the angle of the upper part of the blade, considering how thin it looks in that picture. I'm confident that if you looked at it when the bike and the camera were perfectly horizontal, it would present a significantly larger frontal area, also indicating that, again, if you sliced it with a vertical plane, the cross section would look like a wing pointing upwards like it's trying to generate extra lift.
The downward washing of the air maybe leads to less interference with your knees or the big two cylinder like limbs hanging down of the sides of your saddle. Or the lift is for less rolling resistance of the front tire ;) just joking and maybe it is a 0.2 watts difference without a rider…
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The problem with going close to the 2k usd mark is you are then competing with a different level of competition (winspace, Tavelo etc.) which will all have a higher level of resale value and high quality control. Not for one second saying that Xmcs isn't at the same quality level (I'm very very happy with my bike)
Totally agree. Additionally, Winspace, Tavelo, Quick Pro all sponsor Conti/WT-level teams and are proven viable race frames. Also Winspace does wind tunnel testing (can't recall if Tavelo Arow or QP ER completed wind tunnel testing). We know Peter puts out good wheels but frames are a big question mark at that price and likely DOA, with the exception of XMCS followers. To summarize, the onus will be on XMCS to prove they justify the price in an already competitive market.
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I'll vouch for Peter putting good frames out, but if I'm spending over 1.5k on a frame I need to be able to resell it, the draw of DTC Chinese frames is the value and low cost imo
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The GT frame started at 1500usd too and is now 1200 usd.
I am surprised at the ‘surprise’ :).
As for the quality: the proof of the eating is in the pudding, so also for me it will be exciting to test the new aero frame once we get it. Based on the people who analysed the GT frame (Hambini), and GT frame customers and the xmcs commitment/pride in their quality - I expect a very high standard / quality.
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Eh, I think it will be fine commercially. Hambini, Lino and Chinertown give the brand a decent bit of exposure and confirmation of quality and their reputation for wheels will bring enough visitors to the website. These probably won't be a spectacle that breaches out of their current sphere like the Incolor SSR and Seka Spear were, but I would be surprised if they ended up as failures.
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The GT started out at $1200 and even that was enough to stop me.
It was up against the LCR018-D from Light carbon which offered serious value and a quality product.
I don’t think there’s any question over Peters quality of frame - he’s well enough established, especially to anyone commenting on here.
The GT is an easier sale as it’s an endurance based bike - everything is dependent on geometry to achieve the bikes goal, and is easily quantifiable and understood by the potential customer.
The aero frame is a different beast. Geometry here is not the selling point. Aero is.
Offering up a frame at $1500 with no CFD or any sort of aero test figures is an extremely hard sell.
Don’t get me wrong - I want the frame to be good and for Peter to have a success with this.
For me to purchase there either needs to be a better value proposition to make it worth a punt, or there needs to be some sort of hard figures from a wind tunnel ran against a couple of competitors - if not, the risk is just not worth it.
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I would echo the same sentiment. To succeed at that price point will take marketing budget, is free frames out to “influencers” and possibly cost sharing of wind testing with one of the large media.
After it’s all down to capital, the monobloc mold cost a lot but to find market in that upper tier field is not easy
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I am critical in hopes of prompting improvement. Despite my criticisms, I actually think the aero frame will perform fine by virtue of the low overall frontal area it's presenting. The head tube is very narrowed, the seat tube isn't extremely narrow but it's not overly wide, the seat stays and fork blades look at about the minimum allowed thickness. Obviously it'll be lacking refinement compared to the mainstream brands. XMCS doesn't have the library of optimised tube cross sections of Specialized and they can't afford to spend a year tweaking the designs they have. Yeah you're leaving potential on the table but I can understand that, at this point in their growth, that's just something they have to accept. It won't be going toe to toe with the Factor One, but it won't be a parachute either.
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Don’t get me wrong - I want the frame to be good and for Peter to have a success with this.
For me to purchase there either needs to be a better value proposition to make it worth a punt, or there needs to be some sort of hard figures from a wind tunnel ran against a couple of competitors - if not, the risk is just not worth it.
The Quick Pro ER:ONE and AR:ONE came on the market without aero testing in the 2k price category and have been a home run.
What I see - and feel free to correct me, is aero testing by Seka, Incolor and Evolve. With Evolve the cheapest of those af 2300 USD. Edit: Winspace apparently too, saw that they tested the T1600 2400 usd).
Anyway, we will do some outdoor aero testing, and if anyone lives in the Netherlands with a frame that he wants to compare by me drop me a note. Must be a size 54/56. I will compare it to my own Aeroad and for fun against me Noah GR201.
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If anything - it looks like we might be in for a year of some sense coming back into pricing - and finally manufacturers producing bikes with modern geometries.
First example of the year is coming from Rose with the Shave.
Endurance geo, but very aero (race geo also available with the FF model), full bike with 105 di2 and a power meter for €3600.
Starts to put a lot of pressure on frame sets like Peter's at the price point proposed.
I really like the look of the new frames Peter has designed, but we have no performance data CFD or anything to go by, whereas the Rose are producing figures that at least mean "something".
Im banking on Light Carbon to bring out a nice aero frame at a killer price point, similar to what they did with the LCR018-D.
If its coming in under $1000, then its easier to take a punt on it, whereas once you creep into the $1500 and above range, there are just too many tried and tested options.
Rose are not known for their QC - it’s cheap for a reason.
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Rose are not known for their QC - it’s cheap for a reason.
Rose are as good as any of the rest of the western manufacturers, and I’m only pointing them out as an example. Surely more will follow this trend.
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It seems my little private aero test project is obsolete already…
Apparently Peter is already in conversation for real wind tunnel testing of the new frames this year.
8)
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Absolutely excellent.
Thanks for the update - and well done Peter.
Fingers crossed for some good results.
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Wouldn't mind if XMCS spent more time to refine the aero frame after the wind tunnel testing or even implement the changes toxin suggested, like a slimmer seat post (similar to how Factor does it with Di2 battery near bottom bracket) and improving the fork area. With such changes, this bike would tick so many boxes.
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It seems my little private aero test project is obsolete already…
Apparently Peter is already in conversation for real wind tunnel testing of the new frames this year.
8)
Ooo, could be a game changer 8)
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Does the allround frame have a round seatpost or is it frame specific? I wish the seat tube was a touch longer and it would be perfect for me.
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Does the allround frame have a round seatpost or is it frame specific? I wish the seat tube was a touch longer and it would be perfect for me.
Frame specific.
ST is a bit shorter to differentiate it more from the aero model, with the aim of added compliance due to more exposed seat post.
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New video on YouTube by mybikeparts interviewing Peter.
https://youtu.be/-ozkVlFfIn8?si=eNoy4MJlpiQF1hKL
Shows what I believe to be what is the new aero frame - which looks fantastic.
I have been in contact with Peter and aero testing is definitely planned for this frame, and even better, as was also hinted at in the video, Peter mentioned he may offer a super light version of this frameset - now we are really getting into interesting territory.
This could finally be the frame I’ve been dreaming of - aero, light and not too super aggressive in terms of geo. I can’t wait for the full details to be released.
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New video on YouTube by mybikeparts interviewing Peter.
https://youtu.be/-ozkVlFfIn8?si=eNoy4MJlpiQF1hKL
Shows what I believe to be what is the new aero frame - which looks fantastic.
I have been in contact with Peter and aero testing is definitely planned for this frame, and even better, as was also hinted at in the video, Peter mentioned he may offer a super light version of this frameset - now we are really getting into interesting territory.
This could finally be the frame I’ve been dreaming of - aero, light and not too super aggressive in terms of geo. I can’t wait for the full details to be released.
Very interesting and impressive for sure! Wonder who they produce wheels for.
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I am planning to be at Sea Otter 2026 in April for video coverage and correspondent. Full YouTuber gooner and slop. Can't wait.
Peter should be there too with a booth, so I'm pretty sure he'll have his 2026 lineup on hand. Super keen to see the new aero frame.
I'll definitely cover his booth and get an interview with Peter.
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I would love to see a true all rounder frame some day. Something like the envy fray or aspero-5 that has clearance for 40 - 42mm tires, 415-420mm chain stay and decent geometry and I think it would be a winning combination for an all road bike. Just look at how popular the LCR018-D is on the forum.
Looking at the geo charts of the two bikes they are very similar and I imagine someone looking for a bike may be hard pressed to choose between one or the other. I imagine this would eat into each bikes target consumer.
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I would love to see a true all rounder frame some day. Something like the envy fray or aspero-5 that has clearance for 40 - 42mm tires, 415-420mm chain stay and decent geometry and I think it would be a winning combination for an all road bike. Just look at how popular the LCR018-D is on the forum.
Looking at the geo charts of the two bikes they are very similar and I imagine someone looking for a bike may be hard pressed to choose between one or the other. I imagine this would eat into each bikes target consumer.
I agree with you - I think this is a really interesting part of the market that is still not very developed.
XMCS is now working on a lot of new things at the same time, so I personally don’t expect any developments in this area soon. Although with Peter you never know :-).
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So my recently purchased frame will become obsolete in a few months/years time because of this frame lol. Interested in buying the aero frame and can't wait for the aero test results!
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I do wonder if Peter will use a full blown wind tunnel facility like Silverstone UK or the one down in Sydney Australia with the Nero Show dudes. Or just one of those janky portable wind testing machines like Winspace uses ;D
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I do wonder if Peter will use a full blown wind tunnel facility like Silverstone UK or the one down in Sydney Australia with the Nero Show dudes. Or just one of those janky portable wind testing machines like Winspace uses ;D
Haha. Silverstone wind tunnel testing it would be. We should be able to do this in April.
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First time poster, long time lurker. Multiple-time Chinese bike owner since around 2009.
Thank you PeterXu and Requiem84 for the information about this frame, I'll be following with interest and look forward to seeing the results of your wind tunnel testing. I will be looking to replace my rim brake aero road bike (2016 Felt AR3) in the next year or two - I'll be looking for a relatively lightweight aero frame (~1000g, L/XL sizing) with a reach of around 395-410, relatively tall stack (580-600) and steep seat tube angle (74-75 deg) with zero-offset post. The new XMCS aero frame appears to fit the bill.
I enjoyed bsharp77's factory tour video, and was interested in the vertical carbon 'spine' in the top tube and down tube. I wonder if PeterXu or Requiem84 could provide some additional insight into this design feature. One thing I particularly dislike about my Felt is how horrendously stiff/harsh the ride is. Part of this is due to the max tyre width of 25mm, but it's by far the stiffest bike I've ever ridden (even stiffer than my Specialized Shiv Tri, which has enormous tubes), and is frankly torturous to ride on bumpy roads beyond about 90mins. The split seatpost does nothing!
As such, I'd be looking for a bike with a little more vertical compliance than this, and I am wondering what effect a vertical carbon wall in the middle of the tube is going to have on the ride of the new XMCS frame. Perhaps the thin seatstays provide some additional compliance to compensate for a stiff front triangle? In any case, grateful for any insights.
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Haha. Silverstone wind tunnel testing it would be. We should be able to do this in April.
Does this mean it will be available to buy after April? Or before? 8)
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Haha. Silverstone wind tunnel testing it would be. We should be able to do this in April.
Will you also take your other frames (and wheels) to the test?
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Will you also take your other frames (and wheels) to the test?
Some 58mm wheels I think, but I don't think we would send other frames, since we will have this aero frameset testing compared with other brands fast bikes. Also we got quite a few feedbacks on our Gran Turismo bikes, fast, even endurance geometry.
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Hi Peter, can you share with us the growth strategy for you company? I think a few of us will be challenged by the move up market. Do you intend to focus on what I would qualify as high end Chinese DTC frame or will you have an entry level (not monobloc) line up at more affordable prices (i would say the 800-1000$ range)?
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Does this mean it will be available to buy after April? Or before? 8)
Size M and L will be available in April
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How long till XXL is available?
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Hello Peter, I am excited to see how the aero frameset performs. Hopefully, you saw earlier posts that toxin suggested about the fork area. After the wind tunnel tests, are you going to improve the frameset further or just release the frameset as it is?
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Hello Peter, I am excited to see how the aero frameset performs. Hopefully, you saw earlier posts that toxin suggested about the fork area. After the wind tunnel tests, are you going to improve the frameset further or just release the frameset as it is?
Why to do that if the bike is fast ? The mold fee is not cheap.
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Ah okay. From the older posts, it sounded like the frame was still in the prototyping or development phase. If the mold is already done, then I guess that is it. Would have been fun to see an iterative design process, but that probably too long and expensive.
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New road riser handlebar.
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New road riser handlebar.
looks a lot like an old Rose Endurance or Gravel cockpits.
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I have the Rose gravel handlebar and like it a lot. One of the reasons I recommended to make this type of handlebar for the road (and gravel). Mostly I simply think this will be a very big trend for both road and gravel.
Rose has shorter reach, less drop and less rise than the xmcs Rise road bar. The xmcs gravel bar is closer to the Rose, but still 5mm more rise and less stem angle, a bit more drop.
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I used to have one on my reveal I hated how it looked.
Maybe I'm missing something but what is the point of doing a negative stem angle and then adding rise?
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If you’d use a 0% stem angle your hood section would be quite tilted upwards on most frames.
Yes, the road bars still use -10, but if you want those 3-4mm of extra stack from the stem angle there are the gravel bars with -8.
For people not caring whatsoever about this there still us the regular road bar and for gravel there is the non-rise option too.
So trying to facilitate most preferences.
I think with this line-up of 4 handlebars xmcs has a nice range and flexibility in any case. Feedback we’re getting on the handlebars is also pretty much positive.
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If you’d use a 0% stem angle your hood section would be quite tilted upwards on most frames.
Drops need to be angled accordingly.
Cockpits that come with cervelo s5, y1rs or bianchi oltre race have positively angles stems for example
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If you’d use a 0% stem angle your hood section would be quite tilted upwards on most frames.
That's right, but where is the problem, especially if it might even offer better aerodynamics?
At least from a Netherland's standpoint (where you are from Tim) with Jan-Willem van Schip running a steep upward stem both road and track and this guy knows something about areodynamics this might be seen more often in the future.
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Drops need to be angled accordingly.
Cockpits that come with cervelo s5, y1rs or bianchi oltre race have positively angles stems for example
Then you angle -10 at the drops, instead of -10 at the stem.
Potato potato? ;-).
Same result, different way of getting there.
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Then you angle -10 at the drops, instead of -10 at the stem.
Potato potato? ;-).
Same result, different way of getting there.
