Chinertown
Chinese Carbon MTB => 29er => Topic started by: EddScott on March 10, 2021, 03:35:14 AM
-
For over a year now, the forum has been trying to organise a group buy to purchase the SC Clone/AM831 frame
like so:-
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/50996052811_25a62beb59_c.jpg)
Original AM831 thread:-
http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,2840.0.html
Original AM831 Group Buy thread
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,2891.0.html
Details of Group Buy and contact details for Eddy
Dear All:
Really thanks for your supporting of our frame FS-AM831 Enduro Full Suspension bike frame.
Now we have totally confirmed the production time, it would be bulk production on April, and 200 sets would be available in raw marerial around the middle of May.
And we got the bulk order price for you guys.
30 sets, USD540/set( item included frame, headset, BB, thru axle， clamp), not included custom fee, painting and shipping fee.
50 sets, USD499/set( item included frame, headset, BB, thru axle， clamp), not included custom fee, painting and shipping fee.
Now we want to collect the order, since some customer got the different color painting and size.
And the customers from different countries. the shipping way would be differece, we got the shipping, HKEMS, China Post, DHL, WXY( free custom fee）available.
For the painting fee is USD20 for one color(we got the color chart), and USD50 for the chameleon green/purple color, and if you got the customized decals, then please feel free to contact me for the best price.
Any question or help, feel free to let me know.
To collect the order, please feel free to contact me via email and now can be paid the deposit.
Aslo can be chat on wechat, +86 18475368733
email: eddy@haidelibicycle.com
Waited for you good news.
Thanks
Eddy
I've chatted with various manufacturers that offer this frame and have settled with Miracle Bikes.
I have two invoices ready to pay. One for 30 frames and one for 50 frames.
Can interested members PM me so I get an email notification to add you?
Quote for 50 frames is $499 before fees, paint, shipping
Quote for 30 frames is $540 before fees, paint, shipping
1. EddScott - L
2. Mumblejack - M
3. Mumblejack - S
4. gido - XL
5. Riding_truckee - M
6. RobertRinAustin - M
7. Scourge - L
8. esoin - M
9. jabbajaw99 - S
10. coisado - L
etc
-
It's been worked out so that Edd will not have to front the money. Everyone will pay Haideli directly.
Here is the link to the frame.
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/29er-Full-Suspension-Carbon-Bike-Frame_1600177694157.html?spm=a2706.im-chat.0.0.491c1f8dEhmJfm
(https://i.imgur.com/WcMqoyA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8PNMGbt.jpg)
Just a quick note about sizing. The AM831 runs a size larger than the SC. A medium 831 is the same size as a large SC. Below are the numbers for both frames.
If you're unsure about sizing, here's the link to the SC page. https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/bikes/hightower
AM831
(https://i.imgur.com/8PNMGbt.jpg)
Hightower
(https://i.imgur.com/9o7kGJg.jpg)
Dear All:
Really thanks for your supporting of our frame FS-AM831 Enduro Full Suspension bike frame.
Now we have totally confirmed the production time, it would be bulk production on April, and 200 sets would be available in raw marerial around the middle of May.
And we got the bulk order price for you guys.
30 sets, USD540/set( item included frame, headset, BB, thru axle， clamp), not included custom fee, painting and shipping fee.
50 sets, USD499/set( item included frame, headset, BB, thru axle， clamp), not included custom fee, painting and shipping fee.
Now we want to collect the order, since some customer got the different color painting and size.
And the customers from different countries. the shipping way would be differece, we got the shipping, HKEMS, China Post, DHL, WXY( free custom fee）available.
For the painting fee is USD20 for one color(we got the color chart), and USD50 for the chameleon green/purple color, and if you got the customized decals, then please feel free to contact me for the best price.
Any question or help, feel free to let me know.
To collect the order, please feel free to contact me via email and now can be paid the deposit.
Aslo can be chat on wechat, +86 18475368733
email: eddy@haidelibicycle.com
Waited for you good news.
Thanks
Eddy
Eddy estimated shipping at the end of May.
-
I'm in for a large
-
Count me in for a Medium.
USA
-
1 Small to Canada.
-
i'm in. Large usa
-
Updated - 1/3 of the way there :)
-
So who is going to track how many people are buying?
OR do we just click the Alibaba link and order up the frame we want whenever?
I'm new to dealing with china and shipping and what not, so hopefully someone will cue me up when its time to pull the trigger.
:o
Thanks
Also put me down for an XL. Canada
-
2 mediums and 1 small. Jham
-
Any idea what shipping with duty will add to Europe?
-
I see Eddie from Haideli is back and commenting in the other threads. Are we now going with someone else? Awkward.
-
Hey guys i just got an email from Eddy H about being able to pay them directly for the frames and we could get the discounted price. I told him i wanted three frames and he asked what color and other info. Has anybody else been in contact with him?
-
I see Eddie from Haideli is back and commenting in the other threads. Are we now going with someone else? Awkward.
I don't think we're committed to anyone yet. I think we go with whoever offers the best value. I believe that is probably Eddy/ Haideli. Price for the frame is the same, but Haideli include headset, bb, axle and seat post clamp. Painting is also much cheaper, $20 vs $70.
-
Medium
-
I hope the bottom bracket and headset come installed. I just put in my first headset using a headset press I got off Amazon. It worked but I did it on an aluminum frame. I would not want to exert that much pressure on a carbon frame. I'd be too afraid to crack it.
-
Not to bring up a sore subject, but was a BSA BB an option? Would others prefer it? I haven't gone and found it but I'm pretty sure it was discussed at one point and one supplier was offering it as an option but don't remember which one?
I'll be in for one or 2. Does anyone know if matte or glossy is determined by clear coat? Would clear coat be considered paint? Is it needed or is the base option ok?
Also, was there a link to accessories? Its not showing up currently... If I'm paying shipping I want to see what other goodies can be crammed in!
-
Not to bring up a sore subject, but was a BSA BB an option? Would others prefer it? I haven't gone and found it but I'm pretty sure it was discussed at one point and one supplier was offering it as an option but don't remember which one?
I'll be in for one or 2. Does anyone know if matte or glossy is determined by clear coat? Would clear coat be considered paint? Is it needed or is the base option ok?
Also, was there a link to accessories? Its not showing up currently... If I'm paying shipping I want to see what other goodies can be crammed in!
I'd much rather have BSA, but was told be every vendor it's not an option. It would require a mold change. Not sure on the matte/ clear question. When you place your order, you can ask about any accessories you want.
-
well i just ordered three frames from eddy h. here we go ladies and gents.
-
Please sent me the email for confirm the order details of the color and size.
Sorry that i would not be always online here, so email would be best.
If you want to add in group buy, please contact me immediately by email eddy@haidelibicycle.com
Thanks
Eddy
-
OK, if we hit the minimum numbers I'm in for a small. Canada
-
Hi, also in for size Large to Hungary
-
Okay, please contact me by email to confirm the order details of the color and size.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
-
I don't think we're committed to anyone yet. I think we go with whoever offers the best value. I believe that is probably Eddy/ Haideli. Price for the frame is the same, but Haideli include headset, bb, axle and seat post clamp. Painting is also much cheaper, $20 vs $70.
No final decision had been made. However, I have had more contact with Miracle than Eddy/Haideli/Top Fire.
I had intended to wait until we had minimum of 30 orders before choosing the manufacturer/re-seller.
However, this option may suit the forum better as Eddy-Haideli is already on here as a member.
I would suggest members make their order direct with Eddy-Haideli and then update this thread with their order. I will then update the first post.
-
Ordered a medium chameleon green with Eddy.
BTW, he said no shock option at this time.
-
So we just place orders with Eddie and tell him it's part of the group buy?
To paint or not to paint? That is the question.
-
So we just place orders with Eddie and tell him it's part of the group buy?
To paint or not to paint? That is the question.
Yes and yes. Seriously, I'm team no paint but for $20 for "chameleon" paint, I couldn't resist.
-
I'm just confused how the group buy with Eddy will work with people prepaying. So you go ahead and pay. Well what if only 30 people sign up? Do you have to pay him more? What if 15 end up doing it? Then what? Does your money get refunded? Or do we just pay the 499 and we're guaranteed to get a frame for that price?
-
what color is the chameleon green robert? what number on their color chart?
-
I’m in - small, USA
-
what color is the chameleon green robert? what number on their color chart?
I don't think it's one of the colors on the chart. I have no idea what it's going to look like, but for $20, I'll give it a go. I'm hoping it's a dark or medium green with color shifting. Maybe it's green and purple but Eddy's email reply to me made it seem like it was either green or purple, so not sure what to expect. I can rattle can it if I don't like it, but a seriously doubt that will be the case. I'm not real picky.
-
that is hilarious. when did he mention this chameleon color? I might roll the dice as well.
-
i emailed eddy and this is the color he means
https://imgur.com/a/ceB7UVv
-
Guys - We need to keep a check on whose ordered and paid.
Can those that have ordered and paid replied on here please?
I'll go back to those on the first page just to confirm the updated details.
Once I know whose ordered and paid, I'll update the first page.
And just to confirm - the payment is required in full. No deposit plus final payment.
:)
-
What about Mumblejack's question? How are we deciding what the frame price is now?
-
What about Mumblejack's question? How are we deciding what the frame price is now?
I asked Eddy. He is giving us the 30 frame rate, $540. We're not close to that, so doubt we'll get to 50 and $499.
-
i emailed eddy and this is the color he means
https://imgur.com/a/ceB7UVv
That works for me.
Edd- Paid Eddy for my size M.
-
I think we could hit 50 again, but not in an acceptable amount of time. I'll do an order later today. Still deciding on paint or not. I wish we had pictures of other Haideli bikes using the provided colors. It's hard to tell in the little swatches what color it really is.
-
i already ordered three frames from eddy h. He gave me the greater than 50 price.... 500 a pop. maybe its because i ordered three?
-
Do administrators have access to email addresses for members who were in the original group buy thread? A generic email letting them know the d al is a go now and place your orders if you want in could really drum up some numbers.
-
Do administrators have access to email addresses for members who were in the original group buy thread? A generic email letting them know the d al is a go now and place your orders if you want in could really drum up some numbers.
I got a PM from Eddy with the same thing he posted in the GB thread. Not sure if he PMed everyone from that thread.
-
I didn't get a PM from him, so I'm gonna say not everyone.
-
I would like to get in on this group buy. Is there still time?
Thanks,
Chris
-
Please sent me the email for confirm the order details of the color and size.
Sorry that i would not be always online here, so email would be best.
If you want to add in group buy, please contact me immediately by email eddy@haidelibicycle.com
Thanks
Eddy
If you want in on the GB, email Eddy directly and mention the group buy on Chinertown. There are color options in the first post of the other 831 group buy thread.
-
To drum remind some of the people who were in on this group buy but probably haven't been here in a while, I decided to send PMs to everyone in the original group buy thread. Figured we might be able to hit 50 and save money, and it also drums up more business for Eddie.
I didn't know there was a limit to how many I could do an hour. Apparently the limit is 20. I only got to Flo7 on page four before I hit the limit. I'll try again later if it lets me do it again after another hour. I'm trying to get you some sales, Eddie.
-
Now I'm on Bajker on page 10. I'll try some more later.
-
Did shipping costs get figured out in the pricing or are they a variable once produced/packaged?
Looking at 1 or 2 to canada.
-
does anybody know if you can run coil shock?
-
I have ordered and paid for one size M from Eddy.
-
I have ordered and paid for a small from Eddie including 2 extra derailuer Hangers
-
I ordered a Medium and paid in full. This will be my first full build. Looking forward to it.
Let's spam the people in the other group buy thread and get this to 50.
-
im out for this anyway, ended up buying a p9 and need to finish building that
-
Started again this morning with the PMs. Up to Smarty on page 13
-
For those that have paid, how much was shipping? Is that paid immediately or later?
Was payment done via PayPal?
-
Did shipping costs get figured out in the pricing or are they a variable once produced/packaged?
Looking at 1 or 2 to canada.
Eddy will give you shipping cost. It's the same as everyone else and China Post was an option for shipping to the US.
does anybody know if you can run coil shock?
SC says no go for a coil on the Hightower and I figure the 831 is the same.
-
For those that have paid, how much was shipping? Is that paid immediately or later?
Was payment done via PayPal?
Shipping was $100 China Post to US, paid in full via PP. Other options are available.
-
Can someone who received a PM from me copy it and send it back to me? I accidentally copied something else and need it again to make sending more messages easier. Thanks.
-
What’s our time frame looking like again? I want in on this, but it’s gonna be a minute until I can pay in full
-
Can someone who received a PM from me copy it and send it back to me? I accidentally copied something else and need it again to make sending more messages easier. Thanks.
Sent it to you
-
Thank you Robert. Got it and sent out more. Now up to Paulipan on page 19
-
I guess confusion and uncertainty is just part of the process when ordering over seas.
Who is the manufacturer going to be? I thought it sounded like Miracle but since we are emailing Eddy I guess that means its Haideli now? I also made the mistake of thinking the thread starter and Eddy were the same person but thats not the case. It also seems like there are 3 or 4 people contributing details and they don't all match, as well as some of the original statements no longer being accurate, at least from what I can tell. It would be nice to have an updated post with current and accurate info since we are to the point of sending people money. It seems like everyone has questions and are either getting them answered individually in email or going forward on faith.
Some clarity is probably needed for the sake of the cautious if we are going to get to 50 frames...
-
I guess confusion and uncertainty is just part of the process when ordering over seas.
Who is the manufacturer going to be? I thought it sounded like Miracle but since we are emailing Eddy I guess that means its Haideli now? I also made the mistake of thinking the thread starter and Eddy were the same person but thats not the case. It also seems like there are 3 or 4 people contributing details and they don't all match, as well as some of the original statements no longer being accurate, at least from what I can tell. It would be nice to have an updated post with current and accurate info since we are to the point of sending people money. It seems like everyone has questions and are either getting them answered individually in email or going forward on faith.
Some clarity is probably needed for the sake of the cautious if we are going to get to 50 frames...
I just think it's sketchy that someone that didn't reply but like 3 times in a year all of the sudden has the frames ready when we decide to go with another seller. Seems sketchy to me.
-
PMs out are now at Bruve Bikes on page 22
-
I just think it's sketchy that someone that didn't reply but like 3 times in a year all of the sudden has the frames ready when we decide to go with another seller. Seems sketchy to me.
Nothing sketchy at all. He is replying now because frames are scheduled for production. Miracle, Haideli and everyone else selling this frame most likely get them from the same factory. They were all waiting just like we are.
-
I'm now to zilcho on page 26. I apologise if some of you are getting more than one message. I'm trying to just hit people who say they are in, but some people have reiterated their initial wanting in later in the thresd., And may get a duplicate PM.
-
Hi all, scourge sent me a PM directing me towards this thread.
When do you need to know by? I'm interested, but it a touchy situation where its difficult to justify buying a 9th or 10th bike, and even a simple frame swap necessitates a new shock at least. Still, seems like a really great deal, and one that's hard to pass up. When would you need a commitment by?
Do I have my facts straight, more or less?
- Purchasing from Eddy with Haideli bikes?
- Paint is a $20 add on? Which colors are available, any from the first group purchase thread?
- $250+20 for paint USD due soon, then $250+shipping due in 2 months after production? (or 270+270 for under 50 qty)
- Typical shipping to the US runs somewhere around 100 USD?
- Shipped directly to the individual buyer, and under 800 USD, so no import duty tax?
Thanks guys...
-
Hi all, scourge sent me a PM directing me towards this thread.
When do you need to know by? I'm interested, but it a touchy situation where its difficult to justify buying a 9th or 10th bike, and even a simple frame swap necessitates a new shock at least. Still, seems like a really great deal, and one that's hard to pass up. When would you need a commitment by?
Do I have my facts straight, more or less?
- Purchasing from Eddy with Haideli bikes?
- Paint is a $20 add on? Which colors are available, any from the first group purchase thread?
- $250+20 for paint USD due soon, then $250+shipping due in 2 months after production? (or 270+270 for under 50 qty)
- Typical shipping to the US runs somewhere around 100 USD?
- Shipped directly to the individual buyer, and under 800 USD, so no import duty tax?
Thanks guys...
Only thing you got wrong is it's paid in full. You can order the colors from the original GB thread or talk to Eddy if you want something different. He seems to be able to come up with whatever color you might want.
-
Alright I got PMs to everyone in the old group buy thread that expressed interest. I have not gone through the regular AM831 thread. Don't think I'll have time for that. But the one thread is done.
Also what time do you guys usually communicate with Eddie? I emailed him this morning US time, and no reply yet.
-
Tideace is Haideli, correct? Or am I wrong about that? Because I am seeing some great colors on Tideace frames on eBay. Are these available for our group buy?
I'm seeing a chameleon purple (not the chameleon green), a metallic orange, a lighter metallic gold that looks slightly orange, baby blue, a different baby blue they call Celeste, etc.
Are these available? Or are some of these the colors on the original swatches and I just can't tell?
-
a bit lost on how to order: do I order through this below link?
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/29er-Full-Suspension-Carbon-Bike-Frame_1600177694157.html?spm=a2706.im-chat.0.0.491c1f8dEhmJfm
and as for $500 or $540, let's say we hit more than 50 order, is Eddy? going to refund the different?
Thanks,
-
Don't use that link. People are emailing Eddie directly to place orders. I'm still a little confused on the pricing too.
-
I'm still very slow here..... what's Eddy email?
thanks
-
Tideace is Haideli, correct? Or am I wrong about that? Because I am seeing some great colors on Tideace frames on eBay. Are these available for our group buy?
I'm seeing a chameleon purple (not the chameleon green), a metallic orange, a lighter metallic gold that looks slightly orange, baby blue, a different baby blue they call Celeste, etc.
Are these available? Or are some of these the colors on the original swatches and I just can't tell?
There is some relationship there. Not sure if it's ever been confirmed exactly what their relationship is.
Eddy uses Tideace frames to reference colors. My assumption is he can get the frame painted any color you see on a Tideace frame.
-
Unless its something rather rare like marbleizing or crystal or particular pearls, simple chameleons, candies and other simple flake effects should all be fairly easily done. Ask eddy what's possible and you'll probably be OK.
-
Our company is Haideli, Tideace is our brand name, we got our own brand "Tideace" thanks.
And my email account is eddy@haidelibicycle.com
Thanks
-
a bit lost on how to order: do I order through this below link?
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/29er-Full-Suspension-Carbon-Bike-Frame_1600177694157.html?spm=a2706.im-chat.0.0.491c1f8dEhmJfm
and as for $500 or $540, let's say we hit more than 50 order, is Eddy? going to refund the different?
Thanks,
Eddy has 10 orders as of tonight. Doubt we'll hit 30, much less 50.
BTW, I went with moss green. Looking for something like BRG.
(https://i.imgur.com/FSieBO5.jpg)
-
Do we have a timeline for when orders must be in by?
-
Do we have a timeline for when orders must be in by?
Eddy says mid April
-
Count me in for a XL size in Santa Cruz Highland Blue Pantone color code PMS 2153 c. Shipping to California.
What is included? Any suggestions for components for a good build with this frame?
How long for delivery? Is delivery included in price?
-
I received a PM that the buy is happening - thanks for pinging everyone on the list. Can the original post on this thread get updated with Eddie's information?
-
Order confirmed with Eddy for 1 frame. Let's keep em going!
-
Count me in for a XL size in Santa Cruz Highland Blue Pantone color code PMS 2153 c. Shipping to California.
What is included? Any suggestions for components for a good build with this frame?
How long for delivery? Is delivery included in price?
Included, clamp, bb and headset, NOT INCLUDED RD HANGER but can be added for minimal cost.
Eddy estimated date to ship is end of May, shipping is not included.
I received a PM that the buy is happening - thanks for pinging everyone on the list. Can the original post on this thread get updated with Eddie's information?
Added Eddy's post that has his info and details about the GB to the second post in this thread.
-
Just a reminder that the sizing is off on these, size L 831 is an XL SC HIGHTOWER. See the second post in this thread for more details.
-
Do they actually not come with a hanger lol? That would be incredibly moronic
-
I asked Eddy about combined shipping, Pricing is $540 per bike, $120 per bike to ship to canada.
-
Do they actually not come with a hanger lol? That would be incredibly moronic
I know, right, but definitely don't come with a hanger.
As an aside, Miracle only included the frame, nothing else. So I guess be happy we get a BB, headset and set clamp?
-
I know, right, but definitely don't come with a hanger.
As an aside, Miracle only included the frame, nothing else. So I guess be happy we get a BB, headset and set clamp?
I don't see including a BB as a plus. Assuming just a generic 24mm BSA? A large part of the MTB community uses SRAM...give me a derailleur hanger, not a BB
-
I'm surprised it doesnt include a hanger, a necessary part to get the bike working. Perhaps something is lost in translation, and it doesn't come with a second backup hanger? I typically order a couple extra with the frame just in case. Always better to have them on hand than to be out of commission for a month.
As for the BB, it might be a generic PF92 style, probably 24mm like mentioned. You can buy inexpensive spacers to bring one side down to 22, which will work with older sram cranks, but not the newer DUB cranks that have taken over as the sram standard.
-
Eddie verified - no custom colors for the group buy.
-
I received an email from scourge about the Group Buy (GB) happening -thank you.
-I am still in with 1: size small (Unsure about a second one in size medium).
I still have a couple of doubts though, especially regarding our chances to reach the lower price and who and how this is being controlled.
-Is the 30 or 50 frame GB considered as such regardless of the frame size ordered?
-Are all sizes ready to produce now? (I think that when the original thread was started the frame and only in one size was still in development)
-What is the price if the GB does not even reach 30 frames?
-How are the orders being bundled (and who is doing it) so that we know the lower price was reached? Is there any need to do this?
-Is Eddy taking orders until a cut-off date so that he can quote based on the number of orders that we were able to reach? Or is it that, by simply telling Eddy you are part of the GB allows you to access the prices he gave us, and trust Eddy will quote accordingly?
-Is there any promise from Eddy to respect the $499 price or refund any difference if the GB reaches 50 frames?
-For what I have read, some people have already placed orders at $540 (before shipping, custom colour, etc.). Did Eddy ask for a payment already or is he waiting until a cut-off date?
-How does it work regarding payment? Do we need to cover 100% upfront? Or is it a 50% (or any other %) payment to place your order and the remainder before the order is shipped?
I guess it sounds with all these questions that I am hesitant but not really, I think $540 is still a good deal. I just would like to know more details if possible before placing an order, or other’s experience so far.
-
I received an email from scourge about the Group Buy (GB) happening -thank you.
-I am still in with 1: size small (Unsure about a second one in size medium).
I still have a couple of doubts though, especially regarding our chances to reach the lower price and who and how this is being controlled.
-Is the 30 or 50 frame GB considered as such regardless of the frame size ordered? We're getting the 30 minimum pricing, $540, even if we just order 10.
-Are all sizes ready to produce now? (I think that when the original thread was started the frame and only in one size was still in development) yes
-What is the price if the GB does not even reach 30 frames? $540
-How are the orders being bundled (and who is doing it) so that we know the lower price was reached? Is there any need to do this? No bundling, email Eddy
-Is Eddy taking orders until a cut-off date so that he can quote based on the number of orders that we were able to reach? Or is it that, by simply telling Eddy you are part of the GB allows you to access the prices he gave us, and trust Eddy will quote accordingly? Mid April for GB, email Eddy and tell him you're part of the GB
-Is there any promise from Eddy to respect the $499 price or refund any difference if the GB reaches 50 frames? We won't hit 50 frames
-For what I have read, some people have already placed orders at $540 (before shipping, custom colour, etc.). Did Eddy ask for a payment already or is he waiting until a cut-off date? I paid in full
-How does it work regarding payment? Do we need to cover 100% upfront? Or is it a 50% (or any other %) payment to place your order and the remainder before the order is shipped? Check with Eddy, I paid in full
I guess it sounds with all these questions that I am hesitant but not really, I think $540 is still a good deal. I just would like to know more details if possible before placing an order, or other’s experience so far.
See answers above
-
Eddie is charging $540 right now. I doubt we will hit 50 now, but 30 is possible. $540 is still a great deal in my opinion.
A few people have responded to my messages. I'm glad it helped some people. I could do a thread on mtbr and pinkbike forums if you guys want me to to drum up more buys.
I haven't placed my order yet. I'm ready but can't decide on a color. That's the only thing I'm waiting on.
-
See answers above
Thank you!
-
In for a M, maybe a S too.
-
Would I be able to fit a replacement link in this frame:
https://cascadecomponents.co.uk/collections/santa-cruz-linkages/products/hightower-v2-lt-link?variant=32211182190652 (https://cascadecomponents.co.uk/collections/santa-cruz-linkages/products/hightower-v2-lt-link?variant=32211182190652)
-
We don't know enough about the frame to determine that yet.
-
Asked Eddy about clearance for the fork crown, as there doesn't seem to be a lot of space under the downtube, kind of like the highball clone, he promptly replied he would check and let me know, no answer since, so I suppose the adjusters may hit the frame. I'm out!
-
Bbr has a small frame already and says his hits. I PMed him a few minutes ago. I'm not sure if larger frames will have the same issue. He said a product like this will fix the problem:
https://www.reverse-components.com/en/products/05%C2%B0-angle-spacer-tapered-forks
Luckily I already have one and was thinking of putting it on there anyway to take the head angle down to 65 degrees.
-
Hopefully the frame strike isn't an issue on size L. Good to see a workaround if so.
-
all this time and still not decent picture of finished frame... ::)
-
NGL the contact on the downtube has me worried a bit, especially because I'm ordering a small (medium) as well. If they couldn't get arguably one of the most important parts of the frame right how can we expect the rest to be decent?
-
Well bbr ordered his from winnowsports, not Haideli, and It was an early prototype, so maybe the issue will not be on the Haideli frame. Even if it is, looks like a simple fix. I'm still in.
-
NGL the contact on the downtube has me worried a bit, especially because I'm ordering a small (medium) as well. If they couldn't get arguably one of the most important parts of the frame right how can we expect the rest to be decent?
Didn't Cannondale have a similar problem in the last few years?
-
Didn't Cannondale have a similar problem in the last few years?
I think they solved that by using lefties that don't have the issue - lefties can't spin all the way 'round, and I'm sure their bikes are built with bumpers in the frame in case you get some unwanted spinning action.
Trek and some Canyons use bumpers and steering limiters. Maybe half of us will be modifying Trek knockblock armour and Acros block lock headsets in to our bikes.
edit: I don't think an IS version of a steering limited headset exists
Perhaps the new 9point8 angleset thing will also do the job - albeit for quite a bit more money than some of the other solutions mentioned.
-
NGL the contact on the downtube has me worried a bit, especially because I'm ordering a small (medium) as well. If they couldn't get arguably one of the most important parts of the frame right how can we expect the rest to be decent?
I hope this is just a bad joke...
-
Well bbr ordered his from winnowsports, not Haideli, and It was an early prototype, so maybe the issue will not be on the Haideli frame. Even if it is, looks like a simple fix. I'm still in.
Hey @scourge. You made me come out to the open to correct you. I bought this am831 frame from topfire. They replaced my lower linkage. . Are you a shill? I didnt say i got it from winnow or others. I've asked you where your from you didnt bother to reply me...
So guys... Becareful whom your placing your orders from and whom your following.
Just for the damm record. Like any other chinese frame, its the hardware thats kinda crap. Bearing and inserts.
But bearing can be replaced and inserts can be shimmed.
All these fs frames has some precision issues.
They are all vendors.not the real manufacturer. The 1st one whom got it last year as i recalled was topfire.
Perhaps someone can measure a pike with boost crown width.?
The frame is okay approx 2.3 kg with hardware.. I have not built it.
I am using a lyrik 42 offset boost and the.both air & compression knob hits the downtube.
As i said its a dissapointing that it hits but it can be remedied but an pain in the ass.
Remedy with a 5mm 1.5 lower headset crown for fat bike.
Nice try.. Kinda Rude too. Scourge .. Wont be replying you again.
-
Lol. I'm a shill now. You need to relax, buddy.
I read winnowsports was acknowledged on page 21 of the "Chinese Santa Cruz/AM831" thread. Upon re-reading it, out was zilcho saying that, not you. Still it's a different company, so maybe it will be different, maybe not.
Also I never saw your asking where I'm from. The last message I saw from you was confirming that the Reverse components angle spacer should help the problem. That message was at the start of a second page of PMs. I never saw your other reply until you mentioned it now and I looked back at the last message on the end of the first page.
My name is Rick and I'm from St. Louis, Missouri. You want any other info? I've got nothing to hide. Take off your tinfoil hat.
-
I don't think an IS version of a steering limited headset exists
The acros bloc lock is press in cups, with the limiter in the top cup and after preload, the top dust seam get tightened onto the steerer.
No mods would be needed to install this in a zs44/zs56 head tube. No frame parts like treks solution.
-
The acros bloc lock is press in cups, with the limiter in the top cup and after preload, the top dust seam get tightened onto the steerer.
No mods would be needed to install this in a zs44/zs56 head tube. No frame parts like treks solution.
I thought this bike was IS and not ZS, as most chiners I've seen IRL use IS headsets.
If its ZS then no problem, you can use the acros system as an expensive solution, or the 10mm lower press in cup that rocky mountain makes which you can likely get for close to free from a local rocky dealer - I know mine has dozens of the things sitting around.
I'd just thought the bike was IS is all.
-
I see, my bad. Just looking at the blueprint for the 1166 frame and its 52mm top and bottom. So you're right, looks to be IS, but with a 52mm upper that means it would be internal cable compatible.
Generally not a fan of IS headsets though as I feel like it'd be easier to be out of tolerance that zs. Actually I know of one person that's had 2x Evolve frames with wacky headset machining. I've even had it with a big brand Taiwanese made frame.
-
Thanks for you guys of the supporting.
We have not got the 50 sets order, so the price we offered 30sets Groupbuy USD540/set.
And if not reached 30sets, we would also keep the price for these guys who have pre-paid the order.
And the pre-paid order would be ending on the 20th April.
The price would be USD699/set not included shipping fee for one set once the groupbuy order ended.
Thanks, so if still got anybody want to join us, please feel free to contact me by email.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
Best regards
Have a ncie day.
-
Do we even know what the spacing in the bb is going to look like? What is that offset going to look like?
-
Did everyone else who placed an order have to pay a $30 paypal fee? I want to make sure I'm not the only one.
-
Did everyone else who placed an order have to pay a $30 paypal fee? I want to make sure I'm not the only one.
I was wondering why the quoted price and the PayPal invoice was $30 different. I have not paid yet though.
-
I'd probably be OK to pay the paypal fee - if you dont and use gifts and not g&s you don't get buyer protection.
-
I'm not complaining about it. I think it's still a good deal. It's just this is my first Chinese frame purchase and didn't know if this was a thing. Wanted to make sure I wasn't the only one.
-
Ive paid paypal fees on anything I got from alibaba so far.
-
watching this thread from day one i am almost ready to pull trigger...few questions..
Is it BSA73 or PF92?
Where is color list?
Will custom tax be paid in advance so the frame will come to my door without hustle with customs?
Shipping in EU around 150ish right?
-
Color selection
-
I paid for my small from Eddy.
-
watching this thread from day one i am almost ready to pull trigger...few questions..
Is it BSA73 or PF92?
Where is color list?
Will custom tax be paid in advance so the frame will come to my door without hustle with customs?
Shipping in EU around 150ish right?
Here is the BB info from Haideli website. Would the good to confirm though. The headset standard is also unknown.
(http://www.haidelibikes.com/upload/201910/1570692403957476.jpg)
-
Eddy says BB92.
-
Ordered a small from eddy
-
Ordered a large from Eddy. Now to look into a shock.
-
Ordered a large from Eddy. Now to look into a shock.
If you don't want to spend much, 210x55 float DPS's are just about the best price to performance out there on the used market for a totally acceptable rear shock. Not sure what tune you want (I forget what the Hightower comes with - assuming that's close enough) but there's probably some tunes to avoid. Commonly posted for like 200 bucks Canadian out here in BC.
-
Just paid for 1 x small.
-
Just paid for one A831 in size M.
-
I wonder what number we're at now
-
Hi, I'm interested in buying the frame in L size. I have sent a message to Eddy. I'll notify you here when it's confirmed and paid. Greetings
-
I wonder what number we're at now
Eddy said 16 paid for frames on Thursday.
-
Eddy said 16 paid for frames on Thursday.
Nice.. Just so everyone knows. I ordered a few weeks ago. So far Eddy has been very good communication wise.
Let's keep this going
-
Already ordered and paid one more in size L in raw carbon. Thank you Eddy.
-
Hi all, I too have ordered and paid for a M frame with no paint. Shout out to Eddy, i too had a great experience.
-
I just recently paid for my frame (Size S). Eddy confirmed the fork's crown does hit the frame on size S. He did not mention (and I did not ask) about this issue for the other sizes.
To solve this issue, within this thread a Reverse-components spacer or an Acros blocklock headset have been suggested. Hopefully, at least one of them works.
-
Pathetic. Everyone who has ordered a small should refund their frame unless they get a cup included.
The Acros headset won't work if the bike uses an IS headset, which from the photo it does.
-
Everybody is free to order or not - this is a group buy from OEM-manufacturer, not a real shop, online or local. So you have to make sure you know what you get.
Personally, even if you can add a spacer, I won't buy, as I am not confident in the engineering from a company that can't get a copy to work properly!
-
Thats true. I am kinda dissapointed in it. Atleast design a knock block guard of some sort. Didnt get to know about it untill i got to try my fork out.
Just fyi to anyone whom has this frame or still going ahead.
Mtbtools. Com has a custom spacer.
Minimum space needed is 6mm for a lyrik 42 offset.
6-10mm is fine.
Shock bsuhing spacer might have some free play which needed some 1mm shim.
-
From reading threads on other frames I gather issues are not uncommon, specially with early versions.
The fork interference issue was picked up pretty early on this thread and solutions were offered.
I went in expecting this issue so no regrets.
-
paid for a size M from eddy last week.
-
Ordered a medium.
I will use a FOX34 140mm fork with a 10mm crown spacer. For the rear I got a FOX DPX2 210x50mm, probably I will get 130-135mm rear travel.
-
x2 rear shock will not fit, correct?
-
x2 rear shock will not fit, correct?
Should be correct, yes.
-
Sweet!, Thank you. Does anyone know what the outer diameter of the headtube is? Emailed Eddy earlier today and haven't yet gotten a reply, but he probably just hasn't seen it yet or doesn't know. I'm going to have a custom head badge made up for the bike ( https://www.headbadges.com/store/p21/Steal_Your_Face.html but in a bronzy finish to match the kashima fork) but need that measurement beforehand. Also is anybody aware of whether there are any oddities relating to the seat tube? Like whether or not a normal dropper post, like the Fox Factory Transfer will fit in this frame? Does it require any special sizing or anything of the sort?
-
I want to order size small but i need to contact eddy he did not reply.
-
I’m still interested in a size small in color five, the orange, but THIS will NEVER not be funny to me:
https://imgur.com/a/bNM3MbH
-
Email Eddy and see if you can still get in. He is the point of contact at Haideli. His info is earlier in this thread.
-
Sent an email, but haven't heard anything yet. Glad this is getting off the ground though!
-
You can try going to the Haideli site and do a live chat. I think they have that feature. Just remember they are in China so the time zones will be way different.
-
He hasn't answered my emails since last week. I've been trying to get some questions answered and order one for over a month and really close and now he has gone silent. Takes a long time when have to wait a day for a reply and when ask 2 or 3 questions and only 1 gets answered.
I think companies could do really well selling direct to consumer but all Chinese companies provide a similar experience which makes it feel like a gamble and that things are being hidden or at least not transparent. And they make it too hard to order and with too many unknowns and too much time for people to second guess themselves and back out. If they would make some pretty simple changes to their selling 'methods' they could do much better. A website with a shopping cart and online purchases along with transparency and lots of info (and that doesn't change from day to day or person to person). Oh well...just rambling
-
I heard from Eddy today. He said frames were in production now.
-
How did you paid the frame to eddy?
-
How did you paid the frame to eddy?
PayPal
-
Hey all,
I just found out about this forum even though I’m already at two Chinese frame bought.
I just sent an email to eddy, hopefully I’m not too late this is exactly what I’m looking for to build next !
EDIT: Bought a Size Small in Raw Material from eddy via email/paypal
-
I just recently paid for my frame (Size S). Eddy confirmed the fork's crown does hit the frame on size S. He did not mention (and I did not ask) about this issue for the other sizes.
To solve this issue, within this thread a Reverse-components spacer or an Acros blocklock headset have been suggested. Hopefully, at least one of them works.
Sorry for 2x posting but another solution for fixing this could also be to use a 9point8 slackR bravo kit.
That’s what I’m planning to do since I want the bike to sit around 64hta
-
Is eddy from haideli the same eddy as eddscott who started this post? I assumed it was, didn't realize they were slightly different usernames, and assumed the ones we are purchasing from eddy at haideli were being manufactured by miracle. Is this a separate production run from haideli themselves, or is eddy at haideli contracting miracle for the order? Thanks!
-
Is eddy from haideli the same eddy as eddscott who started this post? I assumed it was, didn't realize they were slightly different usernames, and assumed the ones we are purchasing from eddy at haideli were being manufactured by miracle. Is this a separate production run from haideli themselves, or is eddy at haideli contracting miracle for the order? Thanks!
don´t know who is who. but i am 99% sure it doesn´t matter where you place your order. afaik you can place an order at winowsports, miracle bikes, top-fire and haideli bikes. all of them are selling the same frame which comes from one big manufacturing company we don´t know. that are my 2 cents.
-
don´t know who is who. but i am 99% sure it doesn´t matter where you place your order. afaik you can place an order at winowsports, miracle bikes, top-fire and haideli bikes. all of them are selling the same frame which comes from one big manufacturing company we don´t know. that are my 2 cents.
Aha! Thanks! I am so excited to receive the frame!
-
Can someone tell me if I'm crazy here. I like the idea about this bike and I'm considering building one up for my wife as she desperately needs a new ride.
Sizing opinion question: She's not the tallest, coming in at 5' 1". The sizes for this frame are up one from the Santa Cruz/Juliana bikes which means a Small AM 831 = a Medium SC. I'd typically go small but would one of these AM831 smalls work if built with 27.5 wheels rather than 29's?
Any advice appreciated & I realize going out and demoing some similar bikes would probably be the best way to answer this question, just wanted to get a few more opinions.
-
Your wife is the same height as mine. I recently ordered an Ican P1 in size XS for her. It is one of the few full suspension frames I could find made in a size for people in that height range. The small in the AM831 would be really big for her, since it is like a medium meant for 5’5” and up. I don’t think the wheel size change would help much except for stand over height. If you drop the tire size to a non plus size then pedal strike might be a problem (maybe use short cranks?).
If you are considering the P1 frame, the XS frame only takes a 27.5 wheel and lists a 2.1 max tire width.
-
Your wife is the same height as mine. I recently ordered an Ican P1 in size XS for her. It is one of the few full suspension frames I could find made in a size for people in that height range. The small in the AM831 would be really big for her, since it is like a medium meant for 5’5” and up. I don’t think the wheel size change would help much except for stand over height. If you drop the tire size to a non plus size then pedal strike might be a problem (maybe use short cranks?).
If you are considering the P1 frame, the XS frame only takes a 27.5 wheel and lists a 2.1 max tire width.
+1 here for the ican p1 in xs , my fiancé is 5” and I ordered her a xs
Also to comeback on the AM831 , is anyone got update on how’s the production going ?
-
I emailed Eddy 8 days ago inquiring about production and received this reply, "if we got any new progress and updated, then would keep you guys informed." His initial quote was that it would be shipping end of May. I'm hoping it's not delayed by too long.
-
I emailed Eddy 8 days ago inquiring about production and received this reply, "if we got any new progress and updated, then would keep you guys informed." His initial quote was that it would be shipping end of May. I'm hoping it's not delayed by too long.
I’m not too in a rush myself since I have other bikes to ride for the season but still good to hear some progress .. it’s always sketchy sending 700$ usd and hearing nothing for weeks lol
-
Small update from Eddy - small and medium frames will ship first. Frames still in production.
I don't expect to see my L before July.
-
This is my first build. I have a rear shock all ready to go but is there any way to know what shock mounting hardware we will need? Or do we need to wait to get the frame to measure it all?
-
This is my first build. I have a rear shock all ready to go but is there any way to know what shock mounting hardware we will need? Or do we need to wait to get the frame to measure it all?
I have noted 8*20 / 8*30 but I can’t remember from where I got that.
Someone might want to 2x check
-
Hi Everyone! I just purchased a M last night and am stoked. I have a question about how you guys plan on completing your build. I see that someone above mentioned that they were going to use a 140mm fork. The info at the beginning of the thread says that the fork travel size is 160. Forgive me for not understanding correctly, but wouldn't you need a 160mm fork? Or, does that mean something else? Thanks!
Dan
-
I have noted 8*20 / 8*30 but I can’t remember from where I got that.
Someone might want to 2x check
I am also interested in this. Does anyone know for sure?
-
Hi Everyone! I just purchased a M last night and am stoked. I have a question about how you guys plan on completing your build. I see that someone above mentioned that they were going to use a 140mm fork. The info at the beginning of the thread says that the fork travel size is 160. Forgive me for not understanding correctly, but wouldn't you need a 160mm fork? Or, does that mean something else? Thanks!
Dan
I think anything between 140-160 would be great.
For my part , I'm moving parts from my current custom commencal clash to this frame
I'm mulleting a small size frame btw
- Manitou Mezzer pro 29er travel reduced to 160mm
- Manitou Mara pro if it fits (please do please do) or a super deluxe in worst case scenario
- Tairins Wheel mk2 in mullet
- Dissector 2.4wt / Assegai 2.5wt
- SLX 12speed drivetrains
- Hope or TRP brakes
- Ergon saddle
- 150mm dropper post , oneUp or 9point8
not sure for the rest , I still have a year to think about it , not planning to ride this frame this year , also I'm getting a friend to airbrush the frame ,
Can't wait to have a build post going on !
Also about the hardware, I noted the hardware size from santa cruz hightower page, it's probably wrong
-
A mullet and a 160mm fork? Oof ow ouch my seat angle. Might be able to get around it by the nature of it being a small I suppose.
-
A mullet and a 160mm fork? Oof ow ouch my seat angle. Might be able to get around it by the nature of it being a small I suppose.
well it's kinda needed with being a full 29er built around a 150mm..
I'll mess around with it for sure since the mezzer let me change the travel internally but I feel at 150mm I'll get too many pedal strike.
my hope is that the mullet link made by cascade just fit so I can run that also. we'll see I'll guinea pig a lot I feel
-
I see that someone above mentioned that they were going to use a 140mm fork. The info at the beginning of the thread says that the fork travel size is 160. Forgive me for not understanding correctly, but wouldn't you need a 160mm fork?
SantaCruz says the minimum in their frame its 150mm, however, I will use a 140mm and a 10mm crown spacer to keep the geo.
I will use a 50mm rear shock to get about 135mm rear travel and make it a trail bike.
-
HI Guys iam from germany, is this AM831 Carbon frame good or not many people from german forum told me to not to buy this frame because he is not tested enough and not stable......
I wrote to a seller at alibaba.com and he said to me i can pay with paypal and the frame only without headset... costs only 540 $$
is the frame worth the money or does it break apart right away ??
GREETINGS from Germany :)
Alex
-
HI Guys iam from germany, is this AM831 Carbon frame good or not many people from german forum told me to not to buy this frame because he is not tested enough and not stable......
I wrote to a seller at alibaba.com and he said to me i can pay with paypal and the frame only without headset... costs only 540 $$
is the frame worth the money or does it break apart right away ??
GREETINGS from Germany :)
Alex
pretty sure at this point in time nobody knows for sure and it's kind of a gamble. time will tell.
-
pretty sure at this point in time nobody knows for sure and it's kind of a gamble. time will tell.
+1
Greetings back from germany
-
I'm expecting to have some hardware problems (hoping not hard to fix) but it won't break right away...
-
This is my first build. I have a rear shock all ready to go but is there any way to know what shock mounting hardware we will need? Or do we need to wait to get the frame to measure it all?
The best bet is to get specs when the frame ships - or the first people get their hands on them. Plan a couple weeks after the first ones arrive to see lists of which pivot bearings and sizes should get swapped out, shock mounting sizes, and any hardware changes needed.
-
Paid for a M frame from Eddy last night. Pretty excited to get this build going. Been riding an old giant nrs that was in my friends barn when he moved in.
-
Emailed Eddy for a Size L shipping to USA
Is there a color chart? I can't seem to be able to find it
Cheers!
-
Emailed Eddy for a Size L shipping to USA
Is there a color chart? I can't seem to be able to find it
Cheers!
Here you go
-
Here you go
In general they can do any color you want, as long as you provide the right Pantone or RAL reference.
Here is a sheet with Pantone ones: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UZ6UEuG95xwcYVxeFkX9yzxlZV7NgETX8P8weUrZIV4/edit?usp=sharing
Beware your screen will show a color differently than the real one.
Look for a color you like, and then search pictures with the reference on the web.
To see items painted in that color. Again this is false colors, but it gives a better idea.
And the best is to look at physical color chart in a paint shop for instance.
Then you can draw patterns, add sequins, or a metallic effect, etc. at extra cost.
-
In general they can do any color you want, as long as you provide the right Pantone or RAL reference.
Here is a sheet with Pantone ones: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1UZ6UEuG95xwcYVxeFkX9yzxlZV7NgETX8P8weUrZIV4/edit?usp=sharing
Beware your screen will show a color differently than the real one.
Look for a color you like, and then search pictures with the reference on the web.
To see items painted in that color. Again this is false colors, but it gives a better idea.
And the best is to look at physical color chart in a paint shop for instance.
Then you can draw patterns, add sequins, or a metallic effect, etc. at extra cost.
I requested a specific pantone color and was told by Eddy they could not, in fact do that. Only the 14 colors provided in the photo. I am therefore getting raw carbon and getting it painted myself.
-
Same thing happened when I asked about a specific color. Just their stock ones in glossy or matte or the chameleon color.
-
does anyone know if it is okay to leave the finish as raw carbon or do I need to put at least a clear coat over it for UV protection?
-
does anyone know if it is okay to leave the finish as raw carbon or do I need to put at least a clear coat over it for UV protection?
You will want to some type of clear coat over the carbon to protect the resin from degrading
-
Same thing happened when I asked about a specific color. Just their stock ones in glossy or matte or the chameleon color.
Alas... few years ago they were coming with their limited colors, but were ok to paint it in any color.
Other builders still do.
-
You will want to some type of clear coat over the carbon to protect the resin from degrading
Thanks! I asked Eddy about clear coat and he said they couldn't do it, so I just updated my order to arrive with matte black paint for the added protection. I decided I didn't feel like going through the hassle of painting it myself.
-
I'm planning my build right now and could use some ideas. What are you guys planning to use? I was thinking 150mm Pike Ultimate but don't know what rear shock to run.
Dan
-
I have a fox 36 fork at 150 mm and a fox dpx 2 (also 150 mm with the given spec). I am about to order a shimano xt 1x12 groupset for the drivetrain but literally the only thing holding back (as a first time bike builder) is whether or not to order a bottom bracket, and if not, if this groupset will be compatible with the provided bb. If anyone knows, please lmk!
-
I'm planning on using a 140mm Pike. With the added headset spacer or whatever underneath to solve small frame problems I'm not sure if I'll bump it to 150mm.
For rear shock I'll use a cheap takeoff 210x55 Float DPS and then decide later if it'll go up to a super deluxe.
-
Have we figured out if 150mm or 160mm fork is ideal? I know Haideli website says 150mm, but I seem to remember talk of 160mm being the better option. Itt's been so long, I can't even remember things we've already discussed about the bike.
I plan on getting a Suntour Durolux for the fork. I have a new Manitou McLeod ready to go on the back. I'm gonna try Microshift Advent X for the drivetrain. Still thinking about what wheelset to get.
-
Have we figured out if 150mm or 160mm fork is ideal? I know Haideli website says 150mm, but I seem to remember talk of 160mm being the better option. Itt's been so long, I can't even remember things we've already discussed about the bike.
I plan on getting a Suntour Durolux for the fork. I have a new Manitou McLeod ready to go on the back. I'm gonna try Microshift Advent X for the drivetrain. Still thinking about what wheelset to get.
sound similar to mine lol. I'm putting my Manitou Mezzer pro on it , will play around with 150 or 160 since I can change it internally.
Will get a mara pro if it fits or a mcload (I wanna run same branc front and rear for once in my life lol)
I have box three prime9 right now but I think I'll go back to shimano 11speed , clutch is gone on my derailler and just to pricey to switch to box two or one right now
-
I would go with a Mezzer, but the Durolux is much less expensive. I'd love to try a Mezzer, though. I was gonna do Mara, but someone on mtbr pointed out there were new McLeods on eBay going pretty cheap. When I looked the size was what is needed for this frame so I snagged one. Hope it is good.
-
I would go with a Mezzer, but the Durolux is much less expensive. I'd love to try a Mezzer, though. I was gonna do Mara, but someone on mtbr pointed out there were new McLeods on eBay going pretty cheap. When I looked the size was what is needed for this frame so I snagged one. Hope it is good.
Nice find on the mcload ! Might snag one also the .
Can’t go wrong with the durolux imo. Had an aion before and was surprisingly good. On the mezzer, it’s really amazing but I don’t use half of the settings on it lol. Got it use for 800$ cad so can’t complain
Edit: wen with you hint on ebay for manitou shocks, sent 3 kinda low baller offer on a mara and 2 mara pro. We’ll see if one bites
-
Nice find on the mcload ! Might snag one also the .
Can’t go wrong with the durolux imo. Had an aion before and was surprisingly good. On the mezzer, it’s really amazing but I don’t use half of the settings on it lol. Got it use for 800$ cad so can’t complain
Edit: wen with you hint on ebay for manitou shocks, sent 3 kinda low baller offer on a mara and 2 mara pro. We’ll see if one bites
Good luck with the bid! I would like a mezzer too, but no one has them!
-
Anyone got their AM831 frame already?
Excited to see post on your build updates! ;D
-
Hey all, just wanted to share that I bought in late (May 19th) with Eddy via PayPal. Looking forward to building my second custom build!
My first custom build was with an Airfox HT Highball clone off of Ebay (I outfitted it with a Fox 34 Factory off of marketplace, and a Sram NX groupset from my old bike)
I'm looking to put a Sram GX AXS groupset on this one, but those components and the custom wheelset I'm pricing out are sure adding up :o
Thanks for all of the discussion and help posted here, I'll share my build as I go!
-
Anyone got their AM831 frame already?
Excited to see post on your build updates! ;D
I don’t thin we’ll see them before July unfortunately :( not sure how production is going at this point but I don’t want to get my hope to high yet
-
.... the custom wheelset I'm pricing out are sure adding up :o
Thanks for all of the discussion and help posted here, I'll share my build as I go!
Have you checked out LightCarbon for your wheels?
-
I think they should be just around the corner. Got a quote from another seller on alibaba who said the frame would be on my doorstep in 1 month if I ordered today.
-
I think they should be just around the corner. Got a quote from another seller on alibaba who said the frame would be on my doorstep in 1 month if I ordered today.
That’s good news ! You guys think we’ll get a tracking number once it’s shipped ?
-
I'm not sure which i'd prefer more, lol. Getting a tracking number and impatiently waiting for it to get here, or just one day a big box on the door step?
-
I'm not sure which i'd prefer more, lol. Getting a tracking number and impatiently waiting for it to get here, or just one day a big box on the door step?
I would prefer the tracking so I can be at home the day it arrives, had my fair share of stolen packages sadly
-
i don´t think that we will see the frames soon ;D
-
I would prefer the tracking so I can be at home the day it arrives, had my fair share of stolen packages sadly
Same.
-
I don't know if this is new, but I saw WindowSports has some close-ups of the frame posted: http://www.winowsports.com/product/dual-suspension-150mm-travel-AM-Frame.html
-
Even that posting says 150mm travel, then later in the same posting says 140mm. This is making it hard to figure out if I need to get a 150mm fork or 160mm fork. I'm leaning towards 150mm, but I'm just not sure. I'd like to have the fork here when the frame gets here.
-
I don't know if this is new, but I saw WindowSports has some close-ups of the frame posted: http://www.winowsports.com/product/dual-suspension-150mm-travel-AM-Frame.html
Hmm I think a mara pro would actually fit looking at this. Hopefully someone we’ll have his soon and can measure piggy back clearance with a super deluxe so I can know how much more room there is.
At least we know it’s 100% bb92. I’ll probably get a wheelsmfg BB then,
-
Hmm I think a mara pro would actually fit looking at this. Hopefully someone we’ll have his soon and can measure piggy back clearance with a super deluxe so I can know how much more room there is.
At least we know it’s 100% bb92. I’ll probably get a wheelsmfg BB then,
What do you think about this one then? It sounds very promising: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/wheels-mfg-bb86-92-shimano-bottom-bracket-with-abec-3-bearings-threaded?CMP_ID=PD_GOc014BR&CSPID=0916&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PSBR&k_clickid=_k_Cj0KCQjwzYGGBhCTARIsAHdMTQySZZSgs_lhYp9Lz6yVNi4YlJJhFLLl_34VpVij5XJPKDNqfFqL1lIaApkiEALw_wcB_k_&utm_id=go_cmp-1594365579_adg-58724162045_ad-442975611088_dsa-538846107067_dev-c_ext-_prd-&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzYGGBhCTARIsAHdMTQySZZSgs_lhYp9Lz6yVNi4YlJJhFLLl_34VpVij5XJPKDNqfFqL1lIaApkiEALw_wcB
-
What do you think about this one then? It sounds very promising: https://www.competitivecyclist.com/wheels-mfg-bb86-92-shimano-bottom-bracket-with-abec-3-bearings-threaded?CMP_ID=PD_GOc014BR&CSPID=0916&utm_source=Google&utm_medium=PSBR&k_clickid=_k_Cj0KCQjwzYGGBhCTARIsAHdMTQySZZSgs_lhYp9Lz6yVNi4YlJJhFLLl_34VpVij5XJPKDNqfFqL1lIaApkiEALw_wcB_k_&utm_id=go_cmp-1594365579_adg-58724162045_ad-442975611088_dsa-538846107067_dev-c_ext-_prd-&gclid=Cj0KCQjwzYGGBhCTARIsAHdMTQySZZSgs_lhYp9Lz6yVNi4YlJJhFLLl_34VpVij5XJPKDNqfFqL1lIaApkiEALw_wcB
yup that's exactly what I was thinking of getting
-
The reviews on that bb look very hit or miss. I'd much rather just cough up the extra $50 for Shimano.
-
Do you think the Sram Dub will be as good as the shimano? I'm probably buying the Sram GX Eagle Carbon crankset.
-
Most likely getting the ztto one and will immediately replace with better quality bearings
-
Do you think the Sram Dub will be as good as the shimano? I'm probably buying the Sram GX Eagle Carbon crankset.
I have a pf92 sram dub on my Commencal right now, so far so good , no creaks
-
Just ordered an slx groupset with an included shimano xt pressfit sm-bb800-pa for the bottom bracket. Curious what you guys are going for for dropper posts, if you are installing one. I am thinking about the trans-x kitsuma 31.6x170mm to save a buck.
-
I was thinking about the oneup. Not sure about the length though. Might wait until the frame arrives before I order one.
-
I hope to move my PNW dropper over.
-
Was going to go Brand X or X-Fusion.
-
Got a 150 Brand X from Chain Reaction. It was relatively cheap and the people I know that have them really like them.
-
I messaged Xiamen Top-Fire Sports on Alibaba to ask if the frames were completed and in their possession yet, since we have not been getting very detailed updates, and received this response:
"Hi, Mike The frames were finished. But we found some error on the rear triangle, we are modifying."
-
If they are late, they will invent any reason you are able to believe.
Just relax, while waiting they build your frame(s).
Bugging them regularly won't help your cause.
-
that's why i asked a company other than the one i ordered from lol. but you're probably right.
-
You guys think they’ll add water bottle mount ? I see none in all frame render/photos that have been posted yet.
I have a ganite aux waterbottle cage with strap in case but I would prefer using bolt on
-
You guys think they’ll add water bottle mount ? I see none in all frame render/photos that have been posted yet.
I have a ganite aux waterbottle cage with strap in case but I would prefer using bolt on
There's a water bottle mount above the shock on the downtube.
-
There's a water bottle mount above the shock on the downtube.
Right, Just looked in the other thread for photos and there's water bottle mount.
Also saw that there's only 2 holes for chainguide, not 3 like ISG-05. another thing to note
-
Also saw that there's only 2 holes for chainguide, not 3 like ISG-05. another thing to note
That's pretty common these days. Still takes most bash/guide combos, but I probably wouldn't trust it to handle an ISG-05 mounted front derailleur!
-
So I didn’t want to bother Eddy more but I’ve asked him if we’ll get a tracking # once frame are shipped and he confirmed that yes.
I think they are trying to fix an issue with the rear triangle as the video that Eddy attached to his last emails doesn’t show a rear triangle in it.
Oh well, your frame is somewhere in there, almost complete :)
Edit : for mobile user : https://imgur.com/a/XL4th74
Cheers !
-
Confused as to what the actual travel is on this frame. Haidei's Alibaba product page says 160 front/150 rear, but I have seen 140mm and 150mm front travel elsewhere?
Can someone clarify?
-
Confused as to what the actual travel is on this frame. Haidei's Alibaba product page says 160 front/150 rear, but I have seen 140mm and 150mm front travel elsewhere?
Can someone clarify?
Eddy from haideli confirmed 150 rear and front.
-
Hmm i just realized my fox 36 fork is gloss black and I ordered the frame in matte black. Do you guys think that will clash too much, and maybe I should change my order to glossy, or do you think it will look okay?
-
Also. Eddy said there was a "metallic" color available. Does anyone know what that looks like?
-
Hmm i just realized my fox 36 fork is gloss black and I ordered the frame in matte black. Do you guys think that will clash too much, and maybe I should change my order to glossy, or do you think it will look okay?
imo matte frame and glossy fork give a nice little extra touch ! i like that. i got myself a shiny orange fox 36 and frame is ys 804 matte finish.
-
imo matte frame and glossy fork give a nice little extra touch ! i like that. i got myself a shiny orange fox 36 and frame is ys 804 matte finish.
shiny orange or another color i KNOW would look great. and thank you for your insight, i do hope you're right. I was just thinking because they are both black it might looks like it's just incorrectly matched or something.
-
Also. Eddy said there was a "metallic" color available. Does anyone know what that looks like?
These were the color options. 3, 4 ,5 look metallic. I got 3, I think it's going to look nice with a black fox 36 fork
-
I had an order in for the metallic orange. I'd post a picture of the color on another frame , but I don't know how to post pictures. If you Google search "Tideace bike orange" you can see the color on another frame. Eddie said it was $30 for that metallic color.
I chickened out on it, though, and went with matte orange. That was also $30. I wish I could choose the Pantone, though. I want a really light yellowish orange like the Deviate Highlander or the new Capra Core model. I don't really know what the orange I'll get looks like.
-
I had an order in for the metallic orange. I'd post a picture of the color on another frame , but I don't know how to post pictures. If you Google search "Tideace bike orange" you can see the color on another frame. Eddie said it was $30 for that metallic color.
I chickened out on it, though, and went with matte orange. That was also $30. I wish I could choose the Pantone, though. I want a really light yellowish orange like the Deviate Highlander or the new Capra Core model. I don't really know what the orange I'll get looks like.
i think number 12 is kind of a matte orange, no?
-
I think you could go with any of the normal colors in glossy, or pay a little more and choose matte. Eddie also said they could do metallic in a few colors and the color shift style in a couple.
-
For anyone still on the fence, I emailed Eddy to order at the group price and he confirmed that they are no longer honoring the price for new purchases. It makes sense, I am a little late to the whole thing now :-\
Quote was for USD699 + $120 Shipping + $30 Paypal fee
Still a great price IMO.
Cheers!
-
IMO if you didnt get in on the buy, it's best to wait to see the quality of the product at the regular price!
As for colours, I'll be pretty disappointed if no one goes for #11. I'll be doing raw carbon as I'll be painting it myself. Here's an instinct I just finished for reference, although I'll probably be doing a different colour combo!
-
If no11 looked more like that that's exactly the one I would have chosen. That's exactly what I wanted at first but ended with matte black as I didn't feel like.goimg through the hassle of getting it Painted myself and no11 is a lot more blue than that. Looks great btw!
-
Hey guys,
So I had a question regarding the fox dpx2 shock I acquired for this build. I got it off of ebay as a take-off from a stumpjumper evo, which has a significantly different linkage system than the HT. Should I send this in to fox to have it re-tuned (they quoted $175), or should I just try with it the way that it is and see if it works well enough? Any experience in this regard is greatly appreciated!
-
I'd give it a whirl first, although if it's been used a bit before being taken off, I'd just get the service done as it'll be way better either way.
If you want, you can compare the Rockshox tunes between stumpy evo and the hightower, as Rockshox uses letter codes between base tunes that'll help differentiate them. You'll have to do some research and see what each bike is. It'll look something like M/M or L/M or so for each shock.
-
It's only been ridden about 5 times, still looks new, so I don't think it needs a service just yet. And thanks! I'll look into that.
-
I'm super psyched about this build. I'm trying to be as patient as possible, but it's eating me up! So, I ordered the rest of my parts and they will start getting here next week. No idea when the frame will get here but this is what I'm doing so far:
Wheels - BLTOS i-30 carbon 28H with dt swiss 350's and upgraded 54T ratchet
Fork - Rockshox Pike Ultimate 150mm
Shock - Manitou McLeod
Brakes - XT M8000
Derailleur & Shifter - GX Eagle
Cassette - X01 Eagle
Cranks - GX carbon
Dropper - Oneup V2
Dropper lever - PNW Loam
Bar - Oneup Carbon
Stem - PNW Range
Saddle - Ergon SM Pro
Tires - Rekon front, Rekon Race back ( not positive about this yet)
Oneup EDC threadless carrier and V2 tool.
What are you guys doing?
-
Fork - 2021 Fox 36 Factory Grip2 150mm w/ Kashima coating in matte black
Shock - Fox DPX2 210x55mm (takeoff from a stumpjumper evo)
Handlebars - Enve M6 25mm rise x 780mm length
Stem- Salsa Guide 40mm
Drivetrain - Shimano SLX M7100
Chainring - Absolute black 32T oval chainring
Cranks - Shimano SLX 165mm
Chain - KMC gold chain
Seatpost - Oneup 180mm dropper (still deciding on this one), not sure how deep of a dropper the frame can fit, and also may get a kashima fox transfer to match the fork if I can find a good second hand deal.
