Chinertown
Chinese Carbon Road Bikes => Road Bike Frames, Wheels & Components => Topic started by: patliean1 on October 23, 2024, 08:29:27 AM
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https://www.seraphbikes.com/Superlight-Disc-Road-Bike-Frame-TT-X68-BSA-Bottom-Bracket-Max-Tire-70028C-With-Integrated-Handlebar-p5836624.html (https://www.seraphbikes.com/Superlight-Disc-Road-Bike-Frame-TT-X68-BSA-Bottom-Bracket-Max-Tire-70028C-With-Integrated-Handlebar-p5836624.html)
A far better alternative than buying a bottom bracket exploding fake SL8 in my opinion. Identical geometry of course. Maybe I should get one to compare to my actual Tarmac SL8
Seraph is the "brand" counterpart to Tantan if I'm not mistaken...
EDIT: Even the geometry chart is using a photo of a frame with an SL7 Tarmac stem and spacers ;D
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And who says this is not the same production? Just another distribution :s
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I've built two road frames up from TanTan/Seraph. Both were loosely inspired off western brands (Scott Foil and Trek Madone) but not identical in geometry. Very solid given the price. I also a TanTan/Tideace GR201 gravel frame on order.
This particular X-68 is conflicting. TanTan is a legitimate brand/factory/whatever and they make reputable products. This is this the first time I've seen them release a product to be straight up clone. Not similar in design or "inspired" like their X-34 and X-38. Actual one to one. From the saddle clamp to the Roval handlebars.
I just hope these frames aren't being supplied to the overwhelming number of fake sellers on AliX
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On an older counterfeit frame I received documents with a reference to TFSA JH model. Was an SL7, was a good frame but I really don't know what brand to trust anymore.
Maybe they just bought those and repainted them.
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Don’t discard the possibility that big western brand stuck with too much inventory move their overstock through back channels rather than discount heavily under their name which would not be good for their high end and exclusive image…
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28C only with that huge front fork? xD
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I've built two road frames up from TanTan/Seraph. Both were loosely inspired off western brands (Scott Foil and Trek Madone) but not identical in geometry. Very solid given the price. I also a TanTan/Tideace GR201 gravel frame on order.
This particular X-68 is conflicting. TanTan is a legitimate brand/factory/whatever and they make reputable products. This is this the first time I've seen them release a product to be straight up clone. Not similar in design or "inspired" like their X-34 and X-38. Actual one to one. From the saddle clamp to the Roval handlebars.
I just hope these frames aren't being supplied to the overwhelming number of fake sellers on AliX
Is it the same feeling as when Velobuild made their 218/Dogma F frame?
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This frame being offered by Tantan is an unfortunate consequence of the high demand and interest in counterfeits. A few sellers, like Airwolf, have moved from open molds to mostly selling copies of other frames. I have no idea if these are better quality than other copies, but I doubt it. Afterall, where does the money spent go? Probably not into doing actual engineering work.
Don’t discard the possibility that big western brand stuck with too much inventory move their overstock through back channels rather than discount heavily under their name which would not be good for their high end and exclusive image…
LOL at them being overstock from a Western brand. This doesn't happen unless that Western brand sells a catalog frame. It does happen for open molds or for molds where someone has bought exclusivity for several years but doesn't own the design. That is not the case for Cervelo, Specialized, Factor, and Pinarello, which are also not using these factories.
There are also visible differences between this frame and legit SL8 if you look close enough.
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Is it the same feeling as when Velobuild made their 218/Dogma F frame?
I've also built up a VB-168 and VB-268 from Velobuild. Both are essentially SL7 clones. Each frame was solid, with the 268 being stiffer. Neither frames ride anything like the Tarmac and this quickly becomes apparent over bad pavement.
With that said, I'd say TanTan makes more robust frames than Velobuild's offerings. So on paper this new X-68 should ride more similar to the SL8 than the VB-268 does the SL7.
However, I just don't believe TanTan/Seraph are actually manufacturing these new frames. I suspect as @Ludo said TanTan might just be playing broker/agent here. The real question is where is this overstock coming from...
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Yeah, that frame looks interesting, but only 28 mm clearance pretty much makes it a no go for me. But maybe this is a conservative estimate? If 30 mm would fit well, I guess it would be acceptable. Anyone got it and can report?
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It takes years to build a reputation and minutes to destroy it.
I guess tantan being on the market for so long wants to keep their reputation. Selling bad/other factories stuff could harm much more than any short term benefit
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The frame is also available on tantan's website: http://tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=1160
Certainly interesting, not super sure how I feel about but I do like the look of the SL8 and wouldn't mind picking this frame up
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I just noticed that there is a matching decals kit for Redbull Bora on Speedy Decals. Hmm...
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I mean Seraph/Tantan are also selling fake Ostro Vam's pretty much. Aside from the seatpost it's literally a Factor.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005007911929673.html?pdp_npi=4%40dis%21CAD%21C%24%20676.24%21C%24%20540.99%21%21%21478.14%21382.51%21%402101c59817297233606821177eef77%2112000042815179356%21sh%21CA%213856195575%21X&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_allItems_or_groupList.new_all_items_2007599420335.1005007911929673
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Been disappointed by claimed weights too many times. I will be shocked if this comes in under 900g unpainted. Not hard to get a 9xx frame, I just got a Cervelo R5 "inspired" Tantan disc frame that came in around 950g with chameleon paint. Hey guys a 2lb plastic bike frame is still pretty impressive lol. Im a weight weenie but theres limits
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There is no way this is only 28c clearance. My last frame from TanTan said 28c and I fit 32c. They seem to be very conservative with measurements for some reason.
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literally a fake SL8 frame, no wonder my eps moulded SL8 will be ready soon.
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Guys, what do you think about only being able to mount wireless groups? Couldn't you put on a mechanical 105?
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Guys, what do you think about only being able to mount wireless groups? Couldn't you put on a mechanical 105?
Unless you want to drill holes the information displayed is quite straighforward :)
Even the pics don't show any holes. And I think that their definition of wireless doesn't encompass Shimano di2 once even these need holes.
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Guys, what do you think about only being able to mount wireless groups? Couldn't you put on a mechanical 105?
There are no cable exit holes, so only wireless I guess...
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There are no cable exit holes, so only wireless I guess...
I only see an underside battery cable hole for the RD and it looks like the battery cable for the FD is behind the front hanger. So definitely electronic only.
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I't like to see better pics of the headset-spacers. If these look clean, I'll be buying this. Too bad it looks like a copy, but an aero-ish leightweight bike that is kinda goodlooking is what I'm looking for. It's this or the Velobuild 268. The TanTan might be better.
Also interesting is the option to buy this with the gravel bike 201 from TanTan and only pay shipping once :)
Now I need to wheelsets :) Leighweight road for 28c tires and a wide gravel wheelset (both from one seller). Guess Elite is the way to go :)
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Also interesting is the option to buy this with the gravel bike 201 from TanTan and only pay shipping once :)
fingers crossed but i guess this will not happen. Orderd two wheelsets and they wanted shipping for both
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Some details, like the bottom bracket, look very much like the one i got from yohobike. Hopefully the exploding BB is a individual case. So far no problems with mine, and i can put down some serious numbers above 1000w .
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Some details, like the bottom bracket, look very much like the one i got from yohobike. Hopefully the exploding BB is a individual case. So far no problems with mine, and i can put down some serious numbers above 1000w .
Let's hope it's not the same frame. I've hammered mine multiple times 1300w + to but I'm mostly the leadout guy. 20s 1000w isn't rare but should be able to handle these kinds of stress
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Let's hope it's not the same frame. I've hammered mine multiple times 1300w + to but I'm mostly the leadout guy. 20s 1000w isn't rare but should be able to handle these kinds of stress
Even if you were cranking high watts I would still presume a threaded BB could handle the stress. It seems the BB threads weren't bonded correctly leading to eventual failure. Perhaps pressfit BBs aren't so bad, especially if using a threaded PF.
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I like the specs and such etc, but I really don't like how it's a blatant copy paste. If it were just inspired with notable differences I might be interested, but riding such a blatant counterfeit is just too wrong to me.
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Yeah, that is also my issue with the frame. I don't mind identical geometry, but they shouldn't have gone for a one-to-one copy aesthetically.
FYI, Rose sent me photos of the clearance in the back with 28 mm tires. Looks like there's loads of clearance, as expected. No photo of the fork, but I expect lots of clearance there as well. After all it looks exactly like the SL8...
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$629 frame + $150 shipping + $31 PayPal convenience fee = $810 And that doesn't include custom paint which is probably another $70. So probably $900 USD total
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't super intrigued about getting the frameset, slapping on some decals, and comparing it to my SL8. But $900 is a lot to gamble on. Especially when previous homage-type frames were decent for the price but missed the mark when comparing to their western brand counter-parts. A comparison probably unfair to make anyway.
Even if I convinced TanTan to send me a frame for review, they told me they aren't promoting this frame. For obvious reasons.
I still want one because....budget frames is life.
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I still want one because....budget frames is life.
strange, 2 days ago it cost 589$, that I had put in the cart. now 629$.
it's about 120$ more than the velobuild 268 in my pole position.
I'm undecided
anyway PAT we vote for you, do the comparison
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strange, 2 days ago it cost 589$, that I had put in the cart. now 629$.
it's about 120$ more than the velobuild 268 in my pole position.
I'm undecided
anyway PAT we vote for you, do the comparison
There are a lot of price increases before the 11-11 sale. Part of the strategy to make you believe you are getting a better sale price during the sale.
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I'm waiting for the BF ;D
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They also sent me another pic of the fork (didn't even ask for it) with 28 mm tires installed. Good clearance for wider tires as well as far as I can tell.
Still not sure if I should go for it. I really want a lightweight-ish frame though and the geometry is just spot on...
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Still not sure if I should go for it. I really want a lightweight-ish frame though and the geometry is just spot on...
It depends I guess.... If you always ride alone it could be OK, but if you do group rides, there will definitely be some real SL8's and it will be a little (or a lot) embarrassing to ride a fake...
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It depends I guess.... If you always ride alone it could be OK, but if you do group rides, there will definitely be some real SL8's and it will be a little (or a lot) embarrassing to ride a fake...
Unless of course you put no specialialized/SL8 logo's on the fake bike and beat them at every KOM on your bike that's only 1/10th of the price of theirs :)
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$629 frame + $150 shipping + $31 PayPal convenience fee = $810 And that doesn't include custom paint which is probably another $70. So probably $900 USD total
I'd be lying if I said I wasn't super intrigued about getting the frameset, slapping on some decals, and comparing it to my SL8. But $900 is a lot to gamble on. Especially when previous homage-type frames were decent for the price but missed the mark when comparing to their western brand counter-parts. A comparison probably unfair to make anyway.
Even if I convinced TanTan to send me a frame for review, they told me they aren't promoting this frame. For obvious reasons.
I still want one because....budget frames is life.
I would not get one if I already had an SL8. I am currently building an R5 clone.... I have no idea how an R5 rides so I won't know what I'm missing.
Unless of course you put no specialialized/SL8 logo's on the fake bike and beat them at every KOM on your bike that's only 1/10th of the price of theirs :)
You could do that with pretty much any China brand bike though, without the silliness of trying to pass off a counterfeit frame as real.
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Of course I wouldn't put a fake S-Works logo on it, that would be extremely silly... I think it's fine to see such a frame as heavily inspired by the original, but standing on its own. It's not an exact replica, after all (otherwise we wouldn't be talking about tire clearance etc.).
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Fuck you mean it's not an exact replica? I bet that shit was 3d scanned, imported to cad and went straight to mold design
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Fuck you mean it's not an exact replica? I bet that shit was 3d scanned, imported to cad and went straight to mold design
I guess you're right... I just want to spin it positively perhaps. ::)
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C'mon Mr.Lino, just hurry up and order one so you can tell us how it compares to a real SL8...
I bet it's just gnawing away at you. Pretty soon you won't be able to think about anything else ;D
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T-Werks labels in the Specialized font would be fun and cheeky.
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I still vote for ASS-WORKS, but i'm wired weird.
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I knew someone with a yellow Specialized in the '90s that removed the i and the z from the down tube labels and added Short Bus model labels.
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C'mon Mr.Lino, just hurry up and order one so you can tell us how it compares to a real SL8...
I bet it's just gnawing away at you. Pretty soon you won't be able to think about anything else ;D
What it be douchey of me to start a GoFundMe to raise funds? Everyone donates $15 haha
My monthly YouTube revenue and OnlyFan accounts aren't as lucrative as it seems...
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I would reach out to Tantan to see if they'll send you a frame....
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I would reach out to Tantan to see if they'll send you a frame....
It is best to order the frame as an anonymous in order to don't have a "special" QC because of the notoriety.
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What it be douchey of me to start a GoFundMe to raise funds? Everyone donates $15 haha
My monthly YouTube revenue and OnlyFan accounts aren't as lucrative as it seems...
With 3500 curious hits on this thread I don't think it's actually a bad shout, I'd be in for fifteen:-)
You could raffle the frame off after full testing and donate to charity.... Everyone wins!
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What it be douchey of me to start a GoFundMe to raise funds? Everyone donates $15 haha
My monthly YouTube revenue and OnlyFan accounts aren't as lucrative as it seems...
You should try, I would donate for sure :)
Maybe that would be even a new business model, if people want to see a review for a potential purchase, they might consider this an insurance :)
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You could raffle the frame off after full testing and donate to charity.... Everyone wins!
I really like this idea. Test for a couple of months, and then have the Chinertown moderators randomly select a member to receive the frame afterwards. It's a Festivus miracle!
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I really like this idea. Test for a couple of months, and then have the Chinertown moderators randomly select a member to receive the frame afterwards. It's a Festivus miracle!
Just need the feats of strength to make it feel complete
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For the terminal use of the frame, I'd vote for a dystopian thing where some child molester has to ride the bike down a very long, very steep road, straight into a solid brick wall. I want slow mo cameras at the point of impact, I want a terminal velocity over 70kmh, I want blood, guts, pink mist really, blowing up. Obviously, the bike has no brakes. I'm not sure how practical it would be to prevent the guy from trying to save himself, so probably there are guard rails with various lovely knick knacks, like razor blades, rusty barb wire, maybe some embankments with broken glass.
And then the victims and their families get to piss on the carcass.
Then you discard the bike and chuck the remains in the compost bin.
That would sell so well as pay per view content. And bits of the impact would make great tiktok videos.
The show would need a nice title, maybe something demure like "piss on the carcass"?
I should work in media.
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Tantan claims that it is full T1000 (not any T700 or T800). What do you think ? (Brittle, fragile,...)
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I really like this idea. Test for a couple of months, and then have the Chinertown moderators randomly select a member to receive the frame afterwards. It's a Festivus miracle!
The challenge is maybe the size of the frame? I think you ride a 56 right?
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I can fit a 56, so still in for fifteen lol ;D
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(https://i.imgur.com/9cIO8Ta_d.webp?maxwidth=760&fidelity=grand)
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Tantan claims that it is full T1000 (not any T700 or T800). What do you think ? (Brittle, fragile,...)
email them leading the question with what's the approximate mix of fibers between T700, T800 and T1000?
If you tell them that, it's going to be harder for them to claim it's full T1000.
If you simply ask "is it full T1000?" they might not feel they're lying by saying yes.
China is culturally very different, and the language as well. What's B&W for us can be a satisfying shade of grey for them.
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email them leading the question with what's the approximate mix of fibers between T700, T800 and T1000?
If you tell them that, it's going to be harder for them to claim it's full T1000.
If you simply ask "is it full T1000?" they might not feel they're lying by saying yes.
China is culturally very different, and the language as well. What's B&W for us can be a satisfying shade of grey for them.
I asked for the mix but they said full T1000.
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I asked for the mix but they said full T1000.
A little bird tells me that's impossible, but maybe that little bird is a russian troll peddling conspiratorial non sense on truth social, and really is full of $hit.
If people who know things could chip in, i'd love to know if it's in fact possible to make a 100% T1000 frame. I would bet it isn't, but I'm wrong a lot.
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A little bird tells me that's impossible, but maybe that little bird is a russian troll peddling conspiratorial non sense on truth social, and really is full of $hit.
You made my day :D.
Moreover T1000 is more expansive than T800 (but how much ?) and so is the EPS molding. But this frame is "not expansive" for those technologies...
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I’m in for $15 if this could really happen
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For the terminal use of the frame, I'd vote for a dystopian thing where some child molester has to ride the bike down a very long, very steep road, straight into a solid brick wall. I want slow mo cameras at the point of impact, I want a terminal velocity over 70kmh, I want blood, guts, pink mist really, blowing up. Obviously, the bike has no brakes. I'm not sure how practical it would be to prevent the guy from trying to save himself, so probably there are guard rails with various lovely knick knacks, like razor blades, rusty barb wire, maybe some embankments with broken glass.
And then the victims and their families get to piss on the carcass.
Then you discard the bike and chuck the remains in the compost bin.
That would sell so well as pay per view content. And bits of the impact would make great tiktok videos.
The show would need a nice title, maybe something demure like "piss on the carcass"?
I should work in media.
You should write satire. This is brilliant
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I asked for the mix but they said full T1000.
they can tell you its T6900 and you wouldn't have any means to prove it. just ask them to send some videos of a load test done on that frame and be at peace with it
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Btw, important question. T-800 and T-1000 are obviously types of Terminators.
Did Toray carbon fibers start using their nomenclature before the terminators, or did some genius in japan fell in love with Skynet and came up with these names?
If i were in marketing, this is 100% the kind of thing i would try to do, would be such magnificent trolling.
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What i find the most problematic is how seraph made a 321g with uncut steerer copied fork while specialized one's are around 350-370g.
It doesn't seem safe at all for me...
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What i find the most problematic is how seraph made a 321g with uncut steerer copied fork while specialized one's are around 350-370g.
It doesn't seem safe at all for me...
Seraph knows how to use carbon as opposed to Spe ;D...
You are right, very suspicious'
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I really like this idea. Test for a couple of months, and then have the Chinertown moderators randomly select a member to receive the frame afterwards. It's a Festivus miracle!
Do it Pat, for Chinertown science!! I'll be down to donate.
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I'm veery tempted to get this frame actually... I've emailed Tantan/seraph to know if the frame takes Spe SL8 accessories like seat post and such but told me no
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I don't get it. First everyone is saying fakes are bad and now you all want one reviewed?
Sometimes I think this forum should be called toopoor4sworks.com instead! ::)
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Has it occured to you, perhaps, that people are not a monolithic entity, but rather individuals with differing opinions?
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I don't get it. First everyone is saying fakes are bad and now you all want one reviewed?
Sometimes I think this forum should be called toopoor4sworks.com instead! ::)
Apart from the ethical question, I think that people do not want fakes because they do not know the origin of the frame and the manufacturing quality contrary to Tantan who produce their own frames and who have a reputation (good to bad) in the manufacturing.
On the other hand, not sure if they produce this frame specifically...
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Has it occured to you, perhaps, that people are not a monolithic entity, but rather individuals with differing opinions?
Wow, you must be philosopher. ::)
If people want fakes, I'm all for it. Might as well go all in and get a fake SL8 from Taiwan Eisen and compare it to the real thing. None of this baby step bullshit!
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Tantan says the frame only comes in matte black. No custom paint options are available.
This tells me Tantan is probably just brokering the frames rather than manufacturing them. A little unsettling if you ask me.
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Did you ask if it was a matter of time? Maybe if you ask them for 50 USD more than normal? XD
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That's strange, when they first had the bike listed you could choose custom painting?
It really seems like all of these frames are coming from the same place, doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.
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If anyone wants this frame with s-works on for 250€ send me a message. Also full T1000, unbreakable bracket and clean headset.
In reality fucked up frame with flaws and glued in bracket. But it rides, 250€ for decoration is a fine price .. haha
I'm sorry but I don't believe this is a different frame than the counterfeits being offered.
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I might be better off buying a used SL8 frameset, lol. Any recommendations for an SL8 compatible integrated cockpit from China? Ideally I would like a bit of flare with something like 38-39 cm in the hoods and around 40 cm in the drops and compact geometry.
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If anyone wants this frame with s-works on for 250€ send me a message. Also full T1000, unbreakable bracket and clean headset.
In reality fucked up frame with flaws and glued in bracket. But it rides, 250€ for decoration is a fine price .. haha
I'm sorry but I don't believe this is a different frame than the counterfeits being offered.
Have you had some news from your seller or He is still ghosting you ?
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Have you had some news from your seller or He is still ghosting you ?
Got multiple phonenumbers and their address in Dongguan but I'm still being ghosted.
If anyone is in China and doing research at replica business send me a private message. Would be an awesome youtube video.. ;D (hint hint)
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Got multiple phonenumbers and their address in Dongguan but I'm still being ghosted.
If anyone is in China and doing research at replica business send me a private message. Would be an awesome youtube video.. ;D (hint hint)
Even Winow is ghosting me. Drives me mad how unprofessional some of these people are. I spent 3k with the guy and he wont reply.
I just wanted to vent :)
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Got multiple phonenumbers and their address in Dongguan but I'm still being ghosted.
If anyone is in China and doing research at replica business send me a private message. Would be an awesome youtube video.. ;D (hint hint)
Did you pay by PayPal ? Even if yes, I doubt PayPal can do anything.
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Even Winow is ghosting me. Drives me mad how unprofessional some of these people are. I spent 3k with the guy and he wont reply.
I just wanted to vent :)
Winow ? So not more professional as the others sellers.
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Got multiple phonenumbers and their address in Dongguan but I'm still being ghosted.
If anyone is in China and doing research at replica business send me a private message. Would be an awesome youtube video.. ;D (hint hint)
what do you mean by research?
well i do have news of at least 50 person getting caught at the factory which speshalice outsource their frame manufacturing and R&D to
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what do you mean by research?
well i do have news of at least 50 person getting caught at the factory which speshalice outsource their frame manufacturing and R&D to
whats!?
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I’d be very intrigued to see a blind test of Tarmac sl8 vs this X68 with the exact same components.. I doubt lot of people could feel the difference
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I wonder if this frame comes from the same factory as the others fake SL8 which are sold on Aliexpress or OBM, Taiwan Eisen...
Just curious of the quality.
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I wonder if this frame comes from the same factory as the others fake SL8 which are sold on Aliexpress or OBM, Taiwan Eisen...
Just curious of the quality.
Tantan told me that they are manufacturing it themselves but I still doubt
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Tantan told me that they are manufacturing it themselves but I still doubt
You are lucky. They told me that this information is confidential...
True or not ?
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I've been dealing with TanTan both as a paying customer and a YouTuber. My new GR201 gravel frameset is currently in paint according to TanTan.
One thing I've noticed on their Instagram is all the frames they seem to genuinely manufacture themselves have videos showing the frames being pre-production stress tested, painted in their lab, and then fully built. This is especially true for newly produced frames which they specifically want to market to OEM brands first versus direct to consumer. Basically the videos highlight their manufacturing capacity.
The X68 seemingly came out of nowhere. No pre-prod testing and no custom paint options available. Of course they don't want to fully promote this frame for obvious reasons.
TanTan lurks this forum as we know. From their perspective they probably have no incentive to disclose where the frames came from. For all we know, owners/investors of these factories probably own shares in other (read: competing) factories and therefore have the ability to trade products/blueprints etc.
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Here is a video where we can see the inside of the frame :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mO_n91GjKA
What do you think ?
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Here is a video where we can see the inside of the frame :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mO_n91GjKA
What do you think ?
Your link is invisible
I can't get it to show up either. Seems to be some kind of bug...
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Your link is invisible
I can't get it to show up either. Seems to be some kind of bug...
Yes, it is a bug. You can search it on YouTube :
TT-X68 inner wall shows precision cutting and high-strength carbon cloth stacking
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Yes, it is a bug. You can search it on YouTube :
TT-X68 inner wall shows precision cutting and high-strength carbon cloth stacking
It seems made extremely well..
I really hope it is the same producer of Taiwaneisen that I ordered.
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Tantan says the frame only comes in matte black. No custom paint options are available.
This tells me Tantan is probably just brokering the frames rather than manufacturing them. A little unsettling if you ask me.
When I originally saw the comments re: "Specialized offloading overstock" I first thought: "what a wacky conspiracy theory!". But now after digging into this thread, and playing a bit of "spot the difference" between photos of the original SL8 and the Seraph SL8...I'm becoming more convinced.
What a weird thing to do. They must be taking quite the loss on each frame sold this way if they really are overstock.
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What. If they had overstock issues like that they could just do a big sale, at 30% they could burn through all stock in like a week
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When I originally saw the comments re: "Specialized offloading overstock" I first thought: "what a wacky conspiracy theory!". But now after digging into this thread, and playing a bit of "spot the difference" between photos of the original SL8 and the Seraph SL8...I'm becoming more convinced.
What a weird thing to do. They must be taking quite the loss on each frame sold this way if they really are overstock.
Currently staring at my SL8 as I type this. The X68 is close but not identical.
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Currently staring at my SL8 as I type this. The X68 is close but not identical.