That does not make sense to me. how is it the same? The only benefit I see to these rised drops with a negative stem is that the sizing remains more or less close to your standard cockpit whilst a positively angled "stem" would give you less reach for the same length
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That does not make sense to me. how is it the same? The only benefit I see to these rised drops with a negative stem is that the sizing remains more or less close to your standard cockpit whilst a positively angled "stem" would give you less reach for the same length
Yep, that definitely helps.
But what is then the benefit of a positive stem for you?
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Yep, that definitely helps.
But what is then the benefit of a positive stem for you?
I prefer it visually and that just seem like a more logical solution to me. Don't see the point for doing negative stem and then the wonky rised handlebars but I stay open minded. I'm willing to accept the idea behind it if someone can explain it ;D
I remember back in a day specialized diverge or roubaix came with rised handlebars and I just could not understand it since you could just simply flip the stem and use a regular handlebar
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IMHO we are all used to the looks of negativ angled stems, and a zero degree stem or a positiv angled stem looks for most of us pretty awkward on a drop bar bike.
So I understand a manufacturer takes the tradditional approach.
But nowadays we see more and more positiv angled stems beeing ridden in the velodrom (for good reasons I think, as they offer a more aerodynamic position flat on the upper bar) and we see very few "unusual" stem/handlebars on road frames, starting with Cercelo S5 (I hate this cockpit since I had to buy my son a new bar for his S5, LoL), and the new Colnago cockpit for example.
I bet we will see a lot more of this development (for good or bad, IDK) in the next years.
Untill that, a classic shaped integraded bar is problably the most reasonable cockpit from a manufacturer point of view.
As the XMSC frames will not come with a proprietary cockpit (like the S5), everybody can choose the cockpit she wants.
No reason for any complaints.
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I like the aesthetics of the positive stem bar on eg the Y1RS, but only because they have the frame dropout for the stem (same for the S5 by the way).
I personally don’t like the looks on a standard non-dropout frame. In the end both solutions achieve the added stack, but the way you get there is different and it looks different visually. Personally the xmcs approach will look better on different bikes and indeed retains the same geo logic and structure.
I don’t know which option is more aero optimized, as I haven’t seen any aero data on this. JWS’ solution is because he can experiment with a separate stem/bar combo, rather than him needing to ask a brand to make a bespoke one piece handlebar. For the amount of rise he wants a positive stem will be needed anyway.
I’d be surprised if anyone likes his set-up visually though ;-).
(https://cdn.brujulabike.com/media/181549/conversions/van-schip-1240.jpg)
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Indeed very special style and not to everyone's taste, but I like it.
JWS needs a lot of stack for his aero position, luying flat on veeeery narrow bars (now USI restricted), and if he's not giving a competitor a headbutt LoL (also UCI restricted, check google if you haven't seen the vid).
T Red/Toot from Italy going the same way at least with their track bikes.
We see the same approach on TT bikes where the arm rests are much higher than they ever have been before.
Wouldn't wonder if this is the "normal" in a few years on road bikes.
So guys leave PeterX alone, that's some nice new handel bars, don't buy if you don't like them ;-)
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A positive stem can have a better stiffness/weight ratio as you aren't putting a double bend into a thin, relatively structurally suboptimal cross section. It might have a bit more frontal area (I'm not sure which way this one goes), but it also allows you more freedom to aerodynamically optimise the horizontal cross section of the stem. You can also more effectively maximise the side profile of the stem to make it a greater contributor to aerodynamics at higher yaw angles. Van rysel rcr-f does this.
Van Schip's position is an attempt to truly mimic a TT position (including the upwards angled forearms) on a road bike that is two sizes too small for him. If he kept the rest of his position the same and just set the bike up for horizontal forearms, as is the intended use for most bars, he would have very little extra rise. If tavelo made bikes in appropriate sizes for the Dutch market, his cockpit setup would look significantly more normal.
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@Toxin, without ever having spoken to van Schip and without having read an interview where he talks about his position on the bike, i don't think he'd choose a bigger frame as he already uses a forward tilted seat post (the UCI turned out to deem illegal last year when the commisaires took him out of a rece). A bigger frame would position him even more behind the BB.
Maybe here's not the right thread for this sort of discussion, but if you have insights on van Ships aero testing and position development pls share.
IMHO we see a lot of manufacturers adding a bit of stack to their frames when updating the model, due to pro riders beeing more on the tops than in the drops for their most effective earo postition.
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Only if the bigger frame had a slacker seatpost, imo bikes should have a fixed seat angle in all sizes, but that's another matter. That still wouldn't change the fact that the bike he was on was too low and short for his size and position and that his case isn't relevant to most such discussion because almost nobody is interested in replicating that position, even among the progressive aero position crowd.
I just don't agree with your last point, it's not a trend that I've noticed at all. Most notably cannondale lowered the stack of the newest supersix because the pros didn't like the previous one. Most times when you see pros running spacers under their stems, it's because they've already downsized in frame size.
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I would like to see positive angled stem handlebars as in the Ridley Noah Fast. A different approach than Cervelo, Factor or Colnago.
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I just don't agree with your last point, it's not a trend that I've noticed at all. Most notably cannondale lowered the stack of the newest supersix because the pros didn't like the previous one. Most times when you see pros running spacers under their stems, it's because they've already downsized in frame size.
Yes, that's right, Cannondale lowered the stack, and I was very surprised about the geo when they released the frame.
From Tarmc SL7 to Tarmac SL8 the stack was increased, same if you compare Aeroad MY 2018 and MY 2024.
And OC pro riders choose very small frame sizes, but the're adding more spaceres nowadays, up to 30mm or even more:
https://www.cyclingnews.com/cycling-tech-components/where-have-all-the-slammed-pro-bikes-gone-five-tech-trends-from-opening-weekend/
In NL, there's someone taking the concept van Schip uses to an new frame desing:
https://morpheus-bikes.com/reppit-in-detail/
So this is not just a one man idea of a guy who's 194cm tall and can't find a big enough frame.
Especially on the track we see a lot more riders experimenting with this kind of position, maybe BC it's so easy with no cables and no integration at all at the bike.
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Yes, that's right, Cannondale lowered the stack, and I was very surprised about the geo when they released the frame.
It is very hard not to regard western bike brands as pure marketing operations, these days. And i do not mean that as a compliment.
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I am with you. You just see the push now towards steel frames on the marketing side. That’s all it really is. Aerobike with rider, what is really the difference Frame to frame once rider in same position? It’s really all marginal and only releva
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It is very hard not to regard western bike brands as pure marketing operations, these days. And i do not mean that as a compliment.
Meh. Its definitely incremental, but put the Pogacar's Y1Rs next to the Sagan's Cannondale's next to Lance's Trek, and its pretty clear things have changed.
Yes, that's right, Cannondale lowered the stack, and I was very surprised about the geo when they released the frame.
Well, they very clearly explained that it was in a bid to get EF riders to stop sizing down to get frames with lower stack heights. It is not just about spacer stacks, but also about getting riders on bikes that are the right length for them. Based on the pro bikes I have seen from EF, they are not using setups with less stack height. They are on bars with shorter stems.
One of the great mysteries of the bike part of the internet is why people size down (like pros), buy race bikes (like pros), and then complain about the stack height being too low because they lack the elite physiology that makes up a pro. They could probably have solved some of the issues by either buying the right bike size for them from the start or buying an endurance bike and sizing down. Most people look at the size charts created by manufacturers and throw them straight into the bin. While they aren't a replacement for a bike fit, that guidance is based on the bike's design and desired handling characteristics.
I am with you. You just see the push now towards steel frames on the marketing side. That’s all it really is. Aerobike with rider, what is really the difference Frame to frame once rider in same position? It’s really all marginal and only releva
With the most love and good intentions to you and to Peter--there isn't much positional innovation with regards to the bikes that XMCS are proposing on this thread. We rarely see that coming from anywhere but from brands with teams involved in the highest level of racing. I am not suggesting that XMCS should be doing that, just that expectations should be set accordingly, and for the brands that have pushed performance through position optimization (e.g., Specialized, Ridley, Colnago), it might be worth giving them a bit of credit for their work.
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From Tarmc SL7 to Tarmac SL8 the stack was increased, same if you compare Aeroad MY 2018 and MY 2024
Tarmac frame stack and reach remained the same, specialized just started including the headset cover in the geo chart. The aeroad went from a regular steerer and headset arrangement to a fully proprietary system that includes the handlebar, so you can't compare it one-to-one because you would have to take how the handlebar affect the location of the contact points into the equation.
And OC pro riders choose very small frame sizes, but the're adding more spaceres nowadays, up to 30mm or even more:
Yeah, but these extreme stacks are outliers. The norm in the pro peloton is still slammed or very few spacers, on a sized down bike and long stem. The companies are actually providing pros with bike geometries that aren't fit for purpose because they are stuck in last century's understandings of bike fit.
https://morpheus-bikes.com/reppit-in-detail/
So this is not just a one man idea of a guy who's 194cm tall and can't find a big enough frame.
Especially on the track we see a lot more riders experimenting with this kind of position, maybe BC it's so easy with no cables and no integration at all at the bike.
And no hate to Arno, but I think this is a misguided endeavour, born from a man's dream of making a bike of his own, rather than making something the market is looking for. I hope him well, but he could've achieved most of his goals without such a large monetary investment by just making extreme rise handlebars.
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Meh. Its definitely incremental, but put the Pogacar's Y1Rs next to the Sagan's Cannondale's next to Lance's Trek, and its pretty clear things have changed.
Well, they very clearly explained that it was in a bid to get EF riders to stop sizing down to get frames with lower stack heights. It is not just about spacer stacks, but also about getting riders on bikes that are the right length for them. Based on the pro bikes I have seen from EF, they are not using setups with less stack height. They are on bars with shorter stems.
One of the great mysteries of the bike part of the internet is why people size down (like pros), buy race bikes (like pros), and then complain about the stack height being too low because they lack the elite physiology that makes up a pro. They could probably have solved some of the issues by either buying the right bike size for them from the start or buying an endurance bike and sizing down. Most people look at the size charts created by manufacturers and throw them straight into the bin. While they aren't a replacement for a bike fit, that guidance is based on the bike's design and desired handling characteristics.
With the most love and good intentions to you and to Peter--there isn't much positional innovation with regards to the bikes that XMCS are proposing on this thread. We rarely see that coming from anywhere but from brands with teams involved in the highest level of racing. I am not suggesting that XMCS should be doing that, just that expectations should be set accordingly, and for the brands that have pushed performance through position optimization (e.g., Specialized, Ridley, Colnago), it might be worth giving them a bit of credit for their work.
I have pro-"ish" sizing because of my anthropometry (I think my wingspan is like 10cm longer than my height). Ive tried sizing up and just didnt like the handling. I dont know how or why but for me a ~53-54cm just feels "right" compared to a 55-56cm, even considering Im running a 130mm stem on my R5 clone.
I do think that road bike geometry has lagged substantially behind road bike fit, and while I love that these new frames are here I do think it would have been worth gambling with the aero frame to try some more modern + progressive geometry. Basically balancing the UCI limits, getting the rider as far forward over the BB as possible, and doing whatever to enable the horizontal forearm position comfortably and efficiently. Which to me seems like basically mimicking TT bikes, but w/way less carbon, more tire clearance and the ability to run conventional stems.
Im itching to do my next build, but Im kind of hesitant because I know the geometry and tire clearance I want, but nobody makes it. This does feel like a missed opportunity IMO.
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I'm between 56cm and 58cm sizes and I've always sized down. Wingspan 11cm longer than my height 186cm and very long legs. I might try sizing up this time if I end up getting the aero bike. Go a bit higher stack and longer as the trend is now. But that means waiting for the XXL which comes last.
56cm frames fit me perfectly but I have 22cm of seatpost visible and at least 2cm of spacers I think a 58 will look better.
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Road Riser bars. 3D printed first.
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Any news on what the paint options will be? Included or extra?
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Any news on what the paint options will be? Included or extra?
1 custom color is included.
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Name reveal of the premium frame line-up at Sea Otter.
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Looking good!
I cannot be the only possible buyer looking to run this 1x- especially with rumours of SRAM bringing out a 1x13 speed road group set. Can Peter add a piece of carbon to go over the area where the front derailleur would attach? It would look cleaner and possibly aid air flow?
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Damn, that is going to be one great frame, especially if the super light version is still on track.
Any reported weights of a SL frame yet?
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Looking good!
I cannot be the only possible buyer looking to run this 1x- especially with rumours of SRAM bringing out a 1x13 speed road group set. Can Peter add a piece of carbon to go over the area where the front derailleur would attach? It would look cleaner and possibly aid air flow?
I will build up our demo bike with 13x XPLR too, considering to use a fancy chain catcher for that part. Nova Ride had a nice one.
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Damn, that is going to be one great frame, especially if the super light version is still on track.
Any reported weights of a SL frame yet?
I haven’t heard about it.
I did see the above frame on the scales though. With frame bolts and plastic axle included was 994g.
For an aero bike with such deep tubes I think that is perfectly workable. Hoping to build up our demo to around 6.5/6.7kg ready to ride.
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I haven’t heard about it.
I did see the above frame on the scales though. With frame bolts and plastic axle included was 994g.
For an aero bike with such deep tubes I think that is perfectly workable. Hoping to build up our demo to around 6.5/6.7kg ready to ride.
Agree that this is a good weight for what is a very aero looking frame, however Peter did mention a super light version which I think takes this bike to a whole different level - and also helps it stand out in what is quickly becoming a very crowded market of all out aero frames.
To have all that aero shaping and the weight of a climbing bike really would be amazing - and I would definitely hold out for it.
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Hello Peter,
What is the aim of the wind tunnel testing - only for approval that you frame works well and for comparison to other brands?
Or do you want to do some tests for further iteration of the frame, to bring the learnings to the new, following generation of the frame?
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There isn't really much you can learn from a wind tunnel test if you only test the finished product. For development you'd make several prototypes with the help of cfd and then you'd take them to the wind tunnel to validate and compare against each other. Ideally at a facility with some more advanced flow analysis tools.
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IMO, any other wind test of the frame will be negligible if the rider's position in the bike is like a parachute.
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has the mold for the riser bars been made? I think a lot of the feedback I have seen on them is why would you have a -10 degree stem with 20mm of rise when you could probably go -6 degrees and gain another 12mm at 120mm length? Hopefully Peter may be able to change that.
Otherwise you are competing with the Tavelo Rise for the same market space with exact dimensions.
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has the mold for the riser bars been made? I think a lot of the feedback I have seen on them is why would you have a -10 degree stem with 20mm of rise when you could probably go -6 degrees and gain another 12mm at 120mm length? Hopefully Peter may be able to change that.