Brakes - SRAM Code R
Rotors - haven't decided yet but im thinking 200mm front and back if the frame can accommodate it.
Saddle - Charge Spoon brown saddle
Grips - Deity knucklebuster gum color
Wheels - some cheap aluminum ($300) specialized wheelset that was a takeoff from a stumpjumper with shimano hubs
Crown spacer - whatever 6mm is in stock when im building
Headset - Oneup EDC v2
Pedals - Raceface Chester mint color, although these may clash, and i may go for black in the end or the deity bronze pedals
Tires - Maxxis Minion DHR II front and back with gum color sidewalls, 2.4 in back and 2.6 up front.
Got the frame and fork in matte black; going for a matte black, brown, and gold color scheme. I think it should look very tasteful.
... and I can relate the anticipation is killing me!
-
Also I wonder if this thing will fit on this frame, I might try it out and see..
https://cascadecomponents.bike/collections/santa-cruz-linkages/products/hightower-v2-lt-link?variant=35723969364122
-
Also I wonder if this thing will fit on this frame, I might try it out and see..
https://cascadecomponents.bike/collections/santa-cruz-linkages/products/hightower-v2-lt-link?variant=35723969364122
Pretty certain I've read elsewhere in this forum that the cascade link won't work this frame, unfortunately. Don't think anyone has actually tried though so if you decide to do so, please do share the results!
-
ahh shoot i think you're right. I may just have a local bike tech take a look first and tell me if he thinks it's possible too. thanks for the head's up!
-
ahh shoot i think you're right. I may just have a local bike tech take a look first and tell me if he thinks it's possible too. thanks for the head's up!
A local bike tech won't be able to tell you if it's any good unless they can compare a stock SC hightower link with the one we're going to pull from here. You'd need to have them side by side for any meaningful comparison. The Cascade link is pretty pricey to not know.
-
A local bike tech won't be able to tell you if it's any good unless they can compare a stock SC hightower link with the one we're going to pull from here. You'd need to have them side by side for any meaningful comparison. The Cascade link is pretty pricey to not know.
Oh I know, was thinking of buying it, bringing it to a tech, and having them have a good look at the two before installation. If it wont work, I wouldn't install and would send back. I'm going to tell cascade that is my intention before buying, and hoping they will play ball.
On another topic, so we know that this has no flip chip. Are we thinking the geo will be more similar to the hightower v2 in the high or low configuration?
-
Oh I know, was thinking of buying it, bringing it to a tech, and having them have a good look at the two before installation. If it wont work, I wouldn't install and would send back. I'm going to tell cascade that is my intention before buying, and hoping they will play ball.
On another topic, so we know that this has no flip chip. Are we thinking the geo will be more similar to the hightower v2 in the high or low configuration?
Geo is the same as the santa cruz high configuration.
-
Thanks eglaucher!
-
You guys think a M can fit a 200mm fox dropper? I have someone locally who can give me a great deal second hand, but I don't know if there will be enough room.
-
Just joined the forum, ordering an AM 831, they promise reasonable shipping time; we will see.
What I don't understand is why it looks like many people ordered the frame but apparently nobody has received it or reviewed it; so I'm buying blind, the frame is cheaper than a branded one but not cheap in absolute. 9 years ago I bought an hardtail frame and I'm still using it and I'm satisfied; full suspension has much more mechanics and things that could be wrong.
finger crossed...
-
Just joined the forum, ordering an AM 831, they promise reasonable shipping time; we will see.
What I don't understand is why it looks like many people ordered the frame but apparently nobody has received it or reviewed it; so I'm buying blind, the frame is cheaper than a branded one but not cheap in absolute. 9 years ago I bought an hardtail frame and I'm still using it and I'm satisfied; full suspension has much more mechanics and things that could be wrong.
finger crossed...
It is because they haven't been manufactured yet. As far as I can tell front triangles are done, but there was an issue with the rear and they are fixing it before sending the frames out.
-
We hope that we will start to receive shipping notices soon. How soon? We don't know. Before the rear triangle issue, they were projecting shipments to start in mid June. I think we're getting much closer to the finish line. Time will tell.
Dan
-
Ahhh OK. So nobody has received it yet; anyway better that they solve the problem rather than send defective frames. I'm placing my order now and they promise mid July shipping, that it is not so bad if it will be real :-X .
About the bike... I have an old full suspended specialized 26" and this will be a big step ahead for sure; before falling in love with this frame my idea was to build an hardcore hardtail; the santa china is gonna be miles ahead in downhill performance, but what about uphill? I'm planning to keep the total weight around 13 kg that it isn't terrible, but the effect of the modern geometry plus possible pedaling bobbing I'll see on the field .
Anybody can recommend a rear shock with proper total lockout?
-
Ahhh OK. So nobody has received it yet; anyway better that they solve the problem rather than send defective frames. I'm placing my order now and they promise mid July shipping, that it is not so bad if it will be real :-X .
About the bike... I have an old full suspended specialized 26" and this will be a big step ahead for sure; before falling in love with this frame my idea was to build an hardcore hardtail; the santa china is gonna be miles ahead in downhill performance, but what about uphill? I'm planning to keep the total weight around 13 kg that it isn't terrible, but the effect of the modern geometry plus possible pedaling bobbing I'll see on the field .
Anybody can recommend a rear shock with proper total lockout?
Now you make me wonder if we’ll all get our frame shipped mid july or if earlier buyer will get them sooner hmmm
-
Ahhh OK. So nobody has received it yet; anyway better that they solve the problem rather than send defective frames. I'm placing my order now and they promise mid July shipping, that it is not so bad if it will be real :-X .
About the bike... I have an old full suspended specialized 26" and this will be a big step ahead for sure; before falling in love with this frame my idea was to build an hardcore hardtail; the santa china is gonna be miles ahead in downhill performance, but what about uphill? I'm planning to keep the total weight around 13 kg that it isn't terrible, but the effect of the modern geometry plus possible pedaling bobbing I'll see on the field .
Anybody can recommend a rear shock with proper total lockout?
Given the position of the shock, a remote actuated shock would be really cool for a build like you're describing. Both Rockshox and Fox versions that are actuated via remote have a very solid platform.
-
I'm super psyched about this build. ...
What are you guys doing?
That looks like it will be a solid build.
I'm swapping a few parts over from my current bike, mostly the Lyrik Ultimate and carbon wheelset. The rest is on its way. Went full XT groupset, KS dropper and the Syncros copy integrated bar/stem. I still need to get a rear shock and a seat. I'll be selling the Seraph FM356 I built last summer once the new bike is done.
-
As the wait is long we can meanwhile share ideas about the build; I want to do a light build to make it capable to go uphill, I believe the possibilities of this bikes will exceed my skills downhill so I don't need to work too much on this.
My idea is to do 150-150 mm excursion, fork maybe a Pike, rear whatever is light, cheap and locks properly; for the wheels I was thinking actionsport.de , funworks 28 mm alloy rims and hubs, approx 500 eur and around 1650 grams, but now I discovered BTLOS carbon wheels, more expensive but probably they worth the extra money. Some other ideas for wheels? Favourite chinese company?
Groupset I prefer shimano XT, brakes also XT or formula cura; I see nice knockoff saddles on aliexpress, are they acceptable?
-
Lightcarbon makes great wheelsets at affordable prices.
-
have a set of ican 35id wheels, seem really well built
-
I ordered some Silt wheels for mine.
-
i got some custom stuff from a local whell manufacturer. carbon-ti x-hub sp boost hubs, full sapim cx ray for front wheel and sapim cx ray + sapim sprint for the rear wheel. and duke crazy star rims.
-
There may be a better place to ask this, but I will be needing to purchase some tools for this build as well. Can anyone recommend a relatively inexpensive toolset that will provide most of what I will need for a bike build? Or a list of the tools needed? Or perhaps just point me in the right direction? I'm taking this on as a fun project and also so that I will understand all of the workings of my new bike build, so that I will be better prepared to provide my own maintenance and repairs when the time comes. Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
was thinking maybe something along the lines of this...
https://www.amazon.com/Bikehand-Quality-Bike-Bicycle-Repair/dp/B01N07NZ2R/ref=asc_df_B01N07NZ2R/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=242055571124&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6099126133571840118&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031947&hvtargid=pla-464656180002&psc=1
or if that is not enough maybe this one...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01GJYME6I/ref=sspa_dk_detail_2?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B01GJYME6I&pd_rd_w=lF2zL&pf_rd_p=80360d1c-2d74-4d2e-9034-f92fb5248b33&pd_rd_wg=x65Fk&pf_rd_r=1XCYFM4WNV1RQBR6N47X&pd_rd_r=4e9ca925-9deb-4558-b630-1f62ffc51a5b&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUExU0c5WFg4VVU1R0pMJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwODAwMzQxQ1M2R0ROS1pRVkhFJmVuY3J5cHRlZEFkSWQ9QTA1ODU2ODczNVA1VzIwM1UxUDg2JndpZGdldE5hbWU9c3BfZGV0YWlsJmFjdGlvbj1jbGlja1JlZGlyZWN0JmRvTm90TG9nQ2xpY2s9dHJ1ZQ==
-
Some people says and warns that to build a bike you need "hundreds of dollars of special tools". in my experience isn't like this: give that you have a normal tool set at home all I needed last time was the insert to lock the cassette, the insert for the bottom bracket and the cut chain tool: nothing else, total cost 30 usd maybe less.
You will need again these tools for bike maintenance.
(fork stem could be cutted with a hack saw and leveled with a file, star nut inserted with a screw driver and hammer; if you need to push in headset two washers and a long bolt)
-
rather than doing a hack job at installing a star nut, press fit BB, or headset, just pay a little bit of money to your LBS. Job done with proper tools, no problem. Do almost everything else yourself.
-
Is this still ongoing? Looking for a L frame and want to get in on it (USA).
-
Is this still ongoing? Looking for a L frame and want to get in on it (USA).
Contact eddy from haideli, he’s our point of contact. I think you might have a chance to squeeze in , someone here orderer one last week still
-
Is this still ongoing? Looking for a L frame and want to get in on it (USA).
Negative. I have confirmation from him that any purchases at this time will NOT be on the group buy deal. It's still a great deal though, he quoted USD $699 for the frame + $120 Shipping + $30 Paypal fee.
Cheers!
-
Keeping the hype up as there's nothing to do other than comment and wait right now.
Ordered some ZTTO goodies for the frame as a lot of people on the forum had good things to say about the company
- ZTTO Chain Guide
- ZTTO BB92 Threaded cup bottom bracket
- ZTTO dropper seat post lever
- ZTTO Ice Rotor 203mm
I've ordered a couple de tools that I wanted as the same times (hanger aligment tools, internal routing,BB socket,hydrolic needle tool)
Still debatting what wheelset I'll put on it
-
My BTLOS wheelset should be here soon. I'll throw them on my XC bike and see how they feel. I have high hopes for them.
-
My BTLOS wheelset should be here soon. I'll throw them on my XC bike and see how they feel. I have high hopes for them.
I’m considering them also. Which hub you went with ? I’m also considering light carbon option with dt350
-
Lightcarbon with DT350s here - no complaints.
-
I’m considering them also. Which hub you went with ? I’m also considering light carbon option with dt350
This is the build that I ordered:
WM-i30AS
-series: Premium
-Version: AM
-finish: glossy
-weave -12k
-hub: DT-350 with 54T ratched upgrade
- spoke count 28/28H
-Spoke: Sapim CX-Ray
looked good on paper, I'll let you know how they roll.
-
While waiting for the Haideli frame (any updates about production & shipping?) I am scouting the market for the wheels; my idea is also 30 mm inner width carbon rim and DT350 hubs.
BTLOS and lightbicycle are the most reviewed and so the most expensive: well over 1000 $ with shipping.
I got a quote from xmcarbon.cn and https://www.carbonal.com.cn/ for the same setup for around 800$ shipped; if the quality is also cheaper I don't know.
I can just say that in 2013 I bought an hardtail frame and carbon wheels from carbonal and I am still using the bike, no failures, no complains.
-
I don't know who noticed this:
https://haidelibicycle.en.alibaba.com/product/1600232038602-825866874/NEW_Upgraded_29er_boost_T1000_Full_Suspension_Bike_Carbon_Frame_MTB_Disc_brake_mountain_bicycle_frame_29.html?spm=a2700.shop_index.89.2.29214766xxZ3JX
Haideli sells "NEW Upgraded 29er boost T1000 Full Suspension..." so, is this the version that solves the issues and that we will eventually receive?
They claim the carbon is T1000, which is stronger but very seldom used due to price; And it is brittle.
40 days shipping time they say.
-
I don't know who noticed this:
https://haidelibicycle.en.alibaba.com/product/1600232038602-825866874/NEW_Upgraded_29er_boost_T1000_Full_Suspension_Bike_Carbon_Frame_MTB_Disc_brake_mountain_bicycle_frame_29.html?spm=a2700.shop_index.89.2.29214766xxZ3JX
Haideli sells "NEW Upgraded 29er boost T1000 Full Suspension..." so, is this the version that solves the issues and that we will eventually receive?
They claim the carbon is T1000, which is stronger but very seldom used due to price; And it is brittle.
40 days shipping time they say.
My guess is that they mean it's an upgrade from other completely different previously released mtb frames that they sell, just a hunch.
-
There is a shop near me that does carbon repair and can do x-ray service on frames (spyder composites). I am thinking about reaching out to them for a quote on an X-ray and, depending on price, getting the scan done on the frame when I receive it and sharing the results here to give us all a better idea of the integrity of the frame before we all send it on the trails. Let me guys know what you think, and whether or not it would be completely unnecessary or useless and something I should just not do.
-
While waiting for the Haideli frame (any updates about production & shipping?) I am scouting the market for the wheels; my idea is also 30 mm inner width carbon rim and DT350 hubs.
BTLOS and lightbicycle are the most reviewed and so the most expensive: well over 1000 $ with shipping.
I got a quote from xmcarbon.cn and https://www.carbonal.com.cn/ for the same setup for around 800$ shipped; if the quality is also cheaper I don't know.
I can just say that in 2013 I bought an hardtail frame and carbon wheels from carbonal and I am still using the bike, no failures, no complains.
Something interesting I noticed on that listing though is that it looks as though they may be offering custom paint/color options. "tell us color number" could just mean of the few colors we were shown here though.
-
There is a shop near me that does carbon repair and can do x-ray service on frames (spyder composites). I am thinking about reaching out to them for a quote on an X-ray and, depending on price, getting the scan done on the frame when I receive it and sharing the results here to give us all a better idea of the integrity of the frame before we all send it on the trails. Let me guys know what you think, and whether or not it would be completely unnecessary or useless and something I should just not do.
That would be very helpful for the community!
-
There is a shop near me that does carbon repair and can do x-ray service on frames (spyder composites). I am thinking about reaching out to them for a quote on an X-ray and, depending on price, getting the scan done on the frame when I receive it and sharing the results here to give us all a better idea of the integrity of the frame before we all send it on the trails. Let me guys know what you think, and whether or not it would be completely unnecessary or useless and something I should just not do.
This may be only about your own frame,
If it is good, it doesn't mean all are good.
And if it has a defect, it doesn't mean all have it either.
I would save this money on some shiny components :)
-
i think i will open a paypal case on 20th august because my paypal protection is running out. don´t know if we will ever received this frame in the future...
-
I ordered in June they said mid july shipping, I am afraid it is not going to happen. I will write them after 15th.
Can we recap here everybody order date and promised shipping date?
-
i ordered at the end of february via top fire sports equipment. promising shipping date was may. same bullshit...
-
I ordered in June they said mid july shipping, I am afraid it is not going to happen. I will write them after 15th.
Can we recap here everybody order date and promised shipping date?
I ordered may 11th, I didn’t ask for a shipping e.t.a as I knew I would ride the frame this season but built it during winter here.
I’m not even sure I have paypal protection on it so let’s hope everything goes well with haideli :-X
-
I ordered in June they said mid july shipping, I am afraid it is not going to happen. I will write them after 15th.
Can we recap here everybody order date and promised shipping date?
Based on my past experiences with them, Haideli is a serious company.
Just realize it is not a usual LBS, you are your own importer, and delays may happen.
Especially with the cycling market still under tension.
Add to this the cultural difference that Chinese people will prefer to avoid direct confrontation in case of trouble, making it more opaque for us than it could be.
Just relax, and wait a little more, you'll get the frames.
-
Good to hear positive feedback on Haideli. Moreover given the lack of components even if we'd receive the frame today it's going to take long to find the parts.
I fell in love with this frame, but after reading this forum and elsewhere if you want something that is ready, widely tested and proven of a good quality you should go with ICAN P9.
I don't like P9 geometry, not very slack and long chainstay; probably you can improve it building a mullet bike. How much our frame is better than the P9 for the amateur rider like I am I don't know, maybe it would be the same.
Ok, let's relax and wait for the frames; I'll keep you posted about what Haideli will answer me after 15th, my promised shipping date.
-
Dear All:
Really sorry for the dealying of the shipping.
We must keep the frame in perfect quality so the production being a little long the expecting.
Now size S being done and painted, so the guys who ordered S would be first to got the frame first.
Then one by one, and we would keep you informed the picture of the painting and the shipping date also the tracking number.
Now the groupbuy price have been ended, USD699/set excluded the shipping fee is the price for the sample order.
Many thanks for your supporting and understanding.
And we are always here, so any question feel free to contact me by email, since sometimes i will missed the message on forums.
Thanks
Haideli Eddy.
-
Dear All:
Really sorry for the dealying of the shipping.
We must keep the frame in perfect quality so the production being a little long the expecting.
Now size S being done and painted, so the guys who ordered S would be first to got the frame first.
Then one by one, and we would keep you informed the picture of the painting and the shipping date also the tracking number.
Now the groupbuy price have been ended, USD699/set excluded the shipping fee is the price for the sample order.
Many thanks for your supporting and understanding.
And we are always here, so any question feel free to contact me by email, since sometimes i will missed the message on forums.
Thanks
Haideli Eddy.
Are you still targeting a july ship date for the small frame then ?
Thanks for the follow-up
-
Now size S being done and painted, so the guys who ordered S would be first to got the frame first.
One of the few times I'm happy to be on the shorter side of things! ;D
-
Well that sucks. I ordered mine in matte orange, and I just saw the one of the new colors for this year's Hightower is matte orange. I really didn't want my bike to look like I'm trying to copy a Santa Cruz.
-
If your bike hasn't been produced yet I think you are still on time to change your mind. Any news from the small size guys?Frame on the way or not yet?
By coincidence I also ordered a kind of matte orange; I don't care what santa cruz does.
-
Well that sucks. I ordered mine in matte orange, and I just saw the one of the new colors for this year's Hightower is matte orange. I really didn't want my bike to look like I'm trying to copy a Santa Cruz.
you know, more than it already clearly copies the 'Cruz.
-
But I'm not one of those guys that are trying to make it look like a Hightower. There are people on here buying decals for their frames to make it look like they have whatever brand's top model. That's not me. It doesn't bother me if you want to do that. If you do, go for it. Whatever. But I'd rather not go that route.
I chose orange because it's my favorite color. So I'm not disappointed at all, just wish Santa Cruz chose a different color. Whatever I guess.
-
Anyone decided to email Eddy recently ?
it's been two weeks since last info
-
I emailed Eddy over the weekend.
He claimed my frame (small) was currently being painted and should be "It would be around 10-15 working days to your place." for what it's worth
-
I emailed Eddy over the weekend.
He claimed my frame (small) was currently being painted and should be "It would be around 10-15 working days to your place." for what it's worth
And here I thought that choosing to get the frame not painted would mean a faster shipping time :-\
Oh well 2 more weeks…. Ish probably
-
Did I see somewhere that the 2022 Hightower model was released just a few days ago? Coincidence? ;)
The geometry still looks almost identical
https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/bikes/hightower
-
Hello:
Have a nice day.
Really thanks for the supporting and understanding.
The shipping would be started arranged now for the groupbuy order, so if you got the change of the address, then please contact me by email ASAP.
eddy@haidelibicycle.com
And if have any new need for the frame, also feel free to contact me at any time.
Thanks
Eddy
-
Customized painting available,thanks.
eddy@haidelibicycle.com
-
Hello:
Have a nice day.
Really thanks for the supporting and understanding.
The shipping would be started arranged now for the groupbuy order, so if you got the change of the address, then please contact me by email ASAP.
eddy@haidelibicycle.com
And if have any new need for the frame, also feel free to contact me at any time.
Thanks
Eddy
That’s some great news today ! Can’t wait to see all the build post coming up in the next weeks !
-
Same! Finally getting excited for this. I'm not sure if it was ever confirmed but I'm hoping to finally see if a cascade link will fit.
-
Looking forward to seeing how these turn out, could be my next build.
-
Can't wait to get the shipping notification. I just need a RD and shifter and I'm good to go. I really wish that the GX Eagle shifters would come back in stock.
-
Just ordered one since I cracked the chainstay on my FM356. I missed the group buy but I figured I would ask here since most of you here have probably already considered some of these -
What are you guys going to do for downtube protection? That is a lot of real estate and I don't think one of the generic 1mm thick sticker types will do. Maybe this RAAW one will work https://raawmtb.com/collections/accessories/products/downtube-guard. If the HT one fits it could be double sided taped since this frame doesn't have the bosses to mount it.
I've been looking, are there any bash guards that work with just the front two ISCG05? I mean, that is a really odd design decision, but whatever.
Has seat tube insertion depth be mentioned for the sizes? I couldn't find it while searching.
Oh, out of curiosity is it actually 200mm rear rotor or 180mm? The different Ali sellers can't seem to agree on specs for the same frame.
-
Just ordered one since I cracked the chainstay on my FM356. I missed the group buy but I figured I would ask here since most of you here have probably already considered some of these -
What are you guys going to do for downtube protection? That is a lot of real estate and I don't think one of the generic 1mm thick sticker types will do. Maybe this RAAW one will work https://raawmtb.com/collections/accessories/products/downtube-guard. If the HT one fits it could be double sided taped since this frame doesn't have the bosses to mount it.
I've been looking, are there any bash guards that work with just the front two ISCG05? I mean, that is a really odd design decision, but whatever.
Has seat tube insertion depth be mentioned for the sizes? I couldn't find it while searching.
Oh, out of curiosity is it actually 200mm rear rotor or 180mm? The different Ali sellers can't seem to agree on specs for the same frame.
Downtube : probably getting protectors directly from santa cruz
Insertion: no idea yet waiting on the frame. Size small amd I have a PNW loam 170mm for it
Rear pm : 180mm for sure
-
If they're sticking to HT dimensions for everything then this is max insertion length straight from santa cruz
-
If they're sticking to HT dimensions for everything then this is max insertion length straight from santa cruz
Thanks. Funny thing is I found that while trying to find the current generation HT specs as that is for the previous frame design. I only see people saying that the new one is a bit shorter with no real numbers so I'll probably send an email to Eddy and see if someone can measure the different frame sizes.
-
Kydex + heat gun = custom down tube protector in your color of choice.
-
Scourge, I wonder if that is your orange frame in Eddys' pic above?
-
I use kayak keel guard for my downtube, flexible, good protection, inexpensive, works great.
-
Dear All:
I am eddy the sales manager from Haideli.
By over serveral months efforts, the frame FS-AM831 all mountain frame being done.
We have made many tests ensure that in high quality and without issues.
Now being shipped to the customers, on the April and May we have made a groupbuy for the mold FS-AM831.
Some of you in Chinertown got the order and some missed it.
Do not worried, the New Groupbuy 30sets order being started.
First, we are really thanks for all the supporting and understanding of our working and goods.
Due to your help and patient, the frame finally being done, attached some customized painting for your reference.
The new groupbuy order price is USD679/set not included shipping fee.
Customized color and logo available.
For the shipping, we got Hong Kong Post(HKEMS), Some europe contry free tax shipping way (WXY), expressing shipping like DHL, FEDEX, UPS.
And payment for paypal, Banktransfer, Visa accepted.
If you got any question or order for the frame, feel free to contact me at any time.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
wechat: zhuyongeddy
Facebook: Yong Zhu
Whatsapp/ Tel: +86 18475368733
Many thanks.
Best wishes.
Eddy
-
Has anyone received a shipping email yet ?
-
No shipping email yet.
But on a side note- Eddy sent some pics of the lower link. Still need to measure it but by the looks of it the stock SC or cascade link may fit
-
I've gotten a tracking number from Eddie a few days ago. Frame is on its way to the US from Hong Kong
-
Still need to measure it but by the looks of it the stock SC or cascade link may fit
Their link looks a little longer between bearings with my shitty eyeballing. Left is Cascade, Right is stock SC 2020 (from a youtube video).
-
Their link looks a little longer between bearings with my shitty eyeballing. Left is Cascade, Right is stock SC 2020 (from a youtube video).
Fingers crossed your eyeballing is wrong haha but unfortunately, looking at your image and the one he sent me, I think you're right. Seems a bit longer between the bearings.
-
One advantage to later shipping on larger frames - the small frame folks will have bearing sizes and hardware figured out first.
-
Scourge, I wonder if that is your orange frame in Eddys' pic above?
I was wondering the same thing. Looks pretty good.
-
I was wondering the same thing. Looks pretty good.
It might be mine :P.
Edit : just checked the tracking and it's already stateside. it looks like it it will be at my house by Tuesday!!
-
It might be mine :P.
Edit : just checked the tracking and it's already stateside. it looks like it it will be at my house by Tuesday!!
We better see some pics by Tuesday evening ;)
-
I'm still confused if it's going to be 150mm or 160mm front travel. I thought it was decided it was 150mm, but in Eddy's own post it says 160mm front travel. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a fork, but not sure what travel to order.
-
I'm still confused if it's going to be 150mm or 160mm front travel. I thought it was decided it was 150mm, but in Eddy's own post it says 160mm front travel. I'm ready to pull the trigger on a fork, but not sure what travel to order.
I think that depends on wheel size. 150mm for 29" and 160mm for 27.5" to keep bb height similar. At least thats what SC recommends for their hightower
-
I'd imagine anything from a 150 to a 170 fork will be perfectly okay
-
I would defer to the Tideace or Winow specs vs what Haideli has on the site. They both have 150mm rear travel and 160mm front as well as BB92 vs 73mm BSA. Based on all of the pictures and the early specs posted in the group buy here it looks like all the painted frames posted a few pages back are all BB92. Just speculating as usual but I think Icyseanfitz is right. I'm moving my 170mm fork over from my old frame and have a 160mm air spring if it doesn't feel right. 150mm isn't something I'm willing to consider :)
-
Over forking by up +20mm is generally considered safe and normal enough to do, I'm running a 180 on my p9 currently and it's great :D
-
Haideli is our company name and Tideace is our brand name, thanks.
-
Haideli is our company name and Tideace is our brand name, thanks.
I would say most of us know that, I'm just saying that someone should reconcile the Haideli page with the Tideace page as they describe slightly different specs with the same geometry. The Haideli page looks like it was made before the mold was finalized.
http://www.haidelibikes.com/product/showproduct.php?id=129
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003057988287.html
-
The datas on our offical website still have not changed, since we are ready for the information and would updated sooner, thanks for supporting.
-
My frames came! i can confirm that headtube spacer is needed. Also i have sram bb92 and they work just fine. coil shock most definitely will not work.
-
My Frame just came in too. Size Small
-
My frames came! i can confirm that headtube spacer is needed. Also i have sram bb92 and they work just fine. coil shock most definitely will not work.
All of the frames need the head tube spacer or just the small?
-
do we have a measurement on maximum seat tube insertion length yet?
-
coil shock most definitely will not work.
Can you make a pic of that opening in seattube? And measure it's height and width?
Thanks.
---
that orange looks amazing on photo.
-
I was able to stick my entire dropper all the way to the collar which measures 10" (254mm) That is with a little room to spare i am pretty sure. 31.9mm wide opening.
ps that is with a 150mm mm dropper with full insertion.
-
Did you guys had a tracking number ? Not sure I’m what number on the list but I’m getting nervous it shows up without me knowing and getting stolen
-
Why won't a coil work? Opening not big enough for a piggyback?
-
Why won't a coil work? Opening not big enough for a piggyback?
Width of the opening to the rear mount, similar to the real HT.
-
Yes the opening isn't large enough for the coil. When eddy shipped the frames he sent me a shipping number via email.
-
Yes the opening isn't large enough for the coil. When eddy shipped the frames he sent me a shipping number via email.
Thank for confirming that a tracking is provided. Now that we sure know a coil isn’t an option, do you think a manitou mara pro that has a really long piggy back would fit ?
-
The tracking number would be attached by email, many thanks.
-
Here is some more photos including rough measurements of the shock tunnel and fork clearance. The fork is a 150mm 51mm offfset Pike for reference. I'm still need to buy a few more parts before I can really start to build it up. Overall the frame looks really good!
-
In the new group buy thread, the photos Eddy posted have a chain stay protector. Did your frame come with one?
-
As you can see the photos. None. Just headset bb and rear axle
-
It would be included for the protection decal on downtube of the new order, now we got it, thanks.
-
In the new group buy thread, the photos Eddy posted have a chain stay protector. Did your frame come with one?
you can buy it here but I would suggest something bigger anyway :
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002559435375.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.69a8395e6FVnDy&algo_pvid=940be5b6-ec4d-4d53-aada-cd59eda14bb2&algo_exp_id=940be5b6-ec4d-4d53-aada-cd59eda14bb2-3&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000022343946031%22%7D
-
Dear AM831 enthusiasts,
I was following the discussion about the AM831 frame since a while as I was looking into a similar SC type frame with 180/180mm project from a different manufacturer which was unfortunately cancelled.
As Eddy offered a new group buy order I was sending a few questions to him, still waiting for a reply. But maybe someone here has the same intentions and interests and has taken the time to analyze the geometry.
Here are my questions and maybe the group can assist.
1. What is the final design and geometry as details differ on different websites? It appears like a copy'n'paste from SC Hightower, which is 150/140mm (F/R), just the seizing is OFF by one. SC M is here a S....
2. Has anyone a linkage X3 file to analyze the geometry and dynamic values.
3. I did built other bikes incl. Dengfu E10 EMTB which was designed 150/150mml. I would like to increase the rear travel on the AM831 also by using a 216x63mm shock and offset bushings of 2-3mm to adjust for rear wheel/triangle and frame clearance. Then the rear had ~170mm of travel which I am looking for. Will this work? On the E10 it works great. I can tell from riding the last months.
How much clearance does the frame have to allow for longer/shorter (216x63//200x57mm) shock??
To really pimp the geo an angleset and/or mullet setup could make it perfect, if the factory geo is good and allows modification.
4. What parts are included in the complete set?
What seize/type are the headset bearings as I would like to slacken with an angle set?
Is it a UDH?
Thanks already now
Kind regards from Germany
-
It might be mine :P.
Edit : just checked the tracking and it's already stateside. it looks like it it will be at my house by Tuesday!!
How long did the shipping take in total?
-
How much clearance does the frame have to allow for longer/shorter (216x63//200x57mm) shock??
By the way, also was thinking about this. 27.5 rear wheel with 216x63 shock with offset hardware.
-
How long did the shipping take in total?
It was shockingly fast. It shipped out of HK on 8/12 and was at my door in Seattle, Washington by 8/17
-
Can anyone that has gotten a frame verify some things? What did it come with? When emailing to order it was said that it would come with a headset, BB, seat post collar, and rear axle?
What is the required headset spacer that was mentioned on the previous page? Just a regular spacer that goes below and above the stem?
And what size did the seat post diameter end up being? 30.9mm?
-
Can anyone that has gotten a frame verify some things? What did it come with? When emailing to order it was said that it would come with a headset, BB, seat post collar, and rear axle?
What is the required headset spacer that was mentioned on the previous page? Just a regular spacer that goes below and above the stem?
And what size did the seat post diameter end up being? 30.9mm?
I feel we’re repeating the same information over and over but
Frame comes with : headset, sestpost collar ans rear axle/hanger, no bb as far as I know but I guess if you said you have email proof maybe you paid more to get it ?
Bb : bb92
Spacer : crownrace spacer like the reverse components or cane creek crownrace spacee is required to avoid fork contact on downtube. No it’s not like a regular spacer
Seatpost dia : 31.6
-
I've read all the threads and gone back 10 pages in this one just now to see if I missed something and not sure what I asked that is being repeated?
Geekbox32 on previous page said his came with headset, BB, and rear axle and no mention of a seatpost collar. And I'm sure most who have ordered the frame want to know what it actually shows up with so they can order parts and not get set back another week or 2 waiting on a seatpost collar. And from the 1st page of this thread it says it will come with headset, BB, axle, and seat post clamp and I didn't pay anymore for it [USD540/set( item included frame, headset, BB, thru axle, clamp)].
I thought I saw a different seat post diameter but not seeing it now and not going to waste more time looking. Might have been on aliexpress or maybe I'm getting something mixed up. But 31.6 is good and just wanted someone to verify that has the frame in hand because sometimes things like that change from the original specs to the finished product.
When someone says "headset spacer" I don't think most people think "headset crown race spacer" so I was just looking for clarification.
I apologize if I missed a different thread where all this information is laid out (or if I have had a stroke and missed it in this one), but thank you for replying. Did you get a small frame?
-
Has anyone got a tracking number for any size other than small?
I have a feeling it's going to be a while for the other sizes but hopefully I'm wrong...
-
I have a L on order. Eddy confirmed my address two days ago and said the frame was in painting process.
-
There's really nothing to install with integrated headsets. I'm sure the BB won't come installed (or wont even come with a BB - why would it? They have no clue what cranks you're going to run).
-
The bike came with a Rear Axle, headset, seatpost clamp, and Bottom bracket all uninstalled. The derailleur hanger was already installed and i also ordered 2 extra hangers when i ordered my bike.
-
There's really nothing to install with integrated headsets. I'm sure the BB won't come installed (or wont even come with a BB - why would it? They have no clue what cranks you're going to run).
Installed, no. I would say about half of the frames I purchased came with generic Shimano hollowtech II botom brackets. It is a neat freebie, but to your point, I only have one bike with a Shimano drivetrain so it is kind of a waste.
-
Does anyone have information on spacers/shock mounting hardware required?
-
Does anyone have information on spacers/shock mounting hardware required?
8x22mm front
8x30mm rear
According to the Tideace listings.
-
8x22.2 looks close enough with the fox hardware. Always easier to shave off material than add more.
-
Rockshox 22mm is actually 21.85mm but I've not added a Fox shock on a frame that didn't come with one already. That might be a size option for your mounting hardware. I have also filed these down because of what we'll call "manufacturing tolerance," so that is a way to get the job done :)
-
Just ordered mine up, Medium/Orange. Eddy has been fantastic to work with. Very professional and quick to respond to us.
-
8x22mm front
8x30mm rear
According to the Tideace listings.
In reality its 8x30 Front and 8x22ish rear. Reversed from what is published on aliexpress
This means the bearing mount shocks that typically come with Santa Cruz bikes will not work as the rear shock mount is not wide enough.. I learned this the hardway....
-
Ugh, that sucks since I bought the HT specific one as well. Also because those big bearings give it that super plush ride something that the standard bushings will make it hard to replicate.
-
Geekbox32 - thanks for the measurements and info on the shock. A small solace - the bearings at the other end make the shock easier to disassemble/service. Can you fit the calipers in with the inside measurement for the 22.x section? It looks like the install kits for fox change every .2mm
-
At this point I think we need @Eddy-haideli to give us full proper specs. Parts are hard to come by as is, it would be nice not to have to buy twice because the frame specs are wrong. It is shipping now, this shouldn't be a guessing game for us.
-
Damn that's a huge bummer. I did the same thing. Bought a super deluxe that was taken off a new Bronson for this frame. But I also ordered a hightower lower link to see if it fits ( fortunately, its returnable if it doesn't), so hopefully I can still fit this shock if it does
-
I'm going to grab the standard 55mm damper when, if ever, it is back in stock. I'd rather spend another $58 then try and find the standard damper version of the 210x55 Super Deluxe Ultimate. And maybe a needle bearing kit for the rear mount if we find out what size it actually is...
https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/rockshox-deluxe-super-deluxe-standard-eyelet-fast-black-damper-body-ifp-50mm-stroke-55mm-plus-5mm-travel-spacer
-
Geekbox32 - thanks for the measurements and info on the shock. A small solace - the bearings at the other end make the shock easier to disassemble/service. Can you fit the calipers in with the inside measurement for the 22.x section? It looks like the install kits for fox change every .2mm
The rod end of the shock has to be at the rear. The Shock can/piggy back is too fat to fit through the frame. I tried to see if it would fit reverse and it doesnt seem like that would work. If it did, it would be very difficult to add air to the shock.
I'll try to get better measurements later today if not it wont be until next week as i'll be out of town for the weekend...
-
I'm also waiting for a orange medium size, in painting process they say.
Thanks to geekbox for all the information; as parts shopping is very difficult now it's better to have as much information as possible before the frame arrives.
So:
- the included bottom bracket is of decent quality (bearings) or is better to buy another one? The replacement of a press fit BB could be painful.
-the included rear axle is bolted, not quick release?
-same for seat post collar, bolted not quick release?
-Regarding shock mount hardware, we need to look for the bushing but the bolts are included? In the photo the measurement of 22.6 mm doesn't look exact, maybe it is 22.0 mm as haideli claims?
Thanks in advance and good luck to everybody with the project.
-
@snacks - if the lower link fits you can run the 30mm bearing mounts front and rear - pretty cool.
@darius72 - check out the ZTTO thread together Bottom Bracket. The body is similar to a Wheels Mfg one and only costs around $20. You can swap in enduro bearings if the stock ones don't do what you need.
-
Attached is a better measurement of the rear shock mount. I also did doubles check to make sure that the shock mount was indeed 8mm.
Also the bike comes with a standard boost thru axel, some generic bottom bracket, bolt on seat post clamp and a headset with a compression type plug.
Edit: I didn't realize the photo was cropped for the rear shock
-
Does anyone have the thread pitch on the rear axle and the length?
-
You can just make it out on the picture. M12x172
-
Thanks again to geekbox for the detailed report. 8) :)
So what I see:
- the rear axle is included, threaded with a lever, in my opinion could be used.
- seat post clamp: good if you plan to use a dropper (i won't), I will buy a QR one for my classic post.
- bottom bracket: a generic one is included, I wouldn't risk it. I have already had some experience with BBs and I ended up assuming that shimanos are the best (on the bearing side); I was also not satisfied with enduro bearings (lasted 1000 km vs 4000 km average of shimano). The ZTTO thread together could be an option, but I would also replace the bearing. IMHO shimano is the way to go, to avoid trials and errors with press fit on a carbon frame.
-rear shock mounting hardware: an official clarification from Haideli would be nice. 22.6 mm or 22.8 mm isn't a standard size; I don't feel the need for bearings, rotation involved should be minimal and bushings enough, but we need the correct size; probably it's good to leave 0.1 mm, maybe 0.2 mm clearance but not more. Let's continue to share information about this.
-
I see fox makes a 22.8x8 mm, it's roughly equal to .9"; is it the correct one?
https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/collections/rear-shocks/products/fox-5-piece-stainless-steel-mounting-hardware-kit-for-igus-bushing-shocks-8mm-x-900-22-8mm
-
Stock rear axle - 172mm long, M12 (P1.5) 16L - so no one else needs to zoom in. Breaking down the numbers - 172mm from below the head to the end of the threads. 12mm diameter. 1.5 thread pitch. 16mm of the axle has threads.
A few options without a handle. Not perfect matches but the overall length and thread pitch fit. 1mm short shouldn't be an issue. If we get a picture of the stock axle threaded in it will show whether the 1mm difference will fall short. Some stock axles protrude more so the 1mm might end up flush with the body. An alternative to slightly shorter is going slightly longer and using a small plastic or polymer washer under the bolt head to offset things slightly.
ZTTO - 171mm long and 19mm of the axle threaded. $10.89 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001703950314.html black only.
Hardlite - 171mm long, 17mm threaded $35 https://hardlite-components.com/product/e-thru-12-x-142/ Range of colors available.
Carbon Fiber, no brand name, 168mm long $15.99 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001954598179.html
Maxle - 170.5mm long, Planet Cyclery - sold through Walmart $23.95 https://www.walmart.com/ip/Maxle-Stealth-Rear-Thru-Axle-12x142-170-5mm-Length-Giant/775556003
Wolf Tooth - 172mm out of stock until mid September. 178mm in stock. $39.95 https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/hub-related/products/wolf-axle-for-12mm-rear-thru-axle?variant=13658986053667
-
Is this still going on? Interested in it as well.
-
Is this still going on? Interested in it as well.
Not this specific group buy however, they started a second group buy for this frame. Check it out here -
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3356.0.html
-
Stock rear axle - 172mm long, M12 (P1.5) 16L - so no one else needs to zoom in. Breaking down the numbers - 172mm from below the head to the end of the threads. 12mm diameter. 1.5 thread pitch. 16mm of the axle has threads.
A few options without a handle. Not perfect matches but the overall length and thread pitch fit. 1mm short shouldn't be an issue. If we get a picture of the stock axle threaded in it will show whether the 1mm difference will fall short. Some stock axles protrude more so the 1mm might end up flush with the body. An alternative to slightly shorter is going slightly longer and using a small plastic or polymer washer under the bolt head to offset things slightly.
ZTTO - 171mm long and 19mm of the axle threaded. $10.89 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001703950314.html black only.
Hardlite - 171mm long, 17mm threaded $35 https://hardlite-components.com/product/e-thru-12-x-142/ Range of colors available.
Carbon Fiber, no brand name, 168mm long $15.99 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001954598179.html
Just to add to the list:
I use this Maxle Stealth on a few boost frames, seems like it could work here. They are available but not from places I recognize. - https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/maxle-stealth-rear-thru-axle-12x142-170-5mm-length-giant
Also Wolftooth makes one that might work if the threaded length is long enough. - https://www.wolftoothcomponents.com/collections/hub-related/products/wolf-axle-for-12mm-rear-thru-axle?variant=13658985005091
-
Cybrsrce - thanks for the other links. I added them to my post.
-
My frame arrived in Ontario, Canada earlier this week. Shipping was fast. Got metallic black. Looks like silver, red and blue glitter within the clearcoat. Here is a vid: https://imgur.com/gallery/QyCEovN (https://imgur.com/gallery/QyCEovN)
Waiting in a few parts & tools to assemble.
(https://i.imgur.com/73Ly1JG.mp4)
-
Guys,
Sorry if this has been asked multiple times already. Is there a nice full parts list that someone has done for their build for this AM831 bike?
I'm kinda new to this whole "build from scratch" thingy...TIA!
-
@jabbajaw99 - can you post a pic of the axle installed showing how much threads are sticking out?
-
About parts list...everybody has his own ideas, depends which kind of bike you want to build; my plan is to build a light trail bike around 13 kg, budget 3500$. Moreover now there is a global lack of bike components around the world due to covid crisis; last bike I build 5 years ago I was looking for the best deals for parts in the internet, now I'm looking for availability sometimes paying a premium price.
For my build I managed to find a full shimano XT groupset (not easy now) and I bought a manitou mezzer fork (quite light, good reviews and you can change excursion between 140-180 mm, I will start with 160 mm); i also bought a 29" 30mm width wheelset from carbonality.
I will use aliexpress for pedals, sadlle, seatpost, handlebar, stem: anybody can recommend a reliable carbon handlebar?
I still cannot find the brakes :( , and we need to clarify here about the rear shock mounting hardware.
-
Guys,
Sorry if this has been asked multiple times already. Is there a nice full parts list that someone has done for their build for this AM831 bike?
I'm kinda new to this whole "build from scratch" thingy...TIA!
Probably won’t help you much but this is my spreadsheet. Price are CAD
Suspension are on waiting list if I see that a manitou mars pro fit I’ll biy it and keep my manitou mezzer pro up front ( I like matchy suspension)
Wheels, I’ve already had them , would have gone with the diycarbon wheels with fastace hubs
-
wow, thanks for that elgaucher...
things can ramp up quickly when you start to get good stuff on it. damm...
makes me wonder if I should just get a INTENSE 951 from Costco and be done with it. Lifetime warranty too. ugh.
-
Guys,
Sorry if this has been asked multiple times already. Is there a nice full parts list that someone has done for their build for this AM831 bike?
I'm kinda new to this whole "build from scratch" thingy...TIA!
A list of things you'll need to complete this bike, but not specific brands or equipment:
Things included -
Frame
Headset
Seatpost clamp
Rear axle
BB depends on when you buy and might not be useful depending on your crankset
Things you'll need:
150-170mm fork with a tapered steerer tube
210x55 shock
8x22mm rear shock mounting hardware (linkage side, need to confirm exact measurement)
8x30mm rear shock mounting hardware (front mount of frame)
31.6 seatpost - if it is a dropper make sure you get a lever if not included
165mm or 170mm crankset and chainring 30t or 32t - (any longer will be crank arm strike city)
BB92 bottom bracket for whatever type of crankset spindle you get
Rear derailleur
Shifter
Chain
Cassette
180mm rear rotor or larger (larger will require an adapter)
180mm, 200mm, or 203mm front rotor (pay attention if you need an adapter)
Brake levers and calipers front and rear, usually come with hoses
Wheels and tires
Headset spacers
Handlebar
Grips
Pedals
Stem
Saddle
Shifter housing and ends if you go mechanical
Optional bits-
Better IS42/52 headset (I hope it is 42mm, sometimes they have a slightly smaller bearing)
A stealth rear axle from a few pages back
Chain guide, bash guard, or combo
I think that is all you need to get on the trail but this is off the top of my head, hopefully someone else will fill in the blanks.
-
wow, thanks for that elgaucher...
things can ramp up quickly when you start to get good stuff on it. damm...
makes me wonder if I should just get a INTENSE 951 from Costco and be done with it. Lifetime warranty too. ugh.
If you're not the type to swap parts on your factory bike, you'd be much better off buying the Intense.
-
Guys,
Sorry if this has been asked multiple times already. Is there a nice full parts list that someone has done for their build for this AM831 bike?
I'm kinda new to this whole "build from scratch" thingy...TIA!
Sick, I'm in Ontario sas well. Cheers!
-
wow, thanks for that elgaucher...
things can ramp up quickly when you start to get good stuff on it. damm...
makes me wonder if I should just get a INTENSE 951 from Costco and be done with it. Lifetime warranty too. ugh.
To be faire there’s a lot of takeoff from my other bike to get to that price.
Going from nothing, I’d probably shed 1k just by going with deore brakes, cheaper wheels and suspension
-
so my question is the 0.5 degree spacer that i already purchased doesnt sit all the way down on fork... do i need a press or something? I may have to try and put the spacer in the oven and the fork into an ice bath and try and do an interference fit up. My headset tool and lots of grease has left me with a 1mm gap which is making it even more slack...
-
Hi guys kinda new here
For those who have gotten the bike is the rear tyre clearance really only 2.35 ?
-
The max clearnce for the tyre is 2.4"
-
Hi Eddy and all enthusiasts again,
did anyone measure by chance which max shock length could be mounted to increase the travel a bit without hitting the frame? My intention is, as said, to go mullet and use a shock of 213x63, which will give around 170mm rear travel. If required with one or two 2mm offset bushings in case the shock would be too long.
A 27.5x2.4" rear wheel should clear the seat post if it was good for 29x2.4" (acc. Eddy's post) @ 150mm rear travel.
I’d highly appreciate if someone could take the time and measurements.
Thanks again and regards from Germany
-
My intention is, as said, to go mullet and use a shock of 213x63, which will give around 170mm rear travel. If required with one or two 2mm offset bushings in case the shock would be too long.
A 27.5x2.4" rear wheel should clear the seat post if it was good for 29x2.4" (acc. Eddy's post) @ 150mm rear travel.
Have the same idea, since I already have carbon mullet wheelset. From the bottom end of things should be okay if I calculated it right. Around 170 travel and the difference between 27.5 and 29 is 19mm of radius, so should be okay. And then 210-55 = 155, 216-63 = 153 when fully compressed, 2mm is around 5.5mm of travel on average, so should not be an issue.
I'm a bit worried about the other side of things and would be there enough clearance between front and rear triangles near the bottom bracket with 216 shock.
Nevertheless, I'll probably wait a couple of month and wait for reviews since I spent the budget on fixing my eyesight ;D
-
I just ordered mine. In a few weeks we know better. 8)
On my modification of the DengFu E10 eMTB with a 4-bar w/ shock linkage design there were 2 critical points.
- Bridge of seat stay (if there is one limiting) touching the seat post from behind if compression too long. As 210-55 < 213-63 by 5mm it could be an issue. With 2x2mm offset bushings we are coming very close to the original compressed eye-to-eye distance.
Tire clearance to seat tube is no factor in Mullet setup. - Increased length of shock too big to fit into the eye-to-eye distance w/o the yoke touching the seat post from front side.
Corrective action: offset bushing of 1x 2mm and taking 1mm off the yoke (now 1,5mm yoke-to-seat post clearance)
On AM831 frame shock length fully compressed no issue as longer as standard 210x55. Fully extended maybe (if someone with the frame could take the number, please), then 1 or 2 offset bushings could do the job.
The following numbers are from Linkage X3 based on the SC Hightower which has identical spec data w/o an error message that it would exceed the frame limits. But please do not rely on me making fancy adjustments.
With an 3mm longer shock length it's ~0.4-0.5° steeper HA, but no change in SA on New AM831.
584mm folk (~170mm for a Mezzer PRO) ~1.3° slacker HA.
Mullet with 2.5" wheels ~ 0.9-1.0° slacker HA and a BB drop ~6.7mm higher
As a result: 213x63 shock, plus 170mm folk plus Mullet setup will end around 64° HA which is a modern Enduro HA and of cause also slackening the SA by 2° in total which is not so sweet.
Rumours say that SC has only one basic frame design and they produce a Hightower, Megatower, Nomad, Bronson out if it. How about the new Bromadtower then ;D
-
Does anyone have a completed build yet? The pictures of the 1 frame look fine, want to see if there are any unforeseen inconsistencies before I order one!
-
Anybody else has received the frame or at least the shipping notice?Anybody in Europe?
-
Full bicycle picture attached,.
-
so my question is the 0.5 degree spacer that i already purchased doesnt sit all the way down on fork... do i need a press or something? I may have to try and put the spacer in the oven and the fork into an ice bath and try and do an interference fit up. My headset tool and lots of grease has left me with a 1mm gap which is making it even more slack...
Did you get this figured out? Have a picture to clarify?
I think you're saying you have an aftermarket headset crown race which is slotted (not a solid circumference) and you didn't get it to go all the way down on the fork steerer tube?
The slotted races have become popular because this let's you remove it later fairly easily. It's been a while since I worked in a bike shop or installed a fork and some things have changed but I don't think the headset race is one. We used to have a weighted tool with a hole in the center and you just smacked the race a few times and the momentum knocked it down into place. With a slotted race I can't imagine it takes too much force but might be intimidating pounding on your new fork. I would also probably want a piece of plastic, leather, wood, etc between the race and your "slide hammer" so you don't deform the race any.
Hopefully you already got it figured out but thought I would say something in case not...
-
Found a superdeal on a rear shock. Is this a good working choice?
RockShox Deluxe RL DebonAir
https://www.bike-components.de/en/RockShox/Deluxe-RL-DebonAir-Shock-OEM-Packaging-p83247/ (https://www.bike-components.de/en/RockShox/Deluxe-RL-DebonAir-Shock-OEM-Packaging-p83247/)
-
Found a superdeal on a rear shock. Is this a good working choice?
RockShox Deluxe RL DebonAir
https://www.bike-components.de/en/RockShox/Deluxe-RL-DebonAir-Shock-OEM-Packaging-p83247/ (https://www.bike-components.de/en/RockShox/Deluxe-RL-DebonAir-Shock-OEM-Packaging-p83247/)
Wow that is a good deal! And yes the 210x 55mm will work just fine.
-
Small update on shipping dates/times - Eddy told me it is about a week from frame going into painting until it ships.
Also size M didn't have the issue with fork hitting the frame so the larger sizes should be ok.
-
Also size M didn't have the issue with fork hitting the frame so the larger sizes should be ok.
This was my holdup on the first group buy. Hopefully this is true once we see some of the finished builds on M, L, XL frames.
-
My L should ship any day and I will post a pic with a Lyrik fork for downtube clearance comparison.
-
I am not able to find a 30mm bushing for font mount of the rear shock. Can someone provide me a link please?
-
Would a Fox X2, Float X2, or DPX2 fit this frame?
-
Anyone tried to install the santa cruz downtube protector and chainstay protector?
-
Can somebody finally clarify the rear shock hardware size? 8x30 and 8x22.8 or 8x22 ?
If you search for fox hardware you can find it around the web, not extremely cheap, around 25$ each. If we use the suggested RS discounted amno the hardware could cost 60% the price of it.
-
I am not able to find a 30mm bushing for font mount of the rear shock. Can someone provide me a link please?
i order my bushings from here https://bouncecycles.co.uk/
-
Would a Fox X2, Float X2, or DPX2 fit this frame?
only dpx2.
-
Hi everyone, Eddy has contacted me to confirm the shipping address, my frame (size L in raw carbon) is finished and ready to ship. Greetings
-
only dpx2.
About 40 GBP for the set plus they say you need their special tool, ouch!! Did you order 8x22 ?
The 8x30 is available on aliexpress for approx 5 USD, not the 8x22 or 8x22.8, still we don't know for sure which one we need of the two.
I also got notification of frame (size M) shipped.
Urrah!!!
-
Same tool - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001321001981.html
8x22 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002467008737.html (stainless) - poor reviews on seller, similar busing from some other vendors
another 8x22 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32949680664.html (Aluminum)
third 8x22 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000784299529.html at $20 it is steep for an AliX bushing
-
About 40 GBP for the set plus they say you need their special tool, ouch!! Did you order 8x22 ?
The 8x30 is available on aliexpress for approx 5 USD, not the 8x22 or 8x22.8, still we don't know for sure which one we need of the two.
I also got notification of frame (size M) shipped.
Urrah!!!
?.. It's only 26 gbp for the front and rear bushing in total. And as confused has linked, you can get the tool elsewhere. Maybe you should post the link for 8x30 on aliexpress since others were asking for a place to purchase it.
No I did not order a 8x22 as I hopefully won't need it.
-
Can someone who has received the frame post a picture of the derailleur side of the thru axle? Does it stick out a little, sit flush, or short a little bit?
-
flush
-
only dpx2.
Why do you say only the dpx?
-
Why do you say only the dpx?
Similar to coils the width of the opening to the rear mount is not big enough for the other two to fit.
-
[UPDATE: please ignore this post, the issue was caused by a defective derailleur and my silly mistake!]
I got my frame yesterday and built the bike today, but I run into a fairly big issue:
The derailleur hanger does not stick out far enough, so my 1x12 Eagle cannot engage the smallest cog.
Has anybody successfully mounted a SRAM 1x12 on this frame yet?
It is possible that I'm missing something obvious, but from what I can tell, the outer side of the hanger, where the derailleur bolt screws in, seems too close to the center of the bike, by about about 3 to 4 mm.
Even with the high-limit screw completely loose, the derailleur pulley wheel only aligns with the 2nd cog, not the 1st.
A hacky solution would be a thick spacer between the derailleur and the hanger, but that would result in the derailleur bolt being only half engaged, which is very weak.
I hope that I'm missing something obvious ...
-
I got my frame yesterday and built the bike today, but I run into a fairly big issue:
The derailleur hanger does not stick out far enough, so my 1x12 Eagle cannot engage the smallest cog.
Has anybody successfully mounted a SRAM 1x12 on this frame yet?
It is possible that I'm missing something obvious, but from what I can tell, the outer side of the hanger, where the derailleur bolt screws in, seems too close to the center of the bike, by about about 3 to 4 mm.
Even with the high-limit screw completely loose, the derailleur pulley wheel only aligns with the 2nd cog, not the 1st.
A hacky solution would be a thick spacer between the derailleur and the hanger, but that would result in the derailleur bolt being only half engaged, which is very weak.
I hope that I'm missing something obvious ...
the green bike that eddy posted looked like it was running 12 speed NX on there. if you have the cable attached already maybe check cable tension. does it make it to the 1st cog if you remove the cable from the rear derailleur ?
edit: its on page 27. i cant tell if that 1x11 speed or 1x12 speed NX
-
I got my frame yesterday and built the bike today, but I run into a fairly big issue:
The derailleur hanger does not stick out far enough, so my 1x12 Eagle cannot engage the smallest cog.
Has anybody successfully mounted a SRAM 1x12 on this frame yet?
It is possible that I'm missing something obvious, but from what I can tell, the outer side of the hanger, where the derailleur bolt screws in, seems too close to the center of the bike, by about about 3 to 4 mm.
Even with the high-limit screw completely loose, the derailleur pulley wheel only aligns with the 2nd cog, not the 1st.
A hacky solution would be a thick spacer between the derailleur and the hanger, but that would result in the derailleur bolt being only half engaged, which is very weak.
I hope that I'm missing something obvious ...
Start over and work backwards, take your shift cable and take it right off the derailleur - make sure your high speed adjustment and low speed are where they should be in relation to the high and low speed cogs. Something does not sound right. It would be an absolute shock if this is frame related which I don't believe it is.
-
Start over and work backwards, take your shift cable and take it right off the derailleur - make sure your high speed adjustment and low speed are where they should be in relation to the high and low speed cogs. Something does not sound right. It would be an absolute shock if this is frame related which I don't believe it is.
I checked all of these. Later today I'll take a picture with the cable off (still hoping I did something wrong).
BTW, the issue (if any) is not with the frame, but with having the wrong hanger.
For example this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291799753019 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291799753019), which looks similar to the one that came with my bike, seems to have a bulge that could be sufficient to offset the derailleur.
-
I checked all of these. Later today I'll take a picture with the cable off (still hoping I did something wrong).
BTW, the issue (if any) is not with the frame, but with having the wrong hanger.
For example this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291799753019 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291799753019), which looks similar to the one that came with my bike, seems to have a bulge that could be sufficient to offset the derailleur.
Keep in mind that the limit screws on Eagle are opposite of the location they're setting, so smallest gear is going to be the screw closest to the bike, not farthest out. Also check if the hanger is bent out of alignment.
-
I checked all of these. Later today I'll take a picture with the cable off (still hoping I did something wrong).
BTW, the issue (if any) is not with the frame, but with having the wrong hanger.
For example this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291799753019 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/291799753019), which looks similar to the one that came with my bike, seems to have a bulge that could be sufficient to offset the derailleur.
Picture would probably help us a little.
Is it an XD or HG hub body?
Can you manually move itto the highest gear with the cable disconnected?
This may sound silly but did you use the included XDR spacer when you installed the cassette?
Is the hanger bent?
-
OK, everything is fine: sorry for the noise! :(
My brand new GX derailleur had a metal chip stuck in one of the hinges which prevented it from returning to the end position!
This would teach me to do bike work late at night and then post my mistakes to a forum!
In the process, I also checked the design of the hanger against SRAM specs (https://www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/frame-fit-specifications/mtb/2021-mtb-frame-fit-specifications.pdf (https://www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/frame-fit-specifications/mtb/2021-mtb-frame-fit-specifications.pdf)), and it is totally in spec!
sorry everybody!
-
Nice to hear this! now post a photo of the newbuilt bike, and a part lists if you feel like. A lot of people here are finalizing their projects
-
Can people also maybe verify some of the measurements like the front and rear shock brackets? As well as a seatpost insertion depth and frame size? I've seen one person say 10" (254mm) and looking back it looks like he ordered a small and medium frame so not sure which was measured? But based on published seat tube length, even if it was a medium frame, a large would have 37mm more for a total of 291mm, which for me gets me close to a 210 OneUp dropper. But would like to get some verification before ordering if possible. And I figure the more measurements we get (and the frame size) the better for everyone ordering parts.
Someone said that the 8x30 mounting hardware is on aliexpress but I'm not finding much. I saw one listing but they were out of that size and haven't had much luck elsewhere either except for some that are way overpriced. A link would be great if anyone has found it in stock!
I've also seen others ask about a build list so I'll work on mine to post and will try to include links to what I actually purchased if I didn't have it already.
-
Yeah this is my first bike build and I have no idea on shock mounting hardware.
-
In stock (limited quantity) of the m8 x 30 shock hardware:
Rockshox
https://thelostco.com/products/rockshox-rear-mounting-hardware?variant=32611062284369
Fox
https://thelostco.com/products/the-real-2021-fox-mounting-hardware?variant=32303770370129
-
Did any cable hole plugs come with the frame? I will only have the rear brake hose running through the frame so I'll be looking to close everything else up. Jagwire makes a couple different sizes if none are included.
-
Attaching a picture of my finished build. This frame size is "S".
Only the bottom cage is missing and I haven ridden it yet, apart up and down the street to tune suspension and saddle height.
Some interesting parts of my build:
- assembling the lower pin of the rear shock was challenging, as I could not find any position of the rear triangle that gave me enough clearance to remove the bolt. I ended up unscrewing the top hinge form the frame (removing the 2 bolts just under the saddle). Not sure if that was the best choice because repositioning the hinge wasn't easy, but it worked
- my mounting hardware for the shock was M8x30 and M8x22.199. The x30 (top) fit perfectly, the x22.199 was loose: i measured 22.86mm for the opening. Rather than ordering a new one, I 3d printed 2 spacers, which seem to work well
- My shock is a Fox dpx2. It fits pretty well, but the access to the air valve is tight, I can barely connect my pump to the valve.
- I used a Fox36 fork, that barely clears the frame, after using the 0.5 degree angle spacer from Reverse, which is about 10mm tall. BTW, jham asked about installing the angle spacer: it is an "interference fit", just like a standard crown race. I used a piece of PVC pipe with id of about 1.5" to push it down, with the help of a rubber mallet
As for my component list, most of them are reused form other builds or both 2nd hand:
- fork: Fox36 w/ GRIP2 damper. The damper adjustments barely clear the frame even after adding the angle spacer
- rear shock: Fox dpx2, see my comments above for the mounting hardware
- drivetrain: SRAM Eagle GX, with SRAM DUB 89/92 pressfit bottom bracket
- wheelset: Lightcarbon 350MB-AD938-Race, shared with my other frame
- breakset: Shimano M8200, which I got new at a good price form a seller on Pinkbike. The rotors are generic from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082NVF3TD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082NVF3TD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1))
- dropper post: and old Tranzx 31.6x140. I pushed it all the way down the downtube.. and it still might be too high, I need to double check it, but I have not measured the insertion depth
- saddle: a SDG Radar.. I have no idea of how good or comfortable it is, I got it at a discount because my other SGB Bel Air failed, but I have to say that I like a lot my WTB Volt on the other bike
- stem and Carbon Handlebar: inexpensive from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0916YJ81R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0916YJ81R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JPF4T71/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JPF4T71/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1))
- headset and Sitclamp: I used the one that came with the frame. The frame also came with 4 cable hole plugs, for the larger holes by the bottom of the downtube. They are rubber, not easy to install. Not sure if they will hold
- missing: chainstay (and maybe downtube) protection. I have something that might work, but I haven't tried to install it yet.