Can you tell us the difference please ?
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The overall shape of the seat post is ever so slightly different. The area where the seat tube meets the top tube is also marginally off.
While the bonding of the BSA bottom bracket to the X68 frame is rough compared to the SL8, it's on par with $500 frames. Specialized does a superb job of facing the bottom bracket (and caliper mounts), and you can clearly see how smooth the bare carbon is around the BB. I have a video on this. However, I can't tell in TanTan's photos if they either faced the BB then added matte black paint or simply not face it at all.
Personally I don't believe the X68 will catastrophically explode like one would expect if this was a purely counterfeit frame sold on AliExpress. That would be a bad look for a genuine supplier like TanTan. And other than TanTan using that seatpost gripping material, the frame would 99% pass the eye test for a genuine SL8.
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I just stumbled across this thread.
Is the TTX68 from Tantan or the SL8 version from Airwolf the "better" frame, geometry is the same, I'm just curious with which of these two frame to go, from which of those two sellers I can expect the better frame in general?
Or should I go with a LCR017 from Lightcarbon which has a very similar geometry and is not like a direct copy of a brand frame but more like heavily inspired by the SuperSix
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I just stumbled across this thread.
Is the TTX68 from Tantan or the SL8 version from Airwolf the "better" frame, geometry is the same, I'm just curious with which of these two frame to go, from which of those two sellers I can expect the better frame in general?
Or should I go with a LCR017 from Lightcarbon which has a very similar geometry and is not like a direct copy of a brand frame but more like heavily inspired by the SuperSix
I'd personally pick TanTan over Airwolf 9/10 times.
The LCR017 is also pretty good from what I've seen and heard, don't think you can really go wrong with it if you like the look.
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I'd personally pick TanTan over Airwolf 9/10 times.
The LCR017 is also pretty good from what I've seen and heard, don't think you can really go wrong with it if you like the look.
Thanks,
I like the not so much look a like look from the LCR017 it's more like a genuine bike standing on it's own rather than a copy that's why it is in my list
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I'd personally pick TanTan over Airwolf 9/10 times.
The LCR017 is also pretty good from what I've seen and heard, don't think you can really go wrong with it if you like the look.
I wish I know if Tantan is the manufacturer of this frame, or just a broker.
Maybe Patrick can have the information ?
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I wish I know if Tantan is the manufacturer of this frame, or just a broker.
Maybe Patrick can have the information ?
Tantan is a big animal, and their reputation is not great because of that. They sell a LOT of frames. Airwolf frames are dog $hit, for simplicity. If you have to choose between the 2, 100% of the time, go w Tantan.
Tantan isn't a broker, they make frames, afaik. It might be a carbonda situation where carbonda does make frames but it's probably the mothership behind it called - the name escapes me - that actually makes them, but it doesnt make carbonda a broker.
Velobuild is a broker.
Airwolf frames are crap, in the sense that the probability that you have significant problems with your frame is so high that you really have to want to make your life difficult AND give your money to people who give zero fucks to work with them. I do love their cockpits though, which tells me, they source stuff all over the place. Maybe they make the frames and source the cockpits.
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Tantan is a big animal, and their reputation is not great because of that. They sell a LOT of frames. Airwolf frames are dog $hit, for simplicity. If you have to choose between the 2, 100% of the time, go w Tantan.
Tantan isn't a broker, they make frames, afaik. It might be a carbonda situation where carbonda does make frames but it's probably the mothership behind it called - the name escapes me - that actually makes them, but it doesnt make carbonda a broker.
Velobuild is a broker.
Airwolf frames are crap, in the sense that the probability that you have significant problems with your frame is so high that you really have to want to make your life difficult AND give your money to people who give zero fucks to work with them. I do love their cockpits though, which tells me, they source stuff all over the place. Maybe they make the frames and source the cockpits.
I know that Tantan is not a broker but I doubt that They are the manufacturer of this frame.
And yes, I don't like Airwolf either (but never test their handlebar).
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These factories are owned by various stakeholders/shareholders. And some of these folks also have a vested interest in other factories.
I imagine it's probably easy to hot swap frames and manufacturing between them.
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Also funny Seraph claims 28mm tire clearance and Tantan 32mm (which I guess is right)
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I’m excited to share that I’ve officially commissioned the TT-X68 as a "Full Build"! After thorough consideration and planning, I decided to go with Tantan.
As per the timeline provided, the full build will take approximately 25-30 working days to complete. Following that, there will be an additional 10-15 days for shipping, so I anticipate its arrival in mid-end January.
I’ll keep you all updated on the progress and, of course, will share pictures and initial impressions once it arrives. If interested.
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https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCykaKPu7fP/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/reel/DCykaKPu7fP/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)
Magically TanTan says they offer custom paint options now :o
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FYI, the min seatpost insertion length is 100 mm with the 380 mm. For the original SL8, it is 75 mm.
Edit : Correction of min/max
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FYI, the max seatpost length is 100 mm with the 380 mm. For the original SL8, it is 75 mm.
You mean the minimum insert into Frame?
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You mean the minimum insert into Frame?
Yes, you are right.
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I’m excited to share that I’ve officially commissioned the TT-X68 as a "Full Build"! After thorough consideration and planning, I decided to go with Tantan.
As per the timeline provided, the full build will take approximately 25-30 working days to complete. Following that, there will be an additional 10-15 days for shipping, so I anticipate its arrival in mid-end January.
I’ll keep you all updated on the progress and, of course, will share pictures and initial impressions once it arrives. If interested.
Can you share prices and specs?
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i believe, like others, it s exactly the same frame already sold by airwolf
https://airwolfcarbonbike.com/product/2024-new-painting-light-weight-brand-sw-carbon-road-bicycle-frame-t1100-carbon-disc-brake-sl-bike-frame-bsa-bottom-bracket-with-handlebar/ (https://airwolfcarbonbike.com/product/2024-new-painting-light-weight-brand-sw-carbon-road-bicycle-frame-t1100-carbon-disc-brake-sl-bike-frame-bsa-bottom-bracket-with-handlebar/)
exactly the same geometry (SL8 copy)-> difference of 3mm on the effective top tube for the 52 (531vs 528) , but is it true when you analyse the pictures?
same BB : BSA
same spacers
almost the same weight and we can say same weight if we take into account the error margin
not verifiable differences:
light differences about the paint or sticker
28c vs 32C
Di2 or Mechanical vs only electrical
headset diameter 49mm vs 52mm
and probably 30 min by car between the 2 headquarters
But i agree that most SL8 fakes get 49/49.5mm for the headset (same diameter for specialized), i have never seen a fake model with 52mm. if it is the case the probability that tantan build the frame increases
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Can you share prices and specs?
Details ==> see Pictures
Frame: Size 54 cm
Groupset: Shimano 105 di2
Wheelset: "50×28mm tubeless Wave Wheel Ceramic Titanium hub 54T center lock Carbon spoke" on their website ; titanium hubs ; Carbon spokes ; Matt finish ; ≈≈1305G
Pricing:
TT-X68 Bike Shimano R7170 Groupset/carbon wheels
HB068:110*400mm 54cm black matte US$2,289.00
Price of oneSaddle SD4000 (bought 2 saddles Sd4000 and sd 2000) US$59.00
Extra carbon spokes+nipples 10 pieces US$60.00
Total US$2,408.00
Shipping By DPD US$280.00
PayPal Fee 5% commission on total orders (US$132.00)
Grand Total US$2,820.00
I paid 2729 EURO
!!exchanged by my Bank (2% fee) (Paypal has rly bad exchange rate)!!
will also go for custom painting "white chameleon" + 90dollar
~~ total 2819 €
PayPal Fee 5% commission on total orders for (Protection) ---> !!U can dodge this by paying ( family and friends option) but u loose protection!!
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Details ==> see Pictures
Frame: Size 54 cm
Groupset: Shimano 105 di2
Wheelset: "50×28mm tubeless Wave Wheel Ceramic Titanium hub 54T center lock Carbon spoke" on their website ; titanium hubs ; Carbon spokes ; Matt finish ; ≈≈1305G
Pricing:
TT-X68 Bike Shimano R7170 Groupset/carbon wheels
HB068:110*400mm 54cm black matte US$2,289.00
Saddle SD4000 (bought 2 saddles Sd4000 and sd 2000) US$59.00
Extra carbon spokes+nipples 10 pieces US$60.00
Total US$2,408.00
Shipping By DPD US$280.00
PayPal Fee 5% commission on total orders (US$132.00)
Grand Total US$2,820.00
I paid 2729 EURO
!!exchanged by my Bank (2% fee) (Paypal has rly bad exchange rate)!!
will also go for custom painting "white chameleon" + 90dollar
PayPal Fee 5% commission on total orders for (Protection) ---> !!U can dodge this by paying ( family and friends option) but u loose protection!!
Will they build the bike for you ?
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To be honest i dont really know.
It is my first time that i buy something from china directly.
I think they will build this bike "half way" . thats at least what i can interpretate from our communications.
They will "send photos once its completed" 25-30 workdays.
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Details ==> see Pictures
Frame: Size 54 cm
Groupset: Shimano 105 di2
Wheelset: "50×28mm tubeless Wave Wheel Ceramic Titanium hub 54T center lock Carbon spoke" on their website ; titanium hubs ; Carbon spokes ; Matt finish ; ≈≈1305G
Pricing:
TT-X68 Bike Shimano R7170 Groupset/carbon wheels
HB068:110*400mm 54cm black matte US$2,289.00
Saddle SD4000 (bought 2 saddles Sd4000 and sd 2000) US$59.00
Extra carbon spokes+nipples 10 pieces US$60.00
Total US$2,408.00
Shipping By DPD US$280.00
PayPal Fee 5% commission on total orders (US$132.00)
Grand Total US$2,820.00
I paid 2729 EURO
!!exchanged by my Bank (2% fee) (Paypal has rly bad exchange rate)!!
will also go for custom painting "white chameleon" + 90dollar
PayPal Fee 5% commission on total orders for (Protection) ---> !!U can dodge this by paying ( family and friends option) but u loose protection!!
Thanks. Overall I'd say the price is right for all the specs. Not easy to get it cheaper.
Did you consider wheeltop instead of 105 di2?
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Details ==> see Pictures
Frame: Size 54 cm
Groupset: Shimano 105 di2
how do you connect DI2 FD to the battery without drilling an hole?
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how do you connect DI2 FD to the battery without drilling an hole?
Hello SRAM ;D,
You are right :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDtpOkXAVCU
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how do you connect DI2 FD to the battery without drilling an hole?
Shitttttt, no hole for FD Di2.... Send them a message about it. It's a no-go for me, since I already have the groupset (2x11sp Di2 Ultegra).
Other option is the Speeder 55D, but it's about 350/400 usd more expensive or the Velobuild 268 that is a tiny bit heavier and seems to know some problems....
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Hi there, I have one ordered as well. I think cables are routed the same way as on the SL8. Page 22 in the instruction manual of the SL8.
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Picture.
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Hi there, I have one ordered as well. I think cables are routed the same way as on the SL8. Page 22 in the instruction manual of the SL8.
well seen, it seems to be the case , but nobody knows if there is an hole behind the cover
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well seen, it seems to be the case , but nobody knows if there is an hole behind the cover
Here is a picture of a replica (not Seraph but it is maybe the same mold for all replicas).
We can see 3 holes.
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Guys there is a Hole . Like the original tarmac sl8
https://youtu.be/sDtpOkXAVCU?si=ZnvWnhkHpfKSY8sT&t=14
0:14
https://youtu.be/1mO_n91GjKA?si=lpHXJ90pJZjDlfDN&t=24
0:24
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Thanks. Overall I'd say the price is right for all the specs. Not easy to get it cheaper.
Did you consider wheeltop instead of 105 di2?
yes i did even consider LTWOO, but after all MY research i dont think there right "there". Few more years needed in MY opinion.
In Germany u get Shimano Di2 105 for around 1k euros (full Groupset shifters , disc brakes, Cranks, Etc)
WHEEL TOP EDS-TX "almost" same price
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Guys there is a Hole . Like the original tarmac sl8
https://youtu.be/sDtpOkXAVCU?si=ZnvWnhkHpfKSY8sT&t=14
0:14
https://youtu.be/1mO_n91GjKA?si=lpHXJ90pJZjDlfDN&t=24
0:24
Thanks for that :) Was afraid I had to go for the more expensive option of Speeder :) And sorry was to lazy/in panic to search for myself ::)
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Hi, I'm also considering their frame. Someone already got a frame from them? I saw that some people have already ordered, but if was delivered, or everyone is waiting ?
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I'm almost ready to order this frame, just need to decide on the design of my decals (not speci of course).
I'm trying to do a 'leight weight-ish' build with 1250gr wheels. I'm fitting a Di2 11sp ultegra group. Just need to buy a crank. I need a powermeter, 11sp compatible, 172,5/170mm crank lenght and 52/36 rings. I'd like aero/closed rings that look look (like absolute black/alu gear). What would you guys advice (not to expensive, not heavy - preverably leight weight)
Is this the best option:
Magene Power Meter PES P505 Basis 4 Bolt 110BCD 24mm
PASS QUEST 110bcd
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Is this the best option:
Magene Power Meter PES P505 Basis 4 Bolt 110BCD 24mm
PASS QUEST 110bcd
I'd also consider the Magene P505 S1103 spider only. You can mount that to any 3 bolt crankset such as the Riro carbon cranks and get additional weight savings. I have two of S1103 PM spiders on my road bikes using carbon cranksets. It'll also open you up to any 110bcd 4 and 5 bolt options.
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The riro crankset has a 24mm aluminium spindle, I would not trust it. The magene crankset has a 24mm steel spindle like shimano has. As someone who had a broken spindle once, I would not go for aluminium, why chance it?
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The riro crankset has a 24mm aluminium spindle, I would not trust it. The magene crankset has a 24mm steel spindle like shimano has. As someone who had a broken spindle once, I would not go for aluminium, why chance it?
That sounds like a valid argument that I've read before. What your option be for PM, crank and chainrings? Is the PES Magene crank option that heavy/too heavy?
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It is really not that heavy. I'm using the shimano chainrings for the best shifting performance. The crank + chainrings weigh around 820g. That is roughly 100g heavier than the ultegra chainset without a pm. That is a tradeoff I gladly chose.
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The riro crankset has a 24mm aluminium spindle, I would not trust it. The magene crankset has a 24mm steel spindle like shimano has. As someone who had a broken spindle once, I would not go for aluminium, why chance it?
3 bolt cranksets in steel and 29mm axles also exist. ;)
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That depends of whether you want to use a 29mm spindle of a frame with a 41mm bb shell or you have a larger diameter bb, so you won´t have to use tiny bearings.
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Do you guys order TT and Seraph directly from their web site or is there a cheaper alternatives ? Is TT and Seraph the same or different ?
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I'd also consider the Magene P505 S1103 spider only. You can mount that to any 3 bolt crankset such as the Riro carbon cranks and get additional weight savings. I have two of S1103 PM spiders on my road bikes using carbon cranksets. It'll also open you up to any 110bcd 4 and 5 bolt options.
Pes505 is a great crankset with power meter. Weigh is competitive.
Riro have questionable quality and s1103 is pretty heavy at almost 150g. Would not chose this combo over pes505 base
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Pes505 is a great crankset with power meter. Weigh is competitive.
Riro have questionable quality and s1103 is pretty heavy at almost 150g. Would not chose this combo over pes505 base
I prefer having options with different cranksets and bottom bracket types. Plus I can go with a lightweight carbon or a sturdy steel crankset if I choose. To each their own, but I'd rather have flexibility.
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I prefer having options with different cranksets and bottom bracket types. Plus I can go with a lightweight carbon or a sturdy steel crankset if I choose. To each their own, but I'd rather have flexibility.
Yeah, for some reason people seem to prefer 1 fixed heavy option compared to flexibility....
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We are still talking about a frame with a 41mm bottom bracket shell. 3 bolt 29mm axle is a dead end system, if you don't have a 46/47mm bb shell.
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We are still talking about a frame with a 41mm bottom bracket shell. 3 bolt 29mm axle is a dead end system, if you don't have a 46/47mm bb shell.
Bro, there are 24mm steel axle 3 bolt cranksets available on the market. As it stands, 3 bolt cranksets are perhaps the most prevalent and price competitive option in the Chinese crankset market.
This isn't a complex scenario. Either A you prefer a fixed PM+crankset option -or- B you prefer the flexibility of a versatile PM+whichever crankset. Only reason I even mentioned this option is due to people who've been bodging their PM from the PES crankset and moving it to something else. They could have just bought the stand alone unit in the first place. ;)
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Hmmm I am so tempted to buy this!
have an actual SL8 S-Works and TAN TAN are not your regular counterfeit frame operation, so with this and the Supersix they now have it does make you think.
Good to see when someone posts a frame up
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Hmmm I am so tempted to buy this!
have an actual SL8 S-Works and TAN TAN are not your regular counterfeit frame operation, so with this and the Supersix they now have it does make you think.
Good to see when someone posts a frame up
What is their Supersix clone? They also have a Cervelo R5 clone in road and gravel geometries.
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What is their Supersix clone? They also have a Cervelo R5 clone in road and gravel geometries.
There is another thread on here about it but here is the link:
https://www.seraphbikes.com/new-full-hidden-cable-disc-brake-bsa-road-bike-frame-tt-x69-with-5d-integrated-handlebar-max-tire-70032c-p6173127.html
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What is their Supersix clone? They also have a Cervelo R5 clone in road and gravel geometries.
The R5 clone in road geometry is the FM639 but what is the gravel geometry R5 clone?
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Just to verify, the SL8 clones being marketed are the Seraph/TanTan X68, Onirii One Pro and SPCycle R088? All have near identical geometry, weight and features. Any others besides the obvious fakes?
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Just to verify, the SL8 clones being marketed are the Seraph/TanTan X68, Onirii One Pro and SPCycle R088? All have near identical geometry, weight and features. Any others besides the obvious fakes?
The SPCycle R088 and Onirii One Pro are more like a SL6 (but with full integration), no aero sniffer!
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Did anyone ask wheter the frame is moulded with Latex + EPS? Or more regular PU?
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The SPCycle R088 and Onirii One Pro are more like a SL6 (but with full integration), no aero sniffer!
no, IMHO, the SP R088 is identical to the sl8 to tan tan, to airwolf, in terms of geometry and shape, but with a different head tube and fork
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The R5 clone in road geometry is the FM639 but what is the gravel geometry R5 clone?
GR029. I don't know if it's an exact geometry match but it has an identical look with much bigger tire clearance and more relaxed ergonomics.
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My frame is painted and ready for shipment. At least on the pictures on Instagram, my color combo works out pretty well imho 8)
I hope the quality meets my expectations on arrival.
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My frame is painted and ready for shipment. At least on the pictures on Instagram, my color combo works out pretty well imho 8)
I hope the quality meets my expectations on arrival.
Do you have a link to your Frame on Instagram?
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Seraph has a pretty nice portfolio of their frames on their Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tantanfactory_bike_frame/?hl=en (https://www.instagram.com/tantanfactory_bike_frame/?hl=en)
I'm impatiently waiting for a few more reviews of the X68.
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Do you have a link to your Frame on Instagram?
https://www.instagram.com/p/DDyPjJWJElM/?hl=en (https://www.instagram.com/p/DDyPjJWJElM/?hl=en)
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Teaser :
"my" ordered bike build is finished and rdy to ship.
Public video on instagram; https://www.instagram.com/p/DD9HWU2udrT/?hl=de
i also have received privat whatsapp photos of the bikebuild from tantan . I will post them when i get permission from tantan to post it here. Feel free to post your opinions.
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As promised, I’m finally sharing the photos you’ve all been waiting for. I have permission to post them here, so no worries on that front. I did not receive the Bike yet (expected mid january)
Complete Weight Of the Build : 7.175 KG
Details/Price/Specs: See at Page 8
Credits/Source:
Photos are from Tantan private Chat "Whatsapp"
Vivian@tantancycling.com
Sales01@tantancyling.com
Whatsapp:+86 13690938214
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is the handelbar cable system like the one in the photo? is there a possibility that they are hidden and not visible?
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As promised, I’m finally sharing the photos you’ve all been waiting for. I have permission to post them here, so no worries on that front. I did not receive the Bike yet (expected mid january)
Details: See at Page 8
Credits/Source:
Photos are from Tantan private Chat "Whatsapp"
Vivian@tantancycling.com
Sales01@tantancyling.com
Whatsapp:+86 13690938214
Do you mind if I ask what the total build price was? Great looking bike!
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is the handelbar cable system like the one in the photo? is there a possibility that they are hidden and not visible?
Not with this handlebar, it's the same on the real sl8 with roval rapide cockpit.
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Not with this handlebar, it's the same on the real sl8 with roval rapide cockpit.
$2,399 usd according to the insta post.
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That’s crazy value.
Personally, Building the bike myself and sourcing components is part of the fun for me. Also, I like the piece of mind of knowing that everything is in check. But I’m pretty amazed at what you can get for your money from TanTan.
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I wonder what an Ultegra build weighs and costs. That's impressive. I wish they'd start doing some more original lightweight designs.
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That’s crazy value.
Personally, Building the bike myself and sourcing components is part of the fun for me. Also, I like the piece of mind of knowing that everything is in check. But I’m pretty amazed at what you can get for your money from TanTan.
and i can see a benefit of having tantan prebuilds.
if theres something wrong with hole, clearances or odd niggles or defective parts, at least the 1st level fa/sorted out at tantan side.
tho it takes away the fun of building your own bike from scratch
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The Ultegra DI2 Groupset was about 1240$ without BB and Disc's. The weight difference is about 375 grams, when comparing the 105 DI2 and Ultegra, but only when not upgrading any 105 part.
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Still waiting for ride reviews
Reviews from Ali Express purchases joy great.
Maybe better frames from Tan Tan.
Are Tan Tan manufacturer ing there Sl8 copies
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Well I emailed Tan Tan and asked some questions in regards to frame prices shipping times etc.
I did ask do Tan Tan manufactur the frame and I was told
‘About the manufacturer of TT-X68, confidential. Thank you.’
Hmmm so not sure about it. They sell a frame that is obviously and SL8 label it an X68 and then will not confirm if they manufacture it which is strange I think.
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Legitimate question - What purpose would leaning into such investigative questions serve as a consumer looking to purchase clearly a fake/copy/unauthorized frameset?
One could argue it's about safety, production quality, or even integrity. I'd argue to probably look elsewhere for frame if any of those metrics are critical. I'm not saying consumers should throw all caution to the wind when buying fakes/copies. But there's an unspoken understanding that even TanTan expects the customer to abide by.
I don't go asking escorts about their history and business practices if all I want is a good time. And also the ease of just leaving the money on the night stand. I kid I kid ;D
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Legitimate question - What purpose would leaning into such investigative questions serve as a consumer looking to purchase clearly a fake/copy/unauthorized frameset?
One could argue it's about safety, production quality, or even integrity. I'd argue to probably look elsewhere for frame if any of those metrics are critical. I'm not saying consumers should throw all caution to the wind when buying fakes/copies. But there's an unspoken understanding that even TanTan expects the customer to abide by.
I don't go asking escorts about their history and business practices if all I want is a good time. And also the ease of just leaving the money on the night stand. I kid I kid ;D
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Hmmmm point taken.
It would provide maybe a little more peace of
Mind perhaps to the purchase to know the origin of
the frame, as if they are a manufacturer well it silly they have made the frame.
But I have learned this is not always the case.
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As promised, I’m finally sharing the photos you’ve all been waiting for. I have permission to post them here, so no worries on that front. I did not receive the Bike yet (expected mid january)
Complete Weight Of the Build : 7.175 KG
Details/Price/Specs: See at Page 8
Credits/Source:
Photos are from Tantan private Chat "Whatsapp"
Vivian@tantancycling.com
Sales01@tantancyling.com
Whatsapp:+86 13690938214
Nice frame and colour Combination.
How much did you at all for the whole purchase?
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$2399USD
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Curious to see how it rides. I was just quoted just under 2k usd for a wheeltop build with the standard 50mm deep wheels. Crazy value if it rides even 80% of an actual sl8.
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I'm still on the fence on this one as waiting for some reviews.
But obviously it would be interesting to to compare it to my SL8.
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!!MY!! First initial quality impression
Bike Delivery Update
Hi everyone,
The bike arrived on Tuesday and was very well packaged. A lot was already prebuilt, and the handlebar tape is wrapped like a god—truly excellent craftsmanship!
The fork’s bearing cups were not greased but weren’t completely dry either; they were still somewhat lubricated. I decided to apply bearing grease myself. The bearing cups for the fork, both top and bottom, fit perfectly with no play at all.
The seatpost itself is perfect—the scale markings are precise, clear, and easy to read. The two saddles I ordered additionally also seem to be of very high quality. As for the bike assembly, it was very straightforward and easy to complete.
Regarding the drivetrain, well, it’s Shimano 105 Di2—it works flawlessly as expected (Japanese quality!). The bike came with a Shimano Ultegra bottom bracket installed, which is a great addition.