Otherwise you are competing with the Tavelo Rise for the same market space with exact dimensions.
Tavelo has 20mm rise, right?
If you go -6 and have 25mm rise + 12mm from the SA at 120mm, you are equivalent of 37mm spacers. That’s becoming quite a lot and will lead to a much more upright position. The gravel handlebar actually has -8 if you’re looking for an alternative.
Besides; I’m getting a pretty big volume of people asking when they can order the riser road bar. It seems to have hit a nice spot.
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Name reveal of the premium frame line-up at Sea Otter.
I guess it is an announcement from SAVA ;-)
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Tavelo has 20mm rise, right?
If you go -6 and have 25mm rise + 12mm from the SA at 120mm, you are equivalent of 37mm spacers. That’s becoming quite a lot and will lead to a much more upright position. The gravel handlebar actually has -8 if you’re looking for an alternative.
Besides; I’m getting a pretty big volume of people asking when they can order the riser road bar. It seems to have hit a nice spot.
You are right I didnt realize that XMCS one is 25mm rise. I think I messed up the measurements as I typed out my response quickly.
a normal -10 bar is 8mm lower than a -6 bar at 120mm. I am assuming the point of the bar is to have less spacers hence the rise. Currently if you want the most stack without a rise setup you get a -6 bar. Therefore your gain in stack is already 8mm behind. With 25mm of extra stack and -10 that means you gain 17mm of rise.
I feel like anyone would appreciate an extra 8mm of rise on some chinese frames like the ER one. 25mm of extra stack would mean you could easily just slam the stem for a cleaner look.
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I would not mind riser bars, if they didn't come at the expense of a shallower drop measurement. Me and my long arms.
The idea of having my arms/elbows more easily be able to hold a 90° aero position over the hoods sounds great. However in a race I just find myself being in the drops about 95% of the time. I'm not a breakaway type rider anyway I guess.
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Anyone seen any news from Sea Otter about the new Aero frame?
XCMS had teased the brand name launch for the frame on Instagram and one was meant to be on show.
Can't see anything anywhere from any of the usual sorts of sources or from XMCS themselves (I guess they might be quite busy!).
Very excited to see more photo of the frame and what they've came up with name wise and how it all will look.
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Anyone seen any news from Sea Otter about the new Aero frame?
XCMS had teased the brand name launch for the frame on Instagram and one was meant to be on show.
Can't see anything anywhere from any of the usual sorts of sources or from XMCS themselves (I guess they might be quite busy!).
Very excited to see more photo of the frame and what they've came up with name wise and how it all will look.
Check my IG story right now: @pattybomaye
I’ll report back later. Crazy busy with media coverage, meetings, and networking. I was with Peter in his booth for several hours yesterday, and the aero frame literally is everything I asked for in a frame. And it appears to be freakin stiff too based on the internal layup. He also displayed a raw carbon half cut frame so patrons can see the handy work.
It’s clear Peter is a very passionate and meticulous gentlemen. I’m both biased and compromised of course lol.
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Welcome AERYS!
Context: Aeris is latin for air. And when discussing what is important to XMCS as brand Peter and team came up first with aerodynamics. Craftmanship. Quality. It also reflects the lightness of air and the efficiency in the xmcs designs. We can throw more marketing mumbo jumbo at it, but that’s the gist of it.
So this frame now officially is the AERYS:VRT, which stands for Vortex. The other road frame and gravel aero frame have a 3 letter abbreviation too but I leave it to Peter if he wants to share already.
*Note: the fork placement of ‘VRT’ will change in position and size.
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Reasonable name, good job, I assume you had a hand in that requiem?
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Thanks for the updates guys.
Oh damn that frame is looking GOOD.
Name isn’t bad and the font is ok too - winner winner!
Any news on whether they are still going to offer a super light version?
I guess there’s the report from the wind tunnel to come as well, but everything is looking superb so far.
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Reasonable name, good job, I assume you had a hand in that requiem?
Yup, and font visuals by my better half. She works as graphic designer and tried to connect the design language of the font to the AERYS concept. The tilted left part of the ‘A’ accentuates speed for example. Thin lines to emphasize the precision engineering of XMCS. Open spaces in the Y for example to highlight the aero feeling.
This is not AI/LLM stuff after the fact, this is all in the internal design white paper.
Not that most of you care, but as background perhaps interesting to know that there is some thinking behind the end product.
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Yup, and font visuals by my better half. She works as graphic designer and tried to connect the design language of the font to the AERYS concept. The tilted left part of the ‘A’ accentuates speed for example. Thin lines to emphasize the precision engineering of XMCS. Open spaces in the Y for example to highlight the aero feeling.
This is not AI/LLM stuff after the fact, this is all in the internal design white paper.
Not that most of you care, but as background perhaps interesting to know that there is some thinking behind the end product.
All very interesting indeed. Great to hear.
All is coming together nicely - well done to all involved so far.
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The top headtube area is a let down for me. For an out and out aero frame, they should have the top bearing cover recessed into the frame like most aero frames on the market. With the bearing cover sitting proud like the photo makes the frame to handlebar transition look like any random frame off aliexpress.
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The top headtube area is a let down for me. For an out and out aero frame, they should have the top bearing cover recessed into the frame like most aero frames on the market. With the bearing cover sitting proud like the photo makes the frame to handlebar transition look like any random frame off aliexpress.
Not completely necessary for a good aero frame, just look at the Stromm.
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The top headtube area is a let down for me. For an out and out aero frame, they should have the top bearing cover recessed into the frame like most aero frames on the market. With the bearing cover sitting proud like the photo makes the frame to handlebar transition look like any random frame off aliexpress.
I definitely see your point and did notice it ok in the photo.
Certainly not a deal breaker, and the more I think about it, I’d definitely prefer a more standard bearing cover / spacer setup which would make putting any bars you want much easier rather than having to deal with custom made spacers and adapters which is a real pain as I’ve experienced with other proprietary setups.
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Too many good frames out these days
Havent gone through the whole thread. Any updates on price, tire clearance, ship dates?
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Too many good frames out these days
Havent gone through the whole thread. Any updates on price, tire clearance, ship dates?
1650 USD ex shipping / 35c / M & L can be ordered.
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ooh the Aerys is the most interested I have been in a new frame in a long time! @Peter or @Requiem84, any info on when the size S might be available?
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ooh the Aerys is the most interested I have been in a new frame in a long time! @Peter or @Requiem84, any info on when the size S might be available?
The AERYS:VRT then, as we got more Aeryses (plural?) coming ;-).
I haven’t heard clear dates, but I’d expect you can order size S in May. Peter is quite busy at Sea Otter, but he can confirm exacter timelines later.
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Just spotted Patty at the xmcs booth on the GC performance sea otter video.
Looking good folks 8)
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Sea Otter is not for introverts…
An interesting pattern I seen with the majority of Far East brands on display here is their efforts to be as inoffensive as possible. They don’t really initiate conversation and simply let the products speak for themselves. Even with eye contact. I know this is just cultural.
As an American who understands the dynamic needed in being approachable and speaking up, I’m happy to have done my small part in Peter’s booth to intrigued media folks and patrons. Sea Otter thrives on A-type personalities. It’s not just selling products. It’s really about offering an experience.
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Aeris is latin for air. And when discussing what is important to XMCS as brand Peter and team came up first with aerodynamics. Craftmanship. Quality. It also reflects the lightness of air and the efficiency in the xmcs designs. We can throw more marketing mumbo jumbo at it, but that’s the gist of it.
So this frame now officially is the AERYS:VRT, which stands for Vortex. The other road frame and gravel aero frame have a 3 letter abbreviation too but I leave it to Peter if he wants to share already.
To me, VRT immediately makes me think, "vertical." VRTX or maybe just VTX would make a little more sense to me. I understand it can be subjective though, different people might read it different ways. I can imagine people might reading those as "vertex."
I ran into Peter and Pat at Sea Otter, it was exciting to meet them both! I hadn't realized they would be there :) The frame looks really great in person, I wish I took pictures.
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Welcome AERYS!
Context: Aeris is latin for air. And when discussing what is important to XMCS as brand Peter and team came up first with aerodynamics. Craftmanship. Quality. It also reflects the lightness of air and the efficiency in the xmcs designs. We can throw more marketing mumbo jumbo at it, but that’s the gist of it.
So this frame now officially is the AERYS:VRT, which stands for Vortex. The other road frame and gravel aero frame have a 3 letter abbreviation too but I leave it to Peter if he wants to share already.
*Note: the fork placement of ‘VRT’ will change in position and size.
I am happy with the name and the frame looks just right. Great colour choice for Sea Otter as well.
Now, can it fit my 63y old frame? My bike fitter and time will tell.
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It’s probably orange to apple, but watching this video
https://youtu.be/XaUmi5xFo1M?si=008HR7pls9bz4hON
and seeing how X-Lab rep talked to the camera with confidence and commands I can see X-Lab will do well in US market.
Sea Otter is not for introverts…
An interesting pattern I seen with the majority of Far East brands on display here is their efforts to be as inoffensive as possible. They don’t really initiate conversation and simply let the products speak for themselves. Even with eye contact. I know this is just cultural.
As an American who understands the dynamic needed in being approachable and speaking up, I’m happy to have done my small part in Peter’s booth to intrigued media folks and patrons. Sea Otter thrives on A-type personalities. It’s not just selling products. It’s really about offering an experience.
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It’s probably orange to apple, but watching this video
https://youtu.be/XaUmi5xFo1M?si=008HR7pls9bz4hON
and seeing how X-Lab rep talked to the camera with confidence and commands I can see X-Lab will do well in US market.
XLab is moving executives and brand personnel from Veo Mobility, which XDS also owns. So they have a decade of experience doing business in the US with a lot of their people either US-born or at least educated in the US for college / graduate degrees. They talk like Americans because they are Americans.
Their chances of success are already high because of that. It's not really fair to compare them to XMCS, which operates at a different scale (as far as I have seen on the videos and stuff) and doesn't already have businesses operating globally.
It's pretty amazing IMO, what XMCS is building from forums to bikeshops without having resources or scale to take from elsewhere.
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I actually attended the X-Labs party/presentation. It was interesting to hear the executives, marketing reps, and even the family members speak about their future here in the USA as an X-Labs brand. It is a family-owned operation after all.
Of course I want to be very careful what I speak on in here. What I can say is their business model is very different than Peter's. X-Labs has very deep pockets. Very corporate. Their high-level objective it seems is to focus on expanding their dealer network to shops around the country. X-Labs is maneuvering like any other Western brand, so it makes sense why their Sea Otter booth was exceptionally inviting. Their engineer whom I spent 20 minutes talking with about their bike lineup was super friendly and informative. I hope in the future I have a chance to demo and review one of the latest bikes. But I can tell you right now they aren't interested in a lower-level Youtuber like myself. So that should tell you everything you need to know on how they want to position themselves in North America.
This makes me have so much respect for what Peter has been able to accomplish. He literally functioned as a one-man show at Sea Otter. From setting up and disassembling his booth, to working the booth alone all day in the sun for 4 days straight. All while being on an 11-hour jet lag. In fact I think Peter may have been the only booth at entire Sea Otter that was completely managed solo.
What does all of this mean for Peter and XMCS? I don't know LoL. But with Chinese brands finally on the big stage in America, 2027 will be an important year for XMCS.
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From my POV it’s important that XMCS stays true to itself. It’s very much rooted as an engineering company, where ‘no-nonsense’ is one of the key words.
Already when working on the AERYS branding we were conscious not to over do it. Xmcs should remain - my view - a bit understated, where the engineering speaks for itself.
If it becomes a slick marketing operation, it will feel fake. Because it would just be a façade. I don’t think it needs a smooth X-labs sales rep, I think the straightforwardness and in a way simplicity is stronger.
With all of these things, when you grow it’s important to stay true to yourself.
And also: be careful what you wish for. We all want a wind tunnel tested aero frame if sub 200w, which weighs 600g, in aggressive and relaxed geo, for 900usd, with recessed ht bearings, in spectactular paint schemes etc. If you try to do it all, it won’t work.
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Hi, I am also quite new to this thread. Where can the M and L frames be ordered? Is it the https://www.xmcs.nl website, because i can only find the GT frame on that site. Thanks for the help :)
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Hi, I am also quite new to this thread. Where can the M and L frames be ordered? Is it the https://www.xmcs.nl website, because i can only find the GT frame on that site. Thanks for the help :)
You can best send XMCS itself a message, as I don’t have much visibility on the frames, lead times etc yet given they are so new.
Drop Allen a note here: allenli@xmcarbonspeed.com
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Any updates on release or finalized pricing on this? Might build a race bike for next season
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Apologies for leaving folks in the dark.
1. I'm told a full range of sizes will be available this Summer. Peter is waiting for the wind tunnel results from Silverstone. And while I highly doubt the results will have any influence on the further production of frame sizes, he probably is just being cautious. Plus Peter has been busy preparing for Euro Bike 2026.
2. Pricing will be somewhere between $1800-$1900 incl handlebar and basic custom paint option.
3. I've been riding the AERYS for the past 4 weeks and it's a super solid bike. Fast and it feels well rounded. The deep headtube is fantastic in a tailwind. And also not so ideal in 40kph crosswinds which are common this time of year here in Chicago. No frame with this type of headtube is above its crosswind challenges. Would be happy racing with this bike if I wasn't so nervous crashing a newly released design.
4. The main hurdle preventing me from offering a full review is I'm waiting for Peter to release a 20mm setback seatpost next month. In short, I can't really get the saddle far enough back behind the bottom bracket due to the 74° seat tube angle and the supplied zero setback seat post. This is totally a me problem. Most riders don't have a 9.5cm saddle setback like myself. And no I didn't choose the wrong frame size. It's why I personally advocate for 73° seat posts. But maybe just the trend towards being more over the BB isn't something I can get behind (no pun) personally. Anything less than a 9cm saddle setback and my knees start screaming at me.
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That price increase is the real stickler tbh, I've no doubts at all on quality and would be happy to spend more considering how good my cs-r01 has been, but when you go over 1500 for a frame you really start to incorporate resale into the decision, brands like Tavelo and winspace hold better mindshare in that regard and are seen as a more known bet.
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That price increase is the real stickler tbh, I've no doubts at all on quality and would be happy to spend more considering how good my cs-r01 has been, but when you go over 1500 for a frame you really start to incorporate resale into the decision, brands like Tavelo and winspace hold better mindshare in that regard and are seen as a more known bet.
Between 1800 and 1900 dollars including handlebar (by the way, those are relatively expensive compared to frame + fork) and a custom color sounds pretty good if you ask me. Sure, it's a lot of money and the brand is lesser known, but still cheaper than a flagship model Tavelo or Winspace.