I hope this is helpful to others..
-
Finally a full build pic. Nice build. Your dropper cable housing will rub down on your shock. What was your solution for housing knocking inside the frame and rear swing arm?
Any idea for an elegant rear mud guard? I have not figured one out.
Hopefully you guys have cycle the rear suspension movement for any binding. The top link at the top tube might need a 10*16*1 spacer bushing. Very well depend on the frame tolerance.
No pic from me as mine is generic black build. Pretty much the same looks just all black.
-
Finally a full build pic. Nice build. Your dropper cable housing will rub down on your shock. What was your solution for housing knocking inside the frame and rear swing arm?
Any idea for an elegant rear mud guard? I have not figured one out.
Hopefully you guys have cycle the rear suspension movement for any binding. The top link at the top tube might need a 10*16*1 spacer bushing. Very well depend on the frame tolerance.
No pic from me as mine is generic black build. Pretty much the same looks just all black.
The top link at the top tube already has bushings and it is a tight fit, that's the one i disassembled to mount the rear shock.
Re: dropper cable rubbing in the shock, yes it will be an issue. I have no idea of what to do, do you?
SC HT seems to route the dropper cable somewhere else.. not sure where.
Re: cable knocking inside the frame, in past builds I've stuck a piece of copper-tube insulation foam (the one that looks a bit like a pool noodle) in the downtube, from the headtube. I'll do it when the knocking starts bothering me... sometimes you get lucky and it doesn't happen.
Re: mud guard, not a problem in CA, at least not for now.. unfortunately.
-
i found this pic of the aluminum hightower that shows how they route the dropper cable. i was hoping it would be similar for this frame. oh and these 3m cable clips might work if theres nothing in there to hold the cable
-
riding_truckee,
Would you share with us where you brought the mounting hardware for the rear shock?
Really nice build. Thank you for sharing with us.
Bsam.
-
I think this is most everything. Got an email last week that frame was going to painting so hopefully shipped by end of week and once it's here I'll fill in blanks as well as any issues, tips, etc that I encounter when building...
Frame: Haideli AM831
Fork: Suntour Auron35 Boost (EQ RC2 PCS 15QLC 29) - smaller brother to Durolux, similar to a Lyrik and Pike
Shock: Suntour TriAir (3CR 210x55)
Mounting hardware:
Front: 8x30
Rear: 8x22.2 RWC bearing with 0.5mm shims
Wheelset:
Hubs: DT Swiss 350 (Boost, center lock, straight pull, 28 hole)
Rims: Light Bicycle 28mm ID Asym (AM928)
Spokes: Sapim D-light
Nipples: Sapim, aluminum (supposed to be brass but was sent these so will try them out)
Valve stems:
Rim tape:
Tires: haven't decided but have a few to try
Stem: 31.8 x40 Wake from ali that looks similar to Uno stems
Headset: included
Headset spacers: CF 3k matte
Handlebar: 31.8, 30mm rise, 800mm width (have aluminum and carbon - trying to figure out how different up and back angles feel)
Grips: Oury clamp on
Seatpost: OneUp 31.6x210 (or a 180mm if other doesn't fit)
Seat: China Shimano Pro Clone (most comfortable saddle I've tried recently and only $10)
Bottom bracket: ZTTO threaded PF92 24mm spindle
Cranks: Shimano STX M7120 170mm boost
Chainring: Shimano STX M7100 32T
Pedals: Shimano XT clipless
Chain: Shimano M7100 12s
Cassette: Shimano M7100 10-51 12 speed
Derailleur - Rear: Shimano M7100
Shifter: Shimano XT M8100 12s
Brakes: Shimano M6120 Deore 4 piston
Brake rotor:
Front: Tektro centerlock 203mm
Rear: Tektro CL 180 or 203
Extras:
ZTTO ISCG-05 chain guide - might switch out for something with a polymer plate to protect chainring depending how things go
Helicopter tape
Downtube protector - will start with a layer of thick silicone tape covered with slightly wider car wrap tape that has heat activated adhesive and pulls tight against
contours. Depending how that holds up might try kydex and also try to make a fender to cover linkage and shock
Will try to edit and put a link to where purchased or at least the price, below:
Frame:
Fork:
Shock:
Mounting hardware:
Front:
Rear:
Wheelset:
Hubs:
Rims:
Spokes:
Nipples:
Valve stems:
Rim tape:
Tires:
Stem:
Headset:
Headset spacers:
Handlebar:
Grips:
Seatpost:
Seat:
Bottom bracket:
Cranks:
Chainring:
Pedals:
Chain:
Cassette:
Derailleur - Rear:
Shifter:
Brakes:
Brake rotor:
Front:
Rear:
Extras:
-
A few more items for people looking. 30mm roller bearing for shock, shims for rear mount, and silicone things to wrap cable to prevent rub against shock and stop rattling in frames.
30mm roller bearing https://www.fanatikbike.com/products/fox-racing-shox-roller-bearing-rear-shock-mounting-kit
M8x14 shims - https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002301164770.html
Cable anti-rattle and anti-rub https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001632446940.html
-
riding_truckee,
Would you share with us where you brought the mounting hardware for the rear shock?
Really nice build. Thank you for sharing with us.
Bsam.
CambriaBike.com because thy had both in stock, last week.
-
Gentlemen,
Is this Fox Eyelet Roller Bearing Kit works, in place of the M8x30mm Hardware we talked about? Thank you for your advices as always.
https://cambriabike.com/products/fox-suspension-eyelet-roller-bearing-kit (https://cambriabike.com/products/fox-suspension-eyelet-roller-bearing-kit)
-
I pulled the trigger on a fork because it was a good deal. Now I just realized it's 51mm offset. What are people's thoughts on this? Was this frame designed for a shorter offset fork? Should I send it back and find a 44mm offset? Or will there really be no difference?
-
I pulled the trigger on a fork because it was a good deal. Now I just realized it's 51mm offset. What are people's thoughts on this? Was this frame designed for a shorter offset fork? Should I send it back and find a 44mm offset? Or will there really be no difference?
I kind of like it over the feel of a 44 or 42 after swapping forks between bikes. I don't like the front of the bike to be twitchy and that few mm lengthens the wheelbase and trail a little and makes it a little less responsive. If you ride a lot of fast flow switchbacks maybe consider swapping for a 44mm.
*I'll be moving my 51mm Lyrik over so I hope it doesn't suck :)
-
Gentlemen,
Is this Fox Eyelet Roller Bearing Kit works, in place of the M8x30mm Hardware we talked about? Thank you for your advices as always.
https://cambriabike.com/products/fox-suspension-eyelet-roller-bearing-kit (https://cambriabike.com/products/fox-suspension-eyelet-roller-bearing-kit)
The 30mm goes on the front side which doesn't move much so isn't of much benefit. If you get a bearing you want it at the back side where the linkage rotates quite a bit in relation to the shock and having it easier to rotate is more beneficial. So if going to get a bearing go with one for the 22.2 mm width.
-
I kind of like it over the feel of a 44 or 42 after swapping forks between bikes. I don't like the front of the bike to be twitchy and that few mm lengthens the wheelbase and trail a little and makes it a little less responsive. If you ride a lot of fast flow switchbacks maybe consider swapping for a 44mm.
*I'll be moving my 51mm Lyrik over so I hope it doesn't suck :)
I thought the same as you but we are wrong, increasing offset actually reduces trail.
https://www.theproscloset.com/blogs/news/why-mountain-bike-use-reduced-offset-forks
-
My orange M frame should be on his way.
Meanwhile I bought most of the parts, I share my list with comments to give&receive suggestions:
Wheels: carbonality 30 mm asymmetric with DT swiss 350 and sapim cx ray: they look very well done and extremely light; I have been using a wheelset from same company on another bike for 8 years, no complains.
Groupset: all shimano XT 12 speed, it was not easy to find it; somehow I prefer shimano over Sram, but it is personal.
Brakes:still missing, I want formula cura 2 pots, but it looks like they are sold out around the world; plan B is shimano XT.
Fork: manitou mezzer pro, excursion internally changeable between 140-180 mm; I plan to start with 160 mm.
rear shock: dt swiss 535, I have just found out it has its special mounting system (it has a unibal in the eyelet), needs special hardware, maybe some filing or shims for perfect fit.
Seat post: elita one aliexpress, I don`t like/use droppers: for me they are just more weight and more problems, I change my seat height stopping and using a QR
Saddle: carbon aliexpress
Handlebar: here I ask for suggestion, I am looking for a reliable carbon one without breaking the bank: I selected og-evkin, but they don`t say if it is ok for enduro use; another option is ican rise (it says enduro capable) but possibly I would avoid the 35 mm diameter bars
Pedals: titanium flat aliexpress
Tyres: minion 2.5 wt front and rekon 2.4 wt rear
Concerning fork rake, there is a difference in bike behaviour as you can read on various forums, but it is minimal, at least for the amateur, you will be fine anyway.
-
I thought the same as you but we are wrong, increasing offset actually reduces trail.
https://www.theproscloset.com/blogs/news/why-mountain-bike-use-reduced-offset-forks
I accidentally a word there :) - lengthens the wheelbase and reduces trail a little and makes it a little less responsive.
But yes, I thought that for a while until I saw how it was measured. +/-10mm of trail when you're already over 100mm doesn't feel less stable to me but that is with my anecdotal rider feeling hat on and not as an engineer.
If you already have a 51mm fork I don't see a reason not to give it a go. That said, if I don't like how it feels I will replace it with a newer Lyrik or a Zeb in 44mm and will relay my experience.
-
Seat post: elita one aliexpress, I don`t like/use droppers: for me they are just more weight and more problems, I change my seat height stopping and using a QR
Old school :) They are pretty reliable now even my oldest working Easton Haven doesn't give me problem unless it is used constantly for 2+ hours then it seems to overheat and come up really slow. Oneup and even Brand X are really good value for money if you consider them in the future.
Handlebar: here I ask for suggestion, I am looking for a reliable carbon one without breaking the bank: I selected og-evkin, but they don`t say if it is ok for enduro use; another option is ican rise (it says enduro capable) but possibly I would avoid the 35 mm diameter bars
Oneup Components here again but it is 35mm. I mostly trust the bargain brand carbon for frames but I'm not sold on it for bars. I just recently moved from alloy bars because of getting absolutely jarred over multiple day rides and I only trust the quality control of bigger brands for something this important. It obviously isn't Ali cheap but it also isn't Syncros expensive.
-
Oneup Components here again but it is 35mm. I mostly trust the bargain brand carbon for frames but I'm not sold on it for bars. I just recently moved from alloy bars because of getting absolutely jarred over multiple day rides and I only trust the quality control of bigger brands for something this important. It obviously isn't Ali cheap but it also isn't Syncros expensive.
Thank you for the idea! Oneup claims that their 35 mm bar has an oval shape making it confortable like an old 31 mm. Probably it worths the investment; a failure in the handlebar could be an hospital trip.
There are three "levels" of handlebars:
- generic chinese aliexpress, the cheapest but no warranty at all
- chinese reputable brands (og-evkin,ican, lightcarbon); middle price and mostly good reviews
- brand names: most expensive, still made in china but probably with a different quality control that makes a world of difference.
Said that if you search over the web you will find photos of failures of any kind of handlebars (even alluminium ones). For sure they suffer fatigue, after many small hits they get weaker; carbon ones maybe even aging from UV etc.
Probably better to go with 30-35 mm rise and limit the stem spacers, this is my idea what do you think?
-
Thank you for the idea! Oneup claims that their 35 mm bar has an oval shape making it confortable like an old 31 mm. Probably it worths the investment; a failure in the handlebar could be an hospital trip.
There are three "levels" of handlebars:
- generic chinese aliexpress, the cheapest but no warranty at all
- chinese reputable brands (og-evkin,ican, lightcarbon); middle price and mostly good reviews
- brand names: most expensive, still made in china but probably with a different quality control that makes a world of difference.
Said that if you search over the web you will find photos of failures of any kind of handlebars (even alluminium ones). For sure they suffer fatigue, after many small hits they get weaker; carbon ones maybe even aging from UV etc.
Probably better to go with 30-35 mm rise and limit the stem spacers, this is my idea what do you think?
That will be exactly how I do it for nothing more than because my steerer is already cut for the same length head tube :) I agree though, but the disclaimer is to leave your steerer a little longer so you can play with it if you don't like it.
I replaced a 20mm rise AL bar with the Oneup 35mm rise and it feels pretty good. I prefer a more aggressive position when the saddle is up but it hasn't seemed to cause a negative effect. This frame will have better geometry so I expect it to get better, some of the Hightowers come with 30 or 35mm rise bars so how bad can it be?
Agree on all counts about bar reliability. I have had aluminum handlebars fail due to my own negligence, get torque wrenches people, and I have been very particular about it ever since. If I see EWS riders using it I feel comfortable with it. On the other side, I will buy the well known Chinese brand components for road and gravel since I don't full gorilla those bikes as often.
-
About 40 GBP for the set plus they say you need their special tool, ouch!! Did you order 8x22 ?
The 8x30 is available on aliexpress for approx 5 USD, not the 8x22 or 8x22.8, still we don't know for sure which one we need of the two.
I also got notification of frame (size M) shipped.
Urrah!!!
Can you post a link to this $5 8x30 hardware on aliexpress?
-
I bought an Iveke cheap Chinese carbon bar. I will let you guys know if it snaps on me.
-
you guys are hilarious. I have run a carbon bar for 4 years from ali and i weigh 255 lbs and havent had a single problem. Their products are way better than the majority of you let on.. your brand name crap probably comes from the same factory.
-
Can you post a link to this $5 8x30 hardware on aliexpress?
Im going to use a 24x8 hardware which can be found on ali and 3x8 aluminium spacers also from ali to make up the difference.
-
Can you post a link to this $5 8x30 hardware on aliexpress?
Damn it I can`t find it any more, even if I am sure I saw it; maybe it was from this seller, now the 30 mm option is grayed out.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000034051514.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.98d527e9gu5SDf&algo_pvid=58103966-f0a3-4eb6-84df-37f444b366fd&algo_exp_id=58103966-f0a3-4eb6-84df-37f444b366fd-0
-
you guys are hilarious. I have run a carbon bar for 4 years from ali and i weigh 255 lbs and havent had a single problem. Their products are way better than the majority of you let on.. your brand name crap probably comes from the same factory.
The problem of the no brand is the quality control; maybe 9 out of 10 are good, but if you get the unlucky one :o .
No brand has no reputation to defend.
Handlebar failure could be a serious accident, there is an example on this forum even with an attached video:
http://chinertown.com/index.php?topic=763.0
-
you guys are hilarious. I have run a carbon bar for 4 years from ali and i weigh 255 lbs and havent had a single problem. Their products are way better than the majority of you let on.. your brand name crap probably comes from the same factory.
Even from a sample of 1 that is good data, is it a truly off brand or one of the larger manufacturers?
My direct Chinese frame failure rate is pretty high at 20% but they haven't been catastrophic failures. For 1/4 to 1/3 the price of the name brands I keep coming back for frames but go with big brand components with my "savings."
I like that the big brands publish their failure rates and the Oneup carbon bar is only $129. Previous to that I was running your average $40-50 alloy bar but I wanted to try something new. That is peace of mind for me but I recognize that extra $100 over an Ali bar could go to other components for some.
-
Gentlemen,
Can anyone please confirm that the AM831 has the boost or Non-boost Crank configuration? I do appreciated for your response in advance.
Bsam.
-
Attaching a picture of my finished build. This frame size is "S".
Only the bottom cage is missing and I haven ridden it yet, apart up and down the street to tune suspension and saddle height.
Some interesting parts of my build:
- assembling the lower pin of the rear shock was challenging, as I could not find any position of the rear triangle that gave me enough clearance to remove the bolt. I ended up unscrewing the top hinge form the frame (removing the 2 bolts just under the saddle). Not sure if that was the best choice because repositioning the hinge wasn't easy, but it worked
- my mounting hardware for the shock was M8x30 and M8x22.199. The x30 (top) fit perfectly, the x22.199 was loose: i measured 22.86mm for the opening. Rather than ordering a new one, I 3d printed 2 spacers, which seem to work well
- My shock is a Fox dpx2. It fits pretty well, but the access to the air valve is tight, I can barely connect my pump to the valve.
- I used a Fox36 fork, that barely clears the frame, after using the 0.5 degree angle spacer from Reverse, which is about 10mm tall. BTW, jham asked about installing the angle spacer: it is an "interference fit", just like a standard crown race. I used a piece of PVC pipe with id of about 1.5" to push it down, with the help of a rubber mallet
As for my component list, most of them are reused form other builds or both 2nd hand:
- fork: Fox36 w/ GRIP2 damper. The damper adjustments barely clear the frame even after adding the angle spacer
- rear shock: Fox dpx2, see my comments above for the mounting hardware
- drivetrain: SRAM Eagle GX, with SRAM DUB 89/92 pressfit bottom bracket
- wheelset: Lightcarbon 350MB-AD938-Race, shared with my other frame
- breakset: Shimano M8200, which I got new at a good price form a seller on Pinkbike. The rotors are generic from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082NVF3TD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B082NVF3TD/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1))
- dropper post: and old Tranzx 31.6x140. I pushed it all the way down the downtube.. and it still might be too high, I need to double check it, but I have not measured the insertion depth
- saddle: a SDG Radar.. I have no idea of how good or comfortable it is, I got it at a discount because my other SGB Bel Air failed, but I have to say that I like a lot my WTB Volt on the other bike
- stem and Carbon Handlebar: inexpensive from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0916YJ81R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0916YJ81R/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JPF4T71/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07JPF4T71/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_image?ie=UTF8&psc=1))
- headset and Sitclamp: I used the one that came with the frame. The frame also came with 4 cable hole plugs, for the larger holes by the bottom of the downtube. They are rubber, not easy to install. Not sure if they will hold
- missing: chainstay (and maybe downtube) protection. I have something that might work, but I haven't tried to install it yet.
I hope this is helpful to others..
Did you used this "RAM DUB PressFit Bottom Bracket - BB89.5/BB92, 89/92mm" in your build? Trying to figure out which BB I should buy for my SRAM GX Crank. I'm appreciated for your response in advance.
-
Some interesting parts of my build:
- assembling the lower pin of the rear shock was challenging, as I could not find any position of the rear triangle that gave me enough clearance to remove the bolt. I ended up unscrewing the top hinge form the frame (removing the 2 bolts just under the saddle). Not sure if that was the best choice because repositioning the hinge wasn't easy, but it worked
It appears that Haideli recommends the lower link bolt removal. You got it done, so kudos to you! :)
(http://www.haidelibikes.com/upload/202108/1629950422789246.jpg)[/list]
-
Did you used this "RAM DUB PressFit Bottom Bracket - BB89.5/BB92, 89/92mm" in your build? Trying to figure out which BB I should buy for my SRAM GX Crank. I'm appreciated for your response in advance.
For a DUB boost crankset then that is the one. Completely different BB if it is a GXP crankset.
If you can't find a BB92 DUB BB available there are a few more expensive options from Wheels Mfg and RWC (Enduro Fork Seals) and then some insanely priced options from Binfinite and Kogel.
-
So 8x30 for the top of the shock, have we determined what size the bottom mounting hardware should be?
-
So 8x30 for the top of the shock, have we determined what size the bottom mounting hardware should be?
Short answer - 22.2 and have some shims. We don't have multiple samples of the linkage reporting dimensions...yet. Also, one person will test the Santa Cruz linkage - if it works the 30mm front and rear roller bearings become options.
If going the 22.2 option BK5864 is a part that has a needle bearing. Bikeinn had some in stock at the time of this posting.
-
Short answer - 22.2 and have some shims. We don't have multiple samples of the linkage reporting dimensions...yet. Also, one person will test the Santa Cruz linkage - if it works the 30mm front and rear roller bearings become options.
If going the 22.2 option BK5864 is a part that has a needle bearing. Bikeinn had some in stock at the time of this posting.
My measurement was 22.86, which you can find, for example here https://www.amazon.com/Shock-Mount-Hardware-Washer-M8x22-86mm/dp/B08HR4YLMY (https://www.amazon.com/Shock-Mount-Hardware-Washer-M8x22-86mm/dp/B08HR4YLMY)
I used 22.2 + shims, because that's what I had.
-
Anybody else posting their build pictures?
Somebody else must have built by now!
BTW, I did a couple of rides on this bike (40km, 1200m of elevation in total) and I'm pretty impressed:
- relatively efficient on the way up
- handles well on steep downhill
- it is easier to handle in tight spots than my LCFS947 (Lightcarbon), even though the geometries are very close.
-
Somebody asked about sitpost insertion length: my "S" frame only had about 13.5cm, measured from the edge of the sitpost's tube, not from the actuator.
Looking down the sit tube, it appeared as if the insertion should have been much longer: the tube was open all the way down to the shock mount.
Upon further inspection, I noticed what was stopping the sitpost: the top part of the sit tube has an inner carbon tube, which is the one where the sitpost slides, the same that is squeezed by the clamp.
This inner tube is somehow epoxied to the outer tube, which is part of the frame. The epoxy a the bottom of the inner tube bulged out in a few spots, reducing the diameter.
I decided that this was an unintended side effect of the assembly process and that it was not structural, hence I proceeded to painstakingly file down the bulging epoxy. This resulted into close-to-infinite insertion length :)
You should probably not try to do the same, unless you are sure that my "it is non structural" assumption is correct..
..but if you do, the best way I found to get it done is to tape some sandpaper to the bottom of a tube with a smaller outer diameter than the sitpost, say 25mm.
It is also useful to mark the "sanding tube" at the proper insertion length, to prevent sanding away anything else by the protruding epoxy: enlarging the sit tube diameter would probably be quite bad.
-
After being out of town, waiting for parts, and finding the time. I was finally able to finish the build up today. Hopefully I can get it in some dirt soon.
-
Hi guys has anyone used a 210x55 shock?
Is there any saddle buzz at full compression?
-
After being out of town, waiting for parts, and finding the time. I was finally able to finish the build up today. Hopefully I can get it in some dirt soon.
Looking good!
Only missing the matching valve cap in the rear :)
-
What chain line is everyone using or planning? Has anyone gone with 52mm yet? What size chainring did you run and how much clearance between the chainstay?
I jumped on a boost crank that was in stock thinking it was the right option for the boost wheel spacing but it's a 55mm chainline instead of 52mm so I'm not sure why it's labeled as a boost crank? Wondering if I should get a different crank or if spacing will be tight and the wider chain line is better...
-
Hi guys has anyone used a 210x55 shock?
Is there any saddle buzz at full compression?
I imagine most everyone is using a 210x55 shock, as that is the size specified. Did you mean a different size or is there a reason you think there might be clearance issues?
-
What chain line is everyone using or planning? Has anyone gone with 52mm yet? What size chainring did you run and how much clearance between the chainstay?
I jumped on a boost crank that was in stock thinking it was the right option for the boost wheel spacing but it's a 55mm chainline instead of 52mm so I'm not sure why it's labeled as a boost crank? Wondering if I should get a different crank or if spacing will be tight and the wider chain line is better...
Sounds like a super boost chainline. I'm not sure about other brands but SRAM uses the same spindle for non-boost, boost, and super boost and the direct mount chainrings have the offset. I jumped on a super boost GX Eagle crankset for the same reason but I was going to swap out the 32t ring for a 30t anyway.
-
I imagine most everyone is using a 210x55 shock, as that is the size specified. Did you mean a different size or is there a reason you think there might be clearance issues?
the original hightower v2 uses a 210x52.5 shock. And according to cascade components there maybe some tyre buzz on the saddle at full compression with the saddle slammed with a 210x55 shock and their link so im just wondering would there be any issues here.
the quote below is from cascade componets website
A 55mm stroke shock (160mm of travel) can be run if desired, but for people with smaller frames or completely slammed seats, tire buzz can be an issue
-
the original hightower v2 uses a 210x52.5 shock. And according to cascade components there maybe some tyre buzz on the saddle at full compression with the saddle slammed with a 210x55 shock and their link so im just wondering would there be any issues here.
The Hightower also has a 145mm travel, whereas the FS281 has a 150mm travel.
-
This frame is modeled after the hightower but it's not an exact copy so it's close but not exactly the same. It also doesn't have the flip chips and the cascade link changes kinematics and I think I remember is 10mm longer in at least 1 dimension so I'm sure it does change things from how the original behaves. While it's possible the seat could buzz the tire, I'm betting the specified 210x55 will work just fine.
I have most parts except for a few still trickling in and was told about a week ago it was heading to paint so hopefully will ship soon. I can try to document the build with pictures if anyone is interested? We are the first ones building it up and can hopefully help each other out if anyone has problems.
-
Sounds like a super boost chainline. I'm not sure about other brands but SRAM uses the same spindle for non-boost, boost, and super boost and the direct mount chainrings have the offset. I jumped on a super boost GX Eagle crankset for the same reason but I was going to swap out the 32t ring for a 30t anyway.
The super boost crank is 56.5mm, I think. But definitely bigger than 55. These are Shimano 1x12 cranks and from what I can tell the rings are the same and the cranks are different. The MX100 (where M7100 is SLX, M8100 is XT, M9100 XTR) crank is the regular crank which has 52mm chainline and for 142 o.l.d and 148 o.l.d. The MX120 crank is the "boost" version but with 55mm chainline which doesn't make much sense as the ideal chainline for boost spacing is supposed to be 51-53mm, which the first is but not called a boost crank. The MX130 is the super boost crank with 56.5mm chainline. Anyways, if others can share what they went with and how it's working as well as ring size and clearance that would be great. It's been a while since I looked at all this and when I saw a boost crank I assumed that was the correct one and still really curious why?!
Maybe a spacer could be used somewhere to cheat things over? But will have to do some reading and mess with it once in hand. I worked in a bunch of bike shops and wrenched at races when I wasnt racing but that stopped about 10 years ago and there is lots of new stuff I haven't seen yet or at least not had my hands on. But if someone has experience or thoughts that would be great. Or at least describe what you did and how it's working so far.
Anyways, it's way too late and I'm a little delirious and probably over thinking the chainline, and definitely rambling too much...
-
The super boost crank is 56.5mm, I think. But definitely bigger than 55. These are Shimano 1x12 cranks and from what I can tell the rings are the same and the cranks are different. The MX100 (where M7100 is SLX, M8100 is XT, M9100 XTR) crank is the regular crank which has 52mm chainline and for 142 o.l.d and 148 o.l.d. The MX120 crank is the "boost" version but with 55mm chainline which doesn't make much sense as the ideal chainline for boost spacing is supposed to be 51-53mm, which the first is but not called a boost crank. The MX130 is the super boost crank with 56.5mm chainline. Anyways, if others can share what they went with and how it's working as well as ring size and clearance that would be great. It's been a while since I looked at all this and when I saw a boost crank I assumed that was the correct one and still really curious why?!
Interesting, I have a full SLX setup and measured it out to 55mm as well, then I saw that it what it is supposed to be. https://bike.shimano.com/en-EU/product/component/slx-m7100/FC-M7120-1.html. Shimano thinks 55mm is the best line for their boost gear so I wouldn't sweat the "ideal" ranges. My SRAM stuff is all 52ish but that is their boost spec ~51-53mm.
Out in the garage and took a few pictures. Today is bath day... That fiber fix tape on the SRAM setup is the reason I'm here :) Also note, there are no AM831 frames in these pictures, SLX is on a FE711 and GX is on FM356.
-
The optimal chainline depends on which cogs you use most. If you do a lot of steep climbing and use the bigger cogs most, a shorter chainline may be better.
-
Can anyone confirm the rear shock mounting hardware? 8x30 and 8x22.?
-
I have most parts except for a few still trickling in and was told about a week ago it was heading to paint so hopefully will ship soon. I can try to document the build with pictures if anyone is interested? We are the first ones building it up and can hopefully help each other out if anyone has problems.
Would be good if you and anyone else who bought the frame document the build process to see if there's any flaws etc. Also would this frame fit a coil?
-
Also would this frame fit a coil?
I believe this was answered. The Santa Cruz does not fit a coil shock, so this frame most likely does not either. Check https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/bikes/hightower#technical-support
-
Would be good if you and anyone else who bought the frame document the build process to see if there's any flaws etc. Also would this frame fit a coil?
The current hightower v2 can barely run a coil with its flip chip on the low setting. This frame doesn't have a flip chip and so it mimics the hightower in its high setting . So i highly doubt u can run a coil in the frame
-
Attached more pictures for the Groupbuy A of the Frame FS-AM831.
Thanks for all the supporting.
Anyone missed the groupbuy A, please go to the Groupbuy B contact Eddy.
-
The current hightower v2 can barely run a coil with its flip chip on the low setting. This frame doesn't have a flip chip and so it mimics the hightower in its high setting . So i highly doubt u can run a coil in the frame
I believe this was answered. The Santa Cruz does not fit a coil shock, so this frame most likely does not either. Check https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/bikes/hightower#technical-support
Thanks guys, Will wait for afew more reviews on the frame before ordering.
-
Dear frame owners,
My frame will be shipped this week. Can't wait to start building it.
Just a few questions.
1. What are the dimensions of the shock mounts? I know, asked a couple of times but the original SC Hightower has 30mm at the linkage side and 20mm at the frame side. Here w/ AM831 it seems the other way around. 30mm at the frame and 22.86mm at linkage. This would be standard FOX dimensions.
2. Did someone successfully install a linkage mod? If so, was it the standard or mullet link from cascade? Here the eyelet spacing is 8mm x 30mm, which is the original SC size. This upgrad is just too expensive to wild guess.
Thanks
-
Gentlemen,
I'm looking at the Chain guard/ protector and the downtube protector from SC High Tower. Just wondering anyone who already built the bike to confirm, those protector would fit/ usable.
I'm appreciated for your input in advance.
Happy riding,
Bsam.
-
After being out of town, waiting for parts, and finding the time. I was finally able to finish the build up today. Hopefully I can get it in some dirt soon.
It looks really nice Geekbox32. Congrat.
-
The frame is a close approximation of the original with the same dimensions, but isn't an exact copy. I don't think I would expect anything off the original to bolt right on to this one. It might fit, or fit with some modifications but it would be a complete gamble and might not even be close, IMO.
-
Receiving my small frame on Thursday I’ll take more measurements if you guys need.
I’m not building it soon but actually disassembling it for custom paint by a friend that those airbrush so I can measure all the bolts and linkage
Cheers
-
Elgaucher - any specs on bearings you can get will be appreciated.
-
Can anyone confirm the rear shock mounting hardware? 8x30 and 8x22.?
Measured 22.8 and 30.3mm. The front mount will be less precise as it is a painted surface.
Thinking of using 21.85mm needle bearing and 0.5mm spacers x2.
https://www.enduroforkseals.com/products/rear-suspension/shock-eyelet-bearing-kits/6mm-8mm-thru-bolts/NEEDLE-BEARING-21.85.html (https://www.enduroforkseals.com/products/rear-suspension/shock-eyelet-bearing-kits/6mm-8mm-thru-bolts/NEEDLE-BEARING-21.85.html)
(https://d24rugpqfx7kpb.cloudfront.net/RWC/2A2F5A4BA99B8AA0E0BE542EE97A519F/l5010_nb_instl_9.jpg/2f42d6aabf24ef45566d7dff71c36557.webp)
-
Thinking of using 21.85mm needle bearing and 0.5mm spacers x2.
https://www.enduroforkseals.com/products/rear-suspension/shock-eyelet-bearing-kits/6mm-8mm-thru-bolts/NEEDLE-BEARING-21.85.html (https://www.enduroforkseals.com/products/rear-suspension/shock-eyelet-bearing-kits/6mm-8mm-thru-bolts/NEEDLE-BEARING-21.85.html)
Have you tried such bearings already? I've read pretty bad reviews saying that they started rattling after a while.
-
Have you tried such bearings already? I've read pretty bad reviews saying that they started rattling after a while.
You really have to make sure you use the right axle. They come with three different sizes and if you go with one that is too loose it will start to wear fast. Grease them up when you service the shock and check if the larger axle(s) fit, it isn't that bad but you can make a mess if you use a standard bushing removal tool. Roller bearings are a more robust solution but I haven't found any smaller than 30mm.
If you're not one to tear the bike down and grease pivots and bearings every year then it might be safer to stick to bushings.
-
Concerning rear shock bearings I vote against: the relative movements between parts is of a few degrees and very slow: there is absolutely no need for bearings, bushing is the best solution IMHO.
Bearings will be more expensive and prone to failures due to corrosion, mud etc etc.
Consider that the shock has a damper, that it's made to dissipate energy through movement in a viscous fluid (oil); some more friction in the bushing is absolutely insignificant.
-
Concerning rear shock bearings I vote against: the relative movements between parts is of a few degrees and very slow: there is absolutely no need for bearings, bushing is the best solution IMHO.
Bearings will be more expensive and prone to failures due to corrosion, mud etc etc.
Consider that the shock has a damper, that it's made to dissipate energy through movement in a viscous fluid (oil); some more friction in the bushing is absolutely insignificant.
I would like to disagree. When i changed my ican p9 top bushing to a roller bearing the suspension was so much more active. The force needed to start compression was significantly less. In the end it all depends on the suspension platform and how much rotation does the bushing experience
-
The top bushing on the 831 is really not going to rotate much. It might be more worth installing needle bearings in the bottom bushing...
-
The top bushing on the 831 is really not going to rotate much. It might be more worth installing needle bearings in the bottom bushing...
Exactly, one point of contact is going to have a lot more movement than the other and that is where a bearing helps if you have binding or sticky issues. One of the big reasons that the hightower gets all that "plush suspension" praise is the roller bearing damper on the stock Super Deluxe which we can't use...
-
I would like to disagree. When i changed my ican p9 top bushing to a roller bearing the suspension was so much more active. The force needed to start compression was significantly less. In the end it all depends on the suspension platform and how much rotation does the bushing experience
I agree. Hard to tell how much difference it makes in the middle and end of the travel and is probably the equivalent of a little less dampening, but for the small stuff it makes the shock much more active. On the last bike I installed it on I had to increase the shock pressure because it also allowed more sag.
For this frame it's the 22 mm mount that benefits from bearings. I already have the RWC 22.2 mm as well as the 0.5 mm washers ready to put in the shock. Just waiting for the frame to double check the width.
The last time I installed the RWC bearings they were still running smooth after 4 years. There was a small clunk if I lifted the rear end and took weight off the shock but it was never felt while riding. It wasn't in the bearings and according to RWC it was normal in some applications so I stopped worrying and trying to troubleshoot it. The only thing I could figure was that the mounting bolt was slightly smaller than the hole in the 'axle' that ran thru the needle bearings and it never seemed to have a negative effect other than feeling a slight clunk when lifting the bike.
-
One of the big reasons that the hightower gets all that "plush suspension" praise is the roller bearing damper on the stock Super Deluxe which we can't use...
Why can't we use it?
-
There was a small clunk if I lifted the rear end and took weight off the shock but it was never felt while riding. It wasn't in the bearings and according to RWC it was normal in some applications so I stopped worrying and trying to troubleshoot it.
Well, that was the kind of negative feedback I saw on this type of bearings... Not very reassuring - this means you have a clunk at each compression/extension, small enough at the beginning to not notice or hear while riding, but you end up with an oval bore!
Anyway, putting roller bearings in pivots that don't do full turns does not make sense - the forces are always spread over a same small portion of the bearing, which will wear out prematurely. That's why some manufacturers also use bushings in their frame pivots (like Rocky Mountain).
-
Why can't we use it?
It is 30mm wide and the opening is 22.Xmm.
-
Well, that was the kind of negative feedback I saw on this type of bearings... Not very reassuring
I dunno, after 4 years that seems pretty reasonable.
I have used needle bearings on all my kids bike builds on the higher rotating end. The RWC one needed more fettling work than any of the Enduro bearings versions. Fancy RWC anodized end caps aside (which I think are actually the problem) I would use the enduro version again. Its less pretty but better ime.
-
So is it ok to use Fox 22.86mm mounting hardware in the back? Or is it not the right fit? Too tight? Is it better to get 22mm and buy some spacers?
-
So is it ok to use Fox 22.86mm mounting hardware in the back? Or is it not the right fit? Too tight? Is it better to get 22mm and buy some spacers?
As long as your shock has a 1/2" eyelet it should fit, how well it fits is a different story. I also don't have the frame yet so I don't know if 22.86mm is too big so I opted for 22mm and spacers as some have measured 22.6mm. That just seems like 22mm or 22.2mm with shit tolerances.
-
So my frame came in today and like I said I’ve disassembled it completely for paint prep.
Bearing are all unmarked but tomorrow I’ll have a digital caliper to take measurements.
More info to come
-
I should have had my frame today too but USPS delivered it to the wrong address! it even required a signature but that wasnt even enough to prevent an incorrect delivery. i really hope they can recover it but seeing as i havent heard back from them and its already 7pm here, i fear the worst.
-
Oh, that sucks. Hope you get it back.
Got my large frame today. Haven't got to open it yet, though. I'll pop it open when I get home in a bit.
-
I should have had my frame today too but USPS delivered it to the wrong address! it even required a signature but that wasnt even enough to prevent an incorrect delivery. i really hope they can recover it but seeing as i havent heard back from them and its already 7pm here, i fear the worst.
Eddy,
There are some really nice and honest people. A lady with two young babies just dropped off the box . It was delivered to her house by mistake and she went through the trouble to make sure it was delivered correctly thank you for all your help and sorry for bothering you! I have thr frame now.
Jon
The frame received, thanks.
-
Gentlemen,
I recently purchased this rear shock in preparation for the build. I made sure it is 210x55mm rear shock. However, I wasn't pay attention to the way the eyelids are. They are not facing the same direction. Is that mean i'm out of luck with this rear shock? Is there a way it can be converted from 90 degree facing to same direction facing?
I'm appreciated for your advice in advance.
Best regards,
Bsam.
-
I've been trying to reply to say Eddie beat me to the punch and I've received the frame after all! Any post with pictures doesn't seem to want to post however.
In anycase , hightower lower link does not fit. the 30mm mount on the link that could fit thr rockshox bearing eyelet is too wide to fit through the frame . Otherwise, it seemed like an exact same match.
Edit- finally worked .
-
Gentlemen,
I recently purchased this rear shock in preparation for the build. I made sure it is 210x55mm rear shock. However, I wasn't pay attention to the way the eyelids are. They are not facing the same direction. Is that mean i'm out of luck with this rear shock? Is there a way it can be converted from 90 degree facing to same direction facing?
I'm appreciated for your advice in advance.
Best regards,
Bsam.
Let all the air pressure out and rotate the lower shaft until it's in the correct position. Just got twisted at some point and will turn back and might not need the air let out but should be easier without the pressure.
-
In any case, hightower lower link does not fit. the 30mm mount on the link that could fit the rockshox bearing eyelet is too wide to fit through the frame. Otherwise, it seemed like an exact same match.
Damn. The hightower link looks much beefier. What do these things weigh?
-
Damn. The hightower link looks much beefier. What do these things weigh?
Don't know. The tideace one is definitely lighter but that's back on the frame and the SC one is in a box to be sent back.
I also got the nomad 5 chainstay protector since they didn't have the hightower one in stock. It actually fits pretty well. The last bit just doesn't go completely around the chainstay but you can't really see that unless you look under the frame and it's still very tightly attached to the bike. I wonder if the actual hightower part might actually fit better still.
-
You can simply rotate the airshaft 90degres.
In a vice, or if you're careful, a Allen key/bar/socket through each eyelet and turn
-
Finished the build yesterday and finally got a ride on the new bike! It was awesome :) This is my first full suspension, and it is SOOOO plush, probably overkill for my Dallas area trails but appreciated nonetheless. I took it on my local trail (3 miles out, 5 mile trail, 3 miles back) and it performed flawlessly even after I stiffened up the rear suspension a bit given the moderate-easy terrain. I'll post a build list soon, but as you can see this bike can handle awesome components just fine ;D. (And I do have blue stickers on order for the New-to-me Fox 36)
-
Did you go bushing or bearing in the back? What size? Any spacers needed?
-
Did you go bushing or bearing in the back? What size? Any spacers needed?
This is exactly what I bought that fit perfectly with my Fox shock.
Fox Shox Shock Mount Hardware w/ Crush Washer, M8x22.86mm - https://www.ebay.com/itm/373611432565
Fox Shox Shock Mount Hardware w/ Crush Washer, M8x30.00mm - https://www.ebay.com/itm/373426024403
-
Took the digital caliper out and measured my frame also
front mount : 30mm like everyone else
Rear mount : 22.8mm also like most people
Here's what I got for bearing but I would 2x check also as I measured them still pressed in, not planning on changing them yet
top link bearing : 10x19x5, 6800-2rs x 2
lower link bearing : 12x21x5 , 6801-2rs x 4
chainstay bearing : 15x23.75/24, 6802-2rs x 2
I also contacted Manitou to check the piggyback length of the Manitou Mara pro , I measured that we have around 130mm of clearance from front shock mount to the seat tube.
Manitou confirmed that from the top eyelet to the end of the piggyback is 100mm or 115mm depending on the shock dimension so it should fit.
I'll take the plunge as I really want to match brand with my Mezzer.
-
Damn. I ordered 22.2mm rear hardware thinking the 22.86mm might be too big.
-
You can simply rotate the airshaft 90degres.
In a vice, or if you're careful, a Allen key/bar/socket through each eyelet and turn
Thank you for your advice Jonnybearback.
-
Let all the air pressure out and rotate the lower shaft until it's in the correct position. Just got twisted at some point and will turn back and might not need the air let out but should be easier without the pressure.
Followed your advise. Worked like a champ. ;). Thank you FlaMtnBkr
-
This is exactly what I bought that fit perfectly with my Fox shock.
Fox Shox Shock Mount Hardware w/ Crush Washer, M8x22.86mm - https://www.ebay.com/itm/373611432565
Fox Shox Shock Mount Hardware w/ Crush Washer, M8x30.00mm - https://www.ebay.com/itm/373426024403
Congrat to your new bike. Thank you for sharing with us Fieroracer.
-
Question to all European/German buyers.
How long did it take from Eddy's tracking number mail til frame will be at my home door? Got the mail 9.9.
Service by DPD and my last CN frame (delivery by DPD) was simply dropped without notification, signature, door bell...
Did anyone get a RS Super Deluxe installed? Maybe with the RockShox Megneg Air Can? Did it fit the original link and frame tunnel? I received a new 210x55 SC Heckler version. Top 30x8 -->very nice, bottom 20x8--> new set FOX 22.86 required.
Anyone intending to do some link modding? Interested in a Cascade like modification?
Maybe Cascade can do a mod for us if there are some takers. As they CNC from an aluminum block a light modification of the original file should be possible, if not only for me.
Have a nice day.
-
Question to all European/German buyers.
How long did it take from Eddy's tracking number mail til frame will be at my home door? Got the mail 9.9.
Service by DPD and my last CN frame (delivery by DPD) was simply dropped without notification, signature, door bell...
Did anyone get a RS Super Deluxe installed? Maybe with the RockShox Megneg Air Can? Did it fit the original link and frame tunnel? I received a new 210x55 SC Heckler version. Top 30x8 -->very nice, bottom 20x8--> new set FOX 22.86 required.
Anyone intending to do some link modding? Interested in a Cascade like modification?
Maybe Cascade can do a mod for us if there are some takers. As they CNC from an aluminum block a light modification of the original file should be possible, if not only for me.
Have a nice day.
fantastic man i bought the same shock but gotta use a ship forwarder as rockshox doesnt ship to my country .
as for the cascade link i doubt they will entertain us as it would require some change of code for the cnc machine and i dont think we have a large enough number enough for them to entertain us.
-
Did anyone get a RS Super Deluxe installed? Maybe with the RockShox Megneg Air Can? Did it fit the original link and frame tunnel? I received a new 210x55 SC Heckler version. Top 30x8 -->very nice, bottom 20x8--> new set FOX 22.86 required.
Anyone intending to do some link modding? Interested in a Cascade like modification?
Maybe Cascade can do a mod for us if there are some takers. As they CNC from an aluminum block a light modification of the original file should be possible, if not only for me.
Have a nice day.
Maybe it is an English as a second language difference but I think from your description as well as Haideli that we have fundamental differences of top and bottom. I believe the all the different SC versions have the 30mm roller bearing at the bottom of the damper which I consider the bottom of the shock. It also makes the logos "right reading" and not upside down. That was the primary reason a few of us bought it, it is already tuned for a hightower or similar, etc. only to find out that the mount under the top tube was 30mm not the mount at the lower pivot point.
I purchased a standard eyelet damper to replace it but I may see if there is enough material to be able to remove ~7mm and fit the 30mm roller bearing in the stock link without compromising safety. We could also ask for the link engineering drawing and have a one off made maybe even with the option for the stock flip chip or in a similar position for a low mode.
-
Question to all European/German buyers.
How long did it take from Eddy's tracking number mail til frame will be at my home door? Got the mail 9.9.
Service by DPD and my last CN frame (delivery by DPD) was simply dropped without notification, signature, door bell...
I got DPD notification number on 30.8, the frame was probably sent 1-2 days later with WXY; on WXY tracking they say left warehouse on 4.9. As of today it hasn't landed in Europe yet.
My average transit time China-Italy with DPD is 15 days so it should be close; when DPD receives it in Netherlands or Czeck republic it arrives at my door in Italy in 1-2 days.
Waiting with finger crossed 8)
-
Question to all European/German buyers.
How long did it take from Eddy's tracking number mail til frame will be at my home door? Got the mail 9.9.
Service by DPD and my last CN frame (delivery by DPD) was simply dropped without notification, signature, door bell...
Did anyone get a RS Super Deluxe installed? Maybe with the RockShox Megneg Air Can? Did it fit the original link and frame tunnel? I received a new 210x55 SC Heckler version. Top 30x8 -->very nice, bottom 20x8--> new set FOX 22.86 required.
Anyone intending to do some link modding? Interested in a Cascade like modification?
Maybe Cascade can do a mod for us if there are some takers. As they CNC from an aluminum block a light modification of the original file should be possible, if not only for me.
Have a nice day.
I would be interested in a cascade link that would fit this frame. I also had the idea of asking them but thought there wouldn't be enough interest. So I thought maybe if we can get the dimensions of the cascade link we could ask whomever makes the stock link for tideace to make it
-
No need to start a mother tongue discussion. Just for clarification.
Let us simply use top/frame/front or bottom/link/rear side. On the SC website it is called front/rear.
I received the shock and was happy to see that the 30mm bushing was top/frame/front side. Still a lot available from 250€ and up @wiggle or bike24. Next will be the megneg if it fits in. Then frame damper is ticked.
Maybe it is worth asking for the interest here for a kind of group order concerning the Cascade link. Unfortunately Haideli was choosing the SC link HI position IMHO, but I do prefer the way down compared to riding up. This leads to one of the main drawback of the SC HIGHTOWER V2, i.e. blowing through travel (even with megneg upgrade for the RS Super Deluxe) on drops and jumps. So light Enduro vs Trail/XC version of the same frame.
If more bottom out resistance through more progression, plus 10mm more rear travel with same shock spec is of interest then the LT link or mullet link might be an option and ...
... with sufficient interest we could convince Cascade to change the file for the CNC process.
Just an idea....
-
No, you're right. The Heckler eMTB version of the Super Deluxe is the opposite of the others SC bikes so that was my mistake and I didn't intend to offend.
While I like the idea of a low position we don't know how well the factory link handles. It is a little longer and is supposed to have ~150mm travel already. I would wait until there is feedback before going through the trouble, it could be great as is.
Although, if we can get the engineering diagram, or somebody here with a frame and CAD knowledge can make one, and make modifications any internet or local CNC house can make them for less than the cost of the Cascade link. That would assume affordable alloy blocks and reusing bearings or sourcing them elsewhere. Now I just want the CAD file to play, need to talk to Eddy :)
-
I purchased a standard eyelet damper to replace it but I may see if there is enough material to be able to remove ~7mm and fit the 30mm roller bearing in the stock link without compromising safety.
It seems like it could work. Mine measured 28mm without the dust covers and it has a 1mm lip on the inside. So not too much more to shave off.
Although I'd did just get the new standard eyelet damper body in . Was trying to find a how-to or anything on how to swap it. Only found the sram service manual for the super deluxe but that's was for a full 200hr service. My shock is new so doesn't need service. do you know if I were to just replace the damper how much oil do I need to fill it with ? I got some 7wt but was wondering if I could even just use what was in the "old" damper.
-
Bad news from WXY :( . Transit time China-Italy is average 15 days but the parcel departs when they fill completely a cargo plane; it can cause delays like this time.
-
It seems like it could work. Mine measured 28mm without the dust covers and it has a 1mm lip on the inside. So not too much more to shave off.
Although I'd did just get the new standard eyelet damper body in . Was trying to find a how-to or anything on how to swap it. Only found the sram service manual for the super deluxe but that's was for a full 200hr service. My shock is new so doesn't need service. do you know if I were to just replace the damper how much oil do I need to fill it with ? I got some 7wt but was wondering if I could even just use what was in the "old" damper.
I am hoping to simply drain the existing damper into an unused brake bleed syringe without draining the piggyback, shoot the oil in the new damper, swap, done :) I have done a 200 hour service on a Monarch RC3 and a damper replacement on shocks without a piggyback but I've never done a damper change on one with a piggyback - basically I'm hoping not to make a mess but I am fully prepared for my "simple" plan to fail which would suck because my shock is brand new as well.
-
Snacks and cybrsrce...
please check PM
cheers
-
It seems like it could work. Mine measured 28mm without the dust covers and it has a 1mm lip on the inside. So not too much more to shave off.
Although I'd did just get the new standard eyelet damper body in . Was trying to find a how-to or anything on how to swap it. Only found the sram service manual for the super deluxe but that's was for a full 200hr service. My shock is new so doesn't need service. do you know if I were to just replace the damper how much oil do I need to fill it with ? I got some 7wt but was wondering if I could even just use what was in the "old" damper.
The Piggy back and damper circuit is pressurized. Once you take off the damper shaft if you didn't depressurize the piggyback, the damper will start to empty itself all over yourself and your workspace.
I ended up using ~100ml of oil to replace all the oil and bleed the circuit. You can probaly get away with a lot less to just bleed the system.
-
Dear All:
The full bicycle available.
If anyone missed the groupbuy A order, then please join the groupbuy B.
Contact us via email, eddy@haidelibicycle.com
Many thanks.
Eddy
-
Hi,
New to the forum and just received my frame. M size. Looks good BUT:
Like “riding_truckee”, my seatpost insertion length limited by few imperfections in the downtube (at the connection with horizontal tube). Tried to remove with sandpaper for 2 hours but still a lot to go… This stuff is pretty hard and don’t want to damage the tube by removing too much.
Like “cybrsrce”, I need to change my bearing eyelet by a standard one on the Super Deluxe I had already purchased before receiving the frame (got the spare already but looking for a tuto).
A new issue (that I have not seen on the forum yet) is one of the rear triangle thread came damaged .. and has damaged the link bolt. I will try to repair the triangle insert thread (with a drill tap) but need a new bolt. Contacted winowsport and waiting feedback. Will see.
-
Has anyone used any type of rubber grommet where the cables enter the head tube? If so, which one did you use?
-
Scourge - Sugru lets you make custom shaped ones.
-
Ok. I just watched a video on sugru. My wife is gonna go nuts for this stuff.
-
Dude that stuff is so cool! How have I not seen this before! Sooo many uses
-
Anyone used the bottom bracket that came with the frame? I measured the bb shell at 92.3-92.5mm. The central sleeve of the bb is barely holding on at that distance. Doesn't seem secure.
-
I have a noob builder question. So I bought a Manitou McLeod tear shock for my frame. I got the wrong size on the lower shock mount, but for the upper I got a Rockshox 30mm mount. I was just messing around with it last night and tried to slide the mounting pin in the eyelet. It went in a little, then got stuck. It was really hard to get out. It seemed too tight. When I go to really mount this up, will a little grease and a little more force get it in there? Or do I need to remove some sort of bushing? There is a metal ring in the eyelet, but if I remove that, it looks like the mounting pin will be way too small.
Anyone with more experience have any suggestions? Thanks.
-
Most of the Rockshox mounting hardware will require removal of the thin metal bushing in the shock eyelets. I believe they are the standard 12.7mm (1/2 inch) so Rockshox and Fox mounting hardware should work.
-
Just eyeballing it, removing the metal bushing might make the eyelet too big for the mounting pin if it's not there
-
It will depend on the kit you have, do you have calipers to measure? If the mount axle is 12.5mm then the tolerance of the eyelet isn't great but continue pressing it in... If the axle is 12.7mm then remove the eyelet bushing.
-
No calipers to measure.
Another question: there are three super thin spacers in the headset they gave us, where do they go?
-
Got my moss green medium today. I'll post some pics and weight tomorrow. Ordered a DT Swiss F535 160 to go up front. Missing a few small things, but will get started on the build.
-
No calipers to measure.
Another question: there are three super thin spacers in the headset they gave us, where do they go?
If you need them they would go on the top race before you put on the headset cover. They are there to make sure you can properly preload without the headset cover making too much contact with the frame and binding up the whole thing so you can't steer. It should cover all the headset bits just enough to keep dirt out but not so much that there is a big gap under it.
-
Got my moss green medium today. I'll post some pics and weight tomorrow. Ordered a DT Swiss F535 160 to go up front. Missing a few small things, but will get started on the build.
We need some build threads, break up the P9 monotony...
-
Thank you cybr
-
Hi,
New to the forum and just received my frame. M size. Looks good BUT:
Like “riding_truckee”, my seatpost insertion length limited by few imperfections in the downtube (at the connection with horizontal tube). Tried to remove with sandpaper for 2 hours but still a lot to go… This stuff is pretty hard and don’t want to damage the tube by removing too much.
Like “cybrsrce”, I need to change my bearing eyelet by a standard one on the Super Deluxe I had already purchased before receiving the frame (got the spare already but looking for a tuto).
A new issue (that I have not seen on the forum yet) is one of the rear triangle thread came damaged .. and has damaged the link bolt. I will try to repair the triangle insert thread (with a drill tap) but need a new bolt. Contacted winowsport and waiting feedback. Will see.
Did you buy the frame from Eddy and the group buy or a different source? I imagine you know this, but if thru Eddy it is made by Haideli and not Winowsport. If it is winowsport then the frame might be slightly different and they could be using different hardware. But I would hope they will take care of it and send replacements since it was most likely cross threaded when they assembled it. I would also inquire about the size of it and the thread and pitch. It is probably metric threading so depending where you are from it might be hard to find the right size tap. Hopefully the female side is an insert and can be replaced when they send new hardware (hard to tell in the picture). Hopefully it's good quality but you might want to order a replacement to have just in case if they give you the full dimensions.
I assume you mean that you need to replace the mounting hardware on the shock eyelet for a different width? If so, the eyelet should have a (usually white-ish) DU bushing pressed in from both sides. There is then an "axle" that is in various lengths that match up to the width of the frame mount. This is pressed thru the bushings and is normally a pretty tight fit. Then there is usually another spacer on each side of the eyelet that touches the eyelet and extends to the end of the axle, usually with a seal or o-ring that sits in a groove next to eyelet to help keep crud out. The spacers are usually aluminum or sometimes plastic and you need to get at least one side off and it's best to use something plastic so you don't ding up anything. Something like a guitar pick will let you get between the eyelet and spacer and work around it to create a gap. Once you get a bit of a gap it's pretty easy to get off. You can then try taking something hard (plastic or wood is best) and pushing on the axle and see if it will move with hand pressure. Once out it's just a matter of pushing the new axle in and putting the new spacers on each side. However, if you can't get the axle out or new one in you will need to use a vise or long threaded bolt with washers and nuts and something like a socket that is the right diameter. For this a YouTube video will be much better to see what's required. As long as this ended up, that was probably best from the start. But if the axle isn't real tight it can be done by hand, it just depends on your shock.
For your seat tube, a long wood or plastic dowel is best, then glue a strip of sandpaper to the end, stick it down the tube and put a mark on the dowel so you know you're at the right depth, and chuck it in a drill. The dowel won't damage the seat tube and just take your time sanding and checking it often.
Good luck and sorry this got so long...
-
It will depend on the kit you have, do you have calipers to measure? If the mount axle is 12.5mm then the tolerance of the eyelet isn't great but continue pressing it in... If the axle is 12.7mm then remove the eyelet bushing.
Isn't the hole in the bushings supposed to be approx 12.7mm? And with the bushings removed and just the eyelet, it's a 15mm hole? To go from 12.5 to 12.7 with bushing removed, the bushing would only be 0.1mm thick...
-
Thank you cybr
This is out of control. I thought this thread was about the frame, and shipping etc. Wow. Admin?
-
This is out of control. I thought this thread was about the frame, and shipping etc. Wow. Admin?
What posts in this thread are not about the frame? Haven't seen that many...
-
Isn't the hole in the bushings supposed to be approx 12.7mm? And with the bushings removed and just the eyelet, it's a 15mm hole? To go from 12.5 to 12.7 with bushing removed, the bushing would only be 0.1mm thick...
DU bushings are thin. Some photo for reference.
-
This is out of control. I thought this thread was about the frame, and shipping etc. Wow. Admin?
We're here and hear you. As JJJ said, I think this thread has stayed mostly on-topic... veered off the rails a bit here and there but self-corrected. At almost 40 pages that's bound to happen a bit. All good.
I will encourage everyone to start your own build threads to ask specific questions in regards to issues with your build (and to post pics and show off, of course), as it will just help keep things more organized and therefore more helpful for other people looking for information. Please do try and title your thread with your forum handle in it or something to differentiate it from the others that are bound to pop up. Will be confusing to have 5 different "My 831 build thread" posts to go through.
Also, I think the fact that this thread is stickied to the top of the forum means that people will instinctively go straight to it with any 831 questions. Since this group buy is complete, I'll un-sticky it now. That should help.
Cheers all.
-
Bad news from WXY :( . Transit time China-Italy is average 15 days but the parcel departs when they fill completely a cargo plane; it can cause delays like this time.
Just like you, the shipping of the frame is still stuck :-\. Can someone tell me the diameter of the seatpost clamp, please? 34.9mm right?
-
Just like you, the shipping of the frame is still stuck :-\. Can someone tell me the diameter of the seatpost clamp, please? 34.9mm right?
My frame has arrived but I'll have to wait for the weekends as im not home during the weekdays :c
-
Recently WXY shipping is a little delayed, we have contact them to arrange ASAP, thanks for understanding and supporting.
Most of the customer got the frame in hand, and till now all the order for the groupbuy A have been shipped out.
If you got any question for the shipping or the problem of the frame, both feel free to contact me at any time.
Thanks.
Eddy
-
Anyone know where I can get ultra thin shims to make my 22.2mm mounting hardware work? I see them on Alliexpress but the delivery date is mid November. Kind of hoping I can find them somewhere else sooner. Thanks.
-
Just like you, the shipping of the frame is still stuck :-\. Can someone tell me the diameter of the seatpost clamp, please? 34.9mm right?
I confirm, seat post clamp 34.9; I bought it out of aliexpress with QR as I am not planning to use a dropper.
Regarding shipping it looks like most of the users here are from USA or Canada. The shipping to Europe is probably a little more tricky than to north America:
to speed up customs processing normally all aliexpress / China import stuff goes first to Belgium or Czech republic to clear the customs and then DPD handles it to final destination. Average total transit time is in my experience 15-20 days, but people experienced also up to 40-50 days.
My frame was shipped from Haideli on 31.8 and according to WXY tracking the "flight has been delayed" and it is still waiting in China.
Anybody from Europe has already received the frame? Thanks Eddy for the support, if you have news from WXY let us know.
-
Anyone know where I can get ultra thin shims to make my 22.2mm mounting hardware work? I see them on Alliexpress but the delivery date is mid November. Kind of hoping I can find them somewhere else sooner. Thanks.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002383326508.html
Change the shipping options to pay a little more to receive earlier.
-
It seems that we have to be patient, thanks Eddy for your efforts. And thank you darius72 for the seatpost clamp info and for the extensive information.
-
Has anyone used offset shock bushings to replicate the “low” setting of the Hightower? About to pull the trigger but would love a slightly slacker HA.
-
Anyone know where I can get ultra thin shims to make my 22.2mm mounting hardware work? I see them on Alliexpress but the delivery date is mid November. Kind of hoping I can find them somewhere else sooner. Thanks.
Here are some 0.5mm thick:
https://www.enduroforkseals.com/products/rear-suspension/shock-eyelet-bearing-kits/6mm-8mm-thru-bolts/SS8x17x0.5.html
The tabs on the frame might flex easily to take up the (very?) small gap. But if you start tightening the hardware and the tabs resist movement then you should find a shim, just depends how the carbon is laid whether it wants to flex or remain stiff.
You can also make your own fairly easy and they used to sell shim stock in various thicknesses but I don't know where you find it these days. But you can use a soda can cut open and laid flat, or copper gasket material, or even tar paper. Then use a hole punch to cut the inside and outside diameter, for the most professional look, though scissors can also be used if you take your time. If you don't have or can't find the right size hole punches, you can also find metal pipe with the I.D. of the hole you want to make. Then grind the outside circumference at a 45 to 60 degree angle until you meet the inside and form a sharp edge. Then use this to tap on the end and cut the material.
I also have 22.2mm spacer and should have the frame Monday and can see how well it fits and let you know if you don't have yours yet.
-
DU bushings are thin. Some photo for reference.
What brand shock is that? DU is a plastic and that looks more like a coating or ceramic that was sprayed on? I've had Fox, Rockshox, DVO and now Suntour and they all are quite different with a 15mm hole in the eyelet and plastic bushings that bring it down to a 12.7mm hole.
Something like this:
(https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/img/help/page251-lSANk8/New_reducers_001-m.jpg)
I guess different companies do things their own way and I'm not sure how to handle that type, but I can't imagine any shock that doesn't have an insert that can be replaced when it wears, and is meant to ride on the bare aluminum instead.
-
What brand shock is that? DU is a plastic and that looks more like a coating or ceramic that was sprayed on? I've had Fox, Rockshox, DVO and now Suntour and they all are quite different with a 15mm hole in the eyelet and plastic bushings that bring it down to a 12.7mm hole.
Something like this:
(https://www.ridefox.com/fox17/img/help/page251-lSANk8/New_reducers_001-m.jpg)
I guess different companies do things their own way and I'm not sure how to handle that type, but I can't imagine any shock that doesn't have an insert that can be replaced when it wears, and is meant to ride on the bare aluminum instead.