The wheels also seem to be of very high quality, with no visible damage and running smoothly. However, the rear wheel is slightly unbalanced. That said, this is a common issue even with high-end bikes, as seen in many YouTube reviews. You can hear it slightly from the freehub’s oscillating sound, but it’s not a major concern.
I’d like to note that all of this is just an initial quality impression. This is not a long-term test, nor has a test ride been done yet, as it’s currently snowing here in Germany—January is the coldest month of the year.
The handlebar does have a slight flex when applying force to both ends. However, I can’t properly judge this since I’ve never had a "true" high-end main-brand carbon cockpit before. It’s worth mentioning that this kind of force generates a very high leverage effect, so the flex might be normal.
The paintwork looks phenomenal, but here too, I can’t comment on its durability yet.
U Also get no Torque Charts.. I asked tantan via whatsapp and they replied immediatly
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!!MY!! First initial quality impression
Bike Delivery Update
Hi everyone,
The bike arrived on Tuesday and was very well packaged. A lot was already prebuilt, and the handlebar tape is wrapped like a god—truly excellent craftsmanship!
The fork’s bearing cups were not greased but weren’t completely dry either; they were still somewhat lubricated. I decided to apply bearing grease myself. The bearing cups for the fork, both top and bottom, fit perfectly with no play at all.
The seatpost itself is perfect—the scale markings are precise, clear, and easy to read. The two saddles I ordered additionally also seem to be of very high quality. As for the bike assembly, it was very straightforward and easy to complete.
Regarding the drivetrain, well, it’s Shimano 105 Di2—it works flawlessly as expected (Japanese quality!). The bike came with a Shimano Ultegra bottom bracket installed, which is a great addition.
The wheels also seem to be of very high quality, with no visible damage and running smoothly. However, the rear wheel is slightly unbalanced. That said, this is a common issue even with high-end bikes, as seen in many YouTube reviews. You can hear it slightly from the freehub’s oscillating sound, but it’s not a major concern.
I’d like to note that all of this is just an initial quality impression. This is not a long-term test, nor has a test ride been done yet, as it’s currently snowing here in Germany—January is the coldest month of the year.
The handlebar does have a slight flex when applying force to both ends. However, I can’t properly judge this since I’ve never had a "true" high-end main-brand carbon cockpit before. It’s worth mentioning that this kind of force generates a very high leverage effect, so the flex might be normal.
The paintwork looks phenomenal, but here too, I can’t comment on its durability yet.
U Also get no Torque Charts.. I asked tantan via whatsapp and they replied immediatly
Looks nice! Could you tell the weight of your build (with and whitout wheels)? I'd like to know if I can make it 6,99 kilo with 11sp ultegra Di2 and 1230gr wheels :)
Also, what saddles are that? Do you know the weight of those? They look nice!
And last question: Is that color chameleon white, or pearl white?
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!!MY!! First initial quality impression
Bike Delivery Update
Hi everyone,
The bike arrived on Tuesday and was very well packaged. A lot was already prebuilt, and the handlebar tape is wrapped like a god—truly excellent craftsmanship!
You bought from tantan/seraph a frame + bars + groupset that came pre-built in a box? And wheels in a different box?
Afaik, it's unheard of, please enlighten us. Shipping cost too, as air freight of these oversized boxes is charged linearly, so every kilo easily costs another 25 eur or so in extra shipping costs.
If carbon sellers can source groups at OEM prices, it could be very nice to receive pre-built bikes.
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Seraph offers gravel bikes prebuilt with wheeltop from $900 on aliexpress, crazy!
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You bought from tantan/seraph a frame + bars + groupset that came pre-built in a box? And wheels in a different box?
Afaik, it's unheard of, please enlighten us. Shipping cost too, as air freight of these oversized boxes is charged linearly, so every kilo easily costs another 25 eur or so in extra shipping costs.
If carbon sellers can source groups at OEM prices, it could be very nice to receive pre-built bikes.
BRUH where have you been? We missed you.
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Under a rock it seems! Lol
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Hi
I got my fake SL8 from Taiwanese:
frame size 56 828gr (835gr with 5 bottles bolts and front derailleur hanger) - naked carbon finish, no logo
Fork 321gr - - naked carbon finish
Seatpost (long version) 173gr
Handlebar 347gr
It will take me some weeks to recollect the pieces and test it.
The only thing I do not like at this stage is the space btw fork and head tube and btw headtube and headset coverage (I will add some photos).
I will keep you posted.
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The only thing I do not like at this stage is the space btw fork and head tube and btw headtube and headset coverage (I will add some photos).
Have you installed the front end before you came to this verdict? You have to first install everything and torque everything and all will compress and the spaces will get narrower.
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Hi
I got my fake SL8 from Taiwanese:
frame size 56 828gr (835gr with 5 bottles bolts and front derailleur hanger) - naked carbon finish, no logo
Fork 321gr - - naked carbon finish
Seatpost (long version) 173gr
Handlebar 347gr
It will take me some weeks to recollect the pieces and test it.
The only thing I do not like at this stage is the space btw fork and head tube and btw headtube and headset coverage (I will add some photos).
I will keep you posted.
This issue of gaps in this area are well document over on Weighweenies for the actual SL8
Sone thought the gaps were excessive mainly where the transition spaces under the stem met the head tube. Good thing they transferring the same niggles onto the copies lol
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Seraph offers gravel bikes prebuilt with wheeltop from $900 on aliexpress, crazy!
Priced went up, and the shipping is alot more...
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$220 tu Texas, not too bad I think. that's get the bike delivered during sales for a cool $1000, hard to beat. it wasnt thta frame though
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Here are the gaps, on the top and below of the headtube.
Any suggestion to close a bit these spaces ?
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Can’t you file down the top side of the C ring to get it to where you want? I had to do that on my gravel bike, takes an hour work over a couple of nights for a perfect fit
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Here are the gaps, on the top and below of the headtube.
Any suggestion to close a bit these spaces ?
You got this from Taiwan, so not the same frameset from TanTan? so different hardware kit?
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Here’s the gap on my SL8 for reference.
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You bought from tantan/seraph a frame + bars + groupset that came pre-built in a box? And wheels in a different box?
Afaik, it's unheard of, please enlighten us. Shipping cost too, as air freight of these oversized boxes is charged linearly, so every kilo easily costs another 25 eur or so in extra shipping costs.
If carbon sellers can source groups at OEM prices, it could be very nice to receive pre-built bikes.
Yes!. Two Boxes, Well packaged and thick cardboard
Wheelset Box ~~4,5kg : Tires ; Innertube alrdy mounted ; discs brakes; cassette alrdy installed : it was just flat , i just had to pump it up !
Frame Box ~~ 7.5kg: Brake calipers ; inner cables (brakes and electronics) ; Bottom Bracked ; crankset ;Chain; Both derailleur ; Handebar tape; brakes Bleeded; Shifters , Saddle connected with seatpost , derailleur and crankset bolts are greased : ALL alrdy installed and really good craftmanship . shifting works (indexed),
I used tarmac sl8 manual pdf and added as it recommed by specialized Carbon paste: Seatpost and handlebar area for friction
Grease: bearings fork top and bot ; seatpost Bolt
Pricing details page 8
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Looks nice! Could you tell the weight of your build (with and whitout wheels)? I'd like to know if I can make it 6,99 kilo with 11sp ultegra Di2 and 1230gr wheels :)
Also, what saddles are that? Do you know the weight of those? They look nice!
And last question: Is that color chameleon white, or pearl white?
sry mate alrdy builded the bike up :-\
full build / sd2000 saddle / without pedals / frame size 54 : 7,175 Kg
Weight of the Saddle SD4000 no bolts 140 gr
saddle link "https://www.seraphbikes.com/3d-printing-technology-honeycomb-design-breathable-full-carbon-fiber-road-bicyle-saddle-sd2000-sd8000-mtb-bicycle-gravel-saddle-p5826463.html"
u can definitly safe weight at
Tires:
my tires Conti ultra sport 3 ("budget training tires") 700 X 28C / 2x 295 g
Innertube: conti. butyl tube
Wheelset: titanium hub / Carbon spokes / 1305g
Link "https://www.seraphbikes.com/700c-carbon-wave-wheelset-50x28mm-disc-brake-gravel-carbon-spoke-1305g-ratchet-3654t-ceramic-titanium-color-hub-road-bike-wheels-p5847395.html"
colour is "Chameleon White YS9145"
Di2 105 vs ultegra vs dura ace
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sry mate alrdy builded the bike up :-\
full build / sd2000 saddle / without pedals / frame size 54 : 7,175 Kg
Weight of the Saddle SD4000 no bolts 140 gr
saddle link "https://www.seraphbikes.com/3d-printing-technology-honeycomb-design-breathable-full-carbon-fiber-road-bicyle-saddle-sd2000-sd8000-mtb-bicycle-gravel-saddle-p5826463.html"
u can definitly safe weight at
Tires:
my tires Conti ultra sport 3 ("budget training tires") 700 X 28C / 2x 295 g
Innertube: conti. butyl tube
Wheelset: titanium hub / Carbon spokes / 1305g
Link "https://www.seraphbikes.com/700c-carbon-wave-wheelset-50x28mm-disc-brake-gravel-carbon-spoke-1305g-ratchet-3654t-ceramic-titanium-color-hub-road-bike-wheels-p5847395.html"
colour is "Chameleon White YS9145"
Di2 105 vs ultegra vs dura ace
Thanks! With GP5000 + TPU inner I can save a lot. Your wheelset is pretty leight, but still will save about 80gr there. Guess ultegra Di2 saves a bit as well.
You have size 54. How tall are you? In doubt between 54 and 52 :)
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Can’t you file down the top side of the C ring to get it to where you want? I had to do that on my gravel bike, takes an hour work over a couple of nights for a perfect fit
You mean the compression ring ?
It is made of plastic and it is the original Specialized one.
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for the upper area it is sufficient to file it evenly and it is solved, the problem is the lower part
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You got this from Taiwan, so not the same frameset from TanTan? so different hardware kit?
From a seller on Aliexpress called Taiwanese, not from Taiwan (unfortunately :D)
I deeply checked the picture from TanTan in Instagram and the frame is exactly the same I got.
Or TanTan is producing and selling to others or TanTan is buying from producers/sellers bu the frame is identical
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for the upper area it is sufficient to file it evenly and it is solved, the problem is the lower part
thanks for your suggestion.
What piece would you file ?
1. the casing of the upper bearing (thinning the carbon part into the frame)
2. the compression ring
3. the first headset spacer
Lower part should be qute easy IMHO:
I am thinking to fine the lower part of the fork tube, making it a little slimmer (0,5mm or less) so the bearing goes down and the gap should be filled.
Would you agree ?
Thanks!
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You have size 54. How tall are you? In doubt between 54 and 52 :)
180 cm
stride length : 83cm
? 30cm
for more details u have to pay ;)
stem length i ordered 100mm ( i dont even know how to measure it)
did not test drive I sat on the bike and it felt sporty
!keep in mind seatpost has MIN and MAX insert i recommend u have to have a look at original sl8 manual!
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2. the compression ring
file the black plastic part, with very fine sandpaper.
be careful not to remove a millimeter at once, but I recommend trying.
lay a sheet of sandpaper on a table and file the entire surface at the same time. the support of the headset cap must remain uniform
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180 cm
stride length : 83cm
? 30cm
for more details u have to pay ;)
stem length i ordered 100mm ( i dont even know how to measure it)
did not test drive I sat on the bike and it felt sporty
!keep in mind seatpost has MIN and MAX insert i recommend u have to have a look at original sl8 manual!
Haha, that's enough details on lenght :D
I'm 178 by the way, so 52 could still be de more agressive/pro option :)
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I’ve taken a few pictures of my bike as a reference. The gaps around the headset look pretty extreme in the photos (angle).
During installation, I didn’t have any issues, especially not with the compression ring (was flat). I tightened the headset bolt very lightly, around 1-2 Nm. The result is that there’s absolutely no play between the frame and fork – I’ve tested it by pulling both brakes and moving the bike back and forth.
The steering also feels smooth and easy, exactly as it should.
Everything "feels" as it should, as if the bike is functioning exactly how it was designed to.
Other forum Photos of Gap Issue i assume this are all original SL8
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=172467&start=4740
https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=172467&start=4770
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I’ve taken a few pictures of my bike as a reference. The gaps around the headset look pretty extreme in the photos (angle).
During installation, I didn’t have any issues, especially not with the compression ring (was flat). I tightened the headset bolt very lightly, around 1-2 Nm. The result is that there’s absolutely no play between the frame and fork – I’ve tested it by pulling both brakes and moving the bike back and forth.
The steering also feels smooth and easy, exactly as it should.
Everything "feels" as it should, as if the bike is functioning exactly how it was designed to.
Hmmm they look ok I will post a few photo of my SL8 today tomorrow in the same area see how they compare
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thanks for your suggestion.
What piece would you file ?
1. the casing of the upper bearing (thinning the carbon part into the frame)
2. the compression ring
3. the first headset spacer
Lower part should be qute easy IMHO:
I am thinking to fine the lower part of the fork tube, making it a little slimmer (0,5mm or less) so the bearing goes down and the gap should be filled.
Would you agree ?
Thanks!
You bought this from Taiwan Eisen off Alie Express? I'd recommend starting a separate post as well so you can tell everyone your experience.
Remember just cause it looks the same doesn't mean it's the same frameset. Tantan's version has larger headset bearings
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Bearings are both 49.5x40.5x6.5 - 45
What are the bearings of TanTan X68 ?
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Bearings are both 49.5x40.5x6.5 - 45
What are the bearings of TanTan X68 ?
Yeah the bearings you listed are the same for the majority of SL8 clones out there.
The Tantan/Seraph X68 and Spcycle R088 versions have 52mm bearings top and bottom.
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Looks like some of you have received your frames. Curious as to how long it took from placing your order to it arriving at your door? I’ve been eagerly waiting nearly 2 months now.
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Ordered one today, Wheeltop with the standard 50mm carbon wheels. $2500 delivered to USA. Not expecting this to be s works level, but in a 49 hope it rides roughly lie a pro/expert level sl8. We'll see.
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Ordered one today, Wheeltop with the standard 50mm carbon wheels. $2500 delivered to USA. Not expecting this to be s works level, but in a 49 hope it rides roughly lie a pro/expert level sl8. We'll see.
Interesting that the WT build is more expensive than the 105 build. Crossing my fingers for you, it looks like a great option!
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Not expecting this to be s works level, but in a 49 hope it rides roughly lie a pro/expert level sl8.
Has this test been done with anonymized frames? I rode a friend's bike today that i built for him. It's basically my exact spec, but with a different frame. The fit and coordinates are a bit different, so i'm more comfortable on my bike because it fits me better, but i really dont think i can tell them apart while riding.
There's so much vested interest in maintaining the mystique around high end frames, i really feel that it's largely BS. Carbon frames aren't spaceships.
Edit: i meant to ask if people have ridden (blind test) a spec pro vs a spec sworks with everything the same but the frame. I'm not saying there's no diff between a clone and the real one (i hope there is).
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... Carbon frames aren't spaceships.
And definitely not submarines.
Sorry couldn't resist. No offense intended.
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Hello guys, i'm about to order this frame but im a bit confused by this thread with regards to other brand frames mentioned. Is this supposed to be better than those other frames mentioned or its the same? I saw some comments here that people think its the same but then there are some differences mentioned like the bearings and so on. I've seen quite a lot of good stuff about tantant but im not sure if this is really from them and im hesitant because of that a bit.
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Hello guys, i'm about to order this frame but im a bit confused by this thread with regards to other brand frames mentioned. Is this supposed to be better than those other frames mentioned or its the same? I saw some comments here that people think its the same but then there are some differences mentioned like the bearings and so on. I've seen quite a lot of good stuff about tantant but im not sure if this is really from them and im hesitant because of that a bit.
It's a different frame, there are lots of similarities though since they are copying the same original design. That other gentleman just posted thinking this was an SL8 fake thread
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Has this test been done with anonymized frames? I rode a friend's bike today that i built for him. It's basically my exact spec, but with a different frame. The fit and coordinates are a bit different, so i'm more comfortable on my bike because it fits me better, but i really dont think i can tell them apart while riding.
There's so much vested interest in maintaining the mystique around high end frames, i really feel that it's largely BS. Carbon frames aren't spaceships.
I'm unaware of anyone thats ridden a real sl8 back to back with a "clone", let alone blind. I don't doubt that there are layup differences between the two, whether they make a difference who knows. There is a fair amount of research that the big brands do on various layups etc., how much of that is an actual factor in real world ridefeel is another matter entirely.
As far as the pricing comments go, its somewhat opaque as mine increased by a couple hundred bucks between initial quote and final quote due to "an error" whatever that means, and i didn't ask for an item by item breakdown. My build was actually around the same price as the 105 build in this thread, but that build had lighter wheels, so i don't really know. I was a little disappointed that tantan couldn't source a Magene pm to swap out for their crank, even if I had to pay full price for the Magene. No powermeter options apparently...didn't ask about shimano's as theirs have such a terrible reputation.
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The assumption to justify part of Specialized's SL8 pricing is that the higher grade carbon they use is stronger, stiffer, while also being lighter than something like T800. And there's consideration to the carbon layout to provide a responsive yet agreeable riding experience.
I would be satisfied with this X68 if at the very least it wasn't a noodle overall to ride. I'm just not sure how TanTan would achieve a decent level of stiffness at the advertised weight and price point. The frame weight similar to the real SL8 Pro.
If TanTan can come even 70% close to the SL8 in terms of riding dynamics (stiff head tube, compliant seat stays and BB, fantastic crosswind stability) then it's probably a solid value. On paper.
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Yes, exactly. I’d actually be happier if it wasn’t overly stiff in a 49. I think one area where the dollars get spent is in different layups for different sizes. I m 60 kg and 5 5 so my concern is probably the opposite of yours and both are valid. But I wasn’t buying a 6k bike anytime soon anyway.
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Soo you wouldn't suggest getting this frame for a heavier rider, i asked tantan on instagram and they respondend that the weight limit is 130kg but i assume thats a default answer for everything :D I'm personally at 98-100kg range so could it be a `noodle` as patliean1 decsribes it?
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Soo you wouldn't suggest getting this frame for a heavier rider, i asked tantan on instagram and they respondend that the weight limit is 130kg but i assume thats a default answer for everything :D I'm personally at 98-100kg range so could it be a `noodle` as patliean1 decsribes it?
I don't think anyone here can answer that question for you since most are lighter and patliean1's comment is supposition.
If Tantan told you that then you should be fine, I don't think they would just make up a number. If you are concerned you should tell them your weight and ask if it will flex a lot or remain stiff.
My boss is 275lbs and rides a carbon (orbea) frame with no issues
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The assumption to justify part of Specialized's SL8 pricing is that the higher grade carbon they use is stronger, stiffer, while also being lighter than something like T800.
Where is the claim the sworks is stronger? afaik, it's the opposite, it's more fragile. there are plenty of photos of sworks from pros snapped in half, pinarello used to make a super light version of a frame that dealers refused to sell to clients because they snapped like matches, which is no issue if you're a pro, but not sustainable as a bike shop selling to normal riders. And the highest grades of carbon fibers are the most brittle. It's why historically the high modulus version of frames are more fragile: they push the envelope on how much fiber to use, but also, the portion of fiber that's high modulus / super fancy itself is much more fragile / brittle. There are also countless stories of people cracking their sworks frame in the trunk of the car, whereas i've never heard that with frames for mere mortals.
I understand that T700 is still the backbone of frames & wheels because without it, components would snap too easy. But it's not advertised because it sounds ghetto.
Which in turn means that the difference in materials cost between a 5000$ frame and a 300$ one is not on 100% of the fibers, but much less than that (assuming a good chunk is still T700/T800).
Caveat: i've never hold a sheet of pre preg in my life, & idk what i'm talking about.
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No, agree its not just the materials. Its also in the additional handling and complication of a more detailed layup. More pieces or different fiber and orientation. And also a premium markup. How much to attribute to each factor is highly secretive for obvious reasons.
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I definitely need to do a deep dive research on carbon fiber and educate myself better...
https://www.instagram.com/p/DBkmr8loXYn/?img_index=1
TanTan shows a size 52 matte black weighing 836g. My Tarmac L8 Pro in a size 56 weighs 827g. Now let's say a size 56 TanTan x68 comes in at 900g for comparison sake. How are they able to produce a comparable weight with less fragile (ie: stronger) carbon? And at a $600 price point? Is the difference between a $600 frame versus $3500 all in the marketing, engineering, tooling, staff, and frame size-specific layup?
ICAN's FL1 frame (Aethos lookalike) comes in at 783g unpainted in a size 54. No aero design details so less carbon needed, but obviously the Chinese brands are capable of making lightweight frames. My Winspace SLC3 weighs 829g. I'm just curious why we don't see more of these brands offering deep sub-1000g frames. Most of them seem to fall between 1050g to 1200g.
In the past I've said my theory as to why Chinese frames are heavier is because it's a built-in insurance policy by making the frames, in theory, more robust. But why would they need to do this if an 836g frame is strong enough without cutting corners?
Obviously I like what TanTan is doing by offering such a wide variety of frames across different disciplines. So I'm not trying to scare anyone away from this particular frame. I really want one myself. My curiosity lies in TanTan's ability to offer this frame at such stellar specs and price as a reputable factory. With minimal compromise.
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My SPcycle R088 in size 52cm comes in at less weight at 760g with no metal hardware and about 790g with UDH and FD hanger. Only difference between the R088 and TT-X68 is the lack of the beefier aero-sniffer head tube and they actually added an FD hole for mechanical cabling. SPcycle looks like they opted for their own off-the-shelf fork to accommodate 32c tires. With my climbing wheelset, I've gotten my R088 build down to 6.87kg (cheap 45mm depth aero wheels 7.2kg) and that's without going full weight weenie. I still have lots areas to cut weight on my build and I'm basically running cheap parts (ER9 groupset, Riro crankset, Magene PM, Xpedo pedals). Bike rides fine and I'm packing a ton of holiday winter weight. Plus my riding includes mostly urban climbing, sh**ty roads, yelling at cars, hopping on sidewalks and pot hole ridden descents.
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I
ICAN's FL1 frame (Aethos lookalike) comes in at 783g unpainted in a size 54. No aero design details so less carbon needed, but obviously the Chinese brands are capable of making lightweight frames. My Winspace SLC3 weighs 829g. I'm just curious why we don't see more of these brands offering deep sub-1000g frames. Most of them seem to fall between 1050g to 1200g.
In the past I've said my theory as to why Chinese frames are heavier is because it's a built-in insurance policy by making the frames, in theory, more robust. But why would they need to do this if an 836g frame is strong enough without cutting corners?
Manufacturing technique, largely. One of the benefits of EPS is that its precision results in both a better finish with greater compaction, but also it follows that the precision allows for the end product to have less need for a "safety factor" through overbuilding. The minor weight differences between an actual SL8 and the bikes under discussion are likely down to minor details and even the resin used, along with the fact that all weights are quoted as +/- (tantan says +/- 40g for both frame and fork, so up to 80g variance).
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Should it be a surprise that these manufacturers are able to offer these replica frames at such a low price? We do know that the industry in Xiamen is tight knit. People move from factory to factory so intellectual property can leak, people can be bribed, etc.. If they have the cad files and layup schedule of a particular frameset, I don't think it would be that difficult to offer such as you see now. All that upcharge the big brands levy is to recoup all the sunk costs into research, design and marketing. Those that offer these framesets incur hardly much of that.
I have one of these replicas (not seraph) and I couldn't believe how good they are. I'm 190lbs and have beat the sh*t out of it with zero issues. It's currently cold as heck here but as soon as it warms up, me and my buddy with a real S-works both size 52 will do a test ride. Unfortunately, parts are not identical but I wouldn't be surprised if the ride is very similar.
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I am really interested in purchasing one of these frames.
I will choose the raw finish in size 52.
Considerations:
The raw TAN TAN frame weighs 140 grams more than the original Specialized frame of the same size, and I actually like this.
What I don’t like is the fork, where the TAN TAN component is even 30 grams lighter than the Specialized one.
I would like to ask TAN TAN to confirm the weight.
As for the rest, I am not surprised at all that there is a parallel production of a frame from such a famous brand.
If they managed to acquire the molds, they probably also obtained the entire process for positioning the carbon patches—how much to use and where to place them (perhaps with lower quality materials, but still effective).
What really amazes me is the blatant way in which such an obvious copy is being advertised.
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What I don’t like is the fork, where the TAN TAN component is even 30 grams lighter than the Specialized one.
If they managed to acquire the molds, they probably also obtained the entire process for positioning the carbon patches—how much to use and where to place them (perhaps with lower quality materials, but still effective).