Maybe we will see a price drop to $1200 just as the Gran Tourismo.
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Apologies for leaving folks in the dark.
1. I'm told a full range of sizes will be available this Summer. Peter is waiting for the wind tunnel results from Silverstone. And while I highly doubt the results will have any influence on the further production of frame sizes, he probably is just being cautious. Plus Peter has been busy preparing for Euro Bike 2026.
2. Pricing will be somewhere between $1800-$1900 incl handlebar and basic custom paint option.
3. I've been riding the AERYS for the past 4 weeks and it's a super solid bike. Fast and it feels well rounded. The deep headtube is fantastic in a tailwind. And also not so ideal in 40kph crosswinds which are common this time of year here in Chicago. No frame with this type of headtube is above its crosswind challenges. Would be happy racing with this bike if I wasn't so nervous crashing a newly released design.
4. The main hurdle preventing me from offering a full review is I'm waiting for Peter to release a 20mm setback seatpost next month. In short, I can't really get the saddle far enough back behind the bottom bracket due to the 74° seat tube angle and the supplied zero setback seat post. This is totally a me problem. Most riders don't have a 9.5cm saddle setback like myself. And no I didn't choose the wrong frame size. It's why I personally advocate for 73° seat posts. But maybe just the trend towards being more over the BB isn't something I can get behind (no pun) personally. Anything less than a 9cm saddle setback and my knees start screaming at me.
Are there any pictures you can share of the fully build bike so far? I'm very interested to see how the frame looks like with all components assembled.
Also the price sounds ok for me.
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Are there any pictures you can share of the fully build bike so far?
If you do not follow Patty on Instagram, you should consider it 8)
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Apologies for leaving folks in the dark.
1. I'm told a full range of sizes will be available this Summer. Peter is waiting for the wind tunnel results from Silverstone. And while I highly doubt the results will have any influence on the further production of frame sizes, he probably is just being cautious. Plus Peter has been busy preparing for Euro Bike 2026.
2. Pricing will be somewhere between $1800-$1900 incl handlebar and basic custom paint option.
3. I've been riding the AERYS for the past 4 weeks and it's a super solid bike. Fast and it feels well rounded. The deep headtube is fantastic in a tailwind. And also not so ideal in 40kph crosswinds which are common this time of year here in Chicago. No frame with this type of headtube is above its crosswind challenges. Would be happy racing with this bike if I wasn't so nervous crashing a newly released design.
4. The main hurdle preventing me from offering a full review is I'm waiting for Peter to release a 20mm setback seatpost next month. In short, I can't really get the saddle far enough back behind the bottom bracket due to the 74° seat tube angle and the supplied zero setback seat post. This is totally a me problem. Most riders don't have a 9.5cm saddle setback like myself. And no I didn't choose the wrong frame size. It's why I personally advocate for 73° seat posts. But maybe just the trend towards being more over the BB isn't something I can get behind (no pun) personally. Anything less than a 9cm saddle setback and my knees start screaming at me.
can you please share some picture of the full built?
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The final form of this build will be someone around 6.8kg all in. Currently its around 7kg. I really need that setback seat post from Peter so that I can run my preferred saddle which is around 100g lighter. And I'll pop in some 30c tires instead of the current 32s.
For reference, my Quick Pro ER:One currently sits at exactly 7kg all in with similar-ish components. But using Yoeleo 60mm wheels with steel spokes that weigh 1360g for the set. Not only is the AERYS frame slightly lighter over the Quick Pro, these new XMCS wheels weigh a whopping 310g LESS. 1050g for the pair. Incredible for a set of 50mm.
Of course I could just slap the XMCS wheels onto the QuickPro and immediately drop it down to 6.7kg
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The final form of this build will be someone around 6.8kg all in. Currently its around 7kg. I really need that setback seat post from Peter so that I can run my preferred saddle which is around 100g lighter. And I'll pop in some 30c tires instead of the current 32s.
For reference, my Quick Pro ER:One currently sits at exactly 7kg all in with similar-ish components. But using Yoeleo 60mm wheels with steel spokes that weigh 1360g for the set. Not only is the AERYS frame slightly lighter over the Quick Pro, these new XMCS wheels weigh a whopping 310g LESS. 1050g for the pair. Incredible for a set of 50mm.
Of course I could just slap the XMCS wheels onto the QuickPro and immediately drop it down to 6.7kg
Looking good!
The thing I am most interested in now is comfort. At 63y old I checked with the bike fitter that the frame can work for me. It can but that would be undone if the frame rides harshly. Looking forward to your review.
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Looking good!
The thing I am most interested in now is comfort. At 63y old I checked with the bike fitter that the frame can work for me. It can but that would be undone if the frame rides harshly. Looking forward to your review.
It’s an aero race bike. It won’t be a super smooth comfortable ride. Same for any aero race bike. The tube profiles make is impossible to make it into a plush smooth ride.
If you want more comfort, look at the XMCS Gran Tourismo frameset already available.
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It’s an aero race bike. It won’t be a super smooth comfortable ride. Same for any aero race bike. The tube profiles make is impossible to make it into a plush smooth ride.
If you want more comfort, look at the XMCS Gran Tourismo frameset already available.
It’s about balance. I am not looking for super smooth ride. Some aero frames are especially harsh-others less so. See the reviews of the propel. Pat has ridden a few and tyres and tyre pressure aside probably has enough experience of aero frames to say where this one lands.
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35mm tires will make a big difference anyway.
And the new crop of 35’s is pretty fast too.
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Already got some good news, but really excited to know more detailed results, we just keep up our work to make high quality stuff.
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Thanks for the update, Peter! Is the all-rounder still in the works as well? Seems like a better fit for my needs.
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Looks awesome. The model needs probably a different font. Thicker/bolder, like the XMCS on the wheels
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Bike looks really cool Peter, can't wait for more updates
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The final form of this build will be someone around 6.8kg all in. Currently its around 7kg. I really need that setback seat post from Peter so that I can run my preferred saddle which is around 100g lighter. And I'll pop in some 30c tires instead of the current 32s.
For reference, my Quick Pro ER:One currently sits at exactly 7kg all in with similar-ish components. But using Yoeleo 60mm wheels with steel spokes that weigh 1360g for the set. Not only is the AERYS frame slightly lighter over the Quick Pro, these new XMCS wheels weigh a whopping 310g LESS. 1050g for the pair. Incredible for a set of 50mm.
Of course I could just slap the XMCS wheels onto the QuickPro and immediately drop it down to 6.7kg
Could you give a quick comparison to the velobuild aerotrace build you did? Are they a similar bike or is the Xmcs a more rounded less TT like bike. No sweat of you can't
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If you see the Winspace M6 at the same price or even less, I'm ending up at like 1.655$ and free shipping.
I kind of would expect either higher quality or a lower price compared to Winspace. Still interesting and I'm looking forward to test results and final specs.
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Statement on the naming below.
Dear customers and bicycling fans,
We have an important update to share with you. Recently, another company in the bicycling industry has notified us that they are concerned about the XMCS trademark application of ‘AERYS’. They have asked us to withdraw the application as they are of the view that their trademark, whilst different and whilst used in a different bicycle segment than road/gravel racing is ‘too similar’.
We are of the view that we have good arguments should it result in a legal matter. However, given the uncertain outcome and potential very high costs involved - with pain in our hearts - we have decided to not use ‘AERYS’ any further.
We have developed the concept and branding of AERYS with a lot of passion and dedication to create a powerful platform for XMCS’ current and upcoming premium road and gravel race line-up. Although saddened to let AERYS go, we are committed to keep on building the high end products our customers enjoy every day. With that same commitment we have a developed a new premium line-up brand name. It will take a while before we can share it and use it.
Until we are there, we will be offering our frames without branding or with the new XMCS logo as pictured above.
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Until we are there, we will be offering our frames without branding
When will the frame be available to purchase.
The website doesn´t list it yet.
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You can send an inquiry to Peter. It's not yet available in all sizes tho.
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Does a sizing chart exist for the frame.
Interested in sizes M/L
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Does a sizing chart exist for the frame.
Interested in sizes M/L
You can find them in the first post of this topic.... ;)
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Statement on the naming below.
Honestly, the AERYS brand font/logo wasn't to my taste...if I were Peter, I'd keep the XMCS brand, but I'd work on the logo, perhaps differentiating it from the one used for the rest of the production.
I don't like the new logo on Patrick's bike; I think the one created by a forum user for the Gran Turismo frame is much better (see photo).
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Already got some good news, but really excited to know more detailed results, we just keep up our work to make high quality stuff.
Beautiful frame!
I see that most aero frames have a very straight/not very sloping top tube...I suppose this is related to aerodynamics and/or the overall stiffness desired for the frame....but I'd like to see more sloping aero frames in the future (see Cervélo S5) with a seat tube length of 500/510mm for a size 56 instead of the usual 520/540mm.
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With the white brand font, it looks much better with clean wheels. Thanks for the shot Patty, really a shame we can’t use it :-). I hope you don’t mind me posting it.
Almost starting with our build, few last things with the gravel frame to be done. I gotta say, the VRT is quite a special frame.
Painted, with UDH hanger and front derailler mount just a hair above 900g. It has a very narrow front profile. Can’t wait to have it fully build up and give it a go.
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@Requiem84 does your frame still have the Aerys decals?
Can't wait to come check it out IRL soon!
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@Requiem84 does your frame still have the Aerys decals?
Can't wait to come check it out IRL soon!
Nope, completely clean frame.
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With the white brand font, it looks much better with clean wheels. Thanks for the shot Patty, really a shame we can’t use it :-). I hope you don’t mind me posting it.
Almost starting with our build, few last things with the gravel frame to be done. I gotta say, the VRT is quite a special frame.
Painted, with UDH hanger and front derailler mount just a hair above 900g. It has a very narrow front profile. Can’t wait to have it fully build up and give it a go.
Yikes, didn't realise the frame was going to come in that light. What size frame is that for?
I assume the plans for a super light frame are on hold or cancelled, but pretty much not needed when your normal frame is coming in at that weight - crazy good.
What are the updates on availability and final pricing?
As fantastically good as it all is, its under severe pressure all of a sudden from quite a few upcoming framesets (thinking of the LCR020-D in particular).
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I've been purposely avoiding spamming this thread with micro updates and random photos until everything on Peter's side gets sorted out. Plus we are waiting for a couple more wind tunnel validation results before making my long form video update.
The bike has been lovely. I've been doing my usual routes and activities to get a good feel of the riding dynamics. This includes using a variety of wheels, rim depths, and tire sizes along with varying ride conditions. Chicago has seen some crazy windy days as of late.
XMCS VRT vs Quick Pro ER:One vs Scott Foil
-The XMCS VRT "feels" the fastest in a straight line versus the other two frames. Especially in a tailwind. And is also the least controlled in strong crosswinds. This shouldn't be a surprise given the deep headtube. This could also be a rider bike fit specific variable.
-In terms of immediate responsiveness when you mash on the pedal that award goes to the Scott Foil. That said, both the XMCS VRT and Quick Pro are marginally more comfortable bikes to ride. Slight edge to the XMCS VRT.
-Nimbleness the XMCS VRT is a close second to the Foil. I like the way it climbs out of the saddle.
-74° seat tube. I keep coming back to this as I am really trying my best to embrace the current trend of more saddle forward bike fits. Truthfully I don't have choice on the XMCS VRT because my saddle's rails are at their limits, and still have about a 15mm setback delta from my usual bike fit. This setup is probably "okay" for a 30 minute crit. But I wouldn't wanna do this for a 5 hour ride. This isn't intended to scare anyone away. I am well aware to be in the small minority. Peter will be releasing a 15mm setback post sometime this Summer. So in terms of bike fit I found the Scott Foil and Quick Pro easier to set up.
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Yikes, didn't realise the frame was going to come in that light. What size frame is that for?
I assume the plans for a super light frame are on hold or cancelled, but pretty much not needed when your normal frame is coming in at that weight - crazy good.
What are the updates on availability and final pricing?
As fantastically good as it all is, its under severe pressure all of a sudden from quite a few upcoming framesets (thinking of the LCR020-D in particular).
I need to correct myself on this one, think my scales had a Monday morning when I weighed it.
Painted frame, size L, no derailler mount, no UDH hanger, 4 (bottle) bolts weighs 961.9g.
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-74° seat tube. I keep coming back to this as I am really trying my best to embrace the current trend of more saddle forward bike fits. Truthfully I don't have choice on the XMCS VRT because my saddle's rails are at their limits, and still have about a 15mm setback delta from my usual bike fit. This setup is probably "okay" for a 30 minute crit. But I wouldn't wanna do this for a 5 hour ride. This isn't intended to scare anyone away. I am well aware to be in the small minority. Peter will be releasing a 15mm setback post sometime this Summer. So in terms of bike fit I found the Scott Foil and Quick Pro easier to set up.
Really interesting!
Slighlty OT, but I will say that all trends aren't for all people and it's really dependent on your body shape/proportions. I've recently gone from a BMC with a 74deg seat tube (15mm offset sp) to a Supersix Evo with 72.3deg (20mm offset sp), with a significant increase in comfort.
Was I able to push more absolute watts on the BMC? Possibly for intervals <20min. As you say, anything more and fatigue sets in.
Best solution? Try a saddle that doesn't taper a lot toward the front i.e. Specialized Power Evo so you can be supported when putting in really hard efforts if required.
Hopefully the 15mm seatpost rectifies the fit issue for you.
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-74° seat tube. I keep coming back to this as I am really trying my best to embrace the current trend of more saddle forward bike fits. Truthfully I don't have choice on the XMCS VRT because my saddle's rails are at their limits, and still have about a 15mm setback delta from my usual bike fit. This setup is probably "okay" for a 30 minute crit. But I wouldn't wanna do this for a 5 hour ride. This isn't intended to scare anyone away. I am well aware to be in the small minority. Peter will be releasing a 15mm setback post sometime this Summer. So in terms of bike fit I found the Scott Foil and Quick Pro easier to set up.
This bike sounds incredible--I personally really look forward to hearing more about this. Quick Pro has become the one of the most visible brands in my area on the road, probably almost to the same level as Canyon. I rarely ever saw Winspace etc, so this the benchmark against them will be interesting.