That would be a Rockshox Super Deluxe Ultimate. A lot of the rockshox mount kits are meant to be installed with the metal bushing, some are not. I like the Fox urethane versions better so that play doesn't ruin the eyelet but Rockshox still come with metal bushings that require a removal tool or some creativity with bolts and sockets.
-
That would be a Rockshox Super Deluxe Ultimate. A lot of the rockshox mount kits are meant to be installed with the metal bushing, some are not. I like the Fox urethane versions better so that play doesn't ruin the eyelet but Rockshox still come with metal bushings that require a removal tool or some creativity with bolts and sockets.
I'm not sure why they call it a DU bushing because it doesn't seem like plastic that thin would do much or be durable?
I'm also very surprised they recommend installing the shock with it removed so it's bare aluminum and without something that can be replaced after it wears from rotation, no matter how slight it is. That had me pretty confused...and I didn't want someone to damage their new shock.
I don't think I would be very happy with Rockshox if I had a bike that had to be setup that way!
-
Here are some 0.5mm thick:
https://www.enduroforkseals.com/products/rear-suspension/shock-eyelet-bearing-kits/6mm-8mm-thru-bolts/SS8x17x0.5.html
The tabs on the frame might flex easily to take up the (very?) small gap. But if you start tightening the hardware and the tabs resist movement then you should find a shim, just depends how the carbon is laid whether it wants to flex or remain stiff.
You can also make your own fairly easy and they used to sell shim stock in various thicknesses but I don't know where you find it these days. But you can use a soda can cut open and laid flat, or copper gasket material, or even tar paper. Then use a hole punch to cut the inside and outside diameter, for the most professional look, though scissors can also be used if you take your time. If you don't have or can't find the right size hole punches, you can also find metal pipe with the I.D. of the hole you want to make. Then grind the outside circumference at a 45 to 60 degree angle until you meet the inside and form a sharp edge. Then use this to tap on the end and cut the material.
I also have 22.2mm spacer and should have the frame Monday and can see how well it fits and let you know if you don't have yours yet.
Frame flex shouldn't matter. The 22.2mm is the lower eyelet that connects to the metal linkage. That thing feels solid. I don't think its going to flex. The .5mm bushings you sent in the link look good, but I think they may be too big. People have said 22.86 works, so 22.2 plus another two .5mm shims give a us 23.2mm. I'm thinking that might be too thick. The shims ar only two bucks so I may order some to try. Your soda can idea is interesting.
-
WXY-Express = 2021-09-17 18:20:00 TAKE_OFF Flight has departed :D
-
Same here flight departed with same timing. We are on the same flight. Final destination Italy. Where do you live JAL?
-
Frame flex shouldn't matter. The 22.2mm is the lower eyelet that connects to the metal linkage. That thing feels solid. I don't think its going to flex. The .5mm bushings you sent in the link look good, but I think they may be too big. People have said 22.86 works, so 22.2 plus another two .5mm shims give a us 23.2mm. I'm thinking that might be too thick. The shims ar only two bucks so I may order some to try. Your soda can idea is interesting.
Yeah, without the frame in hand (supposed to be monday) I was picturing the front mount even though I know that's 30mm. My mistake. I have those shims in hand as I was making an order anyways and I will post how a 22.2 spacer and one fits as soon as I get the frame if anyone is interested. I would imagine different thicknesses are available on eBay or McMaster and similar if someone rather buy them.
With those shims you can use just one, bringing it to 22.7. So that's 0.16mm which can't be much more than a sheet of paper if that. At some point it will have to be considered close enough or figure out some custom thickness shims whether made or bought.
I've made many shims over the years from soda or beer cans and they work well. Sometimes a plastic bottle works too, and come in a wider range of thicknesses.
-
I ordered some .1mm shims but they won't be here until mid October. I figure I could use three or four on each side. May do soda can shim until they get here.
-
Same here flight departed with same timing. We are on the same flight. Final destination Italy. Where do you live JAL?
Spain. Yes, it seems our frames are coming on the same flight then
-
Spain. Yes, it seems our frames are coming on the same flight then
Hey guys, curious to know, how long did it take for your to get a tracking number after paying for your frame?
Thanks,
-
Hey guys, curious to know, how long did it take for your to get a tracking number after paying for your frame?
Thanks,
The questions hasn't unique answer: I bought the frame in June and they told me I have to wait approx 1 month for building the frame; also Haideli found some problems on rear triangle and had some delays in production due to modification. At the end of August they told me the frame was ready and the day after they shipped it and emailed me the tracking number.
I think now the frames are in stock or have quite short production time; the first buyers on this thread waited as long as six months, they bought a dream that now is becoming real.
-
Similar to darius72, but I ordered and paid in mid-April. There wasn't even a sample photo of what the size L frame looked like, but the aesthetics of the samples and geometry of the Hightower caught my eye. The shape of the seat tube changed in the final production version compared to the photos of the samples, I'm not sure if changed for the better according to my taste, at least for the large sizes, I'll see when receive it... On August 27th Eddy asked me for address confirmation, the frame was ready to ship and on September 1st I already had the tracking number. But now will be another story, production is underway and the wait will be short I guess.
-
Hey guys, curious to know, how long did it take for your to get a tracking number after paying for your frame?
Thanks,
I ordered after the first group buy, but before the second, on August 8th. Custom single paint color size M, was recently told it was in paint, or queue for paint, and hasn't shipped yet. If I get it under two months for ordering I will consider that a win. Raw carbon or stock color and I probably would have it, or at least a shipping number, by now.
-
I ordered after the first group buy, but before the second, on August 8th. Custom single paint color size M, was recently told it was in paint, or queue for paint, and hasn't shipped yet. If I get it under two months for ordering I will consider that a win. Raw carbon or stock color and I probably would have it, or at least a shipping number, by now.
Right on, thank you - I'm not sure what Group buy I was part of (Maybe B) I ordered middle of August and just got my tracking number
-
hi guys ive received my M size frame recently so im here just to update the rest on some issues
1)as mentioned before the seat tube will not accept a dropper post all the way into the frame (150mm dropper for reference)
i have tried sanding it for abit but havent managed it to get it to fit cant seem to find whats stopping it
ive settled on using a shim to run my dropper all the way slammed with a 30.9 dropper
2) even with the m size frame the fork will contact the downtube of the frame so a headset spacer will be needed.
your mileage my very im using a lyrik ultimate 51mm offset for reference ( idk if offset will make a difference)
-
hi guys ive received my M size frame recently so im here just to update the rest on some issues
1)as mentioned before the seat tube will not accept a dropper post all the way into the frame (150mm dropper for reference)
i have tried sanding it for abit but havent managed it to get it to fit cant seem to find whats stopping it
ive settled on using a shim to run my dropper all the way slammed with a 30.9 dropper
2) even with the m size frame the fork will contact the downtube of the frame so a headset spacer will be needed.
your mileage my very im using a lyrik ultimate 51mm offset for reference ( idk if offset will make a difference)
Thanks for the dropper information and tip about the smaller diameter working as an option.
You may not be surprised to hear but that big charger damper knob hits a lot of frames. I'm going to pick up a 3mm Cane Creek crown race spacer just in case.
Are you using the supplied headset?
-
Frame flex shouldn't matter. The 22.2mm is the lower eyelet that connects to the metal linkage. That thing feels solid. I don't think its going to flex. The .5mm bushings you sent in the link look good, but I think they may be too big. People have said 22.86 works, so 22.2 plus another two .5mm shims give a us 23.2mm. I'm thinking that might be too thick. The shims ar only two bucks so I may order some to try. Your soda can idea is interesting.
0.3mm shims are available
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000857907277.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.2ad93c00sm8jy6&mp=1 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000857907277.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.2ad93c00sm8jy6&mp=1)
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32973709111.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.2ad93c00sm8jy6&mp=1 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32973709111.html?spm=a2g0o.cart.0.0.2ad93c00sm8jy6&mp=1)
-
I saw those. I bought some .1mm shims. I'm guessing it won't make a difference if I use multiple .1 shims instead of one .3mm. at least I hope it won't make a difference.
-
Thanks for the dropper information and tip about the smaller diameter working as an option.
You may not be surprised to hear but that big charger damper knob hits a lot of frames. I'm going to pick up a 3mm Cane Creek crown race spacer just in case.
Are you using the supplied headset?
yup this was done with the suppiled headset. I'll be getting the reverse crownrace like many others here.
-
Got the frame today. I have to go out so will go over it better later but it looks good so far. It's a large painted frame and with just the der hanger it weighs 2435g.
I stuck the rear shock in since I pulled the shipping rod to weigh it, and with the 22.2mm rear mounting hardware I was able to put one 0.5mm shim in and it was a pretty tight fit and I can't feel any "slop" or play even before tightening the bolt.
I also slid the Suntour Auron fork in with the bearings just to get an idea on clearance, and one side misses and the other side with dampening knobs just barely hits. A couple 2 or 3 mm will probably be all it needs. But I imagine it will depend on the fork and some will clear a large frame.
I will work on it later and add any thoughts or issues I come across
Edit: spelling
-
I also slid the Suntour Auron fork in with the bearings just to get an idea on clearance, and one side misses and the other side with dampening knows just barely hits. A couple 2 or 3 mm will probably be all it needs. But I imagine it will depend on the fork and some will clear a large frame.
Can someone post the exact specs for a crown race spacer that worked for them?
-
Can someone post the exact specs for a crown race spacer that worked for them?
For the M sized frame, a rockshox lyrik ultimate just barely scratches the downtube
-
Can someone post the exact specs for a crown race spacer that worked for them?
Currently available options that will work without a special bearing:
3mm race
https://canecreek.com/product/3mm-52-40mm-alloy-crown-race-baa0855k/
6mm race
https://canecreek.com/product/6mm-52-40mm-alloy-crown-race-baa1078k/
10mm -0.5 degree race
https://reverse-components.com/en/products/05%C2%B0-angle-spacer-tapered-forks
Alternatively, use a downtube protector as a bump stop :) :
https://www.ridewrap.ca/products/shuttle-armor/
Specialized used to make a tall race for stumpjumpers and I think Hope and Chris King had some sort of race spacer available. Not sure if any of those wold work right without a specific headset lower to match. Anyway, don't have the frame yet but just throwing out the available offerings. There are probably others available on Ali or Amazon but for under $20 USD I picked up the 3mm Cane Creek to match the headset. I'll just add the downtube protector if it still hits, I'm not planning on doing bar spins and I move the back end on tight turns and switchbacks.
-
Cybrsrce - what size frame do you have ordered?
-
Cybrsrce - what size frame do you have ordered?
Medium
-
I just test fit a Lyrik Ultimate on a Large size frame and the adjuster knob has basically no clearance at the down tube when using the included headset and bearings. That is just holding the headset in place. I ordered the +3mm crown race mentioned above, which should be enough to clear.
Also, the seat tube appears quite long on the large frame. Looks like all the difference is made up by extending the part above the top tube. No problem inserting a dropper 9” into the frame.
-
I also got the nomad 5 chainstay protector since they didn't have the hightower one in stock. It actually fits pretty well. The last bit just doesn't go completely around the chainstay but you can't really see that unless you look under the frame and it's still very tightly attached to the bike. I wonder if the actual hightower part might actually fit better still.
Hello Snacks,
I had a hard time to squeeze the chainstay protector in there. I was just wondering if you had any trick to make it going in easier.
Thank you.
-
Hello Snacks,
I had a hard time to squeeze the chainstay protector in there. I was just wondering if you had any trick to make it going in easier.
Thank you.
I hooked the top part on first and then rotated it around until the bottom part snapped onto the chainstay
-
Received my frame today. Quite a bit of shipping damage on the box but the frame seems unscathed.
I ended up purchasing the frame from Topfire, not Haidelai like most of you. I thought they'd be a bit faster after talking to someone else on another forum and their own statements - I was wrong.
Furthermore, they shipped the frame without anything in the way of spacers where the shock was meant to be - the frame was free to slam in to itself over and over on the way here - fortunately doesn't show.
They also sent literally no hardware other than what I requested (and was charged for) specifically - a rear axle and hanger. I guess I'll need to source everything else from a SC dealer and hope it fits? The other two full sus bikes I've purchased (from different Chinese manufacturers) at least had like... some hardware...
I also asked for a RAW frame, unpainted - which they agreed initially. They informed me when it was ready to ship (like 9 months later) that they weren't going to do that - it was coming matte black whether I like it or not.
Between this and their poor organization (they sent a message saying I had to pay more for shipping if I wanted a rush shipment and no duties, and then realized they were looking at the wrong country) I'd HIGHLY recommend avoiding them and going with Haideli. I know I should have. I sure hope that I never have any further issues with this, I think I'd be completely on my own.
Edit: Can someone else measure the thread pitch and length of the included axle? I didn't actually get one despite paying for one. Stick with Eddie guys =/
-
Earlier in this posting (I think) discussion was around the geometry and being slightly different then the actual HT. I'm wondering if all the issues around top of fork not clearing the down tube makes me wonder that had they stretched where the down tube and top tube connect by the head tube, they're is a real possible this would be the area where the geo would come back in alignment.
-
It's not an exact copy and I would be surprised if they had an actual frame and just went by the numbers and pictures and the rest was their take on how to fill in the gaps. Just a guess but I wouldn't expect anything from the HT to fit very well if at all. Anyways...
On my frame I found one of the most forward bearings on the rear triangle (the one that takes an 8mm hex), the recessed hole for the bolt head is recessed a little too much so that when the bolt bottoms out on the metal link, the bolt head hasn't tightened down on the rear triangle, so the triangle can flex in and out on the bolt. I know that's an awkward description but hopefully makes sense. So basically the bolt needs a washer under the head to fill in space so the bolt can tighten down on the carbon. However the bolt is very wide and the head is just slightly bigger so won't be a standard size.
I cut a plastic bottle open and used heavy scissors to cut out a washer mainly to see if it was thick enough and if it would work before taking the time to make a nicer one. It worked fine and all the side to side play is gone. Just something others might want to look for and wasn't immediately obvious.
-
The axle is 12mm x 172mm long and the thread is M12 x 1.5 x 16mm long
-
What do you guys think I should do for decals when I paint the bike? I don't really like the one colour/no writing look, but obviously there's no "proper" way to do them. I kinda broke down the following options:
1. Just do Santa Cruz decals - I don't really like this. It's a bit too on the nose, but just a little off, ya know?
2. Do some chinese brand's decals - I don't mind "831" for the model, but all their names are kinda... eh?
3. Some random "cool" word as a brand
4. Just do the name of an already existing open mold importing brand
5. Decals from a brand that currently uses VPP but does not use the low-slung version (yet) - think DMR, Diamondback, maybe even Intense! lol.
I'm kind of leaning to number 5 (not intense though), It would be kinda silly while at the same time not too far-fetched to become reality. Who's to say Diamondback doesn't have the v3 of the release planned up as a lower link bike if you see this thing ride by at a trail network?
-
What do you guys think I should do for decals when I paint the bike? I don't really like the one colour/no writing look, but obviously there's no "proper" way to do them. I kinda broke down the following options:
1. Just do Santa Cruz decals - I don't really like this. It's a bit too on the nose, but just a little off, ya know?
2. Do some chinese brand's decals - I don't mind "831" for the model, but all their names are kinda... eh?
3. Some random "cool" word as a brand
4. Just do the name of an already existing open mold importing brand
5. Decals from a brand that currently uses VPP but does not use the low-slung version (yet) - think DMR, Diamondback, maybe even Intense! lol.
I'm kind of leaning to number 5 (not intense though), It would be kinda silly while at the same time not too far-fetched to become reality. Who's to say Diamondback doesn't have the v3 of the release planned up as a lower link bike if you see this thing ride by at a trail network?
i had the same idea i settled on modifying santa cruz stickers for the font to get ' santa clauz'
-
What do you guys think I should do for decals when I paint the bike? I don't really like the one colour/no writing look, but obviously there's no "proper" way to do them. I kinda broke down the following options:
1. Just do Santa Cruz decals - I don't really like this. It's a bit too on the nose, but just a little off, ya know?
2. Do some chinese brand's decals - I don't mind "831" for the model, but all their names are kinda... eh?
3. Some random "cool" word as a brand
4. Just do the name of an already existing open mold importing brand
5. Decals from a brand that currently uses VPP but does not use the low-slung version (yet) - think DMR, Diamondback, maybe even Intense! lol.
I'm kind of leaning to number 5 (not intense though), It would be kinda silly while at the same time not too far-fetched to become reality. Who's to say Diamondback doesn't have the v3 of the release planned up as a lower link bike if you see this thing ride by at a trail network?
I'm doing a mix of 1 and 3. I bought the invisframe hightower decal kit for the vpp sticker but then will use the same branding that I use on all my direct from China frames. I have a Cricut die cut machine to make the frame decals and it does an okay job, may still order 3rd party. diylettering.com is pretty reasonable and you can design your own simple text.
-
What do you guys think I should do for decals when I paint the bike? I don't really like the one colour/no writing look, but obviously there's no "proper" way to do them. I kinda broke down the following options:
1. Just do Santa Cruz decals - I don't really like this. It's a bit too on the nose, but just a little off, ya know?
2. Do some chinese brand's decals - I don't mind "831" for the model, but all their names are kinda... eh?
3. Some random "cool" word as a brand
4. Just do the name of an already existing open mold importing brand
5. Decals from a brand that currently uses VPP but does not use the low-slung version (yet) - think DMR, Diamondback, maybe even Intense! lol.
I'm kind of leaning to number 5 (not intense though), It would be kinda silly while at the same time not too far-fetched to become reality. Who's to say Diamondback doesn't have the v3 of the release planned up as a lower link bike if you see this thing ride by at a trail network?
I like option 3. I was going to do 1 myself but thought the bend in the top tube was enough of a change that people would notice it's not a SC bike.
I am going with 3 myself but its a "brand" that I've put on all my builds so far. Monsuta. It means monster in Japanese so I theme them around different monsters or creatures. The emtb was themed after Frankensteins monster since it also took a bit of juice to get it going haha .
I , too, used a cricut to cut vinyl for the decals . Although I'm thinking of trying water slide decals this time around since they're thinner.
-
Jotegr, do some Eddy Cruz decals
-
How is everyone installing their headset? The bearings are loose in my frame. Last carbon bike I built had aluminum cups the bearings sat in and I’ve ordered a ZTTO headset that has them.
-
How is everyone installing their headset? The bearings are loose in my frame. Last carbon bike I built had aluminum cups the bearings sat in and I’ve ordered a ZTTO headset that has them.
Seeing as its an IS headset and not a ZS/EC, I'm going to place the bearing in the frame and be done with it.
-
It's an integrated headset and the frame is built with the carbon pockets aligned and at the correct angle to accept the bearings. Which don't move on the carbon and just rest there and the fork and stem all rotate on the ID of the bearings. What you were shipped is exactly what you need. You can order a better headset but it needs to be an integrated that looks like what you have. Mine is installed and works fine, give it a try. Also, I needed to use one spacer to get the top cap/seal to fit right. I still need to tighten it a bit more which might compress the split ring a bit and I might need to add a second. Just make sure the rubber seal doesn't have a gap under it and just touching the stack under it.
-
What do you guys think I should do for decals when I paint the bike? I don't really like the one colour/no writing look, but obviously there's no "proper" way to do them. I kinda broke down the following options:
1. Just do Santa Cruz decals - I don't really like this. It's a bit too on the nose, but just a little off, ya know?
2. Do some chinese brand's decals - I don't mind "831" for the model, but all their names are kinda... eh?
3. Some random "cool" word as a brand
4. Just do the name of an already existing open mold importing brand
5. Decals from a brand that currently uses VPP but does not use the low-slung version (yet) - think DMR, Diamondback, maybe even Intense! lol.
I'm kind of leaning to number 5 (not intense though), It would be kinda silly while at the same time not too far-fetched to become reality. Who's to say Diamondback doesn't have the v3 of the release planned up as a lower link bike if you see this thing ride by at a trail network?
I'll probably leave it blank or put on some type vinyl car wrap with a pattern. But I've been thinking about putting a nickname of where I'm from. Santa Cruz isn't the only place in the world. That or one of my nicknames. Just not sure I feel like waiting to find a font and design I like...
-
Tomorrow the frame is scheduled to be at my door; hopefully no bad surprises. It took 27 days from China and 3 days once it arrived in Belgium.
-
Seat post question.
One of last items on my purchase list is a dropper post to go in my size small frame.
How many have installed 31.6 diameter post without any modifications?
insertion depth?
for those that had to go with 30.9, what did you use as a shim?
-
If you want to put a 30.9 seatpost, type " 30.9 31.6 shim" in the search box of Aliexpress and choose.
Here a premium version= https://shop.vecnum.com/gb/10-shims
-
Anyone given their rig a hard time on gnarly terrain and jumps? Any feedback concerning the frame rigidity and endurance?
-
Seat post question.
One of last items on my purchase list is a dropper post to go in my size small frame.
How many have installed 31.6 diameter post without any modifications?
insertion depth?
for those that had to go with 30.9, what did you use as a shim?
I had installed a 31.6 diameter 125mm PNW Loam dropper post into my small frame with no issues. I have it fully inserted into the frame (215 mm).
Anyone given their rig a hard time on gnarly terrain and jumps? Any feedback concerning the frame rigidity and endurance?
I was out on my bike yesterday sessioning 2-3 feet drops without any issues and tackling roots at speed. The bike has been sucking it up like a pro without any issues. I'm not a small guy either.... I would have issues with frame flex/tire rubbing on my old QR 26er doing the same.
-
The frame has arrived: no shipping damages and it looks really well made; the paint job is better than I expected. Together with it an headset, two rear hangers (one paid extra), the BB, and the rear axle. Moreover a rubber chainstay protector.
First notes:
- I confirm 22.8 and 30.0 for the rear shock mount; I've already installed my dt swiss unit and it is not exactly a 5 minuntes job: you need to undo the rear mechanism and play with washers in tiny space; the M8 0.1mm aliexpress shims helped to make a neat job.
- I bought a shimano BB, the OEM one looks ok, just is much heavier being in alluminium while shimano is mostly plastic; shimano bearings are sticky, OEM are loose and move easily, probably shimano is better; do I need to install the BB spacer oncrank side?
- no interference in seat post insertion, all free of imperfections.
-
Got mine today from Winow (I missed the group buy possibility through Eddy). Matte black finish with a few minor paint imperfections near the various aluminum inserts. The threading for the shock rear axle in the bottom link was a bit botched and the screw was hard to get in.
Also the holes for routing the lines in the rear triangle are not quite "finished" - they are more perpendicular than slanted and make the lines penetrate at awkward angles. I guess I need to do some filing.
By the way, how did you guys manage to route the lines through the rear triangle?
-
By the way, how did you guys manage to route the lines through the rear triangle?
Using an ebay knock off of the Park tool internal routing kit.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bike-Bicycle-Internal-Inner-Brake-Shift-Cable-Frame-Guide-Routing-Tool-Kit-Set-/133643298200?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
-
- I bought a shimano BB, the OEM one looks ok, just is much heavier being in alluminium while shimano is mostly plastic; shimano bearings are sticky, OEM are loose and move easily, probably shimano is better; do I need to install the BB spacer oncrank side?
I am using a Shimano press fit BB. According to Shimano instructions when used with 92mm wide frame (which is what the frame measures) no spacer is used. However, I do have a clearance issue with a M7100 SLX crank/chainring. The 2-piece chainring bolts on the back side of the SLX ring are up against the swing arm with fraction of a mm clearance. Using the BB spacer ring would help but I would rather not go that route. I am thinking about using an aftermarket chainring without bolts. That way it won’t affect chain line.
-
By the way, how did you guys manage to route the lines through the rear triangle?
I used dental floss and a vacuum cleaner.
-
I used dental floss and a vacuum cleaner.
I used nothing. They fed right thru with no issues.
-
I used nothing. They fed right thru with no issues.
In fact I tried that too, and it worked! Feeding back to front.
-
I am using a Shimano press fit BB. According to Shimano instructions when used with 92mm wide frame (which is what the frame measures) no spacer is used. However, I do have a clearance issue with a M7100 SLX crank/chainring. The 2-piece chainring bolts on the back side of the SLX ring are up against the swing arm with fraction of a mm clearance. Using the BB spacer ring would help but I would rather not go that route. I am thinking about using an aftermarket chainring without bolts. That way it won’t affect chain line.
We had a similar discussion earlier in the thread about chain line. If you do actually have the M7100 and not the M7120 boost specific crankset version you may have to get creative with your chainring configuration, if it is too late to return it.
-
Hello!!!
Paid for August 21 received today. My new build!
Digging the orange. Looking forward to this. To all that have contributed with the challenges they’ve had and the solutions they have found thank you very much it helped tremendously getting extra parts in place to make this build go so smooth.
Specs’
Fox fork 160
Fox shock
Deore 6100/6120 Groupset
All other parts will be Raceface Turbine/6C
Will post complete build when done.
-
I finally got around to modify Santa cruz sticker and fitting them on. My shock just came in today so 1 last shipment of parts and I'll be all good to go
-
Gentlemen,
Do we need any disc brake adapter for this frame? I believe it is rated for 180mm disc. As such, is the brake adapter required? Thank you for your confirmation advance.
For example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002284268224.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.21c12b80IzDeqZ&algo_pvid=5835006c-dce4-43c1-a71f-1dc7723c2d37&algo_exp_id=5835006c-dce4-43c1-a71f-1dc7723c2d37-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000019910969372%22%7D (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002284268224.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.21c12b80IzDeqZ&algo_pvid=5835006c-dce4-43c1-a71f-1dc7723c2d37&algo_exp_id=5835006c-dce4-43c1-a71f-1dc7723c2d37-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000019910969372%22%7D)
I'm intended to mount the Shimano M8120 brake to the frame.
Would anyone who completed the bike can share with me the image of your brake setup? Thank you for sharing the info with me.
Bsam.
-
Gentlemen,
Do we need any disc brake adapter for this frame? I believe it is rated for 180mm disc. As such, is the brake adapter required? Thank you for your confirmation advance.
For example: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002284268224.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.21c12b80IzDeqZ&algo_pvid=5835006c-dce4-43c1-a71f-1dc7723c2d37&algo_exp_id=5835006c-dce4-43c1-a71f-1dc7723c2d37-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000019910969372%22%7D (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005002284268224.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.21c12b80IzDeqZ&algo_pvid=5835006c-dce4-43c1-a71f-1dc7723c2d37&algo_exp_id=5835006c-dce4-43c1-a71f-1dc7723c2d37-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000019910969372%22%7D)
hi man if you gonna be using a 180 mm rotor for your rear brake then you wont have to get an adapter
I'm intended to mount the Shimano M8120 brake to the frame.
Would anyone who completed the bike can share with me the image of your brake setup? Thank you for sharing the info with me.
Bsam.
hi man if you are gonna use a 180 mm rotor for your rear brake then you wont not require an adapter.
if your question is if you need an adapter to run 4 pot brakes, you do not need an adapter. Both 4 pot brakes and 2 pot brakes share the same mounting.
that being said i have not assembled mine
-
I am in the same situation of slo, I bought a shimano XT 8100 crank instead of 8120, so maybe the chainline it's too inner; I found a 2,5 mm spacer for spindle, it's an option but it will probably make the QR asymmetric, even if for very small amount.
I will see later, now I'm fighting with BB; press fit really sucks, I regret I didn't order the BSA mod; I fitted the BB but something went wrong with inner tube alignment, so now I have to buy a pulling tool and remove it, and I hope I won't damage anything.
Fork update: manitou mezzer barely scratches the M size frame, so I bought the cane creek spacer: it works and it is compatible.
-
I am in the same situation of slo, I bought a shimano XT 8100 crank instead of 8120, so maybe the chainline it's too inner; I found a 2,5 mm spacer for spindle, it's an option but it will probably make the QR asymmetric, even if for very small amount.
I will see later, now I'm fighting with BB; press fit really sucks, I regret I didn't order the BSA mod; I fitted the BB but something went wrong with inner tube alignment, so now I have to buy a pulling tool and remove it, and I hope I won't damage anything.
Fork update: manitou mezzer barely scratches the M size frame, so I bought the cane creek spacer: it works and it is compatible.
I actually didnt know there's a bsa mod. How will that work? Seeing the frame is already at 92mm where bsa frames will be 73mm. I don't think you'll have enough space on ur spindle.
-
I actually didnt know there's a bsa mod. How will that work? Seeing the frame is already at 92mm where bsa frames will be 73mm. I don't think you'll have enough space on ur spindle.
There are a few hollowtech, and gxp, thread together bb86/92 options available. Wheels Mfg makes an expensive one and I believe there are various manufacturers on Amazon and Ali. Not sure if that is what he meant.
-
I actually didnt know there's a bsa mod. How will that work? Seeing the frame is already at 92mm where bsa frames will be 73mm. I don't think you'll have enough space on ur spindle.
There are adapters like this to press fit into the Bb shell and then you can screw in a BSA bb into that. But it makes the shell longer than 92mm so I'd think it be hard to find a spindle long enough .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/J-L-BB86-BB92-BSA-Bottom-Bracket-Conversion-Adapter-Convertor-/353153478768?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
I used the the bb the frame came with and just replaced the bearings. I really don't like the plastic shimano ones. It was easy to install with a homemade tool. Just did one side at a time .
-
I actually didnt know there's a bsa mod. How will that work? Seeing the frame is already at 92mm where bsa frames will be 73mm. I don't think you'll have enough space on ur spindle.
If I remember Haideli offered a BSA version for extra money; I regret I didn't buy it.
Moreover I start to like the Haideli BB more than the shimano one: shimano ID is 23.8 mm, you have to force to spindle in, while Haideli is 24.0 mm; shimano is more protected agaisnt water but also has more drag.
At this point I think I will install Haideli and later on move to threaded together BB.
-
There are adapters like this to press fit into the Bb shell and then you can screw in a BSA bb into that. But it makes the shell longer than 92mm so I'd think it be hard to find a spindle long enough .
https://www.ebay.com/itm/J-L-BB86-BB92-BSA-Bottom-Bracket-Conversion-Adapter-Convertor-/353153478768?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
I used the the bb the frame came with and just replaced the bearings. I really don't like the plastic shimano ones. It was easy to install with a homemade tool. Just did one side at a time .
So after you took them out you confirm that original bearings are cheap?To me they are too loose and they roll too easy being new. Do you rember the size, is it a standard SKF/other manufacturer size?
OEM BB has another problem: no lip to hammer it out, you can just hit the bearing, but if the bearing will come out it will be basically impossible to remove the cup from the frame I think.
-
So after you took them out you confirm that original bearings are cheap?To me they are too loose and they roll too easy being new. Do you rember the size, is it a standard SKF/other manufacturer size?
OEM BB has another problem: no lip to hammer it out, you can just hit the bearing, but if the bearing will come out it will be basically impossible to remove the cup from the frame I think.
They're actually not bad but since I had the bb out of the frame it was easier to work the bearings out. so I swapped them right away. They are standard 6806 bearings, I believe. I'm on a business trip but I can check when I get home.
-
I have had press fit BB but haven't had to mess with them, but it sure does seem tight. Though I guess it has to be. I don't see how it would be possible without a bearing press. I got a ZTTO thread together BB and it seemed slightly smaller diameter though I didn't measure, and has 2 o-rings on each side so a softer material helps tighten things up without being real tight. Since both sides thread together it acts like a press and stays held together so it doesn't need to be really tight.
At least from what I can tell messing with both, which makes me glad I got the threaded type.
I also got a 7120 crank which has to spacers and the instructions say for a PF92 BB to put one on each side. But this left the non drive arm with the axle only about half way in which didn't seem right not having the splines fully engage each other. So I removed the spacer on the drive side which made the non drive look correct so I'm not sure why it didn't need both unless the thread together BB is a bit wider than an actual PF BB? This placed the bolts on the chainring fairly close to the frame but a few mm clearance which seems about perfect for that crank. The teeth have a bit more clearance being 32 teeth and I would think I could go up 2 or 4 teeth without a problem.
I'm still deciding what I'm going to do for frame and paint protection but I got some materials today and will come up with something. I still need to double check my wheels dish and finish them up while bringing up to final tension. After that it should be done in a few hours. Though I do want to come up with a fender to protect the rear linkage and back of the shock. It's hard to see but some of the linkage bearings are very exposed.
Good luck and hopefully we start seeing some finished build pics and ride reports. I'm really tired so I apologize if this is wordy or hard to read. I type fast and not checking for mistakes right now...
-
I'm going to use a threaded/press-fit, ceramic bearing from Zitto. I haven't tried these before so I can only hope the quality is ok.
-
Stefan, I see same color and same progress as me more or less 8) .
BB issue: I think the threaded BB is the way to go, maybe I will install the stock BB with no inner spacer, just to be sure that I could remove it later; ZTTO BB looks good but aliexpress transit time is approx 15 days :-X : otherwise I see in german online shop token makes same threaded BB, just slightly more expensive.
Chainline issue: the difference between shimano XT 8100 and 8120 (or slx 7100 and 7120) is that the first have a chainline of 52 mm and a QR factor of 172 mm, the second has a 55 mm chainline and QR of 178 mm; the "20" series achieve this with a 6 mm longer spindle and adding a 3 mm spacer each side to keep simmetry; on this frame it looks like the 52 mm chainline barely clears the frame: possible solution is adding spacers to BB or to crank spindle in driver side; this will creat asymmetry in QR factor, but 1-2 mm I think won't be noticeable. As a general rule the more inner the chainline the better it is.
-
Stefan, I see same color and same progress as me more or less 8) .
BB issue: I think the threaded BB is the way to go, maybe I will install the stock BB with no inner spacer, just to be sure that I could remove it later; ZTTO BB looks good but aliexpress transit time is approx 15 days :-X : otherwise I see in german online shop token makes same threaded BB, just slightly more expensive.
Chainline issue: the difference between shimano XT 8100 and 8120 (or slx 7100 and 7120) is that the first have a chainline of 52 mm and a QR factor of 172 mm, the second has a 55 mm chainline and QR of 178 mm; the "20" series achieve this with a 6 mm longer spindle and adding a 3 mm spacer each side to keep simmetry; on this frame it looks like the 52 mm chainline barely clears the frame: possible solution is adding spacers to BB or to crank spindle in driver side; this will creat asymmetry in QR factor, but 1-2 mm I think won't be noticeable. As a general rule the more inner the chainline the better it is.
Included with the frame purchase is the BB and spacer which looks like a 3mm. Would that not help clearance for chainring? I'll be installing tonight and having a look at that...
-
ZTTO thread together bottom bracket and replacing their bearings with SKY/Enduro/something of known quality will get a solid option much cheaper than wheels mfg.
-
Included with the frame purchase is the BB and spacer which looks like a 3mm. Would that not help clearance for chainring? I'll be installing tonight and having a look at that...
The spacer in the BB is 2.5 mm and in theory should NOT be installed; to space out the chainring you can space the BB or space out the spindle of the crank; to me the second sound like a better option. Both of them will creat QR asimmetry.
-
Update: I installed the stock BB with no inner spacer, just to have more chances to remove it later; I plan to order thread in BB, ZTTO or token; if aliexpress is involved is going to take a while.
Chainline: I installed the 52 mm Xt crank, as said before the clearance with the lower frame is minimal, I measured it is 0.8 mm; I think it could stay like this, moving the crank out will harm the chainline: like this is aligned on the 4th gear from the smallest. I think 0.8 mm flex on the chainring will not happen.
Geometry: I put on fork and wheels to work on geometry: my handlebar hasn't much rise, maybe just 20-30 mm, but I feel like adding a lot of spacers under the handlebar, up to 5 cm: is it normal?
-
Chainline: I installed the 52 mm Xt crank, as said before the clearance with the lower frame is minimal, I measured it is 0.8 mm; I think it could stay like this, moving the crank out will harm the chainline: like this is aligned on the 4th gear from the smallest. I think 0.8 mm flex on the chainring will not happen.
That is pretty tight. 1mm spacer maybe just to give you a little more safety? You never know how things are going to flex and it probably isn't worth taking some chunks out of your frame.
Geometry: I put on fork and wheels to work on geometry: my handlebar hasn't much rise, maybe just 20-30 mm, but I feel like adding a lot of spacers under the handlebar, up to 5 cm: is it normal?
More important how it feels than looks. Are you talking about the 30mm of spacers and the stem in that picture (looks great) or adding up to 5cm worth of spacers under the stem? Most forks have a recommendation of 30-50mm max of spacers. Raising the bars from there would be high angle stems or, preferably, higher rise bars.
-
Yeahhh one mm spacer on the crank spindle is a good idea; I will look for it; In my opinion doesn't worth to use shimano 7120/8120 55 mm chainline: more clearance but worse chainline. The problem is from shimano chainring inner bolts as noted before, probably an aftermarket chainring will have much more clearance.
Under the stem I put 4 cm spacers in the photo and then even 5 cm and it feels ok; for sure with no spacers is too low and looking at the other builds photos everybody used at least some spacer under the stem. Sure it is very difficult to have an idea now with the suspension not properly tuned and with the bike static. Anyway better to cut the fork stem high and have more possibilities later.
-
I have already received the frame as well. I like it. Apart from small details that could be improved, the frame seems strong and well built. As it's unpainted, I will try to improve those details before finishing it. The bad news is that the Fox 36 (current year model) hits the frame despite being a size L. The air cap barely rubs, but the Grip 2's adjustment dial hits clearly. I think the 6mm spacer from Cane Creek will provide enough clearance. With how complex it is to make a frame like this, I can't believe how they can have such a basic design fault... :-\
-
I have already received the frame as well. I like it. Apart from small details that could be improved, the frame seems strong and well built. As it's unpainted, I will try to improve those details before finishing it. The bad news is that the Fox 36 (current year model) hits the frame despite being a size L. The air cap barely rubs, but the Grip 2's adjustment dial hits clearly. I think the 6mm spacer from Cane Creek will provide enough clearance. With how complex it is to make a frame like this, I can't believe how they can have such a basic design fault... :-\
Jal, the 3 mm cane creek spacer is enough.
-
Something to note about installing a ztto bb
1) it really tight in my frame could be paint over spray or something but i had to use a bb press to get the non drive side in first.
2) as the non drive side is in and if you use the bb tool that is included with the ztto bb to tighten the drive side bb in be prepared to be the quite long and have a frustrating time trying to aline the tool with the groves of the bb
3) i opted to use a bb cup tool so it was alittle easier but the paint work on the frame is quite thin and scratches off quite easily.
Tldr: if u want perfect paint work, stick with the regular pressfit bb. If u want an easier time with the ztto bb get urself a bb tool that cups over the whole bb.
-
Question: with cane creek 3 mm spacer do I still need the stock headset lower bearing base? i think the answer is yes, everything looks more stable
-
No, the cane creek is a crown race that is 3mm thicker. You do not need the one that comes with the headset.
With the included headset the Lyrik Ultimate was just about rubbing the frame size large downtube. I installed the Cane Creek +3mm crown race and now have over 3mm clearance.
-
You may be right, I'm going to try the + 3mm one, it might be enough. It's not necessary to add the crown race included, but I doubt if the bearing seats well or if a Cane Creek headset is needed (or recommended), with its specific inner angle bearing for correct mounting... what is your experience slo?
-
I checked out the included headset bearing and it looks like it is a 45/45, whereas the Cane Creek crown race is a 36 degree seat. The included headset bearing doesn't seat well. The lower bearing will need to be changed to a 36/45 52mm bearing to make it work correctly. Or you could run a Cane Creek headset.
-
I've got play in my headset that I can't seem to get rid of. I'm wondering if a traditional star nut would help instead of what came with the headset. I can't tell if the thing that came with it is pulling everything down tight or not.
-
I checked out the included headset bearing and it looks like it is a 45/45, whereas the Cane Creek crown race is a 36 degree seat. The included headset bearing doesn't seat well. The lower bearing will need to be changed to a 36/45 52mm bearing to make it work correctly. Or you could run a Cane Creek headset.
Thanks slo, is what it seemed looking at the photos of the spacer, that the angle was different. It's true... I didn't realize it!, being an integrated steering, don't need the complete headset, just the lower bearing
-
I've got play in my headset that I can't seem to get rid of. I'm wondering if a traditional star nut would help instead of what came with the headset. I can't tell if the thing that came with it is pulling everything down tight or not.
I assume you have the steerer tube cut enough to the proper length and doesn't bump into the ahead cap when tightening, right?
-
I checked out the included headset bearing and it looks like it is a 45/45, whereas the Cane Creek crown race is a 36 degree seat. The included headset bearing doesn't seat well. The lower bearing will need to be changed to a 36/45 52mm bearing to make it work correctly. Or you could run a Cane Creek headset.
Here comes the answer to my trouble: I installed the cane creek spacer and then the stock headset, it looked unstable; then I tried adding on top the stock spacer ring, better but still unstable; so I blamed the stock expander not pulling enough, today I will receive a star nut, but the reality as said above is that the angles don't match. So I will need a cane creek headset or a different bearing that probably isn't easy to find. Again time and money waste :'(.
This project isn't a breeze, when I built another bike I made everything in one day and half with no issues. Here every day comes a surprise :o.
-
Here comes the answer to my trouble: I installed the cane creek spacer and then the stock headset, it looked unstable; then I tried adding on top the stock spacer ring, better but still unstable; so I blamed the stock expander not pulling enough, today I will receive a star nut, but the reality as said above is that the angles don't match. So I will need a cane creek headset or a different bearing that probably isn't easy to find. Again time and money waste :'(.
This project isn't a breeze, when I built another bike I made everything in one day and half with no issues. Here every day comes a surprise :o.
You will probably need a cane creek bearing cause iirc cane creek doesn't use 45x45 bearings
And thats kinda the thing with buying a china bike its bag of surprises
-
Thanks, pity nobody noticed the problem before; we need the cane creek spacer AND THE BEARING.
This is my seconf china build, the previous (ok a XC front suspended) didn't show any surprise. Ok it's part of the game
Ok I need this correct?
https://www.probikeshop.it/cuscinetto-sterzo-cane-creek-forty-aa-5-36-45-52-mm-black-oxide-baaaaaa32/167933.html
-
You will probably need a cane creek bearing cause iirc cane creek doesn't use 45x45 bearings
And thats kinda the thing with buying a china bike its bag of surprises
Yeah, sorry about that guys. I always buy Cane Creek headsets for these builds and most of the supplied units are based on FSA and Cane Creek which use 36x45 on 90% of their headsets, I just assumed.
It doesn't have to be a Cane Creek bearing, any 36x45 52mm should do the job with that race replacement.
Have a tracking number created for my frame but it hasn't been received by the carrier, already over a week now. It will be easier to make recommendations without flying blind, hopefully in the next few weeks :(
-
posted this in my own build tread but didnt any responses. hopefully i can get some opinions here.
put the decal on one side of the bike but im a bit iffy on how it looks. im thinking of replacing it with this metallic vinyl. what do you guys think? new vinyl or keep what i have on there
-
I think that would look nice cut a little thicker and in a few more spots
-
It looks OK; certainly if your main problem are the decals it means everything else is fine; I am fighting with fork interference, headset bearings, chainline, bottom bracket. ;D ;D ;D
Did you test your handlebar height? only one spacer under the stem is fine for you? I feel like adding approx 4 cm
-
I want to keep the 52mm chainline using the SLX M7100 cranks (not M7120). I mounted a Funn Solo DS 32T chainring on the M7100 crank and now have about 3.5mm minimum clearance on the rear swing arm.
Difference between the Funn 32T ring and SLX ring, measured from inside edge of ring to tooth centerline:
Funn 32T 1.6mm
Shimano SLX 4.5mm (measured using bolt head)
it seems to be similar to the 3mm offset of the Shimano ring, without the bolt head clearance issue.
-
I think that would look nice cut a little thicker and in a few more spots
Thanks for your input! I had planned for one on the inside of the chain stay and on the top tube as well but I'll definitely try it with thicker letters first. I'm hoping that's why I thought it looked a bit off too
-
Did you test your handlebar height? only one spacer under the stem is fine for you? I feel like adding approx 4 cm
Look at this, guys :
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/lee-mccormacks-guide-to-perfect-bike-set-up.html
-
posted this in my own build tread but didnt any responses. hopefully i can get some opinions here.
put the decal on one side of the bike but im a bit iffy on how it looks. im thinking of replacing it with this metallic vinyl. what do you guys think? new vinyl or keep what i have on there
Liked the Decal. Perhaps one more short word or make the "Monsuta" a bit wider to cover the frame.
As per your installation of the chainstay protector - did you have to fight it, in order to get it in? It appeared I ordered a wrong one (Heckler 8C instead of the SC tallboy?) - really difficult for me to squeeze it in. :o
-
As per RAD parameter I am 7-8 cm over with 4 cm spacers; reducing the spacers will bring me to 3-4 cm over; I think the system doesn't work on this kind of frames that are really huge; anybody that built the bike probably noticed that is really big, and this is the secret to fly over obstacles; I'll stay with 4 cm spacers, eventually I will reduce later on.
I found a 36/45 lower headset bearing and I solved this problem, but installing a star nut too; the stock expander doesn't give the needed pull.
Next problem: the hose of my shimano xt brake barely passes through the holes in the frame, to pull it in/out is going to be fun :D
-
As per RAD parameter I am 7-8 cm over with 4 cm spacers; reducing the spacers will bring me to 3-4 cm over; I think the system doesn't work on this kind of frames that are really huge; anybody that built the bike probably noticed that is really big, and this is the secret to fly over obstacles; I'll stay with 4 cm spacers, eventually I will reduce later on.
I found a 36/45 lower headset bearing and I solved this problem, but installing a star nut too; the stock expander doesn't give the needed pull.
Next problem: the hose of my shimano xt brake barely passes through the holes in the frame, to pull it in/out is going to be fun :D
For the internal routing i got 1 of dem AE internal routing kit. Pulled from back to front quite easily. I didnt wanna test my patience on luck
-
As per RAD parameter I am 7-8 cm over with 4 cm spacers; reducing the spacers will bring me to 3-4 cm over; I think the system doesn't work on this kind of frames that are really huge; anybody that built the bike probably noticed that is really big, and this is the secret to fly over obstacles; I'll stay with 4 cm spacers, eventually I will reduce later on.
Check this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HyppZOpHocM
-
Next problem: the hose of my shimano xt brake barely passes through the holes in the frame, to pull it in/out is going to be fun :D
I had to widen the holes with a round file
-
Gents, a 'sticker foam' for the chain stay has been included in my frame, if anyone else has received, which direction did you apply it? :o
-
Thrill21 - a rubber/sticker chainstay protector is included with all except the first month or so of frames that shipped. Some people managed to order a protector from Santa Cruz but all models from there are on backorder.
-
Gents, a 'sticker foam' for the chain stay has been included in my frame, if anyone else has received, which direction did you apply it? :o
i dont know if im unlcuky to maybe its just the way i stuck it on my frame, mine didnt stick very well but the one i had ordered from AE which looks amost identical stuck so much better so take it as you will.
i ended up just ghetto-ing it and rapping tubes around my chainstay cause i have duck legs and always run my heels on the chainstay.
-
Update: I installed the stock BB with no inner spacer, just to have more chances to remove it later; I plan to order thread in BB, ZTTO or token; if aliexpress is involved is going to take a while.
Chainline: I installed the 52 mm Xt crank, as said before the clearance with the lower frame is minimal, I measured it is 0.8 mm; I think it could stay like this, moving the crank out will harm the chainline: like this is aligned on the 4th gear from the smallest. I think 0.8 mm flex on the chainring will not happen.
Geometry: I put on fork and wheels to work on geometry: my handlebar hasn't much rise, maybe just 20-30 mm, but I feel like adding a lot of spacers under the handlebar, up to 5 cm: is it normal?
How much higher do you need to raise your seat to pedal efficiently? I personally don't like the way a bunch of spacers under the stem looks, but I also don't feel like it needs to be that high. But better to cut the steerer long and use spacers until you can ride it and see what feels best. You can always move the spacers around to see what feels right and trim it later.
I'm waiting for a 40mm stem and have a 60mm on currently and will probably go with 1x 10mm spacer under and 1x over. As it is, the stack on this bike is 48mm more than my current bike which is quite a bit higher and about like adding 5cm of spacers to it so I'm a bit surprisedthis frame feels like that much is needed, but everyone is different. Also, the reach is about 40mm more than my current bike but the distance from saddle to bar is almost exactly the same on both and with the 40mm stem will be shorter and quite a bit higher so will be more upright and comfortable. But with this newer geometry, I'm expecting to have to play around with the cockpit to see what feels good and puts enough weight over the front to get good traction and works best.
I was worried about chainline since I ordered a 7120 crank with 55mm chainline. But that is also what Shimano considers a boost crankset and is recommended for use with boost rear hub spacing so it can't be too bad. Also, I went with a ZTTO thread together BB which must be wider than a normal PF92 BB because I was only able to use 1 spacer which I put on the non drive side. If a 7100 crank has an axle that is 6mm shorter, I'm not sure it will work with the ZTTO BB? Just something to consider for anyone thinking about that combo. With that setup there is about a 1mm gap between the chainring bolt and frame, and about 5mm between tips of 32T chainring and frame. Don't think I would want it any less, and it might not be ideal but I think that crank is the only way it would all work with the setup I went with.
Has anyone come up with a fender or some type of protection for the bottom linkage and back of the shock? It's all right in the path of the tire and I can't imagine it all holding up that well to very many days of mud or rain...
-
Has anyone come up with a fender or some type of protection for the bottom linkage and back of the shock? It's all right in the path of the tire and I can't imagine it all holding up that well to very many days of mud or rain...
The original SC solution doesn't look that efficient either...
-
.
I'm waiting for a 40mm stem and have a 60mm on currently and will probably go with 1x 10mm spacer under and 1x over. As it is, the stack on this bike is 48mm more than my current bike which is quite a bit higher and about like adding 5cm of spacers to it so I'm a bit surprisedthis frame feels like that much is needed, but everyone is different. Also, the reach is about 40mm more than my current bike but the distance from saddle to bar is almost exactly the same on both and with the 40mm stem will be shorter and quite a bit higher so will be more upright and comfortable. But with this newer geometry, I'm expecting to have to play around with the cockpit to see what feels good and puts enough weight over the front to get good traction and works best.
Has anyone come up with a fender or some type of protection for the bottom linkage and back of the shock? It's all right in the path of the tire and I can't imagine it all holding up that well to very many days of mud or rain...
About setting up the cockpit is good to share some points of view here; I also feels strange adding (at the end 4 cm below 1 cm above the stem) a lot of spacers, but I tested the bike just on a flat surface without even pedals; when I will do a test drive I will decide if it's the case to lower the bar or not. I think it is a good idea to cut the stem high and keep many possibilities for later. Any other comments from people that are riding the complete bike are welcome.
For the chainline I will keep the 52 mm shimano XT and either add a 1 mm shim or most probably like someone have already done here change the chainring with an aftermarket one that has no inner bolts and then a better clearance.
I was also thinking about the "problem" of the rear mechanism fender...any ideas are welcome (3d printing?) or maybe just a wrap of rubber or similar.
-
Hey guys.
Did someone already try to put in a cascade link?
cascade link: https://cascadecomponents.eu/collections/santa-cruz-linkages/products/hightower-v2-lt-link
Got a frame on the way and thought it would be cool to do.
Thanks!
-
Hey guys.
Did someone already try to put in a cascade link?
cascade link: https://cascadecomponents.eu/collections/santa-cruz-linkages/products/hightower-v2-lt-link
Got a frame on the way and thought it would be cool to do.
Thanks!
Someone already tried to fit a standard santa cruz ht link and it wont fit cause the shock hole is too small to accept the link cause the original one uses a 30mm bearing eyelet .
So no. No one has tired it cause it won't work
-
The original SC solution doesn't look that efficient either...
Someone made a 3d print that was wider and longer but is only really practical when screwed in. I'm not brave enough to rivnut the seat tube, or anywhere on these frames really, to get a little sample fender. I bodged up a version without the screw holes that could be attached with double sided tape but it is heavy. The original - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4853311
Other than looking like a SC this frame has nearly nothing in common with any model. That said though I do think the muckshield made for the Tallboy/Hightower/Megatower would fit and be pretty neat. The M5 version isn't available yet but I think a crafty person can work out how to make something similar.
https://www.phizcycling.com/the-muckshield
-
Someone made a 3d print that was wider and longer but is only really practical when screwed in. I'm not brave enough to rivnut the seat tube, or anywhere on these frames really, to get a little sample fender. I bodged up a version without the screw holes that could be attached with double sided tape but it is heavy. The original - https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4853311
Other than looking like a SC this frame has nearly nothing in common with any model. That said though I do think the muckshield made for the Tallboy/Hightower/Megatower would fit and be pretty neat. The M5 version isn't available yet but I think a crafty person can work out how to make something similar.
https://www.phizcycling.com/the-muckshield
why not just remove the side ridges so u can fit a zip tie thru the holes then zip tie it to the seat tube . then maybe extend it alittle longer if its too high up
-
why not just remove the side ridges so u can fit a zip tie thru the holes then zip tie it to the seat tube . then maybe extend it alittle longer if its too high up
I thought about that but I don't like the zip tie look just out of pure vanity :) I guess I could make it a little taller and do a velcro strap.
-
I thought about that but I don't like the zip tie look just out of pure vanity :) I guess I could make it a little taller and do a velcro strap.
Im a true function over form kinda guy. Can consider using magnets just stick one on ur frame with some 3m tape and 1 on the guard should be strong enough
-
Im a true function over form kinda guy. Can consider using magnets just stick one on ur frame with some 3m tape and 1 on the guard should be strong enough
That is a great idea, I'll give that a try.
-
Well,
Fortunately/Unfortunately I will not be building the frame. I have accepted a job in the bike industry with bike rebate so I'm selling my frames and the components I bought with it.
I made a post in the classfied to not spam here. It's a small if you're interessed
-
Well,
Fortunately/Unfortunately I will not be building the frame. I have accepted a job in the bike industry with bike rebate so I'm selling my frames and the components I bought with it.
I made a post in the classfied to not spam here. It's a small if you're interessed
Congratulations man thats fantastic
-
Well,
Fortunately/Unfortunately I will not be building the frame. I have accepted a job in the bike industry with bike rebate so I'm selling my frames and the components I bought with it.
I made a post in the classfied to not spam here. It's a small if you're interessed
I've had access to staff purchase programs for many years now from a handful of brands, Chiners are still a fun side hobby for me though. I'd recommend making sure you have the next bike secure before you get rid of your frame!
-
I was also thinking about the "problem" of the rear mechanism fender...any ideas are welcome (3d printing?) or maybe just a wrap of rubber or similar.
Here is a "wrap of rubber" solution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH1h7Dy4JiQ
-
Good ideas from mud guard brainstorming: to me the inner tube wrap ghetto style is the cheapest and the most effective; also good the idea to use a velcro to put something in place. Unless (but i doubt) they do something specific for this frame.
I am spending one week by the sea on holiday, I will resume my bike assembly next week 8)
-
I will build two bikes this autumn/vinter. The AM831 in size L and the LCFS713 in size M.
-
I will build two bikes this autumn/vinter. The AM831 in size L and the LCFS713 in size M.
Stefan, as you have both frames side to side which one has the best contruction quality? What is your opinion?
-
I have the highest trust in Light Carbon (I have built 5 LC bikes) and the LC frame gives me a little more confidence. But I look forward to build the AM831. I can tell you more after I have built the bike.
-
No tracking updates, it just showed up today. Build thread starting soon!
-
cybrsrce - good looking frame. Is it the light or is it a darker gray? I expected a dark grey and ended up receiving a light gray.
-
Any builds with a 170mm travel fork yet?
-
cybrsrce - good looking frame. Is it the light or is it a darker gray? I expected a dark grey and ended up receiving a light gray.
I picked pantone 11c and it is a little lighter than I expected but I'm happy with it.
-
Any builds with a 170mm travel fork yet?
Ill be building with a reverse -0.5° crown spacer and a 160 fork . basically same a 170 fork if i didn't use the spacer.
I think fitting a 170 fork and a crown spacer will be a little too much dont wanna push the head tube too much
-
pretty much done with the build. waiting on a different brake mount adapters and some fork decals
(https://i.imgur.com/STmyFvj.jpg)
-
Looking real nice. Liked the bigger letters.
pretty much done with the build. waiting on a different brake mount adapters and some fork decals
-
I am looking at a 42mm offset fork and 3mm crown race spacer. I think the lower offset should balance out the spacer and 170mm up front might be viable.
-
I am looking at a 42mm offset fork and 3mm crown race spacer. I think the lower offset should balance out the spacer and 170mm up front might be viable.
Decreasing the offset, on the contrary, rises the front, so slackens the bike!
https://madscientistmtb.com/bike-geometry-calculator/
If you want to compensate a longer fork length, you would want to increase the offset.
-
Any builds with a 170mm travel fork yet?
Why would anyone want to do that here? This is an all mountain frame, not an enduro. I'm mounting a 150 mm travel fork, like on the original hightower specs.
-
pretty much done with the build. waiting on a different brake mount adapters and some fork decals
(https://i.imgur.com/STmyFvj.jpg)
Snacks, build looks great - where did you get he chain stay protector?
-
Why would anyone want to do that here? This is an all mountain frame, not an enduro. I'm mounting a 150 mm travel fork, like on the original hightower specs.
We don't have a suggested A2C measurement for this frame (not that I found anyway) but the specs say this is a 150mm travel and suggest a 160mm fork. Have to remember that looks a bit like a HT but has nothing else in common with it. Based on current generation Rockshox and Fox forks, 150mm sit around 570mm and then 170m are around 590mm. I think 150-170 is reasonable for this frame depending on where you ride.
I went to a 160mm 38mm stanchion fork because I ride trails that are actually used for regional enduro races but I still have a lot of technical climbing to do so I don't want to ride wheelies up hill all the time. If you don't care much about climbing performance nothing wrong going long :)
-
Have to remember that looks a bit like a HT but has nothing else in common with it.
Except for the part where the geo charts are basically identical. The only differences come down to the difference in styling on the seat tube and shape of the headtube and down tube. All meaningful measurements are the same. Sure, it's not an exact clone like you'll see for other frames/brands but this is very much a reverse engineered/inspired HT.
-
Kydex custom downtube protector. It still needs a little adjustment. For reference this is from a 4"x12" piece of thermoform plastic.
-
Snacks, build looks great - where did you get he chain stay protector?
thanks! its from Santa Cruz for the tallboy 4 and joplin 3. i have another post in this thread with pics of how it fits. its on there very snug and covers the chainstay but im still betting a HT specific one might fit just that much better
-
Kydex custom downtube protector. It still needs a little adjustment. For reference this is from a 4"x12" piece of thermoform plastic.
that looks great. definitely next on my list!
-
Except for the part where the geo charts are basically identical. The only differences come down to the difference in styling on the seat tube and shape of the headtube and down tube. All meaningful measurements are the same. Sure, it's not an exact clone like you'll see for other frames/brands but this is very much a reverse engineered/inspired HT.
The only thing in common is the vpp and chainstay length. Everything else I measured is +/- 10mm. It is clearly inspired by current SC models, kinda falls in between the HT and MT, but is definitely not as close as you would think only going by the geo chart.
-
The only thing in common is the vpp and chainstay length. Everything else I measured is +/- 10mm. It is clearly inspired by current SC models, kinda falls in between the HT and MT, but is definitely not as close as you would think only going by the geo chart.
Are you saying your measured distances are different than the geo chart? Because the charts were the same unless they got updated?
-
Are you saying your measured distances are different than the geo chart? Because the charts were the same unless they got updated?
Yes, wouldn't be the first frame I had where the numbers didn't match the geo chart. So far the differences I get are:
Chainstay: 440 (433)
Top Tube: 632 (618)
Reach: 488 (473)
My measurement (stock measurement)
I also realize those number are closer to the L frame but the HT and ST measurements are right on the mm from the M chart. If either of those were longer I would just accept that I got the wrong size :)
I will redo the chainstay length when I get the shock in as It is out a little further with the spacer even though I subtracted the gap space. It could just be me, it would be great if other people would measure out some of those to either validate or tell me that I'm doing it wrong...
When it has wheels on I will measure BB drop, BB height, stack, and angles. If I'm not wrong, this isn't necessarily bad just different than what I expected.
-
Since people are having problems with epoxy in the way of the seatpost I ordered a 30.9 dropper and a 30.9 to 31.6 shim and didn't have any issues. I also got a 180mm and it fits me well on a large with it sticking out about 15mm. I'm waiting on a few parts but it's basically built so I'll have to get some pics. Just picking it up, it's lighter than I thought it would be. Will have to get it on a scale.
Edit: I'll measure some more but I get just a hair less than 17 1/8" which is about 434mm. I only have rulers with mm on it and none that long but will try to find something with smaller increments as converting shouldn't matter.
Edit 2: I also had issues with my caliper bolts going in the frame so got a M6x1 tap to chase the threads and it ran into resistance and removed some material but the bolts thread in nicely now. Maybe they were using a worn tap? The threads also don't go very deep and not sure if bolts might run out of threads? Once myadapters to 203mm get here it should be fine. I probably should start my own build thread with the things I've done and ran into. Hasn't been real bad but also hasn't been perfect and taken a little jury rigging to go together.
-
Since people are having problems with epoxy in the way of the seatpost I ordered a 30.9 dropper and a 30.9 to 31.6 shim and didn't have any issues. I also got a 180mm and it fits me well on a large with it sticking out about 15mm. I'm waiting on a few parts but it's basically built so I'll have to get some pics. Just picking it up, it's lighter than I thought it would be. Will have to get it on a scale.
I was trying to jam a 27.2 post in with some rough sandpaper to get it but it also gets stuck. There is a big chunk of material in the seat tube on the nondrive side just a little too deep to maneuver my files in and make a difference. All good, I ordered an adjustable reamer bit to knock it out and then expand an old bike seat tube from 30.4 to 30.9.
Thanks for the tap tip :)
-
I was trying to jam a 27.2 post in with some rough sandpaper to get it but it also gets stuck. There is a big chunk of material in the seat tube on the nondrive side just a little too deep to maneuver my files in and make a difference. All good, I ordered an adjustable reamer bit to knock it out and then expand an old bike seat tube from 30.4 to 30.9.