What really amazes me is the blatant way in which such an obvious copy is being advertised.
on the fork, the only thing that comes to mind is Spec product recalls on steerer tubes snapping. So, potentially, they now ask their factories to make walls thicker than market standard?
on layup techniques. I wouldnt buy a clone assuming the layup and / or materials are the same. However, i would assume that factories that OEM for brands (aka, ~ all of them, afaik), learn. You can call it copy, i would say learn. Philosophically, learning is a form of copying. Let's not go there. So, when i buy an open mould from a factory that makes frames for a brand (for eg, when i bought my 268 from Long Teng that makes frames for Argon 18), the LOGICAL thing for them to do is to somehow apply what they learnt in layup techniques working for brands, to the other frames they make.
I learnt math, then applied math at work. I had to do math for a client and refined my math. Then when i get home and have to do math for my own use, i dont suddenly start using beans to count, i still do math. Now replace this with layup, as i dont think you can patent layups, and even if you can, it's impossible to prove that the brand layup would have been "stolen".
And so, as times passes, good factories should be making increasingly good open mould, OEM, and clone frames.
On blatant copies, if it doesnt have a Spec logo on it, if it's not advertised as a spec, either in writing or pictures, then it's arguably not "blatant" that it's a rip off. Legally speaking, showing a logo that's not yours is a no no. But a frame shape? You'd have a lawyer up, and is the speed sniffer a patented design, or just a common sense design? What if something is different by 1mm, does it make it enough to claim it's different? And so on.
China's been playing a game of cat and mouse since the west started having stuff manufactured there. And in a way, it's "just" learning. A telling example of that is the downfall of gopro and the rise of digi drones & insta360 cameras. gopro absolutely failed at both, and both digi & insta360 are chinese brands that now lead the categories with their products, innovation and so on.
And re. bikes, it's the chinese factories that know how to do a layup. The west sends them requests for stiffness, compliance, shapes and so on, but china knows how to layup a frame, not the west, because the people doing the actual layup are chinese. With, ofc, the exception of 3 factories in Europe & the US, but there's an exception to every rule.
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That OEM factories master carbon processing—I agree.
Starting from the idea of offering a good product for $700, what should I do?
Start with elements that are already working and tested by others, minimizing the testing phase as much as possible.
Use raw materials that are not the latest generation (types of carbon and resins). And here’s my question:
Let me use random numbers to explain myself:
For example, Specialized’s SL8 project requires that the frame is composed of 280 pre-cut pieces of a specific shape, placed in a specific position, with a specific thickness, and using a specific type of carbon and resin (and all of this has to be recalculated for each frame size).
If an OEM factory uses different materials to reduce costs, the scheme (the 280 pre-cut pieces) created by the parent company would have to be revised. And this brings us back to the need for expensive tests and prototypes to achieve a good result with inferior materials.
Conclusions:
My reasoning would be:
I am an OEM manufacturer. If I want to create a GOOD product with that design aesthetic but using different materials—and I want to do as little testing and trial-and-error as possible—what do I do?
Example:
The Specialized frame in size 52 weighs 800 grams. I add 80–100 grams more material to mine and achieve the desired result.
The Specialized fork weighs 350 grams. I make mine weigh 380 grams.
Instead, seeing that the Tan Tan fork weighs 30 grams less worries me. I can’t explain it.
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Of course the OEM's learn. That doesn't mean its economically viable to follow a layup schedule. Many of those tiny pieces are there for ride quality etc and aren't necessary to basic function, and the folks building these frames know enough to simplify. Again, who knows whether you can tell in the real world. EPS molding is an example of learning.
Totally agree that a very large part of the savings on these comes from the lack of need to recover sunk development costs. It also comes for having a direct to consumer model. Imagine what Canyon could do if they didn't have to develop anything-you'd have what many of the larger asian brands are doing.
As far as shapes go, no one needs to "steal a mold" - you can scan an actual bike. Then you're not "stealing" anything but the shape, which as pointed out isn't patented, although it may be ip protected in the west in other ways.
As far as fork weights go, the 30g being fretted about is within the tolerance quoted by tantan, and likely Specialized's number is conservative. I wouldn't worry about it.
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Finally received my frame, size 54 in matte black. Can't speak for quality as this is my first brand new disc build, but everything looks the par. I did notice the common fork and headset area gap, as well as a slight gap on the top side, between the spacers and headset.
I'll be posting my build list with weights once the bike is built up, should be pretty close to 6.9kg.
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I decided to order it in the end, will try to post an update when i get the frame and when i build up the bike. Hope that the frame is gonna be fine ;D
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Totally agree that a very large part of the savings on these comes from the lack of need to recover sunk development costs.
I'd also include frames being replaced via warranty claims as part of the price point too.
In my recent video featuring a set of $3000 ENVE SES 4.5 wheels, several ENVE customers mentioned how good ENVE's warranty service is. And several viewers also said this is because the company essentially builds into their pricing two "free" replacement set of wheels under warranty, no questions asked, within the first three years of ownership. Basically the customer is paying for 3 sets of ENVE wheels upfront.
By this logic if Chinese brands selling $600 frames were to offer a similar warranty/service, frames would probably cost closer $1500-$2000. Makes sense why it's in their best interest to just produce frames as robust as possible even if with a slight weight and ride comfort penalty.
I wonder if Winspace, Tavelo, and SEKA would do the same. Considering their frames cost about the same.
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I'd also include frames being replaced via warranty claims as part of the price point too.
In my recent video featuring a set of $3000 ENVE SES 4.5 wheels, several ENVE customers mentioned how good ENVE's warranty service is. And several viewers also said this is because the company essentially builds into their pricing two "free" replacement set of wheels under warranty, no questions asked, within the first three years of ownership. Basically the customer is paying for 3 sets of ENVE wheels upfront.
By this logic if Chinese brands selling $600 frames were to offer a similar warranty/service, frames would probably cost closer $1500-$2000. Makes sense why it's in their best interest to just produce frames as robust as possible even if with a slight weight and ride comfort penalty.
I wonder if Winspace, Tavelo, and SEKA would do the same. Considering their frames cost about the same.
I spoke with a winspace authorized dealer in my area before buying my SLC3 to ask about their warranty. He said hes only ever seen a winspace frame once in his life, a t1550 and it didnt need repaired. But he did say he sells a lot of the hyper wheels in store and they are better than most brands with warrantying things when needed, but he hasn't had to warranty many of wheels at all.
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And several viewers also said this is because the company essentially builds into their pricing two "free" replacement set of wheels under warranty, no questions asked, within the first three years of ownership. Basically the customer is paying for 3 sets of ENVE wheels upfront.
I love it, this is absurd, an actuary would laugh at this :D It's a funny way to get to the ludicrous price point though!
But that excess pricing upfront is a key reason why i buy OEM. Once you know the price of things by getting closer to the source, you worry about warranty less, because you know how easy / cheap it is to replace what you break. The caveat to that being: if not planned well, you can find yourself without a bike to ride for weeks. Hence, have lots of bikes in inventory :D
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https://tool.nbchao.com/seka/list/7/
This is the color pallete available for this frameset... It also seems that SEKA is made there too.
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My Seraph/ TanTan TT X 68 Build - Size 54 - Matte Black
6.94kg - $2900ish all in. Weight is plus or minus 50gwith grease, and misc hardware not accounted for.
I acquired most of these parts used over the course of 4-5 months, via ebay and facebook. I learned about most of the build options, not named shimano, from this site or via youtube (GC Performance, Pat Lino, China Cycling, etc...). I also built this bike by myself, first time ever doing a frame-up build, and used GC's SL8 bike build and his other videos.
Frameset - $629 + $100 shipping. Took about 2 months to receive.
Frame w/ headset bearings, bottle cage bolts, fd mount, rd mount - 878g
Uncut Fork - 339g Cut Fork - 309g (10mm spacer)
Uncut Seatpost w/ hardware - 166g Seatpost Wedge - 20g
Thru Axles - 62g
Bar/ Stem 120/38 - 326g
Spacers and Covers - 15g
Garmin Mount - 28g (kinda sucks on first impression, will be looking for alternatives)
BSA30 BB - 88g
Aliexpress SL8 Direct Mount RD Hanger - 15g (saves 8g)
CRW 50/55 Wheelset - 1325g
MT900 160/140 Rotors - 187g (pair)
Aliexpress Tubeless Valves - 11g (pair)
Sunshine Cassette 11-32 - 230g
Vittoria Corsa Pro Control Cream 28 Tubeless - 633g (should be 520g for the pair according to BRR.com)
Amazon CL Rings - 23g (pair)
Stans Sealant 40ml per tire - 60g
Shimano ST-R8170 - 399g
Shimano BR-R8170 - 300g (bolts, pads, calipers)
Shimano FD-R8150 - 112g
Shimano RD-R8150 - 250g
Shimano BT-DN300 - 52g
Di2 Cables - 16g
Sram Force 170, Quarq PM, 53/39 Chainrings - 753g (old sram powerglide chainrings)
KMC X12 Gold - 243g (uncut was 273g)
Brake Hoses - 35g (approximate. I subtracted the excess)
Aliexpress Carbon Bottle Cages - 48g (pair)
Ryet 3d Ultralight 143mm - 165g
Deda Tretaforo Bar Tape - 35g (40g uncut)
R8000 Ultegra Pedals - 248g
Future Weight Weenie Options:
HY Seatpost - 130g - $167 (saves 36g)
Avian Canary - 266g - $300 approximately (saves 60g)
BDOP 11-30 Cassette - 126g - $160 (saves 104g)
Xcadey/ Lexon 53/39 - 600g - $615 (saves 153g)
J&L Axles - 47g - $40(saves 15g)
Tofu Comtura Prima 28 Tires - 480g - $120 (saves 153g over current tires)
Wheels - 1150-1200g - $800 to infinity (plenty of options here)
Saddle - 100-130g - $40 to infinity (plenty of options here)
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https://tool.nbchao.com/seka/list/7/
This is the color pallete available for this frameset... It also seems that SEKA is made there too.
No fancy metallic colors?
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No fancy metallic colors?
I am sure they do, you would just have to look, I am not affiliated with them. Just looking at getting a frame and they sent the link to me
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My Seraph/ TanTan TT X 68 Build - Size 54 - Matte Black
Care to share a photo or two? ;D
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My Seraph/ TanTan TT X 68 Build - Size 54 - Matte Black
6.94kg - $2900ish all in. Weight is plus or minus 50gwith grease, and misc hardware not accounted for.
I acquired most of these parts used over the course of 4-5 months, via ebay and facebook. I learned about most of the build options, not named shimano, from this site or via youtube (GC Performance, Pat Lino, China Cycling, etc...). I also built this bike by myself, first time ever doing a frame-up build, and used GC's SL8 bike build and his other videos.
Frameset - $629 + $100 shipping. Took about 2 months to receive.
Frame w/ headset bearings, bottle cage bolts, fd mount, rd mount - 878g
Uncut Fork - 339g Cut Fork - 309g (10mm spacer)
Uncut Seatpost w/ hardware - 166g Seatpost Wedge - 20g
Thru Axles - 62g
Bar/ Stem 120/38 - 326g
Spacers and Covers - 15g
Garmin Mount - 28g (kinda sucks on first impression, will be looking for alternatives)
BSA30 BB - 88g
Aliexpress SL8 Direct Mount RD Hanger - 15g (saves 8g)
CRW 50/55 Wheelset - 1325g
MT900 160/140 Rotors - 187g (pair)
Aliexpress Tubeless Valves - 11g (pair)
Sunshine Cassette 11-32 - 230g
Vittoria Corsa Pro Control Cream 28 Tubeless - 633g (should be 520g for the pair according to BRR.com)
Amazon CL Rings - 23g (pair)
Stans Sealant 40ml per tire - 60g
Shimano ST-R8170 - 399g
Shimano BR-R8170 - 300g (bolts, pads, calipers)
Shimano FD-R8150 - 112g
Shimano RD-R8150 - 250g
Shimano BT-DN300 - 52g
Di2 Cables - 16g
Sram Force 170, Quarq PM, 53/39 Chainrings - 753g (old sram powerglide chainrings)
KMC X12 Gold - 243g (uncut was 273g)
Brake Hoses - 35g (approximate. I subtracted the excess)
Aliexpress Carbon Bottle Cages - 48g (pair)
Ryet 3d Ultralight 143mm - 165g
Deda Tretaforo Bar Tape - 35g (40g uncut)
R8000 Ultegra Pedals - 248g
Future Weight Weenie Options:
HY Seatpost - 130g - $167 (saves 36g)
Avian Canary - 266g - $300 approximately (saves 60g)
BDOP 11-30 Cassette - 126g - $160 (saves 104g)
Xcadey/ Lexon 53/39 - 600g - $615 (saves 153g)
J&L Axles - 47g - $40(saves 15g)
Tofu Comtura Prima 28 Tires - 480g - $120 (saves 153g over current tires)
Wheels - 1150-1200g - $800 to infinity (plenty of options here)
Saddle - 100-130g - $40 to infinity (plenty of options here)
Thnx for the detailed listing. Could you share your height and maybe inner leg lenght?
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No fancy metallic colors?
Yes, they have metallics. I went with the stock pearl white but explored other options and tantan send me a number of metallics using the YS paint codes common among Chinese builders.
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I love all the waffle in this forum but has anyone got photos?
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I love all the waffle in this forum but has anyone got photos?
The couple of people that have bought it have posted photos
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Thnx for the detailed listing. Could you share your height and maybe inner leg lenght?
I'm 5'-10" to 5'-11", inner leg length i would say is normal. I've always run size 54 bikes (cervelo, giant, scott), so I'm expecting this to fit similarly. You can use BikeInsights.com to compare frame geometry's. I compared my now old Cervelo R3 to the SL8 (TTX68 is exact same geometry), and found 6mm more reach and 11mm lower stack.
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My Seraph/ TanTan TT X 68 Build - Size 54 - Matte Black
6.94kg - $2900ish all in. Weight is plus or minus 50gwith grease, and misc hardware not accounted for.
I acquired most of these parts used over the course of 4-5 months, via ebay and facebook. I learned about most of the build options, not named shimano, from this site or via youtube (GC Performance, Pat Lino, China Cycling, etc...). I also built this bike by myself, first time ever doing a frame-up build, and used GC's SL8 bike build and his other videos.
Cool build for the weight and price - just fire!
Tell about the feel, how well the bike rides, how stiff is the frame? What branded bikes can you compare it to?
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My Seraph/ TanTan TT X 68 Build - Size 54 - Matte Black
Future Weight Weenie Options:
HY Seatpost - 130g - $167 (saves 36g)
Avian Canary - 266g - $300 approximately (saves 60g)
BDOP 11-30 Cassette - 126g - $160 (saves 104g)
Xcadey/ Lexon 53/39 - 600g - $615 (saves 153g)
J&L Axles - 47g - $40(saves 15g)
Tofu Comtura Prima 28 Tires - 480g - $120 (saves 153g over current tires)
Wheels - 1150-1200g - $800 to infinity (plenty of options here)
Saddle - 100-130g - $40 to infinity (plenty of options here)
I'm curious about the seatpost-I'd like a zero offset option, but upthread tantan told someone that an actual sl8 seatpost doesn't swap in...
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I'm 5'-10" to 5'-11", inner leg length i would say is normal. I've always run size 54 bikes (cervelo, giant, scott), so I'm expecting this to fit similarly. You can use BikeInsights.com to compare frame geometry's. I compared my now old Cervelo R3 to the SL8 (TTX68 is exact same geometry), and found 6mm more reach and 11mm lower stack.
Thanks, same length here (but in the normal metric system :P ) Also on 54 on different brands (or S in case of canyon).
I'm also eyeballing a different crank/powermeter. Not sure if everything fits on this frame. Which combi Xcadey/Lexon are you considering als an future update?
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Thanks, same length here (but in the normal metric system :P ) Also on 54 on different brands (or S in case of canyon).
I'm also eyeballing a different crank/powermeter. Not sure if everything fits on this frame. Which combi Xcadey/Lexon are you considering als an future update?
Likely 170 cranks as i have that on all my bikes. Don't see any 5 bolt 130bcd options, so probably going to go with their 4 bolt 110 bcd and their 54/40 chainrings. I'd probably go with the 24mm titanium spindle as well, for compatibility and availability of BB's across the different shell sizes.
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Cool build for the weight and price - just fire!
Tell about the feel, how well the bike rides, how stiff is the frame? What branded bikes can you compare it to?
I won't get a good feel for this frame until spring, as i'm parked on the trainer most of the time. Just spinning it around the neighborhood for 5 minutes, the ride is nice. I'll have a better feel for the ride and stiffness in a few months. I'll be comparing this frameset to a 2014 cervelo r3, winspace t1500 (in progress trainer/ crit bike build), and previous aluminum scott speedster (tractor of a bike compared to the ttx68).
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What's likely to be the better choice, this one or the one from taiwan eisen?
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What's likely to be the better choice, this one or the one from taiwan eisen?
Probably the seraph/Tantan since they are a brick and mortar company that owns their factories
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I suspect they're from the same source. I don't care for taiwaneisen's marketing-everything is a counterfeit branded and they even use a deceptive company name-so I bought from tantan.
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I suspect they're from the same source. I don't care for taiwaneisen's marketing-everything is a counterfeit branded and they even use a deceptive company name-so I bought from tantan.
Maybe, I wonder if they produce their own in house because of the bigger bearings
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Thanks folks!
I'm sold to TanTan, only have to clarify the paint options.
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Not enough photos in here >:(
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Not enough photos in here >:(
Just Google "Tarmac SL8" :D
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YES WE NEED MORE PHOTOS!!!
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Just Google "Tarmac SL8" :D
Haha! I actually laughed out ;D
Okay on that note...I will see my way out.
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Shitttttt, no hole for FD Di2.... Send them a message about it. It's a no-go for me, since I already have the groupset (2x11sp Di2 Ultegra).
Other option is the Speeder 55D, but it's about 350/400 usd more expensive or the Velobuild 268 that is a tiny bit heavier and seems to know some problems....
Hi, have you also looked at the Spcycle SP-R088 frame?
It has identical geometries to the TT-X68/SL8, but changes the shape of the head tube and fork.
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Hi, have you also looked at the Spcycle SP-R088 frame?
It has identical geometries to the TT-X68/SL8, but changes the shape of the head tube and fork.
It has the necessary holes, they sell the complete bike with DI2
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Hi, I'm sending you photos and a video of the tantan sl8
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It has the necessary holes, they sell the complete bike with DI2
Exactly as with the real SL8, the FD cable port is behind the FD hanger
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Hi, I'm sending you photos and a video of the tantan sl8
Thx for sharing your frame
Request Could you Show or Film the Inside of The Frame?
wanted to ask if your or anyone here might be able to show or film the inside of their frame and possibly share a video of it? Ideally, using a camera or phone that can capture the interior details.
Unfortunately, I missed the chance to do this with my own frame because it was already fully assembled, and I didn’t have the tools to open it up. I’m really curious to see what it looks like inside—whether it’s to check the build quality, cable routing, or just out of general interest.
If anyone could share this, I’d be really grateful! It might even be helpful for others who are wondering the same.
The only source we have is this video and but unfortunately, the details are quite minimal and don’t give a clear picture of everything I’m curious about.
-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mO_n91GjKA-
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What are the torques wrench for front and rear carbon rail saddle ?
Thanks.
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What are the torques wrench for front and rear carbon rail saddle ?
Thanks.
these infos are from vivian tantan,
all Numbers in Nm
Seatpost 8-10
Bottlecage 4
Brake calipers : tantan dont have info also spcialized doesnt have on their manuual , i recommend u to go with 4 - 6
Handlebar 6-8
Fork Expander 8-10
Through Axle 12-13
Saddle both front and rear 8-10
UDH/SchaltWer 4,5
headset bolt screw : also no official info it is about - 1- 2 Nm till u have no play betewen fork and frame
beaware torque charts are little different from original sl8 page
example fork expander sl8 original is 5 NM
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Hey guys, I'm sourcing everything I need to build the bike.
I have a question regarding the rear caliper adapter for the 160mm rotor. What length bolts are needed for it?
Also, those of you who built it up already, were you missing anything from the accessories that came with the frame? I'd like to have everything on hand when the frame comes.
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I have a question regarding the rear caliper adapter for the 160mm rotor. What length bolts are needed for it?
I keep reading these questions. How much would it cost shimano to ship enough bolts in the 1st place? the ltwoo groups come with every bolt length under the sun, for eg. when you order a group from them, you get all the bolts, all the adaptor plates for pretty much any situation, and all the cables, charger and so on. Their RDs break, but at least groups are easy to install.
Given the size of the bolts, btw, you can probably find them in any DIY store, they should cost virtually nothing.
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Hi,
Almost completed my SL8 from Taian Eisen.
Size 56, 6.8Kg without chain, handlebar tape and pedals.
I have not ridden it so far.
It’s not Seraph/TanTan, do you want to open a separate topic ?
Ciao
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Hi,
Almost completed my SL8 from Taian Eisen.
Size 56, 6.8Kg without chain, handlebar tape and pedals.
I have not ridden it so far.
It’s not Seraph/TanTan, do you want to open a separate topic ?
Ciao
Given the popularity of the SL8, feel free to start a Taiwan Eisen LS8 thread, nobody will get upset. The thread we're in does say Seraph specifically. So you decided to go with an overt seller of fakes, but asked not to get the fake branding? Will be curious to read about your thought process & your experience with the order process & ride.
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Given the popularity of the SL8, feel free to start a Taiwan Eisen LS8 thread, nobody will get upset. The thread we're in does say Seraph specifically. So you decided to go with an overt seller of fakes, but asked not to get the fake branding? Will be curious to read about your thought process & your experience with the order process & ride.
I would bet on it that it's the same frame. I'm rating seraph/tantan and airwolf in a seperate category.
I've build alot of frames and some counterfeits I can't tell the difference.
Nothing like Elves, Winspace, Yishun, etc..
Quality wise I've seen counterfeit frames on par with the above brands and I've experienced a level below to.
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Given the popularity of the SL8, feel free to start a Taiwan Eisen LS8 thread, nobody will get upset. The thread we're in does say Seraph specifically. So you decided to go with an overt seller of fakes, but asked not to get the fake branding? Will be curious to read about your thought process & your experience with the order process & ride.
At the end I decided to go with an overt seller of fakes, first time after 12y of buying chinese “no fake” frames and components (mtb and road).
I have asked carbon matte finiture because I like the “Batman” style and I am not interested in appearing as an “S-Works” owner.
Moreover in this way I avoid any issue with the Financial Guard.
Btw It’s now 10y since I am riding also branded bike like a S-Works SL3 or Scott Spark.
Experience with Taiwan Eisen: great.
Availability and comms are TOP.
I have no experience in case of issues, fingers crossed.
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For the sake of clarity and for the benefit of our discussions, let me share the reasons that lead me to buy a counterfeit - despite I was not and I am not in favor of this - are:
- weight: the frame weights only 835gr size56, seat post (long) is 173gr and fork is 312gr (uncut).
To be honest, the weight of the fork does not make me so confident (even lighter than the original) but I will try step by step, testing on gravel roads at low speed at the beginning and then on faster descends.
There are very few chinese frames with these weights at 600/700usd.
- the frame/fork shape: it is extremely similar to the original one and this grants that the great aerodynamic features - on the chart and so well advertised from Specialized - are "scientifically" proven or at least comparable to the original frame.
Chinese frames "no counterfeit" do not have this kind of studies/test behind.
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MTB…tell us about your build? Brand and parts used if you don’t mind?
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For the sake of clarity and for the benefit of our discussions, let me share the reasons that lead me to buy a counterfeit - despite I was not and I am not in favor of this - are:
- weight: the frame weights only 835gr size56, seat post (long) is 173gr and fork is 312gr (uncut).
To be honest, the weight of the fork does not make me so confident (even lighter than the original) but I will try step by step, testing on gravel roads at low speed at the beginning and then on faster descends.
There are very few chinese frames with these weights at 600/700usd.
- the frame/fork shape: it is extremely similar to the original one and this grants that the great aerodynamic features - on the chart and so well advertised from Specialized - are "scientifically" proven or at least comparable to the original frame.
Chinese frames "no counterfeit" do not have this kind of studies/test behind.
do you have photos of the inside of the frame?
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Here you go
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Up to the head tube and fork, my SPcycle R088 is exactly the same frame. Are these just coming out of the same factory or does everyone have the molds for this design?
I've been riding the crap out of my R088, with no issues. It's a good frame. I'd probably do the same and get this clone minus the fake branding.
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When I get my frame from Tantan (hopefully at the end of February), I'll post some pictures taken inside the frame with an endoscope camera.
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Seems like quite a few people have received their frames by now. Is there no one who has taken it out for a first spin to give us their impression ride quality-wise?
Im pretty keen to order one for myself – currently on the fence between a Tavelo Arow and this one. But i won't be able to decide between the two without having heard any kind of review other than for build quality.
You lovely people, dress up and take it for a spin! Pwease! :D
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Up to the head tube and fork, my SPcycle R088 is exactly the same frame. Are these just coming out of the same factory or does everyone have the molds for this design?
I've been riding the crap out of my R088, with no issues. It's a good frame. I'd probably do the same and get this clone minus the fake branding.