RE: fit. I think you need to get completely refitted before you try the forward position and make it work. It's not going to work for everyone, but I think there is a significant underestimation of the change required to put your body forward and maintain a comfortable, stable position that also uses your glutes. I think that the people who have been doing this the longest aren't just slamming seatposts forward; they are also moving saddles down and using shorter cranks, using the bit of the open hip angle to make up for how the power-producing part of the pedal stroke has shifted a bit. It also wouldn't surprise me if they are running their cleats further forward and not slamming those back, which would reduce peak loads on the knee joints. Then on the front--they are going a lot longer to stretch out, something that this bike, geometry-wise, doesn't support as it's too short given the stem lengths you already use. Idk if you want to revisit using the OUO track stem or a 160mm Deda Superbox, but those could be options to consider, even with a regular-width bar, if you want to play with it.
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I think that the people who have been doing this the longest aren't just slamming seatposts forward; they are also moving saddles down and using shorter cranks, using the bit of the open hip angle to make up for how the power-producing part of the pedal stroke has shifted a bit. It also wouldn't surprise me if they are running their cleats further forward and not slamming those back, which would reduce peak loads on the knee joints. Then on the front--they are going a lot longer to stretch out, something that this bike, geometry-wise, doesn't support as it's too short given the stem lengths you already use. Idk if you want to revisit using the OUO track stem or a 160mm Deda Superbox, but those could be options to consider, even with a regular-width bar, if you want to play with it.
A very keen eye and memory you have. I am both impressed and flattered you remembered. SALUTE!
This sounds strange but I actually find satisfaction in tinkering with my bike fit. Almost as much as building bikes. And I always use masking tape markings and record all measurements before making tweaks. My logic is I wont know my absolute optimal bike fit unless I experiment. But I don't touch my primary bikes. For the off-season I'm going to do a full reset from scratch and just play around with every single variable.
My body is a disaster. Not only do I have collapsed foot arches which are totally flat, I have skinny heels and a very high instep. So my inward pedaling style has me occasionally rubbing both the top tube and seat post. Add to the fact my right leg is shorter by about 5-6mm due to a basketball injury, I've gotten accustomed to asymmetry on the bike. No saddle sores or knee pain. Just asymmetry. Gotta love insoles and wedges. Never mind my long arms, femurs, and super short torso.
I've gone to two professional bike fitters. One said I need an even longer reach. The other said I need to move my saddle forward. Both have said my body has a particularly easy ability to adjust to extreme and suboptimal fits. Whatever that means. At this point I'd rather just do it myself with a turbo trainer and a camera. I am super jealous of anyone with a smooth and symmetrical pedaling style.
Perhaps the Factor One might be my solution :o
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Personally I wish we would see more bikes with steeper SA. That's the direction anyway yhe industry will move into.
Look at just released Eddy Merckx with 75 degree SA, somewhat higher stack and longer reach to accommodate a comfortable but narrow position that you can hold for longer = more aero, less frontal area, chest cavity area nore closed off. Look at the new Crux, 74 degree SA. Obviously everything needs to work together with correct BB drop etc but I am pretty sure we will see a lot of new bikes with numbers similar to the new Eddy.
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The Merckx in the size L seems really nice. I think the Noah Fast 3.0 with 5mm or 10mm drop to increase the stack is a little nicer in the M and S sizes. One of the challenges here is that with drop bars you cant close up the body like you do on TT bikes, nor do you get the aerobars that are basically fairings these days, so a higher stack frame is only faster if you don't get more aero by moving your body lower. AFAIK, the aero position analogy to TT bikes is more like it was with straight extensions from back in the day, vs. the current high-hands ones.
Edit: this is topical and released today https://escapecollective.com/traditional-vs-progressive-road-geometry-a-wind-tunnel-test/. The summary is too high a lot slower, too low a little slower. There is such a thing as a just-right height.
Either way, it's great that more choices are coming for bikes like this, but it's going to take a while for things to settle out.
My body is a disaster. Not only do I have collapsed foot arches which are totally flat, I have skinny heels and a very high instep. So my inward pedaling style has me occasionally rubbing both the top tube and seat post. Add to the fact my right leg is shorter by about 5-6mm due to a basketball injury, I've gotten accustomed to asymmetry on the bike. No saddle sores or knee pain. Just asymmetry. Gotta love insoles and wedges. Never mind my long arms, femurs, and super short torso.
I've gone to two professional bike fitters. One said I need an even longer reach. The other said I need to move my saddle forward. Both have said my body has a particularly easy ability to adjust to extreme and suboptimal fits. Whatever that means. At this point, I'd rather just do it myself with a turbo trainer and a camera. I am super jealous of anyone with a smooth and symmetrical pedaling style.
Perhaps the Factor One might be my solution :o
The ability to play with fit whenever I feel like it has, IMO, made my Kickr Bike one of my best-value quality-of-life purchases. I've managed to get less fit but faster and be comfortable for longer on the bike. Up there with a good blender and coffee maker.
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Some footage of the VRT for Eurobike on our instagram.
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A very keen eye and memory you have. I am both impressed and flattered you remembered. SALUTE!
This sounds strange but I actually find satisfaction in tinkering with my bike fit. Almost as much as building bikes. And I always use masking tape markings and record all measurements before making tweaks. My logic is I wont know my absolute optimal bike fit unless I experiment. But I don't touch my primary bikes. For the off-season I'm going to do a full reset from scratch and just play around with every single variable.
My body is a disaster. Not only do I have collapsed foot arches which are totally flat, I have skinny heels and a very high instep. So my inward pedaling style has me occasionally rubbing both the top tube and seat post. Add to the fact my right leg is shorter by about 5-6mm due to a basketball injury, I've gotten accustomed to asymmetry on the bike. No saddle sores or knee pain. Just asymmetry. Gotta love insoles and wedges. Never mind my long arms, femurs, and super short torso.
I've gone to two professional bike fitters. One said I need an even longer reach. The other said I need to move my saddle forward. Both have said my body has a particularly easy ability to adjust to extreme and suboptimal fits. Whatever that means. At this point I'd rather just do it myself with a turbo trainer and a camera. I am super jealous of anyone with a smooth and symmetrical pedaling style.
Perhaps the Factor One might be my solution :o
I have similar problems and i have been riding since 16 so body gets used to asymmetry. I also have gone to bikefits and they have caused pain and discomfort more than anything else.
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Some footage of the VRT for Eurobike on our instagram.
Looking good. How does the frame/fork compare with other aero bikes in terms of stiffness ?
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Some footage of the VRT for Eurobike on our instagram.
Looks absolutely amazing. Might have to get a full set from XMCS (frameset + wheelset + riser handlebar) for next summer
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Looking good. How does the frame/fork compare with other aero bikes in terms of stiffness ?
Didn’t ride it yet - will bring them to Eurobike tomorrow and don’t want to clean them again.
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The riser bar is Peter's or aftermarket?
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Peter’s.
Frame, wheels, handlebars all XMCS.
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After seeing Hambini's Instagram, it appears the aero tests are done and the results are in with comparison to Cervelo S5 and Quick pro? Any results that can be shared here?
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After seeing Hambini's Instagram, it appears the aero tests are done and the results are in with comparison to Cervelo S5 and Quick pro? Any results that can be shared here?
I will be sharing the results in a full length video this week. I was holding off making my review on the VRT until the data was finalized.
The information is nuanced so the plan is to stick to just the high level information since I'm not Hambini or Peak Torque 8)
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Get on with it man! :)
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I will be sharing the results in a full length video this week. I was holding off making my review on the VRT until the data was finalized.
The information is nuanced so the plan is to stick to just the high level information since I'm not Hambini or Peak Torque 8)
Exactly. You're Patty and that's why we like it so much!
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Some footage of the VRT for Eurobike on our instagram.
Frame size and saddle height in the photo?
Thanks.
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Frame size and saddle height in the photo?
Thanks.
L, 75cm.
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INCOMING!
YouTube Search: FASTER Than Cervelo S5 & Quick Pro - XM CarbonSpeed VRT
27 minutes long 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tApX8P_7Pp0
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Well….thats this evenings viewing sorted! :-)
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INCOMING!
YouTube Search: FASTER Than Cervelo S5 & Quick Pro - XM CarbonSpeed VRT
27 minutes long 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tApX8P_7Pp0
Great job Patty!! Loved the review and not shocked by the results. I am currently riding a XMCS R01 and love it!!
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INCOMING!
YouTube Search: FASTER Than Cervelo S5 & Quick Pro - XM CarbonSpeed VRT
27 minutes long 8)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tApX8P_7Pp0
Great job dude! I do think you have a point when it comes to the prog fit not being for everyone, more glute and even hamstring fominant guys might just need a saddle position with more setback.
I always used to be a skinny kid with a big, muscular ass, so finding a position that lets me use those big cheeks in an optimal way might be more important.
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Peak Torque just messaged me:
“You can pay Silverstone for the results you want to see.”
Do what you want with that information ;D
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Peak Torque just messaged me:
“You can pay Silverstone for the results you want to see.”
Do what you want with that information ;D
I guess that depends a lot on the testing protocol, but this one and the Seka Spear one look solid.
Rider on bike is imo where it gets complicate.
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Peak Torque just messaged me:
“You can pay Silverstone for the results you want to see.”
Do what you want with that information ;D
These tests reports never look as strict and standardized as you'd want them to be.
2 important points: the test w rider doesn't include S5 + reserve wheels + rider. I would want to see that, vs VRT + XMCS wheels + rider.
That being said, i think it's fair to say that the frame is very fast. It looks like an S5, the head tube is narrow and deep, the fork is wide and deep, the down tube looks good, there's nothing in the frame design that raises suspicion.
I suspect that the S5 + reserve is faster than the VRT, BUT probably by a small margin, and i'm sure AF not spending S5 money on a frame :)
As far as i'm concerned, the crux is tyre clearance. The S5 can't take 35C. If the VRT can genuinely take 35C (i thought it was 32C as per earlier messages in this thread?), which means 38-40mm measured tyre & a FD, then you have something that's future proof for the next 5y, using a conti gp5000 35C on a wide rim.
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These tests reports never look as strict and standardized as you'd want them to be.
2 important points: the test w rider doesn't include S5 + reserve wheels + rider. I would want to see that, vs VRT + XMCS wheels + rider.
That being said, i think it's fair to say that the frame is very fast. It looks like an S5, the head tube is narrow and deep, the fork is wide and deep, the down tube looks good, there's nothing in the frame design that raises suspicion.
I suspect that the S5 + reserve is faster than the VRT, BUT probably by a small margin, and i'm sure AF not spending S5 money on a frame :)
As far as i'm concerned, the crux is tyre clearance. The S5 can't take 35C. If the VRT can genuinely take 35C (i thought it was 32C as per earlier messages in this thread?), which means 38-40mm measured tyre & a FD, then you have something that's future proof for the next 5y, using a conti gp5000 35C on a wide rim.
We had aero engineers from Scope and Audi F1 at our booth, and they wanted to know every little detail about the wind tunnel testing. The general feedback that I’m getting from people here at Eurobike that claim to ‘know’ engineering/aero is that both the wheels and VRT simply have sound aero basics. Perhaps not the (iterative) refinement of some other brands, but as an aero concept they have simply gone in the right direction.
As for tire clearance, the P Zero SL R now mounted, measure 31.5mm and we seem to have about 8mm+ clearance at the rear. So 38mm WAM may fit - TBC after Eurobike. I think it will look a lot better, as it will close the gap to the DT a bit.
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I have many questions with the test results one of which you already addressed with peak torque's comment.
The statement faster than, as fast, slower than...great as a YouTube title to draw the attention, but very irrelevant after looking at the high level test set-up results as explained in the video.
The only conclusion I draw is that the frame is in line with the bettter aero bikes currently on the market.
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I have many questions with the test results one of which you already addressed with peak torque's comment.
The statement faster than, as fast, slower than...great as a YouTube title to draw the attention, but very irrelevant after looking at the high level test set-up results as explained in the video.
The only conclusion I draw is that the frame is in line with the bettter aero bikes currently on the market.
I think that is a very fair conclusion.
As for ‘paying to get the results you want’, surely they’d then also ensured the VRT did better at bike only testing, where the S5 tested a bit faster.
I find it quite complicated how to share the wind tunnel story. In my mind, the story is that the VRT has world tour performance. It truly is a fast bike. But if you put that statement out there, people tell me: ok, if you say that show me the test results - in full. Then - like Patty - the results are shared and the conversation goes ‘how can it be faster than an S5 (with rider)?!’.
It’s difficult to do this right, as it’s quite complicated and nuanced. And in the era we live in, people prefer black and white.
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I was surprised, not in a positive way, when Patty showed a Word document with numbers that, to me, seemed random.
I’m not saying they are false, or that Patty didn’t make a good video. I actually watched the whole 25+ minutes with interest. I’m just saying that I would have appreciated some kind of document or source that verified and confirmed the data.
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In my mind, the story is that the VRT has world tour performance. It truly is a fast bike.
That should be the bottom line and can be marketed by XMCS as such, if the test was set out as pure validation.
In that case the "buy your result" spin wouldn't make much sense.
Regardless the result is impressive, especially with their own wheels.
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I haven't watched the video (will do later today), but maybe someone can help me guestimate the weight for the built with this frame:
VRT, sizse 54 (178 tall)
XMCS wheels (1250ish)
Older 11sp ultegra Di2 with ultegra or campa rotors
ryet-style printed sadle
crank + powermeter + 52/36 rings --> to be decided (magene, with passquest wheels)
I'd like to know if 6,8-7,1 kilo is realistic
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Weights as measured on my own scale for the Eurobike VRT (6.48kg excl pedals).
Frame, painted, no hardware except bolts: 961.9g
Fork, uncut: 470.0g
Fork, cut: 439.0g
Seatpost, uncut: 192.1g
Seatpost, cut: 167.1g.
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Peter has not yet given me the green light to post the actual full PDF report. Hence why I included just screenshots from that document in the video along with my Word notes. He also had no input on what I chose to share.
Nothing nefarious. I have not gotten the impression I was being asked to cherry pick only the "good" aspects of the report. I did spend a fair bit of time combing through the report, but really the only way to resolve this is by making the report public. Especially since the VRT will be discussed on Nero Show next week.
The main takeaway is the VRT design is aerodynamically sound versus a couple of other popular frames, as mentioned above. And I don't think making purchasing decisions based on a couple of watt difference is a smart idea. I still struggle personally to setup my VRT fit-wise which is far more important than any aerodynamic claims.
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So....when can we order (and receive) the M size?
Directly from Peter or also from xcms.nl? Same availability /price/taxes/shipping to Europe?
Can we choose both the...traditional handlebar and the riser one? Personally if there is no low stack issue, I wouldn't bother with the riser.
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So....when can we order (and receive) the M size?
Directly from Peter or also from xcms.nl? Same availability /price/taxes/shipping to Europe?