Thanks for the tap tip :)
If I was dealing with that problem I would probably try a sandpaper flapper wheel like this:
(https://www.rikenmt.com/uploads/image/20190722/11/flap-wheels.jpg)
And use an extention something like this:
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61WSIFqQgfL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
And if I couldn't find it local and had to order, I would try getting a dowel or socket extension and take a strip of sandpaper with some rubber cement (or the big bottle of tube patch cement in my toolbox) and glue it to the end with a piece of tape on the shaft to mark the correct depth so I work on the right spot. Then chuck it in a cordless drill or a Dremel and give it a shot. I've used this method in the past on similar things with good results. I don't know how deep it is but if holding it on the bump was difficult and I was worried about where I was sanding, I might try taking something like a 2 liter bottle and cut the top and bottom off right before it begins to curve so it's flat, cut a hole in it about the size of the bump to frame it, roll it up and then slide it down to protect the surrounding area and use a couple pieces of tape at the top folded over onto the frame to hold it in place. Even the cardboard from a case of beer would protect it for quite a while (and is on the stronger end of cardboard since people aren't happy when bottles fall out the bottom). That's what I would try if anyone is having a hard time dealing with it...
-
Here's my rig, just finished. Weighs 12.2 kg, including pedals and sealant!
210 mm dropper post (no issues with the insertion in the seat tube).
Can't ride it yet because of my broken wrist :(
-
Here's my rig, just finished. Weighs 12.2 kg, including pedals and sealant!
210 mm dropper post (no issues with the insertion in the seat tube).
Can't ride it yet because of my broken wrist :(
looking really really good ! which size do you have ? i wish you all the best for your broken wrist :)
-
looking really really good ! which size do you have ?
Chinese size M, which is SC size L, for 1m81.
-
Chinese size M, which is SC size L, for 1m81.
the bike is looking really good proportion wise :) does the pike fits without the crown race spacer ?
-
the bike is looking really good proportion wise :) does the pike fits without the crown race spacer ?
Yep, 2 mm clear of the downtube.
-
Get well soon, JJJ!
12.2 kg sounds pretty light for a bike of that much travel, do you have a parts list?
-
12.2 kg sounds pretty light for a bike of that much travel, do you have a parts list?
Essentially:
Fork: RS Pike 150mm
Shock: Fox DPS EVOL (no piggy-back = almost 200 g lighter), enough for me
Cranks: E13 TRS Race Carbon (the XCX Race Mountain are even lighter, but said to be flexy)
Wheelset: homemade from Chinese carbon rims (30mm inner width) and DT 240EXP clones (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3428.0.html), Sapim D-Light spokes = 1385 g
Cassette: E13 Helix-R
Rear derailleur: XTR
Pedals: composite
Saddle: Chinese carbon (so damn light and cheap, and perform well)
-
So I took the bike for a test ride today and something is really up with this paint job or the frame rubbing. I rode it in my neighborhood on paved street for about 500 feet to test shifting and this is what happened. I can't imagine tiny pebbles flying up off the road would cause something like this on any other bike. I mean I ride my gravel and road bike through here almost everyday and their paint is still fine.
-
That spot on the left definitely looks like rubbing. I'm assuming the rear triangle is hitting it but the missing paint on the right there has nothing to rub against
-
Looks like rubbing but I can't understand what can rub there...the foot? The rear shock?
-
Snacks - please post a picture from further away.
-
Gentlemen,
Anyone completed the build with the crown spacer to prevent the front fork from hitting the downtube? I'm quite confused on what we should use; +0.5° crown spacer? My fork hit the downtube (Frame Size S). The rated head tube angle is 65.5° - This would make 65° with the crown spacer? I assumed the headset uses 45 degree bearing race.
https://reverse-components-usa.com/products/reverse-angle-spacer (https://reverse-components-usa.com/products/reverse-angle-spacer)
Thank you for your input & sharing with us.
-
Snacks - please post a picture from further away.
Here's a couple. You can see from where the pedal is it couldn't have been my foot unless I had it at a very awkward angle. I can assure you I did not ;D
-
Are the linkage bolts torqued up enough? If those bolts aren't loose, did the rear triangle feel all squirrelly? Looks like it would have to move in a lot to make contact there.
-
Frame showed up Saturday way ahead of schedule. Under 3 weeks to NJ!
finalizing paint decisions and will get to work shortly.
-
Are the linkage bolts torqued up enough? If those bolts aren't loose, did the rear triangle feel all squirrelly? Looks like it would have to move in a lot to make contact there.
The bolts aren't loose. Riding it down the street and back it felt fine. Not squirlly at all. Now im just even more confused. I'm not sure what else could have caused this
-
Outer edge on the triangle looks like a strike from something - it is more of a chip. The spot on inner edge of triangle and on the frame look like rubbing. Even if something was loose when installing I don't think the parts would have rubbed enough to damage paint.
-
Things are slowly progressing. Tested the dropper än it fits perfect, no problems there.
-
Things are slowly progressing. Tested the dropper än it fits perfect, no problems there.
Would you mind to share with us what you used for the chainstay protector? looks like a sticky back type. Thanks.
-
I tried to put in my PNW Loam dropper last night, and it got stuck with about an inch and a half or so left until the max insertion point. I had to break out the file. It took a while but I finally got it in there. Luckily I had a long file I bought to file the steerer tube after cutting it.
-
It was a little stressful because the file was just long enough to where the handle had to go in the seat tube just a bit. So where I think I needed to file, I kept catching the handle on the top of the tube. Add to that the fact you're just hoping your filing the right spot way down in there. It wasn't fun, but I finally got it.
-
Would you mind to share with us what you used for the chainstay protector? looks like a sticky back type. Thanks.
The chainstay protector is for a Nukeproof Mega 29.
-
Gentlemen,
Anyone completed the build with the crown spacer to prevent the front fork from hitting the downtube? I'm quite confused on what we should use; +0.5° crown spacer? My fork hit the downtube (Frame Size S). The rated head tube angle is 65.5° - This would make 65° with the crown spacer? I assumed the headset uses 45 degree bearing race.
https://reverse-components-usa.com/products/reverse-angle-spacer (https://reverse-components-usa.com/products/reverse-angle-spacer)
Most of the forks hit the downtube; a 3 mm can creek with zero change in head angle does the job; remember to change the bearing too to one with 36/45 degrees
-
Most of the forks hit the downtube; a 3 mm can creek with zero change in head angle does the job; remember to change the bearing too to one with 36/45 degrees
I was going to put my reverse angle spacer on mine. I actually put it on my Durolux but when I installed it, I couldn't get rid of the play in the headset. Then I figured out that I messed up and didn't replace the crown race, but rather put the reverse right on top of the crown race. This is my first build so I'm learning and there are errors.
So I popped off the reverse and removed the crown race. When I tried to put the reverse back on it didn't want to go back on. It was frustrating and I just decided to do without. My Durolux clears the downtube on my large frame, so I don't have to worry about that.
I still have a little bit of play in the headset without using it. I'm thinking of trying a star nut because I'm just not getting along with what came with the headset. I'm hoping the star nut will solve that.
-
Has anyone that's gone with Shimano 12 speed been able to get the derailleur set up right? It seems like when the B screw adjustment is correct the derailleur isn't at the right angle. I'm still playing with it but shifting isn't very good so far.
I'm also going to try to find Shimanos specs on derailleur placement in relation to the axle. I'm new to 12 speed but was a bike mechanic for quite a few years and something seems "off".
-
Has anyone that's gone with Shimano 12 speed been able to get the derailleur set up right? It seems like when the B screw adjustment is correct the derailleur isn't at the right angle. I'm still playing with it but shifting isn't very good so far.
I'm also going to try to find Shimanos specs on derailleur placement in relation to the axle. I'm new to 12 speed but was a bike mechanic for quite a few years and something seems "off".
Yea I'm using shimano 12 speed and its shifting real nice. I used the guide on the back of the derailleur to set up the b screw. My buddy had a bit more trouble but he followed directions on a website that suggested to use a setting that's inbetween what shimano 12speed and sram 12 speed recommends and his has been shifting great ever since.
-
I tried the line on the back of the derailleur as well and it doesn't matter if the line is above, below, or right at the teeth tips, the line isn't perpendicular and one side angles away, like the angle is wrong. I cut the chain at front and biggest rear plus 5 and a quick link. Something seems off and not finding what and the shifting isn't great and isn't spinning very smooth.
I've gone over Shimanos installation documents a bunch and keep double checking and expecting to find something off but it hasn't happened yet...
-
I tried the line on the back of the derailleur as well and it doesn't matter if the line is above, below, or right at the teeth tips, the line isn't perpendicular and one side angles away, like the angle is wrong. I cut the chain at front and biggest rear plus 5 and a quick link. Something seems off and not finding what and the shifting isn't great and isn't spinning very smooth.
I've gone over Shimanos installation documents a bunch and keep double checking and expecting to find something off but it hasn't happened yet...
This is how mine lines up now. It was a bit off when the chain was short but sound like you sized yours correctly. My only other thoughts are limit screw not allowing the derailleur to line up with the big cog or maybe hanger is bent?
-
Has anyone that's gone with Shimano 12 speed been able to get the derailleur set up right? It seems like when the B screw adjustment is correct the derailleur isn't at the right angle. I'm still playing with it but shifting isn't very good so far.
I'm also going to try to find Shimanos specs on derailleur placement in relation to the axle. I'm new to 12 speed but was a bike mechanic for quite a few years and something seems "off".
I successfully installed an XTR with an E13 Helix-R cassette, and Hyperglide chain. What model derailleur and cassette are you using? Make sure you place the guide between the screw and the hanger. Post a picture.
-
I'm using an SLX 10-51 cassette, SLX m7100 derailleur and chain, SLX crank and 32t ring, and an XT Shifter.
I got a spare hanger so it's pretty easy to measure, and found the Sram frame fit specs and the hanger definitely isn't within current specs for the rear derailleur. I didn't find one for Shimano but I imagine it's about the same. There is also a push for a universal hanger which falls on one end of Sram's specs: www.UniversalDerailleurHanger.com
The hanger that came with the frame puts the derailleur 2mm higher and about 5mm further back. Not a lot, but well out of the range specified. Since a couple mm of the B screw adjustment can make a big difference I would think it can have a fairly big impact.
Here is a link to the Sram specs and I'll post a picture. Everything else I've found shows the line much more perpendicular with the tips and haven't found a pic of one that isn't except the one above which looks like it might be a little better than mine. I also added 2 links, an inner and outer, to the chain and the derailleur looked a lot better when setting B screw, but too much slack in the 10 cog so I removed it.
https://www.sram.com/globalassets/document-hierarchy/frame-fit-specifications/mtb/2021-mtb-frame-fit-specifications.pdf
(https://www.mtbr.com/threads/setting-up-shimano-12-spd-for-1st-time-b-adjustment.1195324/#lg=attachment1952245)
-
The hanger that came with the frame puts the derailleur 2mm higher and about 5mm further back. Not a lot, but well out of the range specified. Since a couple mm of the B screw adjustment can make a big difference I would think it can have a fairly big impact.
Looks like your hanger is wrong, indeed. I'd say loosen the B-screw so that the guide line falls at the valleys of the teeth instead of the tips. Post a pic of the hanger.
-
Well I actually got 2 extra and all 3 are the same and looks like the CAD drawing on the geo charts. I'm betting it's the same hanger everyone else has. It's pretty easy to take a ruler and eyeball the dimensions given in that Sram document, and tell if it's out of spec. Micrometer will get you closer to the exact numbers. If you measure the diameter of a hole and then measure to the far side of the hole and subtract half the diameter, it's a lot easier than trying to measure to the center. If anyone is so inclined...
I'll get a picture tomorrow. I also tried raising the line close to the teeth valleys all the way to about the same distance under and the line never straightens out perpendicular. I should be getting some parts tomorrow so planned on some stand time and try a wide range of adjustments to see if anything gets things to smooth out some.
But at this point I would say going with a 1x11 setup would be a safer bet than 12 speed. Not sure what I will do if I can't get things quite a bit better than they currently are but I'm not tracking down and buying a different drivetrain in the hopes it will work better with this hanger.
Hope others are having better luck and have good, silent, crisp shifting. Though I can't imagine it's as good as it could be if we all have the same hanger.
Someone asked and I forgot to mention, but the hanger is straight as that's the first thing I check when installing a drivetrain, even when brand new.
-
FlaMtnBkr, I have X = 15 and L = 28, which is 5 mm further back and 2 mm shorter than the specs, the same as you. Yet my XTR works fine, even when backpedaling, and the teeth are perpendicular to the guide line (with the guide line in the valleys, as per recommended by E13 with the Helix-R cassette, that has 50 teeth).
-
are you both measuring the "L" as 90 degrees to the line between centre rear axle and centre bb or 90 to a horizontal line through the rear axle? The SRAM doc says axle to bb.
-
are you both measuring the "L" as 90 degrees to the line between centre rear axle and centre bb or 90 to a horizontal line through the rear axle? The SRAM doc says axle to bb.
-
Axle to BB, though the angle doesn't change "L", just "X"
I will try to go thru a wide range of adjustments and see if I can find a combo that smooths things out. Hopefully will get to it before my daughter's softball game this afternoon. I'm glad others are getting along with it!
-
@FlaMtnBkr, your photo looks like my similar setup with a Shimano XT 12-speed derailleur and Deore 11-speed 11-51t cassette... when I had a chain that was 2 links shorter than recommended.
-
When I was first messing with it, a longer chain looked like the only way to get the line at teeth tips and perpendicular, so I cut an inner link and used a second quick link to add 2 links and the line looked the way it's supposed to. However, in the 10 T cog the chain was obviously too long so I removed it.
Thanks for the suggestion! But I think it's going to be a compromise and getting things as good as possible, at least with 12 speed. I think 11 or 10 speed will work better, though it's probably possible to get shifting good with 12, just not as good as it could be. At least with the setup I have...
-
Axle to BB, though the angle doesn't change "L", just "X"
Good point. That's the problem with late night posts.
Hope you sort it out.
-
When I was first messing with it, a longer chain looked like the only way to get the line at teeth tips and perpendicular, so I cut an inner link and used a second quick link to add 2 links and the line looked the way it's supposed to. However, in the 10 T cog the chain was obviously too long so I removed it.
I've installed an e13 Helix-R cassette, with a 9-tooth cog, and there is no chain slack on that cog with the prescribed number of links. Sounds like your cage length is too short! Is your derailleur the 7100-SGS or 7120-SGS model? The 7120 is for a 2x12 drivetrain and goes only up to a 45T cog.
-
Gentlemen,
Anyone completed the build with the crown spacer to prevent the front fork from hitting the downtube? I'm quite confused on what we should use; +0.5° crown spacer? My fork hit the downtube (Frame Size S). The rated head tube angle is 65.5° - This would make 65° with the crown spacer? I assumed the headset uses 45 degree bearing race.
https://reverse-components-usa.com/products/reverse-angle-spacer (https://reverse-components-usa.com/products/reverse-angle-spacer)
Thank you for your input & sharing with us.
I used the one that someone suggested and put a link in, further back to one of the first builds and, yes it does change angle, but I've been riding a stumpy eco prior to this so it doesn't bother me. I'd rather that then frame damage
-
Bike finished; lighter than expected at 12.3 Kg, where the tyres alone are 2 Kg! I will make a build thread later on if I will have time, for now main components list:
Fork manitou mezzer, rear shock DT swiss 531, rims carbonality carbon asymmetric with dt swiss hubs, tyres maxis DHF ant + rekon post, saddle,post,pedals aliexpress, handlebar OG evkin, groupset and brakes shimano XT.
Test drive: I climbed steep asphalt road (average 18%) and the position is ok, no front wheel lifting despite the 4 cm spacers under stem, also I appreciated the lock on rear shock and the mezzer with all dials at maximun is stable too; the bike isn't very fast on flat road, it's hard to mantain 30 km/h, probably due to the draggy tyres, but uphill doesn't feel worse than my 9 Kg XC bike; downhill as expected is a all trails eater, very fast on flow sections, I really enjoyed the ride; of course it needs more suspension tuning.
-
Bike finished; lighter than expected at 12.3 Kg, where the tyres alone are 2 Kg! I will make a build thread later on if I will have time, for now main components list:
Fork manitou mezzer, rear shock DT swiss 531, rims carbonality carbon asymmetric with dt swiss hubs, tyres maxis DHF ant + rekon post, saddle,post,pedals aliexpress, handlebar OG evkin, groupset and brakes shimano XT.
Does that weight include the pedals? What are your exact wheelset specs?
-
Looks awesome. Nicely done. I'm almost done with my orange build.
I've run into one issue. I was trying to route a cable through the seat stay for the rear brake line. The plan was to route a shifter cable and then use it to guide the hose over it, then pull the cable out. I thought this may be asked than just doing the hose by itself. But I was having trouble even getting the cable through. I got it through the front triangle fine but couldn't get it to come out the seat stay. The magnet I was using wasn't very strong, but it's all I had. I came up with the dumb idea of feeding another cable from the seat stay exit. So I had two cables coming from opposite directions, both meeting at the exits by the rear shock. The plan was to tape the cables together and then pull them both out the seat stay, then unhook them so I'd have one continuous cable through the frame to guide the brake line. I actually did this when routing the cable to the derailleur and it worked out great.
Well, I must have used too much tape or something when connecting the cables, or the exit hole in the seat stay is at a weird angle, because I could not get it to exit. I just could not get it out. I tried guiding it with a paper clip. I got a bit not the tape out and pulled it with pliers thinking that was it, but the tape just broke away in pieces. So, it was right there, and I figured I just had to pull harder. I pulled so hard the paint and a little of the hood by the seat stay exit hole snapped. Then I tried filing the hole a little bigger. No dice. Tried to go back out the other way, and it wouldn't come out that way either. I pulled so hard eventually the cable frayed and snapped. So I didn't want to damage the frame and eventually gave up. I clipped it off as short as I could.
So now I guess I'm going to go with an externally routed rear cable. That doesn't really bother me. Externally routed cables bother some people, but I've had several frames with them, and I don't even notice them looks-wise. I guess I could get a stronger magnet and try again. Maybe the cable will pass by the cut wording there. Maybe not. I just hope it doesn't rattle when I'm riding or I'll be looking for something to stuff in there to quiet it down.
-
I've installed an e13 Helix-R cassette, with a 9-tooth cog, and there is no chain slack on that cog with the prescribed number of links. Sounds like your cage length is too short! Is your derailleur the 7100-SGS or 7120-SGS model? The 7120 is for a 2x12 drivetrain and goes only up to a 45T cog.
I made the chain 2 links longer than Shimano states so it being long in the smallest gear makes perfect sense [edit- this sounds a bit rude reading it again. If so, that wasn't my intention!]. I was just pointing out to the other person that said his derailleur looked like mine when his chain was too short, that I tried a longer chain (though too long) and it did correct the derailleur but wasn't a feasible option. I do have a m7100 derailleur with 51T cassette.
At this point I've determined it's impossible to get the derailleur adjusted with the line at teeth tips and perpendicular like every adjustment instructions I've found shows, due to derailleur placement with the out of spec hanger (which someone else has verified as out of spec) and setting the shifting up as best as possible. So far I've gotten it OK, but not great and not what I was expecting and a bit disappointing.
-
Weight with pedals. The wheelset is 1530 g in total, dt swiss 350 hubs , sapim CX ray spokes and these rims:
https://www.carbonal.com.cn/carbon-mountain-bike/29er-mtb-asd937tr-asymmetric-37mm-wide-24-5mm-deep-carbon-rim.html
Anyway is weird when you fit a 1 Kg tyre on a 750 grams complete wheel...
P.s. I use tubes, no sealant
-
Looks awesome. Nicely done. I'm almost done with my orange build.
I've run into one issue. I was trying to route a cable through the seat stay for the rear brake line. The plan was to route a shifter cable and then use it to guide the hose over it, then pull the cable out. I thought this may be asked than just doing the hose by itself. But I was having trouble even getting the cable through. I got it through the front triangle fine but couldn't get it to come out the seat stay. The magnet I was using wasn't very strong, but it's all I had. I came up with the dumb idea of feeding another cable from the seat stay exit. So I had two cables coming from opposite directions, both meeting at the exits by the rear shock. The plan was to tape the cables together and then pull them both out the seat stay, then unhook them so I'd have one continuous cable through the frame to guide the brake line. I actually did this when routing the cable to the derailleur and it worked out great.
t way either. I pulled so hard eventually the cable frayed and snapped. So I didn't want to damage the frame and eventually gave up. I clipped it off as short as I could.
So now I guess I'm going to go with an externally routed rear cable. That doesn't really bother me. Externally routed cables bother some people, but I've had several frames with them, and I don't even notice them looks-wise. I guess I could get a stronger magnet and try again. Maybe the cable will pass by the cut wording there. Maybe not. I just hope it doesn't rattle when I'm riding or I'll be looking for something to stuff in there to quiet it down.
Who invented press fit BB probably is burning in the flames of the hell, who invented internal route cables maybe too: why make a frame weaker and get a pain in the ass during installation just for aesthetic?
In my case I had to file the holes, otherwise no way; then I used a mix of the techinique dental floss & vacuum cleaner plus electrical cable puller: at the end I succeded but it took a lot of time.
-
Has anyone that's gone with Shimano 12 speed been able to get the derailleur set up right? It seems like when the B screw adjustment is correct the derailleur isn't at the right angle. I'm still playing with it but shifting isn't very good so far.
I'm also going to try to find Shimanos specs on derailleur placement in relation to the axle. I'm new to 12 speed but was a bike mechanic for quite a few years and something seems "off".
I installed 12 speed XT and aligned the line to the teeths of the 51 cog; the curvature of the mark line isn't exactly following the teeths profile, I don't know if it's a problem; shifting is generally good but not great, sometimes "clang" noise shifting up under load, maybe need more fine tuning.
-
I installed 12 speed XT and aligned the line to the teeths of the 51 cog; the curvature of the mark line isn't exactly following the teeths profile, I don't know if it's a problem; shifting is generally good but not great, sometimes "clang" noise shifting up under load, maybe need more fine tuning.
I'm fairly sure we all have hangers that are out of the specified limits that Sram has published for their current drivetrains and I suspect Shimano also uses though I haven't found what they spec. How much that effects everything I don't know, but may be something to keep in mind...
I have emailed Eddie to see if they have any other hangers that fit the frame and to try to get his thoughts. If I hear anything worthwhile I'll definitely pass it along.
-
I'm fairly sure we all have hangers that are out of the specified limits that Sram has published for their current drivetrains and I suspect Shimano also uses though I haven't found what they spec. How much that effects everything I don't know, but may be something to keep in mind...
Apparently we all have the same hangers, and Shimanos should not be specified differently than SRAM, otherwise the bike frames would need to come wit two different hanger models!
Really weird what's happening to you. There must be something wrong somewhere. Is your chainline correct?
-
I've run into one issue. I was trying to route a cable through the seat stay for the rear brake line. The plan was to route a shifter cable and then use it to guide the hose over it, then pull the cable out. I thought this may be asked than just doing the hose by itself. But I was having trouble even getting the cable through. I got it through the front triangle fine but couldn't get it to come out the seat stay.
I managed to route the brake line directly in the seat stay, pushing it from back to front, after filing the rear hole a little to give the line a better entry angle. The free end just popped out at the other end with some twiddling. Anyway, the free end becomes visible through the bigger front hole, so you can help it out with a small screwdriver.
-
I managed to route the brake line directly in the seat stay, pushing it from back to front, after filing the rear hole a little to give the line a better entry angle. The free end just popped out at the other end with some twiddling. Anyway, the free end becomes visible through the bigger front hole, so you can help it out with a small screwdriver.
I've found having picks around is very useful when running anything internally. Homemade options: paper clip, wire coat hanger, wheel spoke filed down. The string and tape method can work but have issues as you've seen. A magnetic routing kit is great too and you can get them for pretty cheap on AE now.
-
I have a question regarding the Rear Shock mounting hardware.. I am trying to build a couple of bikes ( 27.5" wheels ). For the rear shock, i understand the size of the shock, but just needed the clarification of the hardware..
Do I need the following : ( confusion if I need the kit or not )
1. M8x22.86 - https://thelostco.com/products/the-real-2021-fox-mounting-hardware?variant=32303772631121
2. M8x30 - https://thelostco.com/products/the-real-2021-fox-mounting-hardware?variant=32303770370129 or
2. M8x30-Kit - https://thelostco.com/products/the-real-2021-fox-mounting-hardware?variant=32407783309393
Thanks,
J
-
I have a question regarding the Rear Shock mounting hardware.. I am trying to build a couple of bikes ( 27.5" wheels ). For the rear shock, i understand the size of the shock, but just needed the clarification of the hardware..
Do I need the following : ( confusion if I need the kit or not )
1. M8x22.86 - https://thelostco.com/products/the-real-2021-fox-mounting-hardware?variant=32303772631121
2. M8x30 - https://thelostco.com/products/the-real-2021-fox-mounting-hardware?variant=32303770370129 or
2. M8x30-Kit - https://thelostco.com/products/the-real-2021-fox-mounting-hardware?variant=32407783309393
The roller bearing kit only fits the damper body, with a few exceptions that don't fit this frame, so don't buy that. Contrary to the Haideli site, the 30mm is actually at the front (frame connection) and the 22.86 at the rear (linkage).
-
The roller bearing kit only fits the damper body, with a few exceptions that don't fit this frame, so don't buy that. Contrary to the Haideli site, the 30mm is actually at the front (frame connection) and the 22.86 at the rear (linkage).
Thanks, I will get the regular ones then.. cheers
-J
-
Alert for all users:
I've found the shock conneting rod with 8 mm allen key loose after first 20 km test ride...I made it tight adding more thread lock compound; definetely these bolts need some attention
-
Will the bolts tighten the connection even when tight?
It wasn't obvious, but I found one side wouldn't get tight enough and there was flex when pushing and pulling on the rear end. This was because the countersunk hole that the bolt head sits in and is supposed to pull everything tight, was a little too deep and when the bolt bottoms out in the linkage there is still space under the bolt head and allows some side to side movement.
I took a fairly stiff wall plastic bottle, cut it open and laid it flat and cut a washer/spacer with heavy utility scissors. This let the bolt tighten everything up and feels like it should, at least when pulling on it and when sitting on it and bouncing it up and down (there are dirtbike sounds too but I don't think they are important...I kid, I kid). I was going to see if I could find a metal one the right size or make one, but I think what I made will hold up just fine. Time will tell.
Might want to double check all the connections because like I said, it wasn't obvious until I gave it a good sideways tug.
-
There was some talk a few pages back regarding what a mud guard for the shock. I had designed and printed myself one a few weeks back that seems to work well. It's held on via a zip and i've attached it for anyone that has a 3d printer.
-
Will the bolts tighten the connection even when tight?
It wasn't obvious, but I found one side wouldn't get tight enough and there was flex when pushing and pulling on the rear end. This was because the countersunk hole that the bolt head sits in and is supposed to pull everything tight, was a little too deep and when the bolt bottoms out in the linkage there is still space under the bolt head and allows some side to side movement.
I took a fairly stiff wall plastic bottle, cut it open and laid it flat and cut a washer/spacer with heavy utility scissors. This let the bolt tighten everything up and feels like it should, at least when pulling on it and when sitting on it and bouncing it up and down (there are dirtbike sounds too but I don't think they are important...I kid, I kid). I was going to see if I could find a metal one the right size or make one, but I think what I made will hold up just fine. Time will tell.
Might want to double check all the connections because like I said, it wasn't obvious until I gave it a good sideways tug.
After reading this I was really worried: when I found the bolt loose on the upper rod the rear traingle was really flexy side to side; I rechecked after I made them up with good threadlock and there is no flex, so probably the bolts are doing their job (I hope I don't have the gap issue), even if the rear triangle isn't super stiff laterally. Probably would be a good idea to get from Haideli a spare set of these bolts, they aren't standard pieces and if you lose one on the trail the bike becomes unusable.
-
Does anyone have torque specs for the unmarked linkage bolts?
-
Loc tite and similar thread lockers work well for some applications but for some I'm not a big fan. Once it cures and the bolt is turned, it shears the material and doesn't have the same retention so if your going over the bike making sure everything is tight and it turns, it won't be as strong. It usually will be fine but I like using Teflon tape when I can as it let's you make adjustments, especially on bigger diameter threads where thread lock can be difficult to break free with the larger contact area.
There is also a product called Vibra Tite that dries to a more soft plastic material and can be repositioned multiple times. Unfortunately it's hard to find in stores and usually I have to order it.
https://www.vibra-tite.com/threadlockers/removable-reusable-threadlockers/vibra-tite-vc-3-threadmate/
I've found some things in the past that was called thread sealant as well as a Teflon paste that both behaved similar once dry. However, I don't remember the brand or know if all brands behave the same.
Just thought I would throw this out there since it's not a well known product
-
There was some talk a few pages back regarding what a mud guard for the shock. I had designed and printed myself one a few weeks back that seems to work well. It's held on via a zip and i've attached it for anyone that has a 3d printer.
That's awesome. I wish I knew someone who has a 3D printer.
You could probably sell them on here.
-
Does anyone else's frame looks like it was carved out inside the bottom bracket? Is this normal? (I attached some images)
(https://gcdn.pbrd.co/images/XEMdOheGaN4O.jpg?o=1)
-
Does anyone else's frame looks like it was carved out inside the bottom bracket? Is this normal? (I attached some images)
I am not 100% sure but I think mine looks the same
-
My BB is in as well but from what I remember it was similar. If you look closely, I think you will find that is tape and not where material is milled/ground/carved out. For some reason they use tape to either block off areas or keep resin from dripping or etc etc??
-
How many people have had a chance to ride the bike yet? Thoughts?
I'm still waiting on a few parts that seem like they should be here by now so I might just run by some shops tomorrow or order from Amazon if that doesn't work. But from pushing sideways on the rear end and wheel, there seems to be some flex. Enough to be worrisome before having a chance to ride it yet. Just curious if there are more ride reports and thoughts on flex in particular.
This is my first "chiner" frame and at this point I'm not sure if I would do it again. Even going with a more budget build with SLX and Suntour suspension (though the high end stuff) and carbon/DT350/D Lite spokes, I've put more into it than I thought I would. I still know enough people from my racing days I can usually get 30-40% off msrp which brings price a lot closer. Even Canyon and similar consumer direct would be fairly close with the same parts spec. Though I could see a hard tail and a really budget spec for friends and family...but I'll wait to ride it for the final judgment. Though I still haven't gotten the shifting any better or figured out what to do about the der hanger and the out of range placement.
Anyways, I hope others are liking theirs and I get more excited once I can start rippin around some trails
-
Does anyone else's frame looks like it was carved out inside the bottom bracket? Is this normal? (I attached some images)
Mine was similar. Any carbon frame looks pretty rough inside, especially in corners.
-
How many people have had a chance to ride the bike yet? Thoughts?
Anyways, I hope others are liking theirs and I get more excited once I can start rippin around some trails
Yes, thoughts please. I haven't had a chance to ride mine yet because of my wrist.
-
How many people have had a chance to ride the bike yet? Thoughts?
Anyways, I hope others are liking theirs and I get more excited once I can start rippin around some trails
This is my second chiner, the first one was an XC carbon frame 9 Kg, still working after 9 years abuse; in that case the build was very easy.
With this bike the build was challenging, many issues (frame hitting the fork,chainline,internal cable routing, rear shock bolts) but at the end the bike is real; I spent more than what I planned, due also to parts shortage covid related: no special sales, if you find the part you want you pay full price.
I ended up with approx 3000 $ bill,(roughly 800$ frame, 700$ wheels, 900 $ suspensions, 600$ the rest) that it is above my initial plan.
I wanted a bike that is good downhill but not too heavy uphill, and for now I am really happy.
First rides impressions: (consider that there is still a lot of fine tuning to do)
At 12.3 Kg it is probably one of the lighest full suspension 160-150 mm excursion bike in the market: even 10,000 $ bikes sometimes are heavier; it climbs really well, the DT swiss F535 shock is perfect with three position lever (open, climb, full lock) giving a stable pedaling platform; this aliexpress saddle is very light and it's the most confortable I've ever tried:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32766321631.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dc99TC2
These pedals are also light, cheap and well made:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001829797106.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.27424c4dc99TC2
I don't feel the bike worse uphill than my 9 Kg XC bike, except maybe for the tyres drag (minion DHF+rekon).
Downhill performance:
The bike is good, I like the position and being extremely big it eats the trails and the bumps; despite this there is still a lot to do in tuning: the fork manitou mezzer has two hair chambers and two hidraulyc dials, now it's decent but not perfect.
I think the 740 mm wide handlebar has to be reduced to 700 or 720 mm (I am 176 cm tall); the position of the saddle relatively to the post also is not perfect.
The only way to have a good setup in my opinion is to go in a bike park, dial in the suspension and repeat the easiest trail a couple of times, I don't think I will have a chance to do this before next spring.
Shimano XT brakes are powerful enough on 180 mm discs and no drags at all; I wanted formula cura as first choice but are sold out around the world.
To maximize the fun you have to trust the bike and on flow section increase the speed above your confort zone...and it pays back, it literally flies over obstacles.
Mistakes during build:
The shimano chainring with 52 mm chainline it's too close to the frame: better to use an aftermarket chainring that has no bolts and then more clearance; I don't recommend the 55 mm chainline.
I Bought a 34 chainring, and while to me 34/51 is enough uphill, 34/10 is almost useless on this bike: a 32 teeths chainring is more than enough in my opinion.
Problems so far:
Rear brake hose rattles inside frame, probably not too difficult to fix; shifting up is good but not great, I have to study the hanger b screw position as per previous posts; for some evil reason my rear rim is true but the maxxis rekon tyre can't sit completely straight. (maybe defective tyre?)
After first ride one big bolt of rear suspension connecting rod got loose and the rear triangle become laterally flexy: I made up all four at the specified torque, added new thread locker and marked the bolts with paint to check movements: so far it's ok; with the bolts made up and the rear wheel installed it's not flexy, unless you push really hard.
And of course with such a new and nice bike I am not only afraid of hurting myself with a crash but also of damaging the bike itself ;D ;D ;D
Last problem...the bike it's huge and doesn't fit my car trunk as other bikes did >:(
-
Warning for those planning to use the Fox 36 Grip2 (current version): With the Cane Creek 110 Hellbender headset lower bearing and the Cane Creek spacer + 3mm, the adjustment dial of the fork still rubs a bit with the frame (size L). I'm going to change it for the + 6mm spacer, which will already give enough space, I hope.
The inside of my bottom bracket hole looks the same, it will be normal I guess.
Has anyone thought of the possibility of making a small hole to drain the water that can enter and accumulate in the lower part of the frame? I have seen it in other frames, but I do not know if it is really convenient or not ...
-
Warning for those planning to use the Fox 36 Grip2 (current version): With the Cane Creek 110 Hellbender headset lower bearing and the Cane Creek spacer + 3mm, the adjustment dial of the fork still rubs a bit with the frame. I'm going to change it for the + 6mm spacer, which will already give enough space, I hope.
The inside of my bottom bracket hole looks the same, it will be normal I guess.
Has anyone thought of the possibility of making a small hole to drain the water that can enter and accumulate in the lower part of the frame? I have seen it in other frames, but I do not know if it is really convenient or not ...
That is surprising, I guess crown and damper heights differ a lot as I have a similar setup (Hellbender 70 and the +3mm race) and my Zeb clears by about 3-4mm on the medium frame.
I don't know about the drain - I would assume they would reinforce the carbon layup designed around a drain hole so drilling one might work into a weak point really quick. I'm no expert though, asking a real one would probably be in your best interests :)
-
Oh yes, there is a substantial difference from what I see ... you've had better luck.
I forgot to mention that my frame is size L, I edit the previous post.
Yes, it may be better not to pierce anything just in case ...
-
This is my derailleur alignment; shifting good but could be better expecially shifting up. Comments?
-
A small drain hole shouldn't cause issues. Sharp bit and go slow then lightly sand on the inside to remove any burrs - assuming bottom bracket is out. A guy on reddit went to change cable housings in a frame with no drain hole and found black mold on everything. for a little more peace of mind it seems like an easy adjustment.
-
I finished my build. I took my time since this is the first time I've ever built up a bike. I did it entirely through watching YouTube videos, and I had fun doing it. There were some learning moments, but all and all it wasn't too tough. Thanks to everyone on here who gave advice and answered questions for me. And thanks to Eddie for giving a good deal. This group buy is what convinced me to try this project.
I am a budget mountain biker that is always looking for a good deal. This build reflects that. It done with budget parts. My build:
Frame: large in orange matte
Fork: Suntour Durolux (had the previous model Durolux and it was amazing. Hope this one is as good)
Rear shock: Manitou McLeod (got a great deal on this shock, always wanted to try one)
Drivetrain: Microshift Advent X (can't wait to try this on the trail)
Brakes: Shimano Deore with 180mm rotors (got these brakes cheap on AliExpress)
Dropper: PNW Loam dropper
Dropper lever: cheap one off AliExpress. (Kind of like the Wolf tooth knockoff I bought off there on my other bike)
Handlebar: Iveke carbon 780mm (I went 31.8 hoping it may be softer on the hands than 35mm)
Stem: Hussefelt 40mm (I had a brand new one from a long time ago sitting around)
Wheels: Silt AM
Tires: Specialized Butcher up front and Slaughter in the rear (wanted a fast rolling rear. I hope it has enough grip for around here)
Cranks: cheap Chinese IXF cranks. (There were knobs on the inside of the cranks that were hitting the rear triangle. I had to hacksaw them off to get it to work)
Chainring: Chinese oval ring (my first oval ring. Should be interesting)
Headset: used the on that came with it
Bottom bracket: also used the provided one
Seat: a Chinese knockoff of a Specialized Power
Pedals: Chinese knockoff of Kona Wah Wah 2 composite
Grips: ODI Dreadlocks (these are my favorite grips so far)
Frame protection: Lizards kind downtube protector and chainstay sleeve
That's it. Built with budget parts. Can't wait to see how it rides.
I posted on here how I was going to route the rear brake externally because I messed up and had to cut some taped up cable left in the seat stay. But I tried again and noticed it wasn't blocking, so I have the internal routing a go again. I bought cheap internal route kit off Amazon for fifteen bucks. It was a life saver. I don't think I could have got that brake cable routed without it. I wasted hours figuring out the other internal routing on my own with an magnet and a paperclip. It was brutal. The kit mad it so easy. I really wished I would have started with it.
I also couldn't get rid of play in my headset using the stock equipment. I had to buy a star nut and that solved the problem right away.
I learned a ton from this build.
-
Not sure why the pic posted so blurry. It's clear on my tablet. Sorry
-
Second try
-
Still blurry. Oh well
-
I finished my build.
I learned a ton from this build.
Same to me...learned a lot from this build and from related issues; internal brake routing in my opinion is a bad idea, I also wasted a lot of time and now I have to solve the hose rattling inside frame issue; I think the best idea (from youtube) is to slide around the hose some foam tube from the lower hole (where is the rubber seal) that is bigger.
Your part list doesn't sound like low quality, probably just your final weight isn't light as mine; I finished above 3000$ for 12.3 kg; what is your weight and final bill?
Also post a ride review (if you have time)and a report about the last issues we are experiencing: is the rear triangle flexy? Bolts are tight? Shifting is ok? Rear deraielluer position?
One comment: I think you cut your hoses too long
Enjoy the bike!
-
...internal brake routing in my opinion is a bad idea, I also wasted a lot of time and now I have to solve the hose rattling inside frame issue; I think the best idea (from youtube) is to slide around the hose some foam tube from the lower hole (where is the rubber seal) that is bigger...
After a couple of bikes, you'll find internal routing more normal, not that funny, but normal 8)
Another thing you can do for the rattling issue, is to get some pipe insulation foam, cut it in two longitudinally and shorter than the downtube.
Remove the fork, and put it in the frame by the bottom of the headtube, trying to squeeze the hose against the frame.
-
Rode mine the first time last Saturday, a short ride compatible with my wrist recovery. Ascent with steep technical portions, then a downhill singletrack, flowy at the beginning with small jumps, ending with tight turns in a steep off-camber section. Dry conditions, which make the off-camber bit slippery with loose soil and dust.
The climb was way easier, both technically and physically, than with my Rocky Mountain Altitude (same type of bike, but 27.5 wheels and "old" geometry).
The descent felt significantly better than with the Altitude. The bike is responsive and grippy, and handles great in the small turns, which I initially doubted with the big wheels. Haven't tried tight switchbacks yet.
Shimano drive train switches flawlessly (all Shimano but an e13 cassette). No cables rattling in the frame that I could hear above the rolling noise. The rear triangle is stiff, at least as stiff as my Altitude.
-
Do you have the 14-17 Altitude or the 18-20 one?
-
Do you have the 14-17 Altitude or the 18-20 one?
The 14-17.
-
Same to me...learned a lot from this build and from related issues; internal brake routing in my opinion is a bad idea, I also wasted a lot of time and now I have to solve the hose rattling inside frame issue; I think the best idea (from youtube) is to slide around the hose some foam tube from the lower hole (where is the rubber seal) that is bigger.
Your part list doesn't sound like low quality, probably just your final weight isn't light as mine; I finished above 3000$ for 12.3 kg; what is your weight and final bill?
Also post a ride review (if you have time)and a report about the last issues we are experiencing: is the rear triangle flexy? Bolts are tight? Shifting is ok? Rear deraielluer position?
One comment: I think you cut your hoses too long
Enjoy the bike!
Yeah it's just the front brake and rear derailleur hose that are a bit too long. The front brake is how long it came pre bled out of the box, so I just threw it on there. Now that I've cut and bled a brake, I'll redo the front. And the rear derailleur will be simple to trim down.
-
I cut my shimano hose, I bled one brake but there was no air, so I didn't even bled the second; then I read that 90% of cases you don't need to bleed after hose trimming
-
Hi, I am looking to make an order for the frame soon, but hearing as quite a few people who completed building up the bike has mentioned that the rear triangle has some lateral play to it. I am trying to understand what you guys mean by this as it is honestly quite concerning how this can happen.
Maybe someone who has this issue with their built bike can maybe post a video showing what they mean? And maybe what they did to solve this issue. That will be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!
-
With thin shims in it is considerably better than it was. I have a variety of different nylon washers coming today so I am going to experiment with 1-3mm on each side.
A video of the flex (https://imgur.com/uZ9xPy0).
-
Thanks for posting the video. Hope that’s before the shims because it looks unrideable. I am still waiting on my frame to ship and have asked Eddy about the issue. Hopefully it is being addressed. Don’t see these frames continuing to sell if not. I know I would not have ordered after seeing all of these concerns. Very interested in more video post fix.
-
Thanks for posting the video. Hope that’s before the shims because it looks unrideable. I am still waiting on my frame to ship and have asked Eddy about the issue. Hopefully it is being addressed. Don’t see these frames continuing to sell if not. I know I would not have ordered after seeing all of these concerns. Very interested in more video post fix.
That is with the shims I made from a gallon water bottle, probably .5mm - maybe less. I believe the issue is like FlaMtnBkr said, the bolts are just a few mm too long and bottom out in the back of the linkage. The "proper" fix is probably shorter bolts, whether that is a redesign or a cut and chamfer, but I noticed with the bolts out it is pretty far from the linkage. Pinching it in may actually contribute to the stiffness and I may make it worse by adding larger shims, we'll see :)
After about 10 hours riding with the shimmed setup I don't feel like it is squirming or losing traction. That may just be me getting used to it or simply paying more attention to suspension tuning than flex.
I don't know anybody with a current generation Santa Cruz to see how much flex is acceptable, I would like to compare.
-
I see, thanks for the video, really concerning especially it being a china frame. Do update us if you are able to do any other things that may try and fix and stop the flexing.
Hope to hear what eddy says when he replies Maffly. Do keep us updated thanks again.
-
That is with the shims I made from a gallon water bottle, probably .5mm - maybe less. I believe the issue is like FlaMtnBkr said, the bolts are just a few mm too long and bottom out in the back of the linkage. The "proper" fix is probably shorter bolts, whether that is a redesign or a cut and chamfer, but I noticed with the bolts out it is pretty far from the linkage. Pinching it in may actually contribute to the stiffness and I may make it worse by adding larger shims, we'll see :)
From what I gather, there are only two in the group that have the problem. I have no issue and the vast majority of the group probably doesn't either, because we don't post when there is no issue! Mine definitely doesn't flex like that!
The shim solution doesn't sound great - is it so hard to mill some mm off the bolt? How does the incriminated bolt compare with the one on the other side?
-
Good to hear that the flex is not an issue on your frame. Been following cybrsrce and his badass build. Scary to see all the time, effort and expense go in just for an issue like that to happen. The bolt being too long or running out of threads is one possibility for sure and the most hopeful one. I will let you all know if Eddy responds to the concerns. Guess we are all sort of gamblers and problem solvers or else we wouldn’t be taking this on
-
From what I gather, there are only two in the group that have the problem. I have no issue and the vast majority of the group probably doesn't either, because we don't post when there is no issue! Mine definitely doesn't flex like that!
I have the issue as well. Mentioned in cybrsrce's thread . Cut some plastic shimas as I couldn't find anything to use that would work at the hardware store.
I hope it's not a common problem but realistically not many people who have bought the frame chime in regardless of if they have issues or not. 2 of 2 people with build threads have the issue and like 3 out of the like 7 people who have the frame and regularly contribute have the issue. So I wouldn't brush it off as a non issue for most.
-
From what I gather, there are only two in the group that have the problem. I have no issue and the vast majority of the group probably doesn't either, because we don't post when there is no issue! Mine definitely doesn't flex like that!
The shim solution doesn't sound great - is it so hard to mill some mm off the bolt? How does the incriminated bolt compare with the one on the other side?
For the safety of the linkage threading you should use a chamfering tool, but yes taking 2mm off would seem to be the best solution. I don't want to mess with the bolts because they're not something you can just run out and buy, I'll play that game when I get an extra set. Both sides are shimmed at the moment but there doesn't seem to be any play between the linkage and the rear triangle without the shims, just more flex. Washers were $5, it was worth it to test. I have washers and shims everywhere on this frame, what is another set :)
-
Whoa! My bike does not do that
-
Whoa! My bike does not do that
There is also the possibility that I am just a gorilla, it would be good to see what others bikes do. Flex your rear triangle, a Chinertown internet challenge...
-
Looks like it moves quite a bit without much effort. Wheel flex seems significant too but hard to tell. My buddies Yeti looked just like that when it needed a rebuild. Good as new with bearings replaced. Tolerances don’t have to be off by much to cause problems. Like the idea of the video challenge.
-
Wow, that is a lot of movement.
Has anyone spoken to Eddy about this so that they are at least aware of the issue.
-
I emailed him. Responded that he got it but no details
-
With thin shims in it is considerably better than it was. I have a variety of different nylon washers coming today so I am going to experiment with 1-3mm on each side.
A video of the flex (https://imgur.com/uZ9xPy0).
Actually, it's more the wheel that flexes than the rear triangle, and that entirely depends on the wheel build. Try gripping the rear axle instead of the tire.
-
Actually, it's more the wheel that flexes than the rear triangle, and that entirely depends on the wheel build. Try gripping the rear axle instead of the tire.
I'll try to get an angle where the bike more supported and the movement stays in the triangle. If you don't focus on the tire you'll see the seat tube moving more than the seat stays. I'll put an axle with a handle on and see if it is any different but the wheel flex won't make the seat stays flex.
-
Sorry that i have not got the email for the question you mentioned, can you show us some pictures by email.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
-
Wow, that is a lot of movement.
Has anyone spoken to Eddy about this so that they are at least aware of the issue.
Yea i messaged eddy already and sent him the video cybersrce posted. He said he will check and get back to me
-
I mentioned mine doesn't move like that, but I haven't got it on a trail yet. Maybe after riding it may loosen up more.
-
I'll try to get an angle where the bike more supported and the movement stays in the triangle. If you don't focus on the tire you'll see the seat tube moving more than the seat stays. I'll put an axle with a handle on and see if it is any different but the wheel flex won't make the seat stays flex.
Even if you can see the triangle move a little in your video, looking carefully, this is totally overwhelmed by the excessive flex of your wheel (do you have play in your wheel axle?). Anyway, the triangle will always flex, bikes are not made of concrete. Mine does, but not more than my Altitude, and the feeling on the trail is fine, for the moment.
-
Even if you can see the triangle move a little in your video, looking carefully, this is totally overwhelmed by the excessive flex of your wheel (do you have play in your wheel axle?). Anyway, the triangle will always flex, bikes are not made of concrete. Mine does, but not more than my Altitude, and the feeling on the trail is fine, for the moment.
There is no movement in the axle.
Yes the wheel flexes but no more than any other wheel I have.
Tried it with two other wheels and the triangle, specifically the lateral movement of the seat stays, is the same.
Also had it in the KICKR with the same movement. I would record that but it is on a rocker platform and I don't want that movement to confuse you like the tire...
Only one other carbon FS on hand at the moment, it flexes but about 10mm total. Different platform and not a relevant comparison.
I know they flex, it is part of the design. How much flex is too much flex in comparison to the the same frame has always been the question. Since you're having trouble discerning the difference between the tire and triangle movement it is about 20mm of seat stay flex. It was more without the shims and now it feels fine.
How much does YOUR triangle flex? "Not that much" isn't helpful, I'm sure you can understand that.
-
It`s very hard to judge from the video, maybe it would be better to do the flex test without the wheel. Anyway, mine flexed like that after one bolt got loose (and it I was scared before I saw the loose bolt). In my opinion the bolts are just of the proper lenght, in some bikes they reach the bottom, so the rear triangle is flexy, in others they are barely ok and there is no flex.
Anyway if Eddy will give us a quote I will be very happy to buy a spare set of frame bolts: they are non standard parts, just lose one on the trail and the bike is not usable; then only a lathe artisan can rebuild it, also the threads aren`t standard, it is a fine thread.
If we have spares then the best idea it`s to file down the bolts to desired lenght.
-
Anyone install a ride wrap or invisiframe on a xl? Trying to determine if I should buy the xxl or xl kits the companies provide.
Thanks!
-
This bike doesn't line up perfectly with Santa Cruz bikes, so it will require modification either way as the Tailored ridewrap kits are very tight fitting
-
Any news on the flex problem from Eddie? To bad non of these manufacturers have spare frame parts to buy directly with the frame. Seams like an expensive lottery especially if your not able to join a group buy. Although that frame looks very nice. Any videos of people who don't have the flex problem or video in the field?
-
Eddy has replied to me as I am waiting for mine to ship and have expressed some concerns regarding the flex issue. His response was a bit confusing but my take away from his response was not all of the frames have the issue. He then said all frames flex if you “shake” them hard enough. Not clear if he is acknowledging a specific issue with some frames or not. Crossing fingers at this point. Sure I can find a way to tighten it up if need be.
-
Any news on the flex problem from Eddie? To bad non of these manufacturers have spare frame parts to buy directly with the frame. Seams like an expensive lottery especially if your not able to join a group buy. Although that frame looks very nice. Any videos of people who don't have the flex problem or video in the field?
I believe you shouldn't base your opinion on problems highlighted in this type of forum, because it's problem solving that is discussed at length (and you probably arrived in the forum just when this one was being discussed). Those that don't have the problem, probably the majority, will not say so, unless someone organizes a poll!
Moreover, the video is impressive but misguiding, because a lot of elements are moving around at the same time, with the wheels flexing most, but also the seat post, so you can't really see how much the rear triangle flexes comparatively.
I tried to flex my rear triangle holding the rear axle and pressing my knee in the linkage area. There is some flex, but not more than on my Altitude. Comparatively the wheel flexes much more, and that will have more influence on how the bike handles when you tilt it.
-
I believe you shouldn't base your opinion on problems highlighted in this type of forum, because it's problem solving that is discussed at length (and you probably arrived in the forum just when this one was being discussed). Those that don't have the problem, probably the majority, will not say so, unless someone organizes a poll!
Moreover, the video is impressive but misguiding, because a lot of elements are moving around at the same time, with the wheels flexing most, but also the seat post, so you can't really see how much the rear triangle flexes comparatively.
I tried to flex my rear triangle holding the rear axle and pressing my knee in the linkage area. There is some flex, but not more than on my Altitude. Comparatively the wheel flexes much more, and that will have more influence on how the bike handles when you tilt it.
I don't have much of an opinion yet, that's why I'm asking. And when it comes to problem solving it definitely would help if one can order parts for the frame. Don't agree that the wheel seems to be flexing more in that video though.
And you shouldn't assume things either. I've read here since this frame came out, where else would I get any info or get opinions?
Wouldn't it be nice if there where spare parts available to order?
Good to hear you haven't got that problem though
-
1mm washers "fix" the problem. Some frames, like mine, do not have enough material between the head of the bolt and the bearing so it bottoms out in the linkage. I get about half the flex now which is about the same as another carbon bike I have around. It is a different suspension platform, less travel, and an extra small - so not really a fair comparison.
Without making major design changes, the washer or removal of 1-2mm from the end of the bolt is the easiest resolution.
If I could steady cam the video I took, I would use the seatpost of the focal point so it would be easier to discern that the movement is the triangle without drifting focus to the wheel. An old stiff carbon wheel would make the triangle flex look even worse.
-
1mm washers "fix" the problem. Some frames, like mine, do not have enough material between the head of the bolt and the bearing so it bottoms out in the linkage. I get about half the flex now which is about the same as another carbon bike I have around. It is a different suspension platform, less travel, and an extra small - so not really a fair comparison.
Without making major design changes, the washer or removal of 1-2mm from the end of the bolt is the easiest resolution.
If I could steady cam the video I took, I would use the seatpost of the focal point so it would be easier to discern that the movement is the triangle without drifting focus to the wheel. An old stiff carbon wheel would make the triangle flex look even worse.
Thanks for your answer, Im kind of new to this so some questions might come out wrong. Hedeli seem to be helpful when it comes to order spare parts though, Im thinking if a bolt comes loose in about a year or so, one would like a spare or be able to find one.
-
Seams like an expensive lottery especially if your not able to join a group buy.
@Krillle, I didn't correctly prune my quote when I posted my comment. The above is what I reacted to. The point I was trying to make is that the issues are probably scarce and related only to the linkage bolt issue, so you have a good chance at winning the lottery.
So how many out there have the bolt issue? I've counted two or three. What about the warranty in that case?
We haven't quantified either what an acceptable flex is, so we shouldn't be all worried to note some flex - for now I can only compare it to my other bike and evaluate the riding feel, which is pretty good so far.
And sure, it would be nice if spare bolts and other linkage components were available.
Speaking of spare parts, the derailleur hanger is available here (choose the FS831 option): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001935571629.html
-
I have a lot of flexing and the drive side has some play that you can see move when pulling in the rear triangle. There is also some clicking noise as the bearing has extra play.
-
Has anyone asked for the design specification of the linkage bolts and measured what was delivered? Some of the early FM936 frames had a lower linkage bolt that was out of spec, but saw or file down to the design spec and the issues were fixed.
-
Thanks for all your guys of the feedback.
Now the mold have been a little adjustment for the flex of the rear triangle.
We would checking all the suggestion in the forum.
Many thanks.
-
Eddy, can you tell us which checks and eventual retrofit we can do to existing frames to correct (potential) flex problem?Are spare bolts available for purchase?
-
I have a lot of flexing and the drive side has some play that you can see move when pulling in the rear triangle. There is also some clicking noise as the bearing has extra play.
Is this when pulling sideways on the rear end in relation to the upper linkage? Like wrap your fingers around the upper seat stay and put thumb on linkage and pull sideways. If so, this is what I experienced and is caused by the bolt head pocket being too deep and there being space between the bolt head and rear end when the bolt is completely tightened, to there can be flex until there is contact with the bolt head. This is where a spacer or washer under the bolt to fill the space and let the bolt properly tighten the rear end to the linkage. I made one out of a stiff plastic bottle and used heavy scissors to cut out, which was far from perfect looking but made everything tight and I will see how it holds up.
I'm not sure how adding a spacer would further reduce flex if the bolt already properly tightens everything. But I plan on trying to see if it makes a difference. As of now pulling sideways with my hands I don't notice any flex in relation to the linkages and front end. Pulling on the wheel does appear to cause flex but I built the wheels and still need to go over it with a tensionometer as it's been a few years since building them, but based on feel and plucking spokes it should be fully tensioned but I want to double check.
-
Eddy, can you tell us which checks and eventual retrofit we can do to existing frames to correct (potential) flex problem?Are spare bolts available for purchase?
Show me by email which bolts you would be need, yes, we would offer it.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
-
Slowly building the bike. Going for 165 mm cranks with Wolftooth 30 oval chainring.
All cables routed and this was easier than expected. Having a little problem with the rubber suppurting the cables in the holes. Any tips or is it smooth violence that is the solution?
The dropper is a 150 mm Crankbrothers and the brakes Magura 4-piston.
-
Slowly building the bike. Going for 165 mm cranks with Wolftooth 30 oval chainring.
I went with a 30t oval and 165mm cranks as well, it is an excellent pedal platform. I just ordered crank boots even though I already have some strike rash on them. I originally thought the BB was going to be too high...
All cables routed and this was easier than expected. Having a little problem with the rubber suppurting the cables in the holes. Any tips or is it smooth violence that is the solution?
I had to use pics and a small flat head screwdriver to get it in place. It took a little work but I definitely made threats of violence during the process :) I was lucky to only need to do it with the brake hose.
-
Slowly building the bike. Going for 165 mm cranks with Wolftooth 30 oval chainring.
All cables routed and this was easier than expected. Having a little problem with the rubber suppurting the cables in the holes. Any tips or is it smooth violence that is the solution?
The dropper is a 150 mm Crankbrothers and the brakes Magura 4-piston.
Had same (small) problem with the hose rubbers; if they don't want to go in place you can make them softer using an hairdrier.
Concerning cranks I used 175 mm as I this is the size in all my bikes and to get good pedaling efficency; the BB is quite low and the risk of pedal strikes is there, but I don't think 1 cm less makes a big difference, for sure some difference.
Which frame protector are you using? I've ordered aliexpress orange kydex but I am sure it is a different orange; plan B is to buy and cut some transparent large diameter water hose and stick it down there.
-
Is this when pulling sideways on the rear end in relation to the upper linkage? Like wrap your fingers around the upper seat stay and put thumb on linkage and pull sideways.
Yes, exactly. It is like the bolt is too long. I need to take measurements and will contact Eddy for a shorter bolt.
-
Had same (small) problem with the hose rubbers; if they don't want to go in place you can make them softer using an hairdrier.
Concerning cranks I used 175 mm as I this is the size in all my bikes and to get good pedaling efficency; the BB is quite low and the risk of pedal strikes is there, but I don't think 1 cm less makes a big difference, for sure some difference.
Which frame protector are you using? I've ordered aliexpress orange kydex but I am sure it is a different orange; plan B is to buy and cut some transparent large diameter water hose and stick it down there.
1mm is enough to make a difference between hitting or missing, 1cm is 10 times that.
Just saying as someone that has gone from 27.5+ to 29ers because of the pedal strike on an FM10. Normally ride 175mm, went to 170mm and sill got them enough to warrant the change (and also allow me to get back to 175mm cranks)
-
Now these chameleon color also available.
Thanks
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
-
I haven't tried pedaling 165 mm, I don't know how much worse is uphille and better dowhill in avoiding strikes: bb height of 831 is 344 mm, so means 159 mm clearance with 175 mm cranks and 10 mm sag; using 165 mm cranks will increase it to 169 mm, that is just 7% higher / better.
In my opinion working on suspension sag and hydraulics is the first move to limit dive and then the risk of strikes, but the low BB is part of the so called modern geometry, giving low center of gravity and then of course more stability; I admit I was tempted by 170 mm cranks (santa cruz hightower uses 170 mm), but I never considered 165 mm.
Just a note: the frame is new and we are like beta testers, but the communication with Haideli (Eddy & Joy) so far is excellent, so this is for sure an added value in the choice of buying one frame rather than the other; a lot of aliexpress or chinese companies are just resellers and don't have any technical support.
-
I am building this frame with 27.5 wheels. Does someone know what offset for the fork we should get.. Is it 44 as in the 29" wheels ?
-
I haven't tried pedaling 165 mm, I don't know how much worse is uphille and better dowhill in avoiding strikes: bb height of 831 is 344 mm, so means 159 mm clearance with 175 mm cranks and 10 mm sag; using 165 mm cranks will increase it to 169 mm, that is just 7% higher / better.
In my opinion working on suspension sag and hydraulics is the first move to limit dive and then the risk of strikes, but the low BB is part of the so called modern geometry, giving low center of gravity and then of course more stability; I admit I was tempted by 170 mm cranks (santa cruz hightower uses 170 mm), but I never considered 165 mm.
Just a note: the frame is new and we are like beta testers, but the communication with Haideli (Eddy & Joy) so far is excellent, so this is for sure an added value in the choice of buying one frame rather than the other; a lot of aliexpress or chinese companies are just resellers and don't have any technical support.
You are spot on with your measurements. I'm sitting at ~166mm (sagged) at the lowest point of the crank arms - but I still get crank strikes even if I skip the aptly named "boulder trail". All depends on terrain. It is an unnecessary amount of clearance for flow trails and bike parks, for tech trails/climbs I could use another 20mm.
-
Some great looking new colors, eddy
-
Some great looking new colors, eddy
Thanks.
-
Build mine up yesterday, i've ordered some stickers and still have to go to 160mm instead of 150 with the fork.
Dit notice the flex in the rear triangle right away, unfortunately.
Will get better photo's once cleaned and branded!
-
There was some talk a few pages back regarding what a mud guard for the shock. I had designed and printed myself one a few weeks back that seems to work well. It's held on via a zip and i've attached it for anyone that has a 3d printer.
Here is another solution to keep the rear shock somewhat clean. Holds with only two zip ties on the seat stays - not perfectly stable, but has held so far in pretty rough terrain and rough riding.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003325658168.html
@geekbox32, I tried to print that fender, but it comes out too thin and crumbles apart. Maybe not the correct plastic. I'll try to add some thickness.
-
I thought I was going to get I. My first ride today. But when I went to set the sag. I've got a horrendous high pitched squeak or creaking. It wasn't there when I sat on it before.
Should I be greasing the pivot points or loc-tighting them?
-
Here is another solution to keep the rear shock somewhat clean. Holds with only two zip ties on the seat stays - not perfectly stable, but has held so far in pretty rough terrain and rough riding.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003325658168.html
That looks pretty slick, does it cover enough to keep any dirt off of you? I have a large mudhugger which does a great job but it looks soooo stupid.
-
That looks pretty slick, does it cover enough to keep any dirt off of you? I have a large mudhugger which does a great job but it looks soooo stupid.
No, doesn't keep the dirt off your ass, but just the shock and the lower part of the seat tube.
-
I went chasing my squeak and I think I found it. It seems it was the rear shock mount being too loose. I tightened it up and the squeak stopped. Unfortunately I put the wheel back on to test and see if it made a difference without putting loctite On the bolt. So I assume it will eventually get loose and I'll have to do it again.