Are you saying that if you could go back, you would buy the clone proposed by Seraph (or another store) instead of the Spcycle R088?
If you want a clone of the SL8, wouldn't it be better to buy Seraph instead of another shop?
My opinion is that the clones don't all come from the same factory/mold....Seraph and Airwolf are the only clones to have the 52mm headset (I don't consider Spcycle since the head tube and fork have a different shape) .
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So none of you would be embarrassed riding this on a group ride when you are surrounded by real SL8's?
I have no problem riding cheap chiner frames, because for me it's the sensible thing to do with my budget... But I just would not feel good riding a fake on my weekly rides with the club...
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So none of you would be embarrassed riding this on a group ride when you are surrounded by real SL8's?
I have no problem riding cheap chiner frames, because for me it's the sensible thing to do with my budget... But I just would not feel good riding a fake on my weekly rides with the club...
I wouldn't care, like with clothes, I don't have to wear Gucci to feel good
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I wouldn't care, like with clothes, I don't have to wear Gucci to feel good
That's not my point... would you wear (obviously) fake Gucci to an evening with a lot of people wearing real Gucci??
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So none of you would be embarrassed riding this on a group ride when you are surrounded by real SL8's?
I have no problem riding cheap chiner frames, because for me it's the sensible thing to do with my budget... But I just would not feel good riding a fake on my weekly rides with the club...
I'll tell you that I think quite like you...even without logos or with the Seraph logo, not much would change, so I would probably opt for the Spcycle R088 frame which differs in terms of head tube and fork.
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I'll tell you that I think quite like you...even without logos or with the Seraph logo, not much would change, so I would probably opt for the Spcycle R088 frame which differs in terms of head tube and fork.
Yeah, the headtube is just so distinct... It's so obvious...
I have nothing against this frame, and if I would live alone on an island and never do events or group rides, I would have no problem riding it...
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If you want a clone of the SL8, wouldn't it be better to buy Seraph instead of another shop?
I just went with the R088 because it had the features I wanted and was cheaper to buy at the time. Though these SL8 clones don't look that bad to me, I'd consider getting one minus any fake branding. To me these SL8 clones remind me of the Aethos clones on the market. I think the vendors have the build process figured out, especially since they're not trying to build them to the low weight specs of an S-Works SL8.
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I'll tell you that I think quite like you...even without logos or with the Seraph logo, not much would change, so I would probably opt for the Spcycle R088 frame which differs in terms of head tube and fork.
Isn't that just pretty much a 1:1 copy of the SL7?
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Here is my personal longwinded take. Anecdotally speaking of course 8)
-I stand by my viewpoint we each should spend on whatever inspires us to play bikes more often. While also understanding that our purchases neither makes us more or less virtuous than the next individual.
-Personally speaking, I have yet to find the value of blatantly counterfeit/unauthorized frames if I have to invest my own funds. Of course if one of these companies wants to work with me for a review I would probably reconsider. But there are just too many great Chiner frames on the market now.
-So I live Chicago with multiple groups rides on offer every day of the week in the warmer months. Yet 95% of my rides are solo. I started in cycling riding nothing but Chinese frames in a sea of Specialized and Treks so I don't need the validation of others. I still do most rides on Chiner bikes today. But most importantly...I think the majority of group rides are a complete waste of time. Especially if you treat cycling as a means to gain fitness rather a social activity.
-I wouldn't cast judgement on anyone riding a fake frame to a group ride. In fact, arguably one of the strongest racers in Chicago who competes against national level talent rides a counterfeit frame. Authentic wheels and cockpit however. But I assure you no one takes issue with it.
-My one true critique against fake frames, and it's completely superficial, is seeing customers put budget components and wheels on a frame "intended" for mid-to-high end Sram/Shimano/Campy. I think I once seen a fake S-Work SL7 with MECHANICAL LTwoo groupset and Elite Edge wheels. It made me wanna puke. Yeah I know I'll get flamed for saying that.
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I just went with the R088 because it had the features I wanted and was cheaper to buy at the time. Though these SL8 clones don't look that bad to me, I'd consider getting one minus any fake branding.
I also like the frame and, from what I understand, Seraph is reliable as a manufacturer/seller....but from my point of view, even without the Specialized logo, the frame is still an obvious copy of something else (even applying the Seraph logo).
To me these SL8 clones remind me of the Aethos clones on the market.
Can you explain?
I think the vendors have the build process figured out, especially since they're not trying to build them to the low weight specs of an S-Works SL8.
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I understand...I seem to understand that in several cases the weights are even lower, or am I wrong?
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Isn't that just pretty much a 1:1 copy of the SL7?
No, the SL7 has a different shaped dropper, seat tube and head tube top.
The Spcycle R088 frame resembles the SL8, but with a different head tube and fork, and for this reason it cannot be considered a 1:1 copy
(http://)
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-My one true critique against fake frames, and it's completely superficial, is seeing customers put budget components and wheels on a frame "intended" for mid-to-high end Sram/Shimano/Campy. I think I once seen a fake S-Work SL7 with MECHANICAL LTwoo groupset and Elite Edge wheels. It made me wanna puke. Yeah I know I'll get flamed for saying that.
I completely agree with you on the superficial part. Most people just do this because the frame looks good. However, under the hood, they know what they have even if the others don't know it. So how do these people feel it's up to each (no judgements as long as they don't try to cheat other people).
On the other hand, I think that cheap mechanical parts and wheels are actually more suitable than higher end stuff. If you got to do it, do it right. One want to build it cheap, then build it cheap eheheh :)
I'd not buy nor build my clients fakes simply because I think there are some other great options out there. But if I would, I'd do it for the sake of money of course, and would try actually to fit it with cheaper components.
I think most of us here could actually buy a proper SL8 or similar. We just like this "puzzle" game so much, and try to optimize here and there, have more bikes etc, that we end up sometimes losing ourselves in this :) After all, this is the spirit of this community
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Hello!
I'm new to the "directly from china"-scene (also cycling in general) so please excuse me if I ask stupid questions/don't have all the information.
I've been looking at this frame because it's been scientifically aero tested (by specialized), right? This combined with the weight is why I thought this was a good frame, I don't care about the brand and I don't really care if people judge me for riding a fake. Also watched Pat's and other's videos on the sl8 and it seems pretty good. Like some others have said in this thread, if this frame rides even just 70% of the real deal then that's more than enough for me.
-Personally speaking, I have yet to find the value of blatantly counterfeit/unauthorized frames if I have to invest my own funds. Of course if one of these companies wants to work with me for a review I would probably reconsider. But there are just too many great Chiner frames on the market now.
I'd not buy nor build my clients fakes simply because I think there are some other great options out there. But if I would, I'd do it for the sake of money of course, and would try actually to fit it with cheaper components.
I think most of us here could actually buy a proper SL8 or similar. We just like this "puzzle" game so much, and try to optimize here and there, have more bikes etc, that we end up sometimes losing ourselves in this :) After all, this is the spirit of this community
Could you guys recommend some other good frames? I'm not hell bent on this one but from what I've seen it looked like it had all the things I was looking for. I can definitely not afford the real deal.
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I also like the frame and, from what I understand, Seraph is reliable as a manufacturer/seller....but from my point of view, even without the Specialized logo, the frame is still an obvious copy of something else (even applying the Seraph logo).
I think it just comes down to buying from a reliable vendor. If Tan Tan offers customer service support, then I wouldn't have an issue. It looks like even the fakes are probably EPS molded and there are lots of accessories on AliEx for the SL8. Plus not all of us ride with the bourgeoisie cycling crowd. I don't think anyone would bat an eye towards an unlabeled SL8 copy in my area.
Can you explain?
There are so many Aethos clones floating around from Bigrock, ICAN, Onirii and reliability on those frames seem to be solid. They're not as light as a genuine S-Works Aethos (maybe the Bigrock), but most these Aethos copies seem to ride just fine.
I'm sorry, but I'm not sure I understand...I seem to understand that in several cases the weights are even lower, or am I wrong?
An S-Works SL8 in size 56 is like 680g. The regular SL8 is 780g. These SL8 clones are like 800g plus at similar sizes. My R088 is 790g with RD/FD and cage bolts, but that frame doesn't have the speed sniffer head tube.
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For the sake of clarity and for the benefit of our discussions, let me share the reasons that lead me to buy a counterfeit - despite I was not and I am not in favor of this - are:
- weight: the frame weights only 835gr size56, seat post (long) is 173gr and fork is 312gr (uncut).
To be honest, the weight of the fork does not make me so confident (even lighter than the original) but I will try step by step, testing on gravel roads at low speed at the beginning and then on faster descends.
There are very few chinese frames with these weights at 600/700usd.
- the frame/fork shape: it is extremely similar to the original one and this grants that the great aerodynamic features - on the chart and so well advertised from Specialized - are "scientifically" proven or at least comparable to the original frame.
Chinese frames "no counterfeit" do not have this kind of studies/test behind.
That actually makes a lot of sense. I'm not a fan of the looks of the SL8, but if i did, if i got to trust the seller of fake, i would probably get one for the same reasons. the aero testing is a strong argument. Likewise, i wouldnt get the fake branding. I'd probably troll and put an ASS-WORKS decal or something like that, to make it very clear it's not a Spec.
So none of you would be embarrassed riding this on a group ride when you are surrounded by real SL8's?
I would ride an ASS-WORKS surrounded by S-WORKS, just to troll my friends. But i wouldn't buy a S-WORKS branded fake S-WORKS, because it's illegal, cringe, and i'd rather troll than be a poser. Also, i can afford an S-WORKS, and can confidently say i'll never buy one, out of principle. I know too well the factory prices to pay such a premium for a bike frame.
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That actually makes a lot of sense. I'm not a fan of the looks of the SL8, but if i did, if i got to trust the seller of fake, i would probably get one for the same reasons. the aero testing is a strong argument. Likewise, i wouldnt get the fake branding. I'd probably troll and put an ASS-WORKS decal or something like that, to make it very clear it's not a Spec.
I would ride an ASS-WORKS surrounded by S-WORKS, just to troll my friends. But i wouldn't buy a S-WORKS branded fake S-WORKS, because it's illegal, cringe, and i'd rather troll than be a poser. Also, i can afford an S-WORKS, and can confidently say i'll never buy one, out of principle. I know too well the factory prices to pay such a premium for a bike frame.
I agree with what you say, but I think the line between troll and poser might not be so clear....in the eyes of other people they might appear the same.
In fact, anyone who buys a copy frame (even without the S-Works or Specialized logo) could be considered a poser, especially when the shape of the frame clearly recalls the original (see Tarmac SL8, Supersix or Madone)....and probably in most cases this is the reality.
For this reason, even if I like the Seraph X68 (obviously, I like the SL8), I think I won't buy it...at least that's my opinion today.
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Here you have photos of the assembly of the Tantan SL8. I will send more photos soon.
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More
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I mean if you're buying for aero, you really shouldn't be going for a tarmac
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Can you give us the specs of your build? more importantly the total weight?
great looking bike dude!
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Ultegra di2 12v groupset, wheels with Yishun rims and Sapim CX Ray spokes and Goldix 180 hubs. Galfer Weave 140 rear 160 front discs. Bontrager Mostrose saddle, Rockbros handlebar tape, Continental Grandsport tires with Ridenow lightweight tubes, carbon bottle cages from AliExpress. I think that's it. I haven't weighed it yet. When I weigh it, I'll put it here.
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I mean if you're buying for aero, you really shouldn't be going for a tarmac
Well Tarmac is supposed to be a do-it-all. It has some aero optimizations, but it's also very lightweight, etc. The "speed sniffer" on its own probably is more of a marketing gimmick still.
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I finished building the TT-X68 already two weeks ago, but it was very busy, so here is my update.
Carbon quality seems really good. I had zero issues with sharp edges or anything similar. The areas for the break mounts were all sanded down really well and also with the BB and the headset I had zero play/issues. The paint quality is so far superb and I'm more than happy TanTan changed there mind on the color customization of this frame.
I use a full Ultegra DI2 Groupset incl. 160mm discs front/rear, except for the crankset. As most of you can tell, I'm using a Magene PES505 in 165mm. In combination with my Novatec R4, some RideNow TPU Tubes and the Pirelli Tires the whole bike is 7152 g. The bottle cages are still in transit, but they will add only about 25g. It's a Size 52.
For my first chinese frame experience, this was quite a good one ;)
The only thing I do not recommend is the computer mount. I think the angle of this is too steep, but I already found an alternative.
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The paint quality is so far superb and I'm more than happy TanTan changed there mind on the color customization of this frame.
Very nice green! Did you pay for the paint job / did you get a discount because you're putting their brand & model number? If not, why use their brand and model number?
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Very nice green! Did you pay for the paint job / did you get a discount because you're putting their brand & model number? If not, why use their brand and model number?
Why not put it on there? Not everyone wants to invent a fake brand to put on their bike... At least they don't charge you extra for their brand name like big brands do :D
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In combination with my Novatec R4, some RideNow TPU Tubes and the Pirelli Tires the whole bike is 7152 g.
Looks great! With some lighter wheels you could easily get below 6.8kg ;D
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Very nice green! Did you pay for the paint job / did you get a discount because you're putting their brand & model number? If not, why use their brand and model number?
I had to pay for the paint job 150$ in total. But I had several designs in mind, but at the end wanted just something easy on the eye (at least to my eyes). The green came out exactly as I wanted it, with beautiful metallic flics in it. It's a green tone I saw on an Aston Martin DBX here at an Aston Martin Dealership in my neighborhood. For the the brand and model-number I just had no creativity at all ;D
Looks great! With some lighter wheels you could easily get below 6.8kg ;D
Thanks, that gives me the chance to upgrade in the future ;D
I'm far from being a pro, just started 2 years ago with roadbikes. I guess I will starting saving body weight first ;D
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I finished building the TT-X68 already two weeks ago, but it was very busy, so here is my update.
Carbon quality seems really good. I had zero issues with sharp edges or anything similar. The areas for the break mounts were all sanded down really well and also with the BB and the headset I had zero play/issues. The paint quality is so far superb and I'm more than happy TanTan changed there mind on the color customization of this frame.
I use a full Ultegra DI2 Groupset incl. 160mm discs front/rear, except for the crankset. As most of you can tell, I'm using a Magene PES505 in 165mm. In combination with my Novatec R4, some RideNow TPU Tubes and the Pirelli Tires the whole bike is 7152 g. The bottle cages are still in transit, but they will add only about 25g. It's a Size 52.
For my first chinese frame experience, this was quite a good one ;)
The only thing I do not recommend is the computer mount. I think the angle of this is too steep, but I already found an alternative.
Very nice shade of green!
I'm not crazy about the yellow of the brand/model and logo....I would have chosen another color to match the green.
But did you choose the color yellow? Your same color is available on the Seraph website...
Are the brand/model/logo stickers above or below the clear paint?
Could you post a front view photo from which you can see the Seraph logo?
Thank you!
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The yellow is actually a "greenish" color as well. The main color is metallic, the logos are matte. Everything is clear coated. Yeah, they just liked my design that much, they just putted it on their website (without even asking). That was not cool and it seems they often do it.
I took their logo and modified it, the way I wanted it to be :D
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Looks great.
Just got an email that mine is "arranged", assume that means parts are gathered. So now we're in a race with the tariff pause.
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The yellow is actually a "greenish" color as well. The main color is metallic, the logos are matte. Everything is clear coated. Yeah, they just liked my design that much, they just putted it on their website (without even asking). That was not cool and it seems they often do it.
I took their logo and modified it, the way I wanted it to be :D
We await your first impressions on the road ;)
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We await your first impressions on the road ;)
So far so good. I did not die due to this chinese frame nor was there any kind of technical failure (yet) :D
To be honest, I can only compare it to my Votec VRC Pro and the TanTan is sooooo much more agile, direct and fast. In direct comparison with the Votec you don't need any effort to get it going. However, this was just the first impression and the weather in Germany is not yet ideal for longer rides. But I'll keep you posted :)
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So far so good. I did not die due to this chinese frame nor was there any kind of technical failure (yet) :D
To be honest, I can only compare it to my Votec VRC Pro and the TanTan is sooooo much more agile, direct and fast. In direct comparison with the Votec you don't need any effort to get it going. However, this was just the first impression and the weather in Germany is not yet ideal for longer rides. But I'll keep you posted :)
Are you living near cologne by any chance? Would love to see the x68 in person, before pulling the trigger :)
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My bet would be Recklinghausen,
A new listing for a VOTEC VRC Pro on Buycycle from there...
I see u robin :-* :-*
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Nope, Stuttgart-Area. I took the parts of my Votec and put them on the new bike. The Votec was transfered to some kind of speed gravel bike :)
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Hi,
I got an invoice of TanTan for this frame. Paypal fee are 5%, with alipay there is no fee. Addidionally the exchange rate at paypal is also very bad. How did you guys paid your frame at TanTan?
Have someone experience with wise?
Thanks!
BR Markus
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I took a risk and did the f/f thing on paypal. I've used wise in the past as well.
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How much is the frame total? A 5% fee for peace of mind is worth it. There are way too many things that can go wrong to chance using F/F Paypal.
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Hi,
I got an invoice of TanTan for this frame. Paypal fee are 5%, with alipay there is no fee. Addidionally the exchange rate at paypal is also very bad. How did you guys paid your frame at TanTan?
Have someone experience with wise?
Thanks!
BR Markus
I'd suggest first of all to try to get 2 frames at the same time. It's usually easy to get that. Either neighbours or friends or someone from the forum which lives next to u
I pay via PayPal but I use my bank conversion fee. U can use revolut or wise.
5% depends on your risk apetite
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I'd suggest first of all to try to get 2 frames at the same time. It's usually easy to get that. Either neighbours or friends or someone from the forum which lives next to u
I pay via PayPal but I use my bank conversion fee. U can use revolut or wise.
5% depends on your risk apetite
Buying 2 frames sounds very good, but I don`t know anybody who is interest to build a racebike.
But if anyone in D/AT is planning to buy this frame and would like to split shipping and payment, please let me know.
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My frame ended up being 871USD with a custom paint, shipping to the EU and customs duties already in that price. I used paypall payment with that 5% "safety" fee.
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I took a risk and did the f/f thing on paypal. I've used wise in the past as well.
I prefer to have the safe way.
Why do you prefer paypal f/f instead of wise?
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No real reason, there's no buyer protection thru wise anyway, and the times I've used it it was a bit more cumbersome than pp.
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Ultegra di2 12v groupset, wheels with Yishun rims and Sapim CX Ray spokes and Goldix 180 hubs. Galfer Weave 140 rear 160 front discs. Bontrager Mostrose saddle, Rockbros handlebar tape, Continental Grandsport tires with Ridenow lightweight tubes, carbon bottle cages from AliExpress. I think that's it. I haven't weighed it yet. When I weigh it, I'll put it here.
Silly question-when you built this, were you able to use the standard Shimano 160 adaptor or was there a unique one shipped with the frame? I ask b/c the actual sl8 has unique spacing on the fork that requires a unique adaptor. Just trying to determine whether its a difference or not.
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Buying 2 frames sounds very good, but I don`t know anybody who is interest to build a racebike.
But if anyone in D/AT is planning to buy this frame and would like to split shipping and payment, please let me know.
I‘m also real interested to buy this frame from TanTan - so splitting shipping costs would be a good Option. I planned to give the order at the end of february or start of march!
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Buying 2 frames sounds very good, but I don`t know anybody who is interest to build a racebike.
But if anyone in D/AT is planning to buy this frame and would like to split shipping and payment, please let me know.
Chances are the frames are going to be shipped in 2 boxes so you will still have to pay shipping 2 times... And 5% paypall fees means those will also simply double if you order 2 frames.
So this might not be worth the trouble...
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Silly question-when you built this, were you able to use the standard Shimano 160 adaptor or was there a unique one shipped with the frame? I ask b/c the actual sl8 has unique spacing on the fork that requires a unique adaptor. Just trying to determine whether its a difference or not.
There is an adapter included and it has the same looks as the one on the Tarmac. I couldn't use the standard Shimano one, but maybe I was just to silly :D
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I‘m also real interested to buy this frame from TanTan - so splitting shipping costs would be a good Option. I planned to give the order at the end of february or start of march!
But you should keep in mind that if you buy 2 frames, once for yourself and once for a "friend", if there is a problem with the friend's frame, the complaint must go through the buyer...
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Chances are the frames are going to be shipped in 2 boxes so you will still have to pay shipping 2 times... And 5% paypall fees means those will also simply double if you order 2 frames.
So this might not be worth the trouble...
Not from my experience. Usually they bring up to 2 frames per box. Price is not broken in half but more than covers all those fees
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Not from my experience. Usually they bring up to 2 frames per box. Price is not broken in half but more than covers all those fees
in my experience, buying 2 frames, they use only one box (bigger), but the shipping price is adjusted to the volume of the bigger box and the greater weight ... there is still a saving in costs
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There is an adapter included and it has the same looks as the one on the Tarmac. I couldn't use the standard Shimano one, but maybe I was just to silly :D
Thanks, no that makes sense. Its not off by much. Its mostly relevant only if you want to go Campy calipers as their 160 front caliper doesn't use an adapter and won't fit. I've got wheeltop group coming and their calipers are "ok" but everyone raves about Campy feel. Solution is to use a rear caliper and the spec adapter...
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Hi Guys,
as I feel that all the frames I like can't be sent to Germany, I'm thinking of buying the SL8 clone. I'm still unsure about the size and don't know which one fits better. Is there perhaps someone here who has similar measurements? I am 173cm tall and have an inseam of 78cm.
I'm currently riding an old CAAD5 frame in 54 (see attachment). A really great frame. Unfortunately, it's too big. I feel a bit like I'm "sliding forward" on the saddle. The frame has a reach of 396, the top tube is 545, my stem is 90 and the handlebars have a reach of 70.
For the SL8 Clone I'm thinking of size 52 with a 90 / 100 stem or 49 with a longer stem. If anyone has roughly the same dimensions and gets on well with a particular setup (even with other frames), I would be happy to get some advices.
Alternatively, I'm also considering whether the XMC CS-R01 would be better due to its more relaxed geometry. However, I am physically fit enough to ride a sporty geometry.
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Specialized has a fit tool on their website that works pretty well. If you fall between sizes I'd likely size up if you want comfort, sizing down leads to a greater saddle to bar drop.
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Specialized has a fit tool on their website that works pretty well. If you fall between sizes I'd likely size up if you want comfort, sizing down leads to a greater saddle to bar drop.
I have done the calculation on the Specialized site in the past, and the size they advised would be way to big for me. So you better not just trust that advise.
You can compare the dimensions of your old frame to an SL8 on the different geometry site you can find online and go from there.
I am 172 / 82 cm and would definitely not go bigger than a 52.
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Nope, Stuttgart-Area. I took the parts of my Votec and put them on the new bike. The Votec was transfered to some kind of speed gravel bike :)
Hey, Can you please tell me the total cost to EU? Any taxes? Thanks!
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Specialized has a fit tool on their website that works pretty well. If you fall between sizes I'd likely size up if you want comfort, sizing down leads to a greater saddle to bar drop.
+1 on not trusting that tool. That was a long time ago, but because of it I kept buying bikes that were too big for me because the first bike I bought as an adult was a specialized, a good size too big.
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For the SL8 Clone I'm thinking of size 52 with a 90 / 100 stem or 49 with a longer stem. If anyone has roughly the same dimensions and gets on well with a particular setup (even with other frames), I would be happy to get some advices.
I'm the same height as you at 173cm. I would go with a 52cm frame. My TFSA SL6 clone and my R088 SL8 clone follow the same Tarmac geometry and both my frames are 52cm. You could probably go 49cm if you want a more racier/stiffer setup. My TFSA frame has a slammed stem, while my R088 setup is a bit more relaxed. I'm using both 90mm stems, but I could probably go 100-110mm if I wanted to be ultra aggressive with my fit.
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Hey, Can you please tell me the total cost to EU? Any taxes? Thanks!
Shipping to Germany: 150USD. Tax included, door to door service.
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Yeah the Specialized fitting calculator can’t be accurate. I am 183.9 with a 89,5 inseam and it wants me to go size 61. The biggest size they got lol
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Yeah the Specialized fitting calculator can’t be accurate. I am 183.9 with a 89,5 inseam and it wants me to go size 61. The biggest size they got lol
Well I’m 178cm and my SL8 is a 54cm
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in my experience, buying 2 frames, they use only one box (bigger), but the shipping price is adjusted to the volume of the bigger box and the greater weight ... there is still a saving in costs
I got an update from TanTan, they can ship 2 frames in one box. shipping costs change from 150$ to 200$. All in all a saving of 53$ per frame
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Hello, I am in NL in the Eindhoven area, I may be interested on 1 frame...
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Hello, I am in NL in the Eindhoven area, I may be interested on 1 frame...
Nijmegen here, almost ready to order :) What are you going for (which size and design)?