Can we choose both the...traditional handlebar and the riser one? Personally if there is no low stack issue, I wouldn't bother with the riser.
All sizes apart from XS can be ordered.
Whilst I’ll keep offering wheels, frames you cannot order with me - only via Peter. I will focus on complete bikes with XMCS frames, handlebars and wheels.
Frames not yet live yet on Peter’s website, should be added week after Eurobike, but you can already send him a whatsapp to order the frame if you can’t wait.
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Between 6 and 8kg (irrespective of rider height, unless it's a Tuesday around noon)
Thanks, that helps. Really stoked that the cycle of the moon and/or temperature does not seem to influence the weight of the frame!
I'm pretty sure it will be between 6,7 and 7,5kg, but a better guestimate from the specialists is still welcome :)
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I still think Peter's biggest issue is price, it could be the best bike in the world but it won't hold the resale or word of mouth of a winspace, quick pro, Tavelo or the like while costing roughly the same.i say this as someone with full confidence in Xmcs and love my rs01
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This is one of the best looking aero frames on the market. Also among the few with 35mm clearance AND large sizes. Most chinese frames top out at M-L sizes. My 32mm GP5000 STR measures 33.9mm on 25mm internal width rims.
Of course the new lightcarbon frame is a big contender.
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Yeah the sizing is great goes up to what would be labeled a 61 in most brands. I might debate trying to sell my gravel frame for this since I ride 99% road anyways...
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Peter has not yet given me the green light to post the actual full PDF report. Hence why I included just screenshots from that document in the video along with my Word notes. He also had no input on what I chose to share.
Nothing nefarious. I have not gotten the impression I was being asked to cherry pick only the "good" aspects of the report. I did spend a fair bit of time combing through the report, but really the only way to resolve this is by making the report public. Especially since the VRT will be discussed on Nero Show next week.
The main takeaway is the VRT design is aerodynamically sound versus a couple of other popular frames, as mentioned above. And I don't think making purchasing decisions based on a couple of watt difference is a smart idea. I still struggle personally to setup my VRT fit-wise which is far more important than any aerodynamic claims.
Patty how do yo feel about the carbon spoked XMCS wheels? In your er One update video you mentioned that after switching from carbon spoked wheels to steel spokes, you enyojed the ride quality much more. I am strongly considering the VRT frame and I am torn about the wheels as I am not sold on the carbon spokes either but XMCS do not offer steel spoked wheels with large enough internal width. I am therefore contemplating whether to stick with XMCS wheels or find a steel spoke wheelset elsewhere. Have you perhaps tested the VRT with a steel spoke wheelset to be able to compare? Any input would be appreciated, thanks!
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Patty how do yo feel about the carbon spoked XMCS wheels? In your er One update video you mentioned that after switching from carbon spoked wheels to steel spokes, you enyojed the ride quality much more. I am strongly considering the VRT frame and I am torn about the wheels as I am not sold on the carbon spokes either but XMCS do not offer steel spoked wheels with large enough internal width. I am therefore contemplating whether to stick with XMCS wheels or find a steel spoke wheelset elsewhere. Have you perhaps tested the VRT with a steel spoke wheelset to be able to compare? Any input would be appreciated, thanks!
You can choose to get steel spokes with every rim width, just text Allen or Peter.
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Patty how do yo feel about the carbon spoked XMCS wheels? In your er One update video you mentioned that after switching from carbon spoked wheels to steel spokes, you enyojed the ride quality much more. I am strongly considering the VRT frame and I am torn about the wheels as I am not sold on the carbon spokes either but XMCS do not offer steel spoked wheels with large enough internal width. I am therefore contemplating whether to stick with XMCS wheels or find a steel spoke wheelset elsewhere. Have you perhaps tested the VRT with a steel spoke wheelset to be able to compare? Any input would be appreciated, thanks!
I don't see any substantial benefit from carbon spokes that can break the deal. XMCS can assemble any wheelset using steel spoke and that's where I want. I have same 58-33 T1000 rims but with steel CX-Rays.
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I still think Peter's biggest issue is price, it could be the best bike in the world but it won't hold the resale or word of mouth of a winspace, quick pro, Tavelo or the like while costing roughly the same.i say this as someone with full confidence in Xmcs and love my rs01
Agreed, IMHO XMCS is small, niche and totally unknown outside the "Chiner" community. It needs UCI certification, and some team sponsorships. I recall Quick Oro blowing up, once the AR ONE was ridden to win the Junior world championship and gave it "legitimacy".
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Agreed, IMHO XMCS is small, niche and totally unknown outside the "Chiner" community. It needs UCI certification, and some team sponsorships. I recall Quick Oro blowing up, once the AR ONE was ridden to win the Junior world championship and gave it "legitimacy".
it's true that Harry Hudson's victory in the junior world champs road race lent Quick Pro more credibility. But with that in mind, the price for that frame hasn't changed since that happened. Quick Pro priced it at what they thought it was worth. Arguably, it lived up to the price/hype. They didn't price it cheap and then suddenly raise the price once it got more recognition. Who's to say Peter isn't doing the exact same thing?
I do think UCI certification would be helpful, just for credibility, even though the certification doesn't mean anything besides "meets tube shape requirements for UCI races." It doesn't have anything to do with safety, QC or ISO requirements.
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Where I am (USA) Quick Pro is putting a lot of discounted product into the hands of clubs and racers. That + the Legion and ButherBox crit team sponsorships probably mean more than the UCI Conti teams (including Eskudi) or the Jr WC.
Local shops have built a lot of Quick Pros for local racers so they become easy to recommend over Canyons or whatever consumer direct brand a customer might want for a lower cost bike. Most large cities have 1-2 top shops with an ex WT or WC mechanic. They tend to have large networks with people that trust their recommendations. I think it was not intentional, but Quick Pros got to a lot of these folks.
Quick Pro didn't lean on influencers very much and intentionally went for racers (and got their mechanics). I think a rec from a racer or mechanic you know carries a lot more weight than a YouTube personality with unknown or shady credentials and a history of questionable forum posts.
XMCS might not have the cash to try and go for grassroots racers at that scale, so replicating what QuickPro did might be difficult.
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Not sure if it was the bike, the tires or the wheels,
Or just going narrow width of the hb (or the ospw 😉), but it certainly wasn’t me.
Anyway 35 km/h+ average with 207 watts is not something I have seen before on any of my other bikes, including my Aeroad.
https://strava.app.link/QXoKf1kbw4b
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I think I'm going to pull the trigger on this one after I do my bike fit/sizing on Thursday.
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Not sure if it was the bike, the tires or the wheels,
Or just going narrow width of the hb (or the ospw 😉), but it certainly wasn’t me.
Anyway 35 km/h+ average with 207 watts is not something I have seen before on any of my other bikes, including my Aeroad.
https://strava.app.link/QXoKf1kbw4b
Oooo, good work!
You need to do another lap on a comparable bike at the same power now ;) ;D
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Oooo, good work!
You need to do another lap on a comparable bike at the same power now ;) ;D
I have about 300 rides here. And never been above 33 km/h in the 4 years I live here, including my 2022 Aeroad with GP5K TT tires and more power (same PM).
I have a Gibli aero sensor to do a proper comparison one day, but that will be quite some work to do it properly.
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Not sure if it was the bike, the tires or the wheels,
Or just going narrow width of the hb (or the ospw 😉), but it certainly wasn’t me.
Anyway 35 km/h+ average with 207 watts is not something I have seen before on any of my other bikes, including my Aeroad.
https://strava.app.link/QXoKf1kbw4b
We need more people riding the VRT to provide real world experience. I didn't spend a lot of time in my latest video discussing ride feel because the video was already long enough with the whole wind tunnel stuff. But I going to do a separate video on the topic. The VRT is indeed fast in the real world.
My 15mm setback seatpost from Peter is currently in transit. Super thrilled. I've also been swapping between my Tavelo Arow, ER One, and Scott Foil basically daily to really validate the fact I need that 15mm seatpost from XMCS. Also I have a series of local crit races at the end of this month that would tempt me to give the VRT its true test. But I don't wanna risk crashing basically a "limited edition" AERYS frame ;D
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I have about 300 rides here. And never been above 33 km/h in the 4 years I live here, including my 2022 Aeroad with GP5K TT tires and more power (same PM).
I have a Gibli aero sensor to do a proper comparison one day, but that will be quite some work to do it properly.
You really should use the Gibli if you have one! This sort of observation is in the grey zone. It’s probably a .01 CDA reduction, so it’s likely not just the bike, though it might partially be. Its also too big not to likely be something.
I would guess a conversion of 0.01 of cda is along the lines of 12-15W at 48km/h.
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You really should use the Gibli if you have one! This sort of observation is in the grey zone. It’s probably a .01 CDA reduction, so it’s likely not just the bike, though it might partially be. Its also too big not to likely be something.
I would guess a conversion of 0.01 of cda is along the lines of 12-15W at 48km/h.
Position on the bike, 34cm handlebars already do so much. Even if I get a figure out if the Gibli (don’t worry, I will, just out of curiosity), we shouldn’t be too hung up on it given the variables we can’t make the same on my fleet of bikes.
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I have about 300 rides here. And never been above 33 km/h in the 4 years I live here, including my 2022 Aeroad with GP5K TT tires and more power (same PM).
I have a Gibli aero sensor to do a proper comparison one day, but that will be quite some work to do it properly.
This kind of statement implies that this bike is something special and is fast. Maybe it it is…
Position on the bike, 34cm handlebars already do so much. Even if I get a figure out if the Gibli (don’t worry, I will, just out of curiosity), we shouldn’t be too hung up on it given the variables we can’t make the same on my fleet of bikes.
But then it might be narrower bars? Or rider position? Narrower bars might have a huge impact. IME, like stack height, it’s a bit of a sweetspot optimization. At a certain point there is a huge gain, and then the gains start to drop off. It wouldn’t surprise me if there is even a point where two narrow affects rider control in a way that makes them less aero.
Overall position is an even bigger wildcard. Maybe this bike frame is really freaking slow with a rider on and it’s just a better position making you faster?
At some point, isolating this to the bike or something else is something you have to try and do if you are going to continue to claim that the bike is noticeably faster IRL—especially given you have a financial interest.
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We need more people riding the VRT to provide real world experience. I didn't spend a lot of time in my latest video discussing ride feel because the video was already long enough with the whole wind tunnel stuff. But I going to do a separate video on the topic. The VRT is indeed fast in the real world.
My 15mm setback seatpost from Peter is currently in transit. Super thrilled. I've also been swapping between my Tavelo Arow, ER One, and Scott Foil basically daily to really validate the fact I need that 15mm seatpost from XMCS. Also I have a series of local crit races at the end of this month that would tempt me to give the VRT its true test. But I don't wanna risk crashing basically a "limited edition" AERYS frame ;D
a detailed comparison between the VRT and the ER:One would be very very useful. for european customers (I am one of them), those two frames have almost the exact same price.
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This kind of statement implies that this bike is something special and is fast. Maybe it it is…
But then it might be narrower bars? Or rider position? Narrower bars might have a huge impact. IME, like stack height, it’s a bit of a sweetspot optimization. At a certain point there is a huge gain, and then the gains start to drop off. It wouldn’t surprise me if there is even a point where two narrow affects rider control in a way that makes them less aero.
Overall position is an even bigger wildcard. Maybe this bike frame is really freaking slow with a rider on and it’s just a better position making you faster?
At some point, isolating this to the bike or something else is something you have to try and do if you are going to continue to claim that the bike is noticeably faster IRL—especially given you have a financial interest.
You may recall my post just a few posts above;
Not sure if it was the bike, the tires or the wheels,
Or just going narrow width of the hb (or the ospw 😉), but it certainly wasn’t me.
Anyway 35 km/h+ average with 207 watts is not something I have seen before on any of my other bikes, including my Aeroad.
Is it possibly freaking slow with a rider on it? Possibly, if the SSE hub completed messed up the bike+rider wind tunnel runs.
Meanwhile the standard Cervelo are applying for their Aspero 5.
Cervélo has long been synonymous with aerodynamic performance, and we’ve brought that 30 years of expertise to gravel racing. The new bike is a stunning 37 Watts faster than the outgoing model, and 34 Watts faster than its nearest competitor.
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You may recall my post just a few posts above;
Is it possibly freaking slow with a rider on it? Possibly, if the SSE hub completed messed up the bike+rider wind tunnel runs.
Meanwhile the standard Cervelo are applying for their Aspero 5.
If u want to rely on windtunnel data from SSE. Do that.
Don’t make a claim about real world riding experience with so many potential confounding factors. Don’t imply that the new bike you sell is faster than your Canyon Aeroad if you arent going to measure it. Or maybe it isnt? ::)
Cervelo and others are really careful to not do that or play games like this. Sure they markup headlines, but they always caveat it with the appropriate details. Its marketing, sure, but its honest in the details. Edit: well honest enough not to get them sued…
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If u want to rely on windtunnel data from SSE. Do that.
Don’t make a claim about real world riding experience with so many potential confounding factors. Don’t imply that the new bike you sell is faster than your Canyon Aeroad if you arent going to measure it. Or maybe it isnt? ::)
Cervelo and others are really careful to not do that or play games like this. Sure they markup headlines, but they always caveat it with the appropriate details. Its marketing, sure, but its honest in the details. Edit: well honest enough not to get them sued…
Interesting, can you share the appropriate details for the Cervelo claims?
Perhaps I can learn something from how they do it. Always open for feedback.
Cervelo Aspero 5: https://www.cervelo.com/nl-NL/bikes/aspero-5
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I'm not saying the bike is not fast it's clearly as fast as the competitors. But 2km/h is a huge difference that can't be just the bike or the wheels. Maybe you were more motivated to hold a better aero position on the VRT vs the others.
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Everyone knows a new bike will make you faster. It's basic science. 8)
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System weight limit: 115kg (VRT)
Is this true?
https://xmcarbonspeed.cc/products/xmcs-vrt-vortex-aero-road-racing-frameset
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I'm not saying the bike is not fast it's clearly as fast as the competitors. But 2km/h is a huge difference that can't be just the bike or the wheels. Maybe you were more motivated to hold a better aero position on the VRT vs the others.
I certainly did not want to imply any exact numbers, hence I did not make any numerical comparison when I shared my ride. 2 km/h frame only is impossible. That would be 30-40 watt at these speeds for just the frame. My point merely was that I feel it is a good platform to build a fast bike.
I have said exactly the same on the wind tunnel test in this topic: I don’t want to get hung up on X watt faster than a S5 with rider, but the takeaway for me is that it simply is a fast platform.