I didn't get to take the bike to a trail today, but I rode it around the neighborhood. It's super plush I'm excited about the McLeod I have on the rear. As a budget mountain biker it's so nice to have something besides a rockshox deluxe select for a change.
-
I was gonna fix a cut tube over the rear shock, but that little fender looks like a good option. I may look into that route.
-
I can confirm that the Cane Creek spacer + 6mm with the Fox 36 Grip2 (latest version) and the Cane Creek 110 Hellbender headset lower bearing, on a size L frame it's ok: 2mm of clearance, perfect for those who want to minimize the change from the original angles
-
The aliexpress mudguard is for sure something to try as it costs only 2$ !!!
-
I can confirm that the Cane Creek spacer + 6mm with the Fox 36 Grip2 (latest version) and the Cane Creek 110 Hellbender headset lower bearing, on a size L frame it's ok: 2mm of clearance, perfect for those who want to minimize the change from the original angles
Jal, would you mind provide us with the URL link for the components? I brought the wrong one. Didn't work. Just trying to save additional hassle. Thanks.
-
Yes, of course, BSAM.
+++ First the +6mm spacer (Reference number: BAA1078K):
Offical site= https://canecreek.com/product/6mm-52-40mm-alloy-crown-race-baa1078k/
* Strangely, they don't have a photo of the piece on their website.
https://www.bike24.es/productos/315770
*Do not trust the image placed on this website, it does not correspond to the real piece, probably because on the official page
they do not have a photo of the spacer, so they have put a photo of a regular crown race.
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=93742
https://www.modernbike.com/cane-creek-40-series-crown-race-52-40-steel-1.5-6mm
https://www.dirtworksb2b.com.au/0-series-6mm-rise-crown-race-52-40-36-deg-fits-can
https://www.ebay.com/p/4025434942
http://www.bikeman.com/BTI-DC2071.html
https://www.bikeparts.com/BPC181140/cane-creek-40-series-crown-race-(52-40)-steel-15%22-(-6mm)
+++ Now the bottom bearing * Be careful, very important= 36ºx45º!!!:
+The expensive one (Reference number BAA1055):
https://www.bike24.es/productos/276765
https://www.bikeshop.es/rodamiento-de-direccion-cane-creek-hellbender-aa-5-52-mm-36-x45-inox-baaaa-55/171077.html
https://www.alltricks.com/F-201990-roulements/P-1726115-cane_creek_hellbender_1_5___39___39__52mm_36x45____steering_bearing
https://www.amaincycling.com/cane-creek-hellbender-bearing-36-x-45-52mm-shis-baa1055/p-2uqxsxwqdtqzwdwz
https://www.airevelobearings.com/product/52mm-baa1055-cane-creek-hellbender-stainless-steel-mh-p25k-ss/
+The expensive one with a crown race with rubber seal that will not be used if the spacer is fitted (Reference
number BAA0143):
https://www.bikeshop.es/cane-creek-juego-de-direccion-integrada-aaaa-aa-5-cazoleta-baja-is52-negro/80798.html
https://r2-bike.com/CANE-CREEK-Steuersatz-Unterteil-110IS52-Bottom_3
https://www.performancebike.com/cane-creek-110-bottom-headset-is52-40-baa0143/p-fqhrs4fc5eqetqhe?v=313846&avad=158767_d24b01989
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cane-Creek-110-Series-Headset-Bottom-Hellbender-Integrated-S52-40-Black-BAA0143-/324378776312
https://www.bikebug.com/cane-creek-110-series-is52/40-headset-bottom-assembly---baa0143---black.html
+The cheapest one (Reference number BAA1132):
https://www.alltricks.es/F-201990-roulements/P-655625-cane_creek_40_series_bearing_36x45___52mm
https://www.bikeshop.es/rodamiento-de-direccion-cane-creek-zn-4-aa-5-36-45-52-mm-baaaaaa32/167933.html
https://www.modernbike.com/cane-creek-zn40-bearing-52mm-zinc-plated-each
https://www.bearingsrus.co.uk/bearings/bike-bearings/cane-creek-baa1132
https://www.airevelobearings.com/product/52mm-cane-creek-baa1132-mh-p25k/
+The cheapest one with a crown race with rubber seal that will not be used if the spacer is fitted (Reference
number BAA0086):
https://www.bikeshop.es/cane-creek-direccion-integrada-forty-aa-5-cazoleta-baja-is52-negro/80809.html
https://www.amaincycling.com/cane-creek-40-bottom-headset-is52-40-baa0086/p-2eaxh3rqvt2bsdwz?v=313800
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cane-Creek-40-Series-baa0086-IS52-Headset-Black/dp/B004JKJTX6
https://www.worldwidecyclery.com/products/cane-creek-40-is52-40-bottom-headset-black
https://www.universalcycles.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=39947
https://r2-bike.com/CANE-CREEK-Steuersatz-Unterteil-40IS52-Bottom_3
https://www.bikebug.com/cane-creek-40-series-is52/40-headset-bottom-assembly---baa0086---black.html
+++ You can also buy a complete headset (110, Hellbender 70 or 40 models) with the appropriate measurements: IS42/28.6 (upper bearing size) and IS52/40 (bottom bearing size). Models 110 and 40 can be chosen with low (9mm) or high (15mm) stack height top cover; the Hellbender 70 model is available in low (9mm) stack height only.
-
Build mine up yesterday, i've ordered some stickers and still have to go to 160mm instead of 150 with the fork.
Will get better photo's once cleaned and branded!
Hey, Magura caliper at the back and apparently Shimano lever - is that a "Shigura" setup? Why a Shimano caliper in front then?
-
What are everyone’s impressions of tire clearance? Is 2.4 on ~30mm internal rims about the real limit or might I be able to fit a 2.6? (Presumably fitting protective stickers to ward off any occasional rub.) I demoed a Hightower this summer and noticed tire clearance was crazy tight, just wondering if the 831 is similar that way. I live in a very rooty rocky area and would like maximum tire volume.
-
Also, any thoughts on possible over-shocking or running offset bushings to raise the bike for an MX build? I like the idea of trying out a mullet setup but would want to bring the geometry as close to normal as possible. I don’t love super low BB heights on my usual trails, too many violent pedal strikes even with good technique.
-
What are everyone’s impressions of tire clearance? Is 2.4 on ~30mm internal rims about the real limit or might I be able to fit a 2.6? (Presumably fitting protective stickers to ward off any occasional rub.) I demoed a Hightower this summer and noticed tire clearance was crazy tight, just wondering if the 831 is similar that way. I live in a very rooty rocky area and would like maximum tire volume.
Clearance is tight with a 2.4 that actually measures 2.4 (61mm) and the last time I measured it there is only a 66mm opening where the 29" tire treads are. I am also in a rocky/rooty area but the 2.4 is fine. You might get more space with the 27.5 as it opens up a bit more.
Also, any thoughts on possible over-shocking or running offset bushings to raise the bike for an MX build? I like the idea of trying out a mullet setup but would want to bring the geometry as close to normal as possible. I don’t love super low BB heights on my usual trails, too many violent pedal strikes even with good technique.
27.5x2.6 is probably going to be about an inch smaller than a 29x2.4, going to drop the BB by 10-15mm maybe? You can try offset bushings to counter that. I don't know that 5mm tire width and a little volume is worth it unless you're already set on MX.
With 29x2.6F, 29x2.4R, and 165mm cranks I only had two pedal strikes and one crank strike today! MX would make the bike nearly unusable for me, ymmv.
-
+++ You can also buy a complete headset (110, Hellbender 70 or 40 models) with the appropriate measurements: IS42/28.6 (upper bearing size) and IS52/40 (bottom bearing size).
Are you sure it's a IS42? I thought that was the "Italian" version that's less common? I'm currently using the supplied headset but was going to upgrade at some point and thought when I measured it was an IS41 but it's put together now.
-
Are you sure it's a IS42? I thought that was the "Italian" version that's less common? I'm currently using the supplied headset but was going to upgrade at some point and thought when I measured it was an IS41 but it's put together now.
Supplied headset is a 41.8mm bearing which is a common size for ZS and EC, the Cane Creek IS42 bearing fit for me.
-
The bearing included with the Cane Creek IS42/28.6 upper headset is 41.8mm, exactly the same measurement as the headset bearing supplied with the frame:
-
I measured the frame and used info from Cane Creek when I thought it was an IS41. But it's been a while and I could have measured wrong.
The box the headset came in had no info on it and while I would like to think the wrong one couldn't have found its way, I don't think I'm that confident. That said, I have no idea if the wrong one could fit? It seems like the bottom surface with the angle is what mainly located the bearing and that there was some space between side of bearing and the frame. If that were the case then I would think similar sizes could possibly fit but I could be remembering that wrong as well.
Hopefully I'm wrong and wasting bandwidth, but since I measured and thought it was the IS41 I will make sure to triple check everything when I have it apart. The IS42 I'd definitely the "Italian" version and not the standard size so it's a bit strange to me to use that size and I guess I would rather sound like an idiot than say nothing if there is even a small chance of something being wrong...
-
Hey, Magura caliper at the back and apparently Shimano lever - is that a "Shigura" setup? Why a Shimano caliper in front then?
I've got a dual piston magura for the front too! But had the hose on order so just waiting for that to come in. Shigura's are cool so just a bit of an experiment,
-
I have measured the diameter of the hole for the bearing in my frame, and it is 42mm (hundredths above hundredths below, measuring from different points). I guess that the headsets for 42mm hole come with a 41.8mm bearing to allow some clearance and to fit with no pressure and allow a little space for the grease to serve as a seal. But, although I have never experienced it or seen anyone do it, I think putting a 41 bearing would leave too much space and could create play and noise issues, and perhaps spoil the bearing and its seat, but I'm not sure either. I would not try. What is certain is that the headset bearing included with the frame is 41.8mm, as the bearing provided by Cane Creek with its specific headset for 42mm bore
-
What torque specs are everyone using for the shock mounts?
-
What torque specs are everyone using for the shock mounts?
I asked Eddy and didn't get an answer so I've been using 10nm. Bolt checks before rides and nothing has been loose so far.
-
Yes, of course, BSAM.
Jal, you are the man. Thank you so much for taking your time to provide the links for us (Especially newbie like me). Brought couple parts, then found out it won't fit => :)
-
I can confirm that the 29x2.6 would not work because it rubbed like crazy. In fact, when I first attempted and spin the wheel on the bike stand. The tire took a layer of the pain off due to the rubbing friction.
Clearance is tight with a 2.4 that actually measures 2.4 (61mm) and the last time I measured it there is only a 66mm opening where the 29" tire treads are. I am also in a rocky/rooty area but the 2.4 is fine. You might get more space with the 27.5 as it opens up a bit more.
27.5x2.6 is probably going to be about an inch smaller than a 29x2.4, going to drop the BB by 10-15mm maybe? You can try offset bushings to counter that. I don't know that 5mm tire width and a little volume is worth it unless you're already set on MX.
With 29x2.6F, 29x2.4R, and 165mm cranks I only had two pedal strikes and one crank strike today! MX would make the bike nearly unusable for me, ymmv.
-
That’s good to know. There are a lot of things I like best about the 831 out of the options I have for an modern “enduro” 29er unbranded frame, but I’m still trying to decide if I can live with a 2.4. I run 27.5x35mm internal rimsx2.8 on my current enduro bike (2020 GT Force) and demoed a 2021 Hightower this summer that reminded me of both the good and bad things about typical skinny tires. I think I’d be much happier with 2.6s.
The Light Carbon FS947 is my other candidate and while not nearly as easy on the eyes (or the suspension kinematics, probably), it’s got the tire clearance and a few other things going for it:
*BSA threaded BB
*Takes the same 185x55 trunnion shock as my Force so I already have two shocks that fit it, probably the right tune too
*No questions about fork crown/knob clearance/needing a spacer
*$300-400 cheaper shipped (if I’m not able to get in on an 831 group buy; it might be weeks more before I have the money for a frame), plus saves me ~$500 on a shock
The seat post insertion depth on the 947 is a bit short, it’s ~400g heavier, and it probably has a higher center of gravity than the 831 so probably a little disadvantage on handling. But I feel like I’m losing the argument with myself to justify the 831…
Maybe I’ll build a 947 this winter and then an 831 in the spring when I’ve sold enough other bikes to help pay for it.
-
Alchemist,
Which price did you get on FS 947 to be 300$ cheaper than 831?
About other concerns, to me press fit BB is a pain the ass, but I think you can ask for BSA option on 831; about the fork now the issue is addressed, 3mm spacer (you barely see it once installed) and the problem is solved.
For the rear tyre I confirm that with 29x2.4" maxxis the clearance isn't great, it barely fits, but to my personal taste I don't feel the need for a wider tyre; also the frame is more a trail/enduro than a pure enduro, and personally I don't do big jumps or drops. 2.4" maxxis has a good volume.
-
I could be misremembering — this is the stuff I’m trying to think through before I commit to one or the other — but I believe a 947 from Light Carbon is $620+100 shipping, whereas an 831 from the Tideace store on eBay is about $1000.
Maybe I’ll get lucky and have the money in time for an 831 group buy; I’m a suspension geek/gearhead of many years and would rather have that efficient low slung VPP swingarm.
I can probably learn to live with a 2.4 rear and the other little compromises the 831 requires….but I also have severe arthritis and do quite a bit of jumps etc despite it so a little extra tire is always appealing. And I’m trying to hit the value sweet spot with this build — being able to reuse a DPX2 Factory shock I already have on the 947 is hard to say no to. One less thing I’d have to sell in order to fund the build.
Since I’d probably be getting a Large, is the whole crown race spacer thing even an issue for me?
-
I could be misremembering — this is the stuff I’m trying to think through before I commit to one or the other — but I believe a 947 from Light Carbon is $620+100 shipping, whereas an 831 from the Tideace store on eBay is about $1000.
Maybe I’ll get lucky and have the money in time for an 831 group buy; I’m a suspension geek/gearhead of many years and would rather have that efficient low slung VPP swingarm.
Since I’d probably be getting a Large, is the whole crown race spacer thing even an issue for me?
I don't remember exactly but I think I paid 850$ for the 831 painted and shipped without a group buy; just contact Joy or Eddy directly. Concerning the spacer depends on the combination frame size / fork model, but 90% you will need it; not a big deal to me, install and forget it. About tyre size and other options it goes to personal taste, and the use of the bike: the main questions is will you climb with your legs or with lifts? In case B you can have big tyres, heavy parts, spring shocks, etc. I am mostly in the case A, so I built the bike light 8)
-
The second group buy is still open, Eddy posted a reminder about it the other day.
http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3356.0.html
-
Contact me to join the groupbuy B order.
Thanks
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
-
Any more finished build owners can give some feedback and reviews of how the bike rides? Really on the edge of making an order with Eddy, just need that final push that everything will be fine, after seeing all the issues with the frame that was raised through this thread
-
Any more finished build owners can give some feedback and reviews of how the bike rides? Really on the edge of making an order with Eddy, just need that final push that everything will be fine, after seeing all the issues with the frame that was raised through this thread
Would be great if there was a way to have a collaborative FAQ related to this frame. I got mine ordered but would love to know more about the in's and out's of this frame.
-
me too man, just pulled the trigger and ordered the frame. Hope all goes well haha.
One question for those who completed their builds already.. what crankset and chainring options did you guys go for? I read earlier in the thread that there is very little tolerance for the chainring before it rubs the frame, do we need to go for boost cranksets or do you think the regular cranksets will work? What chainline do you recommend going for shimano cranks
-
Just got mine and am putting together now. Have a regular xt crank and bought a 30 tooth wolf tooth to go on because of clearance fears. The 30 tooth xt will actually work just fine. Don’t see a clearance issue. Now have one ready to go when it wears out.
-
Do you guys a 32T oval will be OK? Or will that rub?
-
With my bb and cranks I would be confident that a 32 oval would be just fine.
-
Any1 knows if a dvo topaz t3 will fit the frame? I know the santa cruz suspension design has quite tight tolerances due to the low shock mounting system
-
Any1 knows if a dvo topaz t3 will fit the frame? I know the santa cruz suspension design has quite tight tolerances due to the low shock mounting system
as long as it is an air shock, it should fit :)
-
Any1 knows if a dvo topaz t3 will fit the frame? I know the santa cruz suspension design has quite tight tolerances due to the low shock mounting system
It should. And the Topaz T3’s default tune is already pretty keyed to VPP kinematics (similar to the Low tune of most Fox/RS shocks), so it’s a perfect choice.
-
Do you guys a 32T oval will be OK? Or will that rub?
I think the oval I have on mine is 32t
-
Any1 knows if a dvo topaz t3 will fit the frame? I know the santa cruz suspension design has quite tight tolerances due to the low shock mounting system
Plenty of room for the Topaz T3 but you may have some issues airing the bladder chamber depending on your shock pump. As others said, it will fit most air shocks other than the ones with gear on the damper end like the Fox X2, Rockshox Vivid air, Cane Creek DB, etc. Basically the same ones that won't fit on the HT v2.
-
Do you guys a 32T oval will be OK? Or will that rub?
Depends on your crankset. A Shimano, or Shimano style, boost spindle or a SRAM set with boost offset chainring and you'll have no problems. Anything else and you may be in for some trial and error.
-
Plenty of room for the Topaz T3 but you may have some issues airing the bladder chamber depending on your shock pump. As others said, it will fit most air shocks other than the ones with gear on the damper end like the Fox X2, Rockshox Vivid air, Cane Creek DB, etc. Basically the same ones that won't fit on the HT v2.
That’s a very good point. I’ve noticed a lot fewer Topaz shocks on VPP bikes since SC went to the lower mounting. I’m sure there’s a good solution for that, but I’d want to be sure before I bought one for an 831 whether a normal shock pump fits comfortably or if you need one with a right angle attachment or adaptor.
I’d been planning to get a Topaz for my 831 build (once I’ve got the money to commit to the group buy, not sure how soon that’s going to be), but maybe I should be looking elsewhere unless/until somebody confirms exactly how this works for them.
The problem is I really don’t know what other off the shelf shock is likely to be anywhere near close to the right tune…DVO used Santa Cruz as one of the testbeds for their default tune. I guess I can try to find a 210x55 in a Low tune and go from there, but I liked the idea of a one stop shop (and DVO does their own custom tuning service if I need customization).
The good news is that the second generation Topaz T3, which is in production now but not officially for sale yet, has a sideways piggyback like the one on the Topaz 2. Bryson Martin from DVO showed it off on his Instagram recently.
-
If access to the piggyback air pressure port is a problem on the existing Topaz (and looking at the one I have on my Force, I think it probably will be a problem on an 831; most shock pump attachment ends are quite long) it will probably be an issue on the Suntour TriAir too — the IFP piggyback is a little longer but fills the same basic way.
-
I am buying a dvo topaz t3 from a guy who took it off his ibis, just fully serviced as well. Accessing the pump valve doesn't really bother me as I like to adjust the shock once and leave it as is haha..
-
I am buying a dvo topaz t3 from a guy who took it off his ibis, just fully serviced as well. Accessing the pump valve doesn't really bother me as I like to adjust the shock once and leave it as is haha..
The problem with that is that the bladders are known to lose air slowly over time so you have to top them off every few rides, or at least once or twice a month, just to be sure.
But if you’re able to figure out a solution we’d be very interested to hear about it. Right now my next best alternative is either an unknown tune Super Deluxe Select+ off Ali for $422, a 2018 Bronson tuned (Low damping) 210x55 Super Deluxe Ultimate for about $600, or a stock Medium tune Fox Float X for $520 (Performance Elite)-$600 (Factory). Not really sure where to get a custom tuned Fox shock out of the box these days, and it’s hard to find even the default tune 210x55 in stock right now.
I’m looking for something to pair with a Marzocchi Z1 most likely, and want a piggyback with a good damper (so no RS Select or Fox Performance stuff, only Select+/Performance Elite or better) but I’m trying to keep this build under $4000 without cutting too many corners….so being able to use any old 210x55 Topaz would be nicer than any of the other options I see so far. Who knows when the second generation T3 will be available.
-
One question for those who completed their builds already.. what crankset and chainring options did you guys go for? I read earlier in the thread that there is very little tolerance for the chainring before it rubs the frame, do we need to go for boost cranksets or do you think the regular cranksets will work? What chainline do you recommend going for shimano cranks
I am using 34T chainring, I regret I didn't put 32T as the 34x10 is useless on this bike; no clearance problem with my aftermarket chainring; the original shimano XT-SLX (no matter which size) has only 0.3 mm clearance to the frame due to inner bolts; the aftermarket normally has no bolts, it is slim and the clearanche maybe 2-3 mm.
-
I went with a 34t chainring too and regret it. I wanted more downhill speed but hills are tough now haha just ordered a 30t oval to try out
Yea, I believe the newer style direct mount cranks fit with more clearance than the ones with chainring bolts
-
I am using 34T chainring, I regret I didn't put 32T as the 34x10 is useless on this bike; no clearance problem with my aftermarket chainring; the original shimano XT-SLX (no matter which size) has only 0.3 mm clearance to the frame due to inner bolts; the aftermarket normally has no bolts, it is slim and the clearanche maybe 2-3 mm.
Bolts? Is that an older generation of the crankset? I have SLX M7120 on another bike and the only chainring options were direct monut at the time. Either way 2-3mm is still really tight, I have 8mm give or take.
What chainline do you recommend going for shimano cranks
Boost (Shimano 55mm) because it is an aggressive trail bike, don't worry about chain line when you'll rarely be in the optimum gear(s) for it.
-
Shimano chainring is direct mount but it still has some kinds of micro bolts on inner face that have reduced clearance to the frame;the aftermarket chainring hasn't these bolts.
I am ok with 34x51 uphill, I don't need easier gear ratio, but still 34x10 is useless to me, better 32t or even 30t
-
I used a cheap set of cranks from China and had to hacksaw off the bolt mounts because they were hitting the rear triangle. Works now, though.
-
Found a video where the frame is tested
https://youtu.be/iFEvcHpcnnM
-
Found a video where the frame is tested
Interesting. The lateral testing around 20sec doesn't seem to have any slop or play in the rear triangle that some users are having.
-
Interesting. The lateral testing around 20sec doesn't seem to have any slop or play in the rear triangle that some users are having.
That is because the problem isn't planing, it is really good at transferring power without twisting the frame when putting power down. The problem is torsional flex of the seat stays when you're trying to push into a berm. If they used that same rig connected to the rear axle it would look like the wheel path is moving 10mm+ left or right - of my frame anyway.
-
Cybrsrce is correct. I would add that unless they changed the layup of the rear triangle to have the upper bearings pressed in from the outside or added bushings to the outside of the upper link, everyone will eventually have this problem. Does seem correctable with some work (see cybrsrce thread) but durability is yet to be determined.
-
Interesting. The lateral testing around 20sec doesn't seem to have any slop or play in the rear triangle that some users are having.
That is because the problem isn't planing, it is really good at transferring power without twisting the frame when putting power down. The problem is torsional flex of the seat stays when you're trying to push into a berm. If they used that same rig connected to the rear axle it would look like the wheel path is moving 10mm+ left or right - of my frame anyway.
It is also probably because that jig on the rear axle is free to pivot side to side. I dare say if it were held rigid like the headtube jig is you would get the flexing that is being reported.
-
Can anyone tell me where these parts are used on the bike? My frame came disassembled from Eddy because it was raw and needed paint, so not sure what these bits are for?
Thanks,
Luke
-
I don't have this frame but these Look like main pivot bearing preload spacer sleeve and the spacers that go between the mainnpoivot bearings inner races and the linkage.
The sleeve sits inside the frame between the pressed in bearings.
-
I don't have this frame but these Look like main pivot bearing preload spacer sleeve and the spacers that go between the mainnpoivot bearings inner races and the linkage.
The sleeve sits inside the frame between the pressed in bearings.
One would think and these conclusions are logical, but the sleeve seems to have no home, and these beveled bushings/spacers only seem to fit and/or make any sense on the upper most link on the top tube. That said, there is another set of spacers that did not have a bevel that fit behind those bearings in what seemed like a better way.
Anyone who has the frame and disassembled please provide any guidance you may have from disassembly as what bushings/spacers go in each pivot location.
Thanks,
Luke
-
The video above says TanTan down in the corner which means another (3rd or 4th?) company making them. I would be curious how that works because it's not the only frame made by more than one company which all seem to be manufacturers that claim to make frames. I'm wondering if it's something like a shared workshop or makerspace where tools and molds are co-owned or rented to reduce investment costs? And why you will see areas with multiple businesses of the same type in a small area if you search and map one of their addresses.
I don't really like saying this, but I think this frame has a pretty serious design flaw with the upper linkage and connection to the rear triangle/ seat stays. It can probably be made to be rideable in most cases, but what is left to be seen is how it effects the frame in the long term. I'm guessing there will be flex or bearing problems on most frames eventually. If it were me I think I would stop making frames and address it now instead of making more with problems. And I think it would be an easy fix. Would be nice to get some input from the maker and not just invitations to a group buy...maybe we also need a pole to see how many people with the frame are having issues already?
I think I will start a new thread with my build and what I've run into and try to get some pictures to help show what I'm talking about. I need to pull some stuff apart and take some pictures so might be a few days. I noticed something was wrong and made a washer to help a long time ago, but didn't really look at the design until I was messing with it a few days ago and there is definitely a problem.
Anyways...I really want to like the bike but at this point I don't think I would buy it again, at least not until a couple issues get worked out. And I think the only way that will happen is if current owners get vocal and let the maker(s) know there is a problem, as well as potential buyers that most likely don't want something that doesn't work right...
-
You can count me as on having problems with flexing in the frame. I even posted a vid in the other thread. Really hope there is a fix to this. A simple fix would be great, but even if it's buying a new linkage or rear triangle I just hope a good fix comes.
-
The video above says TanTan down in the corner which means another (3rd or 4th?) company making them. I would be curious how that works because it's not the only frame made by more than one company which all seem to be manufacturers that claim to make frames. I'm wondering if it's something like a shared workshop or makerspace where tools and molds are co-owned or rented to reduce investment costs? And why you will see areas with multiple businesses of the same type in a small area if you search and map one of their addresses.
I don't really like saying this, but I think this frame has a pretty serious design flaw with the upper linkage and connection to the rear triangle/ seat stays. It can probably be made to be rideable in most cases, but what is left to be seen is how it effects the frame in the long term. I'm guessing there will be flex or bearing problems on most frames eventually. If it were me I think I would stop making frames and address it now instead of making more with problems. And I think it would be an easy fix. Would be nice to get some input from the maker and not just invitations to a group buy...maybe we also need a pole to see how many people with the frame are having issues already?
I think I will start a new thread with my build and what I've run into and try to get some pictures to help show what I'm talking about. I need to pull some stuff apart and take some pictures so might be a few days. I noticed something was wrong and made a washer to help a long time ago, but didn't really look at the design until I was messing with it a few days ago and there is definitely a problem.
Anyways...I really want to like the bike but at this point I don't think I would buy it again, at least not until a couple issues get worked out. And I think the only way that will happen is if current owners get vocal and let the maker(s) know there is a problem, as well as potential buyers that most likely don't want something that doesn't work right...
Agreed, A manufacturing fix would be an upper link that has bearings like the HT2 - https://www.santacruzbicycles.com/en-US/bike/hightower/2-carbon, some modification to how the triangle attaches, and a different stronger layup of the seat stays to prevent roll even when you have good positive contact at the linkage.
If you don't mind the feeling like you have a flat and a really unpredictable rear wheel path at the most inconvenient times, this may be the frame for you.
-
Do you guys think if we were to replace the upper link with a HT2 link it would fix the problem? Granted, that's assuming it would fit
-
Fitting a SC link in there would be great. anyone able to test this? If so.. they are only 60 euros to order online.. doubt it though
-
It is worth showing the link assembly issues with pictures rather than just words to get the message better across, so I've drawn some (not to scale, dimensions exaggerated, showing the principles).
This is the 831 assembly of the upper link to one of the rear triangle eyelets, as far as I could make it out. Grey is the aluminum link, black the carbon triangle, blue the ball bearing and pink the screw. The screw presses the inner race of the bearing against the link, so the screw and inner race are one piece with the link. There is some clearance between the screw head and the triangle so that the parts can rotate with respect to each other.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8429;image)
This assembly would be alright if the two eyelets of the triangle (only one shown) were perfectly rigid relative to each other, but that is not the case. So, what prevents the outer bearing from sliding out of the triangle eyelet (to the left) is in practice only the press force of the outer bearing race in the eyelet, as Maffly stated.
Inevitably, when the triangle is submitted to lateral forces, the bearing will end up sliding to this position, where the eyelet contacts the screw head, and rubs against it as the triangle and link rotate relative to each other. After a while, clearance may build up between the outer race and the eyelet, whereby the bearing will move freely in and out... The rubbing with the screw head will cause wear and potentially loosen the screw...
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8431;image)
The situation wouldn't be improved if the bearing were pressed from the outside. The bearings should be in the link, not the triangle, as per the SC assembly shown below.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8433;image)
Yellow is a tube for taking up some of the axial force exerted on the bearings by the screw. Here, the bearings are mounted in the link and rely on the rigidity of the link between the two eyelets. The bearings cannot slide out.
Dammit, the 831 link and triangle need to be redesigned!!
A not too drastic redesign would be to provide something for keeping the bearing in the eyelet, such as a retainer ring.
What about the assembly of the lower link to the triangle? I haven't looked close at that yet.
-
Interesting. The lateral testing around 20sec doesn't seem to have any slop or play in the rear triangle that some users are having.
That's not "lateral" testing the rear triangle - they're applying torque to the bottom bracket to test the torsion of the front triangle.
-
It is worth showing the link assembly issues with pictures rather than just words to get the message better across, so I've drawn some (not to scale, dimensions exaggerated, showing the principles).
This is the 831 assembly of the upper link to one of the rear triangle eyelets, as far as I could make it out. Grey is the aluminum link, black the carbon triangle, blue the ball bearing and pink the screw. The screw presses the inner race of the bearing against the link, so the screw and inner race are one piece with the link. There is some clearance between the screw head and the triangle so that the parts can rotate with respect to each other.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8429;image)
JJJ thanks for sharing. This definitely helps everyone who has not studied this linkage for hours understand the issue happening inside this pivot. I am not convinced however that it is only the linkage at fault. I believe this is part of the issue (and likely easier to correct) than the 2nd issue which I believe is the triangle being flexy on its own. If anyone has evidence to support that the triangle is appropriately stiff because they jammed enough nylon into the pivot that it stopped flexing all together (within what we know is acceptable based on other bikes) please prove me wrong. I have inserted the outer bushings by making a custom set of nylon spacers. It seems to be helping some. I also inserted some smaller “janky” inserts race but It was binding the whole pivot from moving freely which was unacceptable. Perhaps if some perfectly toleranced metal inserts where made it would work, but to JJJ points the engineering is faulty.
Why didn’t they just replicate the SC pivot? I rode with a friend yesterday that had a hightower and studied it pretty closely. The bike is very similar with the major difference being how they handled this set of bearings and pivot. Why they decided to reinvent the wheel on this is beyond me. Seems like they should have stuck with both sets of bearings in the pivot. They did so for the top bearings in the link, but decided to do their own thing for the lowers. Can only assume it was related to production efficiency or something similar.
-
Do you guys think if we were to replace the upper link with a HT2 link it would fix the problem? Granted, that's assuming it would fit
It is more complicated than that. You would need the triangle to be re-designed to accommodate a bolt through rather a bearing i.e with the bearing removed from the triangle something needs to fill the space.
-
It is more complicated than that. You would need the triangle to be re-designed to accommodate a bolt through rather a bearing i.e with the bearing removed from the triangle something needs to fill the space.
Why do you need to remove the bearing? Would it be terrible if you left it there and it sat against another bearing? Well, as long as the bolt fit through it.
Fitting a SC link in there would be great. anyone able to test this? If so.. they are only 60 euros to order online.. doubt it though
I totally would have but they are sold out here in the states
-
JJJ, thanks for doing that! I have a post that I've been trying to describe it all and started on drawings last night, and you have done it all so I don't have to! And it looks a lot better than what I have so far.
I think the pictures probably really help others see what is going on.
On my frame, if I pulled on the seat stay there was very obvious movement so I made a washer to fill the gap under the bolt head and the carbon of the frame. This reduced the play but I didn't stop to look at the design and what was actually happening. Since the bolt is holding the bearing tight to the linkage, when the frame moved over the bearing was sliding in and out of the frame. The washer just limits the movement but between the bearing moving in the frame and the bolt rubbing on the frame or washer if installed, things are going to start falling apart pretty quickly.
I also haven't looked at the lower link as it isn't as easy to get to. But the bearings are in the linkage so hopefully it will be better. I might as well pull it apart because I still can't get the shifting very good, I'm assuming because the derailleur hanger is out of Sram specs, and have only ridden the bike around the yard. I'm surprised others aren't having issues with poor shifting. While I am picky about shifting, it's not even good enough to go out of the yard and a second issue that needs addressing IMO. After seeing what's going on at the linkage I don't expect to be riding this any time soon or ever if there isn't some kind of fix.
-
JJJ, thanks for doing that! I have a post that I've been trying to describe it all and started on drawings last night, and you have done it all so I don't have to! And it looks a lot better than what I have so far.
I think the pictures probably really help others see what is going on.
On my frame, if I pulled on the seat stay there was very obvious movement so I made a washer to fill the gap under the bolt head and the carbon of the frame. This reduced the play but I didn't stop to look at the design and what was actually happening. Since the bolt is holding the bearing tight to the linkage, when the frame moved over the bearing was sliding in and out of the frame. The washer just limits the movement but between the bearing moving in the frame and the bolt rubbing on the frame or washer if installed, things are going to start falling apart pretty quickly.
I also haven't looked at the lower link as it isn't as easy to get to. But the bearings are in the linkage so hopefully it will be better. I might as well pull it apart because I still can't get the shifting very good, I'm assuming because the derailleur hanger is out of Sram specs, and have only ridden the bike around the yard. I'm surprised others aren't having issues with poor shifting. While I am picky about shifting, it's not even good enough to go out of the yard and a second issue that needs addressing IMO. After seeing what's going on at the linkage I don't expect to be riding this any time soon or ever if there isn't some kind of fix.
Mine is shifting perfectly with Shimano 12 speed and a 51 cassette. This may just be your setup which I would say is a good thing as you just need to work it out. The frame play...well that is definitely a bigger issue.
-
I think the carbon is stiff enough in the rear triangle. I have nylon spacers in there now that have it working well but I doubt it will hold up long. I put some perfectly sized aluminum spacers off of an Evil pivot in there and it was as stiff as any bike I own. Suspension did not move freely though and would also cause damage. I think we have all diagnosed the problem correctly. Bearings in the link or pressed from the outside would both have worked. Plenty of bikes do it both ways. The question now is what to do about this. I think Eddy needs to step up and offer a legitimate fix(doubtful) or refund/return options. If not we need to warn others about this frame.
-
On my frame, if I pulled on the seat stay there was very obvious movement so I made a washer to fill the gap under the bolt head and the carbon of the frame. This reduced the play but I didn't stop to look at the design and what was actually happening. Since the bolt is holding the bearing tight to the linkage, when the frame moved over the bearing was sliding in and out of the frame. The washer just limits the movement but between the bearing moving in the frame and the bolt rubbing on the frame or washer if installed, things are going to start falling apart pretty quickly.
Yes, I guess you're unlucky there. My bearings don't move in and out of the eyelet... yet. But I do have some traces of rubbing from the screw head.
I've attached a potential fix, using a second ball bearing on the outside. It does need crafting a custom screw, though.
-
Mine is shifting perfectly with Shimano 12 speed and a 51 cassette. This may just be your setup which I would say is a good thing as you just need to work it out. The frame play...well that is definitely a bigger issue.
I also have Shimano 12 speed with a 10-51 cassette and I've tried everything. I described it probably in the last 10 or 12 pages if interested. The hanger is definitely out of the limits of Sram's current specs for a hanger. It's not a ton but as precise and temperamental as the B screw adjustment needs to be, it's enough to cause problems. Adding 2 links to the chain allows the derailleur to rotate back into the correct angle and b screw adjustment and shifting got a lot better. But in the high gears the chain is too long so the derailleur is in wrong position and doesn't provide enough tension.
I've also gone above and below each adjustment trying to find some combination of adjustments that will work but nothing does and it's always noisy and "searching". I can show how it's out of spec but it probably doesn't matter because your shifting is either good or it isn't. Not that I have a solution, but it might be worth keeping in mind if someone ever has shifting problems they can't figure out. Anyways...
-
JJJ,
What software are you using for those drawings?
-
JJJ,
What software are you using for those drawings?
Just Inkscape, no CAD software
-
Been a while since I've messed with that. Can you make a drawing or 'part' that you can move in relation to others, similar to 3D CAD? If not, seems like each drawing would take a while? I think it's still on my PC and will have to look at it again...
-
Been a while since I've messed with that. Can you make a drawing or 'part' that you can move in relation to others, similar to 3D CAD? If not, seems like each drawing would take a while? I think it's still on my PC and will have to look at it again...
It's 2D vector drawing software, so you can group shapes, duplicate them and move them around. The second drawing was very easy to make from the first.
-
This is my first Chinese frame. Has something like this occurred with a frame before? Did the manufacturer do anything about it?
-
Yes, I guess you're unlucky there. My bearings don't move in and out of the eyelet... yet. But I do have some traces of rubbing from the screw head.
That was the reason for my inside washer, it wasn't making good contact with just the one under the head of the bolt and was making a clicking sound. (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3445.msg31880.html#msg31880)
I've attached a potential fix, using a second ball bearing on the outside. It does need crafting a custom screw, though.
I like that idea.
-
i like the idea to activate paypal...
-
That was the reason for my inside washer, it wasn't making good contact with just the one under the head of the bolt and was making a clicking sound. (http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3445.msg31880.html#msg31880)
Oh, I hadn't seen that properly: so you have a 1.5 mm washer on each shoulder of the screw. IMHO you should file off 2 mm from the end of the screw instead, so that the smaller shoulder contacts the inner race of the bearing, and then you need no washers, except maybe a thin one under the head of the screw to protect from rubbing. Otherwise you have the inner race resting on the thread instead of the intended cylindrical portion. And is that grease on the screw? I believe that's one reason why your screw tends to loosen - I'd degrease the screw and add thread lock.
-
When speaking to Eddy about this I was told shorter screws didn't work for them to fix the flex and they had to fix the mould for the rear triangle to get rid of the flex
-
When speaking to Eddy about this I was told shorter screws didn't work for them to fix the flex and they had to fix the mould for the rear triangle to get rid of the flex
Is Eddy a technician? I'd rather say a middleman who probably didn't fully understand the issue. Regarding cybrsrce's case, he first needs to have the screw shoulder contact the inner race metal on metal, and have the race seated properly on a cylinder. That will contribute to reducing the flex, for sure.
-
Is Eddy a technician? I'd rather say a middleman who probably didn't fully understand the issue. Regarding cybrsrce's case, he first needs to have the screw shoulder contact the inner race metal on metal, and have the race seated properly on a cylinder. That will contribute to reducing the flex, for sure.
no he is definitely not but speaks on their behalf. he hasnt answered any of my questions without conferring with the engineers first or at least thats what im being told.
-
Oh, I hadn't seen that properly: so you have a 1.5 mm washer on each shoulder of the screw. IMHO you should file off 2 mm from the end of the screw instead, so that the smaller shoulder contacts the inner race of the bearing, and then you need no washers, except maybe a thin one under the head of the screw to protect from rubbing. Otherwise you have the inner race resting on the thread instead of the intended cylindrical portion. And is that grease on the screw? I believe that's one reason why your screw tends to loosen - I'd degrease the screw and add thread lock.
That reminds me that I ordered a chamfering tool to clean it up after cutting or filing if it came to that. Need to see where that is. I'm not sure why the threads are shiny in my picture but they're dry and they don't come loose, little wins I guess.
-
Maybe this was covered, but did anyone find a US based source for the Derailer hanger and more importantly the nut the axle bolts into?
-
I don't know if it fits, but Cube brand bikes has some models with a derailleur hanger that looks the same. I don't know if it will definitely work or how hard it is to find, but would at least be something to search for. Also, the threaded part should come with the hanger and be part of a set that sandwiches part of the frame in the middle and has a screw that holds everything in place.
-
It is worth showing the link assembly issues with pictures rather than just words to get the message better across, so I've drawn some (not to scale, dimensions exaggerated, showing the principles).
This is the 831 assembly of the upper link to one of the rear triangle eyelets, as far as I could make it out. Grey is the aluminum link, black the carbon triangle, blue the ball bearing and pink the screw. The screw presses the inner race of the bearing against the link, so the screw and inner race are one piece with the link. There is some clearance between the screw head and the triangle so that the parts can rotate with respect to each other.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8429;image)
This assembly would be alright if the two eyelets of the triangle (only one shown) were perfectly rigid relative to each other, but that is not the case. So, what prevents the outer bearing from sliding out of the triangle eyelet (to the left) is in practice only the press force of the outer bearing race in the eyelet, as Maffly stated.
Inevitably, when the triangle is submitted to lateral forces, the bearing will end up sliding to this position, where the eyelet contacts the screw head, and rubs against it as the triangle and link rotate relative to each other. After a while, clearance may build up between the outer race and the eyelet, whereby the bearing will move freely in and out... The rubbing with the screw head will cause wear and potentially loosen the screw...
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8431;image)
The situation wouldn't be improved if the bearing were pressed from the outside. The bearings should be in the link, not the triangle, as per the SC assembly shown below.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8433;image)
Yellow is a tube for taking up some of the axial force exerted on the bearings by the screw. Here, the bearings are mounted in the link and rely on the rigidity of the link between the two eyelets. The bearings cannot slide out.
Dammit, the 831 link and triangle need to be redesigned!!
A not too drastic redesign would be to provide something for keeping the bearing in the eyelet, such as a retainer ring.
What about the assembly of the lower link to the triangle? I haven't looked close at that yet.
What about the gap to the left of the bearings? The one between them and the aluminum linkage. Is that a concern?
-
Maybe this was covered, but did anyone find a US based source for the Derailer hanger and more importantly the nut the axle bolts into?
No US source, this is a Chinese frame! The hanger is available on Aliexpress here https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001935571629.html
Choose the "FS831 Use".
-
What about the gap to the left of the bearings? The one between them and the aluminum linkage. Is that a concern?
No concern, no parts can move to fill in that gap - the inner and outer races of a ball bearing can't move axially relative to each other.
-
I don't know if it fits, but Cube brand bikes has some models with a derailleur hanger that looks the same. I don't know if it will definitely work or how hard it is to find, but would at least be something to search for. Also, the threaded part should come with the hanger and be part of a set that sandwiches part of the frame in the middle and has a screw that holds everything in place.
Yeah that is what I found as well. Ended up ordering for bike inn UK as nobody over here carries Cube pieces. This bike is starting to be a money pit, and with the pivot issue I am starting to lose hope it will work out and be a scalable solution for my customers. It is a shame because it is pretty dam close to be a great bike.
-
Inevitably, when the triangle is submitted to lateral forces, the bearing will end up sliding to this position, where the eyelet contacts the screw head, and rubs against it as the triangle and link rotate relative to each other. After a while, clearance may build up between the outer race and the eyelet, whereby the bearing will move freely in and out... The rubbing with the screw head will cause wear and potentially loosen the screw...
What about using bearing retainer compound? I had a similar problem on a different frame with the bearing race in the rear upper triangle that was machined too deep which allowed the bearing to move in the race. The bolt head was flat and tightening was limited because it contacted the link and not the bearing. Adding washers and bolt length would not solve the issue. I used Loctite 603 to fix the bearing in the race and it seemed to fix the issue although I did not use the frame much after that.
-
What about using bearing retainer compound? I had a similar problem on a different frame with the bearing race in the upper triangle link that was machined too deep which allowed the bearing to move in the race. The bolt head was flat and tightening was limited because it contacted the link and not the bearing so washers would not solve the issue. I used Loctite 603 to fix the bearing in the race and it seemed to fix the issue although I did not use the frame much after that.
That means taking the bearing out and pressing it back in with the compound, right? Not sure the bearing will come out unharmed, meaning a new bearing would have to be pressed in. And then it would be even harder to replace in the future...
I was thinking about drilling two or three holes radially in the eyelet around the bearing, and threading them for grub screws that you could tighten against the outer bearing race. Not sure how well carbon can be threaded, though.
-
That means taking the bearing out and pressing it back in with the compound, right? Not sure the bearing will come out unharmed, meaning a new bearing would have to be pressed in. And then it would be even harder to replace in the future...
I was thinking about drilling two or three holes radially in the eyelet around the bearing, and threading them for grub screws that you could tighten against the outer bearing race. Not sure how well carbon can be threaded, though.
I removed the bearings yesterday and had no issues. You just need the right bearing tools to do this.
-
What about using bearing retainer compound? I had a similar problem on a different frame with the bearing race in the rear upper triangle that was machined too deep which allowed the bearing to move in the race. The bolt head was flat and tightening was limited because it contacted the link and not the bearing. Adding washers and bolt length would not solve the issue. I used Loctite 603 to fix the bearing in the race and it seemed to fix the issue although I did not use the frame much after that.
Did you put the loctite on the inner race and bolt or on the outer race and the carbon frame?
-
I removed the bearings yesterday and had no issues. You just need the right bearing tools to do this.
What proper tools are those? Neither of my pullers fit inside the rear triangle.
-
What proper tools are those? Neither of my pullers fit inside the rear triangle.
I have several sets of press tools including the rrp http://www.rapidracerproducts.com/products/tools/bpet.html
-
Since the bolt presses against the inner race coming from the outside, you should be able to tap the bearing out fairly easily since it's not in a blind hole. Mine moves so easy it will probably fall out or take a light press with a finger tip.
-
Since the bolt presses against the inner race coming from the outside, you should be able to tap the bearing out fairly easily since it's not in a blind hole. Mine moves so easy it will probably fall out or take a light press with a finger tip.
I believe this is the root cause of the "flex" issues. The press-fit was botched on some frames, and those where the bearings are still tight are OK for the moment, like mine. But this is only temporary, alas. The bearings will end up moving axially and loosen. Then you need to fill the clearance on the screw side with a washer, but then the parts will rub, which makes no sense with a ball bearing mount.
-
Back again with some comments on the upper link bearing mount.
On the left, the actual mount, to scale. On the right, the nearest correct way to do it - an elastic retainer ring holding the bearing in its recess.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8443)
This is a suggested (IMHO good) correction for the existing frames, to scale, using a standard pair of 6703 bearings that fit in the recesses for the bolt heads. Needs a new pair of bolts as drawn - I have a mechanic workshop in the neighborhood, and will check if they can do this and for how much. Probably cheaper if I can order a certain number of pairs. A minor issue is the tolerance of the carbon width (approx. 3mm) between the two bearings, and whether the inner race of the new bearing will rub against the carbon. I've ordered a pair of 6703s to experiment with.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8445)
(http://)
-
JJJ let us know if you are moving ahead with bolt creation after your initial testing. I would happily buy in.
-
Did you put the loctite on the inner race and bolt or on the outer race and the carbon frame?
Just to be clear this was a fix for a different frame, not the AM831. It was a similar issue although not the exact same configuration. The bearing was loose in its seat and the lateral sliding caused the rear frame to move excessively. I used the retaining compound to hold the bearing in the frame. Similar to the proposed retainer ring or set screw solutions. However it is not ideal because removing the bearing would be difficult.
-
JJJ let us know if you are moving ahead with bolt creation after your initial testing. I would happily buy in.
I mean, if that works well, shouldn't Haideli buy them and distribute them to all the purchasers so far?
-
I mean, if that works well, shouldn't Haideli buy them and distribute them to all the purchasers so far?
I've suggested it to Eddy ;)
-
I mean, if that works well, shouldn't Haideli buy them and distribute them to all the purchasers so far?
Wishful thinking, and the time it will take for him to facilitate that, god knows. I will gladly accept the parts when they come, but for 30 bucks I will also happily pay to get this bike finished. This is by far the longest most frustrating build I have ever experienced. I am happy to be a BETA customer, but also expect the support for working out issues you could find on the factory floor i.e no real world testing needed.
Right now I am waiting on a thru axle and nut to complete my bike. Emailed Eddy 3 weeks ago about the defective axle that came with my bike and stripped out the nut. Still has yet to be shipped.
-
Back again with some comments on the upper link bearing mount.
On the left, the actual mount, to scale. On the right, the nearest correct way to do it - an elastic retainer ring holding the bearing in its recess.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8443)
This is a suggested (IMHO good) correction for the existing frames, to scale, using a standard pair of 6703 bearings that fit in the recesses for the bolt heads. Needs a new pair of bolts as drawn - I have a mechanic workshop in the neighborhood, and will check if they can do this and for how much. Probably cheaper if I can order a certain number of pairs. A minor issue is the tolerance of the carbon width (approx. 3mm) between the two bearings, and whether the inner race of the new bearing will rub against the carbon. I've ordered a pair of 6703s to experiment with.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8445)
(http://)
Excellent work. The people over at betterbolts.com may be able to make these and not be insane one off prices. I asked them about Turbo Levo bolts late last year and they made them pretty quick. I know, much bigger market but they have the equipment to produce them in titanium alloy - save some grams :)
-
Excellent work. The people over at betterbolts.com may be able to make these and not be insane one off prices. I asked them about Turbo Levo bolts late last year and they made them pretty quick. I know, much bigger market but they have the equipment to produce them in titanium alloy - save some grams :)
The bolts are aluminum!
-
I would avoid titanium for this application. It introduces a stronger metal into the mix and they may cause more issues than it solves inside the aluminum pivot. My two cents…stick with aluminum as it works just fine.
-
I would avoid titanium for this application. It introduces a stronger metal into the mix and they may cause more issues than it solves inside the aluminum pivot. My two cents…stick with aluminum as it works just fine.
Avoid, meh. Mix titanium and aluminum alloy parts all the time in industrial, aerospace, and in my personal bike stuff just out of necessity - like having problems with sheering shock bolts. Especially with this application where the bolt would be longer and loaded but the connection to the upper link would be static thanks to the bearing arrangement. But I agree, aluminum would work just fine. Better bolts just makes titanium bolts for bikes with a fast turnaround, but anybody that can turn or cnc what JJJ figures out in AL would be great.
-
Avoid, meh. Mix titanium and aluminum alloy parts all the time in industrial, aerospace, and in my personal bike stuff just out of necessity - like having problems with sheering shock bolts. Especially with this application where the bolt would be longer and loaded but the connection to the upper link would be static thanks to the bearing arrangement. But I agree, aluminum would work just fine. Better bolts just makes titanium bolts for bikes with a fast turnaround, but anybody that can turn or cnc what JJJ figures out in AL would be great.
Agreed I think we would all take a working solution however we can get at this point.
-
Count me in for any purchase that's potentially a solution.
-
hopefully you guys can help figure out a solution. I'm a IT guy, and have nothing to do with machining or engineering so I'm no help, sorry. If you guys or Haideli can't find a solution, I'd have to send my frame back. Don't really want to deal with a perpetual problem. Was already disappointed I didn't see earlier that their small is actually a medium. Hopefully it works for my 5'4" shorty height. Thanks guys.
-
I generally like this solution but am wondering if it will work if there is not an exact fit. If the space between the bearings (carbon of the rear triangle) is not exactly 3mm won’t it create significant problems in either direction? Can we really count on this measurement to be consistent frame to frame?
-
Back again with some comments on the upper link bearing mount.
On the left, the actual mount, to scale. On the right, the nearest correct way to do it - an elastic retainer ring holding the bearing in its recess.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8443)
This is a suggested (IMHO good) correction for the existing frames, to scale, using a standard pair of 6703 bearings that fit in the recesses for the bolt heads. Needs a new pair of bolts as drawn - I have a mechanic workshop in the neighborhood, and will check if they can do this and for how much. Probably cheaper if I can order a certain number of pairs. A minor issue is the tolerance of the carbon width (approx. 3mm) between the two bearings, and whether the inner race of the new bearing will rub against the carbon. I've ordered a pair of 6703s to experiment with.
(http://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8445)
(http://)
The top one with the elastic retainer ring doesn't make sense to me. It looks like the linkage and the carbon are different shapes on the solution on the right from the original on the left
-
It is different. I think he was saying that this should work well and not require a huge change for Haideli (and the 4 or 5 others???). I don't know how these molds work so could the pockets for the bearing and bolt head be made with an insert that's placed in the mold and maybe not require a new mold?
The third picture is the actual proposed fix using what we have except with another bearing and a new screw.
-
I really think Haideli should be doing something and trying to figure out some sort of solution to all of us that trusted in them to deliver a bike without a problem that will happen eventually. The fact we haven't heard anything, not even a 'sorry, we are looking at this and will figure something out,' doesn't seem very promising.
For those that have it, what are you planning on doing? Ride it as is? Figure out a solution? Wait for Haideli? Try to get your money back somehow? Something else? Just curious what others are thinking.
I'm really not feeling very hopeful about it! Even if the linkage issue is figured out, I still have to figure out the poor shifting problem that it looks like I'm the only one that's currently experiencing.
Guess I need to email Eddy since it doesn't appear he will be addressing the group. And if he doesn't then we should probably all start emailing him. We need to let it be known that we aren't happy and want a solution and if we speak up and all let him know, I would hope they take it more seriously or work on communicating if they are already doing so.
-
Dear All:
First of all, sorry to hear that the problem some customer meet, we are positive to solve it.
Recently we got some email from the groupbuy A order.
Now the new mold have been revised, so the problem not exist for the new orders. so do not worried.
For the flexing of the down triangel, we also got some suggestion from the rider, our engineer also try their best to solve the problem, and hope to find the best way solve it.
And sorry for the late replying, since the Black Friday, we are a little busy, but i will carefully checking all the information and the email we got.
It would be need some time to find the best solution, then back to you guys.
If anyone got the idea, feel free to contact me via email, eddy@haidelibicycle.com
Many thanks.
EDDY
-
I really think Haideli should be doing something and trying to figure out some sort of solution to all of us that trusted in them to deliver a bike without a problem that will happen eventually. The fact we haven't heard anything, not even a 'sorry, we are looking at this and will figure something out,' doesn't seem very promising.
For those that have it, what are you planning on doing? Ride it as is? Figure out a solution? Wait for Haideli? Try to get your money back somehow? Something else? Just curious what others are thinking.
I'm really not feeling very hopeful about it! Even if the linkage issue is figured out, I still have to figure out the poor shifting problem that it looks like I'm the only one that's currently experiencing.
Guess I need to email Eddy since it doesn't appear he will be addressing the group. And if he doesn't then we should probably all start emailing him. We need to let it be known that we aren't happy and want a solution and if we speak up and all let him know, I would hope they take it more seriously or work on communicating if they are already doing so.
What about the shifting problem? I was already inspecting my derailleur hanger and found it is actually a bit to much to the back instead of going down. This also causes shifting problems on my side... Is this the same for you?
-
What about the shifting problem? I was already inspecting my derailleur hanger and found it is actually a bit to much to the back instead of going down. This also causes shifting problems on my side... Is this the same for you?
I think we all have the same hanger. I do too, and have no shifting issues with a Shimano drivetrain.
-
What about the shifting problem? I was already inspecting my derailleur hanger and found it is actually a bit to much to the back instead of going down. This also causes shifting problems on my side... Is this the same for you?
SRAM GX AXS here, no problems with hanger from factory. I have had to straighten it twice since and have ordered two more.
You guys with shifting issues, especially Shimano, take some pictures of from the rear of the bike with it in a gear in the middle of the cassette. If it is is anything like my SLX M7100 the cage might be the problem. First Shimano drivetrain I've had in years and also the last.
-
I found someone willing to make the bolts, a friend and co-founder of Effigear (https://www.effigear.com/en/ (https://www.effigear.com/en/)). They make gearboxes for bikes (and also some bikes), and equip among others the Cavalerie bikes (https://www.cavalerie-bikes.com/home (https://www.cavalerie-bikes.com/home)).
The cost is approx 280 EUR for a small series (up to ~50 bolts), so the more we are, the cheaper. They will even anodize them in black. They could deliver by end January 2022.
I've set up a spreadsheet for those interested. In there, please indicate the D and L dimensions for your frame, to check if these values are consistent. If not, I have another solution.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing)
-
Thank you and great work JJJ. With Eddy’s response a couple posts back and the possibility of a new carbon layup, what do you see as the most effective fix coming from the factory? Bearings on the outside of the rear triangle with the c clip retaining thingy ala Yeti? That seems very doable if the mold can be changed. Would like to hear your thoughts.
BTW. Going to take the bike out today with the 1mm nylon washers to see what it does. Will sign up for bolt buy when I can do the measurements.
-
good work so far, JJJ :) my frame is still on "customs clearance". Once i received it, i will do the measurements.
-
So I had an idea about what the supplier could potentially do. The design could be changed to the Santa Cruz style without changing the molds for the rear triangle. All it would need is the link to be machined in a different way and some custom hardware. With this design everything could be tightened up and the bolt would pivot and not be fixed. Sorry in advance for the shoddy MS paint work. Thoughts?
(https://i.imgur.com/XmbEOMG.png)
-
I put my name on the bolts list. Measurements to come later.
-
I think the new link is best case scenario.
-
I put my name on the bolts list. Measurements to come later.
Same
-
Thank you and great work JJJ. With Eddy’s response a couple posts back and the possibility of a new carbon layup, what do you see as the most effective fix coming from the factory? Bearings on the outside of the rear triangle with the c clip retaining thingy ala Yeti? That seems very doable if the mold can be changed. Would like to hear your thoughts.
BTW. Going to take the bike out today with the 1mm nylon washers to see what it does. Will sign up for bolt buy when I can do the measurements.
I really don't understand why they didn't clone the SC link, with the bearings inside the link and a through-axle. That's probably the best design, but SC use a rather complex axle system (which I didn't reproduce faithfully)... Bearings in the triangle are probably OK, provided they are held on both sides! (Hey, Yeti do that, but because they can't use a through-axle with their weirdo link).
-
I really don't understand why they didn't clone the SC link, with the bearings inside the link and a through-axle.
Point of difference to stop law suits / restriction of trade to other smaller companies?
-
Agreed on putting bearings in the link. May even be some simple ways to do it. Big mistake on their part. That said…… I took the bike out today with the 1mm thick nylon washers on the outside of the carbon of the offending link underneath the aluminum bolt outside lip and it was very solid. There was no noticeable flex and the suspension seemed smooth and responsive. The bolts also did not come loose. There were not any clicking or creaking noises. Bike rode really well.
I think there is a chance that this may work. Bushings have long been used successfully in suspension design. We are all trial and erroring this thing but if the bushings are thin enough to allow the bolts inner sleeve to contact the bearings and thick enough to take up all the slop and provide structure and support to the link, could this not be a fix?
One caveat: I only rode about 16 miles with 2k climbing and descending. No signs that it loosened up or the bushings wore down but how long can a fix like this last? Who knows.
I locktighted the crap out of the bolts and let them sit for a couple days before riding. I also greased the area between the nylon and the aluminum bolts.
For what it’s worth.
-
Where did you get your nylon washer?
-
I got the washer at the hardware store and got to work with some scissors to trim the outer diameter
-
If you look at the current linkage, there is a cutout in the middle which won't allow a single axle, and is likely there to give the shock some clearance. With a piggyback shock I think it's likely necessary. Might not matter for a completely inline shock but I imagine most are running a piggyback.
As for the shifting, all those that say they don't have a problem, does it shift great and you're really happy with it or it's as good as similar drivetrains you've ridden? It couldn't be better? For my setup, the hanger is causing problems. I was a bike mechanic for many years and have taken it to 2 shops/guys that I trust and they couldn't get it better and probably left not quite as good as I brought it in, though that doesn't mean it was good to start.
I'm out of town so it will take a few days but I will post pics showing it's currently out of Sram's specs, and where they say that anything outside of those specs can cause shifting problems. And it might shift ok now, but what happens as things begin to wear? The hanger IS out of specs. If yours shifts ok that's awesome. But mine doesn't and it is a problem for me. And maybe anyone else once the new starts to wear off and things become less precise or maybe not. But I'm surprised no one seems to have an issue with something that Sram says is outside of what 12 speed drivetrains are designed for...
-
I took the bike out today with the 1mm thick nylon washers on the outside of the carbon of the offending link underneath the aluminum bolt outside lip and it was very solid. There was no noticeable flex and the suspension seemed smooth and responsive. The bolts also did not come loose. There were not any clicking or creaking noises. Bike rode really well.
I think there is a chance that this may work. Bushings have long been used successfully in suspension design.
It'll work in the short term, but the bolt will inevitably come loose with the rubbing. The rubbing will increase as the press-fit mount of the bearing degrades.
Bushings are mounted such that any rubbing cannot loosen bolts. This is a traditional bushing mount - you can see that nothing will tend to turn the pink bolt. (My Altitude has this type of pivots.)
-
If you look at the current linkage, there is a cutout in the middle which won't allow a single axle, and is likely there to give the shock some clearance. With a piggyback shock I think it's likely necessary. Might not matter for a completely inline shock but I imagine most are running a piggyback.
That cut out is the first thing that made me doubt about this frame. The stiffness is obviously impacted. There is a similar cutout in the bottom link. Very strange design, because the links are more complex to manufacture than through-axle links. There is no need for such cutouts, even for piggy-back shocks.
-
I found someone willing to make the bolts, a friend and co-founder of Effigear (https://www.effigear.com/en/ (https://www.effigear.com/en/)). They make gearboxes for bikes (and also some bikes), and equip among others the Cavalerie bikes (https://www.cavalerie-bikes.com/home (https://www.cavalerie-bikes.com/home)).
The cost is approx 280 EUR for a small series (up to ~50 bolts), so the more we are, the cheaper. They will even anodize them in black. They could deliver by end January 2022.
I've set up a spreadsheet for those interested. In there, please indicate the D and L dimensions for your frame, to check if these values are consistent. If not, I have another solution.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing)
Those who are interested by the bolts should also buy the pair of 6703-2RS bearings. I've ordered my pair at AE here (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000888332225.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.7e394c4detV4ff). They are cheap, so you can buy them straight away to help fine tune the measurements.
I've updated the spreadsheet, for those who receive their bearings, with a W measure (width of the eyelet with the new bearing installed), so that we can better define the L measure (width of the carbon shoulder in the eyelet). You can then also confirm if the inner race of the new bearing turns without rubbing on that shoulder (indicate this on the spreadsheet).
-
I got the washer at the hardware store and got to work with some scissors to trim the outer diameter
can you get us some pics? and maybe the bolt to reference? i haven't gotten my bike yet so was just trying to prepare. thx
-
Dear all,
I'm also a "lucky" owner of the AM831 frame, I haven't posted yet but I'm trying to follow all the discussions since I haven't really started building the bike. Well let's say that I have now some hesitation to invest more money and time on this bike... :-\
Anyway thank you all for the effort you put into finding a smart fix !