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Well Tan Tan have confirmed to me that they actually manufacture this frame
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Can someone please enlighten me? If I want to paint the frame myself and need the visible carbon as a basis for the paint scheme, what do I order? Is UD matte the right one? Can you see the carbon here? Or do you need "raw carbon"? Unfortunately, I don't understand the differences. Is the "UD matte" selection just a transparent primer over the carbon?
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Can't speak to tantan particularly, but generally UD matte has a matte clearcoat, raw carbon is just that.
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Hi all, wanted to share I placed an order through Tan-Tan for a size 56 frame in the raw glossy finish. Excited to see how this will look, and I will share my build as it progresses. Building it up with the new SRAM red groupset so hoping for a sub 7kg build. Cheers!
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Well Tan Tan have confirmed to me that they actually manufacture this frame
Interestingly, Seraph's page now says "made in Tantan" as well...
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Hi all,
How the hell do you adjust the saddle inclination on this seat tube when the saddle does not have the hole ?
I cannot strenghthen the anterior bolt.
This kind of seatpost is the same on TanTan and Taiwaneisen and identical to SL8.
Thanks!
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I'm curious how these different manufacturers source the same frames if it's not coming from a single factory? Did they get the actual molds, 3D scanned a frame or built a mold from scratch using the CAD files?
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Hi all,
How the hell do you adjust the saddle inclination on this seat tube when the saddle does not have the hole ?
I cannot strenghthen the anterior bolt.
This kind of seatpost is the same on TanTan and Taiwaneisen and identical to SL8.
Thanks!
Your saddle doesnt have a cut out? You could buy/ make a super short allen key. They make stubby allen sockets, but that also might be too big.
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Thank you!
Nothe saddle does not have a cut out.
I will check if I can find an allen key super short
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Interestingly, Seraph's page now says "made in Tantan" as well...
seraph is tantan's brand
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Of course. But they didn't acknowledge manufacturing of the frame in house until recently. A month ago they were giving people answers like "that's confidential". Not that it matters in the end, other than they do a generally decent job with their stuff.
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Hi all,
How the hell do you adjust the saddle inclination on this seat tube when the saddle does not have the hole ?
I cannot strenghthen the anterior bolt.
This kind of seatpost is the same on TanTan and Taiwaneisen and identical to SL8.
Thanks!
Here's a video on how to do it on a real SL8. Not sure if you have the same bolts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr57XWk4FBY&t=592s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gr57XWk4FBY&t=592s)
Maybe my link won't show up. Here's what to add after youtube dot com: /watch?v=Gr57XWk4FBY&t=592s
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How lo
Hi all, wanted to share I placed an order through Tan-Tan for a size 56 frame in the raw glossy finish. Excited to see how this will look, and I will share my build as it progresses. Building it up with the new SRAM red groupset so hoping for a sub 7kg build. Cheers!
Do you know, when the expected shipping date of your new frame is? Or how long Seraph need, to paint your frame in raw glossy?
Can‘t wait to see the result, through I had the same idea ;-)
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How lo
Do you know, when the expected shipping date of your new frame is? Or how long Seraph need, to paint your frame in raw glossy?
Can‘t wait to see the result, through I had the same idea ;-)
Hey, they quoted me 30-45 days for delivery. I’ll see if they can send me photos before shipping.
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Tantan wrote to me "frame have stock raw finish . usually 10 days arrange shipping . shipping time about 15-25 days ."
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Nijmegen here, almost ready to order :) What are you going for (which size and design)?
I am not sure if the spcycle R088 will be a better fit, I am still using a Sensah Empire and the only electrical groupsets is a bit of a turnoff. I am looking into a Bianchi sort of blue with white accents
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First decent workout with the fake SL8 from Taiwaneisen.
My weight is 65kg and FTP at 220watt. Wheels Yoeleo 50mm, tubeless 28mm, 4bar.
- the riding is “smooth”: after 35km/h you can easily observe the bike “sailing”, it keeps the speed with minimum power.
This is even more visible when you ride into a group of cyclists at 35km/h or more or when you follow the draft of a car passing you
- the frame is quite stiff expecially in the seatpost area: you can clearly feel in the back while the fork and the front part of the frame is quite comfortable
- I was worried about the stiffness of the fork as it weights even less than the original. I tested in a 3km discend and it is good
So far so good
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First decent workout with the fake SL8 from Taiwaneisen.
My weight is 65kg and FTP at 220watt. Wheels Yoeleo 50mm, tubeless 28mm, 4bar.
- the riding is “smooth”: after 35km/h you can easily observe the bike “sailing”, it keeps the speed with minimum power.
This is even more visible when you ride into a group of cyclists at 35km/h or more or when you follow the draft of a car passing you
- the frame is quite stiff expecially in the seatpost area: you can clearly feel in the back while the fork and the front part of the frame is quite comfortable
- I was worried about the stiffness of the fork as it weights even less than the original. I tested in a 3km discend and it is good
So far so good
5/5 still alive
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Thank you!
Nothe saddle does not have a cut out.
I will check if I can find an allen key super short
Or replace the bolt with a hex bolt and tighten it with a spanner.
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Or replace the bolt with a hex bolt and tighten it with a spanner.
That makes the most sense. I have a topper that is set up that way from factory for that reason.
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I'm about to order to Germany (Munich).
In case someone wants to pair up to split shipping fees, feel free to contact me.
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First decent workout with the fake SL8 from Taiwaneisen.
My weight is 65kg and FTP at 220watt. Wheels Yoeleo 50mm, tubeless 28mm, 4bar.
- the riding is “smooth”: after 35km/h you can easily observe the bike “sailing”, it keeps the speed with minimum power.
This is even more visible when you ride into a group of cyclists at 35km/h or more or when you follow the draft of a car passing you
- the frame is quite stiff expecially in the seatpost area: you can clearly feel in the back while the fork and the front part of the frame is quite comfortable
- I was worried about the stiffness of the fork as it weights even less than the original. I tested in a 3km discend and it is good
So far so good
I recommend putting this somewhere else, like I said before. This is not the same bike or frame.
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I'm about to order to Germany (Munich).
In case someone wants to pair up to split shipping fees, feel free to contact me.
I am up near Frankfurt. Just getting a frame or complete?
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I recommend putting this somewhere else, like I said before. This is not the same bike or frame.
Instead of acting as a moderator, please, buy a frame, mount components, ride and test it, post some photos and share your feedback.
The frame are the same, TanTan has just changed the headset, is it so difficult to understand ?
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Instead of acting as a moderator, please, buy a frame, mount components, ride and test it, post some photos and share your feedback.
The frame are the same, TanTan has just changed the headset, is it so difficult to understand ?
So it isn't the same then. This thread is specifically for "the same frame" from tantan/seraph.
There are other generic SL8 threads and as a bonus it won't confuse people.
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The frames might use the same mold, but they are not the same. They aren't even the same if they are in fact produced in the same factory. Finish, accessories and most importantly QC can be quite a bit different. TanTan has a reputation to lose, after all.
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I am up near Frankfurt. Just getting a frame or complete?
Me too ;D how do you say Westerwald in English?
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The frames might use the same mold, but they are not the same. They aren't even the same if they are in fact produced in the same factory. Finish, accessories and most importantly QC can be quite a bit different. TanTan has a reputation to lose, after all.
Thankyou, all of this!
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I’ve been following this thread with great interest, and as an owner of a genuine S-Works SL8, I have to admit that the price of these counterfeit frames is tempting. However, at the end of the day, it's still a counterfeit. I recently watched the GCN video on YouTube about fake products, where they spoke with the person at Specialized who handles counterfeit goods. After that, it really made buying one a hard "no" for me.
I get that bike prices are now ridiculously high, and honestly, if I could ride a motorbike, I could get a Ducati for the same price! But if we keep buying into this, the prices will just keep climbing. We've already seen Chinese brands slowly following suit, and it won't be long before we're looking at £3k Chinese frames or even £1,500 open molds.
You can try to justify it, but these counterfeit manufacturers are driven by one thing only: money. They have little to no regard for warranties (which are often just a marketing tool), poor customer service, or rider safety. If you have an accident on one of these bikes and something fails, good luck getting any kind of support. At least with real brands, there’s some accountability.
Additionally, these manufacturers often support poor working conditions, and in some cases, possibly even underage labor. These companies can be unscrupulous.
If you're after quality, you're probably better off going with reputable Chinese brands or considering open molds.
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I’ve been following this thread with great interest, and as an owner of a genuine S-Works SL8, I have to admit that the price of these counterfeit frames is tempting. However, at the end of the day, it's still a counterfeit. I recently watched the GCN video on YouTube about fake products, where they spoke with the person at Specialized who handles counterfeit goods. After that, it really made buying one a hard "no" for me.
I get that bike prices are now ridiculously high, and honestly, if I could ride a motorbike, I could get a Ducati for the same price! But if we keep buying into this, the prices will just keep climbing. We've already seen Chinese brands slowly following suit, and it won't be long before we're looking at £3k Chinese frames or even £1,500 open molds.
You can try to justify it, but these counterfeit manufacturers are driven by one thing only: money. They have little to no regard for warranties (which are often just a marketing tool), poor customer service, or rider safety. If you have an accident on one of these bikes and something fails, good luck getting any kind of support. At least with real brands, there’s some accountability.
Additionally, these manufacturers often support poor working conditions, and in some cases, possibly even underage labor. These companies can be unscrupulous.
If you're after quality, you're probably better off going with reputable Chinese brands or considering open molds.
How many no brand frames have you owned and used?
Which supplier did you buy from?
How did you choose the supplier?
What are the conditions of the workers in the factories that produce for specialized?
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Hello everyone. First of all, the X68 that I have assembled for my friend in size 52 without pedals has weighed 7.2kg with 50 profile rims and mounted on Ultegra Di2. The saddle is a Bontrager (quite heavy). After the first rides, my friend is delighted with the behaviour of the bike. It feels rigid and fast on the flat and quite comfortable and safe on the descents. I will soon send more photos and the list of costs for the assembly in general.
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How many no brand frames have you owned and used? None
Which supplier did you buy from? None
How did you choose the supplier? None but what due diligence can you carry out really from reading online reviews None as they are merely opinion based with no real facts
What are the conditions of the workers in the factories that produce for specialized? well i would like to think and an educated guess are the conditions are what you would expect from a brand like specialized as you have to remember reputation is everything.
So answer these questions for me yourself?
Most counterfeit goods bought are generally in tandem with organised crime its generally a given in some cases but obviously not all
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Pretty disappointed with my order at Seraph right now.
Ordered just before Christmas and they said, the frame would be sent before CNY. Then they said it'll take til mid of february and i am still waiting for the confirmation that the frame is sent
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Pretty disappointed with my order at Seraph right now.
Ordered just before Christmas and they said, the frame would be sent before CNY. Then they said it'll take til mid of february and i am still waiting for the confirmation that the frame is sent
Yeah, my complete build was paid for on 1/29 but nothing yet. Looks like its going to be at least 60 days from order to delivery.
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Hi there,
wanted to give a short update on the bike. Riding quality is great, as I said before it is a whole different story to a Votec VRC Pro. If it is anywhere near an S-Works I can't tell. However, I'm more than happy.
Couple of things I want to mention:
1. The rear bolt on the seat post was mounted incorrectly from factory and on the pictures of TanTan. Please mount it the way Specialized is telling you in there manual for the SL8. 3nm on the Front bolt and 6nm at the rear bolt.
2. Save your money and don't buy the computer mount from TanTan. The computer mount is cheap ABS plastic and the angle is not good. It's to steep! I got this one instead:https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808076328828.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.41.3b825c5fNkqyhL&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt (https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256808076328828.html?spm=a2g0o.order_list.order_list_main.41.3b825c5fNkqyhL&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt)
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How many no brand frames have you owned and used? None
Which supplier did you buy from? None
How did you choose the supplier? None but what due diligence can you carry out really from reading online reviews None as they are merely opinion based with no real facts
What are the conditions of the workers in the factories that produce for specialized? well i would like to think and an educated guess are the conditions are what you would expect from a brand like specialized as you have to remember reputation is everything.
So answer these questions for me yourself?
Most counterfeit goods bought are generally in tandem with organised crime its generally a given in some cases but obviously not all
By your logic, when Zara makes a perfect imitation of a Louis Vuitton without the branding, Zara would be doing counterfeiting and would finance organized crime? In a way, without going into politics, we could argue that we are financing China by buying a frame there, but then it would apply to Specialized as well?
But more positively, what would convince you that TanTan is a genuine frame builder, that people are making genuine review based of “facts”? Are you setting the bar to seeing and testing one yourself?
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I'm new to the forum and to the whole chinese cycling world, please take this into consideration.
I was going through the messages on this thread and similar ones and noticed that the safety aspect of buying those "heavily inspired" bikes (or straight up clones) isn't discussed much. Are those Seraph/TanTan clones really safe to ride?
And maybe a bit off-topic, but are there good value for money chinese brands that don't bother about copying frames (do their own or open molds), but are solid and can be trusted regarding quality and safety? I know about the ones such as Tavelo, Seka, Yoeleo, Winspace and etc, but those seem to be a bit "pricey" already
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You should make a new thread, and we will answer you there.
But tldr; TanTan is safe.
Light Carbon and Yishun are great, Velobuild has many users and no one died, Carbonda, Hongfu, ICan are other good brands. Check Youtube for more info.
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Dangerous frames should mostly be a thing of the past. First off, modern production methods make it harder to fuck up during the layup process. And unlike in the past, when factories needed to have layup schedules provided to them to get the best results, the factories have their own engineers with just as much expertise.
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How many no brand frames have you owned and used? None
Which supplier did you buy from? None
How did you choose the supplier? None but what due diligence can you carry out really from reading online reviews None as they are merely opinion based with no real facts
What are the conditions of the workers in the factories that produce for specialized? well i would like to think and an educated guess are the conditions are what you would expect from a brand like specialized as you have to remember reputation is everything.
So answer these questions for me yourself?
Most counterfeit goods bought are generally in tandem with organised crime its generally a given in some cases but obviously not all
Specialized literally has workers striking saying they weren't paid/worked in horrible conditions.
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I'm new to the forum and to the whole chinese cycling world, please take this into consideration.
I was going through the messages on this thread and similar ones and noticed that the safety aspect of buying those "heavily inspired" bikes (or straight up clones) isn't discussed much. Are those Seraph/TanTan clones really safe to ride?
And maybe a bit off-topic, but are there good value for money chinese brands that don't bother about copying frames (do their own or open molds), but are solid and can be trusted regarding quality and safety? I know about the ones such as Tavelo, Seka, Yoeleo, Winspace and etc, but those seem to be a bit "pricey" already
The book "factfulness" should be read in schools. It reminds us that things move on, whether we pay attention to it or not. China used to be very poor and unskilled. Now you can't count the interviews of very switched on people who point to China no longer 1. having cheap labor 2. only knowing to copy 3. only making crap (think Apple CEO, Uber CEO, Microsoft CEO, and so on).
You can also look at the case of gopro vs DJI & Insta360. Gopro (USA) is as good as dead, and failed on multiple fronts (drones, remaining the GOAT of action cameras). DJI & Insta360 (China) are leading the way now, doing both the production and, importantly, the innovation.
From that, you will find crap made in China, but you will also find the high end. This forum is about identifying the good factories from the bad ones.
Yes, Tantan is safe, but no, they're not perfect (lots of QC problems reported here). To be fair, they are a big animal churning out a lot of frames, so statistically, maybe we should expect a high number of duds, assuming a constant dud rate across the industry.
Most factories do NOT produce copies / fakes. I ride an open mould, for eg (Long teng 268, i posted about it many times). Also, because of aero design & UCI rules, frames tend to look alike now more than a few years back though.
Long teng, Speeder, xiamen carbon speed, velobuild are names i'd recommend. I wouldn't buy from Winow for various reasons.
And to be sure, paying more is absolutely no guarantee of getting more for your money. A lot of chinese pseudo brands are selling for 1k what you can get from another one for 500, minus the paint job. Often, you will find, unsurprisingly, that the "brands" promoted on youtube are the worst value (yoeleo is one perfect example of a 500 frame sold for 1000 because of the marketing / branding / referral codes).
This forum is truly a great resource.
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First Test Rides with the Tantan TT X 68 – Clipless Pedals, Comfort & Di2 Shifting
Hey everyone,
I’ve done two test rides on my new Tantan TT X 68, each around 30 kilometers. Here are my first impressions:
First Ride:
The goal was to get comfortable with the bike, especially since it’s my first time riding with Shimano SPD-SL (blue) clipless pedals.
I rode at a relaxed pace, did a few sprints, and tested the gear shifting.
Tire pressure was around 3.5 bar, and the ride was extremely comfortable.
Shifting issue (Shimano Di2 105): I had some trouble shifting to the highest cog – maybe I pressed the wrong buttons. Solution: I reprogrammed the button layout in the app → now the shifting works perfectly!
Second Ride:
I felt much more confident with the clipless pedals.
Tracked the ride with the Adidas Running App.
Tire pressure this time was 6.5 bar, still comfortable.
I’m very cautious in corners, as I want to avoid any crashes – especially with clipless pedals, it’s something new for me.
The first 15 km didn’t feel much faster than usual.
Pace: about 2:00 min/km (~30 km/h), estimated Zone 3 (FTP).
I have to push myself, but I can maintain the pace for a long time as long as I’m well-rested.
On the way back: After 15 km, a random cyclist appeared, and I was able to draft behind them.
Speed test: We held a pace of 1:45 min/km for about 2 km, and I was able to keep up very easily – even while chewing gum!
Comparison to the ROSE Backroad GRX810 EQ Carbon:
The Tantan TT X 68 feels significantly lighter and is a bit faster, especially in sprints – likely due to the clipless pedals and the overall sportier setup.
Design: The Tantan looks way better to me and has a very modern and sleek appearance. It stands out massively – and in a positive way! I’ve already gotten several looks and compliments for it.
Shifting: The electronic Di2 shifting makes the Tantan feel smoother and faster.
ROSE Backroad: My ROSE Backroad is definitely more of an all-rounder bike – with mudguards, a durable frame, and more suited for longer, more relaxed rides. I’d say the ROSE is better for versatile touring, while the Tantan focuses on a more sporty approach.
Opinion from the Bike Shop:
I also got the opinion of a guy at a bike shop. When he looked at the Tantan TT X 68, you could see that it really put a big grin on his face. I think that says it all.
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My beef with this is less about the counterfeiting and more about the laziness. Id be much more interested in this if it WASN'T an SL8 clone. Aero front/downtube, thin horizontal top tube, round seatpost, dropped seatstays, threaded BB. A real "do it all" bike with aero, comfort and low weight. I think with optimization they could get that frame unpainted down under 800g. Im tired of the proprietary seatposts and clones. I think Tan Tan, Velobuild etc need to start leaning more into originality.
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First Test Rides with the Tantan TT X 68 – Clipless Pedals, Comfort & Di2 Shifting
I’ve done two test rides on my new Tantan TT X 68, each around 30 kilometers.
Glad you like your new steed! FYI, your saddle looks like it's tilting down, you'll probably be more comfortable if it's exactly flat.
And if you start riding a fair bit, know that if you switch to good tyres (either tubeless or latex or TPU, not butyl), your ride will be transformed further for the better, the gold standard being the conti GP5000. On whatever bike i build for me or friends, such tyres are a starting point, because i've experienced how big of a difference they make, and unless you're commuting or riding horrendous roads where you need puncture protection, money is well spent on good tyres. And put 28C at the front and 30C at the back, if not 32C ;)
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First Test Rides with the Tantan TT X 68 – Clipless Pedals, Comfort & Di2 Shifting
Hey everyone,
I’ve done two test rides on my new Tantan TT X 68, each around 30 kilometers. Here are my first impressions:
First Ride:
The goal was to get comfortable with the bike, especially since it’s my first time riding with Shimano SPD-SL (blue) clipless pedals.
I rode at a relaxed pace, did a few sprints, and tested the gear shifting.
Tire pressure was around 3.5 bar, and the ride was extremely comfortable.
Shifting issue (Shimano Di2 105): I had some trouble shifting to the highest cog – maybe I pressed the wrong buttons. Solution: I reprogrammed the button layout in the app → now the shifting works perfectly!
Second Ride:
I felt much more confident with the clipless pedals.
Tracked the ride with the Adidas Running App.
Tire pressure this time was 6.5 bar, still comfortable.
I’m very cautious in corners, as I want to avoid any crashes – especially with clipless pedals, it’s something new for me.
The first 15 km didn’t feel much faster than usual.
Pace: about 2:00 min/km (~30 km/h), estimated Zone 3 (FTP).
I have to push myself, but I can maintain the pace for a long time as long as I’m well-rested.
On the way back: After 15 km, a random cyclist appeared, and I was able to draft behind them.
Speed test: We held a pace of 1:45 min/km for about 2 km, and I was able to keep up very easily – even while chewing gum!
Comparison to the ROSE Backroad GRX810 EQ Carbon:
The Tantan TT X 68 feels significantly lighter and is a bit faster, especially in sprints – likely due to the clipless pedals and the overall sportier setup.
Design: The Tantan looks way better to me and has a very modern and sleek appearance. It stands out massively – and in a positive way! I’ve already gotten several looks and compliments for it.
Shifting: The electronic Di2 shifting makes the Tantan feel smoother and faster.
ROSE Backroad: My ROSE Backroad is definitely more of an all-rounder bike – with mudguards, a durable frame, and more suited for longer, more relaxed rides. I’d say the ROSE is better for versatile touring, while the Tantan focuses on a more sporty approach.
Opinion from the Bike Shop:
I also got the opinion of a guy at a bike shop. When he looked at the Tantan TT X 68, you could see that it really put a big grin on his face. I think that says it all.
Thanks for sharing your experience of the first rides!
Bike looks great, especially your wavy wheelset. From which brand or website do you have it?
And do you know the overall weight of your x68? Looks like size 54 isn‘t it?
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more infos are at page 8 and 11
look for my posts
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https://www.seraphbikes.com/Superlight-Disc-Road-Bike-Frame-TT-X68-BSA-Bottom-Bracket-Max-Tire-70028C-With-Integrated-Handlebar-p5836624.html (https://www.seraphbikes.com/Superlight-Disc-Road-Bike-Frame-TT-X68-BSA-Bottom-Bracket-Max-Tire-70028C-With-Integrated-Handlebar-p5836624.html)
A far better alternative than buying a bottom bracket exploding fake SL8 in my opinion. Identical geometry of course. Maybe I should get one to compare to my actual Tarmac SL8
Seraph is the "brand" counterpart to Tantan if I'm not mistaken...
EDIT: Even the geometry chart is using a photo of a frame with an SL7 Tarmac stem and spacers ;D
Yo ho ho Pat dude, really loving your SL8 Pro setup bro with the Speedy Decals looking BLANG BLANG! how are they holding on till date bro? the decals? can you tell if they are really high quality?
And did you try reaching out to Seraph to give you out a frame to review? I bet their sales would skyrocket if you'd post one huh or even direct from the guys over at TanTan cycling if they'll send you out one eh?
Would that impact your relationship will your local Specialized Dealer or they would just go like meh?
A sick video it would be if you could be able to compare it to your current SL8 Pro setup!
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40 days from payment and not shipped...
I recognize the 10 day holiday, but that was 15 days post payment.
I'd be less concerned if my request for a status update has gone 36 hrs without a response.
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40 days from payment and not shipped...
I recognize the 10 day holiday, but that was 15 days post payment.
I'd be less concerned if my request for a status update has gone 36 hrs without a response.
Same here, really disappointed at this point with the support from Seraph...
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Same here, really disappointed at this point with the support from Seraph...
Vivian is answering in real-time by whatsapp
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Yo ho ho Pat dude, really loving your SL8 Pro setup bro with the Speedy Decals looking BLANG BLANG! how are they holding on till date bro? the decals? can you tell if they are really high quality?
And did you try reaching out to Seraph to give you out a frame to review? I bet their sales would skyrocket if you'd post one huh or even direct from the guys over at TanTan cycling if they'll send you out one eh?
Would that impact your relationship will your local Specialized Dealer or they would just go like meh?
A sick video it would be if you could be able to compare it to your current SL8 Pro setup!
Yo yo! The Speedy Decals are holding up swell. Whenever I wash or wipe down my SL8 I make sure not to really scrub near the decals.
I haven't tried to contact TanTan/Seraph for an X68 since I just very recently finished building their GR201 gravel frame. Which is awesome.
My opinion on the X68 in general tends to change by the week. It would make for a popular, albeit polarizing, video. However I just know deep down that I wouldn't give it the time and effort it deserves. Maybe later in the spring.
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Yo yo! The Speedy Decals are holding up swell. Whenever I wash or wipe down my SL8 I make sure not to really scrub near the decals.
I haven't tried to contact TanTan/Seraph for an X68 since I just very recently finished building their GR201 gravel frame. Which is awesome.
My opinion on the X68 in general tends to change by the week. It would make for a popular, albeit polarizing, video. However I just know deep down that I wouldn't give it the time and effort it deserves. Maybe later in the spring.