Lesson for me is to not share numbers as people are keen to think I imply certain things. Lesson learned….
I am not very keen on sharing my Gibli testing data, as apparently it is only allowed if I will invest heavily into doing a like for like test, which will require me to - for example - buy a CRW handlebar for my Aeroad to get a 34cm position. If those kind of datasets get scrutinized the way they are, with implications about my ‘financial interest’, a non like-for-like comparison may come across as me trying to give unfair beneficial numbers to the VRT. And then there will be another debate demanding on what I should and shouldn’t do. No interest in that, as this venture is for my fun.
I’ll let others share their experiences with the bike, as frames are now being shipped we should get some soon.
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Interesting, can you share the appropriate details for the Cervelo claims?
Perhaps I can learn something from how they do it. Always open for feedback.
Cervelo Aspero 5: https://www.cervelo.com/nl-NL/bikes/aspero-5
I would rather you didn't take after Cervelo, as I personally think it's shady. But this isn't about numerical transparency; it's about consistency, and Cervelo is incredibly *consistent* about how they present the Aspero 5. They use the data they have to keep making the same claim. The claim below is from their website:
*Áspero-5 is 37 Watts faster than its predecessor, and 34 Watts faster than the nearest competitor. Cervélo has long led the industry in aerodynamics, and we’ve delivered a gravel race bike worthy of that reputation. The aero handlebar and stem are responsible for nearly 6 Watts of that savings on their own.*
They didn't release public data but instead focused on interviews. The talking points are clear.
- It's 37 W @ 48 km/h vs. the old bike. It's always 37w.
- It's a full bike test, and that number includes tires (both RR and aero gains)
- They made no effort to isolate the frame, wheels, or anything. They are literally testing bikes out of the box.
- They do not mention specific configurations, so we can assume they picked one that was most advantageous for them.
- They do make a specific claim about the handlebars.
The press their PM, Maria Benson, consistently features the same caveats. Here are some from Canadian Cycling (picked because of the lack of a paywall, and english language): https://cyclingmagazine.ca/sections/gear-reviews/cervelo-aspero-5-intriguing-features/
*“We didn’t isolate the frames,” Benson says. “A lot of times, we will isolate the frame and say the frame is x watts faster. In this case, we compared how the bike is delivered to the customer and how fast our complete Áspero-5 is compared to our competitors.”*
*“We know that the smooth tire choice may be disruptive,” Benson says. “The reason we decided to go ahead with it is that it is a very good tire option for the types of races that we targeted. But we were also very aware that tires are a very personal choice and very terrain dependent, so we expect that people are going to put tires on that suit whatever course they’re going to be riding. But this configuration was how we could deliver the fastest option possible to the customer.”*
You have SSE data and could do the same thing, easily reaching the same level of consistency without introducing noise into the conversation about other numbers you won't be verifying. "The VRT is a top-level road bike. It's proven to be just as fast in the wind tunnel as bikes that win the biggest races under top pros." You could probably add in stuff about stiffness too, since I think they usually do some deflection numbers in the SSE reports.
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I’ve got one coming, and will be the first in Australia. Pretty special for me, as I was deep in the WhatsApp chat with Peter finessing this bike after I first put it to him as an idea about 8 months ago. Originally proposed making a “lighter” VeloBuild Aerotrace, but it went in different direction.in no way saying I responsible for anything which makes it what it is, but it’s not often you have a bike that has elements you can pin down to a conversation on x date.
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I’ve got one coming, and will be the first in Australia. Pretty special for me, as I was deep in the WhatsApp chat with Peter finessing this bike after I first put it to him as an idea about 8 months ago. Originally proposed making a “lighter” VeloBuild Aerotrace, but it went in different direction.in no way saying I responsible for anything which makes it what it is, but it’s not often you have a bike that has elements you can pin down to a conversation on x date.
The frame is very handsome and will surely perform well, too... unfortunately, these aero frames always have a top tube with little slope, so the exposed seatpost length risks being minimal—and aesthetically unappealing.
Based on my measurements—using a size L/56 frame and a saddle height of 765mm, and assuming an average saddle stack height of 50mm—the exposed seatpost would be just 175mm.
The GRT in size M has a seat tube length of 490mm instead of 540mm... it could be an alternative to the VRT (especially since it also features storage on the down tube), but the geometries differ significantly, so I would expect very different handling on the road.
There hasn't been any further news regarding the "all-round" frame that was unveiled alongside the VRT at the start of this thread... has the project been abandoned?
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I have a size ML of the allrounder frame called APX here at home and will build it up after my annual leave.
Most focus and interest have been on the VRT and GRT until now. I’m sure Peter will share a timeline of the APX.
It’s not forgotten.
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The frame is very handsome and will surely perform well, too... unfortunately, these aero frames always have a top tube with little slope, so the exposed seatpost length risks being minimal—and aesthetically unappealing.
Based on my measurements—using a size L/56 frame and a saddle height of 765mm, and assuming an average saddle stack height of 50mm—the exposed seatpost would be just 175mm.
The GRT in size M has a seat tube length of 490mm instead of 540mm... it could be an alternative to the VRT (especially since it also features storage on the down tube), but the geometries differ significantly, so I would expect very different handling on the road.
There hasn't been any further news regarding the "all-round" frame that was unveiled alongside the VRT at the start of this thread... has the project been abandoned?
I think it’s unlikely at this point. The plans for that frame were developed before the VRT. When the VRT became more of a prospect for Peter his intention was to release them at the same time as a dual offering. But the buzz around the VRT, and the cost of making it, made focusing on that a more attractive proposition to him. There was way more consultation with a variety of people about the VRT, whereas I’m not sure how the “other” race frame had been conceived and developed.
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I have a size ML of the allrounder frame called APX here at home and will build it up after my annual leave.
Most focus and interest have been on the VRT and GRT until now. I’m sure Peter will share a timeline of the APX.
It’s not forgotten.
I’m happy to read this. I’m holding out for the APX.
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I’m thinking if i would buy this or the yishun r033.
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I’m thinking if i would buy this or the yishun r033.
The Yishun R033 does not appear to be available for sale to private individuals, but only B2B (see image).
The Somec Diablo frame appears to be identical (saw it in person yesterday....kit frame-only price is approximately 2.000€ with a "simple" custom paint job.): https://somec.com/collezione/strada_carbonio_monoscocca/diablo/
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Has there been any update on the brand/logo going forward? Is the intention to use the font on the GT frame or is that just a placeholder for now?
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Has there been any update on the brand/logo going forward? Is the intention to use the font on the GT frame or is that just a placeholder for now?
There is a XMCS Logo on one of the vrt frames pictured on the xmcs website. Looks decent to me.
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@Requiem84-can you give us the standover height measurement for each sise frame with a 35mm tyre?
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Yup I just remembered the other logo mock up and was wondering if they'd go ahead with it. The post seems to suggest that another name might also be used.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DZcPI4aElGj/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
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@Requiem84-can you give us the standover height measurement for each sise frame with a 35mm tyre?
You want to buy a full range of frame sizes? 😉.
I can measure my L. The other sizes I know exactly as much as all of you. I just have the geo table, nothing more.
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Yup I just remembered the other logo mock up and was wondering if they'd go ahead with it. The post seems to suggest that another name might also be used.
https://www.instagram.com/p/DZcPI4aElGj/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link
XMCS for now. We are talking about something similar to Aerys, but IF we find something suitable that is not trademarked, it will take at least 6-9 months to be able to use it. You log the trademark application in EUIPO, and then have to wait a fixed period for others to object to your application. Possibly because they feel there is too much similarity etc. it’s pretty damn complicated.
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You want to buy a full range of frame sizes? 😉.
I can measure my L. The other sizes I know exactly as much as all of you. I just have the geo table, nothing more.
😀
My bike fitter says I can fit m or possibly L and suggests s/o should determine choice. 174cm tall but short legs.
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😀
My bike fitter says I can fit m or possibly L and suggests s/o should determine choice. 174cm tall but short legs.
I’ll measure it for you. Out of curiosity, why is s/o determining? I rarely find myself standing straight with both feet flat on the ground? Usually I am one foot off and them s/o doesn’t matter much?
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Didn’t I say I have short legs? :) Fine on a sloping top tube but where horizontal , like on my track bike in a 54, tube to nuts can be a bit close. I like to be able to stop and stand over the bike rather than lean them it to the side.
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Didn’t I say I have short legs? :) Fine on a sloping top tube but where horizontal , like on my track bike in a 54, tube to nuts can be a bit close. I like to be able to stop and stand over the bike rather than lean them it to the side.
Happy to be corrected but believe the standover height is on the XMCS website, I think it's the Chinese text.
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XMCS for now. We are talking about something similar to Aerys, but IF we find something suitable that is not trademarked, it will take at least 6-9 months to be able to use it. You log the trademark application in EUIPO, and then have to wait a fixed period for others to object to your application. Possibly because they feel there is too much similarity etc. it’s pretty damn complicated.
Name it "Aeras" (wind in Greek)
Although even simple words might be trademarked (see Apple)
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Won’t work, will be phonetically objected by a competitor :(.
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XMCS for now. We are talking about something similar to Aerys, but IF we find something suitable that is not trademarked, it will take at least 6-9 months to be able to use it. You log the trademark application in EUIPO, and then have to wait a fixed period for others to object to your application. Possibly because they feel there is too much similarity etc. it’s pretty damn complicated.
I think that the XMCS logo/brand is appealing and distinctive.
"Aerys" (or something similar), in my opinion, is too evocative of the aerodynamic characteristics of the VRT model.
If you are looking for a brand identity for your "premium" range of frames, I would suggest something different, something that evokes the know-how behind the creation of the entire premium lineup, rather than the qualities of a single specific frame.
I’d think of something like S-Works or X-Lab, just to give a few examples.... ;)
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I know all the heat is on the Aero frameset but is there any information on the all around frameset? Did anybody test it?
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Is handlebar only option available?
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Is it possible to use the riser handlebar with a Cannondale Supersix Evo? Does XMCS provide an adapter for this?
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Is it possible to use the riser handlebar with a Cannondale Supersix Evo? Does XMCS provide an adapter for this?
I've already thought about that, too. As far as I know, it's the FSA ACR standard, so an FSA adapter should fit. The only challenge will be the Ahead cap or the bolt/thread for the Delta fork.
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The aero bike I’d like.
(I took the liberty of making a few modifications to the VRT's top tube)
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The aero bike I’d like.
(I took the liberty of making a few modifications to the VRT's top tube)
if the only change is the horizontal top tube:
- more seatpost = more comfort.
- more seatpost / sloping top tube = dramatically more scenarios where you can fit short people on a bike, comfortably.
Edit: the VRT is on the website now.
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if the only change is the horizontal top tube:
- more seatpost = more comfort.
- more seatpost / sloping top tube = dramatically more scenarios where you can fit short people on a bike, comfortably.
I would add:
- more seatpost = better aesthetics ;D
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Maybe you can go with endurance frame + aero tubings like XMCS GT?
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Maybe you can go with endurance frame + aero tubings like XMCS GT?
The XMCS GT has a completely different design than the VRT.
The LCR018-D frame has aero design and greater sloping but, despite its appearance, its geometry is closer to a gravel frame than an aero road frame... I’m concerned it might feel less responsive and less rewarding to ride.
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The XMCS GT has a completely different design than the VRT.
The LCR018-D frame has aero design and greater sloping but, despite its appearance, its geometry is closer to a gravel frame than an aero road frame... I’m concerned it might feel less responsive and less rewarding to ride.
Thing is, you can check the LCR018D thread and read the general consensus there with 175 pages and still increasing.
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Thing is, you can check the LCR018D thread and read the general consensus there with 175 pages and still increasing.
I'm also following the discussion on the LCR018-D, but so far I haven't seen many reviews that address this particular aspect.
Thanks anyway. ;)
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L, 75cm.
Hi, if it’s not too much trouble, could I ask you to take a few measurements (see attached image)?
I’m trying to figure out how much seatpost exposure I’d have with the VRT in size L, and what the visual result would be.
You mentioned a saddle height of 750mm, and judging by this photo, it looks pretty good (even though the frame has minimal sloping)... though I assume the saddle is thin (40–45mm), which could affect the final look.
Do the wheels in the photo have a 58mm profile?
Thanks.
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65mm wheels. Can take some measurements when I’m back home in the week of 21th. Ping me if I forget.
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I wonder if there are any people that have received the first frames already and could share their first impressions about the ride feel/ quality of the frame?
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Hello, are there any updates regarding:
- UCI approval?
- brand name on frame? Will it stay as xmcs or will it change once more?
- possible changes to the frame due to feedback from patty? (as he mentioned in one of his videos)
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As for tire clearance, the P Zero SL R now mounted, measure 31.5mm and we seem to have about 8mm+ clearance at the rear. So 38mm WAM may fit - TBC after Eurobike. I think it will look a lot better, as it will close the gap to the DT a bit.
Is there an update around this? 31.5+8+8 = 47.5 = 39.5+4+4. That's the rear. That means that you can (just) run a GP5000 in 35C. Can we please get a formal confirmation of that?
And at the fork, is it safe to assume that we can also fit 40mm WAM?
Method: i found that caliper for inflated tyre + allen key of 3-4-5mm between tyre and chainstay is the easiest way to measure stuff with enough precision. (my LTK 268 measures 34.4mm + 4mm on either side, at the back. Plenty of space at the front. So with enough optimism it could pass as a 35C frame (as in 35mm, strictly just 35mm)).
Last: front derailleuyr clearance question. I dont do 1x.
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Is there an update around this? 31.5+8+8 = 47.5 = 39.5+4+4. That's the rear. That means that you can (just) run a GP5000 in 35C. Can we please get a formal confirmation of that?
And at the fork, is it safe to assume that we can also fit 40mm WAM?
Method: i found that caliper for inflated tyre + allen key of 3-4-5mm between tyre and chainstay is the easiest way to measure stuff with enough precision. (my LTK 268 measures 34.4mm + 4mm on either side, at the back. Plenty of space at the front. So with enough optimism it could pass as a 35C frame (as in 35mm, strictly just 35mm)).
Last: front derailleuyr clearance question. I dont do 1x.
https://youtu.be/tApX8P_7Pp0?si=L6olwCNktM5nMfzy&t=232 Patrick Lino has a video with 32mm gp5000s on the xmcs 26/34 measuring 34.5mm on the rear with what appears to be around 5mm or so of clearance from a shimano FD
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https://youtu.be/tApX8P_7Pp0?si=L6olwCNktM5nMfzy&t=232 Patrick Lino has a video with 32mm gp5000s on the xmcs 26/34 measuring 34.5mm on the rear with what appears to be around 5mm or so of clearance from a shimano FD
Thanks. On Patrick's video, it's 34.5+6+6 is 38.5+4+4. Consistent with previous measurement that concluded 39.5+4+4.