I will complete JJJ spreadsheet as well to participate to the bolts group buy. I just ordered the bearings.
Moreover I hope that Eddy will come back to us with a solution or at least a compensation. You can count me in if you decide to go for a group claim.
Have a nice day,
-
JJJ thank you for your work! I am on the list and will pick up the outer bearings to confirm spacing. Have you done so on your frame yet?
-
Guys, do the L and D measurements differe from bike to bike? due to the size of the bike? j/w for my info...i haven't gotten my frame yet, it's in the mail. thx
-
Guys, do the L and D measurements differe from bike to bike? due to the size of the bike? j/w for my info...i haven't gotten my frame yet, it's in the mail. thx
No they should be the same, but JJJ is trying to account for potential tolerance differences that production may have yielded.
-
I found someone willing to make the bolts, a friend and co-founder of Effigear (https://www.effigear.com/en/ (https://www.effigear.com/en/)). They make gearboxes for bikes (and also some bikes), and equip among others the Cavalerie bikes (https://www.cavalerie-bikes.com/home (https://www.cavalerie-bikes.com/home)).
The cost is approx 280 EUR for a small series (up to ~50 bolts), so the more we are, the cheaper. They will even anodize them in black. They could deliver by end January 2022.
I've set up a spreadsheet for those interested. In there, please indicate the D and L dimensions for your frame, to check if these values are consistent. If not, I have another solution.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing)
Thanks JJJ
I put myself on the list/spreadsheet. I will provide the measurements later.
-
It'll work in the short term, but the bolt will inevitably come loose with the rubbing. The rubbing will increase as the press-fit mount of the bearing degrades.
Bushings are mounted such that any rubbing cannot loosen bolts. This is a traditional bushing mount - you can see that nothing will tend to turn the pink bolt. (My Altitude has this type of pivots.)
[/quote. Thanks JJJ. Aware of the loosening risk (hence the gobs of locktight). I also carried the fat Allen wrench with me on the ride. I put myself on the list for the bolts and will continue to ride this thing to see how long it works for.
-
I found someone willing to make the bolts.
I've set up a spreadsheet for those interested. In there, please indicate the D and L dimensions for your frame, to check if these values are consistent. If not, I have another solution.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing)
I now received a cost estimate and updated the cost in the spreadsheet. With currently 15 potentially interested members, the cost for a pair is at 25.20 EUR (plus shipping).
I see some variations for the diameter D. Slightly bigger than 23mm shouldn't be a problem, because the 6703 bearing is only intended to compensate the axial play. However, I see Rod.GL at 22.8mm - the 6703 bearing will not fit - please double-check.
Also, don't forget to update the "W" dimension, taken between the two bearings if you can. This will confirm the tolerance of the L dimension, which is important for correctly placing the shoulder in the bolt. If there is too much variation in the L dimension, I have another slightly more complex bolt design, with a grub screw in the middle.
-
I now received a cost estimate and updated the cost in the spreadsheet. With currently 15 potentially interested members, the cost for a pair is at 25.20 EUR (plus shipping).
I see some variations for the diameter D. Slightly bigger than 23mm shouldn't be a problem, because the 6703 bearing is only intended to compensate the axial play. However, I see Rod.GL at 22.8mm - the 6703 bearing will not fit - please double-check.
Also, don't forget to update the "W" dimension, taken between the two bearings if you can. This will confirm the tolerance of the L dimension, which is important for correctly placing the shoulder in the bolt. If there is too much variation in the L dimension, I have another slightly more complex bolt design, with a grub screw in the middle.
https://imgur.com/a/8etfikF
Updated measurements in the doc and took a few pictures of the bearings in the frame. Enduro bearings 6703-2RS, perfect fit.
-
Looks good cybrsrce. JJJ I am on the list but have not measured yet as I have my nylon bushings in there and they are working great. No loosening or slop in the pivot after 40 fairly hard trail miles. Lots of jumping and drops last ride without issue. Don’t want to pull the bolts until I have to. I have ordered the bearings though and am going to go for your much more permanent solution. Thanks again!
-
i am in too. but i am still waiting for the frame >:(
-
I added myself to the list. Thanks for all the work JJJ.
-
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing)
Some have indicated they want 2 pairs of bolts in the list - is that correct?
Please also indicate the W measurement for those who have ordered the 6703 bearings, because that one should be accurate for determining the L. The W measurement should be taken between the two bearings and not the face of the eyelet.
-
in my case thats correct. i want 2 pairs of the bolts -> 4 bolts in total. also ordered some bearings yesterday.
-
https://imgur.com/a/8etfikF
Updated measurements in the doc and took a few pictures of the bearings in the frame. Enduro bearings 6703-2RS, perfect fit.
So we're looking at $29 USD'ish for each bolt and two of these bearings to make this right? https://www.locateballbearings.com/enduro-6703-2rs-ball-bearing/
Or is it actually 4 bearings?
And folks are ordering two bolts for backup purposes?
Any word from Heidei about making this right for folks?
Thx.
-
So we're looking at $29 USD'ish for each bolt and two of these bearings to make this right? https://www.locateballbearings.com/enduro-6703-2rs-ball-bearing/
Or is it actually 4 bearings?
And folks are ordering two bolts for backup purposes?
Any word from Heidei about making this right for folks?
Thx.
you need two bolts and two bearings to make this hopefully works. i am only ordering more for backup.
-
So we're looking at $29 USD'ish for each bolt
The cost indicated at the bottom is for the pair of bolts.
two of these bearings to make this right? https://www.locateballbearings.com/enduro-6703-2rs-ball-bearing/
The picture in that link is misleading, the "2RS" version are sealed. You can get them cheaper, they don't need to be premium quality.
Any word from Heidei about making this right for folks?
They are working on a new version of the frame. I've asked Eddy what the new triangle pivots looked like and if they would provide an upgrade kit, but he hasn't answered yet. (In fact, I can't put much pressure on Eddy, because I didn't purchase my frame from Haideli...)
-
I was told the new rear triangle would be finished in a month and that was on Nov 4th. Asked Eddy about it last night and he said they're still working on a fix. I don't know how he can say the new frames are fine when they're still working on a fix. So I would still wouldn't purchase this frame if anyone is still considering it now. Kinda wish I had gone with a lcfs947 so I could actually have a rideable bike right now
Edit- I also joined the bolt buy, thanks for doing all this JJJ.
-
I was told the new rear triangle would be finished in a month and that was on Nov 4th. Asked Eddy about it last night and he said they're still working on a fix. I don't know how he can say the new frames are fine when they're still working on a fix. So I would still wouldn't purchase this frame if anyone is still considering it now. Kinda wish I had gone with a lcfs947 so I could actually have a rideable bike right now
Edit- I also joined the bolt buy, thanks for doing all this JJJ.
My bike is very ridable despite the pivot issue with the nylon spacers in place. It is a great bike...climbs well, fits well and when I get the suspension dialed in will be more than capable going down. I have a ripmo and still feel like this will hold the edge no matter how good I get the suspension working on this AM831 frameset, but that is a well documented strength of the Ripmo and it was reviewed better going down than the Hightower by countless sources.
If we can get this fix via JJJ I think we will have a good v1 bike and if Eddy can get a real fix in place this still seems like a frame that would have a bunch of success.
-
Congrats, I'm glad yours is rideable. As documented in a few threads here. The flex has caused rubbing on my frame and I don't ride since it's already gone through the paint and I don't want it damaging the carbon underneath
-
Mine rides very well with the 1mm nylon spacer/bushing. I am however inspecting multiple times throughout the ride for slop and the bolts coming loose. No reputable company would ever design a bike like this expecting not to have problems eventually. It is going to wear down at some point. Keeping track of miles till failure. We may yet get a solid fix thanks to JJJ but no one should buy this frame until the issue is resolved from the factory. There are too many good options out there to be buying this very flawed frame. They should actually stop selling it until issue is resolved.
-
(https://i.imgur.com/jrbMU78.png)
Looking at the V2 design in the spreadsheet. I am slightly concerned about not supporting the inner race of the inner bearing. Would you consider revising the design to have the circled shoulder at 90° (keep its current position)? This would allow reverting to your original design if necessary by using a custom spacer allowing the inner race to be pinched.
-
Looking at the V2 design in the spreadsheet. I am slightly concerned about not supporting the inner race of the inner bearing. Would you consider revising the design to have the circled shoulder at 90° (keep its current position)? This would allow reverting to your original design if necessary by using a custom spacer allowing the inner race to be pinched.
Hey, I haven't explained that one yet. This version is to be considered when there is too much variation in the L dimension (the carbon shoulder width). In that case we can't design a contact with the inner race of the inner bearing (with a shoulder or tube), because we'd either leave too much clearance around the outer bearing if L is on the shorter side, or break the outer bearing if L is on the wider side.
V2 is more adaptable - you screw the bolt just enough to remove the clearance in the two bearings (finger tight), and then block the bolt by tightening the grub screw. The bearings run smooth and there is no axial play.
In fact I believe we will need V2...
-
JJJ do you have people willing to make version 2 and if so what is the cost? Seems like there is more involved.
-
JJJ do you have people willing to make version 2 and if so what is the cost? Seems like there is more involved.
V2 is the version that's been quoted (and in fact recommended by my contact). The other is cheaper by 0.50 EUR per bolt. I just need to buy the (standard) grub screws apart, but that's peanuts.
-
Looking at the V2 design in the spreadsheet. Would you consider revising the design to have the circled shoulder at 90° (keep its current position)?
I guess that can be done!
-
That would be cool, just leaves the option for a spacer there if needed (hopefully not).
-
That would be cool, just leaves the option for a spacer there if needed (hopefully not).
The spacer would be better, but hard to implement if L varies too much. Ideally, we'd have to provide a set of spacers of widths varying by 0.1mm steps around 3mm.
-
I've ordered a pair of bolts just in case; JJJ your explanation is perfect; My only doubt is the aesthetic result after the upgrade, won't it look like too bulky?
-
It’s gonna stick out a little but not too bad. Honestly at this point does it matter much what it looks like? Bearings are like 4mm thick. Recess in carbon like 2mm. Probably sticking out 4 mm at most with bolts. A solid fix would be amazing.
-
I just got my frame and then found out about this issue after. I have to say I'm really unhappy about it given that I ordered my frame on black Friday, which is long after they were aware that there was a problem. So instead of telling me I would have to wait for the new mold before it would ship, they knowingly shipped me a defective product that they had in stock. I purchased directly through Haideli so I'm going to contact them and see if they will ship me the revised parts.
I did add myself to the spreadsheet just in case, though. My measurement using my crappy caliper between where the two bearings would be was between 3.2-3.3 depending on where I measured.
-
I did add myself to the spreadsheet just in case, though. My measurement using my crappy caliper between where the two bearings would be was between 3.2-3.3 depending on where I measured.
That is the L dimension. The W "between the bearings" is shown on the drawings - I meant that you should measure between the outer faces of the two bearings and not between a bearing on one side and the face of the carbon link on the other.
Anyway, this variable doesn't matter with version 2 of the bolt (the one shown).
Can those of you interested start PM-ing me with your contact information? I'll create a separate mailing list.
-
Can those of you interested start PM-ing me with your contact information? I'll create a separate mailing list.
By "contact information" I also meant your name and address, for shipping.
The batch is due end January. I have provided my PayPal email in the spreadsheet and ask for a 10 EUR down payment to confirm the batch. I guess I will then see your name and address in the PayPal transaction to keep in touch.
-
Hy guys,
I’ve ordered also an am831 frame 2 weeks ago. It will not be shipped till yet. Yesterday I had contact to eddy and somebody from Ali-manufacturing costumer service.
Eddy will be optimistic of a fast solution and the costumer service say the problem is solved. So i’am expected I get an improved triangle or not. To be on a save side I had ordered the Bolts from JJJ also.
Thanks to all the fuzzy guys here, finding such well solutions.
Best regards
Stef
-
The batch is due end January. I have provided my PayPal email in the spreadsheet and ask for a 10 EUR down payment to confirm the batch. I guess I will then see your name and address in the PayPal transaction to keep in touch.
Apparently PayPal doesn't provide the contact information, so I still need those interested to provide their information. You can now use my email address in the spread sheet. I've also put a column in there to follow the down payments.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing)
-
Dear All:
Have a nice day.
Finally we got the solution of the flexing of the frame FS-AM831.
The upgrated of the new mold of triangle, if you need it, contact us.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
We also found that JJJ have the idea of the bolts to solve the problem, really thanks for his help and effort.
But that's would not be our solution and cannot ensure it would be works.
Thanks for all the supporting and understanding.
Feel free to contact me via email.
All the new order would be use the new mold.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
Best regards
Eddy
-
Dear All:
Have a nice day.
Finally we got the solution of the flexing of the frame FS-AM831.
The upgrated of the new mold of triangle, if you need it, contact us.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
We also found that JJJ have the idea of the bolts to solve the problem, really thanks for his help and effort.
But that's would not be our solution and cannot ensure it would be works.
Thanks for all the supporting and understanding.
Feel free to contact me via email.
All the new order would be use the new mold.
Ah, the carbon eyelets with two bearings - similar to my fix ;D
A lower link with through-axle. Better. Yet the link still has a cutout between the eyelets. Can do better without the cutout.
So what is the upgrade policy for the purchasers of the first version?
-
Ah, the carbon eyelets with two bearings - similar to my fix ;D
A lower link with through-axle. Better. Yet the link still has a cutout between the eyelets. Can do better without the cutout.
So what is the upgrade policy for the purchasers of the first version?
Yes, honestly I'd rather have this new mold instead of a aftermarket fix for it. I pm'ed Eddy but might as well make it be known for everyone else too. Thanks all.
-
It will probably take at least 6 months before getting any updated parts out the door so I definitely still want the €30 interim fix (and you all should as well). It doesn't fix the lateral flex of the seatstays like the new triangle but it will give us a more plush/compliant ride while maintaining a good connection to the upper link. After some work I would say mine is pretty tight but that also means it restricts movement being bolt on carbon, having a hell of a time tuning the rear suspension for this frame.
-
Cybrsrce: This is my opinion too.
May there is a big solution from Haideli-bike. But for serurance i will have a interrimsolution for less then 30€ and it will only work when enough people stay together and give JJJ a leg up.
He did a lot of work, and it's not fair to let him down. Just my2cents.
Best regards
-
For sure still going to get the bolts from JJJ too. No way we should leave him hanging with the bill after all the work. Honestly at this point, I really want to see how well it works just because I have been so invested in this problem!
-
Ah, the carbon eyelets with two bearings - similar to my fix ;D
A lower link with through-axle. Better. Yet the link still has a cutout between the eyelets. Can do better without the cutout.
So what is the upgrade policy for the purchasers of the first version?
I lack the knowlede regarding speficics about bearings, bolts, and mechanical engineering in general. But what about ease of service to replace the bearings? Common tools either push the bearing in or out, and I know there are tools that pull (or jank even) the bearings out. How would the bearings from the revised rear triangle be removed? Is there enough space for a tool that pulls bearings out? Because I see that tools that push bearings in and out would not be possible to use here. Maybe I am just overthinking this or simply speak from my ignorance...
-
He did a lot of work, and it's not fair to let him down. Just my2cents.
Yes, I spent a lot of time, but it was fun and instructive. I have not paid anything yet, the guy is a friend and will only request payment when he starts the batch. The expensive part is the time needed the first time for programming and setting up the machine for a batch, and that cost is of course spread over the number of parts in the batch. So the more we are, the cheaper.
Eddy has not clearly responded about offering an official upgrade, and at what price. If they don't make a substantial commercial effort (they should!), the upgrade will not be cheap (as I understand, it would include the rear triangle and also the bottom link, and maybe even the top link, and all the bolts).
-
The Haideli revision looks pretty solid, but I’m hoping to commit to buying a frame (either AM831 or FM1002) in the next month or so and would only be comfortable getting an AM831 after at least one rider builds up the revised frame and can give us a review of their experience.
Hopefully someone receives theirs soon, because I can’t afford to commit without the confidence independent testing would give us.
-
The Haideli revision looks pretty solid, but I’m hoping to commit to buying a frame (either AM831 or FM1002) in the next month or so and would only be comfortable getting an AM831 after at least one rider builds up the revised frame and can give us a review of their experience.
Solid yes, but overkill. Four 6802 bearings on one axle is unnecessary. The design remains wrong, sorry Haideli. There should be two bearings only, held axially in both directions, preferably in the link, and a link with a through-axle.
Note also that some (lateral) flex in the rear triangle is not necessarily wrong (unless it's the bearings shifting in their eyelets!). Such flex only occurs when you tilt the bike, like when cornering. In that situation, the suspension is less effective vertically, and it's the flex of the triangle that gives you the plushness. I've read tests where reviewers complain that some (full suspension) frames are too stiff!
-
Solid yes, but overkill. Four 6802 bearings on one axle is unnecessary. The design remains wrong, sorry Haideli. There should be two bearings only, held axially in both directions, preferably in the link, and a link with a through-axle.
Note also that some (lateral) flex in the rear triangle is not necessarily wrong (unless it's the bearings shifting in their eyelets!). Such flex only occurs when you tilt the bike, like when cornering. In that situation, the suspension is less effective vertically, and it's the flex of the triangle that gives you the plushness. I've read tests where reviewers complain that some (full suspension) frames are too stiff!
I mean, in principle I’m a big fan of overkill. My current main bike has a 38mm 180 fork and 2.8 tires on it. But you make a good point.
I’m attracted to the idea of a VPP frame over another 4-bar like my current bike, but it’s looking like field testing the revised rear triangle/links is going to take too long for me to base my winter build on the 831. That’s too bad, it really seems like it would have obvious advantages over a 4-bar if it’s reliable.
-
I mean, in principle I’m a big fan of overkill. My current main bike has a 38mm 180 fork and 2.8 tires on it. But you make a good point.
I’m attracted to the idea of a VPP frame over another 4-bar like my current bike, but it’s looking like field testing the revised rear triangle/links is going to take too long for me to base my winter build on the 831. That’s too bad, it really seems like it would have obvious advantages over a 4-bar if it’s reliable.
Whoa, that is overkill, but it depends on your riding style, eh? My 831 V1 is pretty reliable so far. I've ridden long gnarly trails and over jumps, here in the Alps, with no issues. My bearings are still holding, which is why I didn't understand people complaining about excessive flex until I looked closer at the design.
-
Whoa, that is overkill, but it depends on your riding style, eh? My 831 V1 is pretty reliable so far. I've ridden long gnarly trails and over jumps, here in the Alps, with no issues. My bearings are still holding, which is why I didn't understand people complaining about excessive flex until I looked closer at the design.
The tighter it is at the link the less I feel the flex. Still feels like the rear is slipping around far more than it should and when I hit a tight berm at speed it can stand me up like a spring. I'm also a heavy somewhat aggressive rider and I move the rear end of the bike around a lot. I don't have a reference point for a frame like this but I've never had this type of feeling before. It feels much more stable than any carbon bike I have ridden when putting down torque, they did really well with the layup for the forces required for their testing rig. Lean the bike to the side though and it gets really awkward.
I guess that is to put it into perspective for people that haven't been in the conversation as long as we have. Big fan of your ingenuity to make this setup better and I can't wait to see how it works out.
I mean, in principle I’m a big fan of overkill. My current main bike has a 38mm 180 fork and 2.8 tires on it. But you make a good point.
Hell, my 831 has a 38mm fork :) I do hope this new triangle design will cut the flex in half but not much more.
-
My washers keeping it rideable but too much flex still. Hard turns flex the tire into the seat and chain stays. Way more movement than my YT.
-
Just messaged eddy regarding the fix of the rear triangle here are the replies, lowkey disappointed, would have rather waited till a proper fix was arranged, before my frame (with the flaw) was shipped, which was last week tuesday.
-
Got the emails, and i will replying sooner, thanks for all the feedbacks.
Thanks
Eddy
-
Order list (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing)
The bolts are pretty cheap now, provided those in the list commit to ordering theirs.
Please commit to your orders with a down payment to my email address indicated in the spreadsheet, and by providing your email and shipping addresses. Either put your information, including your nickname, in the PayPal message, or send me an email.
I am far from having all the contact information and down payments for those in the list. If you are no longer interested, remove yourself from the list so that we can figure out the correct price for those that remain interested.
And don't forget to order your 6703-2RS bearings to see if they fit in the recess.
-
Order list (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing)
The bolts are pretty cheap now, provided those in the list commit to ordering theirs.
Please commit to your orders with a down payment to my email address indicated in the spreadsheet, and by providing your email and shipping addresses. Either put your information, including your nickname, in the PayPal message, or send me an email.
I am far from having all the contact information and down payments for those in the list. If you are no longer interested, remove yourself from the list so that we can figure out the correct price for those that remain interested.
And don't forget to order your 6703-2RS bearings to see if they fit in the recess.
Just sent down payment by the name of Luke Pardi. Thanks again JJJ.
-
I will take care of that tomorrow :) thanks JJJ !
-
Order list (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing)
The bolts are pretty cheap now, provided those in the list commit to ordering theirs.
Please commit to your orders with a down payment to my email address indicated in the spreadsheet, and by providing your email and shipping addresses. Either put your information, including your nickname, in the PayPal message, or send me an email.
I am far from having all the contact information and down payments for those in the list. If you are no longer interested, remove yourself from the list so that we can figure out the correct price for those that remain interested.
And don't forget to order your 6703-2RS bearings to see if they fit in the recess.
Just sent you the down payment. Thank you for taking the Lead JJJ.
-
Down payment sent!
-
So guys i just got an update for the new upgrade triangle
-
So I JUST got my frame, its the old design. What do you guys think the chance of refunding through paypal? or is that a lost cause? This is some bullshit that they would ship the defective triangle, eddy even told me not to worry that they had fixed it and revised the mold.
-
I got that same email. It's ridiculous to have knowingly shipped defective products and then charge $250 for the fix. He should at least make it right for the people that ordered the frame after they were aware of the issue over a month ago. They should have halted shipping at that point until the new mold was finished.
-
I fully agree eddy should have halted the shipping out of the new frames once this issue has been known. Charging us for a fix is simply outrageous. I would understand if we would have to pay to ship, and the fix is provided free of charge. Charging 220usd for the fix is honestly disappointing, noting that he mentioned the frame has been fixed, and we need not worry, 1 month later a "real fix" is issued, but we need to pay for it ....
-
I got that same email. It's ridiculous to have knowingly shipped defective products and then charge $250 for the fix. He should at least make it right for the people that ordered the frame after they were aware of the issue over a month ago. They should have halted shipping at that point until the new mold was finished.
I honestly feel they should honour their 1 year warranty agreement . I mean i don't expect a free rear triangle which is completely understandable but atleast a subsidised cost for the people who have taken a risk with the frame
-
I was told the issue was resolved as well. This frame is defective and should be a free of charge warranty fix 100 percent. Very very shady business dealings. Not sure I even trust the new rear triangle until someone actually uses it. Send more money to the company that basically scammed us?
-
Maybe they did fix the QA issue on the upper link and triangle connection. Also possible that they made layup adjustments on the "standard" triangle for small improvements.
This new rear triangle may just be an upgrade for the hard charging and/or 200lb/90kg+ riders where the standard triangle can't manage the lateral forces.
I don't know, I'm not trying to justify it because most of you know I have one the flexes beyond what I think is optimal. Are we the vocal minority?
Yes, people getting frames right now don't have the beefier design but does it move around like it is barely attached? If you have a wheel and seatpost to throw on and to test that would be interesting to see.
Email says in production and finished in mid January, to me that says starting in April and maybe shipped by June. Add another month for paint. I'd like to be wrong on the timeline and get one before spring.
-
Maybe they did fix the QA issue on the upper link and triangle connection. Also possible that they made layup adjustments on the "standard" triangle for small improvements.
This new rear triangle may just be an upgrade for the hard charging and/or 200lb/90kg+ riders where the standard triangle can't manage the lateral forces.
I don't know, I'm not trying to justify it because most of you know I have one the flexes beyond what I think is optimal. Are we the vocal minority?
Yes, people getting frames right now don't have the beefier design but does it move around like it is barely attached? If you have a wheel and seatpost to throw on and to test that would be interesting to see.
Email says in production and finished in mid January, to me that says starting in April and maybe shipped by June. Add another month for paint. I'd like to be wrong on the timeline and get one before spring.
If the bearings are still pressed in from the inside with no way to retain them,, and there are 2 bolts, one on each side, then there is still a design flaw even if lateral flex is reduced.
It doesn't seem like as many people are having shifting problems, but the derailleur hanger is built outside of Sram's 12 speed design specs. For some it may shift ok now, but I have to think it could be better if within specs. And what will happen once things start to wear? I don't know, but I do know mine doesn't shift worth a....hoot, and no combination of adjustments will make it any better.
I gave the frame a chance and would love it if it worked as intended, but I will not be spending any more money on it when I still don't know if I will have a rideable bike.
-
If the bearings are still pressed in from the inside with no way to retain them,, and there are 2 bolts, one on each side, then there is still a design flaw even if lateral flex is reduced.
It doesn't seem like as many people are having shifting problems, but the derailleur hanger is built outside of Sram's 12 speed design specs. For some it may shift ok now, but I have to think it could be better if within specs. And what will happen once things start to wear? I don't know, but I do know mine doesn't shift worth a....hoot, and no combination of adjustments will make it any better.
I gave the frame a chance and would love it if it worked as intended, but I will not be spending any more money on it when I still don't know if I will have a rideable bike.
Sorry if this sounds ignorant but the new rear triangle has 1 bearing pressed from the inside and one pressed from the outside no ? So its similar like jjj fix for the frame right . Wont that fix the issue
-
No one should be paying a cent for the new triangle including the shipping fee. They sent you a defective item, they should fix it. Lucky I didn't purchase this frame, sounds like a headache.
-
I had buyed the Frame direct from Tideace Official Store. So i'm a lucky one, the frame was not shipped till yet and i got the possibility to get the new one in January. Hopefully the timeline of cybrscre will not became true.
-
Sorry if this sounds ignorant but the new rear triangle has 1 bearing pressed from the inside and one pressed from the outside no ? So its similar like jjj fix for the frame right . Wont that fix the issue
That is apparently the case - the bolt will hold the two bearings against each other, cancelling the play without rubbing. It is however an overkill solution - they should have designed it with a single bearing, but held in the recess with a screw-in ring, à la Yeti SB150.
-
So guys i just got an update for the new upgrade triangle
That is indeed not a reasonable commercial effort... But the Chinese don't have a good reputation in that respect, alas. We've played to save big $, but we lost.
So they haven't changed the links. I wonder what the bottom through-axle design is like.
-
Hy JJJ, maybe i'm one of the first getting the new triangle in Janury. If the the frame reach me, i will give the comunity some detail pics.
-
Sorry if this sounds ignorant but the new rear triangle has 1 bearing pressed from the inside and one pressed from the outside no ? So its similar like jjj fix for the frame right . Wont that fix the issue
I was trying to reply to a post but managed to not get it quoted. He was suggesting that they had made changes to the layup of the carbon to make it stiffer, before this new triangle was designed. I was just trying to say that even if it was stiffer, if nothing was done like the double bearings, there would still be a design flaw. It wasn't about the new triangle. Sorry if that was confusing and I'll try to edit in the missing quote.
-
I was trying to reply to a post but managed to not get it quoted. He was suggesting that they had made changes to the layup of the carbon to make it stiffer, before this new triangle was designed. I was just trying to say that even if it was stiffer, if nothing was done like the double bearings, there would still be a design flaw. It wasn't about the new triangle. Sorry if that was confusing and I'll try to edit in the missing quote.
No worries man . I was just a little confused hahahah . thanks for your clarification
-
I'm trying to stay positive but that's pretty hard at this point.
Has anyone asked about a refund? Just about ready to walk away from all this...
-
If the bearings are still pressed in from the inside with no way to retain them,, and there are 2 bolts, one on each side, then there is still a design flaw even if lateral flex is reduced.
....
I think in the through-hole axis construction with two bearing each side it will be possible to put a thin barrel spaccer between link and first triangle bearing. In this case Link, Axis and inner part of the bearing moving simulary and there shouldn't be any rubbing on the frame.
-
If the bearings are still pressed in from the inside with no way to retain them,, and there are 2 bolts, one on each side, then there is still a design flaw even if lateral flex is reduced.
There are better designs but I wouldn't consider it a flaw. I ended up tapping the upper link and the bolts tighten without washers, that is a QA problem. Do they stay tight? Yes. Do I like that the carbon is a bushing? No. I still ride it 2-3x per week as-is, excessive flex and all.
It doesn't seem like as many people are having shifting problems, but the derailleur hanger is built outside of Sram's 12 speed design specs. For some it may shift ok now, but I have to think it could be better if within specs. And what will happen once things start to wear? I don't know, but I do know mine doesn't shift worth a....hoot, and no combination of adjustments will make it any better.
Yours is, this is most likely a QA issue again. Mine shifts super smooth but I also checked it while building and have had to straighten it twice. I ordered a few extra with the frame and you can grab them from Ali, I wouldn't write it off until you replace it or straightened it if you haven't already. I know, it is money you shouldn't have to spend and you can try to push Eddy to send you a new one.
I gave the frame a chance and would love it if it worked as intended, but I will not be spending any more money on it when I still don't know if I will have a rideable bike.
I paid for the new triangle, I'll be the guinea pig. If it makes the frame great then it is still a bargain at 1/3 the cost of a Hightower CC. If not, I (we) gambled and lost.
-
There are better designs but I wouldn't consider it a flaw. I ended up tapping the upper link and the bolts tighten without washers, that is a QA problem. Do they stay tight? Yes. Do I like that the carbon is a bushing? No. I still ride it 2-3x per week as-is, excessive flex and all.
Yours is, this is most likely a QA issue again. Mine shifts super smooth but I also checked it while building and have had to straighten it twice. I ordered a few extra with the frame and you can grab them from Ali, I wouldn't write it off until you replace it or straightened it if you haven't already. I know, it is money you shouldn't have to spend and you can try to push Eddy to send you a new one.
I paid for the new triangle, I'll be the guinea pig. If it makes the frame great then it is still a bargain at 1/3 the cost of a Hightower CC. If not, I (we) gambled and lost.
Thank you for taking the leap of faith my brother. I've been so worried about ruining the frame with riding it ( heavy rider here) that ive been putting off building my bike so it will be great to see if the fix really solve the issue.
-
Heidei really needs to look at some successful examples of business crisis management. What they're doing is NOT a good example. At the very minimium, they should sponsor JJJ's fix for us AND offer the new triangle at half off. What would be ideal and even better is if the new triangle is sent out for free to those that are still under the 1yr warranty period. Most of these chinese bike frames from aliexpress have a 2yr warranty anyway.
This forum are a dedicated group of buyers who are NOT afraid to try out chinese frames while their friends are all "oh hell no" to chinese frames. That means this group of buyers will be the people that try to persuade their friends to buy frames such as this. This is not good business crisis management. I'm not blaming Eddy directly cus maybe he's just being a spokes person for the company. Their director's and CEO's need to realize that if they want to keep the ball going for sales on the ground, they need to handle this much better.
-
Actually this design flaw bite me in the ass, i broke my collarbone on a berm due to the flex, i usually rip those. Im not a heavy rider 85 kg fully kited. And i was charged the same price for a new rear triangle. I feel this is the worst way to handle this situation.
-
Actually this design flaw bite me in the ass, i broke my collarbone on a berm due to the flex, i usually rip those. Im not a heavy rider 85 kg fully kited. And i was charged the same price for a new rear triangle. I feel this is the worst way to handle this situation.
Wow dude that sucks big time :( If they're in the US, they'd be getting sued for sure. There's still time to right this ship but completely agree, this is a terrible way to do business crisis management. I hope they see your post and that opens their eyes on the dangers of their product as is. I understand it's going to cost them a lot of $ but hey, folks could have spent their hard earned money elsewhere if they knew this kind of circus would happen. Fix the issue correctly and have a brighter future or don't fix the issue correctly and it will be a example that will be used for years to come.
-
Actually this design flaw bite me in the ass, i broke my collarbone on a berm due to the flex, i usually rip those. Im not a heavy rider 85 kg fully kited. And i was charged the same price for a new rear triangle. I feel this is the worst way to handle this situation.
Ooof, that sucks. Can you tell us a some more about how it happened? Just curious if you explain the sensation in a similar way.
What bike did you come from before the 831?
-
My previous bikes are a Polygon Siskiu T8 and a Rocky Mountain Slayer.
I feel the rear is slipping and not following the path that i expected and sometimes i feel the rear tyre under load rubbing in the chainstay. Personally the frame feels nervous for me
-
Finally we got the solution of the flexing of the frame FS-AM831.
The upgrated of the new mold of triangle, if you need it, contact us.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
We also found that JJJ have the idea of the bolts to solve the problem, really thanks for his help and effort.
But that's would not be our solution and cannot ensure it would be works.
Thanks for all the supporting and understanding.
Feel free to contact me via email.
All the new order would be use the new mold.
OK, I'm looking at the bottom link design now. Not fantastic, and the new through-axle "fix" is no better. Duh >:( I really don't understand why they didn't clone the SC links!! OK, maybe, the SC through axles are a little sophisticated with tapered expandable portions...
I need to come up with pictures to explain better. The problem is that the bearings are mounted into eyelets that will flex inward under axial forces. With V1, as the eyelets flex, the bearings are slightly pulled out of their recesses by the bolts. The issue is not dramatic if the clearance between the bearings and the triangle walls is near zero or even negative, meaning you insert the link between the triangle walls with some force. You then rely on the rigidity of the eyelets to keep the clearance near zero under axial forces.
If there is clearance, it will be filled by the eyelet flex and shifting out the bearings upon tightening the bolts. As long as the press-fit force of the bearings remains, any axial play will be subject to a lot of resistance, which is alright.
With V2, there is nothing exerting axial force on the bearings to keep them against a wall. If there is clearance, the link will shift freely from one wall of the triangle to the other. It could be assumed that the clearance is eaten up by tightening the hell out of the through-bolt, causing the chainstays to flex against the link, but this is unlikely, given the very thick carbon in the area... So you better hope there is zero or slightly negative clearance in your case.
-
Hey JJJ, why you can‘t push the inner bearing in the pocket by puting a Spacer in the Gab between Link and Triangle. Than the Bearing can be pushed by the tension of the Axis?
-
Hey JJJ, why you can‘t push the inner bearing in the pocket by puting a Spacer in the Gab between Link and Triangle. Than the Bearing can be pushed by the tension of the Axis?
The problem is that the clearance depends on manufacturing tolerances. Some will have zero, others will have more. So everyone would have to play around with a set of shims of varying thicknesses, whereas such issues can and should be fixed by design.
-
Sure! But fortunately if there is only a tolerance of up to 0,5mm it can be solved by torquing the Axis force more. There should be enough flexibility in the Triangle. This woun’t work in v1 because of the rubbing screw. In Your solution it should also work.
Yes may they should copy the SC Link. But maybe there is a reason why they don’t do we don’t know.
-
OK, I'm looking at the bottom link design now. Not fantastic, and the new through-axle "fix" is no better. Duh >:( I really don't understand why they didn't clone the SC links!! OK, maybe, the SC through axles are a little sophisticated with tapered expandable portions...
This how SC do it. The pink bolt has an expandable head. It is screwed tight pinching the inner races of the bearings against the right carbon stay through the yellow spacer. The outer bearing races are held in opposition in the link. Then the orange tapered bolt is screwed into the pink bolt head, expanding the bolt head in the recess of the left carbon stay. No clearance remains, no matter what the distance was between the two carbon stays.
(https://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8642;image)
I need to come up with pictures to explain better. The problem is that the bearings are mounted into eyelets that will flex inward under axial forces. With V1, as the eyelets flex, the bearings are slightly pulled out of their recesses by the bolts. The issue is not dramatic if the clearance between the bearings and the triangle walls is near zero or even negative, meaning you insert the link between the triangle walls with some force. You then rely on the rigidity of the eyelets to keep the clearance near zero under axial forces.
If there is clearance, it will be filled by the eyelet flex and shifting out the bearings upon tightening the bolts. As long as the press-fit force of the bearings remains, any axial play will be subject to a lot of resistance, which is alright.
Here is the picture. There is a 1mm clearance that is filled on the left side by pushing the bearing out of its recess by tightening the bolt. The bearings will shift in and out of their recesses as the eyelets flex. In fact, the issue is similar to that of the upper link - the bolt heads might end up rubbing against the aluminum if the clearance is big.
(https://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8644;image)
With V2, there is nothing exerting axial force on the bearings to keep them against a wall. If there is clearance, the link will shift freely from one wall of the triangle to the other. It could be assumed that the clearance is eaten up by tightening the hell out of the through-bolt, causing the chainstays to flex against the link, but this is unlikely, given the very thick carbon in the area... So you better hope there is zero or slightly negative clearance in your case.
Here is the picture. Not sure if a clearance in the higher range of the tolerance (like on the left side) can be compensated by pulling the two stays together in that area. And by pulling together the stays with a smaller clearance, the eyelets will flex inward, breaking the parallelism between the bearings. Compensating a large clearance is not guaranteed, but there will be no bolt head rubbing as in v1.
(https://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8646;image)
-
There are better designs but I wouldn't consider it a flaw. I ended up tapping the upper link and the bolts tighten without washers, that is a QA problem. Do they stay tight? Yes. Do I like that the carbon is a bushing? No. I still ride it 2-3x per week as-is, excessive flex and all.
Yours is, this is most likely a QA issue again. Mine shifts super smooth but I also checked it while building and have had to straighten it twice. I ordered a few extra with the frame and you can grab them from Ali, I wouldn't write it off until you replace it or straightened it if you haven't already. I know, it is money you shouldn't have to spend and you can try to push Eddy to send you a new one.
I paid for the new triangle, I'll be the guinea pig. If it makes the frame great then it is still a bargain at 1/3 the cost of a Hightower CC. If not, I (we) gambled and lost.
I guess it depends on your definition of a flaw. Does bad design that introduces flex and frame wear sound better? From an engineering standpoint, it is a flawed design. I don't think you will find many other bikes where the frame and fastener is forced to act as a bearing/bushing as opposed to the actual bearing next to it. And that's just the one pivot.
I have made sure my hanger is straight and replaced it with one of 3 spares I ordered. But they are all the same so I didn't expect much and it did nothing to help. I provided the drawing from Sram and anyone is free to measure theirs to see if it's within spec, but it's not. Looking at the drawing, these hangers have a x=15 and an L=27mm. When 1mm of B screw adjustment can have a large impact on shifting performance, thats a big difference from what the hanger should be. And as Sram states at the bottom of the pic, anything outside of those dimensions can effect shifting performance. If others are OK with it out of spec that's their choice, but it shouldn't be. And a QA issue would be tenths or hundredths of a mm, so the hanger just has the wrong dimensions.
I thought I was buying a working frame and didn't see anything about gambling. It also took more than a year longer for it to be ready and I think most of us assumed they were sorting out these kinds of details. But I guess we all have different expectations when buying something. But could you imagine Santa Cruz releasing this frame to the public?
-
Here is the picture. Not sure if a clearance in the higher range of the tolerance (like on the left side) can be compensated by pulling the two stays together in that area. And by pulling together the stays with a smaller clearance, the eyelets will flex inward, breaking the parallelism between the bearings. Compensating a large clearance is not guaranteed, but there will be no bolt head rubbing as in v1.
(https://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3172.0;attach=8646;image)
I will measure when the frame is arrived, but there are shim washers A2 DIN988 from 0.1 to 1mm 15mm x 21mm … this should work.
-
I thought I was buying a working frame and didn't see anything about gambling. It also took more than a year longer for it to be ready and I think most of us assumed they were sorting out these kinds of details. But I guess we all have different expectations when buying something. But could you imagine Santa Cruz releasing this frame to the public?
Before the frames began to ship we knew about the issue with the fork crown hitting the downtube, already calling in to question the design quality. How is that not taking a gamble? If you haven't noticed, the entire world is behind on delivering products over the past two years, and frame manufacturers pushing back release dates is par for the course, even before covid. This direct to consumer business model is a side hustle for them with the majority of direct to consumer sales going through AliExpres/Baba, but still nothing compared to OEM sales for most of them. THEY AREN'T Santa Cruz! That's why this frame cost you less than $1,000! The quality of the product is debatable (outside of this frame), but you are not going to get the same customer service as a Western brand that values is reputation.
This forum has a few thousand registered accounts and who knows how many are actually active or have bought any frame recently. Compare that to that number of frames sold from all of the pop-up shops on Ali all selling the same frames and showing hundreds of units sold. To think you have some sort of position to make demands because of this forum and group buy is just asinine. With how much so of yall are posting now I would have assumed you did your due diligence about the process and expectations of buying a frame direct from China. You shouldn't have to settle for a defect but that was the risk in jumping in for the cheaper pricing with an untested frame, the first Chinese frame I'm aware to use VPP, from a vendor that wasn't considered to be in the top list to begin with.
I realize yall probably don't want to hear any of that but this thread has become a bunch of Karen's demanding the manager. Instead of crying "poor me, I paid money", why not use your collective numbers to go through the proper channels (payment providers) and try to get results. It's obvious Eddy doesn't read everything here, or even have much say in things, and it's crazy to think they're going to ship these for free worldwide without some pressure.
-
THEY AREN'T Santa Cruz! That's why this frame cost you less than $1,000! The quality of the product is debatable (outside of this frame), but you are not going to get the same customer service as a Western brand that values is reputation.
In summary, as some of us said here, we gambled and lost ;D
-
I guess it depends on your definition of a flaw. Does bad design that introduces flex and frame wear sound better? From an engineering standpoint, it is a flawed design. I don't think you will find many other bikes where the frame and fastener is forced to act as a bearing/bushing as opposed to the actual bearing next to it. And that's just the one pivot.
See now, I have little to no chainstay movement and no frame rub. With the bolts tight my seatstays roll and that is it. Net result is that the rear tire is super unpredictable in flat turns and berms. Carbon layup shortcoming for a force that isn't tested is what I believe is my frame problem. Yeah, bolt on carbon is not optimal but I don't think it will cause a destructive event, I could be wrong. I concede that you are right, it is a flaw - we just have differing degrees of it.
I have made sure my hanger is straight and replaced it with one of 3 spares I ordered. But they are all the same so I didn't expect much and it did nothing to help. I provided the drawing from Sram and anyone is free to measure theirs to see if it's within spec, but it's not. Looking at the drawing, these hangers have a x=15 and an L=27mm. When 1mm of B screw adjustment can have a large impact on shifting performance, thats a big difference from what the hanger should be. And as Sram states at the bottom of the pic, anything outside of those dimensions can effect shifting performance. If others are OK with it out of spec that's their choice, but it shouldn't be. And a QA issue would be tenths or hundredths of a mm, so the hanger just has the wrong dimensions.
I'll have to measure mine, I never though to check those dimensions since it setup in minutes and I've only had to straighten it from me bashing into things. Direct from China QA is stamping them out, giving it an eyeball, and throwing it into a good pile or bad pile so I wouldn't be surprised if they're all just like yours. We made enough noise for the triangle to be redesigned, we can get support together for this as well.
I thought I was buying a working frame and didn't see anything about gambling. It also took more than a year longer for it to be ready and I think most of us assumed they were sorting out these kinds of details. But I guess we all have different expectations when buying something. But could you imagine Santa Cruz releasing this frame to the public?
Unfortunately all of the frames talked about on this site are a gamble. This one more so because it is an unfamiliar design unless the mold maker is the OEM for Santa Cruz. If so shame on them, they have all the IP - steal better... (j/k) The difference between these frames and the ones coming out of the same factories headed to Santa Cruz is that they have their own QA/QC onsite making sure only the best units get shipped.
Don't get me wrong here, I am on your side - the upgraded triangle should be a nominal fee to cover paint and shipping for as many revisions as it takes to get it to a universally accepted level. This is the first frame with issues of the many I've built from various direct vendors and I'm not excited about it, I just except that I roll the dice every time I buy one.
-
I will measure when the frame is arrived, but there are shim washers A2 DIN988 from 0.1 to 1mm 15mm x 21mm … this should work.
There is still another issue with this through-axle design. You can't put a spacer between the inner races of the bearings that can take the pressure of the bolt (unless you take out a bearing to slip in the spacer), so there is a great uncertainty on how tight you can torque the bolt. You can go as far as the flex of the stays and then the eyelets permits. If the stays do flex a bit and there is zero clearance (or you have filled the clearance with shims), you're going to start flexing the eyelets and ruin the bearings.
-
Before the frames began to ship we knew about the issue with the fork crown hitting the downtube, already calling in to question the design quality. How is that not taking a gamble? If you haven't noticed, the entire world is behind on delivering products over the past two years, and frame manufacturers pushing back release dates is par for the course, even before covid. This direct to consumer business model is a side hustle for them with the majority of direct to consumer sales going through AliExpres/Baba, but still nothing compared to OEM sales for most of them. THEY AREN'T Santa Cruz! That's why this frame cost you less than $1,000! The quality of the product is debatable (outside of this frame), but you are not going to get the same customer service as a Western brand that values is reputation.
This forum has a few thousand registered accounts and who knows how many are actually active or have bought any frame recently. Compare that to that number of frames sold from all of the pop-up shops on Ali all selling the same frames and showing hundreds of units sold. To think you have some sort of position to make demands because of this forum and group buy is just asinine. With how much so of yall are posting now I would have assumed you did your due diligence about the process and expectations of buying a frame direct from China. You shouldn't have to settle for a defect but that was the risk in jumping in for the cheaper pricing with an untested frame, the first Chinese frame I'm aware to use VPP, from a vendor that wasn't considered to be in the top list to begin with.
I realize yall probably don't want to hear any of that but this thread has become a bunch of Karen's demanding the manager. Instead of crying "poor me, I paid money", why not use your collective numbers to go through the proper channels (payment providers) and try to get results. It's obvious Eddy doesn't read everything here, or even have much say in things, and it's crazy to think they're going to ship these for free worldwide without some pressure.
"SB130 frame is $4k? It isn't even available in Yeti turquoise."
Over to chinertown.com:
"What is that?! Kinda looks like a Santa Cruz, that is really nice! How much? {throws money at Eddy}"
That was my process for this frame, I didn't even Do My OwN rEsEaRcH!?!?! I am doubling down though (quartering?) and sticking with it!
-
There is still another issue with this through-axle design. You can't put a spacer between the inner races of the bearings that can take the pressure of the bolt (unless you take out a bearing to slip in the spacer), so there is a great uncertainty on how tight you can torque the bolt. You can go as far as the flex of the stays and then the eyelets permits. If the stays do flex a bit and there is zero clearance (or you have filled the clearance with shims), you're going to start flexing the eyelets and ruin the bearings.
Yes JJJ, you are right. In this construction it is not possible to give force over the axis without damage the outer bearings. It must be filled by spacers very correctly. This is the big disadvantage to bearings in the link.
-
Yes JJJ, you are right. In this construction it is not possible to give force over the axis without damage the outer bearings. It must be filled by spacers very correctly. This is the big disadvantage to bearings in the link.
Unless they provide a spacer to go between the bearings, that you would have to slip in by removing one bearing, I would not trust this through-axle design!
-
Yes, i see. I'm nearly sure we have to remove one bearing in the new contruction and fill in a spacer. I will write it to eddy but not beeing to optimistic that it changes anything.
-
I'd written Eddy my idea to eliminate the play between Link and triangle (see my atteched PDF). Maybe it will be worth for something.
-
I'd written Eddy my idea to eliminate the play between Link and triangle (see my atteched PDF). Maybe it will be worth for something.
That seems to be the upper link, which should be alright now with the two bearings in the triangle eyelet. The previous discussions were about the new lower link through-axle design. However you point out that there should be a spacer between the two bearings, or some other means to not crush them when tightening the bolt.
-
I've just sent the 10 eur to JJJ for the bolts; the solution is a patch over but mechanically is brilliant, it should be fine. The Haideli solution is expensive and to me looks not ideal; as stated before the Santa cruz scheme is ideal, I also don't understand why they didn't copy it, normally the chinese are very good in copying.
Concerning the lower link it could be affected by the same problem in theory, but after locking the upper one with the new bolts I think the chances that lateral forces could move the bearings are minimal; what do you think JJJ?
Thanks again for the precious work
-
That seems to be the upper link, which should be alright now with the two bearings in the triangle eyelet. The previous discussions were about the new lower link through-axle design. However you point out that there should be a spacer between the two bearings, or some other means to not crush them when tightening the bolt.
You're right, this is the upper Link. I thinking about, also use a Axel on this, like SC do.
-
Concerning the lower link it could be affected by the same problem in theory, but after locking the upper one with the new bolts I think the chances that lateral forces could move the bearings are minimal; what do you think JJJ?
I don't like that lower link, but I prefer V1 to V2. The lower link V1 is not as bad as the upper link, because the bearings are rigidly coupled to each other in aluminum, and the carbon chain stays are in a region where they will not flex much relative to each other, guaranteeing a substantially constant width in the link area, i.e. the flex won't tend to pull out the bearings from their recesses as much as in the upper link.
-
I don't like that lower link, but I prefer V1 to V2. The lower link V1 is not as bad as the upper link, because the bearings are rigidly coupled to each other in aluminum, and the carbon chain stays are in a region where they will not flex much relative to each other, guaranteeing a substantially constant width in the link area, i.e. the flex won't tend to pull out the bearings from their recesses as much as in the upper link.
That is exactly my idea: in the lower area there is less flex and even less after we will lock the upper; and, as you say, the bearings are in the alluminium so it is much more difficult to move them.
After implementing your mod IMHO the frame should be enough safe and durable. Your solution is an engineering solution, the haideli one is just "houston we have a problem let's make everything bigger just in case"; and is very expensive too.
-
OK, I received my 6703 bearings. Hey, they're so small!
The inner race is not very tall, so my fears of it rubbing against the carbon are unfounded.
Snug fit in the bolt head recess on one side, but harder to insert in the recess on the other side. Most likely the paint needs to be scraped off and then it should be OK, like for those of you who measured slightly less than 23mm diameter.
-
I received my frame and bearings, fit is similar to yours JJJ.
-
I provided the drawing from Sram and anyone is free to measure theirs to see if it's within spec, but it's not. Looking at the drawing, these hangers have a x=15 and an L=27mm.
My L=30.44mm and the X is really hard to gauge even with a straight edge but it is something like 13mm. How much does that X matter when the b screw is properly set? I honestly don't know. SRAM has a new tool that is really easy to use to set the limit, did it once at sag and haven't had to do any AXS trimming for the gears. Looking at the reference specs, all the major brands are L=~30mm and X=7-10mm but I don't know if that considers full suspension.
-
The 830 looks awesome, but I agree with you. From the way the fix was handled, I don't really want to risk an early buy.
-
Hasn't it been around for a while though? I remember looking at it a while ago, looks like it could be a nice ride but it is ugly like a Ripmo (fight me!) It is probably the frame I should have bought.
-
I think it was announced last year. And I remember they sent out some of the smaller frames already. There's a thread on here with a guy who painted his like a yellow Pivot Firebird.
-
Hasn't it been around for a while though? I remember looking at it a while ago, looks like it could be a nice ride but it is ugly like a Ripmo (fight me!) It is probably the frame I should have bought.
I think you’re right, I do remember looking it up a few months ago. I guess I was thrown off by Eddy referring to it as a “new mold.” I was more just thinking about the timing of a new group buy thread for it being posted now.
-
I think it was announced last year. And I remember they sent out some of the smaller frames already. There's a thread on here with a guy who painted his like a yellow Pivot Firebird.
For some reason the search wasn’t bringing it up with any of the keywords I used, but I finally found it.
I guess with all the activity in the threads about the other frames I’m considering, this one being idle for a while made me forget all about it.
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3018.0.html
-
Looks like that yellow frame is the only one I can find anywhere that’s been built up. I can see why it’s mentioned multiple times in that thread as an alternative to the 831, though it does look like only a small sample manufacturing run has been done up to this point.
If it’s available to ship more or less now, and that guy still has no complaints, it’s tempting. I do wish Haideli would make these frames with a little more tire clearance than 2.4, though.
-
If it’s available to ship more or less now, and that guy still has no complaints, it’s tempting. I do wish Haideli would make these frames with a little more tire clearance than 2.4, though.
These frames are made in "open molds" that are shared among several manufacturers, so it doesn't depend on Haideli alone. Same thing for any upgrade - they probably discuss this among themselves so that they are in sync, which takes some time. I bought my frame from Winow Cycles, and they announced that an upgrade is coming, although they didn't say I would get it for free.
-
The 830 looks awesome, but I agree with you. From the way the fix was handled, I don't really want to risk an early buy.
If the frame FS-AM831 got the quality issue, anyone shows the picture we would be positive to solve it.
For the replacement. but for the VPP construction, that the flexing wuld be exsit even the SC frame.
What we can do would be try our best to avoid that, and offer you guys the best price we can offer for the upgraded new triangle.
The price USD220/piece is a reasonable price.
And the mold FS-830 without the same issue.
Thanks for your interesting.
Eddy
-
Actually this design flaw bite me in the ass, i broke my collarbone on a berm due to the flex, i usually rip those. Im not a heavy rider 85 kg fully kited. And i was charged the same price for a new rear triangle. I feel this is the worst way to handle this situation.
Can you please show us what happened, is there any broken for the frame?
We are sorry to hear for the hurts.
-
There's a thread on here with a guy who painted his like a yellow Pivot Firebird.
Yes, because the guy was persuaded it was a clone of the Pivot Firebird. Something that needs to be checked for design flaws - the links look like they can't be made much different than the original, which was not the case for the 831. So maybe ditch the 831 and switch to the 830... or give the 831 to your wife or your kid, if they don't ride hard.
-
If the frame FS-AM831 got the quality issue, anyone shows the picture we would be positive to solve it.
Eddy, all first versions of the 831 frames have the "quality issue" from the start, because the design is flawed. The quality issue is a bearing that is not held in its recess. The bearing is pulled in and out of its recess as the pivot is submitted to axial forces. As long as the press-fit holds, the flaw is not that visible, but eventually the press-fit will fade and the pivot becomes a ball joint.
Plus, the "issue" is not something you can show on a picture, because it's in the behavior of the bike, i.e. it's something you more feel than see. Unless you simply want a picture of the pivot showing that the bearing is not held, but that you know already.
-
Mistakes were made... The Hightower is a bike park bro model and rides great in a straight line. The numbers on this are in between that and a Megatower but the rear has a lot more flex which I'm hoping to solve with the updated triangle.
I shook one Megatower and asked another Megatower owner to do theirs as a test, much stiffer than stock 831. That isn't a fair comparison but nobody rides a Hightower on my local trails. There may be a Bronson or two.
JJJ's update with the outer bearing will provide a super smooth pivot action as well as a better connection because nothing will bind in the motion. Something updated with the beefier triangle, I don't know how it will work without new bolts though so I hope they're included. JJJ - have to keep your contact in the loop, I may need more custom bolts :)
The 830 looks like a Ripmo, maybe a 429 but not so much the Firebird, and is in theory a great rowdy terrain platform. If you have a long chunky rock chute than ends in a tall drop to flat with a high tight berm right after the landing - this frame style is probably better for you.
-
Eddy. 220 dollars is a great price for a crash replacement. If you send me a perfectly functional bike and I crack it by crashing into a big rock, that is on me and I am happy to pay to fix it. If you send me a bike with a clearly documented flaw that is not capable of basic trail riding without modifications then that is on the company. I even emailed you about the issue when you still had the frame. You assured me that my frame was all good with no problems and that the issue was fixed. You may get away with charging for this, but the trust in your company will take a huge hit. Haideli may save a few thousand in the short term by not taking responsibility for their mistake (deception?), but will probably lose in the long run by losing all consumer trust. I understand that you are probably not calling the shots but this is bad bad business. No one should by buying frames from Haideli until they step up and take care of all of us who trusted them with our business.
-
Any Haideli solution won't be cheap, even if they offer the rear triangle free of charge it will cost approx 100$ in shipping. JJJ fix is better on engineering side and cheaper; that's the way to go. unless it turns out (I don t think so) that the 10 mm rear triangle eyelets are too weak and 14 mm is a must.
-
Hasn't it been around for a while though? I remember looking at it a while ago, looks like it could be a nice ride but it is ugly like a Ripmo (fight me!) It is probably the frame I should have bought.
Haideli sell them on Alibaba (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/T1000-29er-mtb-duro-full-suspension_1600379289767.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.14348578ZTqwWv)
I persist that it looks like a Firebird, yet an older version, like here (https://store.pivotcycles.com/en/bike/details/157). The links are arranged the same way, and the geometry is pretty close, with slight variations, such as a steeper seat tube (76°, closer to the latest Firebird version).
Might simply buy this one instead of a triangle upgrade. Looks like the links can't be botched as bad as on the 831...
-
@JJJ what is the latest update on timing for the new pivot hardware?
Thanks,
Luke
-
@JJJ what is the latest update on timing for the new pivot hardware?
It was meant to be end January, I'll check again.
-
Haideli sell them on Alibaba (https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/T1000-29er-mtb-duro-full-suspension_1600379289767.html?spm=a2700.galleryofferlist.normal_offer.d_title.14348578ZTqwWv)
I persist that it looks like a Firebird, yet an older version, like here (https://store.pivotcycles.com/en/bike/details/157). The links are arranged the same way, and the geometry is pretty close, with slight variations, such as a steeper seat tube (76°, closer to the latest Firebird version).
Might simply buy this one instead of a triangle upgrade. Looks like the links can't be botched as bad as on the 831...
Fair enough. I might consider the FM1002 or even the FM1001 since they have a support member between the seat stays. Not that it is a proven fix for the roll experienced with aggressive riding but I've never noticed an issue with a frame that had one.
The 831 was great while riding conservatively in slick/wet conditions this weekend. When you don't push it feels fine so I have hope that new rear will make it better at pace.
-
At first I didn't pay attention to the flex issue, as my bike and many others here were fine, so I was thinking just about few defective ones.
After reading the great JJJ case study I also realize that the design is flawed and all frames potentially will show the flex issue.
JJJ fix is brilliant, Haideli one much less even if they invested in a new mold for rear triangle, obtaining the same result as JJJ on the upper link and maybe making it even worse on the lower; the triangle is beefier but this isn't necessary a good thing.
For sure the problem has to be solved on all frames, even the non flexing ones like mine: as haideli says carbon fiber is an anisotropic material (the paper sheet explanation); unexpected stress in unexpected direction can cause failure even with relatively low force; I would consider the frame dangerous without locking somehow the bearings in the recess.
The big question is if the old triangle section is strong enough after the bearings will be locked in place.
I am still positive that the fix will work and the bike will be a great bike as it is for now; for sure I don't want to invest 300$ in the new triangle or even worse 1000$ in the new haideli model.
We have to accept that we are beta testers of this frame, it's part of the fun too; just I hope at the end I will have a safe and reliable bike.
I am sure everybody isn't riding much due to winter season, but with the coming spring let's keep the community updated about possible failures or defects that this frame could bring.
Merry X-mas to all 831 team! 8)
-
Hy Folks,
i had a nice talk to Eddy and the sellsman from Tideace.
In my case it was possible to stop the delivery of the AM 831 in the last minute. So they will send me a FS 830 Mold instead as soon as possible.
If i reach it, i will have a look on the Link and the bearings. Build it up as fast as possible, to give you a idea of is there some issues or not.
So long merry X-Mas and 've a good ride (currently hopfully more on Ski ;D).
-
In my case it was possible to stop the delivery of the AM 831 in the last minute. So they will send me a FS 830 Mold instead as soon as possible.
If i reach it, i will have a look on the Link and the bearings. Build it up as fast as possible, to give you a idea of is there some issues or not.
I tried to look a the FS830 and asked for internal schematics. There could be an issue too. If you look at the pivots, there is a bolt on the left side, with the bolt head certainly pinching the inner race of a bearing fitted in the link eyelet. The bolt apparently goes right through and screws into a nut at the link eyelet on the right side, which nut probably pinches the inner race of a second bearing. Not sure how this works, because the link eyelet must be free to turn about the nut. In any case, both bearings are apparently pressed into the link eyelets from the left, meaning that they can't stop the link from moving to the right with respect to the frame.
-
I have had bought a lot of shims ;D. But Thank you a lot for you detailed eye on that.
-
I have had bought a lot of shims ;D. But Thank you a lot for you detailed eye on that.
Shims won't fix that, if it's what I suspect...
-
Ok, i understand. I will have a eye on it when I receive the frame, then we maybe will see if there is a issue.
-
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2022-T1000-29er-max-29-2_1600122152845.html?fromMSite=true
Hy JJJ,
There you will see more pictures.
-
Where can i find the instructions / details of the 'fix' You guys are talking about from JJJ?
-
I tried to look a the FS830 and asked for internal schematics. There could be an issue too. If you look at the pivots, there is a bolt on the left side, with the bolt head certainly pinching the inner race of a bearing fitted in the link eyelet. The bolt apparently goes right through and screws into a nut at the link eyelet on the right side, which nut probably pinches the inner race of a second bearing. Not sure how this works, because the link eyelet must be free to turn about the nut. In any case, both bearings are apparently pressed into the link eyelets from the left, meaning that they can't stop the link from moving to the right with respect to the frame.
What are you talking about?
Do you got our mold FS830?
Eddy
-
Hy eddy,
I think he is trying to see eventually issues in Theorie and nothing be sure. If I will receive my mold I will discuss with JJJ with detail pictures and a demounted link. All other theoretical thoughts are not fair.
Best regards
-
Hy eddy,
I think he is trying to see eventually issues in Theorie and nothing be sure. If I will receive my mold I will discuss with JJJ with detail pictures and a demounted link. All other theoretical thoughts are not fair.
Best regards
Thanks.
-
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/2022-T1000-29er-max-29-2_1600122152845.html?fromMSite=true
Hy JJJ,
There you will see more pictures.
That or a similar link is where I got my screenshots. But they don't show the internals of the pivots.
-
That or a similar link is where I got my screenshots. But they don't show the internals of the pivots.
Right, but the resolution is a bit better. It was only for information.
That’s not showing the internals is clear, for that we have to wait. Otherwise you get some schematics from haideli.
-
Right, but the resolution is a bit better. It was only for information.
That’s not showing the internals is clear, for that we have to wait. Otherwise you get some schematics from haideli.
A "bit better" still remains bad. There are not many ways ball bearings can be mounted correctly.
I'm having a tough time asking for the schematics...
-
A "bit better" still remains bad. There are not many ways ball bearings can be mounted correctly.