I'm torn on this frame, especially after my rant about counterfeits earlier. As an owner of a genuine SL8, it's hard to justify buying this, even though the price and reviews have been very positive. A detailed review and comparison against the real deal by your good self! would definitely help me decide, as I'm considering a budget build to replace my Winspace SL2.0 frame and Hyper wheels, which aren't getting any love at the moment. I already have Ultegra Di2, and the new XM Carbon Speed T1100 wheels look amazing—I even emailed Peter about them. Now, I just need a frame, and I'm stuck choosing between an open-mold/copy, a branded Chinese frame, or waiting for Quick Pro Area to release the ER:ONE next month. There is just so much choice t the moment its makes my head spin!
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I will place my order this weekend.
Bike will be comopleted with Ultegra Di2, SRAM Red E1 crank, Sigeyi Axo powermeter, EXS handlerbar and a 50mm carbon spoke wheelset from Peter.
Expect the wheight around 6,8kg.
Hopefully the frame will be just as stiff as my SWORKS SL6
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I will place my order this weekend.
Bike will be comopleted with Ultegra Di2, SRAM Red E1 crank, Sigeyi Axo powermeter, EXS handlerbar and a 50mm carbon spoke wheelset from Peter.
Expect the wheight around 6,8kg.
Hopefully the frame will be just as stiff as my SWORKS SL6
Nice be interesting to see you review. I have a Cybrei crank on my SL8 but have asked Peter a bit more on there carbon crank as well
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I got the SRAM RED E1 crank für 270$ new coming 310g, no-brainer.
The complete unit with powermeter and Shimano chainrings comes at 560g.
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Any opinions from those who have integrated handlebars like those on the X68 that have a fixed angle? Is it not too limiting? Obviously it comes down to how the rest of the bike fits as well and so I'm guessing opinions are mixed.
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Any opinions from those who have integrated handlebars like those on the X68 that have a fixed angle? Is it not too limiting? Obviously it comes down to how the rest of the bike fits as well and so I'm guessing opinions are mixed.
Also curious about this or if anyone knows some integrated bar/stem setups without the huge drops like -10 degrees etc. Im running black Inc ones with -6 degree which is a big change going from a +6.
But yes thats the limiting factor of the integrated bar/stem, you're set in that ecosystem with no tweaking.
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What have all you guys who have a frame paid? Or what have you been quoted?
Been quoted UD matte black or gloss
$589usd
$150 postag inc taxes
5% PayPal
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What have all you guys who have a frame paid? Or what have you been quoted?
Been quoted UD matte black or gloss
$589usd
$150 postag inc taxes
5% PayPal
Same!
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What have all you guys who have a frame paid? Or what have you been quoted?
Been quoted UD matte black or gloss
$589usd
$150 postag inc taxes
5% PayPal
Same price. I think they are out of stock now. I ordered the frame a week ago
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Vivian is answering in real-time by whatsapp
I'm still waiting for any replies... At this point I'm just disapointed that not a single thing has been shipped after 2 months...
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I have been in contact with them a couple of times, paid my frame on the 16th of January and when i asked them abotu ETA they said that the frame should be finished around 25th of February.
I was chatting with them couple of times since then and i got a message yesterday that the frame should be done next week and they will ship it. I wasn't expecting much of a support or communication from them but i think being a week or two late on this is okayish in the end. I'll update the post when they ship it out.
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Same price. I think they are out of stock now. I ordered the frame a week ago
Vivian at Tan tan has quoted shipping in 15-20 days with shipping to UK 10-18 days
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Hi,
I got an invoice of TanTan for this frame. Paypal fee are 5%, with alipay there is no fee. Addidionally the exchange rate at paypal is also very bad. How did you guys paid your frame at TanTan?
Have someone experience with wise?
Thanks!
BR Markus
How did you end up paying? Do they charge you before making the frame (I'm assuming it's before) or after it's complete?
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How did you end up paying? Do they charge you before making the frame (I'm assuming it's before) or after it's complete?
You pay up front.
They may accept bank transfer which would be better.
Or maybe a credit card payment link.
But you get some sort of protection with paypal
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I have been in contact with them a couple of times, paid my frame on the 16th of January and when i asked them abotu ETA they said that the frame should be finished around 25th of February.
I was chatting with them couple of times since then and i got a message yesterday that the frame should be done next week and they will ship it. I wasn't expecting much of a support or communication from them but i think being a week or two late on this is okayish in the end. I'll update the post when they ship it out.
Paid for mine 1/13 and finally got a reply yesterday that "its still in paint". Given that its stock white, I'm a little disappointed. Oh well. Either they have had more demand than expected or supply issues.
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Paid for mine 1/13 and finally got a reply yesterday that "its still in paint". Given that its stock white, I'm a little disappointed. Oh well. Either they have had more demand than expected or supply issues.
You think they keep stock?!
They make to order and they still have a backlog still due to Chinese New Year which they are still catching up on.
I would say 8-10 weeks for a frame at the moment
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I'm torn on this frame, especially after my rant about counterfeits earlier. As an owner of a genuine SL8, it's hard to justify buying this, even though the price and reviews have been very positive. A detailed review and comparison against the real deal by your good self! would definitely help me decide, as I'm considering a budget build to replace my Winspace SL2.0 frame and Hyper wheels, which aren't getting any love at the moment. I already have Ultegra Di2, and the new XM Carbon Speed T1100 wheels look amazing—I even emailed Peter about them. Now, I just need a frame, and I'm stuck choosing between an open-mold/copy, a branded Chinese frame, or waiting for Quick Pro Area to release the ER:ONE next month. There is just so much choice t the moment its makes my head spin!
If I had to pick a "do it all" Chinese frameset right now it would be the SLC 3.0. Seems like it takes everything I like about the SL8, then drops the weight and runs a conventional round seatpost. I just finished a build but I wish I had gone with the SLC. I think it came out after I ordered my frame. Worth a look
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If I had to pick a "do it all" Chinese frameset right now it would be the SLC 3.0. Seems like it takes everything I like about the SL8, then drops the weight and runs a conventional round seatpost. I just finished a build but I wish I had gone with the SLC. I think it came out after I ordered my frame. Worth a look
Hmmm, I’ve considered the SLC3 as a potential replacement for the SLC2 frame I currently have. I can actually get Winspace products at trade price and i I’ve bought their wheels, but I tend to buy less from them now. Other companies like XM Carbon Speed offer wheels that are cheaper and better specced, and honestly, I’m not keen on the aesthetics of Winspace frames.
What frame was your build?
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You think they keep stock?!
They make to order and they still have a backlog still due to Chinese New Year which they are still catching up on.
I would say 8-10 weeks for a frame at the moment
Vivian at Tan tan has quoted shipping in 15-20 days with shipping to UK 10-18 days
Hmm. So your suggesting that they can ship a matt or gloss frame in 2-3 weeks but 8-10 for one that's painted in the stock white?
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Hmmm, I’ve considered the SLC3 as a potential replacement for the SLC2 frame I currently have. I can actually get Winspace products at trade price and i I’ve bought their wheels, but I tend to buy less from them now. Other companies like XM Carbon Speed offer wheels that are cheaper and better specced, and honestly, I’m not keen on the aesthetics of Winspace frames.
What frame was your build?
I built a TanTan FM639; basically a Cervelo R5 clone. I like it, but the SLC 3.0 is just better aero and weight wise. If it had a threaded BB it would be perfect.
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Hmm. So your suggesting that they can ship a matt or gloss frame in 2-3 weeks but 8-10 for one that's painted in the stock white?
I don’t think they keep stock at all and manufacturer on order and give out general time frames for delivery.
I think wait times are a lottery
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I don’t think they keep stock at all and manufacturer on order and give out general time frames for delivery.
I think wait times are a lottery
Hmm not sure.
I’ve been trying to order a TT-X65 in size 56, they keep saying that it’s a new frame and not in stock in that size yet. However, they are suggesting me to buy a x68 instead as these are in stock in all sizes.
Or, they are trying to get me to buy a more expensive/profitable frame?
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Hmm not sure.
I’ve been trying to order a TT-X65 in size 56, they keep saying that it’s a new frame and not in stock in that size yet. However, they are suggesting me to buy a x68 instead as these are in stock in all sizes.
Or, they are trying to get me to buy a more expensive/profitable frame?
I asked this week about size 54 and they told me they were out of stock.
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I asked this week about size 54 and they told me they were out of stock.
Interesting, I’ll ask for the availability on 54 next week, see if I get the same response.
There’s always a risk of something getting lost in translation. :)
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From what I have been able to find out, the bottleneck is in the painting area. They are very behind there.
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Yeah. Had I known I would have done something different...I went with the pearl white as a) its nice b) its neutral and c) all their promos featured it so I assumed it was a "stock" color.
My concern is that I'm on borrowed time vis a vis the tariff situation, and if it changes it'll be a $700 or so price increase.
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My bike is out of paint as of today, so figure around a little over a month allowing for the holiday break.
From the video the paint looks great and bb and disc mounts seem nicely faced.
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More fotos!!! It’s a very nice Bike
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I am extremely tempted to buy one as a winter and race bike for when its dangerous. Is the di2 junction box holder in the seatpost? I would slap a ultegra di2 11sp group on it.
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Any new reviews please ?
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Just got info that my frame is finised and shipped out. I ordered/paid mine on the 16th of January. Also got some pics from the Tantan guys before they packed and shiped it out. :)
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Question, does the lowest spacer/headsetcap/whateverthename is, sit flush after finishing the build? The gap/size doesnt really seem to fit the headtube/toptube-intersection.
By the way, loving the purple matte frame! Haven't seen that one before.
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Just got info that my frame is finised and shipped out. I ordered/paid mine on the 16th of January. Also got some pics from the Tantan guys before they packed and shiped it out. :)
So far this has been the only paint job I've seen on the X68 that would make me reconsider not ordering raw paintless carbon.
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Question, does the lowest spacer/headsetcap/whateverthename is, sit flush after finishing the build? The gap/size doesnt really seem to fit the headtube/toptube-intersection.
By the way, loving the purple matte frame! Haven't seen that one before.
So far this has been the only paint job I've seen on the X68 that would make me reconsider not ordering raw paintless carbon.
Thank you, guys! I saw a similar color on one of Tantan's frames on Instagram and really liked it. It looks even better on the x68, and I'm quite looking forward to seeing it in the sun!
As for the gap, I'll see how it looks when I get it and finish the build, but it won't be that much better than what is in the picture now from all the other builds I've seen people post here. SL8 has that gap smaller, for sure.
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Looks great!
Is it purple matte? or which colour do they call it?
And yes, gap is less when compressed.
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Is that a 58cm?
First one i saw on this forum
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Yes the frame is 58, and the color is indeed purple matte finish. This is what i had in my PDF order confirmation from Tantan: YS9448 i also specified to them that i want this color in matte. I saw it on one other frame where it was named something purple chameleon on one of the instagram accounts of Tantan.
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Did the seller give you any weight for your size?
I am very interested in a x68 in size 58 myself. The proportions look good.
Curious to see your insights on stiffness: all tubes being longer it should be less stiff. yet a tantan x38 in 58 is very stiff i heard
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Did the seller give you any weight for your size?
I am very interested in a x68 in size 58 myself. The proportions look good.
Curious to see your insights on stiffness: all tubes being longer it should be less stiff. yet a tantan x38 in 58 is very stiff i heard
I didn't get any weight info from the seller, but I'll definitely weigh it and post it here when I get the frame. I also plan to take some pics/videos with the endoscope camera from inside the frame and will also put it here :)
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So far this has been the only paint job I've seen on the X68 that would make me reconsider not ordering raw paintless carbon.
I was about to order my X68 in raw carbon, but not seeing any other frames like that I opted for a boring black.
I'm looking forward to seeing some finish like this.
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Yes the frame is 58, and the color is indeed purple matte finish. This is what i had in my PDF order confirmation from Tantan: YS9448 and i saw it on one other frame where it was named something purple chameleon on one of the instagram accounts of Tantan.
Thanks for the color code, it looks amazing.
How tall are you? Did you check the size with the specialized chart?
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Thanks for the color code, it looks amazing.
How tall are you? Did you check the size with the specialized chart?
I'm 191cm, and I did get a bike fit before ordering it. We tried a couple of geometries on the Guru fit bike, and this geometry in size 58 was really close to my fit. Specialized chart suggests one size bigger for my height, I think.
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The Specialized fit tool is pretty good, but it doesn't really account for variations in drop/comfort. If you're flexible, you can go one size smaller, if not so, one size larger as the bar to saddle drop changes - more drop in the smaller size. I was between a 49 and 52, went with the 49 but it'll be on the edge of what I can ride at 65.
Don't have the bike yet; latest drama is that I ordered with a 11-34. They built with a 32. I said ok, just throw in a chain as I have a 34 but will likely need to resize. They respond, well, Wheeltop max is 32. Sent them a screenshot of the Wheeltop specs (max 36) but told them don't bother, I'll eat cassette and chain, just ship already.
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Btw is the derrailer hanger the same as the SL8 has?
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I am 181cm tall and I will buy size 58, as suggested by specialized calculator, because I have internal leg height of 93cm. I am disproportionate in physique.
I will order it soon
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Btw is the derrailer hanger the same as the SL8 has?
from what I've inspected, it does seem they are the same
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Can me also someone confirm that the computer mount is 100% the same as used by roval rapide cockpit so that it is compatible with the Magcad mount?
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Ordered my frame in 56, wonderling how this sheme will look like
(https://i.ibb.co/vx49PDCc/2025-03-13-11-31-54-x68-PT-7722-C-PT-871-C-1-pdf-Adobe-Acrobat-Pro-32-bit.png)
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Btw is the derrailer hanger the same as the SL8 has?
Yes. I swapped the stock hanger with an aliexpress direct mount hanger. The fit was perfect and I've had no issues.
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While we're on the parts swap subject, has anyone tried a seatpost swap to hylix or specialized? Thinking about zero offset, no idea if the tantan is dimensionally identical.
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Anyone got an idea how to get the expander out again ?
Mounted the expander, but I want to take it out because of adjusting the fork shaft length and yeah seems like the fucking expander won't come out.
I opened the 6mm screw and then the counter part fell into the frame... So I can't even screw the 6mm in again
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I'm 191cm, and I did get a bike fit before ordering it. We tried a couple of geometries on the Guru fit bike, and this geometry in size 58 was really close to my fit. Specialized chart suggests one size bigger for my height, I think.
thank you very much for the fedeback. I am thinking of doing a bike fit, seems to be the right time to do it before ordering the frame
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Yes. I swapped the stock hanger with an aliexpress direct mount hanger. The fit was perfect and I've had no issues.
Funny that when asking them directly they said no but apparently it is the same. Most likely they want to distance theirselfs as much as possible from the real SL8 for obvious reasons.
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Anyone got an idea how to get the expander out again ?
Mounted the expander, but I want to take it out because of adjusting the fork shaft length and yeah seems like the fucking expander won't come out.
I opened the 6mm screw and then the counter part fell into the frame... So I can't even screw the 6mm in again
Have you tried this ?
https://youtu.be/8wL_tqCrFSA
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Have you tried this ?
https://youtu.be/8wL_tqCrFSA
Don't see the video but yeah I got it out.
Will use another expander expander in the future
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What do you guys think about the full bike offer from tantan? At 2400 usd seems like an ok deal. Only downside I see is that the chainring is 50-34 only and 170mm crank.
http://www.tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=1174
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What do you guys think about the full bike offer from tantan? At 2400 usd seems like an ok deal. Only downside I see is that the chainring is 50-34 only and 170mm crank.
http://www.tantancycling.com/index.php?_m=mod_product&_a=view&p_id=1174
Depends how you feel about:
- the choice of parts (e.g. I'd want wider wheels, better tyres, shorter cranks that support a power meter, and bar size isn't stated - all of which make this an instant no)
- shipping costs (generally much higher for a full bike)
- additional duty costs (and the consequences are much higher if it's picked up by customs)
For those reasons I'm pretty unlikely to ever buy a full bike build direct from China - much easier for me to do it piece-by-piece, first to make sure I get all the parts I want first time around, but also to minimise shipping/duty costs (though this is very country dependent).
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I just sent them an email to see how customizable the full bike kit is. Mainly to see if they can build it with v3.0 er9 and what kind of crank that would include.
I am a bit concerned with the wheelset included. Quality I'm general and maybe too stiff with carbon spokes... Anyone here with experience with that wheelset?
I also asked if it could be a different color.
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Someone earlier in the thread ordered with those wheels.
Don't know why you'd want wider wheels, they're 21 internal, and 28, so perfect for 30-32. Reasonably light too at under 1400g.
The crank? Yeah, I don't like shimano cranks much due to the powermeter issue, but its likely the same to buy the group with or without, so sell it and do something else. I did a wheeltop build that comes with whatever cheap cranks they generally used knowing it was going to get binned.
You can choose bar width.
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The main draw to buying a complete bike from TanTan is they are held accountable in making sure caliper mounts, bottom bracket, and bearing cups are properly faced within spec.
That is of course assuming they inspect and align everything prior to shipping.
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The main draw to buying a complete bike from TanTan is they are held accountable in making sure caliper mounts, bottom bracket, and bearing cups are properly faced within spec.
That is of course assuming they inspect and align everything prior to shipping.
That's mostly why I did it that way. Also b/c wheeltop has a rep of being difficult to set up, figured it come to me most or all of the way there.
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That's mostly why I did it that way. Also b/c wheeltop has a rep of being difficult to set up, figured it come to me most or all of the way there.
So you bought a complete bike, but with wheeltop & different wheels? If that's the case, Can you share what wheels you got from them & final price ?
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I didn't buy "their" complete bike, I ordered one. I got crap wheels, just for the setup, and will sell locally cheap. They're the 50mm carbon but only 16 internal. I went to Peter (xmcarbonspeed) and bought a set of 50/65 26mm internal, t800. $650 plus shipping. Just over 1300g.
$2300 with carbon saddle. They don't offer a truly wide wheel, and while their 'wave' wheel is very nice for what it is, none of those "wave" wheels test great aerodynamically, although they do handle well in crosswinds. The latest really wide wheels seem to do ok in crosswinds as well, with the fastest and most stable seeming to settle in a range of 75% or so internal/external width.
I just didn't want to plumb the bike and set up the wheeltop, so figured I'd lose a few bucks on the wheelset and crank and have them do it.
Hoping to see the bike soon, its done but hasn't shipped, 60 days out from payment.
Peter is getting the wheels shipped in less than a week.
https://www.xmcarbonspeed.cc/products/carbon-speed-50mm-depth-26-mm-internal-width-disc-brake-gravel-bike-carbon-wheelset-700c-tubeless-compatible
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I didn't buy "their" complete bike, I ordered one. I got crap wheels, just for the setup, and will sell locally cheap. They're the 50mm carbon but only 16 internal. I went to Peter (xmcarbonspeed) and bought a set of 50/65 26mm internal, t800. $650 plus shipping. Just over 1300g.
$2300 with carbon saddle. They don't offer a truly wide wheel, and while their 'wave' wheel is very nice for what it is, none of those "wave" wheels test great aerodynamically, although they do handle well in crosswinds. The latest really wide wheels seem to do ok in crosswinds as well, with the fastest and most stable seeming to settle in a range of 75% or so internal/external width.
I just didn't want to plumb the bike and set up the wheeltop, so figured I'd lose a few bucks on the wheelset and crank and have them do it.
Hoping to see the bike soon, its done but hasn't shipped, 60 days out from payment.
Peter is getting the wheels shipped in less than a week.
https://www.xmcarbonspeed.cc/products/carbon-speed-50mm-depth-26-mm-internal-width-disc-brake-gravel-bike-carbon-wheelset-700c-tubeless-compatible
Which bike did you order? I think you mean a x68, not sure.
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Yes, x68
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Yes, x68
I talked to them about doing like you did with what FM301 frame. Have not pulled trigger yet.
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I didn't buy "their" complete bike, I ordered one. I got crap wheels, just for the setup, and will sell locally cheap. They're the 50mm carbon but only 16 internal. I went to Peter (xmcarbonspeed) and bought a set of 50/65 26mm internal, t800. $650 plus shipping. Just over 1300g.
$2300 with carbon saddle. They don't offer a truly wide wheel, and while their 'wave' wheel is very nice for what it is, none of those "wave" wheels test great aerodynamically, although they do handle well in crosswinds. The latest really wide wheels seem to do ok in crosswinds as well, with the fastest and most stable seeming to settle in a range of 75% or so internal/external width.
I just didn't want to plumb the bike and set up the wheeltop, so figured I'd lose a few bucks on the wheelset and crank and have them do it.
Hoping to see the bike soon, its done but hasn't shipped, 60 days out from payment.
Peter is getting the wheels shipped in less than a week.
https://www.xmcarbonspeed.cc/products/carbon-speed-50mm-depth-26-mm-internal-width-disc-brake-gravel-bike-carbon-wheelset-700c-tubeless-compatible
Did you buy a custom painted bike or stock black?
I also ordered now btw. All stock 54 frame, lets see. Should be lighter than my current Tarmac SL7 Pro.
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Painted, the pearl white shown in the video and photos.
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then I was also wondering if the bike accomodates really 140mm front rotors as stated on their website? The real SL8 supports only front 160mm, I would like to run 140mm though.
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I'm 191cm, and I did get a bike fit before ordering it. We tried a couple of geometries on the Guru fit bike, and this geometry in size 58 was really close to my fit. Specialized chart suggests one size bigger for my height, I think.
hi, did you received your bike?fits you well? I'm struggling with size choice... 56 or 58? my current bike settings and my anthropometry below.
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I went to Peter (xmcarbonspeed) and bought a set of 50/65 26mm internal, t800. plus shipping. Just over 1300g.
Does this fit inside the X68? In Patrick Lino 's real SL8 it fitted with 32mm GP5k. When i asked this exact question tantan's responds was "32mm clearance".
IDK if this is tantan's way to deny the resamblance to the SL8, or if the clearance is really different.
I was looking at this same exact combo so any feedback is welcome!
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hi, did you received your bike?fits you well? I'm struggling with size choice... 56 or 58? my current bike settings and my anthropometry below.
Not yet. It should arrive in 12 days or so. It was just shipped out a couple of days ago. As for the size, it's hard to say. I discussed sizing when doing the bike fit and went with the fitter's recommendation. From looking at your fit and mine, it's somewhat similar, so maybe the 58 size would also fit you, but then again, im not really that knowledgeable in this to recommend you anything :D
Reach to handlebar: 576
saddle setback: 90mm
drop from saddle to bars: 88mm
Also for the sl8 size 58 geometry i got recomended 90mm stem and 420mm width for the bars
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Does this fit inside the X68? In Patrick Lino 's real SL8 it fitted with 32mm GP5k. When i asked this exact question tantan's responds was "32mm clearance".
IDK if this is tantan's way to deny the resamblance to the SL8, or if the clearance is really different.
I was looking at this same exact combo so any feedback is welcome!
IDK, as I don't have the bike yet. But Patrick's video praising the wheels he has the same profile rim on an SL8. He's running 32's. I'll start with 30's. Check out his video at the 5 minute mark and following.
Patrick could tell you how it works. The bike has identical dimensions more or less. Specialized likewise says "32".
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then I was also wondering if the bike accomodates really 140mm front rotors as stated on their website? The real SL8 supports only front 160mm, I would like to run 140mm though.
Meanwhile i'm looking for 180 adaptors. How much do you weigh?
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Meanwhile i'm looking for 180 adaptors. How much do you weigh?
Around 65 kg, threshold at 330w :D I race a lot and certainly dont get dropped due to the 140 mm rotors I already use on my SL7. I would like to keep them for easy wheel swap.
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So not to whine like a beyoch, but I'm now 65 days from payment. Was told a week ago that my bike would ship. The latest is "The goods have been shipped, but we need to wait a few days for the new tracking number." Is this accurate? Does Tantan ship in such a way that there's no tracking for a few days?
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So not to whine like a beyoch, but I'm now 65 days from payment. Was told a week ago that my bike would ship. The latest is "The goods have been shipped, but we need to wait a few days for the new tracking number." Is this accurate? Does Tantan ship in such a way that there's no tracking for a few days?
Yeah it was the same for me. No update on tracking until 2 days before arrival.
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Hello and thanks to everybody sharing their experiences so far. I have two questions regarding the seatpost: Is there an offset? And what is the minimum insertion for the longer seatpost (380mm)? I tend to order a smaller frame, but that would require the offset and a long seatpost.
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Just got info that my frame is finised and shipped out. I ordered/paid mine on the 16th of January. Also got some pics from the Tantan guys before they packed and shiped it out. :)
Would be very interesting if you could say how easily the matte paint scratches
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I have observed that in size 56 the upper tube in the junction with the head tube is different from the original SL8. but it is exactly like the Eissen copy.
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photos photo photos fellas! must be some of you with some deliveries!
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attached the mia in size 56.
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attached the mia in size 56.
Thanks Davidhe23
Where did you buy from? im assuming TanTan?