Could be an argument in favour of carbon spokes, as they're supposed to make stiffer wheels less likely to rub under load if one's pushing the max clearance. Wheels that measure almost 40mm wide might give enough comfort to run carbon spokes for most people, idk.
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The new Conti GP5K 35mm measures 37mm on the XMCS 26/34. I’ve got it on my Quick Pro with a DA front mech and there is passable clearance. I’ve put down 400km on this setup with no issues.
The VRT will be the same, if not with even more clearance.
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The P Zero SLR 28c measure 31.7mm on the 26-33 rims. An allen key of 8mm just fits between chain stay and tire. 8.5mm does not fit without rubbing. So 8mm it is with a +-32mm WAM tires.
Recaculating this:
35mm WAM => 6.5mm clearance
38mm WAM => 5.0mm clearance
40mm WAM => 4.0mm clearance.
42mm WAM => 3.0mm clearance
44mm WAM => 2.0mm clearance
A 40c tire (e.g Caracal Race) will blow up to 42-44 WAM on a 26i rim. That will not be a good idea. A 35c, WAM 38 will work OK imo.
Derailler space for 2x can’t replicate yet (can next month as we have a 2x GT customer build coming in. I did measure the space between the derailler mounting holes and the tire: about 3cm. Feels to me like there will be room for 2x with 38WAM.
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The P Zero SLR 28c measure 31.7mm on the 26-33 rims. An allen key of 8mm just fits between chain stay and tire. 8.5mm does not fit without rubbing. So 8mm it is with a +-32mm WAM tires.
Recaculating this:
35mm WAM => 6.5mm clearance
38mm WAM => 5.0mm clearance
40mm WAM => 4.0mm clearance.
42mm WAM => 3.0mm clearance
44mm WAM => 2.0mm clearance
A 40c tire (e.g Caracal Race) will blow up to 42-44 WAM on a 26i rim. That will not be a good idea. A 35c, WAM 38 will work OK imo.
Derailler space for 2x can’t replicate yet (can next month as we have a 2x GT customer build coming in. I did measure the space between the derailler mounting holes and the tire: about 3cm. Feels to me like there will be room for 2x with 38WAM.
Good info.
I would note, that for bigger tyres it will probably be a bit less room as written, as larger tyres are not only wider, but also bigger/deeper, so that outer end of tyre of a bit closer to the BB and probably chainstay goes inwards a bit.
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The new Conti GP5K 35mm measures 37mm on the XMCS 26/34. I’ve got it on my Quick Pro with a DA front mech and there is passable clearance. I’ve put down 400km on this setup with no issues.
The VRT will be the same, if not with even more clearance.
Thanks I've been thinking of trying that.
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The P Zero SLR 28c measure 31.7mm on the 26-33 rims. An allen key of 8mm just fits between chain stay and tire. 8.5mm does not fit without rubbing. So 8mm it is with a +-32mm WAM tires.
Recaculating this:
35mm WAM => 6.5mm clearance
38mm WAM => 5.0mm clearance
40mm WAM => 4.0mm clearance.
42mm WAM => 3.0mm clearance
44mm WAM => 2.0mm clearance
A 40c tire (e.g Caracal Race) will blow up to 42-44 WAM on a 26i rim. That will not be a good idea. A 35c, WAM 38 will work OK imo.
Derailler space for 2x can’t replicate yet (can next month as we have a 2x GT customer build coming in. I did measure the space between the derailler mounting holes and the tire: about 3cm. Feels to me like there will be room for 2x with 38WAM.
Looking forward to the Aero testing you teased on instagram! How will you be publishing the results?
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The VRT Cda was 0.281 in a normal slightly arms bend hoods position that I can hold all day and 0.239 in full aero position. GRT was 0.301 with same wheels and tires.
I don’t intend to publicize anything yet until I have done much more tests in different conditions and in different configurations.
Anyone is welcome to come over, take the bikes for a day and do testing himself. It’s pretty laborious.
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Hi, if it’s not too much trouble, could I ask you to take a few measurements (see attached image)?
I’m trying to figure out how much seatpost exposure I’d have with the VRT in size L, and what the visual result would be.
You mentioned a saddle height of 750mm, and judging by this photo, it looks pretty good (even though the frame has minimal sloping)... though I assume the saddle is thin (40–45mm), which could affect the final look.
Do the wheels in the photo have a 58mm profile?
Thanks.
@Requiem84 a reminder for you. ;)
Thank you.
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Hi, if it’s not too much trouble, could I ask you to take a few measurements (see attached image)?
I’m trying to figure out how much seatpost exposure I’d have with the VRT in size L, and what the visual result would be.
You mentioned a saddle height of 750mm, and judging by this photo, it looks pretty good (even though the frame has minimal sloping)... though I assume the saddle is thin (40–45mm), which could affect the final look.
Do the wheels in the photo have a 58mm profile?
Thanks.
Measured it in detail for you:
BB -> Saddle 74.0
Top tube saddle:20.5
Floor to saddle: 99.8
Floor to tops: 92.0
Saddle height drop to tops: 9.0
Hoods/shifters are level, so same as above.
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Measured it in detail for you:
BB -> Saddle 74.0
Top tube saddle:20.5
Floor to saddle: 99.8
Floor to tops: 92.0
Saddle height drop to tops: 9.0
Hoods/shifters are level, so same as above.
Thanks for the measurements, by the way!
I do have a few questions about the measurements you took, though:
1) The VRT (size L) has a seat tube (ST) of 540mm, so:
BB-to-saddle is 740mm - ST 540mm = 200mm (top tube to saddle).
I assume, then, that the distance from the top tube to the saddle rails is 160-165mm... can you confirm?
2) You mentioned a 90mm saddle-to-handlebar drop, but: saddle height (998mm) - floor-to-bar-tops (920mm) = 78mm....I don't quite follow that.
Thanks again!
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Has there been any update on UCI approval/how the manufacturing is going?
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Has there been any update on UCI approval/how the manufacturing is going?
The last update I received regarding uci approval is that it will still take a couple of weeks until final approval. UCI processes take longer than expected…
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I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but where is the DI2 battery mount located on this frame?
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I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere, but where is the DI2 battery mount located on this frame?
It comes with a battery mount to place inside of the seatpost.
And speaking of seatpost, I actually had to cut mine down because I couldn't get it low it enough without the battery hitting the inside of the seat stays. I'm 6 feet tall / 183cm.
Peter sent me the new 15mm setback post as well. And I also had to cut that down to size too.
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I apologize if I’ve missed it, but have there been any updates on the APX?
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https://ccache.cc/products/ccache-x-carbon-speed-vrt-frameset-alpine-white?pr_prod_strat=collection_fallback&pr_rec_id=2a2c2f78b&pr_rec_pid=9407966019800&pr_ref_pid=9408197492952&pr_seq=uniform
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The aero bike I’d like.
(I took the liberty of making a few modifications to the VRT's top tube)
OT
Finally, some aero/sloping alternatives to the Cervélo S5... although the prices are higher than the XMCS (the handlebar is included in the frameset price).
Seka ExAero RDC:
https://ccache.cc/products/seka-exaero-road-rdc-frameset-mercury-limited-edition?pr_prod_strat=collection_fallback&pr_rec_id=2f999ad03&pr_rec_pid=9408197591256&pr_ref_pid=9408197689560&pr_seq=uniform
Seka ExAero Road (no Wind Eye):
https://ccache.cc/products/seka-exaero-road-frameset-tempo
End OT
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Tempted for this frame.
But what is a bit sketchy is that full aero/wind tunnel report is not available online, and will not be available as per my request. This gives me the suspicion there is something to hide inside the full report or they to "cherry-picking" at the least.
Has someone seen the full report?
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Jesse Coyle from the Nero show got the full report.
He summarized it well in their episode on the VRT, noting that it was quite a complicated report to wade through and to understand.
Starting a the 7minute mark.
https://youtu.be/wM52UEleG7Y?is=gIXdatqZNhSwyMc9
Do note: not a single brand shares the full direct wind tunnel report. They all get a similar report, but then process it in a white paper. They can add / take out stuff in their white paper as they see fit.
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The Nero Show asked me to get permission from Peter for me to send them the full report.
They actually covered it quite well and fairly.
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I started compiling all the components for my new build and I am about to pull the trigger on the VRT frame. Apart from Patty's video, are there other people on this forum that have the frame built up and could comment about the ride feel / impressions of the frame? Would be greatly appreciated.
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are there any real life pictures available of the new proposed colorways of the VRT on the carbonspeed website? in particular option 9 and 10? are these colours limited or darker green possible?
There's no explanation in english and i can not seem to 100% accurately let it translate from the image. seems to be hand-brushed/hand-painted
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are there any real life pictures available of the new proposed colorways of the VRT on the carbonspeed website? in particular option 9 and 10? are these colours limited or darker green possible?
There's no explanation in english and i can not seem to 100% accurately let it translate from the image. seems to be hand-brushed/hand-painted
Looking at the available color schemes for the VRT model, it seems they’ve opted for the new XMCS logo that @Requiem84 had already predicted... in my opinion, the one seen on the black-and-white version posted on their site looks much better.
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Looking at the available color schemes for the VRT model, it seems they’ve opted for the new XMCS logo that @Requiem84 had already predicted... in my opinion, the one seen on the black-and-white version posted on their site looks much better.
AFAIK, you can choose the logo font and color (or choose to have no logo) on all colors when you order anyway, the one in the color proposal is just for illustration purposes
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You can choose the one from the black and white one too (the half cut logo), or the big XMCS font.
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Looking at the available color schemes for the VRT model, it seems they’ve opted for the new XMCS logo that @Requiem84 had already predicted... in my opinion, the one seen on the black-and-white version posted on their site looks much better.
Here is what I did to that base scheme.
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Is there any body over 6 feet riding an XL having been on a frame with 73 degree seat tube angle? Wondering what the 401 reach and forward geo does to the position and how much weight is tipped onto the hands as a result with a 74 degree ST.
398 reach is too long so surely 401 would be worse, but the hips sit closer to the bars so it's difficult to figure out from online charts.
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Get a pre order bike fit and give them the bike measurements? Not much point asking here unless someone has same femur and torso and arm length measurements and identical flexibility.
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Get a pre order bike fit and give them the bike measurements? Not much point asking here unless someone has same femur and torso and arm length measurements and identical flexibility.
Agree. As I always say regarding bike fits, 2 180cm rider is very different. One might need a size 560 and another might need a size 580
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This just rocked up. I won’t likely have a chance to get it built up until the weekend, but first impressions are very very positive:
- Nothing needs facing, and the threads in the BB shell are perfect and don’t need a reap
- Overall the frame feels incredibly robust. Pinching the downtube as hard as I can, there’s no flex or depression (unlike an ER:One). This may not ultimately mean anything as medial stiffness is not what makes a frame stiff, but it does inspire confidence in its durability (unlike the ER:One, which cracked itself)
- Paint and decals are very well done and look premium
- I also got Peter’s riser bars and these are as stiff as they come. The quality of the build on them is also very high.
If I wasn’t on new Dad duty every night I’d have this thing built yesterday.
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That looks fantastic!
I'm debating on getting one now (UK summer is more or less over) or waiting until early 2027.
That's the colour I'd be going for if I don't go for RTP.
Can't wait to see this built up, well done.
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This just rocked up. I won’t likely have a chance to get it built up until the weekend, but first impressions are very very positive:
- Nothing needs facing, and the threads in the BB shell are perfect and don’t need a reap
- Overall the frame feels incredibly robust. Pinching the downtube as hard as I can, there’s no flex or depression (unlike an ER:One). This may not ultimately mean anything as medial stiffness is not what makes a frame stiff, but it does inspire confidence in its durability (unlike the ER:One, which cracked itself)
- Paint and decals are very well done and look premium
- I also got Peter’s riser bars and these are as stiff as they come. The quality of the build on them is also very high.
If I wasn’t on new Dad duty every night I’d have this thing built yesterday.
Do you mind sharing the reason why the QuickPro cracked? XMCS downtube does not flex as much as the QuickPro because it has an internal ridge to make it torsionally stiffer and more robust. Explained here by Hambini https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cZ6GjRGhaFg
I would have happily purchased the XMCS instead of the ER:One, but in terms of aesthetics there's something in the VRT that I don't like. It is not something specific, it is more something like the overall proportions of tube shapes, ratios and angles (but it is a highly subjective opinion)
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Do you mind sharing the reason why the QuickPro cracked? XMCS downtube does not flex as much as the QuickPro because it has an internal ridge to make it torsionally stiffer and more robust. Explained here by Hambini https://www.youtube.com/shorts/cZ6GjRGhaFg
I would have happily purchased the XMCS instead of the ER:One, but in terms of aesthetics there's something in the VRT that I don't like. It is not something specific, it is more something like the overall proportions of tube shapes, ratios and angles (but it is a highly subjective opinion)
I’m not sure what the reason for the crack was - it certainly wasn’t anything I had done that I shouldn’t reasonably be able to do on a carbon bike. It wasn’t crashed, and was fairly new. It cracked on the underside of the bottom bracket shell, running up to one of the seat stays. I’ve seen at least 2 others online that have cracked in that same place, and that might lead me to suspect there is something in the design, layup or general structure of the frame that is in issue. Of course, they could also just have been a bad batch.
I wouldn’t worry too much, especially if you bought it new. I got mine from Panda Podium. They are a real decent bunch there and did everything they could to ensure Quick sent out a new one.
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If have no issues with my ER:One frame and I am sitting on 100 kg.
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Is there any body over 6 feet riding an XL having been on a frame with 73 degree seat tube angle? Wondering what the 401 reach and forward geo does to the position and how much weight is tipped onto the hands as a result with a 74 degree ST.
398 reach is too long so surely 401 would be worse, but the hips sit closer to the bars so it's difficult to figure out from online charts.
I'm 6'1 and currently riding a VB-R-177 which is a XL frame with 73 degree seat tube angle. It has a 403mm reach and a few weeks ago I went from a 20mm offset to a 0mm offset seatpost. I had to tweak quite a bit of things to make it comfortable again. I for sure had to push my cleats further back and change the horizontal seat angle and overall seatpost hight a bit.
Right now I'm more comfortable than before but I definitely think the higher stack + aero riser will make my position event more comfy. According to my bike fitter I'm quite flexible but I also notice that I'm more prone to sores than before. Turning 37 this month and bought my current frame when I was 32.