I'm having a tough time asking for the schematics...
Yes, but it was just the best I could find. No idea whether you even get plans or exploded drawings like with sc. I promise to share the things here as soon as I can provide more information.
-
Here is the exploded view, how pivot had it done:
https://www.upgradebikes.co.uk/files/technical/pivot/Firebird-C-Parts-Schematic.pdf
-
Here is the exploded view, how pivot had it done:
https://www.upgradebikes.co.uk/files/technical/pivot/Firebird-C-Parts-Schematic.pdf
Yes, the correct way, bearing recesses facing outwards, each with a bolt for pinching the inner race of the bearing against the frame body. In the FS830, the left recess faces outward and the right recess inward. Doesn't look good.
-
I tried to look a the FS830 and asked for internal schematics. There could be an issue too. If you look at the pivots, there is a bolt on the left side, with the bolt head certainly pinching the inner race of a bearing fitted in the link eyelet. The bolt apparently goes right through and screws into a nut at the link eyelet on the right side, which nut probably pinches the inner race of a second bearing. Not sure how this works, because the link eyelet must be free to turn about the nut. In any case, both bearings are apparently pressed into the link eyelets from the left, meaning that they can't stop the link from moving to the right with respect to the frame.
So here is a drawing explaining the potential issue. Bolt in pink screwing into a small grey nut on the right. The link is only held laterally by the press-fit force of the bearings. Once that force fades (and it will in this case), the link can shift to the right until the left eyelet contacts the frame body.
Haideli, please prove me wrong showing us your pivot internals!
-
So here is a drawing explaining the potential issue. Bolt in pink screwing into a small grey nut on the right. The link is only held laterally by the press-fit force of the bearings. Once that force fades (and it will in this case), the link can shift to the right until the left eyelet contacts the frame body.
Haideli, please prove me wrong showing us your pivot internals!
An alright design would be this. But it's not obvious from the picture of the left side, where the bolt head has a large diameter, usually meaning it covers the whole bearing to the outer race.
So what is the actual design?
-
JJJ, look to this:
https://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3018.0;attach=7199
Is there a possibility that the bearings are in the frame and not in the link? Unfortunately it’s not showed without the cover.
-
JJJ, look to this:
https://chinertown.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3018.0;attach=7199
Is there a possibility that the bearings are in the frame and not in the link? Unfortunately it’s not showed without the cover.
Does look like the bearings are in the frame there, but then I don't understand the eyelet design - why they are so big, and why the bolt heads are so big.
-
start a new thread gents, we have our hands full with the AM831 in this thread ;)
-
start a new thread gents, we have our hands full with the AM831 in this thread ;)
Yeah, let's continue here: https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3018.45.html
Probably some of the guys can tell us about the links.
-
Merry Christmas.
-
Modified the megatower rear 3d printed mudguard to fit the frame. attached is the file for those still looking for a solution. Used zipties to tie it all together
-
Great threeathan !! Looks good, thank you.
I need advice: I'm looking rear shocks to buy and start building the bike. I'm thinking in the Super Deluxe Ultimate, but I'm not sure if the normal version (with medium rebound and medium compression) or a specific version for Santa Cruz (with low rebound and low compression) will be better. I don't know if the suspension geometry of our frame is exactly the same as the Hightower or has different kinematics. Can anyone shed light on this matter? Weight 80kg (176Lb) without clothing.
-
I need advice: I'm looking rear shocks to buy and start building the bike. I'm thinking in the Super Deluxe Ultimate, but I'm not sure if the normal version (with medium rebound and medium compression) or a specific version for Santa Cruz (with low rebound and low compression) will be better. I don't know if the suspension geometry of our frame is exactly the same as the Hightower or has different kinematics. Can anyone shed light on this matter? Weight 80kg (176Lb) without clothing.
I have the M/M tune Super Deluxe Ultimate and I had a rough time getting it to an acceptable setup. Standard can with enough psi for me to hit the low 30s in sag was like riding a hardtail. Removed the 2 tokens that are installed from the factory, same sag, and it was still really stiff but linear - might be good for a sub 100kg rider. Let it sag between 35-40% and it was hard to start, mid a little too soft, and stiff again at the end - oh and a pedal strike on every rotation. Added MegNeg to try and get it to be more supple on the initial stroke and more mid support. It works to a degree but it still isn't quite where I want it. No bottom out issues like the L/L tune complaints of the Hightower so there is that.
Depends on what you ride, I'm looking for balance but mostly ground hugging traction and less pop and playfulness. If your trails are more rock than dirt (like mine attached) it might take a lot of tinkering to strike a good balance. I have some settings in my build thread for reference - http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3445.msg33138.html#msg33138
-
Is there also of this version, a more xc trail oriented frame like the tallboy idee?
-
Thank you for sharing your experience, cybrsrce, very useful. I'm still hesitating, but maybe I'm leaning towards the option of trying the Santa Cruz low/low version.
Beaux009, I do not know a similar one with less travel, let's see what others tell you.
-
There are some complaints from SC owners about the stock Low tunes that come with their bikes but I suspect it will be better than the standard aftermarket Mediums.
When DVO’s new Topaz T3 with the sideways piggyback becomes available (or the Suntour TriAir equivalent which also has a sideways piggyback), that may be the ideal for this frame. The stock DVO tune is pretty close to most other companies’ Low tunes but a little more supportive and with a very tunable air spring curve.
-
Hi, has anyone found a way to quieten the rear cable routing hole through the rear triangle? I used foam for the front triangle so no rattling there, but on trails I can definitely hear the rear cables rattling around in the rear triangle since there are no rubber boots at the cable routing entry.
-
The holes on mine were fairly over sized and I was able to take an inch or so of black tubing and put a split lengthwise. Then slid it over the cable and pushed it into the hole, slice down. I think it was black aquarium air line tubing, but can find out the size if anyone wants. Can also probably take an old intertube and cut a piece and wrap around until it's the right size and push it all in. But will probably have to unhook the back end so you can pull about a half inch forward and push the entire wrapped section backwards.
Or get something like Sugru or even a blob of silicone caulk...
-
One of the local guys just got the frame.
There is a noticeable lateral play in the lower link right out of the box.
https://youtu.be/Ycd_FM7ztgM
Don't even know what say.
I mean, in total there are issues with upper linkage, lower linkage and rear triangle, lower linkage and front triangle...
-
One of the local guys just got the frame.
There is a noticeable lateral play in the lower link right out of the box.
https://youtu.be/Ycd_FM7ztgM
Don't even know what say.
I mean, in total there are issues with upper linkage, lower linkage and rear triangle, lower linkage and front triangle...
Are there metal shims between the link and the frame like in the original design. What actually presses/tensions the two sides of the link to the frame now?
-
One of the local guys just got the frame.
There is a noticeable lateral play in the lower link right out of the box.
https://youtu.be/Ycd_FM7ztgM
Don't even know what say.
I mean, in total there are issues with upper linkage, lower linkage and rear triangle, lower linkage and front triangle...
Yeah, that pivot between lower link and frame is not of great design (yet better than the pivots of the upper link), and the pivot in the new version between the lower link and the rear triangle is going to be the same, duh... In principle, if you tighten the bolt real hard, you could make the carbon flex to compensate the clearance, but that is difficult in that area, and you could crush the bearings if you go too far. In my frame, the shims fit pretty snugly, and there is no play. I suggest you add shims to the existing ones. The inner diameter is 12mm.
-
That's not my frame but it is the first one locally, afaik. Usually when someone buys chinese frame some issues are expected, though there are quite a few different chinese XC frames around and I've never heard of so many issues with them as with 831.
We have a good mechanic who works with all kinds of stuff and this frame should be going directly to him for fixes and improvements. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks and how the build is going to go in general.
As for me, I'm waiting for more info on fs830, hope Eddy will come up with answers and photos.
-
As for me, I'm waiting for more info on fs830, hope Eddy will come up with answers and photos.
[/quote]
What kind information you need for FS830? Let's me know, thanks.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
-
What kind information you need for FS830? Let's me know, thanks.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
The questions were asked in this thread http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3522.msg33222.html#msg33222
See that last post from JJJ and I'm pretty sure that it's not only me who would like to see detailed photos of pivots and linkages.
Thanks.
-
That's not my frame but it is the first one locally, afaik. Usually when someone buys chinese frame some issues are expected, though there are quite a few different chinese XC frames around and I've never heard of so many issues with them as with 831.
We have a good mechanic who works with all kinds of stuff and this frame should be going directly to him for fixes and improvements. It would be interesting to hear what he thinks and how the build is going to go in general.
As for me, I'm waiting for more info on fs830, hope Eddy will come up with answers and photos.
Pure conjecture - the 830 rear triangle does not have a support between the seat stays and is going to flex as bad, maybe worse, than the 831 for heavier and hard pushing riders. You can make the connections tight with washers or shims, make them move better with additional bearings, but roll on that axis is going to happen. Look at the FM1001/FM1002 for a design that shouldn't have excessive flex.
-
It's actually mind boggling how people could still want frames from heideli after everything that's happened and eddies blatant lies to sell more problematic frames. He's on this site everyday around 6pm pst, like clockwork. He sees the questions but clearly is avoiding them as he does with emails he doesn't want to answer. offer to buy something from the site and see how quickly he responds to that.
If you don't know what I'm talking about, read through this thread and the link below.
https://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3539.15.html
Edit- I'm still all for removing him from this forum.
-
Pure conjecture - the 830 rear triangle does not have a support between the seat stays and is going to flex as bad, maybe worse, than the 831 for heavier and hard pushing riders.
I‘m nearly sure that pivot also didn’t implemented a support between the seat stays on the first firebird 29 and this frame was tested as a slightly to stiff one. So i guess it don‘t depends on this support bridge.
-
Pure conjecture - the 830 rear triangle does not have a support between the seat stays and is going to flex as bad, maybe worse, than the 831 for heavier and hard pushing riders. You can make the connections tight with washers or shims, make them move better with additional bearings, but roll on that axis is going to happen. Look at the FM1001/FM1002 for a design that shouldn't have excessive flex.
In the 830, there is a solid connection between the vertical stays at the lower link level, like in the Pivot Firebird. This connection is higher than in the 831, which probably makes the triangle stiffer. Hey, the 830 is an Enduro, while the 831 is an AM.
-
Edit- I'm still all for removing him from this forum.
Whilst I completely understand this sentiment, it probably wouldn't do much to help the numerous other members of this forum that are trying to get Haideli to step up and do the right thing.
-
Whilst I completely understand this sentiment, it probably wouldn't do much to help the numerous other members of this forum that are trying to get Haideli to step up and do the right thing.
Yea I hear ya, that makes sense. I truely hope he does/they do.
I was just thinking if he's willing to lie to sell a couple extra frames , how can we trust what he says from this point forward .
-
Yea I hear ya, that makes sense. I truely hope he does/they do.
I was just thinking if he's willing to lie to sell a couple extra frames , how can we trust what he says from this point forward .
In my case, there wasn‘t a idea of Eddy selling me fast a frame and beyond him the hell. I asked him directly the triangle will be fixed or not. He told me that the producing of improved triangle will took minimum jan 17th. They stopped my deliv. till this date. Now i’m changing the frame Model and this also wasn’t a problem. How it was worth i will see in a few days hopefully. In my case i can not see any bad methods.
Otherwise, if i understand right, cybrsrce rides the frame intensive with only a Teflonshrim fixing. If you want a „no worrys frame“ maybe it’s better to order a SC Hightower frame, isn‘t it?
-
In my case, there wasn‘t a idea of Eddy selling fast a frame and beyond him the hell. I ask him directly the triangle will be fixed or not. He told me that the producing of improved triangle will take minimum jan 17th. They stopped my deliv. till this date. Now i’m changing the frame Model and this also wasn’t a problem. How it was worth i will see in a few days hopefully. In my case i can not see any bad methods.
Otherwise, if i understand right, cybrsrce rides the frame intensive with only a Teflonshrim fixing. If you want a „no worrys frame“ maybe it’s better to order a SC Hightower frame, isn‘t it?
Did you switch to an 830?
-
Did you switch to an 830?
Yes i did, the delivery passes Import clearance two days ago, so hopefully i will get it soon.
-
Yes i did, the delivery passes Import clearance two days ago, so hopefully i will get it soon.
Please make sure you keep an eye on / update the 830 thread. There are a number of guys asking Eddie questions on there that he just isn't answering. With bare frame in hand you might be able to provide photos or answers to their questions.
-
Please make sure you keep an eye on / update the 830 thread. There are a number of guys asking Eddie questions on there that he just isn't answering. With bare frame in hand you might be able to provide photos or answers to their questions.
I‘ll open a thread when the frame is delivered and you can ask the questions. I will answer as well as possible for me.
Unfortunately i‘m away for business nxt week. So please don’t be in hurry for that.
-
In my case, there wasn‘t a idea of Eddy selling me fast a frame and beyond him the hell. I asked him directly the triangle will be fixed or not. He told me that the producing of improved triangle will took minimum jan 17th. They stopped my deliv. till this date. Now i’m changing the frame Model and this also wasn’t a problem. How it was worth i will see in a few days hopefully. In my case i can not see any bad methods.
Yea you got lucky but if you read the thread there have been more than a couple people who did purchase their frame after he stated it was already fixed snd yet they received the same thing the rest of us did.
Otherwise, if i understand right, cybrsrce rides the frame intensive with only a Teflonshrim fixing. If you want a „no worrys frame“ maybe it’s better to order a SC Hightower frame, isn‘t it?
No, it's not necessary to go to SC and buy a $3500 frame. There are other companies that are selling "no worrys frame" straight from China. Heideli is just not one of them.
-
No, it's not necessary to go to SC and buy a $3500 frame. There are other companies that are selling "no worrys frame" straight from China. Heideli is just not one of them.
Haideli is not to take the blame alone - several retailers are using the same "open mold" and all those retailers have the issue to deal with. I bought mine from Winow Cycles, same problem. So it's the provider of the "open mold" that should take the blame.
-
Haideli is not to take the blame alone - several retailers are using the same "open mold" and all those retailers have the issue to deal with. I bought mine from Winow Cycles, same problem. So it's the provider of the "open mold" that should take the blame.
We may even be able to thank Eddy for taking our feedback to the frame/mold designer to redesign the rear triangle. I don't know who else would have given them that input.
-
i just got one frame of fisrt revision from ali
video with play between lower rocker and fromt triangle was filmed by me
i made detailed photos of frame (in Ukrainian. but google translate may handle it)
i would not upload photos here as i have to log into this forum via vpn (and incognito mode), cause my isp ip is banned here
link to catalog with just plain photos (https://catalog.alibuy.biz/product/fs831-29-150mm/)
link to article (https://alibuy.biz/2022/01/03/fm-fs831/)
from my poi there are 2 problems with this frame
bearing size
price
everything else will be fixed (we are lucky to have super mechanic, thaw will just made needed upgrades)
-
We may even be able to thank Eddy for taking our feedback to the frame/mold designer to redesign the rear triangle. I don't know who else would have given them that input.
Eddy was the most aggressive marketer so not surprised he is dealing with the most customer complaints.
-
Haideli is not to take the blame alone - several retailers are using the same "open mold" and all those retailers have the issue to deal with. I bought mine from Winow Cycles, same problem. So it's the provider of the "open mold" that should take the blame.
I'm not blaming heideli for the frame. I'm blaming them for the way they've handling the situation and for lying about the frame being fixed before it actually had been. I can only blame them since that's who I've purchased from and what I experienced.
If you want to share your experience with winow since it seems they've done the same thing, then please go ahead. I already dont trust tantan/winow/seraph because they have provided fake tracking numbers to me in the past (amongst other things) rather than being open and honest about their delays. Which I would completely understand and accept had then been forthright.
-
While waiting spring and JJJ holy fix, I can show you my frame protector made with aliexpress orange kydex and sticked with biadhesive tape. I am still wondering if it is the case to drill a drain hole at the bottom or not.
-
Good look on the Kydex. I made mine a bit wider and wrapper it around the edges of the down tube. I also did a small drain hole after hearing of someone with black mold in their tubes (not this frame).
-
I am wondering if this frame VPP style suggested in another thread has or not the flex problem.... maybe no as the bolts are through hole tightened on both sides.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003408574330.html?srcSns=sns_SMS&spreadType=socialShare&bizType=ProductDetail&social_params=20360589690&aff_fcid=996edf7f900e426ba3b0195fc7b31dcd-1642661302998-08924-_mPwu4ts&tt=MG&aff_fsk=_mPwu4ts&aff_platform=default&sk=_mPwu4ts&aff_trace_key=996edf7f900e426ba3b0195fc7b31dcd-1642661302998-08924-_mPwu4ts&shareId=20360589690&businessType=ProductDetail&platform=AE&terminal_id=2d45dc49cf4542a9946f615ac8185421&afSmartRedirect=n
-
That doesn't look like a VPP frame to me. It doesn't have counter-rotating links.
-
Fair Warning. Ive had my share of liars and cheats in my dealings domestically and overseas. But I have never experienced a more deceitful dealing than with Eddy and haidelibicycle. I placed an order for an 831 frame early December. But after reading all the negative reviews I quickly switched to the 830 frame. I was assured the size I needed was in stock and the frame will be painted shortly. After nearly 7 weeks of stalling (frame is being painted .....) I threatened to dispute the payment with paypal unless I received a shipment tracking for my address. All of a sudden, someone made a mistake and only a black frame was available in my size. I repeatedly asked to cancel the order and be refunded. "Oh since you waited, we will send you a gift..." bull$it. Finally, said in no uncertain terms, I was done with haidelibicycle and no longer want anything to do with them. Eddy said refund was on the way. Guess what no such refund or any acknowledgment. I did file a dispute with paypal and provided the 10 pages of correspondence with Eddy (or whatever is his real name). I dont know what will become of my payment. Disregard this warning at you own expense.
-
This is bad :-(
14 month ago, i ordered a carbonda frame (FM936), then i changed my mind and switched to another (FM1001) then i changed my mind again (for a custom titanium softail) and canceled the order (yes I am the worst client ever). Carbonda accepted to refund me 100%.
Now, I know that I can trust them and would be 100% confident in buying them a frame in the future.
So bad Heideli is not as reliable as some others. They focus on short term profitability...
-
I am wondering if this frame VPP style suggested in another thread has or not the flex problem.... maybe no as the bolts are through hole tightened on both sides.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005003408574330.html?srcSns=sns_SMS&spreadType=socialShare&bizType=ProductDetail&social_params=20360589690&aff_fcid=996edf7f900e426ba3b0195fc7b31dcd-1642661302998-08924-_mPwu4ts&tt=MG&aff_fsk=_mPwu4ts&aff_platform=default&sk=_mPwu4ts&aff_trace_key=996edf7f900e426ba3b0195fc7b31dcd-1642661302998-08924-_mPwu4ts&shareId=20360589690&businessType=ProductDetail&platform=AE&terminal_id=2d45dc49cf4542a9946f615ac8185421&afSmartRedirect=n
You have to see how the bearings are mounted. Can't see on that picture.
-
To my surprise the updated version of the rear triangle showed up today. I did not expect that for a few more months.
-
To my surprise the updated version of the rear triangle showed up today. I did not expect that for a few more months.
Definitely interested to hear how it compares to the original for you.
-
This is bad :-(
14 month ago, i ordered a carbonda frame (FM936), then i changed my mind and switched to another (FM1001) then i changed my mind again (for a custom titanium softail) and canceled the order (yes I am the worst client ever). Carbonda accepted to refund me 100%.
Now, I know that I can trust them and would be 100% confident in buying them a frame in the future.
So bad Heideli is not as reliable as some others. They focus on short term profitability...
Lightcarbon and Carbonda are the ones I entrust for my carbon frame needs. Dengfu seems to be alright too.
-
To my surprise the updated version of the rear triangle showed up today. I did not expect that for a few more months.
Free replacement or paid?
-
Free replacement or paid?
Paid. $270USD painted (I chose the wrong color) and shipped.
-
Paid. $270USD painted (I chose the wrong color) and shipped.
Was the frame originally painted and you told them the wrong one for the replacement or where you trying for something different and got the wrong one?
-
Was the frame originally painted and you told them the wrong one for the replacement or where you trying for something different and got the wrong one?
I got a custom color on the original frame. I didn't think the stock gray was that different and I though it would be neat to be a slightly different shade, plus it would ship quicker. I was wrong, it is sooooo much lighter.
-
To my surprise the updated version of the rear triangle showed up today. I did not expect that for a few more months.
How are the two bearings mounted in the eyelets, in terms of how the axial clearance is cancelled?
-
Painting and shipping were included? Thats good news.
-
How are the two bearings mounted in the eyelets, in terms of how the axial clearance is cancelled?
Metal washer I believe.
-
Painting and shipping were included? Thats good news.
Nah, I meant that as total price. It was $220 for just the bare triangle, $20 for paint, and $30 for the cheapest shipping. Shipping may be a little cheaper right now or they'll just upgrade it for the same price, ended up getting here via UPS.
-
Metal washer I believe.
Ah, good!
I believe you are keeping the bottom link. Let us know how the axial clearance in the pivot between the bottom link and the new triangle is handled. Do you get a set of washers of different thicknesses? Is there a torque spec on the through-bolt?
-
Ah, good!
I believe you are keeping the bottom link. Let us know how the axial clearance in the pivot between the bottom link and the new triangle is handled. Do you get a set of washers of different thicknesses? Is there a torque spec on the through-bolt?
New upper link bolts with .5mm shims, no torque specs on the bolts.
Lower link stays the same, only change is the new through bolt. Also no torque specs.
Haven't taken any measurements yet but I'm hoping that doesn't need any washers with that new bottom bolt.
Some more angles of what is included.
Triangle glamor shot gallery. (https://imgur.com/a/OEzvh2G)
-
V 2.1 perhaps?
US $976.80 12%OFF | Carbon Full Suspension All Mountain Bicycle Frame 29er Travel 150mm VPP AM Bike Carbon Frame Boost 12x148mm Carbon MTB Frame 29
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrl4pm0
-
That does not have the thru axle bottom pivot, but does appear to have the updated top links and a different looking upper link.
-
kinda different front triangle as well...got some threaded BB perhaps...though I Prefer the cable routing of the v1..
-
I quite like the changes to the front triangle on this one and the threaded bb. The geo on this is not exactly like the hightower like they stated the AM831 is , but it is pretty damn close.
-
kinda different front triangle as well...got some threaded BB perhaps...though I Prefer the cable routing of the v1..
It looks like they did their own take on it. Different shock mounting size, brake mount size, head tube doesn't angle down, threaded bb, sizes are different at quick glance. They have the shock silhouette with the can at the back, I wonder if this one can fit a coil or Float X2?
-
Definitely looks like it could be a more refined version, and they got rid of that top tube kink, nice. But to expensive for a chiner..
-
Definitely looks like a more refined version, and they got rid of that top tube kink, nice. But to expensive for a chiner..
True, an alloy frame from a few brands are about the same price when you add a shock. If you do a lot of tech climbing and are considering carbon for weight savings $1000 seems to be the new mold pricing when shipped.
-
Looks like they got rid of the weird pyramid thing on the seat tube as well.
-
This version looks so, so much better. If it’s fixed the link/bearing issues, it’ll sell like gangbusters. Somebody will have to be the crash test dummy and be the first to put it through its paces though to prove that….
-
They just need to rid it of those lame BXT logos.
-
You can get it with no logos
-
The bolt on dropouts in this version on both sides are a bit of an odd design choice, since it’s unlikely anyone will want anything other than a 12x148 axle…I wonder what that’s about.
-
Threaded bottom bracket, shorter seat tube, and no kink in the top tube? I'm jealous. Wish this was the original.
-
Let's remember this is a BXT. I built up a BXT hardtail for my boy which has now been moved on as he outgrew it. I was happy with the quality of the finish, except for the finish of the access plate under the bb. The frame was durable enough to cope with everything he threw at it and I would happily buy another BXT BUT there are loads of people that claim after sales service is non existent. I didn't find this when I contacted them about the access plate, they asked for pics but in the end I decided not to do anything about it as the issue was only minor and easily dealt with.
Also, could probably be best served in it's thread as it isn't the same as what Eddy is flogging.
-
V 2.1 perhaps?
US $976.80 12%OFF | Carbon Full Suspension All Mountain Bicycle Frame 29er Travel 150mm VPP AM Bike Carbon Frame Boost 12x148mm Carbon MTB Frame 29
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mrl4pm0
Uh, the cables are routed outside under the bottom bracket. That sucks.
And the chain stays are a tad too long.
-
Uh, the cables are routed outside under the bottom bracket. That sucks.
I've worked at a Rocky shop for the last 7 years that sells out of Rocky Mountain full suspension bikes every year - and we order as many as we are allowed.
I can tell you this is in reality a non-issue.
-
I found someone willing to make the bolts, a friend and co-founder of Effigear (https://www.effigear.com/en/ (https://www.effigear.com/en/)). They make gearboxes for bikes (and also some bikes), and equip among others the Cavalerie bikes (https://www.cavalerie-bikes.com/home (https://www.cavalerie-bikes.com/home)).
The cost is approx 280 EUR for a small series (up to ~50 bolts), so the more we are, the cheaper. They will even anodize them in black. They could deliver by end January 2022.
I've set up a spreadsheet for those interested. In there, please indicate the D and L dimensions for your frame, to check if these values are consistent. If not, I have another solution.
Hi JJJ am I to late to order the bolts??
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit?usp=sharing)
-
Hi to all , I'm new to the forum and this thread , In fact it was this thread that lead me to join the forum but unfortunately I discovered this thread two weeks after I received my 831 frame and so you know the problems i have found whilst building and riding my new frame , I bought the frame from the Tideace store on Ali express. I to was told i was getting the upgraded version but received the unmoded one , Then found the fork issue and was told that is no problem no one else has complained and the fork wont be in that position in normal use so i filed a dispute with Ali express and got £158.00 refund
I'm now trying to deal with the flex problem and have been offered the modified rear triangle and bolt for $220 plus shipping and paint which with the money I got refunded works out ok I guess
In the meantime I have contacted JJJ to see if i can join in on the bolt order as a fix for now, Thanks to all the people who have been working on a solution for the rear triangle problem , Cheers, Promoto
-
Hi to all , I'm new to the forum and this thread , In fact it was this thread that lead me to join the forum but unfortunately I discovered this thread two weeks after I received my 831 frame and so you know the problems i have found whilst building and riding my new frame , I bought the frame from the Tideace store on Ali express. I to was told i was getting the upgraded version but received the unmoded one , Then found the fork issue and was told that is no problem no one else has complained and the fork wont be in that position in normal use so i filed a dispute with Ali express and got £158.00 refund
I'm now trying to deal with the flex problem and have been offered the modified rear triangle and bolt for $220 plus shipping and paint which with the money I got refunded works out ok I guess
In the meantime I have contacted JJJ to see if i can join in on the bolt order as a fix for now, Thanks to all the people who have been working on a solution for the rear triangle problem , Cheers, Promoto
There were some people in the bolt buy that have sold their frames. If none are available, and JJJ didn't have any extra run, I ordered two sets and I can drop down to one. Bolts haven't shipped yet so there may be options.
-
In the meantime I have contacted JJJ to see if i can join in on the bolt order as a fix for now, Thanks to all the people who have been working on a solution for the rear triangle problem , Cheers, Promoto
I believe we can still add a pair, since the final production has not started. Hopefully we'll get them going this week.
-
Thanks cybrsrce but sounds like I have just scraped into the order , Thanks JJJ I will order some bearings
-
I've just ordered my new rear triangle, I was told its in stock and ready to paint and ship we will see , I ve had all this before when I tried to import suspension frames back in the 90's from Taiwan
has any one ridden the new rear end yet ? would be interesting to know how it performs
-
I believe we can still add a pair, since the final production has not started. Hopefully we'll get them going this week.
If not too late JJJ, could you please link me up with that spreadsheet? I haven't decided what to do, ride it or not get the new triangle or not. :(
-
Just back for working from CNY holiday.
Sorry that is i missed any news and email.
Thanks for supporting.
Now both order would be shipped new Triangle.
And we got TIDEACE decal done.
Attached picture.
Thanks
EDDY
-
So anyone that has bought and installed the new rear triangle, and if so does it fix the issues?
-
I’d like to get in on the hardware fix also.
-
I’d like to get in on the hardware fix also.
Still possible, hurry. Details here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit#gid=0
-
Still possible, hurry. Details here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit#gid=0
How do I pay you?
-
Ride it its not that bad, The mane issue is the bearings moving in and out of the seat stays when that is fixed its just the flex in the seat stays.
I had a Foes AM frame that flexed the same and I didn't notice until I followed a buddy who was riding my bike , I checked it over thinking the bearing had worn out and found it to be flex in the rear triangle, I rode that bike for years and it was never a problem
-
Ride it its not that bad, The mane issue is the bearings moving in and out of the seat stays when that is fixed its just the flex in the seat stays.
I had a Foes AM frame that flexed the same and I didn't notice until I followed a buddy who was riding my bike , I checked it over thinking the bearing had worn out and found it to be flex in the rear triangle, I rode that bike for years and it was never a problem
Thank you! I don't believe many others understand, or are aware of, the two distinct issues.
-
Any one else running a rock shox super deluxe rear shock on there 831 and having trouble setting it up, I tried every setting and it still felt dead and unresponsive so I fitted the Meg Neg air can and the difference is night and day , Now it holds up in berms , pumps through undulating terrain and jumps.
I can still play with the set up but it feels great with 2 bands in the negative chamber and 1 bottomless token in the positive full open on comp and 8 clicks from closed on the rebound, Small bump is good , mid stroke support is great and ive not bottomed it out but it does get full travel.
hope this helps some one if there struggling with set up of there deluxe or super deluxe
-
Any one else running a rock shox super deluxe rear shock on there 831 and having trouble setting it up, I tried every setting and it still felt dead and unresponsive so I fitted the Meg Neg air can and the difference is night and day , Now it holds up in berms , pumps through undulating terrain and jumps.
I can still play with the set up but it feels great with 2 bands in the negative chamber and 1 bottomless token in the positive full open on comp and 8 clicks from closed on the rebound, Small bump is good , mid stroke support is great and ive not bottomed it out but it does get full travel.
hope this helps some one if there struggling with set up of there deluxe or super deluxe
What’s the tune of your shock?
-
Hi Snacks, Forgot to say its a medium tune and I'm a 165 pounds and the shock is fitted with needle bearings instead of bushes
-
Hi! Anyone know if there’s a thread for people flexin their built AM831? Hoping to get an Idea on how I could build mine.
Thanks
-
Hi! Anyone know if there’s a thread for people flexin their built AM831? Hoping to get an Idea on how I could build mine.
Thanks
Their is 82 pages of built bikes in this thread...
-
Their is 82 pages of built bikes in this thread...
Not really. A quick look shows shipping didn't start until at least page 20. Didn't keep going to see when the first one was received but it would have to have been after that. Then there is the page after page with discussions of the problems with the frame when they started to be received.
-
Hi! Anyone know if there’s a thread for people flexin their built AM831? Hoping to get an Idea on how I could build mine.
Thanks
Snacks did his in the 27.5 forum - http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3414.0.html
This is my build - http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3445.0.html
I'll update it when I get around to painting the new rear triangle. Trails are either snow covered or in bad shape so it may be even longer before I get a ride in.
I don't think anyone else made dedicated build posts.
-
Exactly what I’m looking for, looking at the possible tyre, bb, headset and rear shock options. Thanks!
-
Exactly what I’m looking for, looking at the possible tyre, bb, headset and rear shock options. Thanks!
If your start reading on page 9 you will get your answers your looking for. I ended up using dpx 210x51 the body fits perfectly, I believe the frame does not accommodate a spring shock. 29x2.4 max tire width or you do start getting tire rub on the rear. You'll need a Crown race spacer pr your fork will rub the down tube. but, again all information if you read through this forum.
-
If your start reading on page 9 you will get your answers your looking for. I ended up using dpx 210x51 the body fits perfectly, I believe the frame does not accommodate a spring shock. 29x2.4 max tire width or you do start getting tire rub on the rear. You'll need a Crown race spacer pr your fork will rub the down tube. but, again all information if you read through this forum.
Thank you, I have been asking around about the tire width and thanks for the info about the spacer.
-
After around 50 trail miles I have had to park the 831 , The movement of the bearings in the seat stays has become excessive so for fear of making the bearing housing oval or enlarged I've stopped riding it until JJJ's bolts are ready or the replacement rear triangle turns up.
The few miles I have done so far have been very impressive , Once the rear shock was set up the rear gives that endless travel feeling and the ride is fantastic , Its definitely more at home at speed and descending , Really stable over jumps and high speed corners but not so good in slow twisty single track where it feels a bit big and clumsy . I have fitted the Meg neg air chamber to the Rockshox super delux shock that I'm using and whilst it transforms the ride performance on the back it has made pedal bob worse when climbing so for long climbs I use the lock out
Just thought I would leave a quik update on my impressions of the frame so far
-
After around 50 trail miles I have had to park the 831 , The movement of the bearings in the seat stays has become excessive so for fear of making the bearing housing oval or enlarged I've stopped riding it until JJJ's bolts are ready or the replacement rear triangle turns up.
The few miles I have done so far have been very impressive , Once the rear shock was set up the rear gives that endless travel feeling and the ride is fantastic , Its definitely more at home at speed and descending , Really stable over jumps and high speed corners but not so good in slow twisty single track where it feels a bit big and clumsy . I have fitted the Meg neg air chamber to the Rockshox super delux shock that I'm using and whilst it transforms the ride performance on the back it has made pedal bob worse when climbing so for long climbs I use the lock out
Just thought I would leave a quik update on my impressions of the frame so far
What are JJJ bolts? mind sending a link?
-
If you read back through the post all will be explained
-
Just about shifting performance: I have a 1x12 shimano with 51-10 cogs; the shifting performance is maybe average but not good and crispy; I`ve played with the "B" screw on derailleur but I can't align the marks: as stated in previous posts it looks like the derailleur hanger is wrong and no proper alignment is possible.
What is your experience?
-
Just about shifting performance: I have a 1x12 shimano with 51-10 cogs; the shifting performance is maybe average but not good and crispy; I`ve played with the "B" screw on derailleur but I can't align the marks: as stated in previous posts it looks like the derailleur hanger is wrong and no proper alignment is possible.
What is your experience?
Hey i have the same issue with my frame i ordered a couple of derrailer hangers to see if the issue gets fixed, seems to be a QA issue
-
Hey i have the same issue with my frame i ordered a couple of derrailer hangers to see if the issue gets fixed, seems to be a QA issue
Where have you found compatible different hangers? Can you provide a link?
Thanx
-
Still possible, hurry. Details here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1VllNnFhMycufNw3H4toELJPXWNQe-djAg7zDEYvuD0o/edit#gid=0
Hey if anyone picked up two pairs of the bolts and is looking to get rid of one please let me know, I missed getting on the list in time.
-
Hey if anyone picked up two pairs of the bolts and is looking to get rid of one please let me know, I missed getting on the list in time.
Its worth reaching out to JJJ, looks like there might be some stragglers not paying.
-
Its worth reaching out to JJJ, looks like there might be some stragglers not paying.
I reached out to JJJ first, he pointed me in the direction of group members that ordered multiple sets and may be willing to separate with one.
Thanks for Reply.
-
I got my bolts in the mail from JJJ a few days ago. I was using the 3D printer spacers before getting these. I was pretty happy with the spacers' improvements. I installed the bolts with washers, and gave the rear a shake. I can still get it to move, but it seems like even less than with the spacers.
Took it for an initial ride on Sunday. I'm very happy with them. I didn't really notice any rear end flex while riding. Not saying there is none now, but it wasn't noticeable to me. I am not the greatest rider and it was only one ride, but it so far so good. And I'm not a light rider at 265lbs.
I was more concerned about a creaking sound I have had since before winter. I'm pretty sure it's coming from the bottom bracket now. I'm still using the cheap provided one, but want to switch it out now. Will any BB92 bracket do? Or is there something special I need to look out for? Recommendations on a good one?
-
I got my bolts in the mail from JJJ a few days ago. I was using the 3D printer spacers before getting these. I was pretty happy with the spacers' improvements. I installed the bolts with washers, and gave the rear a shake. I can still get it to move, but it seems like even less than with the spacers.
Took it for an initial ride on Sunday. I'm very happy with them. I didn't really notice any rear end flex while riding. Not saying there is none now, but it wasn't noticeable to me. I am not the greatest rider and it was only one ride, but it so far so good. And I'm not a light rider at 265lbs.
I was more concerned about a creaking sound I have had since before winter. I'm pretty sure it's coming from the bottom bracket now. I'm still using the cheap provided one, but want to switch it out now. Will any BB92 bracket do? Or is there something special I need to look out for? Recommendations on a good one?
Wheels Mfg thread-together is the only way to go IMHO.
Some have tried the ZTTO version but it comes with terrible bearings so you have to replace them, which brings the cost almost up to the same as Wheels Mfg — particularly if you have to get a press specifically for the task.
-
That's the screw in press for one, right? Is it really better?
-
Just be advised that the screw together Press Fit bottom brackets have thicker flanges on them than normal press fit. In most cases this won't be an issue but I have had an issue where the thicker flanges, making the overall width of the bb more, meant that the spindle from the crankset didn't engage into the crank arm far enough for the endcap to be able to be used properly. I always felt uncomfortable with the spindle being short in the arm so ended up swapping out BB's because of it.
-
That's the screw in press for one, right? Is it really better?
Functionally it may not make much difference, but in terms of preventing creaking, yes absolutely.
As Emu points out though, you may need to change the thickness of spacers you use with certain cranks to account for the flanges, and some cranks may have some issues fitting at all, but I know riders with RF Cinch and SRAM direct mount cranks that haven’t had any problems with the Wheels Mfg version. Two of the riders I’m thinking of had severe creaking before swapping and zero noise after.
-
Its worth reaching out to JJJ, looks like there might be some stragglers not paying.
Everyone paid now!
-
Zero noise is what I'm going for.
-
Hi, anyone here able to push their seat tube down? I can't seem to push it beyond the top tube. See pic
-
Are you asking if we get the post inserted further?
Yes. Earlier in the thread many if us had this problem where it was catching on a lip in the seat tube. I had to file mine down. It took some work but I finally got it in all the way.
-
Are you asking if we get the post inserted further?
Yes. Earlier in the thread many if us had this problem where it was catching on a lip in the seat tube. I had to file mine down. It took some work but I finally got it in all the way.
Yes, i meant seat post. Gotcha thanks.
-
For those of you seeking for information on the bolt upgrade for the V1 rear triangle, there is a new dedicated thread started by StefanB:
http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3622.0.html
-
So it looks like it's not the bottom bracket causing the creaking sound. I redid the bolts at the upper part of the rear triangle. When I did I sat on the bike and heard the creak. When I did this the cranks were off the bike. So it looks like I'm totally wrong where the creak is coming from. I took a video of the creaking. Anyone know if we can post quick videos on here,?
-
Video:
-
Hopefully that video works. Anyone have any idea what could be causing this awful sound?
-
I could be way off here but looking at how much your wheel still moves in that rear triangle and the fact that sounds to me more like something under tension rubbing against cf I would be looking really closely at the dropouts to make sure everything is tight and also aligned where it should be. As I said, I could be way off and just going by experience with similar sounds on other bikes.
-
Hi All, has anyone tried installing longer shock? just found a used fox float x2 for a good price but it's 215mm eye to eye.
-
Hello.
Scourge, sounds like two little noises at once to me... I don't know. I'd say it could be some lateral play or space between the lower link and either the front or rear triangle. You may have a washer misplaced, missing or that they do not fill the space sufficiently. Disassemble and go checking joint by joint moving it energetically in all directions.
The joint of the lower link with the rear triangle must be in this order from the inside (where the wheel is housed) to the outside:
· Screw head - lower link with its bearing installed - washer - rear triangle; so on both sides.
At the joint with the front triangle make sure you have a washer on each side between the lower link and the frame, resting on the inner race of each bearing.
It could also be the junction of the front triangle with the upper link; here it must be placed from the outside to the inside in this order:
· Screw head - upper link with its bearing installed - shaped washer with the narrow part facing the bearing (this
narrow part rests on the inner race of the bearing) - front triangle; also the same on both sides.
Another option is that the bushings of the the shock are not the correct size and leave some space.
If everything is placed correctly but there is some play somewhere, you should add some thin washers that fill the space, but without being tight, so as not to block free movement or force anything.
I hope I explained well.
-
Thank you for the detailed response. I'm going to tackle it as soon as I can, but unfortunately I am starting five days on at work tomorrow.. it will be next week when I can really start searching for the source.
-
Although you are mentioning some bearings I don't ever recall seeing at some of the pivots.
-
Was nothing.
I think your problem may be similar to the one shown in this video:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ycd_FM7ztgM" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Maybe you've already seen it... but here's a video and an article with photos about the frame where you can see some details:
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/uVw6SkikQmY" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
https://alibuy.biz/2022/01/03/fm-fs831/
In the video I think they speak in Russian, and you may have no idea what they say, like me... but the article, which is in Ukrainian, you can translate it with your computer/smartphone.
I have my frame completely disassembled and still unpainted, I have stopped the project to wait for the JJJ screws (thank you by the way JJJ!, they are very good) or the new rear triangle, which I have decided to order and have also received a few days ago; if you or someone else wants a detailed photo of a specific piece, I can do it.
I'm a bit busy right now, but I hope to take it to paint soon and finally assemble everything. Greetings.
-
found this on facebook, I have always thought this brand design their own frames.
-
If anyone finds themselves with an extra set of JJJ bolts and are looking to get rid of them let me know, i could use a set. :)
-
Hello!
I finally finished building my 931 frame!
(Homemade color. I wouldn't do it again!)
This is the initial version of the rear triangle. The bearings are crimped in force. I have hope that the rigidity is given after a few kilometers.
The grommets supplied by Top-fire are not effective.
What do you use?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/NyLFK5z9ek4sCv6EA
-
So I finally got around to chasing my creaking sound today.
When I took the rear wheel off, I noticed the bolts on the rear linkage didn't look right. I'm talking about the very bottom ones closest to the rear axle. It looked like there was a tiny gap at the bolt on the drive side. With the rear wheel off, I could see it moving a bit when moving the rear triangle. I couldn't see that movement with the wheel on. I gotta say it was a pain finding an Allen key to fit in that little gap to adjust it. After three trips to the hardware store I got one that worked, but I think it's not the right size still (probably need a metric sized key). When I finally got an Allen key that worked, it was definitely loose. Really loose. Even the non-drive side was a bit loose. I tightened both as best I could with an Allen key that almost fit. I was pretty pumped to try it. Put the rear wheel back on and gave it a shot....the creaking was still there. Sonuva!
So I started looking at other things that could be loose. I figured I'd try the other pivot of the lower linkage. Not the one I just did, and not the one where the shock connects, but the one by the bottom bracket. When I found the right size key...son of a bitch it's a bit loose too. I tightened it and gave it a ride....silence! No creaking! I even it took it to a rocky area with some short steep uphills. No creaking. Perfectly quiet. I'll give it a real test on a full trail when I can (it's supposed to rain tomorrow), but I am so happy now. I was thinking I could have a crack somewhere in the carbon. I was wondering if I was going to have to buy the new rear triangle. I'm super pumped about the bike again. Between no creaking and JJJ's fix, I can't wait to ride this thing now.
Some of you guys were dead on with your assessments on what was causing the creaking. Thank you all for pointing me in the right direction.
One question, anyone know what torque settings this pivot should be adjusted to? I had my wrench set to 12 or 14, and I think I went a bit tighter than that. What should it be? Thanks again guys.
-
Finally done with my build, it's Tantan's FM831, thanks for the guidance everyone!
-
Beautiful machines you have, men!
Scourge: I'm so glad you found the problem and it was so easy and cheap to fix! I don't know what to tell you about the torque settings of that pivot, sorry.
If you see that some screws are loosening with the use of the bike, it occurs to me that maybe you can put a little threadlocker on the threads; But be careful! If you do, use the low strength type, and be very careful to add very very little, just a droplet. If you don't do this you may break the threads or screw heads when you try to remove them or it may be impossible to remove them.
Anyway I'm not sure if it's convenient or not to use the treadlocker in this case... maybe I'm giving bad advice, especially considering that the quality of the aluminum and the threads may not be NASA approved... Better consult a good bike mechanic who has experience on this, I don't want to be responsible for your beautiful bike being damaged :'(
-
Thanks again for all the supporting of our members on this forum.
Now the updated new triangle being sold a long time and no customer reflected any problem or question.
So anyone still interested the mold FS-AM831, feel free to contact us for the groupbuy C order.
Thanks
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
-
Black matte
-
I could be way off here but looking at how much your wheel still moves in that rear triangle and the fact that sounds to me more like something under tension rubbing against cf I would be looking really closely at the dropouts to make sure everything is tight and also aligned where it should be. As I said, I could be way off and just going by experience with similar sounds on other bikes.
Stupid question, did you upgrade your bolts to JJJ's revised ones?
-
Stupid question, did you upgrade your bolts to JJJ's revised ones?
Thrill, I think you have quoted the wrong comment. Thankfully I got impatient waiting and I didn't buy one of these frames as I got something else earlier.
-
FS-AM831 frame with Tideace Decals Feedback.
-
Finally done with my build, it's Tantan's FM831, thanks for the guidance everyone!
Can I dm you some questions?
-
Can I dm you some questions?
sure
-
Can I dm you some questions?
Any question, feel free to contact us.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
Thanks
-
I have now been riding the AM831 4-5 times on trails and it fells nice. I haven't jumped or pushed it hard downhills though. This weekend i rode with my son and we pedaled uphill on a road and he said, "Dad, it looks like you have a tail, its wiggling, I think you back wheel is loose".
I stopped and checked the wheel, everything was tightened but when I took the wheel in my hand I could flex the rear triangle a lot. I felt his rear triangle and it was stiff (LCFS911) and my wife's rear triangle was also stiff (LCFS713).
I haven't felt this when riding but it made me feel insecure, can I trust the bike if things go rough. I have done the " JJJ flexfix" but I can not imagine that it was even flexier before that. Could i have "flexfixed" it wrong or is the result not better than this.
Made a video of the flex.
https://youtu.be/d-aWmCOIXKE (https://youtu.be/d-aWmCOIXKE)
Hoping for helpfull feedback
-
It seems that you can not see the video?
If you search on Youtube you must find it. Search for: tideace am831 flex
Here are the links again
https://youtu.be/d-aWmCOIXKE (https://youtu.be/d-aWmCOIXKE)
https://youtu.be/d-aWmCOIXKE
-
I have now been riding the AM831 4-5 times on trails and it fells nice. I haven't jumped or pushed it hard downhills though. This weekend i rode with my son and we pedaled uphill on a road and he said, "Dad, it looks like you have a tail, its wiggling, I think you back wheel is loose".
I stopped and checked the wheel, everything was tightened but when I took the wheel in my hand I could flex the rear triangle a lot. I felt his rear triangle and it was stiff (LCFS911) and my wife's rear triangle was also stiff (LCFS713).
I haven't felt this when riding but it made me feel insecure, can I trust the bike if things go rough. I have done the " JJJ flexfix" but I can not imagine that it was even flexier before that. Could i have "flexfixed" it wrong or is the result not better than this.
Made a video of the flex.
https://youtu.be/d-aWmCOIXKE (https://youtu.be/d-aWmCOIXKE)
Hoping for helpfull feedback
So I have good news and bad news for you. The good news is that there is a fix and it makes the bike really stable and predictable. The bad news is that it is the updated rear triangle which is an additional $300USD.
-
Im not ready to spend 300 USB + shipping on this frame that I don´t really trust, will it be 100% good or just quite alright... . I would rather move everything over to a frame I trust. (LCFS947...) All you that have bought this frame and the the flexfix, does your frames flex this much? Is there a danger of riding with a frame this flexy?
-
Im not ready to spend 300 USB + shipping on this frame that I don´t really trust, will it be 100% good or just quite alright... . I would rather move everything over to a frame I trust. (LCFS947...) All you that have bought this frame and the the flexfix, does your frames flex this much? Is there a danger of riding with a frame this flexy?
I had a video from one of the first runs about the flex. People were blaming my wheels, camera angle, torque settings - everything but the frame until they got theirs. I couldn't ride it with confidence without the JJJ fix, it would stand me up in berms and dance all over feeling like you have a flat. With the new triangle it felt like a proper bike.
I think it was worth it but I'm not trying to sell it to you :) If you think the LCFS947 will give you more confidence definitely do that, it isn't worth compromising your riding on a frame you don't trust.
-
How would you compare the flex present with JJJ's flex fix on your bike to what you can see in StefanB's video?
-
How would you compare the flex present with JJJ's flex fix on your bike to what you can see in StefanB's video?
A little less, but similar. It got better with a few 0.2mm shims between the bolts and the outside bearings.
-
I have both the JJ fix and the mod rear triangle , The jj fix was a big improvement and I rode it for a good few miles with drops jumps and ruff descents and it was fine
I got a good discount on the moded rear triangle so I went for it and it is slightly stiffer but not noticeable when riding, I have done 650 miles on the frame now with bike park days and mixed local trails , The frame has proved to be strong and handles really well especially on ruff descents, apart from re tightening the pivot point bolts a couple of times I have had no issues with it
I have had a lot of full suspension frames from Intense, foes, scott, giant, trek, yeti and Vitus a lot of them had issues some big some small I've had warranty claims that have dragged out for a year and some that were deemed void and I had to pay for the replacement parts to fix it, so getting a modern carbon frame that builds into a great very capable bike for less than a $1000 is a good result even with a few teething problems
-
I have both the JJ fix and the mod rear triangle , The jj fix was a big improvement and I rode it for a good few miles with drops jumps and ruff descents and it was fine
I got a good discount on the moded rear triangle so I went for it and it is slightly stiffer but not noticeable when riding, I have done 650 miles on the frame now with bike park days and mixed local trails , The frame has proved to be strong and handles really well especially on ruff descents, apart from re tightening the pivot point bolts a couple of times I have had no issues with it
I have had a lot of full suspension frames from Intense, foes, scott, giant, trek, yeti and Vitus a lot of them had issues some big some small I've had warranty claims that have dragged out for a year and some that were deemed void and I had to pay for the replacement parts to fix it, so getting a modern carbon frame that builds into a great very capable bike for less than a $1000 is a good result even with a few teething problems
Solid feedback. I’m so back and forth on this but I really should just go for it. Sadly missed out on the JJJ that is my only big concern now.
-
Remedy, if you haven't ordered your frame yet, the new ones come with the revised rear triangle so it's no longer an issue for you.
-
It seems that you can not see the video?
If you search on Youtube you must find it. Search for: tideace am831 flex
Here are the links again
https://youtu.be/d-aWmCOIXKE (https://youtu.be/d-aWmCOIXKE)
https://youtu.be/d-aWmCOIXKE
I have just noticed that if I quote you, the links show up in the quote box before posting
I was going to ask if this is the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-aWmCOIXKE but I can see the links are the same.
Edit: but when I post I can't see them, nor mine. Must be a glitch in the matrix
-
Remedy, if you haven't ordered your frame yet, the new ones come with the revised rear triangle so it's no longer an issue for you.
I haven’t. Just trying to decide if I do it through Eddie or TanTan. Rather not Eddie due to his lack of help in the past. But it seems tantan is iffy on shipping.
-
I gotta be honest I think they're made in the same place.
-
I gotta be honest I think they're made in the same place.
I’m sure of that. It’s just who I want to deal with as a supplier at the end of the day.
-
The BXT version has all the mods including the fork clearance on the front triangle, I have not seen one its information I've gleaned from email and pictures
If I was buying again that's the one I would go fore
-
The BXT version has all the mods including the fork clearance on the front triangle, I have not seen one its information I've gleaned from email and pictures
If I was buying again that's the one I would go fore
Tried emailing them, no response. Probably going to go Tantan.
-
I've a custom AM831 and I've totalized more than 300 km on it, including a couple of bike parks. So it's "only" 300 km but the bike has been well tested.
About the flex issue: the problem was there, even if in my frame probably the bearings weren't pushed out of the recesses so it wasn't that bad; after I made the JJJ brilliant fix the rear is much more stiff, still I don't know if a brand bike is more stiff; I think after the mod the bike is ok.
Generally I love the bike, I assembled it trying to keep it light, it's around 12.6 Kg, a record for a 160/150 mm dual suspension; it pedals uphill very well, also I found very useful the DT swiss rear shock that has three positions: open, pedal and locked; the middle position is fantastic to use uphill.
Downhill it's great, it's very fast on the flow, fiddly to jump as probably all of this modern geometry bikes, they are big like aircraft carriers ;D.
Problems: to me press fit bottom bracket is a very,very bad idea, especially on a carbon frame;said this the original bottom bracket was almost locked, bearing destroyed from water; anyway I managed to push it out and replace with a shimano XT. I also have quite a lot of pedal strikes this is my fault as I bought 175 mm cranks, 165 , max 170 would be ideal.
The biggest headache came from manitou mezzer fork that wasn't plush on small bumps, now it's 90% solved after I replaced the damper oil with the lightest I could find.
The bike is fun but I don't trust the frame 100%: all carbon parts (even brand ones) can fail, the knockoff probably have a higher failure rate; anybody that see any crack on the frame please report.
I don't have any squeaks from suspension so far.
-
...
Problems: to me press fit bottom bracket is a very,very bad idea, especially on a carbon frame;said this the original bottom bracket was almost locked, bearing destroyed from water; anyway I managed to push it out and replace with a shimano XT. ...
I have had imstalled this shell in all the PF Frames:
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/33021799492.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.5.71fc4f0dXR655N&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21EUR%21%E2%82%AC%2038%2C95%21%E2%82%AC%2019%2C08%21%21%21%21%21%400b0a187916665974943816642ee814%2167185730081%21sh
before Installing replace the bearins into inox Enduro bearings 243775-2RSO1.
This works this year for a realy lot of km and much more than 50.000 meter down in rough terrain.
-
I have a Kacktus press fit installed with a little medium lock tight applied and its still going strong , I have the Zitto one for when the Kacktus bb fails but so far 600 plus miles and still going
-
This works this year for a realy lot of km and much more than 50.000 meter down in rough terrain.
Did you ride so much on 831? Any other problem to report?Do you have the JJJ mod?
For sure after shimano XT I will go with ZTTO thread in bottom bracket.
-
Did you ride so much on 831? Any other problem to report?Do you have the JJJ mod?
For sure after shimano XT I will go with ZTTO thread in bottom bracket.
I ride a FS830 (i think i'm one of a few, riding this frame), but its the same bottom braked. And i am Superhappy with the geo and the stability. But i mod the link bearings.
This ist my build up thread:
http://chinertown.com/index.php/topic,3566.0.html
I'm not sure that Shimano fit's, because i ride a SRAM Crank dimension.
-
Next spring I'll be adding my girlfriend to the mix of AM831 riders. Hopefully with the JJJ fix and her ~55 kilo size it'll be "good enough". Not sure how it'll go when I eventually get to painting mine up - I'm north of 100 kilos and I ride hard and fast, so I assume the JJJ fix will not be enough.
For now, enjoy some preview shots of her bike now that it's in it's cure/bake phase in the paint room. I think this one came out OK, but I got a bit more orange peel in the clear than I wanted - I was pushing the temperatures when doing this as late in the season as it is. For heating/money reasons, my paint room is really only viable April-September, unfortunately. Fortunately my clear build is quite a bit thicker than standard so I can paint correct it without too much issue sometime over the winter once it's 100% cured. It also does have a few more specs in the paint job than I would normally like, but I just finished another paint project immediately prior to this one that I nailed almost perfectly, and did a sub-par job cleaning between the two. I have been assured the rider does not mind.
Naming your knockoff bike after another brand or something? Nah. Naming your knockoff brand after your cat? Indeed.
Please note, the font on the down tube and cat prints on the top tube were rider's choice.
For myself, I'm thinking of doing a candy blue to candy green fade (this means you could see the carbon underneath) with metallic silver writing - with a different font, of course.
-
I'm north of 100 kilos and I ride hard and fast, so I assume the JJJ fix will not be enough.
I can confirm, it will not be enough. The only fix is the updated rear triangle.
-
It'll be wall art then, I'm not putting any more money into the frame at this point. Lesson learned.
-
I am 83 Kg, ok not a fast rider, but the frame after the mod looks stiff enough; about possible future instant catastrophic failures I don't know of course. Anyway the rear triangle is stressed in a "dangerous" way only when sliding side-ward or riding on a berm, quite rare situation, in fact even a big jump or drop should produce an axial and quite symmetric force.
Said that after all what has been written here and the not so cheap rear triangle fix from haideli (300$) and the not so great support if I need to buy a frame today I would avoid this one.
-
I am 83 Kg, ok not a fast rider, but the frame after the mod looks stiff enough; about possible future instant catastrophic failures I don't know of course. Anyway the rear triangle is stressed in a "dangerous" way only when sliding side-ward or riding on a berm, quite rare situation, in fact even a big jump or drop should produce an axial and quite symmetric force.
Said that after all what has been written here and the not so cheap rear triangle fix from haideli (300$) and the not so great support if I need to buy a frame today I would avoid this one.
New frames come with the upgraded triangle so that isn't an issue. As early adopters we had to pay for the upgrade after it came out which wasn't ideal but whatever, still cheaper than a replacement frame and thankfully it worked out.
I'm 95kg kitted up and the original config was sketchy and disorienting but I don't think it would fail. I would fail by having it stand the bike straight up in a high berm :) Shims or the JJJ fix made it much more predictable but just isn't enough if you ride rough terrain and push hard as a heavier rider.
With the new triangle it actually works exactly the way you would expect. It feels really similar to a megatower, not as poppy as a hightower, but it may have just been my burlier components. I liked it a lot on local flow trails but not so much on rough terrain.
I would also skip the AM831, but not because it isn't a good frame it is because it isn't a good frame for me. Something like the geometry of a Yeti SB-130 or 150, less bb drop and generally better balance.
-
The flex issue has been discussed a lot, in your build thread too; just to synthesize: the original (non modded) frame flexed a lot due to bearings moving out of their recesses, creating a dangerous situation; the JJJ modded frame flexes only due to the real flex of rear triangle. The updated haideli rear triangle keeps the bearings in place with a solution very similar to JJJ's, but is also beefier (and heavier) then more stiff.
The original frame was defective and dangerous; the modded frame has its own flex , if this is too much for the rider weight and riding style is a personal evaluation.
The AM831 (and even the original santa cruz version) aren't anyway heavy duty enduro frames.
-
When I first rode my 831 I found the rear suspension to have a bit of a dead or sluggish feeling , It would blow through the initial travel and just work in the mid and end stroke, I tried raising the air pressure which helped but it was harsh and I wasn't getting full travel , Looking on the Santa Cruz forums It seems they were having the same problems , Im running the same shock the Rock Shox super delux with a mid tune, A lot of them were having good results by fitting the Rock Shox Meg Neg so I fitted one to my shock and what a difference It now has a lively feeling , great mid range support, holds up well in high speed berms and g outs , popy and playfull , It takes a bit of time to set up and its not really suitable for heavy riders because of the increase in air pressure needed , Well worth doing if your running the delux or super delux shocks
-
I tried looking but can these fit a coil. Found a great deal on a Super Deluxe coil.
-
I tried looking but can these fit a coil. Found a great deal on a Super Deluxe coil.
IIRC, no. The shock tunnel is too tight. Some piggyback shocks may also not fit if they are typical length (though sideways piggybacks like the DVO Topaz Gen 3 should fit fine).
-
IIRC, no. The shock tunnel is too tight. Some piggyback shocks may also not fit if they are typical length (though sideways piggybacks like the DVO Topaz Gen 3 should fit fine).
Yeah doesn’t seem like anyone has tested it. Maybe I should get that topaz I’ve been eye balling
Do we have a list of compatible shocks compiled?
-
Do I seriously need to disassemble this frame back to the two triangles to install a shock? Am I an idiot? What in the ever loving fuck is going on here? The frame was already a nightmare to put together to begin with...
-
just undo the bottom pivot bolts and move the rear triangle up to access the rear shock bolt
-
I was thinking that's what I had to do, kind of absurd though because that part of the frame was a serious pain in the ass to get together as the tolerances are not good (and the bolts are somewhat hard to reach on their own). It took me like 20 minutes to get everything lined up there in the first place. Wish I'd just fired the shock in then. Never had a frame where it was that much of a pain to remove a shock - and ive probably pulled a couple hundred shocks off bikes over the last decade or so.
-
Can any one of the AM831 owners confirm the shock mount sizes for the frame? I came across different information online 30x8F-22x8Rear and vice versa. So is the 30x8 needed front (frame) or rear (lower link)?
Also I have a Rockshox shock laying around but it's bearing mount designed for SC Hightower. Would it be possible to use on this frame?
TIA.
-
I used the Fox m8x22.86 with crush washer for the rear and Rockshox m8x30 for the front.
The bearing mount from the SC Hightower/Bronson will not fit. I looked at having the lower link milled to allow the bearing mount to fit. I didn’t feel comfortable with the remaining aluminum having the structural integrity to handle much abuse. I chose to change the damper body in that shock to the standard eyelet version and it has worked well.
-
For celebrating the Chrismas and New Year.
All of Tideace Frame would have a good discount for our member on forum.
Any interesting or need, feel free to contact us.
Eddy@haidelibicycle.com
www.haidelibikes.com
Many thanks.
Eddy
-
Hi, anyone know where to get the linkage bolt behind the chainring?
-
It seems like a really cool frame but not quite ready for prime time. I don't like the fact that the rear triangle is flexy and you got to order it special and I don't like the idea you can't use a coil or a lot piggyback shocks because they don't fit. Just right there, I'm bothered
-
It seems like a really cool frame but not quite ready for prime time. I don't like the fact that the rear triangle is flexy and you got to order it special and I don't like the idea you can't use a coil or a lot piggyback shocks because they don't fit. Just right there, I'm bothered
You only had to order it separately if you were in on the first group buy which was the first lot of frames that were manufactured and got into the hands of the public. Frames ordered now come with the revised rear triangle. That doesn't change the other issues you mentioned nor does it excuse the poor customer service that left the beta testers having to buy a replacement rear triangle in the first place.
-
Thats a huge bummer for the early buyers. I never go into buying one of these frames thinking this will be a great experience. Rarely do these companies know what customer service is. The crazy thing is these frames aren't that good of a deal anymore. On Ebay this frame starts at $1400. On AliExpress they're $800+ with $300 shipping.
For that amount l can start looking for name brand
-
Groupbuy price still available.
Please feel free to contact us.
Many thanks.
-
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/onni3W9z2y8
-
https://youtube.com/shorts/onni3W9z2y8?feature=share
-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKKuhchnU7A