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Thanks Davidhe23
Where did you buy from? I'm assuming TanTan?
Yes, it's the version of Seraph, but I'm almost certain they use the framework of other manufacturers. They all bring the defect that doesn't grow the top tube into higher sizes, and my size 56 looks very similar to the original in size 58.
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So, I finally got my frame in today.
Here are some pictures of me unpacking it and checking it out with an endoscope camera.
These are not the best quality pictures, but you can see that everything inside the frame is really neat, with no sharp edges or anything else.
I will be building the bike with my friend this Saturday, and I will post some more pictures with the weights of the stuff and so on.
My frame is size 58.
All weights of the individual parts are:
Frame - 971,8g
Fork - 360,03g
Seatpost - 163,5g
Cockpit - 357,4g
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ECYjE7t443kKLPjBBGKWUSLbhGIo3fcP?usp=sharing
All of the pictures are in this google drive folder.. I couldn’t upload any phots here and if i did it broke the whole topic page returning 500 error :/
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So, I finally got my frame in today.
Here are some pictures of me unpacking it and checking it out with an endoscope camera.
These are not the best quality pictures, but you can see that everything inside the frame is really neat, with no sharp edges or anything else.
I will be building the bike with my friend this Saturday, and I will post some more pictures with the weights of the stuff and so on.
My frame is size 58.
All weights of the individual parts are:
Frame - 971,8g
Fork - 360,03g
Seatpost - 163,5g
Cockpit - 357,4g
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1ECYjE7t443kKLPjBBGKWUSLbhGIo3fcP?usp=sharing
All of the pictures are in this google drive folder.. I couldn’t upload any phots here and if i did it broke the whole topic page returning 500 error :/
Nice colour dovh.
Same they dont face the BB or the brake calliper mounts but for the price I suppose you can do that yourself!
Anyone else review or photos?
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Anyone else having problems with the battery holder?
It prevents the seat post from going in all the way and it gets stuck when taking out the seat post which says to me that the clamping from the holder to the seat post is absolutely shit.
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Anyone else having problems with the battery holder?
It prevents the seat post from going in all the way and it gets stuck when taking out the seat post which says to me that the clamping from the holder to the seat post is absolutely shit.
You can have a look at this type B battery holder :
https://a.aliexpress.com/_EIdKITI
It is expensive for what it is but it works perfectly on a SL8 seatpost. However, I am not sure how it will fit for the x68 seatpost.
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Received a box today via dhl with the derailleurs and chain. Was told in advance this was due to the batteries. No idea if they paired and tuned them prior to shipment, we'll see.
But the bike...is stuck for 3 days in Shanghai, "export customs retention/ to be verified". I'm hoping this isn't going to turn into another week delay. Day 66 and counting.
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The main draw to buying a complete bike from TanTan is they are held accountable in making sure caliper mounts, bottom bracket, and bearing cups are properly faced within spec.
That is of course assuming they inspect and align everything prior to shipping.
You seriously need to do a review on this against your genuine SL8!
Be great to see s side by side comparison including internals etc
Please be guinea pig lol
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Here is my final take on all of this:
1. One needs to ask themself why they actually want this frame design instead of buying a genuine SL8. Like really...why do customers want an SL8 budget alternative? Pricepoint? The design itself? Inherent brand cache? Aero testing? Geometry? Only the customer can answer this. Really no wrong answers here...
2. However, if quality control is a concern, get the TanTan version and call it a day. Serge_K has already provided a comprehensive list of legitimate reasons to avoid buying fakes.
3. Or buy a Quick-Pro AR-One or Tavelo Arow if you truly have the budget for a performance bike. Or go the Speeder route.
4. My VeloBuild 168 (SL7 clone) and TanTan X38 (Scott Foil clone), respectively, were pretty uninspiring to ride. The VB-168 was a noodle when pushing the watts. The X38 on the other hand was stiff in all the wrong areas causing a constant disruptive riding experience.
5. Past trends dictate future trends so I don't expect a $600 TanTan frame to magically perform like the real deal. Especially when the other Western brands I've reviewed don't really come close to riding the characteristics of the SL8 either.
6. The Tarmac SL8 is a delicate balance of ultra comfort, super lightweight, and still being stiff enough. Personally I prefer frames with more perceived stiffness and road feedback/communication. Even if Specialized added 300g to the frame weight to achieve this. And I don't love the look of the SL8. But it is the benchmark bike I get asked about the most. It's a fantastic climber and handles crosswinds better than any bike I've tested.
Specialized made compromises by opting for a tiny bottom bracket section on the SL8 in the name of comfort. Like the Aethos. So just imagine how those same compromises might be realized on a $600 frame. TanTan or fake.
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I agree with most of what Patrick says above. I'll just toss out there that I think the margins are narrowing. EPS, the sharing of knowledge etc. have made things closer. The VAM clones by all reports are pretty much indistinguishable from the real thing. I suspect the X68 is closer to an SL bike than the x38 is to a Foil. Time will tell.
Its not impossible, even with the price difference. Again, look at the US tariffs going back to Trump 1. There's a good reason that carbon frames at $600 were exempt at the urging of Parlee and others. There have been plenty of reports to sort of place the actual cost of most outsourced framesets in that ballpark. Now, aside from marketing, sponsorship, cache, and multi level distribution, what accounts for the retail price of a real SL8? I don't doubt there are some corners cut, but several thousand dollars in corners? An SL8 frameset is over 3k. Without a handlebar/stem. So yeah, for some of us cost is a consideration.
In my case the algebra was simple. I'm 65. Its questionable whether I'll be comfortable on an aggro geometry bike (and for how much longer, lol), and rather than risk 2500 or so on a used sl8 to find out, here I'm risking 700 bucks. If the geo works and the bike is nice enough, I'll hang on to it, if it sucks in either ride or fit, its not an economic disaster. I've had non clone bikes from Hong Fu etc that were fine, and while this is a more sophisticated thing, I'm not worried.
Still, I'd be willing to pitch a hundred bucks Patrick's way to help fund an x68 back to back, out of genuine curiosity as to how close or far from an acknowledge halo bike it is.
PS-I hear you, Patrick about the "softness" of the sl8 relatively. Its why I sort of chuckle at reviews of the x68 that say its "slightly soft". Hell, the real thing is.
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You are far too kind and generous @glepore thank you!
I'm still reviewing TanTan's latest gravel frame so I don't wanna ruin my good graces with them until all the video content has been fulfilled. Also I suspect they wouldn't be keen on sending the X68 for reviews since they don't really wanna be promoting clones in public's eye. The X38 Scott Foil clone I paid for myself.
TanTan would most likely want me to commit financially to the X68. I'll see if I can negotiate haha. It's 2 month turnaround anyway.
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You are far too kind and generous @glepore thank you!
I'm still reviewing TanTan's latest gravel frame so I don't wanna ruin my good graces with them until all the video content has been fulfilled. Also I suspect they wouldn't be keen on sending the X68 for reviews since they don't really wanna be promoting clones in public's eye. The X38 Scott Foil clone I paid for myself.
TanTan would most likely want me to commit financially to the X68. I'll see if I can negotiate haha. It's 2 month turnaround anyway.
I guess you should do more penetration test to make content :)
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I'll just toss out there that I think the margins are narrowing. EPS, the sharing of knowledge etc. have made things closer. The VAM clones by all reports are pretty much indistinguishable from the real thing. I suspect the X68 is closer to an SL bike than the x38 is to a Foil. Time will tell.
Its not impossible, even with the price difference.
+1 on that. The layup know-how is with the factories, not the brands, at this point, i'm pretty sure. Westerners don't like going to and spending time in China. Some brands will do in house prototypes, you'd have to trust that the factory would replicate the layup - i'd question that. Most brands don't do any layup, they ask the factory to get the frame to be that stiff in that area, to weigh that much, and voila. I'm convinced that if you're not on the factory floor, you don't know your product. Especially in China.
People locally talk, they learn, they switch companies, they start their own thing, they moonlight. Techniques are getting better, know-how is getting better, and know-how is spreading.
On price, i heard that the factory that makes frames for Factor charges Factor less than $500 per frame...
Now, can you buy a fake SL8 and get something indistinguishable? No idea. But we're not talking rocket ships. And with tyres getting bigger, all this air will mute a lot of differences. And even if back to back, you may be able to tell the difference, ride whichever frame 5x and you'll probably forget how the other one felt. For probably 90% of riders (the last 10% would be racers, sprinters and the likes).
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And keeping in mind: OEM SL8 is around 700g, the X68 araing 840g, means 20% more material to cover up non-optimal layup pattern ... saving 4k on a frame
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And keeping in mind: OEM SL8 is around 700g, the X68 araing 840g, means 20% more material to cover up non-optimal layup pattern ... saving 4k on a frame
That's the same pretty much as the Pro Model. i think your looking at 850-900g for a 54cm
My genuine SL8 54CM IS 700g
That's acceptable and well light compared wit some of the OEM open mould generally around 1000g
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On price, i heard that the factory that makes frames for Factor charges Factor less than $500 per frame...
+1 Here too
Price ≠ Quality – Hard Facts on Building Blocks, Smartphones, Carbon Bikes & Cars
Many people assume: High price = high quality, low price = cheap junk. But that’s not necessarily true. Quality means meeting requirements – and these are set individually by each customer. Additionally, there are standards like ISO norms.
A clear example: Building Blocks. LEGO, the European Danish brand, charges high prices. But if you compare their products to Chinese competitors like Pantasy or Panlos or Funwhole , you might be shocked.
Facts:
✔️ Chinese brands offer products at half the price – with better quality!
✔️ No scratches on the bricks
✔️ Less color variation
✔️ Printed parts instead of cheap stickers
✔️ Higher-quality prints (LEGO prints only once, causing colors to shine through)
LEGO cuts costs everywhere – and it shows. Price is not a guarantee for quality or "good" Product.
The same applies to smartphones.
What do you think an iPhone costs to produce? Just a few hundred euros – but it sells for five times that amount! Here, you’re not paying for quality but for branding, marketing, and profit margins.
And it’s no different with carbon bikes.
According to my research, a carbon frame costs around €300–600 to manufacture. Important: This refers to production costs, not the retail price or sales price! Yet, these bikes are sold for thousands in stores.
Even cars follow this pattern.
Take the Xiaomi SU7 Max: In China, it costs around €38,000, but in Germany, the price jumps to €70,000! This massive markup isn’t about quality – it’s about import taxes, branding, and extra costs.
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I will be keen on hearing more ride impressions from the folks in here. Seems like specifically the X68 should be very close to the actual SL8. Only time will tell...
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As far as I can tell from this thread, only you and Sander have genuine sl8's-the ride impressions from the rest of us are likely meaningless.
FWIW, I'm only 165 cm and 60 kg with an old guy's ftp to match, so my ride impressions will be skewed. Unless the bike is a complete noodle or rides like a 2x4 I'll likely think its ok. My other bikes are high end mixed materials or ti and can't really serve as data points. Closest thing to an actual sl series that I've owned was an older SS Evo.
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Well, after the first 100km on the bike I can confirm that it is very rigid. Having used a Velobuild 268 about 5000km last year. This Tantan X68 shows from the outset the differences in driving.
I won't go into details of whether it's easier to maintain high speed at less watts, but I've been able to see that in strong sprints at 900 watts 268 It was more flexible than this bike
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I can compare it at least to my SL7 on which I have 120.000 km :D
Btw so can someone confirm me that it is compatible with front 140 mm disc rotors?
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I can compare it at least to my SL7 on which I have 120.000 km :D
Btw so can someone confirm me that it is compatible with front 140 mm disc rotors?
Will be very curious to hear your thoughts on how the 2 frames compare, given you're pushing equipment in ways that 90+% of the users on this forum dont.
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Yeah so a local racer here just contacted me telling he ordered an X68 in the same size I ride, size 56.
He said once the frame is in his hands and built, he's happy to let me demo it. The lord giveth...
This is his order:
https://www.instagram.com/p/DHlFrh1PBn_/
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Sweet color, don't drop it.
I just saved a hundred bucks! Want some tequila?
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Sweet color, don't drop it.
I just saved a hundred bucks! Want some tequila?
Haha I stopped drinking 16 months ago. Ironically the last drink I had was tequila I think. It sucks tbh. No spirit-free cocktail can replace the taste of a good old fashion...
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Will be very curious to hear your thoughts on how the 2 frames compare, given you're pushing equipment in ways that 90+% of the users on this forum dont.
Yes I ride a lot with yearsly also 400.000m elevation and rac(ed) a lot with a usually around 20h of training per week. Thus I know my Tarmac SL7 very very well. I was also a bit sceptical about the chinese frames. But recently I bought a Carbonda 505 SL as gravel/road bike and i am amazed of how well it rides also compared to my SL7. Thus for only 700 dollars I will give the Seraph a try. I will even stick the same components on it, same wheels, same groupset (found a ultegra 11 speed di2 for cheap from a local Conti riders old second bike), same saddle and most importantly i have also on my SL7 the Roval Rapide cockpit, so I can compare that. I will try to report here.
Still wondering if the 140mm front brake disc will work though.
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Via e-Mail they confirmed to me, that the frame works with 140/140, and that another adapter is needed for 160. I ordered just 2 weeks ago, so it'll take some time till I can confirm first hand.
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Yes I ride a lot with yearsly also 400.000m elevation and rac(ed) a lot with a usually around 20h of training per week. Thus I know my Tarmac SL7 very very well. I was also a bit sceptical about the chinese frames. But recently I bought a Carbonda 505 SL as gravel/road bike and i am amazed of how well it rides also compared to my SL7. Thus for only 700 dollars I will give the Seraph a try. I will even stick the same components on it, same wheels, same groupset (found a ultegra 11 speed di2 for cheap from a local Conti riders old second bike), same saddle and most importantly i have also on my SL7 the Roval Rapide cockpit, so I can compare that. I will try to report here.
Still wondering if the 140mm front brake disc will work though.
My good man, please make a dedicated thread here to share your thoughts when you're done. You could break the internet. Genuinely, if you transfer the components, including wheels, tyres, cockpit, given how much you ride, your FTP, the type of riding you do, you comparing a real SL7 to this frame will credibly answer questions almost every one looking at chinese frames is asking. I would even want you on the nero show podcast shooting $hit w Jesse Coyle, because again, you'd be credible.
It's exciting :D
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Yes I ride a lot with yearsly also 400.000m elevation and rac(ed) a lot with a usually around 20h of training per week. Thus I know my Tarmac SL7 very very well. I was also a bit sceptical about the chinese frames. But recently I bought a Carbonda 505 SL as gravel/road bike and i am amazed of how well it rides also compared to my SL7. Thus for only 700 dollars I will give the Seraph a try. I will even stick the same components on it, same wheels, same groupset (found a ultegra 11 speed di2 for cheap from a local Conti riders old second bike), same saddle and most importantly i have also on my SL7 the Roval Rapide cockpit, so I can compare that. I will try to report here.
Still wondering if the 140mm front brake disc will work though.
AFAIK default rotor size for SL8 is 160mm for the front fork, so you may need to buy a cheap reverse disc rotor size adapter from 160mm to a 140mm reducer.
Would look forward to your build and experience bro, good luck!
PS Saw this video over at youtube, I can see the guy simply fipped the disc rotor mount;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksyDjyhMlBI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksyDjyhMlBI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksyDjyhMlBI)
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My good man, please make a dedicated thread here to share your thoughts when you're done. You could break the internet. Genuinely, if you transfer the components, including wheels, tyres, cockpit, given how much you ride, your FTP, the type of riding you do, you comparing a real SL7 to this frame will credibly answer questions almost every one looking at chinese frames is asking. I would even want you on the nero show podcast shooting $hit w Jesse Coyle, because again, you'd be credible.
It's exciting :D
Haha i can think of that when I have the frame. Either a thread or a good post here. I for sure will abuse the frame, while Im not pushing insane watts (threshold around 335w with 65kg) I am for sure relative competitive.
But yes I cannot wait to have the frame in my hands. Being on the nero show would be maybe a bit to much.
btw if you want to follow me im here on strava: https://www.strava.com/athletes/8718766
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Have the frame built with Ultegra di2 11s and Onirii pedals, some 45mm deep heavy wheels and S-Works Power, weighs in at 7.2kg.
I'm having an issue with brake caliper mounts on the front, they aren't faced and my LBS says they can't face them because of the unusual length between the both screws.. I think with the Park Tool facing tool this should be fixable, just have to find a bike shop that will do this for me.
I'm excited about the first kilometers on the bike in the next weeks. Can only compare to my SL6 clone from Delihea/Trifox
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Haha i can think of that when I have the frame. Either a thread or a good post here. I for sure will abuse the frame, while Im not pushing insane watts (threshold around 335w with 65kg) I am for sure relative competitive.
But yes I cannot wait to have the frame in my hands. Being on the nero show would be maybe a bit to much.
btw if you want to follow me im here on strava: https://www.strava.com/athletes/8718766
Yep definitely interested in reading some more reviews and maybe some photos.
Was thinking of Taiwan Eisen Frame but again maybe X68. Tan Tab said the manufacture it but who knows.
If we could get some cold hard evidence they did and were not trading frames I might pull the trigger. But will read as I am i no rush to get another frame as I would use as a winter bike in UK anyway
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Hey all, we have almost finished the build yesterday.
It's not entirely finished, but I have to wait with the handlebar tape until I get to the bike fit guy to set it up properly for me.
Here is the photo of the almost finished bike. It weighs a little over 8kg in size 58 and has quite heavy wheels and tires. With better wheels and tires that I hope to get soonish(tm), I should be able to save around 500-550g with that alone.
Some notes from building the bike. Brakes, we're not that hard to center. It took some finicking, but my friend managed to do it in about 20 minutes or so. Routing cables and hoses were also not that hard, but be careful so you don't drop the metal plate holding the front derailleur in the seat post tube. It was a pain to finagle it back in place.. Otherwise, everything was relatively straightforward. The headtube was finished nicely, and the bearing sat firmly there with no play. Also, the gap under the spacers is not bad after compressing it (see picture).
Can't attach pictures here. It crashes the page, so it's here on google drive - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AEk9xj3Kvf6tfcz9mtWzV21S3gj--7qY?usp=sharing
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Hey all, we have almost finished the build yesterday.
It's not entirely finished, but I have to wait with the handlebar tape until I get to the bike fit guy to set it up properly for me.
Here is the photo of the almost finished bike. It weighs a little over 8kg in size 58 and has quite heavy wheels and tires. With better wheels and tires that I hope to get soonish(tm), I should be able to save around 500-550g with that alone.
Some notes from building the bike. Brakes, we're not that hard to center. It took some finicking, but my friend managed to do it in about 20 minutes or so. Routing cables and hoses were also not that hard, but be careful so you don't drop the metal plate holding the front derailleur in the seat post tube. It was a pain to finagle it back in place.. Otherwise, everything was relatively straightforward. The headtube was finished nicely, and the bearing sat firmly there with no play. Also, the gap under the spacers is not bad after compressing it (see picture).
Can't attach pictures here. It crashes the page, so it's here on google drive - https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1AEk9xj3Kvf6tfcz9mtWzV21S3gj--7qY?usp=sharing
I also dropped that metal plate holding the front derailleur plate into the seat tube absolute pain to get that back
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Have the frame built with Ultegra di2 11s and Onirii pedals, some 45mm deep heavy wheels and S-Works Power, weighs in at 7.2kg.
I'm having an issue with brake caliper mounts on the front, they aren't faced and my LBS says they can't face them because of the unusual length between the both screws.. I think with the Park Tool facing tool this should be fixable, just have to find a bike shop that will do this for me.
I wonder if its actually "unusual" or just a copy of Specialized unique spacing to the Aetheos and SL8. I'm curious-are you running 160 up front and did the frame ship with the appropriate adapter to make that work?
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I wonder if its actually "unusual" or just a copy of Specialized unique spacing to the Aetheos and SL8. I'm curious-are you running 160 up front and did the frame ship with the appropriate adapter to make that work?
I don't know whether it's the same spacing as Specialized or different from their spacing.
They did ship with the adapter for 160mm, I will ride with 160mm disc in the front
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I also dropped that metal plate holding the front derailleur plate into the seat tube absolute pain to get that back
For future user, you can have a look at pages 20, 21 and 22 of the Tarmac SL8 manual. It explains how to install it.
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I wonder if its actually "unusual" or just a copy of Specialized unique spacing to the Aetheos and SL8. I'm curious-are you running 160 up front and did the frame ship with the appropriate adapter to make that work?
Yes, you get the proper adapter for the 160mm rotor. You can see it in the picture below. I also set it up with 160mm in the back, and I used the Shimano flat mount adapter that was provided with the 105 di2 kit I got.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZahWCEys7QcntiSH_ZXIWIQdF5lDjy_k/view?usp=drive_link
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We also had issues with the brake calipers settling in. This can be fixed with the specific tool, but we could let Tantan know about this problem so they can fix it, since quite a few of us have had it. It also happens on 12k bikes.
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Yes, you get the proper adapter for the 160mm rotor. You can see it in the picture below. I also set it up with 160mm in the back, and I used the Shimano flat mount adapter that was provided with the 105 di2 kit I got.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ZahWCEys7QcntiSH_ZXIWIQdF5lDjy_k/view?usp=drive_link
Ok so and to use 140mm rotors you turn it around or you need another adapter? Or do you use the normal one of shimano?
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Ok so and to use 140mm rotors you turn it around or you need another adapter? Or do you use the normal one of shimano?
I believe you can't use the 140mm front brake rotor. I don't know how that would work with this adapter. I don't think turning it around or something would work.
I remember when I was putting on the front brake caliper, I tested the Shimano adapter that came with the calipers, and that seemed to fit, so maybe 140mm could work.
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I believe you can't use the 140mm front brake rotor. I don't know how that would work with this adapter. I don't think turning it around or something would work.
I remember when I was putting on the front brake caliper, I tested the Shimano adapter that came with the calipers, and that seemed to fit, so maybe 140mm could work.
OKay I see. I think there remains nothing left as to try for myself once I have the frame.
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Yeah, it remains a mystery. The actual sl8 is 160 only which causes problems in Campy land as they're standard front road caliper is native 160, so you end up having to use a rear caliper and Specialized plate, as Specialized chose unique spacing for the brake mounts. So it may be that Tantan ships this with a 140 mount or not. Guess we'll both find out.
My bike finally cleared outbound customs after being held for 6 days for "verification". Day 71 from payment.
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Yeah, it remains a mystery. The actual sl8 is 160 only which causes problems in Campy land as they're standard front road caliper is native 160, so you end up having to use a rear caliper and Specialized plate, as Specialized chose unique spacing for the brake mounts. So it may be that Tantan ships this with a 140 mount or not. Guess we'll both find out.
My bike finally cleared outbound customs after being held for 6 days for "verification". Day 71 from payment.
Jasus, 71 days! There must be a huge demand.
What’s size and colour have you ordered?
Woukd love to see more photos of your frames fellas and ladies!
I’ve been considering a few options, including the Taiwan Eisen and a few others, but Tan Tan seems to have more positive reviews. I’m now leaning back toward this frame for my build, which will go up against my genuine SL8. Planning to use XM wheels, Ultegra, a Ryet saddle, and an OSPW
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Nuthin special, just the pearl white shown in their promos. In fairness, paid 1/19, then the New Year came, then I hear paint was backed up due to the backlog, then they put the wrong cassette on and a couple days to email back and forth to make sure I was ok with it (32 vs 34 ordered, have a light 34 here anyway), then 5 days while customs inspected it. So likely not typical, but I ain't getting any younger.
I have a pile of stuff waiting, XM 50/65, quarq, light cassette, cages. Campy calipers and rotors to swap for the Wheeltop, yada.
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Nuthin special, just the pearl white shown in their promos. In fairness, paid 1/19, then the New Year came, then I hear paint was backed up due to the backlog, then they put the wrong cassette on and a couple days to email back and forth to make sure I was ok with it (32 vs 34 ordered, have a light 34 here anyway), then 5 days while customs inspected it. So likely not typical, but I ain't getting any younger.
I have a pile of stuff waiting, XM 50/65, quarq, light cassette, cages. Campy calipers and rotors to swap for the Wheeltop, yada.
lol ok well I will be very interested to here how you build goes.
I hope it goes well!
Still waiting for Patrick review
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Yeah so a local racer here just contacted me telling he ordered an X68 in the same size I ride, size 56.
He said once the frame is in his hands and built, he's happy to let me demo it. The lord giveth...
This is his order:
https://www.instagram.com/p/DHlFrh1PBn_/
That is a sweet colour looks to nice to race!
Well I'm sure they will also do this style in other colours :D
I am getting close to pulling the trigger ot sure what my weight weenie breatharian would think thought ! ;D
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A week ago I also ordered a frame in size 58. Chameleon white.
In addition, wheels from Peter - 50mm/50mm (1160g), Shimano 105 di2, 3D Ryet Saddle, OSPW Ryet, Titanium SpeedPlay pedals and Magene P505 powermeter. I hope that in mid-may the frame will be delivered